S02.E05: Will

[FormerMod-a1]

Margaret tries to prevent Barbara from fixing her relationship with Fred and Maggie; Bellamy struggles to keep his secret from Maggie; the spread of illness among the returned leads Bellamy to take desperate measures.

[ottoDbusdriver]

Margaret tries to prevent Barbara from fixing her relationship with Fred and Maggie

 

This really is becoming the Bitchy Grandma hour -- who cares about relationship repairs ?  Absolutely no one.  

 

How about some explanations about the Resurrected ?

 

Bellamy struggles to keep his secret from Maggie

 

Unless he comes down with the same affliction as the rest of the Resurrected (and someone figures it out), Bellamy doesn't have to tell anyone that he's a Resurrected -- so what the hell is he struggling with ?  Guilty conscience because he's lying to Maggie ?  Oh boo-hoo, it's not like they're dating or he's banging her -- he's crashing on her couch.  And since he's now on the payroll of some mystery arm of the government, why doesn't he have his ow place yet.  This show is quickly turning into a daytime soap opera (and not in a good way).

 

ETA:

the spread of illness among the returned leads Bellamy to take desperate measures.

 

What's the big deal if the Resurrected get sick and die ?  They'll just come back again anyway. If whatever the disease they have can be passed onto the living, then that's a different story.

Edited October 25, 2014 by ottoDbusdriver

[Tabasco Cat]

It was a little disconcerting that the returned disease was described as a virus and the ones who've got it exhibit some of the same symptoms as Ebola victims. Fever and bleeding from various orifices.

 

So Grandma's secret sauce for getting rid of the Returned is to convince them that nobody wants them around and they should just "let go"? Weak. When she told Barbara she knew the reason why people returned was to be punished, I thought "BS". Carl's brother, Mikey, didn't seem to be suffering from his "punishment" at all prior to getting sick. I guess a bad case of the returnebola is enough to convince them to give up and just let go?

 

In the final scene Marty is really sick and climbs in the back seat of his car to lie down (or maybe wait for someone). Then the previews for next week show him feeling fine and talking to his new boss lady. I usually don't watch the previews for any show, if I can help it, and tonight just reinforced, for me, why I avoid them.

 

Nevertheless, I thought it was an OK episode. Enough to keep me watching for now. I felt really happy for Frederick this episode. It was really quite touching when he told Maggie, "All I know is I'm about to sit down and watch a movie with my wife and daughter." He's gonna be pissed when he finds out what happened. It was also good to see Elaine get a few scenes, even though her character's story has been severely diminished from Season 1.

Edited October 27, 2014 by Tabasco Cat

[possibilities]

It's hard to believe Jacob had a lot of wrongdoings to come back and suffer for. Grandma really is evil.

[LucyEth]

Finally we get an explanation!  Hope we are really rid of deputy's evil brother.

[ottoDbusdriver]

In yet another episode of the Bitchy Grandma hour, where poorly written melodrama prevails, we find out that two days after the dinner party Lucille is only now putting away the glassware first thing on a Sunday morning -- WTF ? I seriously doubt Lucille would let that happen (or Bitchy Grandma for that matter).

 

Bitchy Grandma has yet another stylish outfit -- where does she keep getting them, because that would be really creepy if Henry kept her clothes packed away somewhere in the house for all those years. Apparently Bitchy Grandma is unaware of the existence of telephones (even though she uses one later in the show) because she pops-in to take Fred to breakfast before church only to find Fred with Barbara (and Bitchy Grandma is none too pleased that Fred and Barbara are back together).

 

Bitchy Grandma really is bitchy and judgmental when it comes to Barbara.  And has mad ninja skills the way she snuck up on Barbara on the porch (in yet another stylish dress).  And then drags Barbara out into a cemetery and decides to get all preachy -- "oh heavens, the shame of it all, we're being punished for our sins" nonsense -- and put the guilt whammy on her.

 

That was the big secret -- you have want to 'let go'.  What a pile of horseshit !!  And who exactly is the judge in the let-go-a-thon for the Resurrected ?  Oh, they've let go enough, it's time for the recall.  Is this some sort of ABC crossover with Elsa from Frozen on OUAT and it's going to turn into a musical (for a ratings boost) just so they can sing 'Let It Go' at some point.  Did Caleb Richards also disappear because he let go -- I don't think so.  Was Arthur Holmes also being punished and needed to let go ?  This is such a lameass explanation.

 

Still don't give two shits about Pastor Tom and Rachel.  Yeah, yeah, she's sick -- go ahead and die already because unless she "lets go" she'll be back with the baby.

 

 

 

In the final scene Marty is really sick and climbs in the back seat of his car to lie down (or maybe wait for someone). Then the previews for next week show him feeling fine and talking to his new boss lady. I usually don't watch the previews for any show, if I can help it, and tonight just reinforced, for me, why I avoid them.

 

That was the stupidest thing to include in the previews -- I guess it prevents the promo monkeys from teasing the question if Marty will survive or not.

 

Question about the bar -- when Elaine sits down with Barbara, she was working at the bar but sat down since the place was almost empty.  When Maggie shows up (did Elaine call and leave that message, they never really did answer that), the bar is packed.  Why wasn't Elaine working ?

 

So Bellamy's big decision was to leave to meet to Boss lady -- that was the 'desperate measures' in the episode description.  He called her about the virus.  Why does he need to see her in person ? Is he going to get her to give him the cure (Zmap for Resurrected) ?

Edited October 27, 2014 by ottoDbusdriver

[Blue Plastic]

Well, it's nice that they gave us the secret to getting rid of the "demons" but lame that it's just convincing them to "let go."  Surely not everyone will be as susceptible to Bitchy Grandma's forked tongue as stupid Barbara was or be as liable to decide to "let go" on their own.  Why is it that Lucille and Barbara in particular are/were so willing to just do whatever Bitchy Grandma tells them to?  That's getting old.  It's too late for Barbara but would be nice to see Lucille get a backbone.  I hope Bitchy Grandma is not going to decide Jacob needs to be talked into "letting go."  She doesn't seem to have much regard for anyone but herself and the factory.

 

The mystery government woman always makes me think of the character Mirage from The Incredibles for some reason.

 

I too noticed how Elaine said it was "dead" at the restaurant and she could sit with Barbara but by the time Maggie got there, the joint was hopping and Elaine was still sitting there.

 

Interesting how this "flu" takes over and instantly gives its victims Ebola symptoms.  I wonder if they did that on purpose?  I wonder when they filmed this in relation to when the first US-diagnosed victims started popping up?

[Tabasco Cat]

Interesting how this "flu" takes over and instantly gives its victims Ebola symptoms.  I wonder if they did that on purpose?  I wonder when they filmed this in relation to when the first US-diagnosed victims started popping up?

 

Coincidence, I think, but you never know. The major Ebola outbreak in west Africa really got going back in March. I don't know the exact dates Resurrection S2 was filmed, but they must have started late spring, maybe early summer. The guy in Texas who eventually died from it showed up at the hospital in the last week of September, so the scripts for the first part of the season - maybe the whole season - would have been finished long before then. Maybe it was just the cheap and easy way to convey the idea that someone is really, really sick by having blood coming out of their ears, noses and mouths. On the other hand, there aren't too many known viruses out there that will make that happen.

[Sammich63]

I want to know how Bitchy Grandma is getting around town.  Is she taking the family car?  Nobody ever notices her missing, and she leaves sometimes in the middle of the night, like she did when she visited the factory.  I'm beginning to think she's flying around like a vampire or witch.  Jacob has also disappeared at various times, so I wonder if he's walking these distances.  Also, where was Barbara's SO during her scenes with Maggie and the sheriff?  I find it hard to believe that he just let Barbara leave on her own accord to reunite with her husband, and how does she get around town?  This must be a very small town to allow so many people to get around on foot.

[iMonrey]

 

I want to know how Bitchy Grandma is getting around town.  Is she taking the family car?

 

Henry did say she shouldn't be driving around because she doesn't have a license but she said she's been driving since she was 14 so yes, I guess she's borrowing the car.

 

I thought it was kind of neat how Margaret made Barbara disappear, but afterwards when you start to pick it apart it doesn't make much sense. And she must be lying about the returned having been resurrected to be punished, because what could Jacob have done to deserve punishing? How rotten a kid was he before he died? So again, this just reinforced my opinion that the writers have no real idea where to go with this.

[Spencer Hastings]

Surely not everyone will be as susceptible to Bitchy Grandma's forked tongue as stupid Barbara was or be as liable to decide to "let go" on their own. Why is it that Lucille and Barbara in particular are/were so willing to just do whatever Bitchy Grandma tells them to? That's getting old. It's too late for Barbara but would be nice to see Lucille get a backbone.

My first thought was "I can't believe Barbara is stupid enough to fall for this. She should know how to handle this bitch by now."

But then I remembered that Elaine said earlier that Barbara is just a kid. Younger than Maggie. If she and Fred were together as teenagers and she died when Maggie was a baby then she couldn't have been much older than 21-22. She was young, confused, and impressionable. Anything Margaret said to her would have struck a nerve, especially since some of it was true upon her return. Also, I can imagine that Margaret said many nasty things to her during their first lives and this was probably just business as usual because for them, no time has passed at all. Just like when she told Fred that they attended that concert three years ago and Fred said "No, you did." Her relationship with Margaret is still fresh and current, whereas Lucille should have had many years to get over it and realize what a controlling bitch her mother-in-law was before she died. Lucille also had many years to grow without her sniffing down her neck and to grow a backbone. Barbara did not.

It would have been interesting to see her come back with postpartum depression and have that play into her return and disappearance. I always figured that she was unhappy after having Maggie and that it played into her affair. Postpartum when your baby is 30 would have been a good angle. We all know that the writers didn't plan that far though.

[dialyn]

 

And she must be lying about the returned having been resurrected to be punished, because what could Jacob have done to deserve punishing?

I'm thinking it could be that it's not something they necessarily actually did but something they feel guilty about (Jacob felt he should have saved Barbara). 

 

Frankly, I don't buy any explanation the grandmother comes up with.  That whole idea that convincing the Returned aren't wanted will make them go away doesn't really make any sense at all -- certainly not when some of them disappear without dying and then reappear (they regain the will to live in the ether?), and there was a whole plot line (apparently abandoned now  along with Maggie's friend) about how the samples from the Returned also disappeared (how would that relate to the will to live?).   I also don't buy the idea they come back in order to be punished (in some cases, the living seem more punished than the Returned).  Frankly, the more everyone is manipulated by the grandmother, the more like a soap opera this whole thing is getting.  Disappearing is the writers' way of sending someone up a stairway and not have them come back down again unless they are needed for a plot convenience. 

[methodwriter85]

Where does Bitchy Grandma find all these 1950's vintage dresses in mint condition to wear? Did the Langstons just archive all her old clothing in a museum or something? I kinda wish that Bitchy Grandma had been one of those older ladies who tried to keep up au currant, because then we could've seen her in some Dynasty-type stuff.

 

They get rid of Barbara just when I was getting interested in her. Of course. Poor Maggie.

Edited October 27, 2014 by methodwriter85

[Blue Plastic]

But then I remembered that Elaine said earlier that Barbara is just a kid. Younger than Maggie. If she and Fred were together as teenagers and she died when Maggie was a baby then she couldn't have been much older than 21-22. She was young, confused, and impressionable. Anything Margaret said to her would have struck a nerve, especially since some of it was true upon her return. Also, I can imagine that Margaret said many nasty things to her during their first lives and this was probably just business as usual because for them, no time has passed at all. Just like when she told Fred that they attended that concert three years ago and Fred said "No, you did." Her relationship with Margaret is still fresh and current, whereas Lucille should have had many years to get over it and realize what a controlling bitch her mother-in-law was before she died. Lucille also had many years to grow without her sniffing down her neck and to grow a backbone. Barbara did not.

I guess I'll have to fanwank that Barbara was already suffering from depression and then Bitchy Grandma's mean words pushed her over the edge into a suicidality of sorts.  I see what you're saying and it makes sense that Barbara is a lot younger and more impressionable than Lucille should be, but to be SO impressionable that when some mean old woman says "well you might as well die"...  I had a little bit of a hard time swallowing that.  Especially since the guilt didn't seem to be overwhelming Barbara THAT much otherwise.  She didn't make much of an effort to come see Maggie.  She wasn't afraid to come to the dinner party.  She wasn't afraid to waltz back into Frank's life and seemed to expect him and Maggie to pretty much just take her back.  She apparently wasn't that afraid of Bitchy Grandma (BG) in their first lives because she ended up marrying Frank against BG's wishes and then had an affair, knowing that it would probably eventually bring BG's wrath.

 

Besides, Bitchy Grandma's supposed theory makes no sense.  The Returned have come back so they can be "punished," which basically means "die again"?  They were already dead.  If dying is punishment, then they already had it.  Dying by drowning in a raging river was probably a lot harder way to go than quietly disappearing from a park bench.  So Bitchy Grandma can just shut up.  Why does everybody take her so seriously?  Lucille definitely has no excuse.  I used to like Lucille.

...and there was a whole plot line (apparently abandoned now  along with Maggie's friend) about how the samples from the Returned also disappeared (how would that relate to the will to live?).

Even the bloodstains on the pillow that the flu-bola stricken evil brother had been lying on disappeared.  Somehow losing the will to live causes every molecule of their current body to disappear into the ether.  I'm still interested but I'm afraid all the loose ends and the retooling from season 1 finale to season 2 premiere signal that the writers don't really know where they're going.  I hate that.

[Spencer Hastings]

She apparently wasn't that afraid of Bitchy Grandma (BG) in their first lives because she ended up marrying Frank against BG's wishes and then had an affair, knowing that it would probably eventually bring BG's wrath.

 

Right, that's the only thing that doesn't make sense to me.  I don't even know why she left the porch with BG, as she appeared afraid of her.  But not afraid enough to annoy her by marrying Fred.  BG is a scary lady, but I'm basing that on the audience's knowledge of her being a demon child!

 

I don't understand why all molecular traces of the disappeared are vanishing.  I certainly hope Maggie took some pictures with her mother this time around.  

[KaveDweller]

I don't understand why all molecular traces of the disappeared are vanishing.

 

I guess if their body disappears and the universe knows the blood and whatever else comes from the body? Like it's attached.  I feel like there's some other book/movie where something like that happens and I can't remember which one.

 

 

 

certainly not when some of them disappear without dying and then reappear

 

Did someone disappear and then reappear?  I don't remember that.  I thought the only ones who actually disappeared were Elaine's father and that guy that BG went to talk to at the clinic.

Edited October 28, 2014 by KaveDweller

[dialyn]

 

I guess if their body disappears and the universe knows the blood and whatever else comes from the body? Like it's attached.  I feel like there's some other book/movie where something like that happens and I can't remember which one.

 

 

 

 

Did someone disappear and then reappear?  I don't remember that.  I thought the only ones who actually disappeared were Elaine's father and that guy that BG went to talk to at the clinic.

I could be wrong but  I thought that's what happened with the pastor's girlfriend (the one that's pregnant).  She appeared, she disappeared, she reappeared.....was she killed a second time?  Apologies ahead if I mixed things up (it wouldn't be the first time).

[Fable]

I think the writers do have this in hand and are doling out information in small bits.  I prefer smaller reveals, and I feel like this show is delivering.  It's too bad the ratings are dropping and it looks a cancellation is coming, but I don't think this show should have gone past 3 seasons even with great ratings.  You can only sell a story for so long, and I'd rather a show had idea of where they wanted to go and ended it there. 

 

I liked this episode, and I'm glad we at least understand why the Returned are disappearing (see ya Mikey) and I appreciate we are starting to get an explanation of why they came back, if Bitch Grandma is to be believed.

[KaveDweller]

I could be wrong but  I thought that's what happened with the pastor's girlfriend (the one that's pregnant).  She appeared, she disappeared, she reappeared.....was she killed a second time?  Apologies ahead if I mixed things up (it wouldn't be the first time).

 

She actually died a second time, she was shot, and then she came back.  They actually had a creepy scene where she went to look at the dead body from the first time she was resurrected.

 

The others just vanished without leaving a body.

[dialyn]

She actually died a second time, she was shot, and then she came back.  They actually had a creepy scene where she went to look at the dead body from the first time she was resurrected.

 

The others just vanished without leaving a body.

That's right.  I forgot. Thank you for clarifying that for me.  I got muddled. 

[Spencer Hastings]

I was rewatching and wondered about Grandma Langston as a girl.  If the factory belongs to the Langston family, why was Grandma hanging around as a young girl?  Is it HER family factory and they changed the name to Langston later on or did she marry into it?  Did she keep her maiden name and make Grandpa Langston change his last name (who could blame him)?

Edited October 28, 2014 by Spencer Hastings

[anstar]

because what could Jacob have done to deserve punishing? How rotten a kid was he before he died?

There was that dead bird scene that had me wondering about Jacob, actually.  Lucille asked him if he'd killed the bird and when he said no, she grabbed him (I think) and said, "Don't lie to me!"  Where did that come from?  At the time I remember wondering if the writers were trying to say that she was worried he'd come back 'wrong' (ala Pet Semetary) or if it was something she'd caught him doing before and was afraid was back again.  One other time that Jacob's behavior bothered me was when he deliberately pushed one of his mother's "good" coffee cups onto the floor to shatter because he didn't get his way about something. He immediately apologized and said it was an accident.  It was most definitely not an accident though, and his mom knew it.  She sent him out of the room.  Sometimes she seems a little afraid of him, and that's perfectly normal; again ala Pet Semetary, but I still wonder if he maybe wasn't the angelic little boy they remember.

 

None of that is to say I necessarily believe Grandma Langston is telling the truth about the Returned. She could be lying through her teeth, or she could be totally wrong but sincere in her belief that punishment is the reason.

Edited October 28, 2014 by anstar

[marcee]

The mystery government woman always makes me think of the character Mirage from The Incredibles for some reason.

FWIW, Mirage was voiced by Elizabeth Pena who just passed away earlier this month. Interestingly, Donna Murphy (mysterious govt woman) was the voice of Mother Gothel in Tangled.

[CocoaGoddess]

Well that was extremely disappointing. I have been one of more vocal supporters of this show, and Ilked (up until this episode) Bitchy Grandma Langston's presence on this show--but this episode was just too much and too ridiculous. Like others, I was looking forward to learning more about Barbara, why she had the affair, and why she avoided her family all this time. And also, why/how she fell into the river in the first place. I don't mind character development, caring for these characters, and going along on the journey with them, but this latest turn of events is just too hard to grasp.  Poor Maggie. Poor dissociative identity disordered Sheriff. Poor us, that this explanation for the spontaneously disappearing Returned is now canon, and we just have to shut up and deal with it. 

 

This is really hackneyed. Babies and toddlers have to come back to atone for their sins too, I suppose. Showrunners, you better fix this nonsense and fix it fast.

 

From the previews, it looks like all of that discussion about what era the Black family came from will be revealed, and it looks like many of us were right about that particular plot. 

[theatremouse]

There was that dead bird scene that had me wondering about Jacob, actually.  Lucille asked him if he'd killed the bird and when he said no, she grabbed him (I think) and said, "Don't lie to me!"  Where did that come from?

I'm not super familiar with Pet Cemetary, but I think any parents seeing their child doing anything with a small dead animal has reason to freak out. Even if you ignore the he's resurrected bit, killing small animals can be a precursor to some very creepy not good shit. So if she thought he was killing birds and then playing with them, supernatural child or not, she had reason to worry he's an about-to-be serial killer. I didn't even really see the yelling as OTT. Sometimes even if you don't think someone's lying, if you accuse them of it, you get a better sense of whether maybe they are (by making them lie twice).

 

 

I was looking forward to learning more about Barbara, why she had the affair, and why she avoided her family all this time. And also, why/how she fell into the river in the first place.

Didn't they pretty much confirm way back in the day (or if not confirm, strongly imply) she killed herself? I didn't think that was still a question. That's why it was so easy for her to give up, and why she felt so guilty when Jacob apologized for not saving her. And why she basically took it when Lucille let her have it. She went to the river to commit suicide, under circumstances when she knew Sam would show up, so the baby wouldn't go unfound, but by bad coincidence Jacob found her first and died too in the process. So she's like guilt-a-palooza because she knew she did kinda kill him.

Edited October 28, 2014 by theatremouse

[Spencer Hastings]

 

Didn't they pretty much confirm way back in the day (or if not confirm, strongly imply) she killed herself? I didn't think that was still a question. That's why it was so easy for her to give up, and why she felt so guilty when Jacob apologized for not saving her. And why she basically took it when Lucille let her have it. She went to the river to commit suicide, under circumstances when she knew Sam would show up, so the baby wouldn't go unfound, but by bad coincidence Jacob found her first and died too in the process. So she's like guilt-a-palooza because she knew she did kinda kill him.

They confirmed that Rachel killed herself by driving her car off of a bridge but I don't think they ever implied that Barbara killed herself.  That would go with my postpartum theory though.  I always just fanwanked that her boyfriend pushed her in or Fred did when he found her (which wasn't a jump with last season's Fred).

[KaveDweller]

I always just fanwanked that her boyfriend pushed her in or Fred did when he found her (which wasn't a jump with last season's Fred).

 

If her boyfriend pushed her I don't think she would have run to his place when she first returned.  Unless she didn't know he pushed her.  But didn't he tell Maggie that he waited with her until he knew someone was coming? That doesn't seem like the actions of a killer.

 

I think she really just fell in.  She was down there to meet her boyfriend, walking at the edge, and slipped.

[chlban]

Yes, I don't recall any hint of Barbara comiitting suicide. That was Rachel who I really wish they had die again because I hate her character and that whole plotline with Tom and his wife. I also don't think the BF killed her. It was pretty clear she fell in andJacob died trying to save her. 

 

That is why the idea of her just "letting go" because BG told her to is absurd. Rachel would make sense, she tried to kill herself already and the reason for that was never really clear either. But Barbara is not realistic.

 

I did catch that line from Marty in the previews about dying in 1934, which does mean that the African American family that drowned is obviously his. But, if he died in 1934 as a child, how is he an adult in 2014? If they age nornally after returning he'd be dead or ancient. Yet he aged enough to go from being a kid to an approximately 40 year old man? Then what,, he just stopped aging?  

I really want this show to get better, it has so much potential, if only that it has some very good actors, excluding the one that plays Maggie. It also has a fascinating premise, but like so many of these types of shows it is all over the place.

 

At least so far there is no hint of Space Aliens, so I am sticking it out. 

 

 

 

[Blue Plastic]

Yes, I don't recall any hint of Barbara comiitting suicide. That was Rachel who I really wish they had die again because I hate her character and that whole plotline with Tom and his wife. I also don't think the BF killed her. It was pretty clear she fell in and Jacob died trying to save her. 

 

That is why the idea of her just "letting go" because BG told her to is absurd. Rachel would make sense, she tried to kill herself already and the reason for that was never really clear either. But Barbara is not realistic.

 

I did catch that line from Marty in the previews about dying in 1934, which does mean that the African American family that drowned is obviously his. But, if he died in 1934 as a child, how is he an adult in 2014? If they age nornally after returning he'd be dead or ancient. Yet he aged enough to go from being a kid to an approximately 40 year old man? Then what,, he just stopped aging?  

I really want this show to get better, it has so much potential, if only that it has some very good actors, excluding the one that plays Maggie. It also has a fascinating premise, but like so many of these types of shows it is all over the place.

 

At least so far there is no hint of Space Aliens, so I am sticking it out. 

I didn't get the impression that Barbara committed suicide.  Like you said, I thought she just stupidly fell into the river while waiting for Sam.  They have definitely confirmed that Rachel committed suicide.  I think it would be a tough sell to get Barbara to "let go" because she never seemed all that guilt ridden to me or like she even cared that much about anything in particular, what little they showed of her.

 

I'm not buying Bitchy Grandma's claim that the Returned are there to be punished.  I'm not taking that as canon until they really come out and say so.  She's an unreliable source who bends the truth for her own purposes.

 

I don't think they've ever given any hint that Jacob is bad.  I guess they could put that in as a surprise twist, but a child who would die trying to save his aunt doesn't seem likely to also be a psychopath who goes around killing birds until he can work up to bigger prey.  IMO it would be totally changing his character to do this.  They also showed a dead bird lying around the Langston factory in the previous episode I think.  Unless Jacob has been hanging around by himself at the factory, which I guess is possible, I don't think he had anything to do with that one.

 

I assume that if Bellamy

died as a baby in 1934, he didn't Return until approximately 1974 or something like that.  That's why he's the age he is now.  Or else he's been killed multiple times and doesn't remember it, and he finally managed to live long enough to make it to approximately age 40 in 2014.

Edited October 28, 2014 by Blue Plastic

[KaveDweller]

I'm not buying Bitchy Grandma's claim that the Returned are there to be punished.  I'm not taking that as canon until they really come out and say so.  She's an unreliable source who bends the truth for her own purposes.

 

I think she was just lying about that to get Barbara to "let go" and will herself to disappear.  Who would want to stay if they think they're there to be punished?

[Fable]

I think she was just lying about that to get Barbara to "let go" and will herself to disappear.  Who would want to stay if they think they're there to be punished

 

So what if she was lying?  She obviously knew enough to get her to vanish.  Grandma knows a lot more than she is saying.  I don't really trust her, but she is clearly credible about some things.  I just want to know how she knows what she knows and what her role is in all of this.

Edited October 29, 2014 by Fable

[chlban]

So what if she was lying?  She obviously knew enough to get her to vanish.  Grandma knows a lot more than she is saying.  I don't really trust her, but she is clearly credible about some things.  I just want to know how she knows what she knows and what her role is in all of this.

I am a little surprised the ratings are tanking so badly now because, as I have said before, even though it's difficult not to totally hate BG she is,

IMO, the most interesting character they have come up with. I do want to know what  she really knows and what part she played in the returns that took place im the 30's.

Bellamy might get more interesting now that we start to see some of this backstory that was previously only fan speculation.

 

Still wish they would just let Rachel disappear and take Tom and his wife wih her.

[iMonrey]

Of course I don't know, but I suspect they originally hinted around that maybe Fred killed Barbara, because she was having an affair, then later changed their minds.

[Spencer Hastings]

Of course I don't know, but I suspect they originally hinted around that maybe Fred killed Barbara, because she was having an affair, then later changed their minds.

That's what I thought last season, which is why she was afraid of him and wasn't rushing to go see him. I think they changed their minds on a lot of things though. 

Edited October 29, 2014 by Spencer Hastings

[theatremouse]

I think they changed their minds on a lot of things though.

All the things, practically, except who's related, and who's boring. Alas, those have stayed the same.

[KaveDweller]

So what if she was lying?  She obviously knew enough to get her to vanish.  Grandma knows a lot more than she is saying.  I don't really trust her, but she is clearly credible about some things.  I just want to know how she knows what she knows and what her role is in all of this.

 

Oh, I agree she knows more than she is saying.  I don't trust a thing she says though.

[shapeshifter]

The scenes with the deputy and his evil brother were so reminiscent of the TV series Fargo that aired recently, that I wondered if it was an inspiration.

...It was really quite touching when he told Maggie, "All I know is I'm about to sit down and watch a movie with my wife and daughter." He's gonna be pissed when he finds out what happened.

So Evil, Murderous, Sociopathic, Bitchy Grandma just ripped out her son's heart in the very way she predicted Barbara would (by disappearing Barbara), and you just know Bitchy Grandma is going to still blame it on Barbara.

OT: Tabasco Cat, were you a Roswell fan?

...I did catch that line from Marty in the previews about dying in 1934, which does mean that the African American family that drowned is obviously his. But, if he died in 1934 as a child, how is he an adult in 2014? If they age nornally after returning he'd be dead or ancient. Yet he aged enough to go from being a kid to an approximately 40 year old man? Then what,, he just stopped aging?...

I think he just didn't return for 32 years or so. Right? They said last season he was adopted.

So is he letting himself die in the car as an experiment?

I didn't get the impression that Barbara committed suicide. Like you said, I thought she just stupidly fell into the river while waiting for Sam....

They seemed to be implying it was an accident, but now I'm wondering if it was somewhere between an accident and suicide. Like maybe she was leaning out over the water, wondering what it would be like to die, feeling guilty and ashamed, thinking maybe it would be better for everyone if she was dead, and then...whoops! She falls in. Edited October 30, 2014 by shapeshifter

[anstar]

but I think any parents seeing their child doing anything with a small dead animal has reason to freak out.

Agreed, but the freak out, for me would be not be, OMG my kid is a serial killer in training.  It would be, OMG, that is disgusting and possibly diseased, don't touch it! I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that my kid had killed it, not without good reason.

[Aging Goth]

I got the feeling that she was murdered and I wouldn't put it pass BG

[Angeltoes]

I hope they don't make Jacob out to be some serial killer in training. I think he's one of the cutest kids on TV.

[shapeshifter]

I got the feeling that she was murdered and I wouldn't put it pass BG

Interesting twist, but how? Maybe BG threw a puppy in the river so Barbara would try to save it?

[KaveDweller]

BG died before Barbara so I don't think she could have murdered her.  Unless she returned, killed Barbara, died again, then didn't return for another 30 years.

[Latverian Diplomat]

It was a little disconcerting that the returned disease was described as a virus and the ones who've got it exhibit some of the same symptoms as Ebola victims. Fever and bleeding from various orifices.

 

Fever and coughing up blood thing are go-to TV symptoms, because they are alarming without being too gross, and easy to fake.

 

You won't see vomiting or diarrhea even though those are dangerous symptoms of many diseases, including Ebola.

 

I don't think they've ever given any hint that Jacob is bad.  I guess they could put that in as a surprise twist, but a child who would die trying to save his aunt doesn't seem likely to also be a psychopath who goes around killing birds until he can work up to bigger prey.  IMO it would be totally changing his character to do this.  They also showed a dead bird lying around the Langston factory in the previous episode I think.  Unless Jacob has been hanging around by himself at the factory, which I guess is possible, I don't think he had anything to do with that one.

 

So we the audience are supposed to suspect that the birds are dying because of the Returned, like the cicadas (or whatever those were) in the season 1 finale? Some sort of unconscious, life force sucking thing?

 

I don't think Jake's mom will tell Bellamy about the birds, even though that's a piece of the puzzle he could use. I feel like one of the problems with this season is that not only is the exploration of the mystery not proceeding very much, but the ability of people to work together on it is also falling apart. Everybody has their own complication or agenda now, and trust is breaking down. Bellamy was the nexus, now he spends a lot of time worrying about his own thing and acting "off" towards the others.

Edited October 30, 2014 by Latverian Diplomat

[Blue Plastic]

I don't think Jake's mom will tell Bellamy about the birds, even though that's a piece of the puzzle he could use. I feel like one of the problems with this season is that not only is the exploration of the mystery not proceeding very much, but the ability of people to work together on it is also falling apart. Everybody has their own complication or agenda now, and trust is breaking down. Bellamy was the nexus, now he spends a lot of time worrying about his own thing and acting "off" towards the others.

So agree with this!  Last season, Bellamy was practically part of the nuclear Langston family - Henry, Lucille, Jacob, and Bellamy.  He was very likely to know whatever was going on with Jacob and wanted to help them but also use the info to figure out what was going on.  Now he's almost totally isolated.  He barely sees the Langstons anymore.  Lucille doesn't seem to think of him as someone to trust and come to when there are problems anymore, like she did last season. She just listens to Bitchy Grandma, who is really not interested in helping Jacob but Lucille doesn't seem to realize that.  After this episode, I guess he will be even MORE isolated since he won't be at Maggie's anymore.

 

Maybe a bird dies every time a Returned human comes back?  There should have been an awful lot of dead birds in the season 1 finale though!

 

Last season I had thought maybe Barbara was murdered and definitely suspected Big Nose (Frank), but this season they seem to have dropped that and softened Frank up quite a bit.

[picklesprite]

I feel like a Returned, myself. I gave up on this show by the second ep, but decided to give it a try a couple of episodes ago, and now all is forgiven, and I am hooked. Apparently, I have lost all desire for logic, because I don't seem to care about all the things that don't make sense. Maybe I have a virus! Or maybe I have watched too much "Scandal." I do still wish this show had a sense of humor; some very dry, macabre jokes would be nice. Oh, well.

 

I didn't believe for a second the grandma's story about people coming back to pay for their sins. That was just her wicked little way of getting to Barbara in her most vulnerable spot. Grandma will say anything to anybody to get what she wants.

 

The little boy seems to have taken on a nasty wicked edge while I've been gone.

 

I'll just be over here in the corner enjoying myself, having abandoned all critical thinking.

[jhlipton]

Didn't they pretty much confirm way back in the day (or if not confirm, strongly imply) she killed herself?

 

IIRC, Jacob said something about a third person being there.  They might have retconned that though.

I think BG reached out through the aether to drown Barbara (and I agree -- they got rid of her just as she was getting interesting.

[Tabasco Cat]

IIRC, Jacob said something about a third person being there.  They might have retconned that though.

 

Rachel, Pastor Tom's former squeeze, was the one who drove off a bridge on purpose. I don't think the writers have hinted that Barbara committed suicide.

 

Sam and Barbara had a rendezvous at the river, Barbara brought Maggie along in a stroller (she was an infant), and something happened where Barbara ended up in the river. We don't know how that happened exactly, but Jacob went out on the fallen tree trunk to try and save her and then fell in himself. Until Jacob returned to tell that story, the town, for 32 years, thought it was the other way around. Sam, the guy Barbara was having an affair with (and with whom Barbara went to live with after she returned), told Maggie last season (paraphrasing), "I waited there until I was sure you were safe". The person Jacob remembers was probably Sam hiding in the bushes or behind a tree waiting for someone to wander by and find the baby all by herself in her stroller on the riverbank.

[bilgistic]

I was rewatching and wondered about Grandma Langston as a girl. If the factory belongs to the Langston family, why was Grandma hanging around as a young girl? Is it HER family factory and they changed the name to Langston later on or did she marry into it? Did she keep her maiden name and make Grandpa Langston change his last name (who could blame him)?

Grandma Langston is a Langston by birth. Her sons are Henry (I think that's his name--Lucille's husband/Jacob's dad/Red from That 70's Show) and the sheriff. Her father, then maybe husband(?), then Henry ran the factory, but shut it down sometime after Jacob died. Edited November 2, 2014 by bilgistic

[theatremouse]

Grandma Langston is a Langston by birth. Her sons are Henry (I think that's his name--Lucille's husband/Jacob's dad/Red from That 70's Show) and the sheriff. Her father, then maybe husband(?), then Henry ran the factory, but shut it down sometime after Jacob died.

Right, the lineage has been made clear. What's not clear is if she were some early feminist, both keeping her surname when marrying and giving it to her sons, or if she were never married and grandpa were never part of the picture, thus of course they're all Langstons, or if she happened to marry a cousin of some sort, or non-relative also named Langston, or what. Else her maiden name normally would not be the surname of her sons and their children.

[Tabasco Cat]

I don't understand why people think Margaret's maiden name was Langston. Her father was a foreman at the factory named Anderson. Fred mentioned "Grandpa Anderson" at one point, that would be Margaret's father. She grew up around the factory and eventually married a Langston (who would be Henry and Fred's father). There has been nothing shown to indicate she was born a Langston.