S03.E03: Corto Maltese

[steelyis]

Was it wrong I laughed when Laurel got beat up , and then compounded it by laughing again when she was in the hospital?

 

You are terrible and you should feel bad about yourself. But I will sit right next to you on the way to hell because I literally could not stop myself from bursting out laughing. KC was clearly going for the most pathetic, woe-is-me expression she could manage but could only pull off pathetic. It was so sad, but not the way she intended.

 

Again the show has failed KC by pairing her with an actor who's just as bad an actor as she is. KC needs to play off someone who can help elevate her performance, but instead she gets a flat, uncharismatic dude who looks less dangerous than Roy. I was stunned by how badly their scenes played out. What are tptb thinking with this bullshit?

 

What's worse is the five minutes they spent showing the start of Thea's training was more engaging than everything involving Laurel in this episode. Even though Laurel got beaten so badly she was put in the hospital, Malcolm attacking Thea just enough to drive her to grab a sword was far more harrowing and chilling to watch. Are they really going to have another character's road to badassery be more interesting and compelling than Laurel's again? I can't, people. I just can't.

Edited October 23, 2014 by steelyis

[wonderwall]

Is it just me who thought that Ray didn't know what was on the drive and was surprised to find  these advanced technologies and weapon stuff? 

He definitely did looked surprised. Then he looked all determined and looked like he was saying "Some bastards are going to pay for this" 

 

Edited October 23, 2014 by wonderwall

[statsgirl]

I thought he did know and that was why he was so anxious to have Felicity come and work for him because he knew what was on there and his own tech people couldn't get any stuff from the ruined hard drive and other components.

 

I thought Felicity's reaction to hearing that everything was so badly blown up that he couldn't get anything was a very nice touch.... since it was her idea to blow up Applied Sciences in the first place.

[apinknightmare]

He definitely did looked surprised. Then he squinted, looked determined and looked like he was saying "Some bastards are going to pay for this" 

 

 

His square butt chin is really doing it for me here.

[Chaser]

Corto Maltese: I'm loving Thea and Malcom. There is something about Willa Holland that elevates her scenes. I loved her and Oliver reconnecting. Stephen Amell and Willa Hollard have such good chemistry. I enjoyed Thea and Roy's scenes together - which is new for me as I was only ever lukewarm to them. Malcolm is chewing the scenery and I loved it all. The three amigos was awesome; giving them there own episode was an awesome idea.

 

Felicity/Ray: Felicity has an office and an her own EA. Super Freakin Awesome. After Ray left and she was just standing there looking around was one of my favorite scenes. I noticed BR toned down Ray this episode, totally approved of that. He and Felicity do have chemistry. I still don't see it as romantic though. I liked the scene of everyone calling Felicity at once. Loved her jumping to help Diggle. I see Hidden Agenda with Ray. Evil? Not really. I'm interested in seeing where they take storyline.

 

Laurel and Felicity: I was fine with Felicity's reaction to Laurel and I didn't see it as mean or catty at all. I think it was an honest response to someone who only seems to call only when they need help. The only interaction we have seen between the two is Laurel called up Felicity and asking for something or telling her to do something (She could maybe be given some leeway in the first episode because Sara had just died, but now?) She seems to think Felicity is the Arrow's employee. And since she sees her and Oliver as 'business partners,' she probably thinks Felicity is her resource too. 

 

Team Arrow: I MISS TEAM ARROW. As much as I enjoyed the boy bonding time and Felicity stretching her wings, I need my Team Arrow back. 

 

Oliver/Felicity: Did they cut a couple scenes? Didn't SA say that we would see his reaction to Felicity's new job? I thought they were having another talk that would take her to Central City? Also, wasn't there a scene of Felicity popping up asking about gunshots? I'm confused and frankly a little pissed, I feel like they are taking the distance too far. I need some of Oliver and Felicity back.

 

Laurel: I liked the AA scene. KC pulled it back and I was pleasantly surprised. Then everything else started. I feel like Laurel just walks around with a massive Logic Fail sign. Jumping some guy with a baseball bat? That was the best she could do? She is a freakin' DA? She accomplished nothing and it was so stupid and contrived I just rolled my eyes. Way too much time was spent on this dumb-ass storyline.

 

How about this? Thea comes back, makes some mistakes, embraces some darkness and then finds her humanity again and decides to take the name Black Canary to honor a hero that also found their way out of darkness but never got the chance to live?

Edited October 23, 2014 by 10Eleven12

[quarks]

My theory is that those advanced weapons are why Ray bought the company.

 

He went to huge (and unethical) lengths to get a company in a city where the opening news segment told us that people are (understandably) fleeing Starling City and the city's economic future is not particularly good. (Which suddenly reminds me of one thing that was missing in this episode: nobody was watching the local news. I mean, it's like they got lives! Or discovered interesting television! Or something.)  Post buying the company, he went to huge lengths to get Felicity to work for him - spending 1.2 billion, stalking her, following her to the hospital, and so on, and pointing out that he would be her boss anyway. 

 

So yeah, I think he wants those weapons - shrinking weapons - and will do anything to get them.

 

But, theory. 

[KenyaJ]

I thought Felicity's reaction to hearing that everything was so badly blown up that he couldn't get anything was a very nice touch.... since it was her idea to blow up Applied Sciences in the first place.

 

I loved this as well. I'm a sucker for callbacks to previous episodes. Also, I really like Ray when he's not stalking and mansplaining. I'm definitely intrigued to find out what he's up to and how long it takes Felicity to figure out what he's up to.

[quarks]

I thought Felicity's reaction to hearing that everything was so badly blown up that he couldn't get anything was a very nice touch.... since it was her idea to blow up Applied Sciences in the first place.

 

 

Yeah, I liked this. Nice callback.

[apinknightmare]

Oliver/Felicity: Did they cut a couple scenes? Didn't SA say that we would see his reaction to Felicity's new job? I thought they were having another talk that would take her to Central City? Also, wasn't there a scene of Felicity popping up asking about gunshots? I'm confused and frankly a little pissed, I feel like they are taking the distance too far. I need some of Oliver and Felicity back.

 

Yeah, there was a scene with Felicity in a pink dress (I think) asking Oliver about gunshots. Was that for sure from this ep? I can't remember, although I did think it was. And we did get a reaction to Felicity having a new job, they just left out the important part of, you know, Felicity telling him who she'd be working with. Gah, some parts this season are REALLY clunky.

[steelyis]

He definitely did looked surprised. Then he looked all determined and looked like he was saying "Some bastards are going to pay for this" 

 

 

Man, if some dude gave me that look I'd either crap my pants or I'd be reaching for the nearest weapon to defend myself with, Thea style. I mean, holy shit! Look at that expression!

[Chaser]

Why is Felicity going to The Flash? She read a blog post? Really? I find that lacking..

[apinknightmare]

Why is Felicity going to The Flash? She read a blog post? Really? I find that lacking..

 

I thought she originally had a talk with Oliver that was supposed to clue her in that this was a good time for her to visit Barry. I could've sworn that was a spoiler at one point. It must've gotten cut?

[benteen]

Was it wrong I laughed when Laurel got beat up , and then compounded it by laughing again when she was in the hospital?

 

Yeah, I thought it was kind of hilarious too.  Stupid Laurel.  This whole storyline is awful and as always, Oliver wants to avoid it like a plague.  I don't blame him.  The guy who is going to be training Laurel seems cool though.

 

That being said, I ended up enjoying this episode.  I wasn't sure if I was liking this new direction (especially with the Laurel nonsense dragging everything down) but I felt better in the end.  Liked seeing Oliver, Diggle, and Roy out in the field together, in a foreign country.

 

Of course, Oliver still is hiding stuff from Thea and Diggle stupidly encouraged that.  Still, good work by both actors and I always like when Diggle has more to do.

 

Love what they did with Thea and I think this storyline is really going to benefit her.  Although going to Malcolm Freakin Merlyn to learn how to deal with your pain is a hilariously dumb idea.  Thea's not going to have anything to rip Oliver on when she associates herself with the likes of Malcolm.

 

I'm starting to like Roy more too.  Colton Haynes was good and again, this storyline seems to be helping him.

 

I like Thea have a big role in Q Consolidated.

 

Nice to see Nyssa back but I wouldn't get too attached to her.  She's a female on Arrow which means there's a fridge out there somewhere with her name on it.

[Actionmage]

It's Gerry Conway (with a "G").

 

Thanks, GaryE; as a long-time DC reader, I should've known better.

 

As to the 'Why Posters Hate Laurel': My reason also has nothing to do with shipping. As I noted above, I am a long-time reader of comics. DC Comics, in fact. When I got past Wonder Woman and discovered Black Canary, I was thrilled there was another BAMF I could enjoy reading about!  I even have a hardcover edition collection of Black Canary's earliest adventures, when she was thought to be a criminal, no less!  The character that The Show wants us to cheer unquestioningly is not anything like the character I have read, in whatever incarnations.  The writing has let this character down and to say this show's Laurel has characterization, I'd laugh at you. There is nothing consistent to this persona.  They haven't ruined Black Canary for me, like they also haven't ruined Amanda Waller for me, because I still have comics with actual Dinah and Amanda. (Tip of the cap to Stephen King for the realization years back.)  I am upset with how the show has wasted the potential of Canary. They have done Katie Cassidy a disservice.  It is not because  of relationships.

 

As to the female friendships: if you mean female/female, yes, there is a dearth of those just yet. The season is still starting and some characters are starting to notice others.  For this show, it would be nice for Felicity to have more friends, like Caitlin and Cisco, outside of Team Arrow . I personally, would enjoy a Lyla/Felicity friendship because Lyla seems like a woman Felicity could be herself around. Lyla knows but has her own ish due to her secrets.  I am not opposed to a Felicity.Laurel friendship, but as many have noted tonight and previously, there needs to be a showing of them becoming friends.  Laurel needs friends, like JoAnna, but she has never had anyone step in after JoAnna was sent away.  (I miss you Annie Ilonzeh!)  Also the previous season's Thea/Laurel should be considered friendly, if not strictly a friendship. It also was a positive in Thea's life, at the time.  Nyssa seemed impressed with Felicity's cool in their initial meeting in the Cave.  I am certain that Felicity could be a mediating influence, as far as Nyssa is concerned.  Nyssa/Laurel could be an interesting relationship, if written smartly. Both are angry about Sara's death and both want to physically hurt the killer(s).  It would be cool to see how their meeting could go. Thea/Nyssa? Daddy Issues on Parade with an Electric Light Show and blades! All that to say, I'm not concerned about female friendships just yet. There are females on this show, they just need to interact more. Also, not all the ladies have to love each other, at least in my book. They don't have to wish ill on folks, but bffs amongst the ladies is not a need. (Yes, that wasn't meant, but often if the women of a show aren't all bestest buds, they are written as mortal enemies. I hate that simplistic bs too.)

 

edited for clarity.

Edited October 23, 2014 by Actionmage

[Shanna]

Actually my problems have absolutely nothing to do with who I prefer together romantically in the show and has absolutely everything to do with the character created by the writers and the problems I have with the actress playing her. And honestly I find it insulting to be told why I don't like something. And really insulting to be told that this is a female problem..

All of that. I love felicity, Thea, Moira (rip), Sara (boo, shakes fist). Hell even nissa and Lila are cool. Shado too. So I don't like this one character, this one actress. It's not a female thing, it's a "this actress and storyline suck a lot" thing. (And I am not planning to like crappy female characters just because they are female for power or something. I like who I like)

And I'm still pissed she is keeping this from Quentyn! After all the issues the secrets have caused. Poor guy.

Anyway I didn't have a problem with felicity being snippy. Laurel has pretty much turned her nose up or ignored felicity in even single scene they've shared, and in this scene she was already pretty busy.

Oh forgot to mention Nissa in general. Next week should be fun. I think her dad killed Sara.

On ray, I cannot not see Brandon as evil, but I think this was probably meant to be a fakeout.

Edited October 23, 2014 by Shanna

[statsgirl]

It feels like there should have been a scene, or even a mention, of Oliver telling Felicity Barry was awake. Because dammit, Felicity spent hours at his bedside!

She seems to think Felicity is the Arrow's employee. And since she sees her and Oliver as 'business partners,' she probably thinks Felicity is her resource too. 

I think that describes/explains Laurel's attitude to Felicity perfectly.

 

I'd buy Thea as the Black Canary but I think the comic book fandom would explode.

[NumberCruncher]

I liked this episode much better than last week but I agree that I'm not loving the disjointedness of the scenes.  Can we please not skip over pivotal scenes so much?

 

The Oliver and Thea scenes were a highlight for me, but that's not surprising since they usually are.

 

I LOL'd at Diggle referring to himself as Lyla's "baby daddy".  The Glock line was hilarious too--Dig wins the best one-liner award this episode.

 

I can't believe how much Roy has grown on me.

 

Hey, the writers actually acknowledged that Laurel was an alcoholic in two straight episodes now!  Maybe they are reading the comment boards after all.

 

I didn't find the Felicity/Laurel phone call to be a big deal at all so the fact that it's even being debated is a surprise to me.

 

Way too little Quentin usage (as per usual).

 

Finally!  An episode where I didn't completely hate Ray.

[benteen]

Oliver did omit the fact that Robert killed another man on that boat before killing himself.

[AustenChick]

So I enjoyed this ep. Quite a bit. Didn't realize how much I missed Thea and Malcolm. I enjoyed mostly everything. Even Laurel being beat up and in the hospital bed -- KC dialed it all down in that scene and was decent. But a couple of things -

 

Felicity and Laurel aren't favor friends! They aren't friends! Gah!

 

Does Oliver know that Felicity is working at QC? That's not really made clear.

Edited October 23, 2014 by AustenChick

[MostlyC]

This thread is for The Episode We Saw Tonight.

 

Talk about what we saw TONIGHT.

 

Speculation on what Has Happened vs.  What Will Happen belongs elsewhere.

 

Most of you are being respectful and terrific and we thank you so very very much.  For the small percentage who are not:  It's okay to agree to disagree but remember to be respectful of other opinions at all times.

 

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

Guys, guys. Watching Laurel get her ass kicked was super sweet. She breathes therefore she is hatable.

 

And aint nothing wrong with all males falling for Felicity. The not!MarySue of Arrowverse. Laurel was unnecessarily mean to her, I mean how dare her call and ask a favor during working hours. It is rude!

[ban1o]

He definitely did looked surprised. Then he looked all determined and looked like he was saying "Some bastards are going to pay for this" 

 

Yeah that's what I was thinking lol. 

[La Dee Da]

BUT EVIL FACE AND EVIL BLUEPRINTS! :p 

 

No I kid. I think this is him trying to be a hero and destroying the plan on those blue prints. 

 

He did say the plans would be the cornerstone for rebuilding Starling, but I don't think "weaponized drones and other shooty things" equals a prosperous and vibrant city in this show. I agree he probably isn't evil - maybe he's going to use the advanced research program to go after someone who did something to him (everyone needs a dark secret on this show afterall)?  It's ambiguous enough that Oliver can justify any objections to Felicity's working at QC (he's clearly unhappy about it) - you know, when they next speak in season six ;)

 

The "you never quit Argus" stuff will lead to interesting storylines for Lyla and Dig - it also makes me curious how Oliver managed to break away from them post-Hong Kong.    

[dtissagirl]

Felicity's indexing/index finger joke was my favorite part. Gotta love a girl with great word play game.

Also, my new headcanon is someone from the Justice League Dark side of the tracks put some bad juju in that jacket that forces whoever puts it on to act exacly like the previous wearer. And that's why every time Laurel wears it, there's the "fire inside her" making her want to Single White Female her dead sister. That's it. Cursed jacket. They can have Zatanna uncurse it later in the season, or something.

Edited October 23, 2014 by dancingnancy

[TanyaKay]

I actually did clap when Felicity got her new office and her new EA. I spent the whole summer hoping she’s be doing something involving applied sciences, and I’m glad the show didn’t let me down on that front, at least.

 

me too.

In fact I clapped at everything Felicity did.

Her getting the office, her thanking her cute new EA, her throwing shade at Laurel (the best part of the show for me) and her just stating to Ray that she needs time off to go see a friend.

And her clothes. I love each and every outfit. Please burn those boob window dresses, the ones she was wearing today were awesome.

[Orion]

Corto Maltese recap

 

I'll just keep posting these because this person makes me laugh if no one minds.

http://jemmmasimmons.co.vu/post/100719908585

 

Edited October 23, 2014 by Orion

[Actionmage]

And I'm still pissed she is keeping this from Quentyn! After all the issues the secrets have caused. Poor guy.

 

Tell me about it! If there was a second, near perfect place/time, it was when she was in the hospital. But no. We better not lose Blackthorne! I may have to think about rioting. Tommy and Sara deaths are two  too many for Laurel "growth". We had best not lose Quentin due to Bad News. 

 

My two cents about the phone calls: All were rude to not pick up on Felicity's tone and actual words. I ask my husband when I call him at his job, " Is this a good time?" He has been curt, but I get it- he's at work and can't talk! Felicity could ask for a couple of minutes--of her new boss at her new job-- and then call back. Due to her being just shy of a genie, she made it work for everyone.

 

As far as Ray and the plans, I saw O.M.A.C. on the lower corner. I hope they expand on that by more than just a dribble. I do bet that Waller and ARGUS have their finger in that pie.

 

I would love to have a web series where Oliver and John and Lyla  show us how to improvise items when caught unawares or when the proper item(s) can't be brought along legally, not unlike the Burn Notice "game" USA had .  It could be a hoot!

 

I am loving that Roy and Oliver have gotten to the point where sentences go between the guys. Like actual folks! There are grins, if not smiles, and training has happened in the time-jump.

 

As to the women getting beaten up in-show? When it is women getting beaten up, I get angry. When heroes that are female take a fight to Bad People, I cheer them on. I still flinch when they are hurt, but they are aware that the physical toll is part of their calling. Be it Sara, Shado, Felicity, Lyla, Helena, MacKenzie or Thea. (Helena may not ever be a Pure Hero to some, but I hope she strives for heroism. That's me though.)

Edited October 23, 2014 by Actionmage

[Trini]

 

Nyssa needs to learn about not drawing down on your host in his own secret lair. It's rude and asking nicely is generally better recieved with Oliver.

 

Hee! Is the Arrow Lair competing with the Castle on Chuck as the Most Un-secret Secret Lair?

[TanyaKay]

And now, Laurel:

 

Show.

 

I'm trying to give this character a break.  Really, I am. And we were getting there this episode.  Sure, the anvils during her meeting with Ted Grant and the AA meeting were, shall we say, heavy, but I thought her bit about having issues with anger was fine, and I actually liked that she was motivated by a need to protect women (even if that's kinda stolen from Sara, but let's move on.)  And then:

 

1. Yes, Laurel, it's called Alcoholics Anonymous for a reason. I'm with Quentin on that one.

 

2. Calling Felicity and treating her like a research assistant. Now, to be fair to Laurel, this was set up to be played for laughs and make Ray (even more) suspicious, thus the lack of "Is this a good time?" but here's the problem: one, it was so in character for Laurel that I didn't bat an eye, which is another in character note that this character is set up to be demanding, and two, Laurel, unlike Diggle, was not having an emergency.

 

3. Going out with just a ski mask on which....

 

....4. And deciding she could be a vigilante with just a big stick.  I know this is the traditional part of the superhero journey especially for those without actual super powers, and they have to fail first and try try again, but at least Oliver and Sara and Thea were all forced into failing. They didn't choose it. Plus, she'd just been told that she needs to learn to fight.

 

5. And then, failing.  Which means that this is 49 straight episodes of this character failing at things. Show, I am reaching my limit. 

 

6. Going to Oliver and demanding training when her face looks like crap, as a visual reminder of how easily she could get hurt, just a week or so after her sister's death. Laurel! Unless he has no feelings at all, he's still mourning your sister who DIED because she did stuff like this. Now is not the time!  At least wait until your face heals! 

 

Seriously I live for your deconstruction of Laurel every episode.

Your Laurel failing as a lawyer and human index was the only thing that got me thorough her crap last year and the year before.

This is just me gushing and grinning like an idiot because you get Laurel like no one, not even her family, esp. not her family.

[thuganomics85]

Now that it's mentioned, Laurel in the hospital would have been the perfect time to tell Quentin about Sara.  I mean, it would have been manipulative as hell too, but it probably would have garner her massive sympathy from Quentin, and prevented him from blowing a gasket (or his heart) right then and there.  Dammit, that was you best chance, Laurel!  Now, she's going to keep on hiding it, and it will just be even worse if/when he finds out.  

 

I'm evilly hoping Nyssa would just stroll up to him and be like "She hasn't told you, yet?!  Some asshole killed your other daughter!"

[statsgirl]

Corto Maltese recap

http://jemmmasimmons.co.vu/post/100719908585

This is a sentiment I think many of us can agree with

 

[DrSpaceman10]

Oliver/Felicity: Did they cut a couple scenes? Didn't SA say that we would see his reaction to Felicity's new job? I thought they were having another talk that would take her to Central City? Also, wasn't there a scene of Felicity popping up asking about gunshots? I'm confused and frankly a little pissed, I feel like they are taking the distance too far. I need some of Oliver and Felicity back.

 

SA said we would see Oliver "pause and then keep going" in his most recent interview, I'm almost positive he was referring to the scene exactly as it played out when Felicity says she has to go to work. This show tends to skip showing characters actually relaying important information to each other and assumes that the characters have had these discussions off screen. 

 

AK said in his interviews at Comic-Con that Felicity goes to Central City after her and Oliver have had a "conversation". The conversation that I believe he was referring to was either the one in the hospital hallway in 3x01 or O/F's conversation in 3x02. 

 

I think that scene of Felicity popping up asking about gunshots was cut from 3x01 because she's wearing that same orange dress.

 

The EPs and SA always oversell Oliver and Felicity moments. Always.

[ban1o]

Also Colton did pretty good with what he had. (he hasn't had that many lines in the previous episodes this season) When they don't make him super angry rage guy all the time I find him pretty decent acting wise

Edited October 23, 2014 by ban1o

[Lantern7]

"Arrow . . . the only show where you actively root for the female lead to get punched in the face!"

 

Oh. My. Glob. Seriously, how bad does Laurel suck? She's not Black Canary. She's never gonna be Black Canary. She's the Whack Canary, and no amount of training from Ted Grant will change that. I hope Ollie burns the jacket. I really do. And I hope Sara comes back as a phantom and reminds her sister about how bad she sucks.

 

The rest of the episode? Pretty good. I like Overwhelmed Felicity. . .  it's just funny to see her multitask, putting up with Ray, Oliver and (eyeroll) Laurel at the same time. Only thing missing was Jason Alexander in a bodysuit, whining about how he can't get fired from the Yankees.

 

How many canon Manhunters are the writers going to bring in? First Kate Spencer, now Mark Shaw. BTW, did anybody else see the word "OMAC" on the blueprints that Ray was gawking at? Or did I imagine that?

 

Seriously . ..  shut up, Laurel. And hi, Nyssa. Nice of you to not knock on the door. And hello, Malcolm. John Barrowman is always welcomed as far as I'm concerned, even if the role he plays is infected with the bat shit crazies.

[calliope1975]

This is the first episode I immediately deleted off my DVR. First time I've ff'd through all the Laurel scenes because I just don't care. Sadly, this means I'm missing out on Quentin scenes and that is inexcusable, Show! 

 

I hate that Team Arrow is so disjointed now. I do, however, love that Felicity got everything (job, office, asst.) that she deserves. Weirdly enough, I also saw that non-bro/sis chemistry between SA and WH. I don't ship it, but I see it. 

 

I hope this is not what this whole season is going to be like.

 

And I didn't really hate anything, it was just blah. I did like Thea training and Digg. I always want more Diggle. I'm glad we got Thea flashbacks because I've not been too impressed with the Hong Kong ones even though I like Karl Yune. Oh wait, I lied above. I did watch the first scene with Laurel and Ted. I wasn't feeling it. Partially because I saw no chemistry between the two, JRR does nothing for me, and because Laurel kept her requisite bitch face on the entire time. 

[yellowfred]

So, I felt like they kind of got off on the right foot with Laurel in this episode, but then rather promptly tripped and fell on their faces (I would have said that they got in a few good shots with her storyline but then ended up bruised and bleeding in a hospital, but that seemed crass).  Like, overlooking the blatant misunderstanding of what perjury is, I liked seeing her kind of throwing herself into her work and I felt bad for her that she couldn't even talk about her sister's death in her AA meeting because of plot contrivances.  Then, on top of that, when that girl was talking about her boyfriend beating her, one of my first thoughts was that Sara would have kicked his ass.  Unfortunately, that's kind of where they lost me.

 

The problem is that, as far as I can tell, Laurel isn't actually disillusioned with the criminal justice system.  In fact, the criminal justice system works just fine in this instance.  The guy has an outstanding warrant and he gets arrested.  That's justice.  Unfortunately, Laurel's not really looking for justice, she's looking for something to hit.  I don't think that's necessarily a completely wrong-headed way to feel, all things considered, but I guess I kind of expected her to be smarter about it.  Like, imagine if that guy, instead of being an asshole, had disarmed her, taken her hat thing off, and then pressed charges for battery.  Hell, if he got the right lawyer, he could probably still charge her for battery and claim that he had to disable her for self defense, since she attacked him in an ally without provocation. 

 

Also, as far as other characters not being called out for the same behavior, I recall Roy being constantly told to think about Thea when he was off looking for fights.  I also recall there being a general consensus that he was being an idiot back then.  Also, his sister hadn't just died doing the exact thing that he was trying to do, so there's that (I seriously can't get over the number of ways that Sara's death doesn't work for the arc they're trying to construct).

 

I feel like my biggest issue with Laurel's arc so far is that they're focusing on her going from being someone who doesn't fight to someone who does, rather than her going from someone who trusts in the law to someone who doesn't.  To me, at least, the latter should have been the bigger journey for her, since that would put the emphasis on her trying doing as much as she can with the skill set she has (her legal skills, specifically) and then deciding that she needs to expand it when that avenue comes up short.  Instead, we have her believing in a magic jacket and making confusing analogies about fire.

 

Also, I hate that she still hasn't told her father.  I was literally screaming at the TV for her to tell him during their hospital scene.

 

All that being said, I actually thought the rest of the episode was pretty good. 

Edited October 23, 2014 by yellowfred

[Artsda]

Since when does Felicity have to help Laurel, Laurel calls her at work wanting a favor? Laurel's an ADA who doesn't know she needs to get a warrant and doesn't know any better than to say "googling a phone." Where did she get her law degree, the back of a cereal box? Then she goes around attacking people and wanting to be her sister? Ugh, can't take Laurel at all. I just FF unless she's in a scene with one of Team Arrow. 

 

Liked all the Corto/Thea and Felicity being appreciated at work and getting her own EA&Office, even if Ray is shady.

[wonderwall]

As much as I hate how the writers are failing Laurel, I've seen an overall positive reaction towards Laurel. I'm glad that people are enjoying her. Unfortunately I'm not which kind of sucks because she really takes away a whole lot of my enthusiasm from any episode I watch. 

[KirkB]

There is little I can say (or care to say) about Laurel that hasn't been said already, except that the whole time she was in the hospital with Quentin I was yelling at her to tell him, even though I knew she wouldn't.

 

Ray's reaction to those plans makes me think he was surprised to see them. They could have been his and he didn't know someone at QC had taken them, or he could be angry/annoyed someone else did something he was trying to do first.

 

I'm no fan of baby's on action shows but even I will admit Digglet was adorable.

 

Thea and Malcolm was as crazy great as I was hoping. It's really telling about the direction of Thea's life when the homicidal maniac is apparently a more positive force than her brother and ex-boyfriend. And yes, I too caught the Mia.

 

And finally, Nyssa. Poor Nyssa. Watching her next week is going to be heartbreaking.

[BkWurm1]

It’s taken to the third episode before I could offer opinions and comments on the episode without first giving myself a time out to recover.  This was not a perfect  Arrow episode since I will never find any episode with pretty much no Core Three interaction lacking but there was plenty of other things that I was able to love.

 

Laurel getting her ass kicked was only one of them.  Yeah, it's petty but what did she really think was going to happen?  She's lucky the guy didn't kill her.  To be far, I was also happy when he was getting whaled on with the baseball bat. 

 

Captain Lance serving up an anonymous  tip, yeah, that’s how you do it Laurel.  Use the skills you know.  Glad to know Laurel decides to hurt people to make herself feel better. 

 

“Are we favor friends?  Are we friends?” 
I’m going to go with no.  I was willing to give Laurel a pass in Sara but tonight it’s clear she just thinks Felicity is the team Google.  There wasn’t even a pretense of pleasantry. 

 

I LOVED Thea!!!!  There is no way that Thea is brainwashed by Malcolm, she might respect him for what he taught her but dude punched her in the face.  No, she’s in this eyes wide open.  Oh and just because it needs to be said again…MIA!

The writers really couldn’t have demonstrated any more clearly why Thea having skills makes sense and why Laurel is a terrible, terrible idea.  Thank goodness that Oliver said no but unless Ted Grant decides to go the Malcolm Merlyn school of badass, Laurel hasn’t a chance of catching up. 

 

Roy was very Roy.

 

Diggle was extra heaping helpings of awesome.  I am more than a little worried about what Waller has Lyla mixed up in.

 

Oliver – he’s pushed Felicity away – who by the way apparently is pretending that nothing has changed (yeah, Oliver is not playing by the same rules but maybe she’ll wear him down.)  He didn’t even call for her help but left that to Diggle.  It makes sense that he would try to fill the hole left by pushing his dreams of the future away (Felicity) and the loss he experienced (Sara) with Thea.  I don’t see why Thea isn’t a distraction but maybe she’s easier to compartmentalize?  Anyway, looking forward to what happens with her.

 

I didn't think that Felicity told anybody she’s working for Ray, Roy certainly didn't know, but I'll have to go back and look for Oliver's expression.  Her announcing her trip to Central City is interesting.  My head canon says that she's deliberately avoiding Oliver (he comes back and she leaves) but not sure that is really supported.  Question, does that  mean she’s not going to be in episode 4 of Arrow ?  Again with the convoluted timelines. 

 

Ah, Nyssa, I missed you.  Sorry we won’t have more Nyssa and Felicity time.

Edited October 23, 2014 by BkWurm1

[Carrie Ann]

The problem is that, as far as I can tell, Laurel isn't actually disillusioned with the criminal justice system.  In fact, the criminal justice system works just fine in this instance.  The guy has an outstanding warrant and he gets arrested.  That's justice.  Unfortunately, Laurel's not really looking for justice, she's looking for something to hit.

 

And wasn't the heavy implication at the end that Quentin was the "anonymous tip" that led to that guy's arrest? I mean, probably ethically shady when it comes to AA, but at the same time, working within the constraints of the system. Laurel hasn't even tried, and we haven't seen her face any huge, awful instances of evil people getting away scot free (um, except Moira, obviously). I am dumbfounded at how they're handling this, honestly.

[statsgirl]

Oliver – he’s pushed Felicity away – who by the way apparently is pretending that nothing has changed (yeah, Oliver is not playing by the same rules but maybe she’ll wear him down.)  He didn’t even call for her help but left that to Diggle.  It makes sense that he would try to fill the hole left by pushing his dreams of the future away (Felicity) and the loss he experienced (Sara) with Thea.  I don’t see why Thea isn’t a distraction but maybe she’s easier to compartmentalize?  Anyway, looking forward to what happens with her.

He's grabbing on to the one person he can hold close -- Thea.  Sara is dead and Felicity is moving away from him (I do think he knows about her new job but Roy is clueless, a part he plays well) and Laurel is doing her own form of mourning so he's trying to get Thea back..

 

I missed that he left it to Diggle to call Felicity. Oliver can be such an idiot sometimes. Well actually, much of the time.

 

I wonder if Sara's magical jacket came from Mr. Gold's store on Once Upon a Time?

Edited October 23, 2014 by statsgirl

[BkWurm1]

As much as I hate how the writers are failing Laurel, I've seen an overall positive reaction towards Laurel. I'm glad that people are enjoying her.

 

I enjoyed her getting some comeuppance but I can't say I enjoyed her.  Her first scene was cringe worthy and I had a hard time even looking at the screen.  Everything about it, the acting, the expressions, the lines - and from both Ted and Laurel - was painful and absurd.  Why wouldn't a police officer be there checking up on the kid's alibi?  And then he starts with the mansplaining.  OH, you don't really feel this, you feel this!  Suddenly I wanted to get in the ring.  I'm ok with their anti-chemistry.  Having her teacher kind of hate her works for me.  Of course he could teach her for he next 10 years and I still won't buy her as a canary. 

[Chaser]

I feel like Laurel's only motivation to be the Black Canary is ANGER ANGER ANGER. I can't connect the dots with anything else. 

[Chicago Redshirt]

I could bet a $1 million dollars if that was Roy, no one would comment. I'm sticking with that. 

 

And I'm sorry but why should she think about Quentin. Since when is that a problem for a Superhero's origin. I don't here anyone saying, "But Peter isn't thinking about poor Aunt May! Oliver isn't thinking about Thea or his mom!" I mean, why is that Laurel needs to think of her father? Yes, he's sick but Aunt May was an old woman, anything happened to Peter it would kill her. And Thea would break if Oliver dies(or she would before her training), so where are the cries of for Oliver to stop?

 

I just find it funny that Oliver tells Laurel "Think about your dad" when Oliver never one thought about anyone else in his quest. That's the hero life. There is a line of selfishness in people like Peter Parker, Oliver Queen and other heroes with secret identities and a family. So why is Laurel an exception to the rule?

 

If it were Roy, at least he has been part of Team Arrow for a while. So there would be a precedent for him to have earned the right to call Felicity on Team Arrow business. As far as I can remember, Laurel hasn't fully been part of Team Arrow, hasn't previously established a "favor friends" relationship or a friends friends relationship with Felicity. And Felicity is often perfectly blunt and says what is on her mind. So pointing this out doesn't seem out of character to me. 

 

Add that Ollie has been expressly calling for Laurel to stay out of things, and Felicity acting like she did makes even more sense to me.

 

If it were Lyla or any other random person calling asking for a favor in a commanding tone, I'd at least comment on it.

 

As to why she should think about Quentin, she should because Quentin has been through a helluva lot. Sarah was presumed dead, which broke up his marriage and turned him to an alcoholic. Sarah then came back into their lives and that led to him and his wife (and Laurel) being almost killed by crazy-ass Nyssa. And unbeknownst to Quentin, Sarah has actually been killed because of her vigilanteeism. Plus Laurel has only been threatened with death or kidnapped about a half-dozen times as a civilian. So think of what would happen if Laurel were to be going out of her way to put her life on the line. (Why she shouldn't also think of Dinah is another thing)

 

Peter Parker often had angst about how his being Spider-Man hurt his aunt, and keeping secrets from his aunt was a bad idea. Yeah, he ultimately did it anyway because the good he does as Spider-Man outweighs the bad of lying to Aunt May.

 

Oliver also had angst about how he was lying constantly to the people around him. 

 

Part of the difference is that they have unique talents. Laurel, at this point, does not. 

 

Onto other matters: the plans that Ray was looking at were schematics for OMAC.

 

I wish there was more with Thea and Ollie. I would have loved to see the full admission that he's been the Arrow, that Deathstroke came after the family because of him, and so on. But I guess he pulled up and decided to only admit some broad strokes. No good can come from Thea not admitting that Malcolm's alive. I wish they would explain to us how that happened.

 

Mark Shaw is another DC goodish guy turned bad guy for the show. Maybe he will be shown as part of the Suicide Squad eiter going forward or in flashbacks. Seems his bad guy efforts could use some work. No reason for him to basically hip John to his upcoming sale of the NOC List..I mean, the Argus Actual. I get that he wanted the transcoder dealio, but he probably could have gotten the transcoder any number of ways rather than trying to ambush John.

 

While lying to a district attorney isn't perjury, it is potentially obstruction of justice. And yeah, there's no real reason for Laurel to be doing the investigating, and even if there were, there's no reason she would go to Ted Grant rather than the guy who was suspected of the break-in.

 

One other thing: I think Laurel and Thea's motivation is essentially the same. Both have been hurt so much and are looking for a way to not be victims any more. But Thea comes off as completely credible (to me, anyway) as a newly fledged bad-ass. I can buy that after five months of training with Malcolm, she can do high level fighting. I'm fairly sure Laurel will not come off as a credible fighter, ever.

Edited October 23, 2014 by Chicago Redshirt

[some1105]

Laurel's a moron.  In 49 states, she could have been prosecuted for assault and the DV asshole would have had every right to claim self defense.  In Florida, he could probably have shot her and walked.  Jesus.  Moron.

[Chaser]

I've been seeing more positive reactions to Laurel too. From what I've seen it's because people feel there is now a point to her character and they prefer angry Laurel over crying bi polar Laurel. I've noticed 'professional' critics have short term memories too; they tend to focus less on the big picture and more on the episode they are watching. One reviewer flat out said he hated Laurel the past two years, but he was all pro-Laurel in 'Sara' because she was Bad-Ass(Ugh). Fandom is more concerned with the overall development of the show and are less forgiving of poor writing. I know four other people who watch Arrow. No Laurel fans and no one has changed their opinion on her. 

 

I don't think this episode did her any favors either: "Its like there is a fire in me." - Just take an antacid. Seriously. The worst lines.

[Lokiberry]

So, Laurel's getting Sara's jacket, name, girlfriend, and defending the women reason for being a vigilante. What's next? Will KC's next plastic surgery involve a cleft on the chin?

 

Oh dear, was that mean?

[Nanrad]

Umm how did Laurel now Felicity was in a meeting with her boss? And considering Felicity is a semi-superhero/Oracle-light, calling her out of the blue isn't far fetched.

 

And I don't get the comments that Laurel coming more into a role means less Felicitya and less Felicity/Oliver(umm last episode they had a huge emotional scene together).

 

This is one of my major problems with fandom and shipping. Since it tends to be female centric, it creates a lot of animosity towards female characters. I mean, what's going on that where mad that Laurel called Felicity for a favor. I want this to happen, especially considering Felicity is this world's Oracle and Babara and Dinah were best friends in the comics. HAving that relationship develop would be amazing.

 

But there is this Laurel vs Felicity divide that's just disappointing. I get a lot of people want Felicity and Oliver(not me. Felicity is my favorite character and I fear what a relationship with Oliver could do to her development), but yeah...it sucks that's how people see it.

Well, Laurel should've thought about the hours in which she was calling Felicity: working hours. Laurel was at work herself, what made her think Felicity wasn't at work--she doesn't know her schedule. I'm not saying it deserves backlash, BUT I've gotten on both my sister and mother for calling me at work. I'm actually reluctant to call people during certain hours just in case they are working. Regardless of Felicity's semi-super hero status, she still has to work, which means Laurel should still ask if she was calling during at good time. It's the considerate thing to do.

 

I think what people are saying is that mean Laurel means bad quality, which can be used instead for learning more about other characters or getting more insight into Felicity/Oliver. Laurel isn't a threat to Felicity and Olicity. 

 

I think your assessment of fandom and shipping is way off base. As others have told you, Laurel was disliked pre-Felicity/Olicity. It has nothing to do with Laurel being female and a "threat" and everything to do with being poorly constructed. This has been talked about at length in Laurel's thread and, if you were are TWOP, you can see that she was disliked since the pilot. It's not a gender thing, it's a lack of quality thing.

 

It sucks that our feelings have been written off due to our gender rather than valid criticism.

 

I could bet a $1 million dollars if that was Roy, no one would comment. I'm sticking with that. 

 

And I'm sorry but why should she think about Quentin. Since when is that a problem for a Superhero's origin. I don't here anyone saying, "But Peter isn't thinking about poor Aunt May! Oliver isn't thinking about Thea or his mom!" I mean, why is that Laurel needs to think of her father? Yes, he's sick but Aunt May was an old woman, anything happened to Peter it would kill her. And Thea would break if Oliver dies(or she would before her training), so where are the cries of for Oliver to stop?

 

I just find it funny that Oliver tells Laurel "Think about your dad" when Oliver never one thought about anyone else in his quest. That's the hero life. There is a line of selfishness in people like Peter Parker, Oliver Queen and other heroes with secret identities and a family. So why is Laurel an exception to the rule?

You can stick with your opinion, but you'd lose a million. 

 

As others have said, she didn't tell Quentin about his daughter, her sister's death, because she thought it'd kill him. So, what does she decide to do: become the very thing that got her sister killed. Aren't people more reluctant to do something that harmed another? With Peter, his vigilantism was commented on in relation to Aunt May, I believe. With Oliver, he's just so screwed up, but is constantly called out for his self centered behavior and thinking he knows best. Unlike Laurel, both had their power/abilities PRE vigilantism. 

 

Oliver has thought about other people, BUT he feels guilty and responsibility (as well as a lot of other things) that makes him continue to do what he does. HE also has recently acknowledged the true dangers of his lifestyle. Laurel wants to be a vigilante because of revenge and Sara did it, Oliver does it because he feels obligated due to what his family has done to the city. See the difference in motives?

 

Laurel's a moron.  In 49 states, she could have been prosecuted for assault and the DV asshole would have had every right to claim self defense.  In Florida, he could probably have shot her and walked.  Jesus.  Moron.

I laughed at Florida being an exception because, well, they are Florida. Honestly, he could've killed her and would've done worse in real life. Laurel was lucky.

 

Guys, guys. Watching Laurel get her ass kicked was super sweet. She breathes therefore she is hatable.

 

And aint nothing wrong with all males falling for Felicity. The not!MarySue of Arrowverse. Laurel was unnecessarily mean to her, I mean how dare her call and ask a favor during working hours. It is rude!

Personally, I laughed and it's because Laurel's an idiot. She goes after a wife beater with a BAT--what was her backup plan??? Then, it's obvious just how much the writers are trying to force her origin story and motives down our throats. Enough already--we're gagging now.

 

I don't think Laurel was rude, I think she was inconsiderate and a bit self-centered. And it goes to a larger issue with Laurel and Felicity, they have no relationship--Laurel has been largely dismissive or bossy, at times, when it comes to Felicity. So, she really has no right to ask Felicity anything and expect Felicity to be compliant or not question why exactly she's doing the favor. Clearly, she does favors for those she's friends with, exchanges favors with, OR works for. Laurel fits in neither category, so she doesn't have a right to demand anything. She should've ASKED which should've been preceded with asking if Felicity was free. Laurel believes that just because Felicity works with Oliver that she can demand favors. 

 

Didn't the inverse happen with Laurel last season--all the males falling for her? Has Diggle fallen for Felicity, Blood, did Tommy, Roy? No. Oliver's feelings for Felicity was built over time, Barry and Felicity have many things in common, and we don't know Ray's motives but he's seems awfully shady. That's three guys! What other guy has fallen for Felicity. I find it hard to believe that men wouldn't be attracted to her on a basic level: she's beautiful, intelligent, and funny--she also stands up for herself as well, which attracts some men. She's not a snaggle-toothed troll who can't have a basic conversation.

[Lantern7]

Chicago Redshirt . . . thanks. I thought I imagined that. Problem is, the schematics don't suggest an OMAC that's canon-based. It looked more like Malcolm's magic earthquake machine for the Undertaking.