S02.E05: The Weeping Lady

[Valny]

Although I totally crack up that people on Sleepy Hollow must be so inured to crazy shit that a pool opening up in the middle of the library doesn't even merit an angry librarian coming over to tell them all to be quiet.

 

Word. I wonder what Abbie said to the paramedics to explain why she was soaking wet in the middle of the library. Maybe she said she fainted, fell on the floor, and Crane doused her with a bucket of water?

 

 

 

You know something, I didn't even think about that. That's what this show does to me, I'm so into Crane and Abbie's awesome relationship(and both actors chemistry) that all the ridiculousness of each ep doesn't even phase me. I zone into their scenes(and Mison's good looks, can't deny that) and that's all I need.  :)

[crabbypants]

I wonder if this marks the beginning of an arc where Katrina goes evil and Henry/Jeremy tries to go good but dies.  

[Writing Wrongs]

Now we know how Katrina planned to communicate with Ichabod while trapped in the Horseman's house (little bluebird), but why waste her suppressed powers just to send a love note with no vital info?

 

This was a wtf for me. How 'bout some useful information? What a waste of powers and a bird messenger.

 

I wish we'd go back to seeing more Headless and less Abraham. Because, yawn.

[MrsRafaelBarba]

In Webster's dictionary, a pic of Abe in that struggle wig should be next to the word Dry.

[Trini]

Yeah, it's a pillow that she's embroidered IC on, with a tree in the middle. For a minute, I thought it meant "Ichabod/Caroline" but then I realized it was probably just meant to be his initials.

Hey, two birds, one stone.  :-)

[LeeLeePanda]

Totally shallow, but I wonder if Abbie has a Brazilian Blowout in her hair? She got pulled underwater, and her hair didn't frizz/curl one bit after!

[Norskgirl02]

Besides the theorizing that Katrina may have played more of a role in Mary's death than she let on, (which seems entirely plausible but I don't know if the show will go there,) there is another possibility as well; that Mary's accusation that Katrina had 'bewitched' Ichabod may have had more truth to it than anyone realized, and that yes indeed Katrina's need to secure the Witness to the cause, made her use magic to stack the deck in her favor by ensuring his affections.  (This frankly would explain a LOT.)  Of course the problem for Katrina would be that whatever she used isn't completely foolproof, as evidenced by his recent anger towards her and perhaps more significantly by his bond with Abbie.  Like not even the most powerful of enchantments could stand in the way of the immediate connection between the two witnesses.

 

Or maybe I'm just reaching.  What do you think?

 

This is my first time posting here, so sorry for any errors. But I totally agree with the above, as a matter of fact I've thought this since last season. Katrina didn't seem that interested in Ichabod until she realized he could be/was a Witness then that switch flipped. Katrina might be Ichabod's great love but not Katrina's.

Edited October 22, 2014 by Norskgirl02

[Delwyn]

 

Crane, catching his snap at last

I chuckled the whole day imagining Mison's befuddled and halting line delivery of "Caught... my snap?" And Crane trying to puzzle through it after Abbie just rolls her eyes.

 

I liked this episode because I think in the first season they shied away from the toll this whole evil armageddon might take on Crane. He seemed a little too buttoned down for what was going on in the final few episodes of last season. He was taking his job so seriously, without considering his own life for most of the time he has been back; I hope to see more of him realizing what has been sacrificed to be a Witness. Not that I necessarily believe Katrina's motives at this point - which made the conversation with Abbie about truth and honesty and doubting the wife he has put his faith in both satisfying and sad. It was great to see him go "Wait a minute. You lied about all these things, plus you left another dude for me." I mean, it would be weird if he wasn't questioning her here. But you feel bad for him all the same. I mean, I think the Katrina is super boring, although he obviously does not feel the same.

 

Kudos, I guess, for displaying Crane's enduring pathos for people who do him wrong and showing off an incredibly jaded moment within the same episode.

 

ETA:

 

 

No, I don't think you are reaching, actually. Henry at the end mentioned "severing the bond' between Ichabod and Katrina. Those again were such odd words to use, that it stood out to me. Severing a bond? Why not just say "turn Ichabod against Katrina" or vise verse. I have always thought it possible that she cast a spell on Ichabod in that the scene in last years Sin Eater, when Katrina was whispering in his ear. It would explain some of his behaviour, to be honest. And from very early on in season 1, I have always thought that Ichabod was deliberately put on his Witness path and manipulated by Washington, Katrina and everyone else around. It's just too bad no one bothered to tell Ichabod himself.

 

I may also be reaching, but I suppose you could argue that now that she is out of purgatory and he is not so intent on getting her out of there as he remembers her and now that her magic is being blocked at the house, some of this glamour has worn off. If he were indeed enchanted, she would now have less control over that. But I really think I might be thinking too hard about that.

Edited October 22, 2014 by Delwyn

[Indi]

You weren't the only one -- clutching pearls is exactly how I would describe Ichabod.  When he yelled, "SHE'S DROWNED!!!" I laughed so hard.  It struck me as so melodramatic.

He didn't sound melodramatic to me. The impression I got from him during that scene was "Welp! I guess she's dead. Nothing to be done" So blase! Nick showed more emotion and concern, and he barely knows her. Tom does usually nail the "Ichy has a case of the manpain" though. I'll give him that.

 

I think it's funny that even though he knows Katrina is a liar, he bought her nonsensical story about Mary's "accident". What a moron!

[Neurochick]

Or is she smart? In those times when women were just accessories, playing the victim whose honour/feelings have been insulted and making the other feel they are wronging her is a good way to make things go the exact way she wants them. Tenacity is also a form of strength.

 

 

I don't think so.  To me she came off weak and desperate, not strong at all.

[OakGoblinFly]

I have mixed feelings on this episode ...... I like parts of it, but as a whole it felt pretty "meh."

 

Unlike most people around these parts, I do see chemistry between Katrina and Ichabod; it's different than the chemistry with Abbie (I still don't see romance betweem Abbie/Ichabod - I see deep, loyal, trusting, lifelong, walk-thru-fire friendship), Jenny, Irving, or even Henry but it s there.  Furthermore, I do see a love between the two and I do believe they love each other deeply. 

 

Still not sure why the show needs Hawley - unless there's some payoff down the road I think his role/function could have been fulfilled by Jenny and her "connections" in the supernatural relic hunting world.  This would have given us more time to see Jenny-Abbie interactions (which are sorely missing this season).

 

I think episode suffers from too little Irving - I miss the Scooby Gang and wish they would re-unite soon.

 

I am also tired of Crane being an expert on everything (I miss when Abbie would demonstrate she knew things (and not just about the modern world) too)  - I don't mind Crane "Forrest Gumping" his way through the Revolutionary War or even the fact that he had a connection to The Weeping Lady via Mary because that connection is what bridges past to present and works in the context of the show.  What I do mind is that he was able to figure out that The Weeping Lady was Mary because of a small piece of lace - but not any lace; lace made with a type of cotton found only in Scotland, hand tatted in a specific pattern.  Why couldn't Abbie have grabbed a locket, watch fob or some other item that would have identified The Weeping Lady as Mary?  Why did it have to be the lace?  Was it so we could be impressed by Crane's knowledge of lace patterns and the fact that Mary wore similar lace?

 

It's not just the lace, it's the Judas coin, the battery booby trapped coffin, and so on ..... it feels like the show is become more about Crane and his awesome powers of deduction/connection to all things and the Mills sisters are being relegated to second string.

Edited October 22, 2014 by OakGoblinFly

[topanga]

 

Totally shallow, but I wonder if Abbie has a Brazilian Blowout in her hair? She got pulled underwater, and her hair didn't frizz/curl one bit after!

The Brazilian, I don't know. But she does have a weave, so the hair we see is most likely Indian or Brazilian (human) hair, and not Nicole Beharie's hair.  I'm not hatin'--Abbie's hair is beautiful

[kia112]

Ha, topanga.  I was getting ready to reply "If Brazilian is code for weave, then yes..."

[OakGoblinFly]

Hawley is "needed" to be a romantic obstacle between Abbie and Ichabod.  Jenny is not going to date her own sister and she really doesn't need to fall for Ichabod because at that point Ichabod is basically collecting a harem.  I'm fine with an "opposites attract" romance between Abbie and Hawley.

 

Why do you need a romantic obstacle between Abbie and Ichabod when (1) Ichabod is married and (2) there aren't any plans of coupling Abbie and Ichabod>

[Iamsweetdee]

it feels like the show is become more about Crane and his awesome powers of deduction/connection to all things and the Mills sisters are being relegated to second string.

 

Becoming? I watched the credits and [finally] paid attention to them and its all Crane, Katrina and Headless. Sure the other folks have their title cards, but that's it. Tells me all I need to know. 

[topanga]

I feel like 90% of my problem with Katrina is the fact that she is played with an over-the-top LADY FROM THE PAST aspect to her voice and somehow she doesn't make it work like Tom Mison manages. She ends up sounding like she stepped out of a bodice-ripper and it makes it hard for her to deliver her lines in any sort of way I find convincing, especially in comparison to Abby, who isn't saddled with it. Honestly, I'm kinda rooting for her to turn Abraham back to the good (or at least the not-actively-evil) and ride off with him into their own happy sunset. Can't a witch and a headless dude just go build a new life for themselves? I say yes. 

 

I want more Jenny and less Romancing the Stone. And I want to know what Irving is doing. Can he please be looking up supernatural contract law, or something? I'd love it if he countersued Henry.

GinevradiBenci, all three of your points hit the nail on the head:

 

• One of the reasons I liked the scenes with Ichabod and Crazy Mary was that Mary wasn't breathy or wooden, despite being from the same era as Katrina. Mary was a (crazily) passionate and articulate woman whose love for Ichabod was apparent with the first sentence out of her mouth. Compare that to me feeling like Katrina is just reciting lines whenever she tells Ichabod how much she loves him. Then again, his declarations of love to her aren't very convincing either, and he lacks the emotive body language that he displays with Abbie, Mary, or even Caroline. 

        --I feel like a broken record for talking about this topic again. I discussed it ad nauseum during Season 1. But I still don't know if it's Katia Winter who brings the scenes down, or if she and Tom Mison just don't play well off each other.

 

• And I like Hawley, but I think he's getting too much screen time--at the expense of Jenny. 

 

• Irving looking up supernatural contract law--that's just funny.

 

To make things worse, the show has been posting this picture all over the place but cut it from the show.  I cry foul!  Foul, I say!

 

Yes, the show keeps coming up with new ways to torture me. I noticed in this picture and at other times when Crane hugs Abbie--in the library, in the church, and at the end of the Sin Eater episode, for example--he often holds her gently, like she's a fragile little bird. Maybe it's because they're in crisis situations and he's feeling emotionally overwhelmed. I know Crane doesn't see Abbie as a delicate little flower, nor does he treat her that way. Perhaps it's in those moments that Crane realizes how precious Abbie is to him and how close he came to being apart from her forever. Or in the case of Purgatory, how close he is to actually being far apart from her.  

 

 

This episode showed us two significant things:

 

First, this episode marks the beginning of Ichabod's disillusionment with Katrina.

I wonder if this means he'll stop putting himself and Abbie in danger for Katrina's sake. Abbie once told Crane that his faith in Katrina is his weakness, much like Abbie's faith in Crane is her weakness. Crane has always been blinded by his love for Katrina as well as his own selfish ambitions. I hope that going forward, we'll see a smarter and less self-centered Ichabod.

Edited October 22, 2014 by topanga

[Iamsweetdee]

Meh episode other than the realization by Crane that his dear , sweet Katrina is a lying, scheming piece of crap. Still don't like Hawley and still think he looks gross. He does nothing that Jenny couldn't do, well, I guess he has a penis so there's that. I haven't been drawn in by these episodes as I was last season, it might be because the "new show" smell has worn off, but I think it really is the storytelling is suffering from trying to make Crane and his family more central than they really need to be to do the story justice. 

[kimberella]

it feels like the show is become more about Crane and his awesome powers of deduction/connection to all things and the Mills sisters are being relegated to second string.

 

The show has always been about Crane and how awesome and speshul he is first and foremost, second about his speshul feelings and third about his family. The rest is window dressing and an excuse to promote themselves as "diverse", when in reality it couldn't be whiter. The leading lady? Her feelings, her backstory, friends and even family have no place in this show, unless they find a way to insert Crane and make it about him.

   

Why do you need a romantic obstacle between Abbie and Ichabod when (1) Ichabod is married and (2) there aren't any plans of coupling Abbie and Ichabod>

 

Hawley is not an obstacle to Abbie and Ichabod (Abbie is too ugly and black for the showrunners to be deserving of a love story, even less one with their very special white male lead). He's an obstacle to the Mills sisters. It's not like they're sharing much screentime alone developing their relationship. As far as I remember, zero scenes this season. So yeah, I don't see the point of Hawley's character or why I should root for them to get over this guy in the name of a sisterly relationship the writers don't even care about.

[HalcyonDays]

I feel like a broken record for talking about this topic again. I discussed it ad nauseum during Season 1. But I still don't know if it's Katia Winter who brings the scenes down, or if she and Tom Mison just don't play well off each other.

 

I'm torn between deliberate or just the actors. I don't fault Mison, only because he has chemistry with everything - the evidence is all over the show. Hell, his scenes with Miss Caroline show that, and she was a barely established character. Could be an acting decision by both, a directorial decision or just sometimes, you don't get the right mix/balance with your coworkers. It happens. Katia Winter was cast first and she never chemistry tested with anyone. Nicole Beharie was cast a bit after, and Mison screen tested with her, to ensure that the sole two leads worked well together. So the show knew that Mison and Beharie were magic together, and since they are the sole two leads, everything and anyone else didn't matter. However, Lyndie Greenwood did chemistry test with Beharie, maybe because of the deep storyline with the sisters. Hmm.. So again, strange that the Crane's didn't test (maybe they did and we don't know about it, to be honest).

 

Why do you need a romantic obstacle between Abbie and Ichabod when (1) Ichabod is married and (2) there aren't any plans of coupling Abbie and Ichabod>

 

The writers/showrunners have made some surprising statements recently concerning this. Very surprising actually. I won't spoil it but it can be found on the Internet. Very pleased with the comments, I will say.

 

As for focus on Abbie. She will get a love interest this season. We will learn about her/Jenny's family. Her mother will appear. We will learn why she is a Witness. The first half of season 1 was Abbie story centric, then switched over to Crane. Season 2 is Crane story centric, and at the halfway point will switch to Abbie. One must balance between the leads, however stories need to be fleshed out over episodes, and it takes time. The switch will occur mostly likely around episode 8-ish.

 

I do miss Irving and miss him being part of the Scooby gang. Would love to see him find a way to manipulate Henry/the contract "rules" and turn the tables on the baddies. Then he can be saved and rejoin the gang.

[phoenics]

Re: Ichabod looking at Abbie after the speech. I do think some of those circumstances do to his mind he appreciates at least this part of this new era. Although I took that look to be triggered by the words "truer". I think nostalgia kicks in because back then everything was straightforward and he knew his role and place. Now? Everything is uncertain and then he sees Abbie, who is part of the present, who represents everything that is true in his life right now. She consistently reminds him of the good things he has and that he does have a home in present day Sleepy Hollow. She also was thoughtful and kind enough to organise that gathering. That was him appreciating the here and now => Abbie a lot more.

You must warn us before you post such an amazingly poignant post! This line here: "Now? Everything is uncertain and then he sees Abbie, who is part of the present, who represents everything that is true in his life right now."

That line right there... just kicked me in the feels... so... hard...

I'm going to go cry in the corner now.

Maybe the reason Katrina seems so evasive is that the writers haven't decided where they're going yet.

That's been the problem with this character from day one. They were originally going to kill her in the pilot and then changed it... I have my suspicions why - but at any rate, Katrina ended up being nothing more than a plot device and an exposition fairy. Now - the writers have admitted that she's an obstacle to Ichabbie. Which is what I expected all along anyway.

So - my thing with Katrina is that she literally was a vessel for the writers to push whatever plot they had - a way to engage Crane and set up some story. She was never really a story unto herself and she still isn't. Even this Hellfire Shard and Vessel stuff takes away her agency and makes her a plot device still.

It's why I never bought into Ichatrina - well, that and the fact that their love is toxic and created 2 horsemen of the apocalypse.

But I think the writers may have finally decided to simply go down the shady path with Katrina - until her usefulness runs out and they kill her off.

[phoenics]

He didn't sound melodramatic to me. The impression I got from him during that scene was "Welp! I guess she's dead. Nothing to be done" So blase!

I did not get this at all. Crane was the opposite of BLASE... In fact when Crane yelled this out - he honestly sounded destroyed and so, so utterly helpless and panicked. Especially since he couldn't do anything - for him - a person drowned was a death sentence. There was nothing you could do... He looked like he was about to run off weeping, wailing and gnashing his teeth... I didn't take his "She's drowned!" as a "there's nothing you can do" - but more as a verbalizstion of what to him was an unrecoverable situation... His helplessness and panic was so utterly palpable - it felt to me like one of the most powerful parts of the episode...

When he screamed "SHE'S DROWNED!!" and his voice went up an octave into some kind of wail - man... I just felt so sad for him... this strange mixture of pity and "AWWWWWW!!!!"...

Nick showed more emotion and concern, and he barely knows her. Tom does usually nail the "Ichy has a case of the manpain" though. I'll give him that.

I though TM was great - he's "Please please please please..." - he had NO IDEA what Hawley was doing - it almost looked like magic to him and he looked like he could scarcely hope that Abbie could be saved. I got no inclination that he was giving up - more like he was ready to fall over Abbie's body sobbing, lol.

The one TM move that really got me was when Abbie finally started coughing up water and breathing in air, he sort of started toward her like he was about to grab her to him, but stopped himself short.

Tom Mison killed his scenes, imo.

 

I think it's funny that even though he knows Katrina is a liar, he bought her nonsensical story about Mary's "accident". What a moron!

I still think Katrina helped her over that cliff... but even if she didn't, she certainly kept it a secret for her own ends. It proves she knew Ichabod was a witness well before he did. Which throws her whole relationship into question - did she seek him out because he was a witness? Was there some kind of prophecy that she knew of and she approached him only for that? Why wasn't she honest with him? And did she do that letter not only to keep him tethered to the witness thing (if that was his destiny nothing would thwart it), but to keep him with HER? Ichabod didn't even know she had feelings for him until the day Abraham gave her that necklace...

[cam3150]

 

Headless is a better actor and more interesting than Abraham.

Totally agree.  I am assuming they are not played by the same actor. I know I could IMDB it but I'm too lazy at the moment. Anyway, the actor who plays Headless is perfectly perfect in the role. He somehow manages to impart the exact sense of forboding and terror that the Headless Horseman should, even down to  the tiniest of movements.  I am terrified of Headless but Abraham?   Not so much.

 

I also agree with the person way upthread...I don't need to see Headless in every episode. It kind of takes away from his whole persona if he's just trolling around the woods every night for no reason.  It makes his presence not as impactful as it should be.  I guess I didn't realize that Katrina is the only one who actuallly sees Abraham until this most recent episode...right?

 

This whole episode was fantastic. I need to re-watch it. I purposefully waited until yesterday (and daylight) to watch it since I was off work.I figured the Weeping Lady would completely freak me out...and she did but it was not as bad as I was expecting.  Everything about that entire storyline was great. Add me to the huge list of viewers who really loved Caroline and her interactions with Ichabod.  She served a lot of purposes, or could have, not the least of which could have been acting as Ichabod's clothing supplier.  I hate that they killed her off so quickly.  Ichabod's reaction when they found her body was heartbreaking. 

 

I don't mind Hawley...yet. Also, the actor is HOT so that never hurts. I could get with him being a love interest for Jenny but not one for Abbie, if that is where they are going.  He and Jenny seem to fit together more than he does with Abbie, just their personalities seem similar. They both have that kind of rogue vibe going.  I also don't get why it can't be the 4 of them in the Scooby Gang. Why does Hawley being around mean that Jenny can't be?   

 

If Katrina has to be around, I really wish she and Ichabod weren't actually married.  She could be his love or whatever without being his wife. I only say this because it's really the marriage aspect of their relationship that seems to drag everything down.  Anytime Ichabod meantions that he's married, you can almost hear shows gears screech to a halt. I don't know, it just doesn't fit in with everything else.  it doesn't fit in with the way Ichabod is around Abbie either.  The show may not be intending it, but there is more chemistry in one glance between those two than between all of the combined screen time between him and Katrina.  The constant declarations to Abbie that they only have each other, that they can only trust each other, that they are important only to each other don't help either.  

 

If they were just engaged, yes it would be hard for Ichabod to get past it when and if the time comes but he could do that. A marriage is going to be more difficult for him to leave behind...because there is no way the show can intend for Ichabod and Katrina to be together for the duration of the show...so he will be leaving it behind at some point.  I don't mean he would love her any less, I just mean marriage is a big deal, especially to someone from Ichabod's time.  It just seems that marriage is a bond that will be much more difficult for Ichabod to break.  That's not even getting into the legal aspects of it, which, would there even be any at this point? 

Edited October 22, 2014 by cam3150

[HalcyonDays]

I though TM was great - he's "Please please please please..." - he had NO IDEA what Hawley was doing - it almost looked like magic to him and he looked like he could scarcely hope that Abbie could be saved. I got no inclination that he was giving up - more like he was ready to fall over Abbie's body sobbing, lol.

 

The one TM move that really got me was when Abbie finally started coughing up water and breathing in air, he sort of started toward her like he was about to grab her to him, but stopped himself short. Tom Mison killed his scenes, imo.

 

TM always kills his scenes. His terror and utter panic over losing Abbie (because he thought she was dead) but just heartwrenching. Abbie really is his everything and in moments where her life is in any risk, he loses it completely. She is his everything. Very telling.

[OakGoblinFly]

I'm torn between deliberate or just the actors. I don't fault Mison, only because he has chemistry with everything - the evidence is all over the show. Hell, his scenes with Miss Caroline show that, and she was a barely established character. Could be an acting decision by both, a directorial decision or just sometimes, you don't get the right mix/balance with your coworkers. It happens. Katia Winter was cast first and she never chemistry tested with anyone. Nicole Beharie was cast a bit after, and Mison screen tested with her, to ensure that the sole two leads worked well together. So the show knew that Mison and Beharie were magic together, and since they are the sole two leads, everything and anyone else didn't matter. However, Lyndie Greenwood did chemistry test with Beharie, maybe because of the deep storyline with the sisters. Hmm.. So again, strange that the Crane's didn't test (maybe they did and we don't know about it, to be honest).

 

 

The writers/showrunners have made some surprising statements recently concerning this. Very surprising actually. I won't spoil it but it can be found on the Internet. Very pleased with the comments, I will say.

 

 

I didn't find Crane's scenes with Caroline any more or less devoid of "chemistry" than those with Katrina - just different kind of chemistry.  I don't mind Katrina (or the actress) and I find the scenes/emotions between the Cranes very realistic and they resonate with me. 

 

I never, ever believe anything that the powers-that-be say about what will happen in future seasons -  they are media savvy and will do/say just about anything to create "buzz" for a show (and some just troll).  That being said, if what you're hinting at is true it leaves a very foul taste in my mouth.  :(

Totally agree.  I am assuming they are not played by the same actor. I know I could IMDB it but I'm too lazy at the moment. Anyway, the actor who plays Headless is perfectly perfect in the role. He somehow manages to impart the exact sense of forboding and terror that the Headless Horseman should, even down to  the tiniest of movements.  I am terrified of Headless but Abraham?   Not so much.

 

I also agree with the person way upthread...I don't need to see Headless in every episode. It kind of takes away from his whole persona if he's just trolling around the woods every night for no reason.  It makes his presence not as impactful as it should be.  I guess I didn't realize that Katrina is the only one who actuallly sees Abraham until this most recent episode...right?

 

This whole episode was fantastic. I need to re-watch it. I purposefully waited until yesterday (and daylight) to watch it since I was off work.I figured the Weeping Lady would completely freak me out...and she did but it was not as bad as I was expecting.  Everything about that entire storyline was great. Add me to the huge list of viewers who really loved Caroline and her interactions with Ichabod.  She served a lot of purposes, or could have, not the least of which could have been acting as Ichabod's clothing supplier.  I hate that they killed her off so quickly.  Ichabod's reaction when they found her body was heartbreaking. 

 

I don't mind Hawley...yet. Also, the actor is HOT so that never hurts. I could get with him being a love interest for Jenny but not one for Abbie, if that is where they are going.  He and Jenny seem to fit together more than he does with Abbie, just their personalities seem similar. They both have that kind of rogue vibe going.  I also don't get why it can't be the 4 of them in the Scooby Gang. Why does Hawley being around mean that Jenny can't be?   

 

If Katrina has to be around, I really wish she and Ichabod weren't actually married.  She could be his love or whatever without being his wife. I only say this because it's really the marriage aspect of their relationship that seems to drag everything down.  Anytime Ichabod meantions that he's married, you can almost hear shows gears screech to a halt. I don't know, it just doesn't fit in with everything else.  it doesn't fit in with the way Ichabod is around Abbie either.  The show may not be intending it, but there is more chemistry in one glance between those two than between all of the combined screen time between him and Katrina.  The constant declarations to Abbie that they only have each other, that they can only trust each other, that they are important only to each other don't help either.  

 

If they were just engaged, yes it would be hard for Ichabod to get past it when and if the time comes but he could do that. A marriage is going to be more difficult for him to leave behind...because there is no way the show can intend for Ichabod and Katrina to be together for the duration of the show...so he will be leaving it behind at some point.  I don't mean he would love her any less, I just mean marriage is a big deal, especially to someone from Ichabod's time.  It just seems that marriage is a bond that will be much more difficult for Ichabod to break.  That's not even getting into the legal aspects of it, which, would there even be any at this point? 

 

 

Headless/Abraham left the cottage to rescue Katrina (he flat out said so).  I thought it was indeed to show Headless as he appeared to Ichabod and Abbie and how he appears differently to Katrina ... I really liked the way that particular sequence was shot.

 

Ichabod was "promised" to Mary much the same way Katrina was promised to Abraham.  Whether or not there was an official documentation/proclamation of said promise is a different colored horse.

TM always kills his scenes. His terror and utter panic over losing Abbie (because he thought she was dead) but just heartwrenching. Abbie really is his everything and in moments where her life is in any risk, he loses it completely. She is his everything. Very telling.

 

 

This was one of the rare times I felt that Mison missed the acting mark ..... something felt completely off to me and I found myself giggling at the scene rather than being worried for Abbie or touched by Crane's fear. 

[phoenics]

Why do you need a romantic obstacle between Abbie and Ichabod when (1) Ichabod is married and (2) there aren't any plans of coupling Abbie and Ichabod>

I haven't heard them say - lately - that there are no plans to couple them. They did finally say that Ichatrina was a blocker to Ichabbie and that it wouldn't happen while Crane was married. That doesn't mean that there are no plans to put them together. It just means that it won't happen if/while Crane is married.

Edited October 22, 2014 by phoenics

[marceline]

As for focus on Abbie. She will get a love interest this season. We will learn about her/Jenny's family. Her mother will appear. We will learn why she is a Witness. The first half of season 1 was Abbie story centric, then switched over to Crane. Season 2 is Crane story centric, and at the halfway point will switch to Abbie. One must balance between the leads, however stories need to be fleshed out over episodes, and it takes time. The switch will occur mostly likely around episode 8-ish.

 

Thank you for this. I see conversation about Abbie being sidelined and I don't know where it comes from. (Well I know where some of it comes from.)  It's obvious to me that a huge part of this season is going to be about the Mills family. The show has clearly laid the groundwork for major revelations about the role of Abbie and Jenny's mother (who, I suspect we'll learn, isn't dead at all). The new sheriff obviously knows a lot that she isn't sharing but I have no doubt that she'll become pivotal in the back half. The first part of the season needed to be about positioning Crane and Katrina as a couple in the here and now so Moloch's forces can start pulling them apart.

 

I've said before that I expect this whole canvas to blow up towards the end of the season. Every episode shows us another example of one member of the Scooby Gang questioning their faith in another and Moloch/Henry/Horseman preying on that. Abbie/Jenny, Irving/Witnesses, Crane/Katrina all have been shown reasons to question each other even as the theme of trust gets hammered home ad nauseum.

Edited October 22, 2014 by marceline

[DearEvette]

I did not get this at all. Crane was the opposite of BLASE... In fact when Crane yelled this out - he honestly sounded destroyed and so, so utterly helpless and panicked. Especially since he couldn't do anything - for him - a person drowned was a death sentence. There was nothing you could do... He looked like he was about to run off weeping, wailing and gnashing his teeth... I didn't take his "She's drowned!" as a "there's nothing you can do" - but more as a verbalizstion of what to him was an unrecoverable situation... His helplessness and panic was so utterly palpable - it felt to me like one of the most powerful parts of the episode...

When he screamed "SHE'S DROWNED!!" and his voice went up an octave into some kind of wail - man... I just felt so sad for him... this strange mixture of pity and "AWWWWWW!!!!"...

I though TM was great - he's "Please please please please..." - he had NO IDEA what Hawley was doing - it almost looked like magic to him and he looked like he could scarcely hope that Abbie could be saved. I got no inclination that he was giving up - more like he was ready to fall over Abbie's body sobbing, lol.

The one TM move that really got me was when Abbie finally started coughing up water and breathing in air, he sort of started toward her like he was about to grab her to him, but stopped himself short.

Tom Mison killed his scenes, imo.

 

You nailed it.  This is exactly how I read that scene.   I thought his 'She's Drowned!'  was uttered in real panic/denial/fear.  For once Mr. Smartest Man In The Room was at a real loss.   When he pulled her out, I had not doubt, as a modern person, that she'd be revived by CPR because she hadn't been under very long and it is almost commonplace for us.  But this is a great reminder that for all the comic moments of Ichabod-meets-21st century, he really is a man out of time. Sure, he wouldn't know how to do the 'logging ceremony' that is obvious.  But CPR?  Not so obvious really.  Mison totally sold that scene for me.

[SnarkyTart]

This was a good episode for me.  I loved the ending with Jeremy sitting on the floor, feet splayed and sobbing, shot from the perspective below the floor and making him look like a giant child.  Good show.

 

The only way the show can redeem the Katrina character for me is to make her the ultimate villain of epic proportions.   Let it be that she ensorcelled Crane into believing he loved her.   Heck, make her such a complete liar that it turns out that Henry is not even Crane's real son.  Katrina is solely responsible for the creation of the two horsemen incarnations we've been given so far: Abraham and Jeremy.    Let the designation "Shard of Hellfire" mean that Katrina's evil exceeds that of mere horsemen, whom Moloch after all made very clear to Jeremy are "only soldiers."  Assuming that Moloch can't materialize in this world until all four horsemen are present and Moloch is provided the suitable earthly vessel to inhabit, let Katrina be solely responsible, and by her own design, for procuring that vessel...one of the witnesses perhaps?    Let Katrina's endgame be that she desires to be the bride of Moloch, defeating all that is good, and ruling over the post-Apocalyptic world with her groom. 

 

If I get all of that, perhaps I will forgive the show for its creation of such an insipid character. 

[cassandle]

 

Although I totally crack up that people on Sleepy Hollow must be so inured to crazy shit that a pool opening up in the middle of the library doesn't even merit an angry librarian coming over to tell them all to be quiet.

 

It's like they're treating it the same way vampires and demons were looked at in Sunnydale.  Everyone knows something isn't quite right in town but they'd rather ignore it until their own Graduation Day happens and they're forced into action.  

[Sarah D. Bunting]

 

I am assuming they are not played by the same actor. I know I could IMDB it but I'm too lazy at the moment.

Neil Jackson is Van Brunt. Jeremy Owens is the HH. There's a third guy who's the HH when he's riding, versus walking on foot.

[DJG1122]

This was a good episode for me.  I loved the ending with Jeremy sitting on the floor, feet splayed and sobbing, shot from the perspective below the floor and making him look like a giant child.  Good show.

 

The only way the show can redeem the Katrina character for me is to make her the ultimate villain of epic proportions.   Let it be that she ensorcelled Crane into believing he loved her.   Heck, make her such a complete liar that it turns out that Henry is not even Crane's real son.  Katrina is solely responsible for the creation of the two horsemen incarnations we've been given so far: Abraham and Jeremy.    Let the designation "Shard of Hellfire" mean that Katrina's evil exceeds that of mere horsemen, whom Moloch after all made very clear to Jeremy are "only soldiers."  Assuming that Moloch can't materialize in this world until all four horsemen are present and Moloch is provided the suitable earthly vessel to inhabit, let Katrina be solely responsible, and by her own design, for procuring that vessel...one of the witnesses perhaps?    Let Katrina's endgame be that she desires to be the bride of Moloch, defeating all that is good, and ruling over the post-Apocalyptic world with her groom. 

 

If I get all of that, perhaps I will forgive the show for its creation of such an insipid character. 

 

Sorry, haven't figured out the quote button yet. Moloch said Katrina was to be a vessel. Wonder if he means for her to be a vessel for HIM?

[Iamsweetdee]

Oh, I completely missed that as I thought the "Shard of Hellfire" was referring to Mary. I truly thought Moloch said something about "her" dying. Oh well. 

[officetemp]

If I'm not mistaken, Moloch said that Katrina was "one of the shards of Hellfire" and that he wanted Henry/Jeremy to "turn her" and not to kill her.  He was angry at Henry/Jeremy for calling up the Weeping Lady because the Weeping Lady could have killed Katrina and put Katrina out of Moloch's reach.  Evidently, Moloch has grand plans for Katrina.  Perhaps using her for a weapon?

 

I agree with the not enough Mills Sisters and not enough Cpt Irving this season so far.  These are the characters/interactions that we grew to love last season.  Why mess with all that great chemistry?

 

I think Katrina could be a pretty good character, but the writers haven't shown us why we should care about her.

 

Moloch said Katrina was to be a vessel. Wonder if he means for her to be a vessel for HIM?

That would be awesome.

Edited October 23, 2014 by officetemp

[cheyz]

Did Mary really take a cruise across the Atlantic all by herself, or did she have a retinue? Also she was the one who set up the meeting, not Katrina. I don't think Katrina is evil, but she was already used to lying, being a spy and all.

[GinevradiBenci]

 

Which reminds me ... whatever happened to the Irving/Jenny vibe of S1?

I'm not positive that they've had any scenes together since then. I was starting to get pretty invested in that ship, too. I suppose it has the possibility of continuing...if we ever see either of them for more than five seconds.

[TheHappinessHotel]

What an absolutely terrific episode!  TM's performance was spot on and he really delivered.  I really felt for him when Caroline was killed (I wish they hadn't as she could have been a great character to pop up from time to time).  You really felt his grief and despair when he thought Abbie was gone.  I love Ichabod more and more with each episode!

 

As for the Ichabod/Abbie pairing.  I still do not see it and I am know to be a huge shipper!  I love the fact that they are so close to one another as friends/witnesses.  A romantic pairing would completely ruin the show for me.  For once, a TV show isn't going the obvious and overdone route of pairing the 2 main leads.  I'd much rather seem a relationship build between Hayley and her, but him kissing Jenny ruined that for me.  I hope they decide to keep him on as I am enjoying his character.  Like I said in another thread, I am completely content with no real romances being part of the storyline.  It just doesn't need it!

 

Speaking of Jenny...I miss her!  We need more of her and Irving.  

 

ETA:  Perhaps someone could explain something to me.  The Weeping Lady was a story that was passed through the years.  Didn't Henry "re-awaken" her though?  Or just re-awaken her enough to kill people?  That part confused me.  I wasn't sure if she appeared in this day and age or she had been appearing for centuries.  

Edited October 23, 2014 by TheHappinessHotel

[Indi]

        --I feel like a broken record for talking about this topic again. I discussed it ad nauseum during Season 1. But I still don't know if it's Katia Winter who brings the scenes down, or if she and Tom Mison just don't play well off each other.

Katia Winter is a godawful actress, among the worst I've ever seen, but Tom also does his part phoning it in during their scenes. Maybe it's because he's not getting anything worthwhile from Katia's blank face, but he isn't putting much effort either. Their anti-chemistry is mind-boggling. It should be a lesson to these showrunners, as well as to any other showrunner out there. Screen tests for chemistry between the prospective romantic leads should be an absolute must.

 

Tom Mison also didn't have any chemistry with the actress playing Mary, but see, there was a point to that. With Ichy and Katrina it doesn't make sense. It's a catastrophe. 

[cassandle]

 

Perhaps someone could explain something to me.  The Weeping Lady was a story that was passed through the years.  Didn't Henry "re-awaken" her though?  Or just re-awaken her enough to kill people?  That part confused me.  I wasn't sure if she appeared in this day and age or she had been appearing for centuries.

 

I think Mary haunted the place for years but the townspeople just heard her crying and caught glimpses of her--Abbie seemed to know some of the legend but not the details.  But when Henry "awakened" Mary he made her dangerous or sentient--he changed her somehow to be aware of Ichabod and the women in his life and want revenge that she never cared about before.

[phoenics]

As for the Ichabod/Abbie pairing.  I still do not see it and I am know to be a huge shipper!  I love the fact that they are so close to one another as friends/witnesses.  A romantic pairing would completely ruin the show for me.  For once, a TV show isn't going the obvious and overdone route of pairing the 2 main leads.  I'd much rather seem a relationship build between Hayley and her, but him kissing Jenny ruined that for me.  I hope they decide to keep him on as I am enjoying his character.  Like I said in another thread, I am completely content with no real romances being part of the storyline.  It just doesn't need it!

You know - I totally get it that some people don't see Ichabbie and don't want it. That's fine.

But - race actually does matter here. It's LONG been a very tired, stereotypical and typical trope that if a black woman is involved in a tv drama and in any way close to a white male - she's never considered as a potential love interest. Ever. If she has a lovelife, it's shown offscreen - or the character is treated as though her personal life doesn't exist - the character only seems to have any importance if it impacts another white character.

Thus - the concept of being tired of them pairing the male/female leads together? Well - yeah we've seen that ad nauseum, but the ONLY time we've ever seen a black female character actually shown having a full life on a tv drama is on a Shonda Rhimes produced show. And that's just been in the last 2 years.

That's it.

As a woman of color - I'm tired of that. I'm tired of expecting that the black female characters will get the short end of the stick. It's borderline insulting to see the Abbie character not able to explore romance - with the lead or anyone else - and her reduced by some fans into this "independent woman who doesn't need or have time for a man" <--- that is SUCH a negative and dangerous stereotype.

So, I guess what I'm trying to say is that I get the overall frustration with pairing up the male/female leads of a show - but given the long and frankly racist history of dealing with black or woc characters on tv dramas and their personal and romantic lives being pretty much erased (unless Shonda Rhimes is involved), then might I humbly suggest that maybe - since Sleepy Hollow has such a diverse cast - MAYBE Sleepy Hollow isn't the right show to go down the "keep the leads apart and only show the romantic life and times of the white characters and leave the black woman character nearly asexual?"

It's not the right show to resolve THAT trope (male/female leads always hooking up) because in order to resolve that trope, you fall into several other damaging and negative tropes for the WOC on the show. Aren't there countless other shows where we can explore having two male/female leads who never get together? Why does it have to be THIS SHOW?

Intersectionality matters.

I don't want to have to fret and worry that a show will shaft WOC characters repeatedly because Shonda Rhimes isn't involved, lol.

JMHO.

[savinggrace]

I like Hawley. He's a nice counterpoint to the more noble, uptight Ichabod. I can't wait to see them get on each others nerves. I wish they hadn't created a history between Hawley and Jenny because I would love to see Abbie hook up with him but not at the expense of her relationship with her sister.

 

On a random note, I love the tallness being served by Crane and Hawley. It seems every actor over 6-feet was cast on this show. Outside of Sleepy Hollow everyone is 5'2".

[DkNNy79]

I really enjoyed this episode as well.

 

I really like the friendship between Ichabod and Abbie.  If it slowly develops into more, I wouldn't object. If it doesn't, it wouldn't upset me too much as long as Abbie has someone.  I don't mind Hawley and normally wouldn't mind him and Abbie together, but the Jenny factor makes it icky for me.

 

I still am holding out for Jenny and Irving to get together.  Orlando ships them as well.  Love his tumblr page. 

 

I don't hate Katrina, but she and Ichabod do nothing for me.  No chemistry.

[HalcyonDays]

On a random note, I love the tallness being served by Crane and Hawley. It seems every actor over 6-feet was cast on this show. Outside of Sleepy Hollow everyone is 5'2".

 

I think they deliberately casted someone who was as tall, if not taller than Tom Mison, solely because then Mison/Crane wouldn't be able to do that looming thing he does to try to intimidate any male who seems to display even the slighted interest in Abbie (see Luke and Andy).

 

One of my favourite lines in an episode recap was the recapper pointing out that it must be "novel" for Mison to be able to actually look someone straight in the eyes. I got a kick out of that. Since the joke is that male actors are pretty short in Hollywood, I bet it is novel for him, at a nice height of 6'1" or whatever he is.

 

I'm not sure if I mentioned it here already, but Nick is an almost mirror to Crane in appearance also which I think is deliberate. In the past few episodes, Crane has been wearing dark clothing. The shirt, boots and breeches are all black, the coat is very dark blue. He has dark shaggy hair and dark beard. Nick, on the other hand, has been wearing a white shirt, light brown pants. Nick has blond shaggy hair and a blond beard (full beard, not scruff) and of course both men have blue eyes. Not sure if its a coincidence (the height is deliberate), but thought it interesting.

[savinggrace]

I think they deliberately casted someone who was as tall, if not taller than Tom Mison, solely because then Mison/Crane wouldn't be able to do that looming thing he does to try to intimidate any male who seems to display even the slighted interest in Abbie (see Luke and Andy).

 

One of my favourite lines in an episode recap was the recapper pointing out that it must be "novel" for Mison to be able to actually look someone straight in the eyes. I got a kick out of that. Since the joke is that male actors are pretty short in Hollywood, I bet it is novel for him, at a nice height of 6'1" or whatever he is.

 

I'm not sure if I mentioned it here already, but Nick is an almost mirror to Crane in appearance also which I think is deliberate. In the past few episodes, Crane has been wearing dark clothing. The shirt, boots and breeches are all black, the coat is very dark blue. He has dark shaggy hair and dark beard. Nick, on the other hand, has been wearing a white shirt, light brown pants. Nick has blond shaggy hair and a blond beard (full beard, not scruff) and of course both men have blue eyes. Not sure if its a coincidence (the height is deliberate), but thought it interesting.

 

I like that they're making Hawley at least a formindable rival. If they're not going to pair Abbie with Crane don't insult us by putting her with someone who isn't anywhere near Crane's level. Hawley's, not as noble as Crane but is still intelligent and can give Crane as good as he gets.  I wasn't feeling that short, annoying cop who wanted to rekindle the flame with Abbie during the 1st season.

 

I'm starting to wonder if anyone is going to get laid on this show? I get that they're trying to thwart the Apocolypse but isn't anyone horny?

[Sakura12]

I'm happy that Ichabod doesn't know CPR, since they pretty much have him knowing everything all the time. It was nice to see him not know something. 

 

Is this the first time Katrina's actually used her magic to save herself? I was wondering if she actually lying about being a powerful witch along with all her other lies. She's still the least helpful witch ever. Ichabod is finally starting see who his wife really is, so that's a good thing. 

 

I'm not a shipper but I really like Ichabod and Abbie's friendship. Hawley's hot but he's kind of serving the same purpose as Jenny and taking away her screentime. I'd rather just keep her. 

 

It's funny to me that the actress that played Mary is playing a Brit spying for Washington on TURN while being mad at Ichabod for being turned to Washington's side. 

[johntfs]

This was a wtf for me. How 'bout some useful information? What a waste of powers and a bird messenger.

 

Katrina is not going to send off stuff that would prove that she's just there to spy on Abraham and Jeremy. They'd stick her in the binding ritual as soon as they found the note. Instead, that was a trial run. If it gets through, Katrina knows that method works and that she can send notes with actual, incriminating intelligence. However, if a jealous Abraham(and/or a smug Henry) comes in clutching the note, she knows that method failed and says something like "Oh, Abraham/Jeremy, darling, I'm sorry. It was a moment of weakness. I feel so lonely here, so isolated. I never knew where you or Jeremy are and it feels me with uncertainty. I just wish you would trust me more, confide in me, so that we can build a real relationship based on trust. Like the one I hav-, had, with Ichabod/your father..."

Edited October 24, 2014 by johntfs

[Indi]

But - race actually does matter here. It's LONG been a very tired, stereotypical and typical trope that if a black woman is involved in a tv drama and in any way close to a white male - she's never considered as a potential love interest. Ever. If she has a lovelife, it's shown offscreen - or the character is treated as though her personal life doesn't exist - the character only seems to have any importance if it impacts another white character.

You're describing Sleepy Hollow to perfection. That's exactly how they're treating their female lead. Even the supporting white female character has had more development in that area. Shameful.

[Dobian]

Amen to all of this!  Why can't black women leads have their shot at this so-called worn out trope?

Lost had Rose and Bernard.  And of course who can forget Tom and Helen from the Jeffersons?  True, there aren't a lot of them, but there have been some on tv.  I don't want an Ichabod/Abbie romance, it would just wreck their dynamic.  Has nothing to do with white/black.  I think the show is heading in this direction, however.  The cracks between Ichabod and Katrina really started showing this past episode, as well as Katrina starting to bond with Abraham.  The irony is, those two are sort of made for each other.  They're both boring while Ichabod and Abbie are both dynamic.  I wouldn't be surprised if she turns at some point and actually joins Abraham for real.  That would open the door for an Ichabod/Abbie union.

Edited October 24, 2014 by Dobian

[Watermelon]

Lost had Rose and Bernard.  And of course who can forget Tom and Helen from the Jeffersons?  True, there aren't a lot of them, but there have been some on tv.  I don't want an Ichabod/Abbie romance, it would just wreck their dynamic.  Has nothing to do with white/black.  I think the show is heading in this direction, however.  The cracks between Ichabod and Katrina really started showing this past episode, as well as Katrina starting to bond with Abraham.  The irony is, those two are sort of made for each other.  They're both boring while Ichabod and Abbie are both dynamic.  I wouldn't be surprised if she turns at some point and actually joins Abraham for real.  That would open the door for an Ichabod/Abbie union.

Rose and Bernard were absolutely not the leads of Lost. And the Jeffersons is about 40 years ago.

 

I understand the fear that it would wreck the dynamic, but I choose to believe it would only alter it in positive ways. We get needy ass Katrina out of the way and I can't see any negatives to their coupling at all.  I can't imagine this show working if we have to deal with Katrina for all of this season and the next.

[Dobian]

I don't know why it matters if the characters are leads or not.  There have been interracial couples on tv is all.  Boy Meets World had an interracial teen couple.  My Cousin Earl, Community...I'm not going to look them all up.  I don't see how a romance between Ichabod and Abbie adds anything.  Whevener writers put two characters who have been friends into a relationship, they inevitably wreck it.  The reason is because all the excitement and drama is in the build-up, the tease of "will they or won't they".  But as soon as they consumate, it becomes dull and boring, so the writers decide to shake it up again by breaking them up.  Standard soap opera trope that gets used to death in serialized tv shows.  But it ends up ruining the original dynamic between the characters so it's never the same again.

[HalcyonDays]

The reason is because all the excitement and drama is in the build-up, the tease of "will they or won't they".  But as soon as they consumate, it becomes dull and boring, so the writers decide to shake it up again by breaking them up.

 

The problem is not simply hooking a couple up, it's when the writers tend to hook the couple up. Shows tend to drag the will they/wont they trope for seasons if possible, only because in their mind they want to tease the viewers to keep ratings high. What inevitable happens is that as the show ages, ratings start to decline. The writers then finally will pull the trigger and hook the couple up, as a last minute way to boost ratings.

 

By that time the couple officially gets together, the show has significantly declined in story ideas and quality, the actors are tired of it and the ratings are already much lower than what the show or network want. A romance done right will not ruin the show. Note - if it is done right.

 

SH though, is unfortunately doing too much of this ship teasing for my taste, only because I would love to see Ichabbie happen and will be thoroughly pissed if it doesn't - and sooner than later. I have no patience at all, what can I say. I want some payoffs soon, not just platitudes to keep me hooked.

 

All of this Mrs. Crane stuff, the amazing hugs, the eye-banging, the 'wedding vows' that Crane always sounds like he's saying to Abbie, the declaration that it is only them, the fact that they seem to love being in each others company and in my view, they have been positive influences on each others lives. They make each other better people and that is a good relationship to have. It's very complimentary, Yin and Yang.

 

I have never shipped couples ever. Didn't even know what the slang meant until recently. I used to watch Castle and thought it would be good if Castle and Beckett got together, but whatever. As long as the characters keep me interested. Ichabod and Abbie, though? The last minutes of the Pilot episode, when they standing on the street, looking at each other with these little smiles, boom! I was in, I was hooked and I shipped. Hard.

 

Credit goes to Beharie and Mison who I would call Actor Soul Mates. Most couples on TV who are romantically together don't have a smidge of the chemistry that these two do - and they are solely platonic characters now. However, its not a hard stretch to imagine things becoming more romantic between the characters. Being - and enjoying - each others company all of the time, being attractive people, having a supernatural bond as Witnesses - why wouldn't something more happen? I'm always surprised and confused when people say they want them to remain friends. Why? Why waste that amazing explosive chemistry?

 

There is a difference between throwing two pretty people together just for the sake of ratings and for something to write about. But Ichabbie is different, at least for me. Again, something about the chemistry between the actors and the overall growing bond and relationship between the two. It just seems like a natural progression. But again, I'm impatient. Sooner than later, show. Bring on the Ichabbie goodness. Or stop ship-teasing me unless you really mean it!!