S19.E08: Week 6: Pitbull

[Serendi]

 

as far as I know there have been three practicing LDS members on the show

 

As contestants, anyway. Don't know if they're all practicing, but Derek and Julianne Hough, Lacey Schwimmer, and Chelsie Hightower are all from Mormon families; I think Lindsay Arnold and Allison Holker are as well. I wouldn't be surprised if there are others. Ballroom seems to be a big thing in Utah. 

[Thadeeeyus]

ITA. I know I should just appreciate that Julianne was complimenting Mark (and has done so for a few weeks now), but her comment to him 2 seasons ago still rubs me the wrong way (because Mark's had a lot of great partnerships and great choreography over the years). There was no need to allude to it again, which she could have avoided by simply leaving out those unnecessary last 2 words.

 

Exactly!  Cannot stand Julianne.

 

I feel that this show has gone way overboard with the skimpy costumes and the sexiness of the dances.  The outfits that last season's Candice and this seasons Sadie wear are a refreshing breath of air and very much appreciated by this viewer.  However, the path taken by the family, the producers, TPTB, to get to these costumes and dances is embarrassing and annoying to watch.  One mention at the beginning of the season would have been sufficient to explain the modesty for the entire season......

 

This is important to remember for all contestants for anything that is aired on the show.  The producers make the decisions about what to air and they will always go with something that creates a buzz.  The stars don't just sit in front of a camera and say whatever they want to say.  They are asked pointed questions in order to get comments that reflect what the show wants to present.  And the more controversy-provoking, the better. 

[LadyMustang65]

I believe Witney is also Mormon.  She and Lindsay Arnold were/are best friends who danced together, auditioned for SYTYCD together and were on the show together.

[Morgan of Hed]

There's a ton of Mormons on these dance shows, every year on SYTYCD if there's a ballroom audition it is 90% likely to be people from Utah. None of those girls seem in the least bit shy about their bodies.

[realdancemom]

I believe Witney is also Mormon.  She and Lindsay Arnold were/are best friends who danced together, auditioned for SYTYCD together and were on the show together.

Jenna is another one that is from Utah and has been friends with Witney, Lindsay, and Brittany for a long time.   

[DollEyes]

I am okay with Jonathan going because it means Miss Bad Attitude Allison is out.

 

  Jonathan was a nice guy, but come on. He only had the votes of those who remembered him from Mean Girls. He wasn't gonna win.

 

  Re the second point, I respectfully disagree. I've followed Jonathan Bennett's career since he was on All My Children, which was before Mean Girls. The problem wasn't Jonathan-it was his partners. Allison thought that she, not Jonathan, was the star while Peta gave Jonathan a way too complicated Jive during "Switch-Up Week." However, I voted for Jonathan because I liked him. JB wasn't the best dancer by any means and I didn't expect him to win, but Waltrip is so much worse. "Going out on top" means nothing to me if they're leaving too soon and Jonathan did.

[Andiethewestie]

Just to clarify the routine was a Jitterbug, not a Jive, and I say that because it is absolutely not complicated, it is easy to learn basic rock steps especially when there's no technique involved. The Jitterbug is a social dance, and as such the judges cannot mark down for footwork because there are no footwork rules in Jitterbug, you can be flat footed, it's even encouraged.  Moreover, there's no marking down for hyper extended arms like there is in Jive. Jive is very controlled and all about technique. There are no lifts in Jive.

The lifts in the Jitterbug were extreme, but I have to say Peta took all the risk. Johnathan's timing was off, that is very scary and Peta basically had to hoist herself and Johnathan followed. He got lost on basic rock steps because he couldn't dance in the groove of the music, it got ahead of him. That's not a teacher's fault, it's his own insecurities about what came next. I bet they did it fine in rehearsal. Unfortunately musicality wasn't Johnathan's strong suit. He thought he did fine, but if he watches it back he'll know he was off time.  If we want to compare, take a look at Ty Murray season 8, not a great dancer but he had good timing, and that was all the difference. As a result He did a very admirable, clean Jitterbug. 

Edited October 22, 2014 by Andiethewestie

[sinkwriter]

 

If we want to compare, take a look at Ty Murray season 8, not a great dancer but he had good timing, and that was all the difference. As a result He did a very admirable, clean Jitterbug.

 

I didn't watch that season so I'm curious: during his jitterbug, did Ty Murray have all the lifts and throws that Jonathan had to do? Did he do that routine during a week where he had to switch partners? Because I would imagine working with a brand new partner (whose body you aren't familiar with) and having to mentally prep yourself to throw her around a much as Peta had Jonathan do in that routine would throw off many people's timing.

Edited October 22, 2014 by sinkwriter

[ali59]

Thanks everyone who mentioned that many of the pros are also LDS.  They know that when you are performing, you wear the appropriate costume/uniform.  They also know that these dances are just a performance.  They have nothing to do with real life or beliefs.  I understand the difficulties of non-pros like Sadie.  She is not a performer and she is young.  But as someone mentioned before, don't sign up for the show if you're not willing to do what is required.  I really think that TPTB need to steer away from such young contestants.  That would alleviate a lot of the problems.

 

I really want to love this show but TPTB are making it really difficult.

 

P.S. - Hated Pitbull!  I could not understand 3/4 of what he said.

[OakGoblinFly]

Thanks everyone who mentioned that many of the pros are also LDS.  They know that when you are performing, you wear the appropriate costume/uniform.  They also know that these dances are just a performance.  They have nothing to do with real life or beliefs.  I understand the difficulties of non-pros like Sadie.  She is not a performer and she is young.  But as someone mentioned before, don't sign up for the show if you're not willing to do what is required.  I really think that TPTB need to steer away from such young contestants.  That would alleviate a lot of the problems.

 

I really want to love this show but TPTB are making it really difficult.

 

P.S. - Hated Pitbull!  I could not understand 3/4 of what he said.

 

 

Just because you "sign up" for Dancing With the Stars I don't think that means you have to do whatever is asked.  All that is "required" is that you to the show with a willingness to learn the dances.  I don't think that requirements should encompass wearing costumes or performing routines that make you uncomfortable (be it due to age, morals, religion, whatever) just because the pros or other celebrities are willing to do.  

 

That being said, I really don't think it is necessary for the powers that be to shove this particular plot point front and center every week just like we don't need to hear about all the "relationship" issues with Val and Janel or Lea competing against Alfonso (she should be competing against herself).  I get that this is first and foremost a television show, still, one would think that watching non-professional dancers learning to dance would be "entertainment" enough.

 

I never heard of Pitbull before and I hope I never do .... what a waste of a judge's spot; then again, the other three weren't much better (though Julianne does occasionally give solid, useful critiques - I wish she would do that more (without the shade))

[Uke]

I didn't watch that season so I'm curious: during his jitterbug, did Ty Murray have all the lifts and throws that Jonathan had to do? Did he do that routine during a week where he had to switch partners? Because I would imagine working with a brand new partner (whose body you aren't familiar with) and having to mentally prep yourself to throw her around a much as Peta had Jonathan do in that routine would throw off many people's timing.

 

Checking my spreadsheet, I don't see a jitterbug for Ty. He did a Lindy Hop with Chelsie Hightower, his regular partner. They weren't switching partners back then. Yes, there were lifts but to my eye they didn't look as complicated as those Jonathan did. It was a cute dance.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FuqIHlQm28

 

ETA: by complicated, I meant Jonathan had to do more than just provide a stable base for Peta to hurl herself on, over, and around him.

Edited October 22, 2014 by Uke

[iMonrey]

 

Julianne's mea culpa to Mark was still a slight. There was no need to qualify it with the pointed and inaccurate "this season."

 

It may well have been a back-handed compliment, but I'm going to be generous and suggest that Julianne was referring to the fact that Mark has to put up with Sadie's family micro-managing every one of their routines this season, thus the "generous" comment.

[dwtsgueststars]

That being said, I really don't think it is necessary for the powers that be to shove this particular plot point front and center every week just like we don't need to hear about all the "relationship" issues with Val and Janel or Lea competing against Alfonso (she should be competing against herself).  I get that this is first and foremost a television show, still, one would think that watching non-professional dancers learning to dance would be "entertainment" enough.

 

I've come to realize that DWTS is suffering from bad story writers...

Edited October 23, 2014 by dwtsgueststars

[Guest]

I mind Sadie's prudishness less than I minded Candace Cameron Bure's.  At least Sadie is a minor and not promoting the denigration of women in marriage.  

 

I wonder if the LDS church gives you a 'pass' for money-making opportunities.  Devout Mormons aren't supposed to work or play on Sundays, either, but that doesn't seem to stop them on The Amazing Race, or on this show, for that matter.  Though I don't know how many (if any) of the DWTS pros/troupe are devout now.  I think it's safe to say the Houghs aren't.  Even the 'kids' on SYTYCD have got to rehearse on Sundays, I would think.  

[SnarkyTart]

I've come to realize that DWTS is suffering from bad strory writers...

There's a lot of truth in that.  If they're going to keep up with the scripted storylines, they should at least hire some writers from shows like Grimm or Sleepy Hollow, and just take things as far as they can go.  That would sure be more entertaining than the endless showmances, moral and political dramas, and dead parents.

[missysays]

There's a lot of truth in that.  If they're going to keep up with the scripted storylines, they should at least hire some writers from shows like Grimm or Sleepy Hollow, and just take things as far as they can go.  That would sure be more entertaining than the endless showmances, moral and political dramas, and dead parents.

 

Hahaha!!! Well, for a reality dance competition they probably couldn't totally jump the track and write a supernatural storyline! ;-)

 

But this makes me think about a good point about TV show writers developing interesting plot points and story arcs based on the full spectrum of human experience not just the more polarizing topics like romance, politics, and religion.  One package that I thought was very interesting this week was Witney and Alfonso's package and it was based on something very real that happened. Witney showed her vulnerability as a still very new and young pro who is struggling to find her place amongst the veterans and do right by the celebs that she's assigned. Her embarrassment and distress over getting 5's with Michael was very real and refreshing bc we almost never see the pros in this position- it's almost always the celeb's storyline. It was something people could connect and relate to. Whether slightly manufactured or not, I was drawn in and felt something when I watched it.

Edited October 22, 2014 by missysays

[smiley13]

I mind Sadie's prudishness less than I minded Candace Cameron Bure's.  At least Sadie is a minor

 

I did not see anything "prudish" about Sadie this week or any other week.  She has worn costumes that were appropriate for each dance she has done.  Her rumba dress was gorgeous and flattering on her.  She is a young lady and I appreciate that she acts like one.

 

I don't recall being being up in arms when the "older" contestants wore modest costumes. 

[RedheadZombie]

At this point, I'd prefer all "stars" to be at least eighteen. I understand that they like to strike while the iron's hot - for instance Gabby Douglas, who won all around gold at the Olympics.  But they didn't cast Gabby, they casted (again) Shawn Johnson, who was of age.

 

They've long pushed the boundaries for a "family show".  Off the top of my head - Bruno's constant sexual innuendos, Carrie Ann's panting and drooling over young guys, many of the costumes, females doing a handstand while her partner spreads her legs and leers at her crotch.  Maks weekly fondling of Tom's butt.  Donny Osmond running up to Bruno, and Bruno throwing him down and simulating sex on top of him.  They are now full on courting a much younger audience.  I paused the opening montage of this episode to do something, and laughed at the freeze frame.  Someone (Keo?) is standing while he holds onto two females - bent over at the waist, and butt to his crotch.  It's something I've seen many times in hip hop and at clubs, but the move is meant to simulate sex.  That means I paused on a menage a trois.  I think they need to decide who their target audience is.  The move I described is aimed at young males.  I'm pretty sure the primary audience is families and women.  I'm aware I'm coming off as a horrible prude, but I was only bothered due to the concept of "family show".

[Andiethewestie]

I didn't watch that season so I'm curious: during his jitterbug, did Ty Murray have all the lifts and throws that Jonathan had to do? Did he do that routine during a week where he had to switch partners? Because I would imagine working with a brand new partner (whose body you aren't familiar with) and having to mentally prep yourself to throw her around a much as Peta had Jonathan do in that routine would throw off many people's timing.

 

I am sorry, it was a Lindy Hop, but the dances are very very similar, really the same social dance.  Ty Murray got a 4 from Len Cha Cha week one, he did much better with the Foxtrot week 2 but his partner fell. ,They didn't have the partner switch that season, but the Lindy hop was only week 3, so given his track record up to that point it was a very shaky with his partner, but he was really strong so the lifts were good.   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FuqIHlQm28  .  

[kitcloudkicker]

I don't think the issue is with Sadie's modesty, it's with any implied idea that anyone who isn't modest is somehow a worse person. I both respect Sadie's right to modesty and the other dancer's right to show more if they're comfortable. For what it's worth, I didn't really have issue with the ways that both Sadie and Candace phrased their requests - though with both there were a few moments that made me worry that they were skating the line into judgement/condemnation of others. Neither of them crossed it for me, though I can see how it may have come close for others. (And Sadie's parents make me uncomfortable in that they definitely seem on the other end of the line, but so far, in what's been shown on this show and not any others, they haven't flat out said it, so in the context of this show I'm inclined to let them be. Though I would like to see less of them. But is it terrible that I was just glad it was Mom/Grandma featured and not the dad again? It squicked me out a little less.) 

 

Sharna phrased it well on Afterbuzz - it's important that Sadie know that if she's in any way uncomfortable with something she's being asked to do with her body, she needs to speak up, and it needs to be respected. It brings up important lessons about consent, that are valuable outside of any religion aspect. Especially for young girls. And for what it's worth, I think Mark did a fantastic job in respecting that, and meeting her where was. 

[Andiethewestie]

My only beef with a puritanical approach to Rumba is that the Rumba left the building. Was there hip action? no. Was there cucarachas?, semi- without hip action, sliding doors? no, rope turns?  nope.  What we got was a sort of lyrical dance in flats. Good rumba is always danced in latin heels to accentuate the leg line. That didn't happen.  

[soapfaninnc]

My only beef with a puritanical approach to Rumba is that the Rumba left the building. Was there hip action? no. Was there cucarachas?, semi- without hip action, sliding doors? no, rope turns?  nope.  What we got was a sort of lyrical dance in flats. Good rumba is always danced in latin heels to accentuate the leg line. That didn't happen.  

Meryl danced a Rumba barefoot last season.

[smiley13]

Yes, many of the rumbas on the show have been danced in bare feet, so Sadie's flats did not bother me at all.

[spanana]

My only beef with a puritanical approach to Rumba is that the Rumba left the building. Was there hip action? no. Was there cucarachas?, semi- without hip action, sliding doors? no, rope turns?  nope.  What we got was a sort of lyrical dance in flats. Good rumba is always danced in latin heels to accentuate the leg line. That didn't happen.  

 

If Sadie didn't dance in latin heels it was likely more because of her height.  She's a tall girl and really Mark is too short a partner for her, if we are going to be technical.  In terms of DWTS they are great together, but I think it's why she often isn't doing the heels thing.  Also there have been many a rumbas on this show danced in bare feet, so it's certainly not just Sadie.  Even by pros.  Sharna even commented on Afterbuzz this week, not in relation to Sadie, how she misses the look of the latin heel in general as a lot of the female celebs are into wearing these bootie things instead as a fashion choice.  Anna had brought it up because they were talking about Janel's booties and how her oversized (ugly) skirt and the booties messed with her lines. 

 

I also have zero issue with having minor celebs on the show since most of the time they aren't the ones complaining about not wanting to dance certain dances or about their costumes or etc.  Most of the ones we've had, at least in terms of what editing has shown us, have come in very open to the process and willing to learn.  That is basically all I can ask.  If anybody is generally complaining about minors on the show it's usually on the fan side because they are afraid of dances getting too sexy between younger female celebs and older male pros.  Not so surprisingly, nobody seems to give a crap if young male celebs get sexy dancing with older females.  But the sexism topic is for another day.

Edited October 23, 2014 by spanana

[McManda]

Anna had brought it up because they were talking about Janel's booties and how her oversized (ugly) skirt and the booties messed with her lines.

 

Is that why Janel and her dance looked awkward? I didn't really mind the choreography in general, but something seemed off. That could be it.

[spanana]

Is that why Janel and her dance looked awkward? I didn't really mind the choreography in general, but something seemed off. That could be it.

 

I don't really know.  On Afterbuzz they thought she was good considering the difficulty of the routine and they noted how full of content it was, but Anna said she had a hard time seeing what was going on with Janel's legs and feet because of the skirt/boots combo.  Both she and Sharna thought the skirt was too long and looked ill-fitting and the combo of the skirt with the booties cut off her lines and messed with the perception I guess?  Personally I questioned if Val had her in a longer skirt on purpose, but I have no idea.  Though they also noted the same issues Carrie Anne did in terms of how Janel loses her balance at times and how she doesn't really spot her turns well.  She turns well enough if Val is guiding her, but if she does it on her own she gets a bit disoriented.

[Andiethewestie]

Meryl danced a Rumba barefoot last season.

I didn't watch last season, but if Meryl danced Rumba barefoot for me, it takes away from Ballroom Rumba and becomes a lyrical rumba.  There are so many opportunities to dance freestyle, contemporary jazz now on this show that it seems to be a cop out to dance a Rumba without heels.    Janel's outfit was ill fitting, in one still shot it looks like half of the skirt is hanging off, that's unfortunate, but I didn't have an issue with the booties, since they were flesh toned and probably helped with support.  However, they were heels.  The girl's  Voltas and arm over arm runs were terrific and the heels stayed on. They weren't flats or bare foot.  

 

But, as stated earlier the issue with Sadie's Sanitary Rumba, was the lack of content.  It looked like an add for tampax instead of a dance of love.  It was mechanical, sticking her arm here, look at Mark there, look away, turn over there, it was pretend Rumba by numbers. And it lacked content big time.  The flats just re-enforced the " I'm a virgin not ready for rumba" vibe, even though children half her age actually dance rumba in ballroom classes in little children's latin heels without the hang-ups about it. 

Edited October 23, 2014 by Andiethewestie

[Uke]

Is that why Janel and her dance looked awkward? I didn't really mind the choreography in general, but something seemed off. That could be it.

 

Truthaboutluv posted a pic yesterday if you want to go back to page 3 of this thread (1113pm). The skirt was literally torn apart (or not stitched together in the first place).

 

The booties did her no favors, besides breaking her line above the ankle, making her legs look shorter.  The latin shoes have a suede sole and are designed to flex. The laceup booties, assuming they were off-the-shelf fashion footwear, wouldn't have a suede sole and would have restricted flexing at her foot and ankle.

[truthaboutluv]

Is that why Janel and her dance looked awkward? I didn't really mind the choreography in general, but something seemed off. That could be it.

 

 

It definitely was the reason for me as I noted in my first post after the episode, so I was happy to see Anna mention it. Honestly, I barely even paid attention to their chemistry or lack thereof because I was so distracted by her skirt. And I could tell the dance was packed with content but I couldn't really see just how well or not she was executing some of it because half of the time it just looked like she had sacks of multicolored cloth flying around her legs. It was a really, really odd costume.

[COESpiral]

For those kids who take ballroom classes on a regular basis, they're used to the movements involved in rumba.  For Sadie and all the other celebs it's the first time they've ever done those kinds of moves and better to have a watered down version than to try things that will make them look potentially ridiculous.  They don't want to look stupid, the pros don't want their partners to be mocked by the judges and viewers, and rumba is difficult to learn for a newbie dancer.  I'd rather see someone pull off a simplistic rumba than try a pro routine and fail spectacularly.

Edited October 23, 2014 by COESpiral

[spanana]

Besides the fact that I mostly think Sadie did a good job with what she was given, I think any issues she had with rumba were more about her being a fairly sheltered 17 year old than because of her religion.  Yes, you can obviously make the point that Sadie is a fairly sheltered 17 year old in part due to her family's religious beliefs.  But if Sadie was a kid who was raised doing partner dancing, like Witney and Lindsay for instance, then doing the rumba wouldn't have been weird for her.  It's also probably weird for her when you consider the first time she's doing a dance like that it's with a man about ten years her senior.  I still don't have a problem with minors on this show, but Sadie's discomfort to me was more age than religion.

 

Also not to continually bring it back to Afterbuzz, but I like hearing critiques from actual ballroom people and Anna and Sharna were able to provide that this week.   Neither one of them called out the routine for lack of content.  Anna noted a few technical things and she might have made reference to the hip movement, but I assume it had some content even if watered down because Anna is usually quick to point out lack of content.  She pointed out the lack of rumba content in Bethany's rumba for instance.

[Uke]

Besides the fact that I mostly think Sadie did a good job with what she was given, I think any issues she had with rumba were more about her being a fairly sheltered 17 year old than because of her religion.  Yes, you can obviously make the point that Sadie is a fairly sheltered 17 year old in part due to her family's religious beliefs.  But if Sadie was a kid who was raised doing partner dancing, like Witney and Lindsay for instance, then doing the rumba wouldn't have been weird for her.  It's also probably weird for her when you consider the first time she's doing a dance like that it's with a man about ten years her senior.  I still don't have a problem with minors on this show, but Sadie's discomfort to me was more age than religion.

 

Also not to continually bring it back to Afterbuzz, but I like hearing critiques from actual ballroom people and Anna and Sharna were able to provide that this week.   Neither one of them called out the routine for lack of content.  Anna noted a few technical things and she might have made reference to the hip movement, but I assume it had some content even if watered down because Anna is usually quick to point out lack of content.  She pointed out the lack of rumba content in Bethany's rumba for instance.

 

Both Anna and Sharna said they loved Sadie's rumba and gave compliments to Mark for his choreography in keeping the tone sweet instead of sexy.  Neither they nor the judges commented on any lack of content.

 

Beyond that though, I think rumba is difficult for a lot of the female stars, regardless of age.  I remember during All-Stars Melissa saying that she "dreaded" having to do a rumba, and lucky for her she didn't have to (this from a women who did both The Bachelor and The Bachelorette!).  With the other dances, the female stars can act the part of happy, sad, etc. But the rumba just seems to hit a little too close to home for many and expressing sexuality in front of a live audience and 15 million people probably feels like being a little too personally exposed.

[Andiethewestie]

Even on those types of shows people refrain from full critiques for a number of reasons. When Shirley Ballas was on Afterbuzz Season 15 she was basically told to zip it  by Louis Van Amstel when she had a reasonable critique of Melissa Rycroft, so  Anna knows there was very little content and it lacked flow, even Bruno pointed that out. I didn't see much resembling rumba, apart from the lack of  actual step sequences that are rumba, spinning your partner around isn't rumba if there is no technique involved. 

For those kids who take ballroom classes on a regular basis, they're used to the movements involved in rumba.  For Sadie and all the other celebs it's the first time they've ever done those kinds of moves and better to have a watered down version than to try things that will make them look potentially ridiculous.  They don't want to look stupid, the pros don't want their partners to be mocked by the judges and viewers, and rumba is difficult to learn for a newbie dancer.  I'd rather see someone pull off a simplistic rumba than try a pro routine and fail spectacularly.

Even beginners wear the proper shoes, especially when it's for a dance that improves the line and helps the technique along.   

Edited October 23, 2014 by Andiethewestie

[crowceilidh]

That's one of the reasons I stopped watching Afterbuzz.  I want to hear what really happened, but there's so much pandering and so little real information that I have given up.  Did anybody comment on Julianne's comment to Mark?  I want to hear what they have to say for about 5 minutes -- the rest of it is so sycophantic that I want to hurl.

[Andiethewestie]

 

The booties did her no favors, besides breaking her line above the ankle, making her legs look shorter.  The latin shoes have a suede sole and are designed to flex. The laceup booties, assuming they were off-the-shelf fashion footwear, wouldn't have a suede sole and would have restricted flexing at her foot and ankle.

Being a nude color the booties  for me weren't an issue at all, in fact there are actual professional latin dance sport booties similar to what Janel is wearing on the show.  Janel's shoes are an open mesh and lace up in the front (in black and nude colors) and these latin dance bootie/shoes are of similar shape with an open toe and stiletto heel :  http://www.veryfineshoes.com/CD3028Black_Gold   

Edited October 23, 2014 by Andiethewestie

[Zuleikha]

But the rumba just seems to hit a little too close to home for many and expressing sexuality in front of a live audience and 15 million people probably feels like being a little too personally exposed.

 

I feel like that's just the storyline that rumba tends to get to hype it up. It's all body mechanics and acting when it comes down to it, and what's more vulnerably sexy about rumba than Argentine Tango or salsa/mambo or some contemporary or jazz? Heck, the Standard/Smooth dances don't get thought of as particularly sexy today, but they require a lot more continuous close body contact than the rumba does. I think Sadie's country jazz hip gyrations and the country jazz storyline were more overtly sexual than the rumba. I can't help but feel like Sadie's discomfort was more about the idea of rumba than anything actually required to dance it well. (I also question how sincere the whole modest costumes thing is given that no one apparently had a problem with her country jazz outfit of pretty short shorts).

[SnarkyTart]

I watched the episode with a friend.  When Janel and Val started dancing my friend squealed, "What's up with that ugly skirt?!?"  I answered, "Her skirt?  I'm so distracted by those ugly shoes, I haven't noticed her skirt!!" 

[Uke]

I feel like that's just the storyline that rumba tends to get to hype it up. It's all body mechanics and acting when it comes down to it, and what's more vulnerably sexy about rumba than Argentine Tango or salsa/mambo or some contemporary or jazz?

 

Exactly. It's the reputation of the rumba as "the dance of love", "the vertical expression of horizontal desire", etc. There's actually more body contact in a quickstep. A salsa is a party dance. Argentine tango is d-r-a-m-a. But it's the idea of what rumba is and what is being expressed that can be intimidating.

[katha]

I thought Sadie's dance was sweet. Mark did a really good job, he's doing very well with her in general. Which can't be that easy, what with her micro-managing family and all. Their marks seemed about right, I thought. The choreography was nice, but some of the elements of a rumba were missing since Sadie wasn't comfortable doing them. 8s and 9s seemed appropriate, that the guest judge will do what guest judges do, oh well...(-;

 

It's understandable that celebrities are intimidated by the dance IMO, even though there might be more body contact in other dances. Even in Sadie's rumba, there was still an element of intimacy, of portraying a romantic relationship. If you're not used to that, I can see how that might be scary, particularly if you're 17 and rather sheltered.

[gryphon]

I am not a fan of the big group dance at the beginning of every show this season.  In seasons past, I remember really looking forward to the first dance of the season with all the pros---I fondly remember the routines to "Let Me Entertain You"  and "The Boys are Back in Town."  The dances were special.  The big group dances at the beginning of every single show are all blending together for me.  They are wonderful dancers but I don't look forward to seeing these dances like I did the others.  

 

I also miss the cheesy promenade down the stairs, the theme music and the announcer introducing each couple and their dance before they perform.  

Edited October 23, 2014 by gryphon

[OakGoblinFly]

Is that why Janel and her dance looked awkward? I didn't really mind the choreography in general, but something seemed off. That could be it.

 

 

The certainly contributed - however, I think the main reason Janel's dance looked incredibly awkward is her lack of balance; she;s very wobbly every time she's asked to turn and her side-by-side working isn't very strong.  

Edited October 23, 2014 by OakGoblinFly

[ChrisMcGraan]

The certainly contributed - however, I think the main reason Janel's dance looked incredibly awkward is her lack of balance; she;s very wobbly every time she's asked to turn and her side-by-side working isn't very strong.  

 

I agree that she usually looks off-balanced, especially when she's doing side by side choreography with Val. I think a lot of it might be that she's so focused on playing the part and selling the performance on her face that she doesn't translate that through the rest of her body. When she's in hold Val can pretty much pull her through the routine so something like ballroom is actually probably her better style.

[OakGoblinFly]

I agree that she usually looks off-balanced, especially when she's doing side by side choreography with Val. I think a lot of it might be that she's so focused on playing the part and selling the performance on her face that she doesn't translate that through the rest of her body. When she's in hold Val can pretty much pull her through the routine so something like ballroom is actually probably her better style.

 

 

Janel has waltz this week, it will be interesting to see if see can (1) perform something that doesn't rely on sexy-face and (2) correct her balance issues.

[Andiethewestie]

The certainly contributed - however, I think the main reason Janel's dance looked incredibly awkward is her lack of balance; she;s very wobbly every time she's asked to turn and her side-by-side working isn't very strong.  

 

The only thing awkward about Janel's dance was her uneven skirt. Nobody else has even attempted the intricate details of Samba, the voltas, the Samba roll, the over arm Samba runs, botofogo. 

 

Let's face it,  Sadie's all santized for her protection on the Rumba, but somebody should let her know, childish ass shaking is not Samba, or even Cha Cha even though that filler was repeated. It's something you'd see on Toddlers and Tiaras. But it is curious why she would  just "ass shake" on three dances, if you include that ugly country jazz crap,  which is a more stripper move than proper hip action.  Unless of course it's something she doesn't do for a reason.

Edited October 23, 2014 by Andiethewestie

[Andiethewestie]

I watched the episode with a friend.  When Janel and Val started dancing my friend squealed, "What's up with that ugly skirt?!?"  I answered, "Her skirt?  I'm so distracted by those ugly shoes, I haven't noticed her skirt!!" 

 I liked her shoes, and there's similar ones being sold as latin dancesport shoes, so they're proper ones at that.  

Edited October 23, 2014 by Andiethewestie

[kitcloudkicker]

Janel has waltz this week, it will be interesting to see if see can (1) perform something that doesn't rely on sexy-face and (2) correct her balance issues.

 

Someone else mentioned it upthread, but I hope Val pulls back a little on difficulty and focuses a bit more on precision. I'm not talking Michael Waltrip levels of easier, but enough that she can think less about the steps and lose herself more in the dance - harder choreography doesn't do her any good if she can only "mostly" execute it. Not to bring it back to Afterbuzz - but I liked Sharna's commentary this week - she said she learned from her experience with Charlie that packing with too much hard choreography doesn't do you any good if you don't give the dance moments to "breathe," more or less. That's when the star can really emote and connect with the audience. 

 

She has the Pretty Little Liars theme for music, which has potential for being a great creepy Halloween waltz. Her character on the show isn't particularly sexy either, so I'm hoping she can tap into that and show a different side to this crowd. I think she and Val have the potential to pull out something great, and I hope they do. 

[Andiethewestie]

Viennese Waltz is difficult, there are not a lot of steps to learn, but the execution is difficult. Not many can do it justice. So by the very nature of Viennese Waltz the choreography is challenging.  I was  very pleased at Janel's Samba because it demonstrated to me that despite her having a difficult week, she was working to learn to dance, not simply cop out with filler like so many of the others do. I don't really care if Sadie is or isn't a good girl, because I don't buy what this show is shovelling, she hasn't demonstrated that she can handle any choreography in Ballroom or Latin with any proficiency whatsoever.    

[spanana]

The biggest question mark to me on Janel and the Viennese Waltz will be her balance issues.  There is a whole lot of spinning and she's not great at spotting her turns.  Obviously Val can choreograph it in such a way where she doesn't have to do much turning on her own. She's okay when she has Val to guide her through turns.  But I think that would be her biggest obstacle with her here.

[SnarkyTart]

 I liked her shoes, and there's similar ones being sold as latin dancesport shoes, so they're proper ones at that.  

I'm glad for you that you liked them.  I hated them.  It doesn't matter (to me) if they were proper or not proper.  For me, they cut into the visual perception of her leg lines.  They made her lines look less finished than they actually were,shortened the appearance of her legs, and made her footwork look clunky.  None of which was objectively true.  I blame it on the shoes.  YMMV.

Edited October 23, 2014 by SnarkyTart

[Andiethewestie]

Spot turns?   American Smooth, come to think of it, you hardly ever see them on this show. Normally for spot turns you are in hold facing each other and it's often in combination with a basic, maybe to a whisk to promenade position.. something like that. Janel's dancing in hold is very nice, lovely topline.  If they dance International Viennese Waltz they will be looking at natural and reverse turns  whisks, fall aways, etc.maybe a fleckerl... It seems to be a combination of American Smooth and International on this show. From what we've seen so far, Janel does pretty well on Ballroom. Her out of hold turns, the chane turns she did well on the Foxtrot to the dip, she even had her arms overhead which is more difficult to centre, and on the jazz she did some nice centred pirouettes on the West Side Story piece, so she if she does that well again, she can build on that for the upcoming week.  Len is going to be looking for footwork really, so I hope she gets a lot of drill on heel leads and rise and fall.           

Edited October 23, 2014 by Andiethewestie