S02.E07: Deliverance

[phoenics]

I shouldn't have watched the eppy. I barely watched as it is - but it was extremely disappointing. What stood out for me is that withe the heavy focus on Katrina/Ichy/Crane family drama, it was suddenly BLATANTLY apparent that the POC characters have been marginalized and turned into tokens.

As a woman of color, this makes me angry - though I'm not surprised. Abbie is now officially nothing more than a Crane sidekick - looks like that NYT article actually had it right - we just didn't know it yet. Irving had what - .3 seconds of airtime? I find it extremely interesting that he didn't even livetweet during the episode. And Lyndie Greenwood is probably rethinking all of her blind "Katia is great!" nonsense while she pushed for more Katrina for her "friend and roommate". How's that working for you Lyndie? Katrina and Hawley have taken YOUR screentime. Yeah - be down for the "team" if you want - the writers will always have THEIR backs - not yours.

This show is working so hard to pull in the white male demographic that they are alienating their core fanbase. I guess they don't really want it?

Yes. I'm bitter. Clearly the show has been nailed by network interference and it's destroyed the magic of the show. For some reason, the suits think the Cranes carry this show and that's what people want. Yet - since S1, when the show focused heavily on CFD, the ratings went down!

Get a damn clue, writers! And stop marginalizing the POC on this show.

[Jipijapa]

 

it was suddenly BLATANTLY apparent that the POC characters have been marginalized and turned into tokens.

 

I'm not a woman of color and I can't help but agree.  I just don't understand it, unless it has something to do with the regime change over at Fox (Kevin Reilly out).  This show got nothing but delighted praise last season for its fantastically diverse cast.  There was nothing strained or selfconscious about it.  I am really disgusted with the way Jenny and Frank have been marginalized this season.  What were they thinking???

 

I thought this season was going to be about Ichabod, Abbie, her sister Jenny, and the stalwart Frank Irving and his family, with an assist from Katrina and her witch powers, and dealing with the evil-but-tormented Henry/Jeremy.  I thought we would see more extended 1700s flashbacks of Ichabod's life as a soldier/spy in the Revolution/War Against All Evil.  I thought we might even see a bit of time travel where Abbie might have ended up in the past, dealing with those realities for a woman of color.  

 

I DIDN'T think that...

 

-We'd see 2 minutes of Jenny and/or Frank every other week

-We'd have a boring blonde white guy shoved down our throats as some sort of romantic partner for Jenny and/or Abbie 

-That it would be ALL Katrina, ALL the time

-That it would just be Monster of the Week every week with no sense of an ongoing mythology

-That we'd actually get to see John Noble being manipulative, not just taking orders from Moloch for 5 minutes at the end of every episode

 

So incredibly disappointing.  Sleepy Hollow needs new showrunners, STAT.  This is the problem with Orci and Kurtzman - they get shows started OK, but they suck as showrunners.  Fringe went from being a noisy mess in Season 1 to a great show in Season 2 and beyond, once Kurtzman and Orci got out of the way and they brought in different showrunners.  However, Fringe did this after 13 episodes or so... and Sleepy Hollow is running out of time.

[Iboatedhere]

When I'm actively rooting for one character who is on the side of evil to kill another character who is supposed to be on the side of good, there's a problem.

 

Just let Henry/Jeremy be evil, Crane.

[tv echo]

I still love Sleepy Hollow but this episode really spotlighted the worst elements of the show.

 

This show works best when it is primarily a two-person show, focusing on Ichabod and Abbie as they fight evil, with dashes of horror, lots of humor, and sharp intelligent work by the two of them -- with occasional support from Jenny, Irving, Hawley, etc.  I would not enjoy the show as much without Ichabod or without Abbie.  The voting scene is a prime example of something that works.

 

This show works least when it focuses on the overwrought emotionality of Katrina and the supposedly great love affair between her and Ichabod.  Then the show flounders in its soap opera seriousness.

 

This episode was bad because it was all about saving Katrina yet again - and also used the overworked trope about a demon baby.  Also, I know we're supposed to root for the parents still having faith that their son Jeremy can be saved, but John Noble's Horseman of War is so evil that my reaction was to tell  them to just give it up.  Serial killers also had parents. 

 

TPTB made a mistake bringing Katrina out of Purgatory (where we only had brief scenes with her last season) because now they have the problem of what to do with her.  Is she going to just hang out in the cabin while Ichabod and Abbie go on their missions?  She seems to have no role.  It would have been better to have her die in this episode.  But most likely TPTB have some season-long story arc involving the parents trying to redeem their evil son, but Katrina just seems an unnecessary character.

 

One thing this episode did address, although obliquely, is that Ichabod has no money and is dependent on Abbie to support him financially.  I can't believe that he would be fine with that, so he really needs to get a job - maybe get paid by the SHPD as a consultant.

[HunterHunted]

This episode highlights the worst aspects of season 2: Henry's scheme of the week to ruin his parents' lives, Katrina suffering, and Ichabod running around trying to stop Henry and end Katrina's suffering. This show has fantastic chemistry in its main cast (meaning Abbie, Ichabod, Jenny, and Frank) and a great myth arc, but has no idea about what to do with it. I'm hoping that last night's development with Katrina means that she'll be sidelined for the back half of the season. I fear it won't because they'll be going to her for magical solutions to everything.

[DkNNy79]

Didn't really enjoy this episode.  It did not keep me captivated at all.  The Cranes are annoying in their quest to save Jeremy.  Abbie has a lot of patience, because I think I would've blown up at them and walked away. 

 

The Cranes mushy movements made me want to gag.

 

Next week looks to be interesting.  I'll take Hawley over Katrina any day.

[Sarah D. Bunting]

 

Also, I know we're supposed to root for the parents still having faith that their son Jeremy can be saved, but John Noble's Horseman of War is so evil that my reaction was to tell  them to just give it up.  Serial killers also had parents.

 

Well put. I like John Noble and he's doing the best he can with the character, but the character IS A FOOKIN' BAD GUY, writers. It doesn't make Crane/Katrina unsympathetic to cut ties with a "child" who's gone totally evil and whom they barely knew in the second place. It makes them unsympathetic to continue trying with the guy, at Abbie's/humanity's expense.

 

I still love the show, but the stalling is becoming a problem. Why isn't Irving actively trying to get his soul back from Henry? Why is Jenny only in the episode to 1) steal something or 2) make eyes at Hawley? GET ON WITH IT, GUYS.

[marceline]

I'm calling it: network interference. When shows change tenor and focus as quickly as this one has that's usually the reason. We're not at the point were this would be about contract negotiations so unless there's a health issue or other commitment that has both Lyndie Greenwood and Orlando Jones sidelined then I can't really see the reason for screwing with a winning formula other than tone deaf management jumping in. I'm getting the same vibe I got from the show Dollhouse where it seemed like one kind of show then suddenly it was another. Joss Whedon later explained how the network didn't like the concept and made him "correct" it.

 

Anybody who's followed my posts knows how I feel about shipping, especially the shipping of Abbie/Crane so this doesn't come from that place but I've finally accepted that Katrina doesn't work. I don't blame the actress. Katia seems like a perfectly nice person and I can't really point to her performance. The character doesn't work. I believe that in some way she is necessary. I believe that it's very important for Ichabod to have someone who ties him to his era and shares his perspective but something is just off with Katrina. I don't mind Crane having a love interest but this one isn't working. She's a damsel in a post-Buffy world. Give the woman some real agency or cut her loose. Turn this chick into Willow Rosenberg (a real powerful redhead witch) or bring on a whole new busty white woman through a portal and start fresh. Can we have Mary Welles back? Yes, she was psycho but she handled her shit. I actually think Katrina could be fixed but not while all these other parts of the show are unraveling.

 

I will say that I kind of enjoyed watching Abbie be a cop without Crane on her heels. I think it's important to remember that Abbie was a smart, capable professional before Crane came along. I'm continuing to hold on to hope that the focus will swing back to the Mills family in the back half of the season.

[Tippi Blevins]

If Moloch had been born, would he have been a baby demon? Because that might have been kind of cute. Cranky little baby demon, with Abe and Henry as his dads. 

 

Was there any particular reason that Katrina was chosen as the mother? Was it because of her witchy womb? Was it just to get her out of the way because she was having a bad influence on Abe?

[pcta]

What I felt most watching the final scene in the church was - what a waste. The music was grand, swelling and emotive. The visuals with the window and crystal, the light and colors were compelling. But, it didn't work 'cause I didn't care about the fate of "our heroine"

[Enero]

I still love Sleepy Hollow but...

I'd say my love has faded to like. There's too much Katrina whom they don't know what to do with. The Horseman's story has gotten even more ridiculous with him sitting around the house all day with Katrina. Hawley is just a replacement for Jenny. Irving is virtually non-existent and Henry is not only insufferable but overexposed. The changes they've made this season have significantly diminished the charm that the first season had.

This show works best when it is primarily a two-person show, focusing on Ichabod and Abbie as they fight evil, with dashes of horror, lots of humor, and sharp intelligent work by the two of them -- with occasional support from Jenny, Irving, Hawley, etc. I would not enjoy the show as much without Ichabod or without Abbie. The voting scene is a prime example of something that works.

Agreed. The voting scene was gold, and unfortunately the best part of the episode. I have completely lost patience with Katrina and Ichabod's illogical belief that somewhere inside their evil son lives an innocent scared little boy who just wants his mommy and daddy. As been stated even serial killers had parents and were innocent as children, but that doesn't mean they can be redeemed.

This episode was bad because it was all about saving Katrina yet again...

Yep. And also because Abbie was yet again off trying to save the world and putting her life at risk while Ichabod remained behind at the house consoling Katrina. If Ichabod couldn't help with the initial investigation this would've been a perfect opportunity to get Jenny involved. Abbie certainly could've used the back up when they were debating about Henry.

One thing this episode did address, although obliquely, is that Ichabod has no money and is dependent on Abbie to support him financially. I can't believe that he would be fine with that, so he really needs to get a job - maybe get paid by the SHPD as a consultant.

I never really thought about this until it was addressed in last night's episode. And absolutely agree that with Ichabod's history, the timeframe that comes from, there is no way he'd be okay with a woman taking care of him. He would insist on finding someway to make money so that he could earn his keep. Edited November 4, 2014 by Enero

[kimberella]

This show is working so hard to pull in the white male demographic that they are alienating their core fanbase. I guess they don't really want it?

No, they don't. Promoting shows with "diversity" is the bait to start off shows and attract a wide range of viewers that get the word out, but after a few episodes it's time for the switch and aim for the audience they really covet. It happens every time, that a show is run by mostly white people. You can count on Shonda for diverse shows, but always be suspicious of shows, where the producers in charge are the same old same old, because they'll give us exactly that.

 

So finally Sleepy Hollow has become the new Twisted. I didn't want it to be true, but here it is.

 

It was hard seeing Abbie become The Help for the Cranes, for Katrina during labor, just like her ancestor did, before a Crane killed her. Also paying this greasy moocher's bills, without even getting a thank you in return. I suppose the writers think that's the right role for a black woman.

 

Crane keeps throwing her under the bus again and again for his useless wife and his evil son, the man who tried to kill Abbie a couple of episodes ago, but he doesn't care. All of this after told her they should put each other above anyone else and after making all kinds of oaths. And yet Abbie doesn't get a voice. She keeps tolerating him without calling him out on his many betrayals.

 

But it's okay, because there was a fistbump at the end and we all know that's the only thing that matters in this show, when it comes to what they consider realistic profound friendships. All is good and nothing really mattered, because no matter what Crane does, no matter what the Cranes do, they always remain afloat. Like shit.

[DearEvette]

One thing I realized with this episode is how they are seemingly declawing their villains. 

 

Last season Headless was a silent, killing machine.  He was beheading people left & right.  He had his guns and was blowing shit up.  He was menacing.  Now with Abraham he is a whining lovelorn sap. 

 

And with Henry, Ichabod and Katrina keep insisting he is just their son,  who can be converted by the power of love.

 

These are two Horsemen of the Frickin' Apocalypse!   They have given their soul over to Evil.  Voluntarily.  Don't make them into misunderstood men who just need to come to terms with their betrayal.

 

I want to see them weakened and lose some battles, but I want our heros to do it, not their own navel gazing.  I want them at the top of their Evil game when Abbie & Ichabod (and Jenny and Frank and...ok, Hawley you can come to )  come at them.  I don;t want them pitiful, I want them scary.

Edited November 4, 2014 by DearEvette

[shanndee]

Well, it seems clear we are all on the same page. I really wish someone from the network had a job that included reading message boards. If they could see how much we hate what they are doing to a show that used to be special, maybe it could be saved. And just for the record network, I am not a person of colour, yet the reason I loved this show was the wonderful interaction among the Mills sisters, Crane, and Irving.

 

I miss that interaction and I want it back. Get rid of Hawley, and reduce Katrina's role. If you insist on giving her screen time make her fully evil. At least she'd be a tiny bit interesting that way.

 

I miss my show. It used to be one of the only series I actually watched live. Now I will dvr it and perhaps watch it if I am in the mood. Eliminate what was special about the show that attracted the viewers in the first place! Bring in more white people! Real smart network (and writers)! So disappointing.

[johntfs]

Yes, this is Sleepy Hollow.  Katrina gets knocked up with a demon-baby so Crane and Abbie have to give her an aurorabortion.

[Mrs OldManBalls]

I did like that Crane was basically caught between his two loves and had to do his best to placate them both.  It may seem like he chose Katrina but I noticed that he never fully agreed with what she was saying.  I also liked that we ended on Abbie and Ichabod as we should.

I kind of felt bad for him (just a little). Trying make two women happy? When one is pregnant, one has a gun and both are pissed at each other, and none too pleased with him? Tough room. 

I felt for Katrina a little too. An entire pregnancy in 10-12 hours? 

 

Remember when ol' Headless used to be scary?

I miss that. Moloch probably does too. 

 

And 5 seconds of Irving is not enough.  Why aren't they busy saving his soul instead of "As The Cranes Turn" soap opera stuff.  It was a Fantastic Four vs horsemen with automatic weapons joy ride last season.  Now the writers have totally dropped the ball with Jenny and Irving left with nothing to do.

 

 

There must be something he could be doing to assist Team Witness from inside the hospital! Research or something. 

 

Also, unlike many on this board, I don't have an appreciation for John Noble. I guess others know him and like him from another show which I apparently haven't seen. I think the character is not very interesting and Noble's acting is not anything special.

Other than knowing he was in one of those Hobbity movies, I'm unfamiliar with him, but that guy has some serious voice! I bet he tells a great, if slightly menacing bedtime story. 

 

Yes. I'm bitter. Clearly the show has been nailed by network interference and it's destroyed the magic of the show. For some reason, the suits think the Cranes carry this show and that's what people want. Yet - since S1, when the show focused heavily on CFD, the ratings went down!

I can imagine it's very frustrating for the show runner to have the network interference mucking up the story they are trying to tell. 

 

One thing this episode did address, although obliquely, is that Ichabod has no money and is dependent on Abbie to support him financially.  I can't believe that he would be fine with that, so he really needs to get a job - maybe get paid by the SHPD as a consultant.

 

Being supported by a woman strikes me as something that would bother Ichabod. He has ID now (thanks Hawley!) so he should use that to get himself a job. That would open up a whole bunch of ranting from him! ( A job at a hipster coffee house? A museum? Community college?) 

 

If Moloch had been born, would he have been a baby demon? Because that might have been kind of cute. Cranky little baby demon, with Abe and Henry as his dads. 

 

Was there any particular reason that Katrina was chosen as the mother? Was it because of her witchy womb? Was it just to get her out of the way because she was having a bad influence on Abe?

I was wondering that too. Would he be a baby? Who would take care of him? Henry? Would he grow at an accelerated rate, so they could get evil shit done a.s.a.p.? 

 

Katrina was probably used at the vessel as both a punishment to her and to stick it it Ichabod. 

 

I was embarrassed how happy I was that Ichabod learned CPR. 

[DeLurker]

I was not expecting to even like this ep because it was Katrina-centric, but they gave me a lot to dislike.  Katrina was exactly the void I thought she would be, so my expectations were low in that regard, but Ick's paternal commitment to his son Death is hard to swallow.  And if the show expends more time on the Save D̶̷e̶̷a̶̷t̶̷h̶̷  H̶e̶n̶r̶y̶  Jeremy storyline, it really will be committing suicide.

 

My thoughts on Jenny's absence and the nanosecond appearance of Irving have already been stated countless times by others plus the global missing of S1 BAMF Headless.  I selfishly want John Cho's show to tank and him to come back and be the Undead Andy Brooks who shows up every couple of episodes.  I miss Undead Andy.

 

Also, unlike many on this board, I don't have an appreciation for John Noble.

I've got limited John Noble exposure so no pre-existing regard for him to speak of.  Sometimes I find his portrayal of Henry to be really compelling and other times it just seem overdone.  I think I like Henry better with less dialogue, because when Noble pulls off a scene like he did a few episodes ago (where he ended up sitting legs akimbo on the floor after Moloch called him a bad boy) he is able to communicate so much with his body language or the intensity of a facial expression.

[allyw]

No, they don't. Promoting shows with "diversity" is the bait to start off shows and attract a wide range of viewers that get the word out, but after a few episodes it's time for the switch and aim for the audience they really covet. It happens every time, that a show is run by mostly white people. You can count on Shonda for diverse shows, but always be suspicious of shows, where the producers in charge are the same old same old, because they'll give us exactly that.

 

So finally Sleepy Hollow has become the new Twisted. I didn't want it to be true, but here it is.

 

It was hard seeing Abbie become The Help for the Cranes, for Katrina during labor, just like her ancestor did, before a Crane killed her. Also paying this greasy moocher's bills, without even getting a thank you in return. I suppose the writers think that's the right role for a black woman.

 

Crane keeps throwing her under the bus again and again for his useless wife and his evil son, the man who tried to kill Abbie a couple of episodes ago, but he doesn't care. All of this after told her they should put each other above anyone else and after making all kinds of oaths. And yet Abbie doesn't get a voice. She keeps tolerating him without calling him out on his many betrayals.

 

But it's okay, because there was a fistbump at the end and we all know that's the only thing that matters in this show, when it comes to what they consider realistic profound friendships. All is good and nothing really mattered, because no matter what Crane does, no matter what the Cranes do, they always remain afloat. Like shit.

I'm mostly a lurker and I've read many of your posts and thought that you were overreacting but I have to say this post is spot on. This season definitely feels like Twisted 1B and Abbie was basically only there to assist the Cranes. The show has gotten whiter and dumber. And if this is really network interference, it doesn't make sense since Sleepy Hollow was pretty much the only bright spot for Fox last year. 

Edited November 4, 2014 by allyw

[marceline]

 

I was embarrassed how happy I was that Ichabod learned CPR.

 

That was a nice bit of character continuity. It makes perfect sense to me that one of the first things Crane did after what happened in the library was learn CPR. The show has done a good job showing that Crane is very serious about protecting those he cares about. I would've liked it more if they'd shown him doing the counting they teach you in CPR so that we would know he just took the class but it was probably considered more important to show him freaking out over the loss of Katrina.

[venusnv80]

I wasn't happy he knew CPR, especially not to save Katrina. She should have died before they returned with the piece of glass.

And to whomever mentioned Twisted above...that should be a lesson to some showrunners, fans will destroy a show if they do the bait and switch.

[Iamsweetdee]

I'm calling it: network interference. When shows change tenor and focus as quickly as this one has that's usually the reason. We're not at the point were this would be about contract negotiations so unless there's a health issue or other commitment that has both Lyndie Greenwood and Orlando Jones sidelined then I can't really see the reason for screwing with a winning formula other than tone deaf management jumping in. I'm getting the same vibe I got from the show Dollhouse where it seemed like one kind of show then suddenly it was another. Joss Whedon later explained how the network didn't like the concept and made him "correct" it.

 

For some reason I'm thinking the opposite. I'm thinking that Fox wanted the diversity and it's the showrunners that are now more in charge. Regardless of who's at fault (from reading articles, etc. I am going more showrunners) I totally see this as Twisted Pt. 2. Well, maybe it touted Abbie as part of the story for a bit longer than Twisted did before it became ALL ABOUT JO and her family drama.  Sound familiar?

[kia112]

Every time Katia Winter's stomach was on fully display, I couldn't help but think, "Can someone please cover up that navel piercing hole?  I don't think that 18th century witches were rocking crop tops."

 

I know I feel better every time I get that "I Voted" sticker (can't wait to get mine, today!), so the fact that it made Crane feel better (even though he didn't even vote) was hilarious.

[HalcyonDays]

Eh. Eh. I prepped myself for the mess that this episode would be with lots of wine, so I don't even remember - what, Henry trapped Moloch in a jar? When did this happen??

 

Disgusted and disappointed in this show now for so many reasons (in no particular order):

First, the demon pregnancy trope. Thanks show for basically reducing a woman to an evil spawning uterus. Much appreciated. Especially a woman who is supposed to be an all powerful witch. The hell? And why couldn't that all powerful witch apparate to a safe place when she was around the gas station (she can do this - mentioned in the first season). Yes, so powerful...

Second, for shoving Henry and Katrina down my throat, both of whom I have no use for.

Third, for still having Ichabod and Katrina be so fucking ignorant and stupid to honestly believe that their son is redeemable. The scene between Henry and Ichabod at Tarrytown, I was like, yup, this stupid show is going to waste the rest of the season on redeeming this evil bastard.

Fourth: for sidelining two of the most compelling woman on TV - Jenny and Abbie. For what, to show demon pregnancies? To shove your muses into my face? Ugh.

 

I'm been watching too much Walking Dead, because in my mind, I was like - can't they just ceasarian section the demon baby out of Katrina, and put a bullet and a knife blade into it's skull and chest? No?

 

I was actually pleased that when Katrina was like "we have to redeem our son" and Ichabod is like, are you crazy, no way? That was realistic to me. That response I get. Not "we have to save our son". Do you not understand that your son was the one who knocked you up with a demon baby. Instead, we get Ichabod trying to reason with Henry at Tarrytown - are you serious? How bloody stupid are you, Ichabod? You honestly think you can reason with Henry.

 

Honestly, I want Abbie and Jenny to figure out a Witness Power Transfer Spell. Then they can transfer out the Witness part of Ichabod, put it into Jenny and go stop the Apocalypse. The Cranes can hole up in their lovey dovey cabin and out of the way, and the Mills' sisters can go take care of business. On top of that, Abbie doesn't have to spend her money on stupid people, and can save it for better things. That's how I feel right now.

 

I hate that Abbie isn't full out calling out Crane on his idiocy. Yell, scream, punch him, anything. Something to put him in his place. Because I can't take it. Abbie deserves better. Humanity deserves better.

 

I watched Constantine and Gotham before SH, and both episodes were vastly better.

 

My only positive note - can we somehow get lots of screen time of Ichabod in bed sans shirt, without the wife being there? prettyplease.

[kia112]

what, Henry trapped Moloch in a jar? When did this happen??

 

At the very end.  Just like Murky Dismal trapped the Monstromurk in a bottle during a Rainbow Brite episode.  I mean -- what?  Rainbow Brite?  Who even remembers that...

 

But seriously.  When I'm like, "Eh.  Rainbow Brite" did it better, there's a problem.

[Danny Franks]

 

Honestly, I want Abbie and Jenny to figure out a Witness Power Transfer Spell. Then they can transfer out the Witness part of Ichabod, put it into Jenny and go stop the Apocalypse. The Cranes can hole up in their lovey dovey cabin and out of the way, and the Mills' sisters can go take care of business. On top of that, Abbie doesn't have to spend her money on stupid people, and can save it for better things. That's how I feel right now.

 

 

I misread that as "Whiteness Power Transfer Spell" and thought, yeah, that's what it's going to take.

 

I think that, until I know better, I'm laying the blame at the door of Fox, here. They're not exactly unknown for being a network that interferes and hurts shows, because of the stupid views of those making the decisions. But if the EPs of the show have demonstrated disdain for Abbie, Irving and Jenny, then I think there are some real issues that need to be addressed. And they need to be addressed publicly. 

 

But please, I need this show to keep being good. Abbie is one of the few TV women I just fell in love with over the last couple of years. Along with Felicity Smoak, Amy Santiago and Jemma Simmons, she's been an absolute standout as a female character. And I've already had to drop Felicity and Simmons, thanks to the dumbfuckery of the writers and the persistent pushing of showkilling characters (hi, Laurel and Coulson, you bland pair of dickwads!). This show is threatening to follow that route, with its own bland 'star', Katrina. Don't just leave me with Santiago, TV gods. I mean, I love her too, but I'm greedy. I want more than just the one awesome woman on my TV watching schedule.

[Morrigan2575]

Crane keeps throwing her under the bus again and again for his useless wife and his evil son, the man who tried to kill Abbie a couple of episodes ago, but he doesn't care. All of this after told her they should put each other above anyone else and after making all kinds of oaths. And yet Abbie doesn't get a voice. She keeps tolerating him without calling him out on his many betrayals.

 

This is actually what set me off last night.  The very last discussion before that stupid fist bump and Abbie is once again forced to bite her tongue and not speak the truth which is that Ichabod and Katrina are a danger to the fight.  Abbie should have called Ichabod out for continuously risking the world and for each other and for their stupid evil son.  Instead, I'm left to believe that the show wants me to support Ichabod/Katrina over Abbie and I just can't.  Plus I really hated that Abbie got out voted...Katrina doesn't get a vote, she's not a Witness and if Katrina gets a vote, Jenny should have been there to vote.

 

That was a nice bit of character continuity. It makes perfect sense to me that one of the first things Crane did after what happened in the library was learn CPR. The show has done a good job showing that Crane is very serious about protecting those he cares about. 

 

That actually annoyed me because it was such a manipulative scene, Abbie acts like she has no idea that she should do CPR so that we can get the oh so dramatic Ichabod saves Katrina's life scene...isn't that romantic?  It would have been one thing if Abbie was the one at the window and by the time she ran back, Ichabod had already started CPR but having Abbie just sit there like a dummy so Ichabod could get the "hero" moment was annoying.

Edited November 4, 2014 by Morrigan2575

[LydiaMoon1]

I think that, until I know better, I'm laying the blame at the door of Fox, here.

 

 

I blame the network too, considering that SH is now reminding me unpleasantly of another Fox show named Glee.  Glee also began with a diverse cast and a lot of fanfare, only to be slowly strangled by numerous bait and swtiches and reducing its POC to guest roles (or dumping them altogether) while only keeping its white actors as regular cast members.

Edited November 4, 2014 by LydiaMoon1

[Timetoread]

I have an itchy feeling that someone told the showmakers to "lighten" up the cast a bit and suddenly two main characters who happen to be black are MIA while two white characters are being turned into main characters.

 

I kinda hate to go there but I closed my eyes, clicked my heels two times and here I am.

[phoenics]

No, they don't. Promoting shows with "diversity" is the bait to start off shows and attract a wide range of viewers that get the word out, but after a few episodes it's time for the switch and aim for the audience they really covet. It happens every time, that a show is run by mostly white people. You can count on Shonda for diverse shows, but always be suspicious of shows, where the producers in charge are the same old same old, because they'll give us exactly that.

 

So finally Sleepy Hollow has become the new Twisted. I didn't want it to be true, but here it is.

 

It was hard seeing Abbie become The Help for the Cranes, for Katrina during labor, just like her ancestor did, before a Crane killed her. Also paying this greasy moocher's bills, without even getting a thank you in return. I suppose the writers think that's the right role for a black woman.

 

Crane keeps throwing her under the bus again and again for his useless wife and his evil son, the man who tried to kill Abbie a couple of episodes ago, but he doesn't care. All of this after told her they should put each other above anyone else and after making all kinds of oaths. And yet Abbie doesn't get a voice. She keeps tolerating him without calling him out on his many betrayals.

 

But it's okay, because there was a fistbump at the end and we all know that's the only thing that matters in this show, when it comes to what they consider realistic profound friendships. All is good and nothing really mattered, because no matter what Crane does, no matter what the Cranes do, they always remain afloat. Like shit.

Like another poster said - I read your earlier posts and thought - okay HOPED - that this show would prove me wrong - but I am now firmly in the same camp as you.

Honestly I don't want to watch anymore. I am such an idealistic fan that when I get a whiff of "white privilege" ruining my favorite show and Headwriters and showrunners not getting it - well, I've been here before. Both with shows without POC and shows with POC.

This show makes me feel like the writers are giving me some kind of machiavellian choice. Either I accept Abbie being relegated to "The Help" (I cannot say enough how I HAAAAAATE this trope) - I mean - I DID NOT like Abbie being relegated to SLAVE WOMAN who watches over white woman as she gives birth. The parallel between her and her ancestor made me PHYSICALLY ILL. Like - we haven't come anywhere in the last 200+ years that Abbie is doing exactly what her ancestor did with Katrina - worse with Katrina/Crane so concerned about Henry, they have no regard for what he's done to others. So Abbie will probably end up dying for Ichabod/Katrina's poor decision making. Two Mills people dying for their family drama. NO! NOPE! *throws something hard at the wall*

*cough* Back to what I was saying...

Either I 1) accept Abbie as relegated to The Help Sidekick to the Great and Wonderful Cranes, and barely get to see any Irving or Jenny and I better just be glad I still have Nicole Beharie as lead actress IN NAME ONLY or 2) the writers will probably just completely get rid of Abbie, Irving AND Jenny to stick it to me as a fan and drill into my head that they really don't want me as a fan.

So not here for this. I love Nicole Beharie - but if she doesn't WAKE THE BLEEP up, she's gonna find herself on the outside looking in on her own show. This is NOT a Shonda Rhimes production where we KNOW the lead WOC will have her entire life fleshed out for us to see - not running through scenes being The Help, SBW ("She's too busy for a man!"), asexual, Sassy Sidekick, Magical Negro and whatever other horrible, stereotypical and TIRED trope they can throw at us.

I am so angry right now. I read this blog post when Carter was killed off of POI and the blogger chastised all of us women of color for thinking stuff would be different that time and helping POI's ratings when we should have known better. I had that blog post in the back of my mind for Sleepy Hollow.

I knew better.

And I still let myself get sucked in.

Ugh. Sucker!

I worry that even if a non-PoC writer/showrunner starts off with the right intentions, invariably their white privilege will get in the way and mess things up. Even this show, which has a POC writer added - and it's been a disaster.

So done. So freaking done.

[stealinghome]

I still love the show, but the stalling is becoming a problem. Why isn't Irving actively trying to get his soul back from Henry? Why is Jenny only in the episode to 1) steal something or 2) make eyes at Hawley? GET ON WITH IT, GUYS.

It's because Fox made a big mistake giving this show a full-season order. This show works so, so much better as basically a long miniseries.

[marceline]

For some reason I'm thinking the opposite. I'm thinking that Fox wanted the diversity and it's the showrunners that are now more in charge. Regardless of who's at fault (from reading articles, etc. I am going more showrunners) I totally see this as Twisted Pt. 2. Well, maybe it touted Abbie as part of the story for a bit longer than Twisted did before it became ALL ABOUT JO and her family drama.  Sound familiar?

 

But Twisted had a change in showrunner, correct? That's show went off the rails with Chuck Pratt took over and and All My Children (R.I.P.) viewer could tell you what kind of fuckery he's about. I'm still trying to figure out what's happening here. There's part of me still hoping there's a turnaround coming and that this is just a momentary bit of sophomore slump.

 

Of course if we start seeing #poorkatrina hashtags then I'll burn this show to the ground so fast it'll make Moloch look like Betty White.

Edited November 4, 2014 by marceline

[phoenics]

Ha! Ratings dropped again! Maybe the showrunners will start listening to fans now?

[HalcyonDays]

It's because Fox made a big mistake giving this show a full-season order. This show works so, so much better as basically a long miniseries.

 

No, I disagree with this, solely because 18 episodes does not have to equate with demon babies and pushing Katrina down our throats and character assassination on all fronts. The stories SH tells are so unique and crazy, yet they are writing typical tropes and shoving characters in the background. They didn't have to write stories that pushed Katrina to the forefront? Or if they did, in my view, they could have wrote stories that made Katrina evil - since her behaviour is so shady already it would make sense. Why couldn't they write an episode where she figures out how to bypass Henry's blocking of her powers and escapes herself? But no, they can't do that. They didn't have to write Irving in Tarrytown, nor write the words "we must redeem our son" spewing from the mouths of the Cranes every fucking episode. The writers could have focused on Abbie and Jenny a bit more, but instead they pushed more Crane drama - boring drama at that - at us.

 

From what I have read, it's not FOX that is forcing these changes - surprisingly. It's the writers themselves. Just from what I read.

 

Ha! Ratings dropped again! Maybe the showrunners will start listening to fans now?

 

Remember last season, when they had the Horseman in that Masonic cell, and Crane is interrogating him. Crane says "Feeling less than robust?" and the Horseman responds by angrily pulling at the chains.

 

Remember Crane's response.....? "Good."  Now picture it in your heads, his facial expression, narrowed eyes, the way he emphasized that word.

 

"Good...." That's how I feel about the ratings drop.

[slade3]

This was definitely the weakest (worst) episode of Sleepy Hollow. There were some good moments like the entire voting scene and Crane's reaction to the men in the hospital checking out his wife in goth clothes. I LOVED "I must Internet, immediately!" I would pay money to see the poster upthread who said s/he was going to say this at work! But this is the episode that cemented the lack of chemistry between Crane, Katrina and Abbie as a threesome. Even Hawley works better with Abbie and Ichabod (though no one is better than Jenny).

 

I miss John Cho, Orlando Jones and Lyndie Greenwood a lot.

 

It's funny because last season I was shocked Fox green-lighted a show that featured a white male lead with a black female lead (taboo in Hollywood), a Korean supporting actor and a black supporting actor. Corbin, Katrina and Jenny rounded out the cast and I wondered how long it would take for the network to change things. I also wondered if the show runners were people of color, but I watched their PaleyFest panel last year and was surprised when they said (after a question about diversity on the show) they didn't have diversity in mind when casting the show, or something like that. I remember they seemed surprised their show was considered diverse. When I heard that, I had a sinking feeling and soon after, the writers were making statements about Ichabod and Katrina being the true couple, etc. etc.

 

I didn't come into this show for diversity. It was a pleasant surprise, yes, but I tuned in for Nicole Beharie because I'd seen her in a couple of movies and think she's an interesting actor. But the problem for me now is that I believe truly talented and entertaining actors (Lyndie and Orlando) are being replaced by mediocre actors because of their skin color. That seems very unfair.

 

I'd hate to abandon the show since I really love watching Nicolae Beharie and Tom Mison every week, but I won't watch Abbie relegated to risking her life for the Cranes and their evil son, and arguing with them to be reasonable, in every episode. I gave up on Twisted early on and never looked back, so I don't even know what posters are talking about when they say this show is turning into Twisted 1B. (Can anyone point me to a place that summarizes what happened? Thanks.)

 

Very interesting that Orlando Jones didn't live tweet last night, DearEvette. I'd love to know the reason.

[Ann Mack]

The more and more I think about "Deliverance" as a full episode of Katrina and Crane pain I get more upset. For starters if you are planning to bring a demon baby into the world that has a speedy growth spurt why bother to remove Katrina at all from the house she was at? Surely, Abraham would have been upset but he also would have had no means in which to stop it. Which brings me to more stupidity within this episode, why in the hell would those henchmen bring the one thing that could stop his (Moloch's) arrival with them? Hell why bother locking it up when you could have left it wherever the hell it was at to begin with? 

 

The whole attire scene at the hospital really? This was just another cheap shot to try and make the audience see how beautifully endowed Katrina is and why Ichabod is so taking with his enchantress! Hell I was like WTF you have Abbie right there in front of her and you are trying to tell me that Katrina is the "only" one these guys are noticing, yeah right a definite what kind of blind fools do you take us for writers?

 

I was okay with suspending my belief to follow along with the craziness of this show, but now I think the writers just want me to suspend all common sense and turn a blind eye to the crap they are pushing thus far and trying to sell it as writing. Fine line between being a fan and being a fool, and I refuse to be the latter! 

 

Hopefully, the show finds it way back soon. Because I am really getting to a point where Ichabod is irritating the pure living crap out of me. I don't care about any romance between them I care about the chemistry and belief they instilled in the Ichabod and Abbie characters. Abbie is staying true to what made me like her in the first place, but Ichabod and all of his hypocrisy is REALLY...bugging me.

 

I think the ratings are beginning to reflect the unwillingness of the audience to sit through crap even if their 2 faves are there. I do think Ichabod is falling out of favor with a lot of viewers which is a shame, but the writers are not dong him any justice right now. Oh well I know I'm watching the next 2 episodes cause hey I am here for Nick and Abbie (I don't believe Jenny is going to have much of an issue with them) but yeah I think it will be Abbie to the rescue again only this time she'll be saving Nick. Can Abbie get just a little loving, I know she would love to relieve some of her stress and a drink at the local pub might not be enough. And of course episode 9 were there is hopefully tons of Abbie, Jenny, Irving and some Hawley thrown in. I'll keep some hope but my faith is fading quickly. BTW I stopped watching Twisted as soon as they had Jo sleep with the throw away guy.

Edited November 4, 2014 by Ann Mack

[moviewhore]

I actually hated this ep so much.  This is the first time I found myself disliking Ichy for his unending Katrina is my everything bullshit and how porr Henry just needs some love.  I could give less of a shit about the Crane Family Hour now.  It's taken over the goddamn show.  Where is Abbie's storyline or an outside life for her?  This was the first time I felt Abbie was marginalized and downgraded to Ichy's helper instead of partner. I sensed it before but in this one I was appalled.  The only time Abbie and Ichy had any give and take or really conversed was in the votinig line for about 10 minutes.  And why the fuck was it Ichy doing the CPR instead of Abbie?  Why was he front and center taking charge?  Why is his family life so looked at while Abbie's family life is non-existent with Jenny gone?  Why is Ichy making gains while Abbie is losing ground? 

 

I frankly found the whole Katrina getting knocked up with a demon disgusting and misogynistic.  It turned my stomach seeing her helpless like that. 

 

I am just running out of shows to watch and like but this is not the Sleepy Hollow of last year.  Somehow it's been decided that the unique partnership of Abbie and Ichy isn't needed and that the show needs less diversity and intelligence.  It's become mainstream and, yeah, boring to watch.  And seeing a POC, a strong, smart, sexy woman like Abbie get pushed into the background, not having her equally participate, is fury inducing. 

[marceline]

 

No, I disagree with this, solely because 18 episodes does not have to equate with demon babies and pushing Katrina down our throats and character assassination on all fronts.

Exactly. More episodes should give us more of all the cast connecting with each other. More Abbie/Jenny. More Jenny/Irving. More Irving/his family. More Abbie/Luke (or any Luke at all for that matter). Unfortunately what we got was more Crane family and nothing but more Crane family. This can be fixed but it needs to be fixed fast.

[Leia1979]

When [Katrina] looked at Abbie's gun, I hoped she was going to go Darla style and just grab it and off herself without warning anyone. Wishful thinking on my part.

 

I just re-watched that episode last week! I was thinking this seemed like a rip off of Cordelia's demon pregnancy (the season two version, not season four). I was kind of hoping Abbie would decide the only way to stop Moloch was to kill Katrina (my own idea was to send her back to purgatory). Of course, that would then lead to several months of "You killed my wife" tension.

[Artsda]

Not surprised it's dropping more. 

[Elsinore]

Liked

 

"I must Internet"

 

Katrina bolting towards the gas station right across the street. Seriously what?

 

Abbie's disappointment that Katrina survived both demon pregnancy and crappy CPR.

 

Disliked

 

All the I love Henry even if you think and the whole wide world KNOW he's evil crap.

 

The trailer for next week.

 

I thought this would be the season where the Ichabbie relationship cools down somewhat. We are now what, eight episodes in and I have yet to see any sign of it. I do see Abbie disapproving of the choices that Crane makes so perhaps the big blow up will happen in the season finale.

 

The trailer for next week.

 

Saw the 666 thing coming a million miles away.

[shanndee]

Exactly. More episodes should give us more of all the cast connecting with each other. More Abbie/Jenny. More Jenny/Irving. More Irving/his family. More Abbie/Luke (or any Luke at all for that matter). Unfortunately what we got was more Crane family and nothing but more Crane family. This can be fixed but it needs to be fixed fast.

 

I agree, but as someone pointed out to me on another board, the fix can't be quick. They already have numerous episodes in the can before they actually see a character on screen, and then see the fan response. While Hawley may have looked good on paper, he failed in execution. There is also the shock of "we're giving people what they want...what do you mean they don't like it?" and then it takes even longer for them to realize that "oh. They didn't want it in the first place..."

 

The person who posted this did a much better job describing it than I did, but I guess I have to understand that a fix will take time so I have to give the show that time. For the moment, I'm willing to give them some time...but I better see a return to this show's heart at the soonest possible moment.

 

(but, I'll be most likely be using my dvr instead of watching "live")

[saber5055]

 

I don't think I can take the goth corset and skinny jeans she ends up in. Does Ichabod comment on this outfit? Seems he should be scandalized. Abbie's skinny jeans are part of an appropriately action-ready outfit; the pictures of Katrina make me think her costume is meant (by the showrunners) to be provocative.

Funny you should mention this. Last episode, I was the one who brought up Abbie's double-jug yoga pants and "hello girls" hanging out of her tank top, something I felt inappropriate to wear around Crane even if he weren't from 200 years ago. However, Crane could have cared less, never made a mention, and Abbie never once had to say "My eyes are up here." But this week, with Katrina in jeans as tight as Abbie's and a corset-type top, Crane is all embarrassed and comments that the outfit is inappropriate and highly provocative. But they had to toss it on her to get her out of the hospital. WTH?

 

This is the first episode of this show that I really disliked, and I've figured out it had to do with Katrina. I loved the beginning, with the Abbie/Crane exchanges that I enjoy. I also like Abbie pointing out she supports Crane. Ha ha! We've wondered here if that was the case. Anyway, once Katrina comes on the scene, Crane is transformed into some namby pamby everyman. HATED the scenes of he and Katrina together. Just hated them, and made me wonder why I am watching this show. I WAS watching it for Mison/Crane, but if this is how the character is going to go, forget it.

 

Question: I thought Moloch was already around. Didn't he reprimand Henry a couple weeks ago for "thinking for himself" and not following Moloch's orders? So now Moloch needs to be born? The heck? Can someone explain, please?

 

Katrina pregnant ... my first thought was abortion doctor. My second thought was Ripley alien baby. My third thought was, no way was that kid being born in the traditional manner given Katrina was still packed into those skin-tight skinny jeans.

 

I hate the Henry-can-be-redeemed story line. I wonder if Adolph Hitler's parents felt the same way. Or Jeffry Daumer's or Pol Pot's. I still can't see why Crane feels any connection to this man who is older than he is. And, given Katrina's talent for "truth telling," might not be his real son at all. And what's up with Crane getting flashbacks when he touches Henry? Is Crane a sin eater now, too?

 

At least Crane learned CPR in the last couple of weeks. Now he can drive like Fast and Furious, play Internet war games AND save lives!

 

What the heck happened to Scary Headless? All anyone has to do is walk into his house and open the shades and Headless is helpless. WTH is up with that?

Edited November 4, 2014 by saber5055

[marceline]

 

I agree, but as someone pointed out to me on another board, the fix can't be quick. They already have numerous episodes in the can before they actually see a character on screen, and then see the fan response.

 

Good point. By fast, I meant this season. If the show finds its way back this season then I think they can get back some of the audience they're losing.

 

How far ahead do they tape? I need to know how much leeway to give them.

[stealinghome]

No, I disagree with this, solely because 18 episodes does not have to equate with demon babies and pushing Katrina down our throats and character assassination on all fronts.

I don't disagree, but my comment was specifically aimed at the stalling. The show has other problems at the moment, but specific to the pacing, the show is stalling on certain plotlines because it's obvious they're having to spread too little story over too many episodes. Irving's storyline is the clearest victim of this imo. They want him to be fighting for his soul in Tarrytown--only it's obvious they don't want that storyline to really ramp up until the last 4-6 or so episodes of the season and sweeps, so he's stuck in Tarrytown doing nothing or getting one scene an episode right now because they're artificially putting the brakes on his sl. If this was a 13-episode season, we'd have seen a lot more movement on his plot already.

 

Ditto for Henry. The character is decent enough in theory, but with as many one-offs as the show has had so far--and its need to have John Noble in every.single.damn.episode--it's really diluting the impact of what the show is trying to do with him (which is a pretty hard sell to begin with).

 

While Hawley may have looked good on paper, he failed in execution.

I have no use for the Hawley character, so I have to ask: how has the larger fandom response to him been? Here at PTV it seems pretty mixed, but what about on other sites, boards, etc?

 

What the heck happened to Scary Headless? All anyone has to do is walk into his house and open the shades and Headless is helpless. WTH is up with that?

Hasn't sunlight always been a problem for him? I thought that was a big part of the pilot.

Edited November 4, 2014 by stealinghome

[GracieV]

I think the focus on Katrina is sending away viewers, although for Fox the ratings are still pretty damn good. They will probably get another season if it doesn't completely tank.  Orlando Jones tweeted last night that he wasn't going to livetweet the West Coast because he had to get up in 4 hours for filming but does he usually tweet the East Coast too? I wonder if he'd be able to honestly say he wasn't tweeting because of the direction the show is taking? He doesn't seem to hold back.

[apgold]

 

I do see Abbie disapproving of the choices that Crane makes so perhaps the big blow up will happen in the season finale.

 

I hope it happens sooner than that, don't want to wait 10 episodes. 

[FierceAfroChick]

I have no use for the Hawley character, so I have to ask: how has the larger fandom response to him been? Here at PTV it seems pretty mixed, but what about on other sites, boards, etc?

 

I’ve visited a few tumblr sites and a couple of other message boards.  Some seemed gung ho on an Abbie/Nick hookup until it was discovered that he and Jenny used to knock boots and then it was “Ewww…hell no!”   Some resent the screen time he commands from Jenny/Irving.  And there are a few that can’t stand him.

[allyw]

I don't disagree, but my comment was specifically aimed at the stalling. The show has other problems at the moment, but specific to the pacing, the show is stalling on certain plotlines because it's obvious they're having to spread too little story over too many episodes. Irving's storyline is the clearest victim of this imo. They want him to be fighting for his soul in Tarrytown--only it's obvious they don't want that storyline to really ramp up until the last 4-6 or so episodes of the season and sweeps, so he's stuck in Tarrytown doing nothing or getting one scene an episode right now because they're artificially putting the brakes on his sl. If this was a 13-episode season, we'd have seen a lot more movement on his plot already.

 

Ditto for Henry. The character is decent enough in theory, but with as many one-offs as the show has had so far--and its need to have John Noble in every.single.damn.episode--it's really diluting the impact of what the show is trying to do with him (which is a pretty hard sell to begin with).

 

I have no use for the Hawley character, so I have to ask: how has the larger fandom response to him been? Here at PTV it seems pretty mixed, but what about on other sites, boards, etc?

 

Hasn't sunlight always been a problem for him? I thought that was a big part of the pilS

Sunlight has always been a problem but no one knew where he lived so they couldn't just roll up on him like that.

[saber5055]

 

Hasn't sunlight always been a problem for him? I thought that was a big part of the pilot.

That was a great part of S1, when Abbie/Crane and Co. tricked him into coming into the tunnels where he was subsequently chained under UV light, all at great risk to his captors. Now all anyone has to do is walk into his house, open the shades and Domestic Headless is finished. *yawn*

[patchwork]

I have this hope that Jenny hasn't been around much because she and Abbie are working together, finding a way to neutralise the Horsemen and that's going to be the big mid season twist. But I doubt it, worse than doubt it I think if that's why Abbie isn't objecting to the Cranes' nonsense it's going to turn out to be a pratfall and the Cranes are going to be proven 100% gloriously right. 

 

I didn't like this episode for a number of reasons all of which have already been brought up and if this Save Henry/Abbie The Help arc doesn't end soon I'm going to be moving on.