Current Plots Discussion: Actually Today's Episode

[Apprentice79]

50 minutes ago, rcc said:

It may not be popular here but I prefer KM as Abigail.

The only good thing that I will say about KM as Abigail is that she does crazy eyes really well and she comes off very menacing and unhinged. It is why I never bought her as a heroine.  Also, the actress seemed to have gotten typecast in some of her lifetime movies.  I am not throwing any shade, it is just an observation. 

[rcc]

42 minutes ago, Apprentice79 said:

The only good thing that I will say about KM as Abigail is that she does crazy eyes really well and she comes off very menacing and unhinged. It is why I never bought her as a heroine.  Also, the actress seemed to have gotten typecast in some of her lifetime movies.  I am not throwing any shade, it is just an observation. 

I agree about the eyes. She is the better Abigail for the storyline. 

[Apprentice79]

I am loving Evil Gabi and Camilla is killing it.  I loved her audacity today, she has no shame, she is truly enjoying the world of hurt that she is giving back to Abigail. I loved how she used Kate to get Rafe off her scent, it was marvelous. I am really having a problem with Kate. Gabi is family and I remember all of the evil things she did to Bo and Hope to help Billie in her quest to win Bo.  She even told Billie to used Zack's death to insinuate herself into Bo's life. Kate, get over yourself, since when do you have a conscious you have not had one since 1998.  Her concern for Chad annoys the hell out of me. 

I have no sympathy for Abby. She will get everything back and then some after all is said and done. I will enjoy her misery while it lasts.

I hate the Leo story. The only bright side to this story is that Wilson are not murderers. Salem has enough murderers.

I like Hope with Ted. They look good together, but, I know that Ted will be use to prop Rafe.

The Stefan/Ben alliance is promising, but, I wish that they were both evil, determined to make the people of Salem pay for treating them like dirt. The show wants to redeem them and I think that it is a mistake.  I think that Ben is working with Chad to take down Stefan.  

[Silver Raven]

3 hours ago, nilyank said:

I don't know why she would be acting like that. She has only been there 2 days and she knows that Gabi framed her and she did not have a mental breakdown. When  she calmed down, she shoukd have let the doctors evaluate her to prove that you she is mentally competent. Instead ahe covers her her head and face like a dummy and tosses her food tray towards the orderly. 

But this is Abigail, who expects everyone to wait on her hand and foot and give in to all of her demands.

[Chick2Chic]

Abby isn't supposed to be crazy at this point, right? She's supposedly mentally stable now but people think she is crazy cause she's being framed. I don't think her being bug eyed and looking wild fits with the story now but obviously mileage varies.  Oh to have been a fly on the wall when KM returned and BF had to then suck it up. I did notice she ignored BF while he shaded her in twitter but she also baited fans and was snotty - hey there Abi cause "people grow" - so I don't care for her much from her online presence or acting. It is considerate she came in to finish the story and collect a check when MM quit but it's not like KM is all that busy outside Days. 

Anyways, I've enjoyed the past few eps for the most part except I am tired of Hope's obsession with Ben. I get why she feels the way she does and I don't fault or even disagree with her but the way she is so myopically focused on Ben and talking about him 24/7 is tedious to sit through. Her dialogue has be repetitive for months now about that damn fire & Ben and it's boring. I like Cin, so they have been working for me. I thought their first kiss was sweet.  I am fine if Ben flirts with his darker tendencies, even when promoting himself to Stefan to get a money so he can try to rebuild his life.. Characters shouldn't be all black or all white nor pretend to be.

Somewhat speaking of that, I will be glad when Days stops separating the Black characters and integrates them into the other stories. I don't care for the segregation of stories. Also, Elani still don't have any chemistry so them being pushed by TPTB as a pairing to watch isn't working for me. I haven't seen anything in the writing or acting that Lani is actually interested in Eli. It doesn't help their story is on once every two weeks but when it is on, it's not making me interested in watching more of them together. 

[Silver Raven]

Whom were Gabi and Rafe "in front of" at Thanksgiving?  There are no family members left.  Hope's family was at Julie's diner.

Why does the bed in Abby's room look like a coffin?

Leo should have told WilSon that Kate was sleeping with Ted.

"Kate would never lie to you." Bwahahahahahaha

Kate Mansi went out playing Crazy Abby and comes back playing Crazy Abby.  :D

[Forget me]

Why is Gabby dressed like it is summer, in a sleeveless sundress....and Kate has on a fur?  Also everyone else at Horton Square was dressed like winter!

[Fen Tiger]

Ben is the most compelling character at the moment. I am looking forward to his redemption arc. I also believe his dad set the fire. Ciara only bearable when she is with him. 

Hope makes me think Joey Tribbiani got his soap acting lessons from her. The writing for her is just dreadful, but her acting choices ain't helping.

Kate Mansi is just blah. 

I want to like Will, especially since he is Sami and Lucas' son, but he just stands around in dull clothing looking dazed all the time. 

Also loving evil Gabi, but wondering why she was wearing a sleeveless dress outdoors in late November. Some of the clothing they put her in is truly puzzling. Like that weird cropped top candy striper thing that she wore for a meeting. With her boss. About a company with "chic" in the title.

I like Tyler Christopher so am dreading him finding out he is not the father. Hope he becomes the Palmer Cortland of Salem. I think they believe Victor already fills that role, but he is not central to enough story.

Sarah is truly ghastly. Shrill and completely unlikable. 

Reading back I'm wondering why I'm still watching this. Lazy writing.  I am intrigued by Abby deciding impersonating Gabby is quickest way to manipulate Stefan into springing her. Wonder how long she will play  happy family with him once she gets out and her hands on her baby? 

[Silver Raven]

1 hour ago, Fen Tiger said:

Also loving evil Gabi, but wondering why she was wearing a sleeveless dress outdoors in late November.

She was in the pub.  Maybe she hung her coat up at the door?  :)

[Guest]

On 11/16/2018 at 9:22 AM, Petunia13 said:

Because as I mentioned in my post that actress doesn't always rise to the occasion with that material. This was noted by many viewers as well as soap press and bloggers and perhaps why she also did some improv and sketch comedy after being let go from B&B. 

We are also talking about fictional characters and respective actors talents and range, not discussing those traits in the abstract applied to people in general ☺️

 

On 11/15/2018 at 11:54 PM, Kitty Redstone said:

Yes, this.  Kate and Sami are exactly who I'd point to as well.  Others include Gabi, Nicole, sometimes even Jennifer and Julie, Will and Eric on occasion, definitely Victor.  I haven't seen much of it in Chloe lately but it's there.  She briefly flashed it at Bonnie at the police station, heh.  But not Brady, who's just a douche, or Abigail, who's useless, or Hope, who's just a complete mess.  As a concept, edge is in the eye of the beholder and you know it when you see it.

LG was sickly sweet as Caroline Spencer at first.  Then Caroline hit her head and had a bit of a personality transformation.  She became more confident, not quite as nice, definitely scheming, but still relatable and root-worthy.  She reverted back to sweet and boring when they stuck her with Ridge and it was downhill from there.  It wasn't her fault, really - she played what they gave her and as a result she took on an unfortunate affect and a number of tics.  I've always liked LG and am glad to have her back on my screen.  She can be very good with the right material.  Hopefully Ron and TIIC aren't looking to make her Salem's next Melanie Jonas.

 

On 11/15/2018 at 10:28 PM, Petunia13 said:

I can't muster too much sympathy for Paul since he's played sexual and emotional ping pong between 2 halfs of a couple, which is not only gross but destined for doom, that said Will is in the wrong. 

An edge is what Sami and Kate have. What @Kitty Redstone may have meant is LG who plays Sarah is better when she has some scrap and snarkiness or scheming to play vs being a nice or passive girl. I think she's nice in real life so when she's not given anything different to do it comes off bland or recitation. 

Ciara is also flat. It seems like each Ciara actress best quality is they're pretty and have great hair. A newbie tuning in this month for the first time would assume she's actually Rafe and Hope's child given how dull she can be ? Unforch, since Bo had enough personality to fill a room and youngster Ciara was wild and captivating. 

Its such a tv trope to have a dumped and/or cheated on woman get drunk with a stranger then tell a happy couple a depressed warning scene. Very rom com and sitcom-y. 

Sad ending of all the sad broken up people and song droning. Brady was alone and pensive you know what that means he'll be with a woman in a couple days. He can't stand being single or going without sex. 

Hi Sonny's chest hair ? 

Lucas and Chloe are so cute together. 

No character I wanted to tell shut the fuck up to unlike Bold &a Beautiful and Y&R so ??

I beg to differ. Linsey had played a snarky and scheming type character in a movie called "Fatal Fashion" but the character flopped. However she also played a good girl in a movie called "Assignment", a sci-fic show called "Surface" and they worked (Note: both were her earlier projects prior to B&B). Obviously, she's very capable of playing a good person.  My guess is both of you might be based your impression on her only from B&B which is fine. The problem with the show is that it's not the best example for character development and growth. Taking Caroline as an example, I certainly doubt dropping her cloth off in a desperate attempt to seduce Rick or being a snob was  "root-worthy" or "relatable". In fact, she was very immature during that period.  Both Caroline and Ridge had grown as character after they got together.  As for Linsey's departure, the writers run out of options for her character because they wanted a Brook/Ridge reunion.  Her fate was sealed after the breakup of Caroline/Ridge.  LG did sketch comedy, improv and worked as a yoga instructor after departure. After all, she needed the money to support her child (Lifetime didn't pay her enough). Anyway, I am gonna stop here because I don't want to bore you with too much details unrelatable to Days.   

Edited December 1, 2018 by Guest

[peachmangosteen]

1 hour ago, Silver Raven said:

She was in the pub.  Maybe she hung her coat up at the door?  :)

She wasn't at the pub; she was at that outdoor restaurant that Claire and Tripp work at.

[Rowan]

Well, KM is back. She’s a competent enough actress, and I’m glad that she agreed to return to wrap this up. I just don’t think I would have been down for a new actress stepping into the role at this point. I did find myself wondering how MM would’ve approached those scenes as I do I prefer her Abigail, but I’m hanging in there just to watch Abby rake Chad’s gullible ass over the coals when all is eventually revealed. 

Gah! I can’t wait until everybody finds out the truth. I need Gabi to fall hard. Scraped up hands and busted up knees hard. 

As for the Chad and Abby scenes, knowing there was backstage tension between the actors probably colors my perception of their performance, but I felt Billy came across as a little more closed off than usual. Even when Chad and Abby were at odds, he always seemed gentler and more vulnerable with Chabby 2.0. But I did like that when Abby began to tearfully plead with him to get her out he began backing up and putting physical distance between them like he knew he might give in if he let himself get too close. So, maybe it was just that Chad has his defenses up and not necessarily Billy. 

Honestly, the writing for this show doesn’t inspire anything in me beyond scorn mostly, but some of the actors, well, they tend to rise above the arbitrary material they’re given. That’s enough for me for now, I guess. 

[Silver Raven]

1 hour ago, peachmangosteen said:

She wasn't at the pub; she was at that outdoor restaurant that Claire and Tripp work at.

Horton Square is an indoor shopping mall.

[Kitty Redstone]

I'm behind for the whole week and am trying to decide whether it's worth it to binge watch.  Knowing that KM is back isn't providing any incentive at all.

 

3 hours ago, Autumnview said:

I beg to differ. Linsey had played a snarky and scheming type character in a movie called "Fatal Fashion" but the character flopped. However she also played a good girl in a movie called "Assignment", a sci-fic show called "Surface" and they worked (Note: both were her earlier projects prior to B&B). Obviously, she's very capable of playing a good person.  My guess is both of you might be based your impression on her only from B&B which is fine. The problem with the show is that it's not the best example for character development and growth. Taking Caroline as an example, I certainly doubt dropping her cloth off in a desperate attempt to seduce Rick or being a snob was  "root-worthy" or "relatable". In fact, she was very immature during that period.  Both Caroline and Ridge had grown as character after they got together.  As for Linsey's departure, the writers run out of options for her character because they wanted a Brook/Ridge reunion.  Her fate was sealed after the breakup of Caroline/Ridge.  LG did sketch comedy, improv and worked as a yoga instructor after departure. After all, she needed the money to support her child (Lifetime didn't pay her enough). Anyway, I am gonna stop here because I don't want to bore you with too much details unrelatable to Days.   

Neither Petunia nor I argued that LG wasn't capable of playing a good person, but that she was better and more interesting playing someone with an edge.  There's no need to guess about the nature of my impressions. I used standard observational skills in addition to personal preference and came up with an opinion. 

[superdeluxe]

5 hours ago, Chick2Chic said:

Anyways, I've enjoyed the past few eps for the most part except I am tired of Hope's obsession with Ben. I get why she feels the way she does and I don't fault or even disagree with her but the way she is so myopically focused on Ben and talking about him 24/7 is tedious to sit through. Her dialogue has be repetitive for months now about that damn fire & Ben and it's boring. I like Cin, so they have been working for me. I thought their first kiss was sweet.  I am fine if Ben flirts with his darker tendencies, even when promoting himself to Stefan to get a money so he can try to rebuild his life.. Characters shouldn't be all black or all white nor pretend to be.

I think this can describe all of the storylines going on right now.  The entire show is tedious to sit through.

[Petunia13]

I have to concur story's were boring this week. At least Chad and Ted were eye candy 😍

Ben "you should hire me since I almost was able to kill you but didn't" well gee when you put it like that.

writers "let's make Ben rootable he's been redeemed, he's taping into his sweet side"

also, writers "let's remind everyone of his sadistic killing and manipulative nature" 

[Frozendiva]

I am also chiming in about Gabi's summer dress while Kate was wearing her faux fur and everyone else is dressed for late fall/early winter. Brrrrrrr. Perhaps Gabi has her vehicle in an underground parking garage.

The original test results are still in the hospital computer? Seriously? No one has thought of looking at them?

Gabi was right when she spoke to Kate about the Salem PD. It was Rafe that she was talking to.... Gabi you will have a hard fall when everything hits the fan.

I do wonder if Ben is also working for Chad and trying to take down Stefan. What better way to keep your enemy closer than to move in with him?

I don't know if they really can redeem Ben - maybe some long lost twin needs to show up and take responsibility for the murders. The show is treading an uncomfortable line.

Hope, already emotionally cheating with Ted whilst married to Rafe. Yes, you do have a right to be concerned for your daughter's safety and that her love interest can snap at any time. The obsession is making the character even more unlikeable. Lots of people serve their prison time and then try to rehabilitate themselves. You have zero evidence that he set the fire (probably Ciara accidentally did so) and now using your soon to be new love interest to set up Ben is wrong.

Leo, stop wasting time on boring Sonny. You can do better, really. Will and Sonny deserve each other. Really.

[enchantingmonkey]

Maybe Abigail decided to continue playing up the crazy after she attacked Gabi to make the "emergence" of Gabby more believable.  With the way the show likes to throw logic out the window, it's difficult to know if things were thought out or thrown in for dramatic effect.    

I didn't know that Horton Square was an indoor mall but that does explain a few things, like Gabi's sleeveless dress.  

With the daily references to Ben being a serial killer, I'm just not sold on the Show wanting him to appear redeemed.  It seems like they want it to be more complicated than that, and it's just that the Ciara/Ben fans don't seem to care.  I find it to be one of the most interesting things about the show right now, the discussions here included.  If only RSW were capable of a little more depth.  

Leo cares about the money and the lifestyle.  I don't think he gives a damn about Sonny, which actually helps the story to work for me.  And Freddie Smith is better at playing Sonny's reprehension and disgust for Leo than he is at convincing me he's in love with Will.  

[boes]

So, nobody at the Kiriakis Mansion - not Maggie, not Victor, not Justin or Adrienne or ANYBODY have noticed that Leo is living there now?  Uh huh.....

And Kate Mansi is back.  The blanket over the head was a nice touch, too bad it can't be a constant look for her.

There's no reason Show couldn't have made Abby's isolation cell more personalized for the character with a giant hamster wheel for her to exercise in, a bowl of kibble and one of those water bottles you hang on the side of the cage.  That would fit the character.

Abigail seems to be losing her touch, too.  All that time with Chad and not ONE slap??  Oh, come on, Show!

Please please PLEASE, Show, let KM put on the Gabi wig!  We need a good laugh.

[MsTree]

53 minutes ago, boes said:

Please please PLEASE, Show, let KM put on the Gabi wig!  We need a good laugh.

And how would we tell the difference between Gabby & Abby?  KM's hair is almost the same color!

[Petunia13]

Wait a minute! I didn't think Horton Square was an indoor mall...

I thought it was an outdoor walking mall ala Old Orchard and I feel like years past I've seen snow but maybe I'm imagining it. I could swear I remember a scene w Sami sitting on a bench bullshitting with someone with snow puffs behind. And scenes with Nicole and Brady in the mall bench and table areas while snow fell. 

If Abby is sane and integrated and being gas lit why is she so violent when they clearly said eat and cooperate or you'll be restrained? And when she said she was Gaby was she manipulating Stefan? Cuz when she violent, withdrawn and curt it makes it hard to see a distinction. It's not mysterious storytelling as much as disorganized. 

I already mentioned Chad and Ted looked gorgeous this week. And I love Ciara's hair. 

I don't think Leo is still in his feelings or lust for Sonny- I sure as hell wouldn't be, psssh! He's  not ugly by any means, but no Zaddy.  

Rafe = Dumb

[howmanywords]

3 hours ago, enchantingmonkey said:

With the daily references to Ben being a serial killer, I'm just not sold on the Show wanting him to appear redeemed.  It seems like they want it to be more complicated than that, and it's just that the Ciara/Ben fans don't seem to care.  I find it to be one of the most interesting things about the show right now, the discussions here included.

Right, I get what they are going for with them trying to add layers to Ben.   DAYS has trended on twitter twice in the last 2 weeks so the other day, I think Tuesday I decided to click the hashtag and see what was getting the most attention. CIN of course. But the disturbing thing? Its way past Ben being reformed even calling his veiled threats to people 'hot'' and sexy' and propping him up as if hes the perfect man because of how he is with Ciara. You're right - many of them don't care he killed people. As I've said, I like them as a couple so far and I've enjoyed the we writing so far but nope I am not forgetting the murders even without the references. I can't forget them.  Of course if they ever decide to have him go off his meds, snap and kill Rafe I'm fine with that heh..

[nilyank]

6 hours ago, boes said:

So, nobody at the Kiriakis Mansion - not Maggie, not Victor, not Justin or Adrienne or ANYBODY have noticed that Leo is living there now?  Uh huh.....

And Kate Mansi is back.  The blanket over the head was a nice touch, too bad it can't be a constant look for her.

There's no reason Show couldn't have made Abby's isolation cell more personalized for the character with a giant hamster wheel for her to exercise in, a bowl of kibble and one of those water bottles you hang on the side of the cage.  That would fit the character.

Abigail seems to be losing her touch, too.  All that time with Chad and not ONE slap??  Oh, come on, Show!

Please please PLEASE, Show, let KM put on the Gabi wig!  We need a good laugh.

 

Well....

Spoiler

Link to pictures on NBC website for next week:

 

https://www.nbc.com/days-of-our-lives/photos/season-54/week-of-12318/3102820

Edited December 1, 2018 by nilyank

[Sidney]

If I didn't know Gabi was setting up Abby, than I would believe she has completely went off the rails. I get that she's angry, but she's acting like a lunatic. No wonder no one is believing her.

Kate has every reason to be nervous. Gabi is being reckless and careless.

So, I guess Stefan, Abby and Ben will all be living under the same roof. Ridiculous. Ron is getting a kick out of these outrageous stories.

[Lastwaltz]

8 hours ago, enchantingmonkey said:

Maybe Abigail decided to continue playing up the crazy after she attacked Gabi to make the "emergence" of Gabby more believable.  With the way the show likes to throw logic out the window, it's difficult to know if things were thought out or thrown in for dramatic effect.    

I didn't know that Horton Square was an indoor mall but that does explain a few things, like Gabi's sleeveless dress.  

With the daily references to Ben being a serial killer, I'm just not sold on the Show wanting him to appear redeemed.  It seems like they want it to be more complicated than that, and it's just that the Ciara/Ben fans don't seem to care.  I find it to be one of the most interesting things about the show right now, the discussions here included.  If only RSW were capable of a little more depth.   

Interesting! I agree this week's Ben episodes have definitely started to add some shade and gray areas, which will make for better story. If I can look past the romantic pairing and more at how Ben is behaving, I may be less dissatisfied with the whole thing. 

 

7 hours ago, MsTree said:

And how would we tell the difference between Gabby & Abby?  KM's hair is almost the same color!

I thought the same thing! What little tick or trait will Kate Mansi's Gabby have that we can distinguish from just Abigail? Kate actually as a tough task ahead of her. And @howmanywords -- those fans are batshit crazy and scary, yikes. 

Abigail has every right to be angry as hell and frustrated -- not to mention, she's just days post-partum, so hormones galore. I think it's entirely reasonable for her to throw a tray at the wall, lol, but I know my opinions about Abigail aren't widely shared, so enough said : )

[boes]

7 hours ago, MsTree said:

And how would we tell the difference between Gabby & Abby?  KM's hair is almost the same color!

It would be the crazy in her come-hither eyes.  But there's gotta be a wig involved too!

[Guest]

11 hours ago, Kitty Redstone said:

I'm behind for the whole week and am trying to decide whether it's worth it to binge watch.  Knowing that KM is back isn't providing any incentive at all.

 

Neither Petunia nor I argued that LG wasn't capable of playing a good person, but that she was better and more interesting playing someone with an edge.  There's no need to guess about the nature of my impressions. I used standard observational skills in addition to personal preference and came up with an opinion. 

The point I am trying to make is watching more of actors work helps to see things in a wider perspective. Since B&B is not paragon of excellent characterization and writing, my conclusion wasn't solely drawn from this experience, and hence why I brought up LG's other works as examples. 

Also, I think just because someone is a good guy or girl is by no mean they couldn't have an edge; it was an old stereotype after all.  The "good" and "noble" side are often painted as independent entities separated from the "bad" and "selfish" side.  Instead of finding the right balance, the soap writers of today tend to go to the extremes in term of characterization thanks to their one dimensional mind. They pretend not to notice the "good" and "bad" are parts of who we are and what made characters compelling. Great characters from the good ol' days like Drake's Rojohn, Marcy Walker's Eden and A Martinez's Cruz from Santa Barbara were the heroes/heroine but they were written as human beings not cartoon characters. Same with characters like Robin Mattson's Gina, Lane Davies's Mason and Justin Deas's Keith who were much more complex characters than just being "bad guys".  It's really a tragedy that kind of writing had been lost on soap a while ago.     

Edited December 1, 2018 by Guest

[TigerLynx]

So Paul is gone, and Will and Sonny don't get even two seconds before they are on the merry-go-round again.  I realize soaps need the action, drama, and angst, but Ron always goes overboard.

I detest Slappy in any form, and I really wish Sami had been helping Gabi.  Of course, if Sami had been allowed to really be Sami years ago, Slappy would have been toast.

[Apprentice79]

11 hours ago, Frozendiva said:

I don't know if they really can redeem Ben - maybe some long lost twin needs to show up and take responsibility for the murders. The show is treading an uncomfortable line.

That is Ron at his worst, he had an amnesiac Marty fall for her rapist Todd on One Life To Live. The fans were incensed and he doubled down.  

[peachmangosteen]

13 hours ago, Silver Raven said:

Horton Square is an indoor shopping mall.

Wow, that makes that set (and the wardrobe) even worse than I thought lol. Although I, like @Petunia13, really remember scenes there that make it seem clearly outside, so I don't know.

12 hours ago, Petunia13 said:

writers "let's make Ben rootable he's been redeemed, he's taping into his sweet side"

also, writers "let's remind everyone of his sadistic killing and manipulative nature" 

LOL right. They really are trying to have it both ways, man. 

11 hours ago, enchantingmonkey said:

I didn't know that Horton Square was an indoor mall but that does explain a few things, like Gabi's sleeveless dress.  

I still find it stupid they had Gabi is a sleeveless summer dress at the end of November in Illinois, even if it really is an indoor mall. Especially since everyone else had on jackets/coats. Maybe it's to prove how evil she is or something lol.

Edited December 1, 2018 by peachmangosteen

[Apprentice79]

2 hours ago, Autumnview said:

The point I am trying to make is watching more of actors work helps to see things in a wider perspective. Since B&B is not paragon of excellent characterization and writing, my conclusion wasn't solely drawn from this experience, and hence why I brought up LG's other works as examples. 

Also, I think just because someone is a good guy or girl is by no mean they couldn't have an edge; it was an old stereotype after all.  The "good" and "noble" side are often painted as independent entities separated from the "bad" and "selfish" side.  Instead of finding the right balance, the soap writers of today tend to go to the extremes in term of characterization thanks to their one dimensional mind. They pretend not to notice the "good" and "bad" are parts of who we are and what made characters compelling. Great characters from the good ol' days like Drake's Rojohn, Marcy Walker's Eden and A Martinez's Cruz from Santa Barbara were the heroes/heroine but they were written as human beings not cartoon characters. Same with characters like Robin Mattson's Gina, Lane Davies's Mason and Justin Deas's Keith who were much more complex characters than just being "bad guys".  It's really a tragedy that kind of writing had been lost on soap a while ago.     

 

I love your post and I feel that the show took a turn for the worst when they had the villains and villainesses drive stories instead of the heroes and the heroines.  I miss the days when the good guys won after they overcame the obstacles that were put in their lives by the villains. The villains got their comeuppance. I loved Stefano when he was cunning and devious. His evil schemes always had a way of coming back to haunt him. His vendetta against Roman by unleashing Andre cost him his daughter Renee.  During the 90's JER changed all of that and good characters were thrown under the bus so that the Dimeras could become a resident family.  Evil characters win and always persevere while the good characters are written as dumb stupid and self-righteous. Instead of flawed heroes like Bo, Shane, Rojohn, Roman and Mike Horton trying to be good people despite their demons. You have serial killers like Ben and Andre being written as romantic leads.  Jack was bad, but, his redemption was a slow process and the writers took great pains in not tying his redemption to Jennifer.  It was all about Jack trying to be a decent person, his self-loathing, his remorse, making progress, he would make mistakes along the way and regress. Jennifer was  quietly in the background believing in him when he had no faith in himself.  Jennifer saw something in Jack and held on.. Jack's reaction to not being invited to Jo's 50th birthday party and what he did about that was vintage Jack.  Nobody was demonized for Jack like Hope is being for Ben.  I know that Cin is popular, but, I will never accept Bo's little girl with a monster.   

Edited December 1, 2018 by Apprentice79

[peachmangosteen]

6 minutes ago, Apprentice79 said:

Evil characters win and always persevere while the good characters are written as dumb stupid and self-righteous. 

It's been like that on GH for years, too. I don't watch the CBS soaps, but I have a feeling it's probably similar there too and that it's unfortunately just how soaps are now. I hate it.

[TigerLynx]

Along with the evil characters, there is also the fact, that the good characters, often times more than not, aren't good either.  The choice ends up being between evil, and self-righteous idiot who thinks they are good, but aren't, evil vs. evil, or someone who used to be good now being an idiot to make the SL work, or because someone once did something bad, now it's okay for anyone to ruin their life.  Evil, dumb, and self-righteous 24/7 is not fun to watch.

And chances are if there is a good SL going like Sami/Kate/Gabi tossing Nick in the river, or Sami/Kate taking down Stefano and EJ, it will be ruined.

[Apprentice79]

1 hour ago, peachmangosteen said:

It's been like that on GH for years, too. I don't watch the CBS soaps, but I have a feeling it's probably similar there too and that it's unfortunately just how soaps are now. I hate it.

Carly a loathsome character is a heroine. A woman who taunted her rival's HIV status on General Hospital.  According to the writers, we are supposed to cheer and laugh when she makes fun of somebody's illness because Robin is a self- righteous, boring good girl. Whereas, Carly is strong, brave and tells it like it is. Being a vile bitch is not strong in my opinion.  

Edited December 1, 2018 by Apprentice79

[boes]

1 hour ago, Apprentice79 said:

Carly a loathsome character is a heroine. A woman who taunted her rival's HIV status on General Hospital.  According to the writers, we are supposed to cheer and laugh when she makes fun of somebody's illness because Robin is a self- righteous, boring good girl. Whereas, Carly is strong, brave and tells it like it is. Being a vile bitch is not strong in my opinion.  

Well said.  And we've got Phyllis on Y+R, horrible as it gets, eating the show, being the smartest person in town and the woman every man has to have.

This crap characterization is everywhere on Daytime.

[katie9918]

8 hours ago, TigerLynx said:

So Paul is gone, and Will and Sonny don't get even two seconds before they are on the merry-go-round again.  I realize soaps need the action, drama, and angst, but Ron always goes overboard.

I detest Slappy in any form, and I really wish Sami had been helping Gabi.  Of course, if Sami had been allowed to really be Sami years ago, Slappy would have been toast.

Then again, it would have been over frickin EJ, so no one would have looked anything but pathetic. I mean, more so than both looked fighting over frickin rapist EJ anyway, so MMV.

 

Really hate him and if he’s back, hopefully it’s to die all over again in a manner that leaves no one to mourn his predatory, blackmailing ass. 

 

Both Sami and Abby deserved better than to be pitted against each other for EJ’s rank ass.

Edited December 2, 2018 by katie9918

[Chick2Chic]

20 hours ago, enchantingmonkey said:

It seems like they want it to be more complicated than that, and it's just that the Ciara/Ben fans don't seem to care.

As a Ben/Ciara fan, please don't speak for me. No fandom is a monolith.  

I am enjoying the story so far for Ben & Ciara. I can happily anticipate the upcoming romance for them and still see and want the individual character struggles and attempts at growth/redemption as things move forward.

It doesn't change my opinion of liking them whether or not others like them. It also doesn't make my opinion lesser because of that. Not everyone will like the same things. which is par for the course with soaps & having many characters onscreen to like, love, hate, and love to hate. 

[Apprentice79]

13 hours ago, Chick2Chic said:

As a Ben/Ciara fan, please don't speak for me. No fandom is a monolith.  

I am enjoying the story so far for Ben & Ciara. I can happily anticipate the upcoming romance for them and still see and want the individual character struggles and attempts at growth/redemption as things move forward.

It doesn't change my opinion of liking them whether or not others like them. It also doesn't make my opinion lesser because of that. Not everyone will like the same things. which is par for the course with soaps & having many characters onscreen to like, love, hate, and love to hate. 

I don't think that anybody is saying you cannot like Ben/Ciara. I do think that people should be able to voice their reasons for not liking them.  There are ships for every couple on the show. I have encountered some Steve/Ava fans who hated Kayla and said that she was boring. I have known some Dannifer fans who did not understand why so many  of us were so against the couple and did not understand our love for Jack. I corresponded with this person and sent some links to some Jack/Jennifer clips and she immediately abandoned Dannifer and became a hard core Jack/Jennifer fan..lol  I think that we should be able to agree to disagree respectfully.. How boring would this board be if we all loved the same couples, characters, storylines. e.t.c. There would be nothing to snark about..

Edited December 2, 2018 by Apprentice79

[howmanywords]

I dont think the original post meant the Ben/Ciara fans here who seem reasonable but rather the ones that are on social media who many (not all by any means) absolutely are a little on the um, loud fanatical side and don't seem to care about Ben murdering people in his past.

Edited December 2, 2018 by howmanywords

[IWantCandy71]

On ‎11‎/‎21‎/‎2018 at 3:02 PM, A.J. said:

And it's highly upsetting me. Nicole is not cold in her grave yet and here they are pairing up Eric with Sarah.  Did all of Sarah's feelings for Rex just disappear?  And why no scene of Eric really grieving for Nicole.  Why no funeral, memorial or even a reel of Eric and Nicole's best moments for a character who was on the show some 20 plus years. 

And here they are again with family members constantly dating/having sex with a relative's ex.  Rex is Eric's brother for Pete's sake.  We just went through this with Eric and Brady.  Does anyone in Salem ever have a problem with this common activity?  I refuse to watch and support this disrespectful and messy union of Eric and Maggie's daughter.

 

Honestly, it doesn't surprise me a bit about Eric. He was engaged to Jennifer and less than 24 hours later or whatever, was sexing up Nicole. He thought nothing of Jennifer's feelings. He thought nothing of Brady's feelings when he was sneaking around with Nicole. Not enough to stop, anyway. And he won't think enough of Rex's feelings to stay away from Sarah if he decides he wants her.

It's who Eric is, it's who he's always been. He's always  had a slightly "entitled" self righteous vibe about him. Even worse than his Aunt Hope in that respect. Like, he'll do what he wants to do and everyone can just get over it. I like him when he's nowhere near a relationship. I liked him best as a priest and wish Days would have done the unusual thing and kept him as one. I like him in family scenes. I like him with Brady when they aren't fighting, I like him with Sami, etc. I absolutely wish he'd fall head first into a wood chipper when he's paired with someone. Unbearable doesn't scratch the surface.

[SueB]

On 11/30/2018 at 5:42 PM, Forget me said:

Why is Gabby dressed like it is summer, in a sleeveless sundress....and Kate has on a fur?  Also everyone else at Horton Square was dressed like winter!

THIS!  Took me right out of the scene. 

[DisneyBoy]

To reacquaint myself with Mansi's style of acting, I watched a fan-edited selection of her "best" scenes recently, and it served as a great refreher on just how dark the necktie storyline really was. There was no joy there, except for seeing Abigail's crappy decision-making.

Long story short, I just can't give Ben another shot as a character. He just played the serial killer thing to the hilt (or as much as this actor can play that kind of thing to the hilt.)

Ciara is doomed.

And I will always feel badly that Chad hitched his wagon to such a deranged horse. She really enjoyed setting Ben on fire, probably more than he did her. PTSD my ass.

We need one Ciara/Abby scene on the subject of Ben.

Has Sami left again? I'm watching very sporadically...

[peachmangosteen]

1 hour ago, DisneyBoy said:

Has Sami left again? 

Yea. She took EJ to some facility. I wasn't even watching when EJ was around but I will never not be annoyed by how obsessed she is with him lol. 

Edited December 3, 2018 by peachmangosteen

[howmanywords]

2 hours ago, DisneyBoy said:

To reacquaint myself with Mansi's style of acting, I watched a fan-edited selection of her "best" scenes recently, and it served as a great refreher on just how dark the necktie storyline really was. There was no joy there, except for seeing Abigail's crappy decision-making.

 

How could a story about multiple people being murdered be anything but dark? If its one thing I wouldnt look for in a serial killer storyline its joy.

[DisneyBoy]

Well I didn't see all of the "Marlena kills everyone" storyline, but Reilly put humor in it from what I've heard. Alice died via her donuts or something?

[Apprentice79]

2 hours ago, DisneyBoy said:

Well I didn't see all of the "Marlena kills everyone" storyline, but Reilly put humor in it from what I've heard. Alice died via her donuts or something?

There was nothing humorous about those deaths. Cassie's death was ghastly and Alice's death turned my stomach and the viewers revolted to the point that Ken Corday brought them all back. 

[Apprentice79]

I loved Lauren's performance today as Kate. She gives Kate so much layers. Will continues to be her weak spot.  Kate like Sami does not care about what the world thinks of them, but they do care about what Will thinks of them. The thought of hurting Will and disappointing him will turn these hard women into a blubbering mess.   It always irritated me that the show did not do something substantial with Kate, Sami and Lucas after finding out that Ben killed Will. They would have killed him without a doubt. I remember the heinous things that they did to each other regarding Will's custody.  

[howmanywords]

Just to echo what @Apprentice79 said, I did watch that ridiculous storyline from beginning to end and there was nothing funny or 'joyful' about those deaths even if the way they were executed were suppose to give off that vibe. James Reilly was twisted. Maybe some people found the story humorous but the large majority voiced how disgusted they were. Mrs. Horton's death by choking on her donuts till this day remains one of the most horrible and controversial deaths. Back then DAYS didn't have a 6 month behind taping schedule so they were allowed to backtrack the whole thing and say none of the victims were dead in the end (IIRC the revision of history turned out to be Andre brainwashed Marlena and the deaths were fake.

[Chick2Chic]

On 12/2/2018 at 10:19 AM, Apprentice79 said:

I don't think that anybody is saying you cannot like Ben/Ciara. I do think that people should be able to voice their reasons for not liking them. 

That wasn't my point. My point was the generalization of fans of a ship all thinking the same way [to then be dismissed]. Saying "I don't like Cin" is one thing and saying "this is what all Ben/Ciara fans think or don't seem to care about [paraphrased]" to then be dismissive is another thing. That was my point. The former is fine. The latter is what I was addressing and taking issue with. 

I don't care if other people do or don't like Ben/Ciara. To each his or her own. That said, I enjoyed the clip of a scenes today with them. 

LOL at Will being shocked Kate would betray her family even though she been doing it for 2 decades now. 

Edited December 3, 2018 by Chick2Chic
added something

[Chick2Chic]

8 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

Yea. She took EJ to some facility. I wasn't even watching when EJ was around but I will never not be annoyed by how obsessed she is with him lol. 

Interesting. Sami didn't strike me as anymore obsessed than other pairings where one half is running around town talking about the other half. Considering other pairings run around talking about the other constantly and especially in storylines where one is missing or in danger, I didn't see it as anymore of an aberration than when other characters do it. Then again, if Corday hadn't been petty about AS and JS quitting the show, then he wouldn't have had to correct things later with this story. Then again, if Sami was obsessed with EJ, that means she doesn't want anyone else (which I already figured but I found it intriguing that the show wanted to hammer that point home very hard).