S05.E03: Four Walls And A Roof

[lulee]

Why does Abraham always look so much cleaner than everyone else?

His orangey-ness reminds you of Spic 'n' Span.

[Raven1707]

 

As far as Daryl and the mystery person...I think that it will be someone that we haven't met yet.

 

I think so too. Someone who Daryl doesn't think will be a danger to them, but who he's brought back for a reason, more than likely having to do with Beth.

 

 

I've watched 3 times now and I really didn't see any looks of horror or disgust on the part of Glenn & Maggie.

 

I've watched 4 times so far -- I tend to obsess over this show -- and I can honestly say, I didn't see that from either of them.

 

 

A lot of my block on this is that given the CDC, Glenn's buying into Eugene's story enough to separate the group makes little sense to me.

 

The thing that differentiates the CDC situation from D.C. (for me) is that the CDC was destroyed because it was essentially a reservoir of deadly pathogens that would no longer be contained when the power went out. I could be wrong, but my impression is that where Abraham & Co. are heading is more of a command & control type of place, one of those underground bunkers where assorted government-types and other "essential" personnel would be safe & sound during an apocalyptic event of any kind. Whether such a place would facilitate the type of R&D Eugene (Ha!) would need in order to "save the world" is an open question, but at the very least, it would potentially offer shelter, as well as food & water.

 

Oh, and I like Beth.

[kikismom]

Great post.

Oh, and...

 

 Eurgene is lying. 

Ehrmahgerd!

[Guest]

The thing is, how do you get to the point of being able to beat someone to death, without drawing on some inner rage to push through the goriness of it all? I think they had to go to that primal place, but it's scary to think of not being able to turn that part of you off again.

 

I agree.

 

I think that is why they are emphasizing that some people are worse than walkers.  The walkers are likely desensitizing them and the former sentiment is making it easier.  I think that's why they are having Tyreese unable to kill walkers and people.

[AngelaHunter]

However, there is a danger to our heroes in letting their emotions carry them away into to such brutality, because perhaps one day the person their enraged at will actually deserve mercy, and our heroes will have lost the self-discipline to left their better natures prevail

 

I think the elimination of the Termites WAS a disciplined operation and probably discussed before Rick et al returned to the church. Ammunition is a valuable commodity, so why waste it on the likes of  Gareth and his Merry Band of Sadists - sadists way beyond any form of redemption who would probably have gutted a baby to make pate for appetizers? Beating and hacking them to death was economical, sensible and oh, so satisfying.

[GreyBunny]

The manner of the killing of the Termites was brutal, and I think the manner of their executions was definitely about a release of our gang's pent up rage and fear, and revenge.  The Termites definitely deserved to die -- death was a just consequence for all of the innocent people they trapped, tortured (psychologically if not physically), murdered, and ate -- that's quite a fucking taboo to break.  However, there is a danger to our heroes in letting their emotions carry them away into to such brutality, because perhaps one day the person their enraged at will actually deserve mercy, and our heroes will have lost the self-discipline to left their better natures prevail.

 

However, all that said, the Termites freaking dismembered Bob's leg and ate it in front of him, and taunted him about killing the rest of the people he loved in like fashion, relishing the thought of killing women . . .  and all those toys and Teddy Bears at Terminus. . . and menacing Carl and baby Judith. . .

 

Fuck 'em!  Our heroes can exercise self-discipline another day.

 

I generally agree.  The Termites went so far over the line that however they were dispatched was justified.  When Rick and co. hacked Gareth and pals to death, I didn't see it as a slippery slope but a necessary catharsis.  They vented their rage on those who directly deserved it.  I'd rather see that than to have them bottle it up only to squeeze out in other weird ways.    

[queenanne]

Why does Abraham always look so much cleaner than everyone else?

 

I think his skin is so sun-defyingly white, it just reflects light.  (As a fishbelly-white person myself, I kid, I kid.)

[shanndee]

The thing is, how do you get to the point of being able to beat someone to death, without drawing on some inner rage to push through the goriness of it all? I think they had to go to that primal place, but it's scary to think of not being able to turn that part of you off again.

 

This!

 

And a part of me thinks that this is the reason Tyrese won't kill. He knows what he is capable of, and he is deeply afraid he will not be able to turn it off again. He told the Termite something along the lines of "You don't know what I've done" and he has alluded to a dark past. I think his non-violence is his way of maintaining control.

[klarsonovsky]

I actually really like the character of Beth, so I'm looking forward to next week.  My first thought when she was originally kidnapped was that it'd be some type of post-apocalyptic fertility program (a la Handmaid's Tale), and previews indicate that's a fair possibility. I'm assuming when Daryl came out of the woods at the end of the ep, the events we'll see next week re: Beth had already happened.

 

So who's waiting in the woods? My guess is Beth-- along 3-5 more young women rescued from that facility (all wearing red shirts, unless one of them happens to be Tyrese's type). That would explain Daryl's caution and hesitation.

 

Unfortunately-- and I hate this, but-- I think Carol will end up sacrificing herself to facilitate Beth and Daryl's escape. I love the character, I don't think she needs any redemption, and i think at this point the other main characters would probably agree, but clearly Carol is unable to let go of what happened with the girls in the Grove. She might have been able to move past it, but Tyrese's insistence that nobody needs to know really just made it more of a burden for her. I think she's been painted into a corner, writing-wise, and since she's already gotten her big hero moment, she just isn't long for this world.

 

I predict that at some point in the next ep, Carol will confide in Daryl about what happened with Lizzie, that he will understand and support her, that she will feel absolved-- and then will sacrifice herself to save the others.

 

Other thoughts:

Think the split was a good idea. The group was just too large to imagine them moving cross country en masse. When and how they'll be reunited gives the next few episodes extra drama.

 

If Beth returns, she will prove the catalyst for following Abraham's crew (to reunite with her sister).

 

Yeah yeah, I know what you're going to say, but Beth (if she returns at this point) knows for a fact that her sister was there a few hours ago, and has a map to show where she's heading. Whereas Maggie only knew that her sister was not on the bus and that the prison was a death zone. She had no way to know that all the major characters would miraculously survive. 

 

RIP Bob. Obviously, all the lovey-dovey stuff with Sasha made his imminent exit pretty clear in the last episode, but the real nail in his coffin was his conversation with Rick (about going to D.C., having hope, etc.) on the way to the food bank. As soon as he started talking I wanted to yell, "Is your name Dale? Or T-Dog? Or Herschel? Shut up with the 'we are good people there is still hope' moralizing-- shit, you've already said too much! You are going to die!"

Edited October 28, 2014 by klarsonovsky

[Guest]

I could be wrong, but my impression is that where Abraham & Co. are heading is more of a command & control type of place, one of those underground bunkers where assorted government-types and other "essential" personnel would be safe & sound during an apocalyptic event of any kind. Whether such a place would facilitate the type of R&D Eugene (Ha!) would need in order to "save the world" is an open question, but at the very least, it would potentially offer shelter, as well as food & water.

 

This would be assuming that they can avoid being chewed on in a highly populated area such as DC, that the bunkers are actually in DC and the government types aren't evacuated to some bunker that is not in a city that would be a first round target of the type of threats they prepare for, they can find one and that random yahoos like Abraham can get into said bunker after its been locked down.

[Anela]

 

 

However, all that said, the Termites freaking dismembered Bob's leg and ate it in front of him, and taunted him about killing the rest of the people he loved in like fashion, relishing the thought of killing women . . .  and all those toys and Teddy Bears at Terminus. . . and menacing Carl and baby Judith. . .

 

Fuck 'em!  Our heroes can exercise self-discipline another day.

 

Yes, those teddy bears, and the speech to Bob about bears eating their cubs. *shiver*

 

I'm okay with Tyreese not flipping out. I was going to say that someone has to keep their head, but that sounds like the start of another cannibal joke.

 

I don't mind Beth, and am hoping that she gets better at this, if they intend to keep her around. I don't want her to be in a relationship with Daryl, or for Carol to be sacrificed in order to keep her around, though.

[AngelaHunter]

Quote

I think Carol will end up sacrificing herself to facilitate Beth and Daryl's escape. I love the character, I don't think she needs any redemption, and i think the other main characters would probably agree, but clearly Carol is unable to let go of what happened with the girls in the Grove.

 

As I mentioned in her forum, to me Carol is truly the Walking Dead and has been for some time. The guilt over what happened with the girls seemed to be last nail in her coffin. She now seems to be stripped of emotions and I really think she doesn't care at all what happens to her, so I agree that she may sacrifice herself.

 

On a lighter note, I enjoyed how the Mullet Man tried to defy Abraham, was ordered to get moving the way one might order a dog into a car and waddled penguin-like down the aisle. Maybe cartoon time is over now that they're gone?

[Too Late Kev]

I can see wanting Glenn and Maggie. They may be no Richonne Dixon, but they're pretty formidable. Glenn is fast and very creative when it comes to strategy. Maggie is pretty tough and resilient. But Tara? Her big gesture just made me laugh. I'd promise to do anything Rick wanted if he would keep her. And I don't hate Tara. But she's always stumbling and twisting an ankle.

 

You want Tara with you. Next time she stumbles and twists an ankle, some of the walkers will stop for the nummy-nummy appetizer, giving you a chance to get away.

 

Why did the Termites dump Bob in front of the church?   To send a message to Rick's group?  Wouldn't it have been much easier to pick them off if Rick's group didn't even know they were out there? 

 

I'm guessing they dumped Bob in hopes that Bob would tell everyone about the nearby school, drawing off the best fighters and leaving the "weak" behind.

 

But if the people at the hospital cut both of Beth's legs off and Carol came out of the woods pushing Beth on a little skateboard it would be awesome.

 

Hungry, hungry, hospital workers?

[Guest]

On a lighter note, I enjoyed how the Mullet Man tried to defy Abraham, was ordered to get moving the way one might order a dog into a car and waddled penguin-like down the aisle. Maybe cartoon time is over now that they're gone?

 

I'm starting to wonder if Eugene has tried to admit he's lying. That Rosita kind of knows he's lying and Abraham knows deep down too but can't deal with not having hope that the ZA is the new reality.  Neither Eugene or Rosita seemed particularly eager to go ASAP.

[RedheadZombie]

Maggie's been marginalized so far this season, but I liked the short moment she had with Bob before he died.  She, Bob, and Sasha were together, at least for a time, so I appreciated that.

 

When Rick was talking to Bob while holding Judith, I was flashing back to Steve Irwin interacting with a crocodile while holding his baby.  Makes me a little nervous.

[Iguessnot]

Not a fan of Beth, but...that's a little extreme, lol.

 

Anyone think that the previews of Beth in scrubs will end up being flashbacks?

 

I have no idea but what I saw was Beth, who knows she's in the zombie apocalypse, banging loudly on a door, When the door starts to open, she get apprehensive and pulls that tiny needle out of her arm in the hopes of pin pricking something to death. Sigh.

[SpaghettiTuesdays]

No. I'm ashamed of myself, but every time I saw Judith all I could think was veal Judith.

 

My 12 year old sister said the exact thing! She thought she (Judith) would be moist and tender, haha.

I really loved when Gareth was begging for his life...

I was like, say whaaat?!? When Gareth was doing his speech. "We can forget about this, blah blah blah". No way, boy. you had you chance to walk away and live merrily eating rabbits. You had to make your life more difficult (and end) so there.

 

I got the feeling Daryl was talking to a child, but after reading others' responses, I think it's probably Morgan. I was hoping they'd draw it out a bit more, but I like Morgan so it's ok. I think he may have gone a little off the deep end, though, but really, who hasn't/wouldn't?

 

Maybe Beth's going to be a baby factory in some dystopian town. Those are the kind of feelings I got.

 

Carl is so badass. I love him now he's not the annoying little kid or the psycho shoot-everyone-on-site dude.

 

I'm really, really gonna miss Maggie and especially Glenn. Glenn has always been my favorite. The show won't feel the same with them not with the group. :(

[shanndee]

I'm starting to wonder if Eugene has tried to admit he's lying. That Rosita kind of knows he's lying and Abraham knows deep down too but can't deal with not having hope that the ZA is the new reality.  Neither Eugene or Rosita seemed particularly eager to go ASAP.

 

I think you're onto something there. Eugene feels safer in a large group and doesn't want to continue on what he knows is a fools errand. Rosita knows the truth, but Abraham is a good soldier who needs to complete his mission so he won't entertain his doubts. 

 

That would explain a lot.

[RainOnToosdays]

I have no problem with anyone going to D.C.. The way I see it, CDB has been stumbling aimlessly around the same vicinity of Georgia for two years with no purpose or plan other than to keep being alive.  As some of the characters have touched on, that's no way to live; even Carl is bored with such a pointless existence now.
They can go because they actually believe; they can go because they simply want to believe; they can go because regardless of what they believe it's something to do, a purpose & a goal. They can go because there is no reason not to go - stumbling northwards should be just as easy as stumbling in circles.

 

I like Gabriel. (I so want to call him Father Gabriel but would that be right? He's dressed like a Roman Catholic priest but are Episcopalian priests called Father? Are they even called priests?] His crack about stealing their squirrels had me LOL. Also when we first met him by the rock - I don't remember the exact dialog that led up to it but someone was questioning his faith or something - and Gabriel said (again, don't have the exact dialog so paraphrasing) "I asked God for help. And you came along and saved me." Good point, Father!  He seems to have been passing time by copying the bible by hand.  Did you notice Carol flipping backwards in his notebook to Genesis? I thought that was a nice touch what with Daryl talking to her about new beginnings. And Daryl taking time to eyeball the painting of The Last Supper. Ahh, someone about to die, someone about to be a traitor. Who may be who is open to interpretation.

 

I still can't give a hoot about Tyrese. Don't know if it is the character or the way the actor is playing him but he is just tiring and uninteresting to me. Bob was just starting to grow on me a little bit. I am not sad that he is dead though. I think they strung his death out too long but I did love his maniacal "TAINTED MEAT!!" scene. Sasha is neither here nor there for me. The romantic relationship between Sasha and Bob did nothing for me. Neither did Tyrese & Karen. Both "relationships" seemed too quick, without enough time or backstory to make me feel anything between them or care. Must be genetics that both Sasha and brother Ty fall so quickly.

 

I guess I'm a little slower on the uptake then most here because it never dawned on me that Rick & Co were planning on doubling back to the church. I was trying to decide who was going to be the hero - Carl? Father Gabriel? - but it was so dark I wasn't really even sure who all was still in the church. Rick showing up was totally unexpected for me.

 

I hate that Glen & Maggie went with Abraham. Makes zero sense to me. I could live with the writers splitting up the group again so soon but that was, IMO, a ridiculous way to do it.

 

I can't decide who Daryl might have with him but I don't think it is Carol or Beth. I sort of think he has a young person or young people plural with him (he's always had a soft spot for the kids because noone ever came looking for him when he was lost right?) but any more on that would better belong in the Speculation thread.

 

I'm looking forward to Beth rejoining the group and finding out what happened to her and seeing what happens from here. I get that there is an awful lot of Beth-Haters out there and I even get why .. she has no point. But .... think back to other characters .. there were an awful lot of Carol-Haters too because she was seen as weak and useless and not contributing anything to the group's survival but look how far Carol has come .. the writers have made us stand up and take note of Carol and the tide has turned, the majority seems to be pro-Carol now. You could say the same of Carl and even Michonne. Give the show a chance to evolve the character and who knows, she may be our next fan favorite. I agree that the actress playing Beth does not seem to be on the same level as the other actors but it could be she hasn't been given any good scripts to really work with yet. I am more than willing to give Beth a chance because hey, back in Season 1 and 2, we all pretty much thought Carol was a useless abused housewife and Carl was just a stupid bratty kid ... 

That said, Beth could also end up as another Tyrese .. no matter what the writers do we just can't summon up a care for the character. 

 

And that reminds me ... There were no goodbyes between Glen/Maggie and Rick & Remaining Gang. No sad words, no hugs, no handshakes and see ya' soon/ be safe .... I didn't like that but hmm.... Thats' how Beth was isn't it? If I recall, she said she didn't do goodbyes, to her "boyfriend" at the prison before he went off and got himself killed. 

 

ETA: Forgot one thing ... The ad for next week with Beth .... isn't that how the whole series started? With Rick waking up alone in a deserted hospital? Freaky. 

Edited October 28, 2014 by RainOnToosdays

[AngelaHunter]

Quote

I've watched 3 times now and I really didn't see any looks of horror or disgust on the part of Glenn & Maggie.

 

Here's Maggie watching. Maybe I"m wrong but looks like an "Oh, yuck" moment to me. Maybe she forgot that her hubby was seconds away from having his head bashed and throat slit by these people.

 

[Madding crowd]

I don"t feel a shred of remorse for the Termites, but I still want Rick to be a human being. Surrendering completely to a feral mindset would come between his relationship with his kids. I don't mind Tyrese either, there are all kinds of people in the world. I know some people would like to just kill and eat, kill and eat until they were the last man standing, but to me a life with out human contact and emotion is not worth living. I understand Rick's rage at what the Termites were doing, but for his own sake, I hope he can come back to who he was. 

 

I have more interest in Beth than the three comic book people and I would rather follow her story than theirs. Nothing about Eugene and Abraham makes any sense to me, and why two smart people like Glen and Maggie would go with them is quite puzzling. If nothing else, Beth's story will bring in a new element.

 

Sadly, I also think Carol will die trying to save Beth. Carol's story is kind of done and while I would love to see how her and Daryl continue to care for each other and have each other's backs, there are too many characters now and new ones coming all the time. Unless they have something new for Father Gabriel to do, he can go to. I still don't believe his congregation couldn't break through, can't believe that a man that terrified ventured into houses to scavenge, and don't believe anything about him. 

[Iguessnot]

 

I guess I'm a little slower on the uptake then most here because it never dawned on me that Rick & Co were planning on doubling back to the church. I was trying to decide who was going to be the hero - Carl? Father Gabriel? - but it was so dark I wasn't really even sure who all was still in the church. Rick showing up was totally unexpected for me.

 

I didn't expect that either. I just loved that still camera showing CDB walking away, making us hold our breaths waiting for what was coming and seeing the termites approach. Excellent.

[peach]

I have no idea but what I saw was Beth, who knows she's in the zombie apocalypse, banging loudly on a door, When the door starts to open, she get apprehensive and pulls that tiny needle out of her arm in the hopes of pin pricking something to death. Sigh.

Hey, she might burn that place to the ground.

[Pete Martell]

Here's Maggie watching. Maybe I"m wrong but looks like an "Oh, yuck" moment to me. Maybe she forgot that her hubby was seconds away from having his head bashed and throat slit by these people.

 

I'm sure she didn't forget what they did. There's a reason why she didn't try to stop these killings. As far as we know she never even said anything to Rick or the others suggesting she was upset with them. I just think in that moment she was repulsed.

[Pete Martell]

 The romantic relationship between Sasha and Bob did nothing for me. Neither did Tyrese & Karen. Both "relationships" seemed too quick, without enough time or backstory to make me feel anything between them or care. Must be genetics that both Sasha and brother Ty fall so quickly.

 

I thought the Karen/Tyreese relationship was a cheat (it was never shown developing and it was only the work of the actors that nearly made me care), but the Sasha/Bob relationship was believable for me. It was never really presented as her forever true love - he was just someone who made her laugh and smile and made her try to give the world the chance. 

[Pete Martell]

 

I'm looking forward to Beth rejoining the group and finding out what happened to her and seeing what happens from here. I get that there is an awful lot of Beth-Haters out there and I even get why .. she has no point. But .... think back to other characters .. there were an awful lot of Carol-Haters too because she was seen as weak and useless and not contributing anything to the group's survival but look how far Carol has come .. the writers have made us stand up and take note of Carol and the tide has turned, the majority seems to be pro-Carol now. You could say the same of Carl and even Michonne. Give the show a chance to evolve the character and who knows, she may be our next fan favorite. I agree that the actress playing Beth does not seem to be on the same level as the other actors but it could be she hasn't been given any good scripts to really work with yet. I am more than willing to give Beth a chance because hey, back in Season 1 and 2, we all pretty much thought Carol was a useless abused housewife and Carl was just a stupid bratty kid ... 

That said, Beth could also end up as another Tyrese .. no matter what the writers do we just can't summon up a care for the character. 

 

I like Beth. I've always liked Beth. I think Emily Kinney has a certain range which she can do well in. I think the show needs characters like Beth who will never be the traditional action heroine badass. I think the show has erred in letting the idea fester that Beth is the new Carol or that Beth is going to replace Carol. I don't believe that is the case (I certainly hope it isn't), and yet all the focus on their relationships with Daryl has just made even more fans feel this way. Many fans personally identify with Carol, so that means Beth is a threat to what they feel or who they are, not just a character on the show. And of course some fans just find her annoying, and it has nothing to do with Carol.

 

I'd just like to see her have more relationships with more people on the show. I didn't hate "Still," but I wish they'd had more for her in an episode that was just her and one other person.

[CletusMusashi]

I have no problem whatsoever with Rick being brutal. The Termy Bunch had to be killed, and the quickest way to take down an enemy is with brutality. Anyone who knows anything about ballistics knows perfectly well that shooting somebody with a gun, even though it's only a trigger-pull to the shooter, is brutal as fuck to the shootee. And  if you're in better position for a throat bite or a machete slash, by all means, take the opportunity and win the fight.

My only issue is that it was too slow. You're in a church, at night, with no electricity. It is illuminated by the show's usual improbable number of candles, which are playing hell with everybody's peripheral night vision.

You, fortunately, can target the main bad guy so well that you can actually shoot off his trigger finger. 

But you couldn't use that same bullet to shoot him in the head? And then have one less bad guy to worry about? Maybe not everybody else on your side can watch every single cannibal that's supposed to be kneeling down harmlessly. Kill them all, because if even one of them had decided to surprise the group, one of the good guys might well be dead right now.

 

What are the reasons for punishment?

 

1. Discipline.

If you want to train someone how to behave, the stick has a role as well as the carrot.

But if you're going to kill them in a few minutes anyway, that's not your motivation.

 

2. Example:

You know. Just to make absolutely certain that Glenn and Tyreese and Eugene know that you don't want them to become cannibals. Because otherwise they totally would.

 

3. Closure:

Sometimes a group has been so wronged that they absolutely have to see what they consider justice. In this case, however, we're talking about a group of basically friendly people who have seen and done way, way too much violence for their tastes. If shooting the Termites in the hands, limbs, and genitals before eventually managing to kill them was the only way to take them down, they'd be okay with it. But mostly, they just want the immediate violent threat dead right now so they can go back to their other regularly scheduled problems. 

 

4. Ego:

Personal revenge. Not always evil, but certainly not a sign of a cool-headed CO. If you are choosing between killing a bunch of smart, tough, ruthless, dangerous people right now, and making a speech at them for a few minutes before killing them just as dead, the only real objective your choice is accomplishing is putting your group at risk for a longer time. 

 

What makes him so sure there weren't more coming in from outside? This was a big group, with radio communication, and they'd obviously planned out how they wanted to use Bob to throw Rick's group off their A-game. What? Bob says "This is how many survivors of Terminus there are..."? Right. 'Cause he couldn't possibly be confused and in shock. Or unaware of things they chose to keep secret from him. Or... an idiot...

 

Kill the immediate threat, immediately. You are not going to take them prisoner, so wasting your time pretending to is stupid. I actually agree they deserved to be put down like Walkers. That means no trial, no explanation, no showboating. Just kill, turn around, and see if there's more coming after you.

Edited October 28, 2014 by CletusMusashi

[Pete Martell]

Kill the immediate threat, immediately. You are not going to take them prisoner, so wasting your time pretending to is stupid. I actually agree they deserved to be put down like Walkers. That means no trial, no explanation, no showboating. Just kill, turn around, and see if there's more coming after you.

 

Not immediately killing Gareth may have helped lull the Termites they didn't kill into not going out in a blaze of glory, and instead agreeing to drop their weapons. Beyond toying with Gareth, I think that may have been one of the main reasons Rick just shot off his fingers.

[Trek]

As many have been referring to the truthfulness/merits (or lack thereof) of pursuing Eugene’s “cure,” it may be useful to clarify what that plan actually is.

 

As he stated in the train car, he actually does not have a cure – not in the medical sense anyway. What he claims to have is a weapon; the formula to a biochemical pathogen that will wipe out all the zombies.  As such, he does not need some medical lab or CDC type research facility, intact or otherwise. What he needs is access to a weapons delivery system.  (Presumably, the pathogen will linger in the environment after all the initial walkers are killed off so anyone who dies later from natural causes  will immediately croak – again – before they can get up or something, but it isn’t actually going to cure anyone). According to what he told Sasha in the train car, the trigger to exactly such a delivery system exists in DC.

 

Having said that, even if true, this makes his story even more ridiculous. Getting to the launch trigger facility in DC is going to do precisely nothing even if it is still staffed (somehow I doubt that keeping anthrax missiles trained on N. Korea and the like is going to remain a high priority task for the military post ZA) with generals that have the necessary codes, programmers who can re-program the targeting system and some techies to mass manufacture the pathogen. Someone has still got to go round replacing all the payloads with “Eugene formula”’ payload, getting the electricity generators back on etc. at every.single.individual.silo located across the entire country before the trigger is going to do any good at all. Who the heck is going to do that?

Edited October 28, 2014 by Trek

[CletusMusashi]

Not immediately killing Gareth may have helped lull the Termites they didn't kill into not going out in a blaze of glory, and instead agreeing to drop their weapons. Beyond toying with Gareth, I think that may have been one of the main reasons Rick just shot off his fingers.

Maybe. But unless Rick had already read the whole script, there was no reason to just take for granted that there were no more Termites moving in. Last time he tried to take a hostage, he wound up surrounded and locked in a cattle car. Straight up honest fights are what he and his group are actually great at. Any decision whatsoever involving hostages... not really Rick's forte. 

[Pete Martell]

I don't think Rick planned to take a hostage. I think (maybe) the idea was to take out several of the Termites by surprise, disable Gareth, then, since they could have killed Gareth but didn't, help use this to help convince Martin and the other two that if they dropped their weapons they might live. 

 

Then they all got the slaughter.

 

I agree that Rick didn't anticipate the possibility of other Terminus people showing up, but I guess there isn't much they could have done about that anyway; they just killed the people they could kill.

[BrendasChoppers]

From the look Daryl gave Michonne, I think Carol's toast. Sadly. She's my favorite female character. I enjoy her because she takes care of biness. The same reason I liked Shane (despite the unexplainable fixation on Lori) and why I adore Rick. And perhaps I wear the mark of the beast, but I have no problem with Rick's overkill. The situation called for it. In fact, I would have been behind him screaming "Keep chopping Baby! Remember Tyrese? Make sure the job is done!"  There'd be none of this Glenn "We're not these people!". Oh STFU and get on the bus and ride far away from my ass if you can't adapt.

Edited October 28, 2014 by BrendasChoppers

[kj4ever]

I think his skin is so sun-defyingly white, it just reflects light.  (As a fishbelly-white person myself, I kid, I kid.)

Ha!  It's an Army thing too...They are taught to be neat, clean, and tidy whnever they possibly can so that they don't spread things like bugs (eww) while living in close quarters.

 

I know lots of people don't like the pretty young blonde, but I really hope Daryl gets a win out of this one.  He is always the one who worries about any missing person and it has always turned out bad for him.  I really hope he actually gets to save one this time.

[40Love]

From the look Daryl gave Michonne, I think Carol's toast. Sadly. She's my favorite female character. I enjoy her because she takes care of biness.

 

I don't think it's Carol or Beth. It's almost like someone behind Daryl was holding a gun and forcing Daryl to show himself to Michonne...like he was coerced. Daryl seemed reluctant. Maybe Carol is being held captive somewhere else and the captors forced Daryl to take them to his camp. 

[kikismom]

See what you think of this opinion  ;-)

 

http://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2014/oct/27/the-walking-dead-season-five-episode-three-recap

[GodsBeloved]

ETA: I agree that Tyrese is going to have to come to terms with the need to kill both Walkers and dangerous humans, but I like him. He's a hard worker who is singlehandedly responsible for saving Judith from the prison and the man tried to keep three kids alive and well all by himself. He's seems to have a gentle nature and a strong moral center, and he's struggling with the savagery around him. Yes, he needs to cope with it soon in order to survive, but I like him, and I appreciate his struggle, especially after what happened with Lizzie and Mika. Heck, even the formidable Carol seems to be struggling with that, so I am trying to be patient with Tyrese.

I think Tyreese has come to terms with killing walkers. He has expressed that he doesn't like it and even said he can't but when the chips are down and its necessary, Tyreese has killed walkers.

[ghoulina]

I've watched 3 times now and I really didn't see any looks of horror or disgust on the part of Glenn & Maggie.

 

I wasn't even paying attention to them the first time, so I made a point to re-watch that scene last night (tried to watch the entire episode, but was too damn tired). I didn't really see it either. Definitely not with Glenn. It was so dark in that church, I couldn't really make out any expression on his face. Tara just had a "Well, that escalated quickly" look on her face, but didn't seem upset about it. Tyrese, of course, was pulling his typical Dale face. But that's Tyrese.And with him, I really thought it was more about seeing a new side of his sister. That might shock anyone.  Maggie was the only one who actually looked like she had a disgusted look on her face, but I really didn't see it as being disgusted by her friends, but more just grossed out by the actual carnage itself. Which I found odd. You'd think people would become numb to blood at guts at some point, but maybe they don't? Anyhow, I didn't see any judgement....at all. And it wouldn't really make sense to want to leave the group because of their brutality, when Abraham was right in the thick of that massacre. 

 

Yes, those teddy bears, and the speech to Bob about bears eating their cubs. *shiver*

 

And then he said something about the pretty ones tasting better. Totally creepy. 

 

You want Tara with you. Next time she stumbles and twists an ankle, some of the walkers will stop for the nummy-nummy appetizer, giving you a chance to get away.

 

Oh gosh, they're going to make Tara their Otis!

[Ottis]

I don't understand why Gareth returned Bob to the church. It allowed Bob to explain to Rick & company what had happened, who they were up against and what might happen next to them. It would have made more sense for Gareth to keep Bob and go after the rest while they were unsure what was happening. I suppose Gareth could have thought he was being clever, i.e., Rick seeing Bob would outrage Rick and they would go on the attack, but that is a huge gamble given that if Rick doesn't react that way, you just gave him invaluable intel.Also, it assumes that Gareth knows how many guns the group has to begin with (and that they haven't found more), can see which guns Rick and company took with them on their feint attack to the school and that those left behind haven't found new guns or are not decently armed. Because Gareth only had what, 5 people? It wouldn't take many guns to even those odds. That bugged.

 

Also, I couldn't buy the actor playing the priest. His "emotional" confession felt like someone acting out an emotional confession, not reliving events. I don't know if that is because of the actor's lack of skill, or because the character was lying. But that went on and on, and I saw the actor (not the character) every second.

Edited October 28, 2014 by Ottis

[lulee]

Also, I couldn't buy the actor playing the priest. His "emotional" confession felt like someone acting out an emotional confession, not reliving events. I don't know if that is because of the actor's lack of skill, or because the character was lying. But that went on and on, and I saw the actor (not the character) every second.

Maybe he's still hiding more secrets and that was the long-rehearsed confession of the partial truth.

[kia112]

Father Gabriel saying "This is the Lord's house" really, really pissed me off because if he truly believed what he said, he wouldn't have locked the doors to the Lord's house and kept those poor people out.

 

One of the main factors in Christianity is repentance and the idea that who you were yesterday doesn't have to dictate who you are today.  Father Gabriel can certainly make the mistake (or the willful decision, fueled by terror) 1 1/2 years ago to save his own life at the expense of his congregation and believe that the House of the Lord shouldn't be a place where you murder people.  It's not like he popped a round off in someone's head 2 seconds earlier and then turned around and said that.  I think he was just shocked.  Now, that being said, even Jesus turned up in the temple when he needed to.  Get with the program, Gabriel.

[SHOgirl]

One thing I haven't mentioned but truly loved was Carl tapping on his gun while they were hiding from the Termites. It took me back to all the old western movies with duels in the streets. I thought it was a nice touch and signified his badassery.

[RedHackle]

That didn't bother me.  Rick is taking the approach of leaving no man behind.  He's still letting the group make the decision of staying or going but just not at the expense of the whole which is why Abraham didn't get to bug out in the middle of a fight/imminent attack with the only transportation while they had people missing.

 

Great explanation, ParadoxLost, thanks.  Hadn't thought of it that way and it makes perfect sense.

Edited October 28, 2014 by RedHackle

[PunkyMouse]

I don't think Carol is in the woods with Daryl either. I think that it's Daryl and Carol's own personal "No Child Left Behind" plan and Daryl has some random kid from the hospital while Carol stayed behind to nurse Beth who is suffering from the effects of whatever wad done to her by the creepy doctor guy.

Childless Carol gets to mother someone again and motherless Beth is cared for one last time before quietly succumbing to her ailments. Hershel comes to escort Beth to Heaven and Carol lovingly puts a knife in Beth's temple à la Tyrese so she won't turn.

Okay that last part was just my wishful thinking.

Edited October 28, 2014 by PunkyMouse

[AngelaHunter]

Tyrese, of course, was pulling his typical Dale face

 

True! My patience with him standing around staring, eyes swimming in tears is wearing pretty thin. Yeah, Tyeese will kill walkers but it seems the only time he will is if they're actually attacking HIM. Otherwise, he'll hold the baby and you're pretty much on your own.

 

One thing I haven't mentioned but truly loved was Carl tapping on his gun while they were hiding from the Termites.

 

Carl is going to be Mad Max when he grows up.

[Constantinople]

It would have been amusing if Rick gave a speech before he macheted Gareth. Something along the lines of

"It's not personal. We would have done this to any cannibals. There is, I admit, a kind of cosmic justice to this after you tried to eat us, and did ate Bob's leg. But we don't do this because we want to, we do this because we have to...because a man's gotta live".
 

I like Gabriel. (I so want to call him Father Gabriel but would that be right? He's dressed like a Roman Catholic priest but are Episcopalian priests called Father? Are they even called priests?]

Yes, yes and yes.

[AngelaHunter]

I have no problem with Rick's overkill. The situation called for it. In fact, I would have been behind him screaming "Keep chopping Baby! Remember Tyrese? Make sure the job is done!"  There'd be none of this Glenn "We're not these people!". Oh STFU and get on the bus and ride far away from my ass if you can't adapt.

 

This x2. I am the  most non-sadistic person I know but I even wish Rick had toyed with Gareth a bit longer, acting as if he believed Gareth when he promised to go and leave them alone. "Pinky swear?" and then "head smash".

[kj4ever]

I don't think Carol is in the woods with Daryl either. I think that it's Daryl and Carol's own personal "No Child Left Behind" plan and Daryl has some random kid from the hospital while Carol stayed behind to nurse Beth who is suffering from the effects of whatever wad done to her by the creepy doctor guy.

Childless Carol gets to mother someone again and motherless Beth is cared for one last time before quietly succumbing to her ailments. Hershel comes to escort Beth to Heaven and Carol lovingly puts a knife in Beth's temple à la Tyrese so she won't turn.

Okay that last part was just my wishful thinking.

Oh Dear God don't let Carol watch anyone anymore - it leads to certain death!

[PunkyMouse]

Oh Dear God don't let Carol watch anyone anymore - it leads to certain death!

Works for me!

[Malaprop cocktail]

I think you're onto something there. Eugene feels safer in a large group and doesn't want to continue on what he knows is a fools errand. Rosita knows the truth, but Abraham is a good soldier who needs to complete his mission so he won't entertain his doubts. 

 

That would explain a lot.

 

I will third this spec. I thought it was really interesting that, when they were all huddled in Fr. Gabriel's office, the camera showed Eugene reading that placard that basically said "maybe don't take advantage of people's stupidity" and looking pretty guilty. I get the feeling his lie maybe spun out of control and he's tried to back away from it a few times but doesn't have the courage to come right out and say it's all a yarn. And Eugene and Rosita have their own doubts, but are afraid to ask for the truth.

Maybe Daryl has the weirdo from the train car who actually escaped and is his second cousin, twice removed? 

 

This is a minor point, but if you mean the tattooed "we're the same!!" guy, we saw him get attacked by a zombie.

[shanndee]

I don't think Carol is in the woods with Daryl either. I think that it's Daryl and Carol's own personal "No Child Left Behind" plan and Daryl has some random kid from the hospital while Carol stayed behind to nurse Beth who is suffering from the effects of whatever wad done to her by the creepy doctor guy.

Childless Carol gets to mother someone again and motherless Beth is cared for one last time before quietly succumbing to her ailments. Hershel comes to escort Beth to Heaven and Carol lovingly puts a knife in Beth's temple à la Tyrese so she won't turn.

Okay that last part was just my wishful thinking.

 

And I'll just wish right along with you!

Aw, geeze, my attempt at trying to not dislike Beth quite so much didn't last long did it?

I fail.