S29.E05: Blood Is Blood

[Wandering Snark]

Brilliant.  But after the weigh-in, they have to walk down the beach modelling the clothing that doesn't fit them anymore.

    

    Thus, The Biggest Survivor Loser Runway.

If they do it while singing, it becomes a the Biggest Survivor Loser Runway Idol.

 

Add in a food reward made by the other contestants and it could be Biggest Survivor Loser Top Runway Idol Chef.

[KimberStormer]

I've figured out why I can't remember the tribe names this season--my synaesthesia is not very strong, but it absolutely will not accept "Coyopa" as an orange word, and "Hunahpu" as a blue one.  The reverse would be fine.  Literally every time Jeff said "Coyopa" during the challenge I was like, "why are they showing the orange team when he's talking about the blue one?"  In five minutes my brain will return to its default assumption that Hunahpu is orange, as it clearly must be.  This paragraph has been a struggle to write, actually, because I keep thinking "no no, I must be getting this wrong, someone's going to come in and say 'but Coyopa is the blue tribe!', I'd better check on Wikipedia again..."

 

I felt like Jeremy was pretty impressive today working on Alec and I feel like I can finally get behind him a bit more after he turned me off with his "I've got to protect her!" stuff.  Jon and Jaclyn also seemed to be playing thoughtfully, as Tim Gunn might say.  I don't know their reasoning, but I feel like there are several credible thought patterns that have been outlined in this thread and they probably had a good reason.  Of course I'd prefer to see Dale go home, dude is a jerk, and I think Kelley was right that it was pretty much all his fault that she went home.  Sucks to be a superfan who gets screwed by production twists (BvW in and of itself, tribal swap) but I'm used to the skinny blondes going home early despite potential, I am inured to it now.  Probably nobody remembers Laura from Caramoan but me?

 

Personally I still don't really get what there is to dislike about Baylor and I think people are kind of holding Missy's divorces against her in a weird way?  But I don't really care either.  I just wish there was a Cirie or a Parvati or a Kim out there, a woman I could really really root for.  But though I love how bulletproof Baylor seems to be, it never really feels like it's her efforts making the difference (maybe this is editing) and to me the people really actually playing are all dudes (mostly whose names start with J)--Jeremy, Josh, Jon, Keith, probably Wes though we don't get enough Wes and maybe I'm overrating him because his accent is so close to JT's. 

 

And you summarized exactly why I prefer the Dale/Kelley dynamics, and really don't like Baylor/Mom - there's enough manipulation in this game, I don't want to see it between "loved ones", but unfortunately that's exactly what Baylor is doing, and what Missy is enabling, and what I hate about both of these contestants - the moments they are voted out cannot come soon enough for me. 

 

I'd much rather see loved ones manipulate each other than people playing as unbreakable pairs until one gets voted out, when they suddenly start playing individually.  I'm not hating the BvW thing completely, but I am not enjoying it much either.  Survivor is not a team game, I don't want to watch a team game.

[Nashville]

I too am not sure why J/J choose B/M over D/K. I'm not sure how tight Baylor really is with her old tribe mates that are now on NuHunahpu (NuPu?).

Because crazy and strategic tend to be mutually exclusive. Pick the crazies, and they're going to be too mentally scattered to plot against you effectively. :)

[Pallas]

The penalty meted out to the blue tribe in exchange for rice: Survivor Shark Tank.  

[Pattycake2]

i'm still on the Hunahpa will have to give up a tribe member to Coyopa as payment for the rice train.  And it will be Josh, thus saving Reed/Josh from a couples elimination.   Guess we'll see!

 

Having now seen the promos, I see that I'm completely wrong.  Back to the drawing board!

[dolphincorn]

 

If they do it while singing, it becomes a the Biggest Survivor Loser Runway Idol.

 

And if the winner immediately fades into obscurity, they can call it America's Next Top Biggest Survivor Loser Runway Idol.

[K2DangerGirl]

I found it a little odd how Baylor stood by drooling, while Jon and Jaqueline kissed.

I interpreted her reaction and comments as more "You two need to get a room but I'm not going to SAY that, because SURVIVOR."

Sorry, I know she has a name but the screenshot of her always says "John's girlfriend." Sexist--ass show.

To be fair, everyone is identified by their connection to their loved one.

[Tryangle]

I felt like Jeremy was pretty impressive today working on Alec and I feel like I can finally get behind him a bit more after he turned me off with his "I've got to protect her!" stuff.

 

I think, as others here (and I think Probst last episode) have suggested before, the freedom of not having a loved one to be concerned about can be a blessing. You can focus solely on your own progress in the game. You can already see Jeremy, Natalie (and to a lesser extent, Julie) being able to strategise better.

[scowl]

Yes, and I'd like to add Sierra from Tocantins. I remember people on her tribe having issues with her as well, and I had a hard time understanding why.

 

We found out after the season that Sierra drove people nuts by constantly talking about her successful modeling career, the many cities she's lived in around the world, and showing little interest in other people's less interesting lives. The producers chose to give her a "hero" edit and leave out this dynamic. After all it was insignificant compared to how Coach was driving people nuts.

 

Since Baylor seems to be getting this kind of edit, I suspect that she is going to be around for a while and we'll find what was going on after the season is over.

[Hera]

I felt like Jeremy was pretty impressive today working on Alec...

Jeremy definitely has the right idea, but I don't have any sense yet if Alec bought it. On the other hand, the fact that there's no immediate need for Alec's vote one way or the other might make Jeremy's case seem more convincing. I think it was Taj in Tocantins who said that you can't wait until the night of Tribal Council to approach people if you want them to feel comfortable with you; you have to establish your relationships early on.

 

From what we've been shown, Jeremy has a good read on Alec and his plan to play to Alec's ego rather than to try to persuade him with appeals to logic is the right approach, but you can never tell. One of the remaining couples might employ the same tactic and if it's someone from the original Coyopa (Josh, Wes, or Baylor post-merge), he may ultimately decide that the shared experience of being on the original Coyopa tribe trumps Jeremy's flattery and his point about singletons vs. couples.

[Way Wes Jr]

One thing about the BvW format is that it makes tribal switches interesting.  Now, the Powers That Be didn’t even try to disguise that they were going to split the tribes up Four Hunahpu to Three Coyopa each.  In a ‘normal’ season this ought to result in a huge advantage for the old Hunahpu’s, as each “new” tribe would just Pagong off the Coyopas.  (This is a theoretical view which minimizes tribal divisions, but is standard best play doctrine.)  But in this format, with its pre-existing partnerships, it really isn’t as cut and dried.

 

New Hunahpu (Still Blue)

Why aren’t the ‘old’ Hunahpu four sitting pretty here?  The tribal split left the allied Jeremy, Natalie, and Julie with an out of the loop Reed.  But Reed has been joined by his partner Josh - and Josh’s two closest allies from Coyopa.  Now it may not shake out this way, and a reasonable amount of time was spent on Jeremy and Natalie trying to “woo” Alec, even though Hunahpu didn’t go to tribal.  (At least Jeremy and Natalie weren’t shown trying to “create their own reality,” a la Drew and the women last episode in regards to Reed.)

 

So who has the advantage heading towards the merge?
1. Josh (C4)  The link to Reed gives him the short term (to the merge,) advantage.  He also has been getting, as part of his narrator edit, the closest thing to a ‘strategic villain’ edit this season has, adding to his merge armor.

 

2. Wes (C1)  Was invisible this episode, but I put him ahead of his alliance mate Josh before, so rankings inertia dictates that I can’t drop him too far.  Also, he can promise Josh/Reed the alliance of Keith - who was allied (enough) with Reed that they voted the same last week.

 

3. Reed (H5)  Surprisingly irrelevant this episode other than bringing up the food trade to Probst.  (And really people, you’re whining about food while you still actually have some?  Players from the first six seasons are just pointing and laughing.)

 

4. Alec (C2)  The lynchpin of these rankings, (but not a power position long term, history is not kind to ‘swing votes,’) if he ends up being persuaded by Jeremy and Natalie to join the singleton side (even though they’re the ones who made him a singleton,) you could almost perfectly flip these rankings upside down.

 

5. Natalie (H3) A short term female challenge asset, that the boys club will underestimate in terms of potential individual immunity prowess.

 

6. Julie (H7) A non-threatening non-entity.  An easy vote out if the top four vote out ...

7. Jeremy (H4)  The perceived leader of the old Hunahpu alliance (I still think Natalie and Kelley held the true power,) and an assumable individual immunity threat.

 

New Coyopa (still Orange)

The more things change, the more things stay the same.  This tribe saw the potential Hunahpu advantage neutralized by there being three pairs.  (And the fact that the singletons vote was irrelevant if two pairs joined against the third or the singleton.  Them including him in a split vote scheme, just makes Keith’s position stronger.)  There are some whacky things going on editing wise with this tribe as well...

 

1. Keith (H1)  Part of the reason he retains top spot is of course his HII, but he ought to be safe to the merge based upon his inclusion in the split vote scheme, and the fact that he is the closest thing to an ally Jon has from the old Hunapu’s on this tribe.

 

2. Jon (H8)  The token penis of the four folk who make up the Pairs alliance, he safe to the merge, for challenge prowess.

 

3. Baylor (C3) The only player on this tribe who has been shown to have any strategy acumen.  (Jon’s get out the singletons plan notwithstanding.) Given what we’ve seen of her mother, (who was allied against Jon previously,) I’ve got to assume that she drove Jon and Jaclyn to join her over Dale and Kelley.  Interviews from the losers have been claiming that Baylor is the least liked person ‘on the island,’ yet she is getting a very favorable edit.  I’m wondering if the editor’s are trying to give us a “plucky heroine” to root for, (and what that says about the charisma / likeability of the endgame players.)

 

4. Jacyln (C5)  Jacyln:Coyopa this episode :: Reed:Hunahpu

5. Missy (H6)  Received her most airtime to date, and it wasn’t particularly flattering.  But she’s in the power alliance and Dale isn’t.

 

6. Dale (C6)  While not getting a ‘villain’ edit, he is getting an “unpleasant, old coot,” edit.  Which made it more so surprising that he wasn’t the one voted off.  I really wonder if the Pairs alliance wanted to get rid of Dale, but they told Keith he would be the third vote for Dale and he went rogue.

 

BYE Kelley (H2)  The entire part of the episode devoted to who would go was focused on your dad.  Who did you decline to blow on the production staff?  But seriously, did Keith go rogue, in revenge for Drew’s ouster?  Or was Drew’s perception that you were a huge threat maybe actually the reality?  You were not inept physically, you are a huge Survivor fan, you were, allegedly, part of the decision making group at the old tribe, ..., pretty much given a choice between you and your father, you were the bigger long-term threat to the Pairs alliance.

[azshadowwalker]

Dale is absolutely going to raise hell in that camp without Kelly there to temper them, so Missy just bought herself at least a week of total misery. He's the type of guy I can see throwing the rice in the fire rather than let his enemies stuff their faces. 

 

You mean a complete and utter asshole?  I agree, Dale is a complete and utter asshole.  And I didn't think much of Kelly trying to make excuses for him, either.  Didn't find that pair any more endearing than Missy and Baylor.

[BC Mama]

I am hoping that the upcoming negotiations involve the tribe having to give up something, and requiring the other tribe to benefit (luxury item, advantage in the next challenge, a member even). I think that it would be interesting if the only way to get more rice would be for them to help out the other team!! 

[blackwing]

I want it to be a truly harsh penalty. Jeff says, "you want rice, you lose a member." They discuss and think that for the good of the tribe one person has to be sacrificed. They all think it means tribal council. Then Jeff says, "Ok, here's how it's going to happen. Draw rocks." I would love to see the pearl clutching and whining from them about how unfair it was.

Not a new concept. In the ancient days people were cruelly sacrificed for the good of the whole. Agamemnon threw his own daughter Iphigenia overboard to quell the storms and the sea. I want to see an unwilling sacrifice.

[BC Mama]

Did anyone else notice how often Jon mentioned how he can trust Jaclyn 100%? I think it would be kinda awesome if she ends up stabbing him in the back. 

[SourK]

I've figured out why I can't remember the tribe names this season--my synaesthesia is not very strong, but it absolutely will not accept "Coyopa" as an orange word, and "Hunahpu" as a blue one.  The reverse would be fine.

 

I wasn't thinking about it that way, but now that I hear you say it, I completely agree.

[Alapaki]

Anyway, I think Jeff/TPTB have to give them more food, to prevent a flurry of quits.  Which might mean in game theory terms, it's the tragedy of the commons: better to just come in and eat like crazy from the start.  They should award them three days of food at a time.

 

 

I believe they've increased the amount of food they've been giving out as the seasons have gone on.  I've joked before that pretty soon they'll just show up on Day one to find Gas Grills at their camps.

 

And I do think TPTB learned their lesson with the Haves vs. Have-Nots season and realized that there's no suspense in watching a starving tried get relentlessly whittled away by a Tribe that's eating well.

[willpwr]

You mean a complete and utter asshole?  I agree, Dale is a complete and utter asshole.  And I didn't think much of Kelly trying to make excuses for him, either.  Didn't find that pair any more endearing than Missy and Baylor.

I could be wrong but I thought she said she agreed with what he was saying but not how he was saying it. I don't see that as an excuse. He had a point when we see the blue tribe begging for food because they were unwise with rationing, he was an asshole in regards to how he was making his point which she pretty much told him when she tried to calm him down. What excuses did she make? I see her relationship with her dad as a lot healthier than Missy and Baylor's but that's just IMHO. I agree that Dale is an asshole and it might help explain why they didn't talk for a few years but I just don't see her enabling him the way Missy enabled Baylor.

 

*In regards to the rice, I can understand how eating bigger portions might help win competitions but unless they know when they are getting more rice I don't think it's wise to make more than they eat and take it for granted/assume they'll just get more. If they're out of rice for even 2 days while they wait I imagine that would do more damage than doing portion control.

Edited October 25, 2014 by willpwr

[choclatechip45]

 

The first few seasons they were coddled?  When people were losing upwards to 40 or 50 lbs.  When there were no endless "rewards" of spas and tons of food to eat like every other day?  When people were living on rats?  And as someone else mentioned up thread, one girl had clumps of hair falling out etc.  When they had to make their own fire until they could bring back their torches from the first tribal council?   Then had to try hard to keep the fires going through rain because flint just wasn't given away to them back then.  Nay, I think old school Survivor was the tougher kind.

It's pretty well known Borneo was coddled because they were afraid of the players quitting. I think Hatch only a lost a couple of pounds. After Borneo the seasons were pretty  harsh. Africa and Amazon had a couple of players hospitalized afterwards with Malaria.

[Nashville]

*In regards to the rice, I can understand how eating bigger portions might help win competitions but unless they know when they are getting more rice I don't think it's wise to make more than they eat and take it for granted/assume they'll just get more. If they're out of rice for even 2 days while they wait I imagine that would do more damage than doing portion control.

Kinda like how a former Marine friend of mine described how the Air Force builds their bases. First thing built? The officer's club. Then the officer's quarters, then the NCO club, etc., etc. - luxury stuff first, until the very LAST thing built is the runways.

Why?

Because if they blow the budget on the other stuff, an airbase can ALWAYS get another Congressional appropriation to finish the runways. :)

[Wings]

It's pretty well known Borneo was coddled because they were afraid of the players quitting. I think Hatch only a lost a couple of pounds. After Borneo the seasons were pretty  harsh. Africa and Amazon had a couple of players hospitalized afterwards with Malaria.

 

Richard lost 30 pounds.

http://www.getbig.com/iview/richardhatch.htm

 

I re watched this season recently and Richard caught sting rays everyday which helped them, and they ate rats.  They really did not have a lot of rice.  Dirk lost so much they were worried.  

Edited October 26, 2014 by wings707

[choclatechip45]

Didn't Hatch imply during his tax trial people were smuggling sandwiches for the contestants?

[Wings]

Didn't Hatch imply during his tax trial people were smuggling sandwiches for the contestants?

 

 

Heard nothing about that.  They all lost a lot of weight so, if true, it could not have been many. 

[Turtle]

Didn't Hatch imply during his tax trial people were smuggling sandwiches for the contestants?

 

Heard nothing about that.  They all lost a lot of weight so, if true, it could not have been many.​

 

 

Responded in the Media thread.  

[NurseGiGi]

Well, I just don't have anyone I care enough about to get behind.  This season has been so meh for me that I will even wait a few days before I watch it.  I'm hoping I can find someone who interests me after the merge.

 

The rice thing bothers me.  If they don't get a severe enough penalty then future contestants will see that they don't need to ration.  On the other hand, I hate to see someone who just got shuffled there to have to pay the price.  My guess is it won't really matter because they'll have a merge soon and those that got shuffled into the other camp (thinking of you, Missy) won't be suffering ANY repercussions.  Life (and Survivor) is rarely fair, though.

Edited October 27, 2014 by NurseGiGi

[Hanahope]

I was wondering if Jon/Jaclyn went with Missy and Baylor thinking that since those two weren't well liked, they would be easier to beat later in the competition, even at F3, if necessary.

[choclatechip45]

 

Heard nothing about that.  They all lost a lot of weight so, if true, it could not have been many.

This is the  link I was talking about http://popwatch.ew.com/2006/01/23/richard_hatch_m/

[Lnmop]

Add in a food reward made by the other contestants and it could be Biggest Survivor Loser Top Runway Idol Chef.

Add one of the Kardashians to the cast and it could be Biggest Survivor Loser Top Runway Idol Chef Kardashian.

[Nashville]

Add one of the Kardashians to the cast and it could be Biggest Survivor Loser Top Runway Idol Chef Kardashian.

Think I'd rather deal with the undead vs. a Kardashian. With a zombie there's only one communicable disease at issue, and you already know what it is.

[Lnmop]

Think I'd rather deal with the undead vs. a Kardashian. With a zombie there's only one communicable disease at issue, and you already know what it is.

Ok, then how about Chef Ramsey?

[LanceM]

I was wondering if Jon/Jaclyn went with Missy and Baylor thinking that since those two weren't well liked, they would be easier to beat later in the competition, even at F3, if necessary.

 

Baylor doesn't seem to be well liked by her old tribemates (though they have all or soon to be voted off) but I have seen no indication that Missy isn't well liked by the others, Dale being the exception of course.