S02.E04: I Will Face My Enemy

[FurryFury]

I dunno, I just don't read that vibe between them. I kinda hope they never went there and never will. But then, I'm more interested in the younger generation, there's just more potential for character development (and speaking of character development, I so hope there's a good plan for Fitz, because right now, I feel like he's going somewhere interesting and I don't want to be disappointed).

[Sandman]

Yeah, I don't think May and Coulson ever slept together. I think a hook-up would put May's relationship with Coulson on a par with her relationship with Ward, and it doesn't feel the same to me.

Edited October 16, 2014 by Sandman

[JodhaBai]

I'm in the minority on this forum but I hate one expression Ming Na in this role

[Chicago Redshirt]

I forgot last season fid Fitz actually tell Gemma how he felt? Was she all like no I just want to be friends? I dont remember that happening.

 

When Ward trapped them in the compartment, Fitz confessed his feelings and IIRC Gemma didn't explicitly say "We should just be friends" nor "I feel the same way." Her expression could have read either way. She just implemented the rescue plan. 

[Texasmom1970]

Thank you Chicago Redshirt - I did not remember Gemma saying she did not like Fitz. I guess with her leaving on assignment and all he is dealing with that he is translating it as her not feeling the same way he does. I like the two of them hopefully she will be bacl soon from her Hydra excursion, maybe her being around Fitz wI'll help him recover some how.

[Actionmage]

To be fair to Jemma, when your best friend, who is trapped on the ocean floor with you, says 'Here's how you can survive. What Me? No, I'm in love with you and am willing to die so you can live'? You aren't try to set anything straight other than Option 3, which has to be better than either or both of you dying.  ( So IA with Chicago Redshirt.)

 

Convenient of Agent 33 to be exactly the same size as May in addition to having the exact same hair.

 

I was thinking more of skin tone. That her body would not match with the supposedly perfect match mask. And the dress looked different/funny on Agent 33, at least to me. Especially before she "became" May and everything "matched".

 

PS: that was truly some pretty underwear May had. I liked the color. Melinda apparently spends the good money on basics, which is unsurprising, character-wise. :D

Edited October 16, 2014 by Actionmage

[IWantCandy71]

JodhaBai, you aren't alone. I don't particularly like the character of May or the actress. Great action scenes with her in this episode, but overall, it seems that's the extent of the character. She....bores me. I think her friendship with Coulson is sweet, but that's the end of my interest in her.

 

To be fair, I've only watched a few episodes, and likely wouldn't be doing that if Adrian hadn't joined the cast. He and Gregg are the only reasons I bother(ed). There are quite a few reasons why, and I won't get into them. Suffice it to say that the premise of the show didn't interest me, and the things I heard as the show went along didn't compel me. I didn't even bother to check in when I knew Adrian was going to play Talbot, though I meant to. I think I'll go back and watch his scenes from season one, but overall, I'm good with just starting as a new viewer with season two, without really feeling like I've missed much. 

 

It's not just May, though. I don't particularly like any of the women. IDK why. Thus far, Ward, Talbot, Coulson, and Fitz are the ones that command my attention.

It is a shame that the nature of Adrian's character means he won't be in every episode, and won't have a major part in some of the shows he is in. I think personally that Coulson and Talbot's interactions should be a mandatory part of every episode. They are the only reason I am DVR'ng the show.

[kennyab]

I got the feeling that they would have done something with Agent 33 - like take her back to the bus to de-brainwash her, since they know that she's a SHIELD agent who was kidnapped by Hydra (they mention Coulson trying to talk to her in the prior episode), but because of the Hydra agents storming the compound, they had to flee without her.

 

 

SHIELD (aside from Simmons) don't know about the brainwashing yet. Coulson believes that Agent 33 joined Hydra of her own accord, and since I don't think that he's really looking at turning the Playground into a prison, there was no real reason to take her. I'm just wondering if she's going to turn out to actually be someone from the comics. The way they disfigured her face seemed to point to something specific. The only thing I could come up with is Madame Masque, but I don't see the point of re-imagining the character just to make her completely different (in Deathlok's case, he's had a number of different identities in the comics, so it's a bit more natural to treat it as a concept than a specific character).

[Chicago Redshirt]

Ward told Skye that Hydra brainwashes certain high-profile individuals. Presumably, Skye has shared this intel with the rest of the team. 

 

The notion of Agent 33 becoming Madam Masque seems intriguing to me.

Edited October 16, 2014 by Chicago Redshirt

[benteen]

Thank you Chicago Redshirt - I did not remember Gemma saying she did not like Fitz. I guess with her leaving on assignment and all he is dealing with that he is translating it as her not feeling the same way he does. I like the two of them hopefully she will be bacl soon from her Hydra excursion, maybe her being around Fitz wI'll help him recover some how.

 

She did tearfully hug Fitz and kiss him several times, though not on the lips.  This was right before Fitz executed his plan.

[Sandman]

I think it was the kisses seemingly everywhere but on the lips that carried the implication "I love you, but I'm not in love with you."

[kennyab]

Ward told Skye that Hydra brainwashes certain high-profile individuals. Presumably, Skye has shared this intel with the rest of the team. 

 

The notion of Agent 33 becoming Madam Masque seems intriguing to me.

 

Ahh, that's right, totally forgot about that. Thanks for the reminder.

[Dusty]

I think Fitz simplified the whole thing to a large degree.  I don't believe that Simmons left because Fitz admitted that he had feelings for her and she didn't feel the same way.  Unless something else happened during the break before she left that we never got to see. I can believe that's what he decided was the reason she left. I like that he's making his own friends.  I'm interested in seeing where his storyline goes. The FitzSimmons team was my favorite part of last season and I do hope that we get that back.  I think it is important that they both grow as individuals though and then they can come back together as an even more awesome team.

 

 

I was thinking more of skin tone. That her body would not match with the supposedly perfect match mask.

This took me out of the scene.  Since when does a face mask change the skin tone of the WHOLE BODY.  Not to mention she just happened to have the same hair.  This was an on the fly plan right?  It's not like they planned for Agent May to be there and Agent 33 to have as much matching as possible JUST IN CASE.  Also, now that I think about it. Does the face mask cover the whole head because when May took it off of the Talbot impersonator it just looked like it fit around the face.  Talbot and he have entirely different hair styles. Dammit! This is what happens when you think too much on a show like this.

[mac123x]

Pretty good episode, but I really don't want to see Raina under the thumb of Hydra.  She's much more interesting with a separate agenda.  Hopefully her alien Skye-daddy friend will be able to help her out with that thing on her hand.

[DeLurker]

Does anyone get the feeling that May and Coulson hooked up at some point in the past or almost did?

From season 1 there was a scene that read very ambiguous to me. I am fuzzy on details but I seem to remember Coulson being wound up pretty tightly and May was working out on some mats. She said something like they used to give the mats a good workout back in the day to relieve tension. It was either said or implied repeating the workout might relieve him of some of that tension.

But my brain is pretty fuzzy so maybe I am misremembering.

[Sakura12]

In Season 1, I figured they would go the predicable route and hook up Simmons and Fitz. I was thrilled when Fitz confessed his love and Simmons didn't feel the same way. She loves him but she's not in love with him. Which as much as it sucks is true to life sometimes and hardly ever done on television so I hope they keep it them as really good friends. 

 

As for May and Coulson, I just get the feeling they almost hooked up, then decided not too or were interrupted by a mission and took that as sign to keep things platonic. 

Edited October 17, 2014 by Sakura12

[kitlee625]

Well, I think the whole May / Agent 33 thing is supposed to be a suspension of disbelief kind of thing, but it could be that Whitehall decided to send Agent 33 there after Bakshi (Fake Talbot) told him that May and Coulson were there. Certainly an encounter with SHIELD was not on their original agenda. Of course that makes you wonder just where the Hydra base is and how fast they can travel, but it was several hours later (night v day) when Agent 33 first appears in the hotel room. It could be that Whitehall sent her there because she is former SHIELD and could be used to impersonate Agent May.

 

Or I could be completely overthinking things.

[blackwing]

By far my favourite episode of the series so far. Loved the op to steal that woman's stuff, with all the agents working together and with lots of moving pieces. Reminded me of the old Mission Impossible series.

Loved the May vs May fight. It was amazing. I wonder if Ming Na Wen is really this skilled or if the fight was done with harnesses. My favourite was the finishing move where she slammed evil May's head into the table.

[mac123x]

I had a fridge logic question that might have been addressed but I missed it.  According t the records Skye retrieved, the painting was removed from the basement earlier that day, before the party.  If that was true, why was Fake!Talbot at the party? Other than "it was required by the plot".

 

Agents of Product Placement Watch:  tonight's episode was brought to you by some cell-phone manufacturer.  I didn't catch the brand that Agent 33 was using, but the camera lingered on it quite a while. 

 

Also, has ABC started defictionalizing the Hydra merchandise yet?  I want Hydra-logo golf shirts to wer to my job, freak out some coworkers.

[Sandman]

I am certain that Marvel or ABC will start making HYDRA mugs or keychains or mousepads -- wait, are mousepads even still a thing? -- available before long.

 

My favourite was the finishing move where she slammed evil May's head into the table. 

 

 

That "Face, meet Table" leap looked terrifying -- like a flying curbstomp. I think Agent 33 should be Madame Dead now.

Edited October 17, 2014 by Sandman

[Ottis]

Also, is anyone else getting the impression that Hydra could do better if they just marketed some of their tech?  I mean it wouldn't be as much fun as being evil and all but legitimate business can be profitable, and Hydra people do retire.

 

 

It already feels like a VHS vs. betamax brand battle, but with more fighting. When the bad guys have researchers and offices and probably pension plans, I'm not sure what makes one so evil and the other so good. I actually like the thought of Hydra not being bad exactly, just taking a different approach. Kind of like the Babylon 5 philosophical difference between the shadows and the good guys. Wars/crises forces humanity to develop faster (if you manage to avoid ending the species) vs. goodness equals complacency.

[Sandman]

I'm not sure what makes one so evil and the other so good. I actually like the thought of Hydra not being bad exactly, just taking a different approach.

 

HYDRA doesn't really care if lives, cities or populations are destroyed. I'd like to think that's a practical definition of evil. Goodness doesn't always equate to lack of development. I think it's far too easy to dismiss active evil as simply misunderstood. I'm not convinced that HYDRA's ultimate goal is anything near as lofty as benefiting the species as a whole or encouraging the development of humanity. I think Alexander Pierce (despite his claims of wanting to make civilization better) was just as power-hungry as Garrett, for reasons just as selfish.

Edited October 18, 2014 by Sandman

[jhlipton]

I definantly need to find out Ming Na Wen's diet and exercise secrets because dayum she looks amazing! I did watch her every move in that dress thinking surely she was going to have a wardrobe malfunction.

 

Change "thinking" to "hoping".  Ming is HOTTTTT!  (and scary!!!!!!!!)

[romantic idiot]

Well, I think the whole May / Agent 33 thing is supposed to be a suspension of disbelief kind of thing, but it could be that Whitehall decided to send Agent 33 there after Bakshi (Fake Talbot) told him that May and Coulson were there. Certainly an encounter with SHIELD was not on their original agenda. Of course that makes you wonder just where the Hydra base is and how fast they can travel, but it was several hours later (night v day) when Agent 33 first appears in the hotel room. It could be that Whitehall sent her there because she is former SHIELD and could be used to impersonate Agent May.

 

Or I could be completely overthinking things.

 

I just figured that the mask changed light rays / projected holograms to cover the whole body and the sound / way of speaking as well. Not that it just covered just the whole face. It's not like Bakshi and Pasdar have the same skin tone, I don't think. 

[HistoryGirl]

 

 

Agents of Product Placement Watch:  tonight's episode was brought to you by some cell-phone manufacturer.  I didn't catch the brand that Agent 33 was using, but the camera lingered on it quite a while. 

I wasn't paying close attention and I rarely notice product placement except for the Chevy trucks, but is this the lingering camera shot angle of the cell phone that you were thinking of?  If you read the names you'll notice "Nat" which was meant by the director as an Easter Egg.  Nat is meant to be Natasha Romanov. 

 

For the poster who was asking about Ming-Na's/May's underwear while fighting in the silver dress, Ming-Na tweeted a photo of it. Seems she did have shorts on underneath! lol

[APSimpson]

Late to posting (as usual) but some thoughts on this latest episode:

 

I raged at the living room LED flat-screen when Talbot appeared to be HYDRA. Nooooooooo! How could you do this to me?! My dreams of a Coulson/Talbot bromance were shattering before my very eyes. Then when it became clear that Talbot was not Hydra and they were just using his likeness, I breathed a huge sigh of relief while munching on my artisan french bread sub sandwich. Maybe too much detail in this paragraph? LOL

 

I loved the scene with Hunter and Fitz when they were trying to save the Bus. Hunter had the line of the night when he said "is that it? Is the plane fixed now?" I was cracking up!

Mac continues to bring a calm presence to the show which I like. Good line when he said "all my exes are awesome." Here's hoping Coulson lets him work on Lola, although Lola is probably perfect as is. ;)

No Ward this week. Sigh. I think they've written him into a corner and don't know what to do with him now. I want Ward back kicking butt with the team. I want FitzSimmons back. I know, I'm living in the past.

Good episode, though. It was great to see a May fight scene which I was hungry for, and she looked very sultry in this episode. Ming-Na has such a warm, bubbly personality and it was fun to see her have some fun when May and Coulson were undercover.

[jhlipton]

That picture of Ming?  Dang near melted my computer!  Whoooooooooooo!!!!!

[Maverick]

 So it occurred to me that if HYDRA is pulling a talent grab on SHIELD agents, why was Simmons languishing at the entry level in HYDRA Labs, Inc. and why haven't they made a play for May like they did Agent 33?  

[FurryFury]

why was Simmons languishing at the entry level in HYDRA Labs

 

Because they didn't trust her. After she saved a life of a high-up, they started to.

 

why haven't they made a play for May like they did Agent 33?

 

They didn't have time? I'm sure they would have done this eventually if she hadn't escaped (and, well, being May, she'd probably escape anyway).

Edited October 19, 2014 by FurryFury

[Cranberry]

They also thought that rumors of her skills were exaggerated! After fighting her the first time, Agent 33 said, "So that's Agent May. I guess the file wasn't overselling her."

[Jamoche]

Also, has ABC started defictionalizing the Hydra merchandise yet?  I want Hydra-logo golf shirts to wer to my job, freak out some coworkers.

... two hours later, I emerge from tvtropes...

 

ThinkGeek has some Hydra t-shirts.

[Idiotboy]

 

n this case, all I could think of as I watched this episode is, "Ming-Na Wen is fifty!" She really is greater than any special effect.

So true. There were many elements that made this my favorite AoS episode to date and the May/Not!May throwdown didn't hurt. Coulson is becoming endearingly geeky ("Look: Cufflinks!" or "Why is it laser grids!") while May is amusingly exasperated by same. It also helped that Skye was being a team player back on The Bus. Treasure such moments: They will not come around too often.

[arc]

So May might hate coffee, but... how did Coulson know fake May was taking "let's get coffee" literally?

 

I mean, I don't like coffee, but if a kinda-more-than-friend invites me out for one with a vibe like that, I'll just get a hot chocolate or tea or something.

[Glory]

So May might hate coffee, but... how did Coulson know fake May was taking "let's get coffee" literally?

 

I mean, I don't like coffee, but if a kinda-more-than-friend invites me out for one with a vibe like that, I'll just get a hot chocolate or tea or something.

To be honest, I didn't think it was about the coffee. I think it was about Coulson implying that he and May had had a thing once upon a time when they really didn't. The coffee was just a metaphor. 

[Chicago Redshirt]

To be honest, I didn't think it was about the coffee. I think it was about Coulson implying that he and May had had a thing once upon a time when they really didn't. The coffee was just a metaphor. 

 

I think it's the reverse, actually. They had (at least) a fling back in the day and so asking her to have that coffee that they never had a chance for before is what seemed off.

 So it occurred to me that if HYDRA is pulling a talent grab on SHIELD agents, why was Simmons languishing at the entry level in HYDRA Labs, Inc. and why haven't they made a play for May like they did Agent 33?  

Garrett did make a play for May and quickly concluded she wouldn't join Hydra last season.

 

Seems to me that Hydra should have some sort of sense of who it can turn or not turn. Trying to turn a L8 agent like May is probably a foolish endeavor.

[arc]

To be honest, I didn't think it was about the coffee. I think it was about Coulson implying that he and May had had a thing once upon a time when they really didn't. The coffee was just a metaphor. 

But that's exactly my point! Does May hate coffee, or does she hate the potential for a re-fling with Coulson?  Because unless Coulson knows it's the latter*, it's hella flimsy for him (even if he was right) for fake May's acceptance of the offer to be how he knew that wasn't the real May.

 

* and aw, feel bad if that's the case, Phillinda shippers.

[karmadevi]

I assumed that the tell wasn't so much that May doesn't like coffee but that there was never a time they were supposed to get coffee and didn't (maybe because May hates coffee).  So the real May's reaction to his suggestion should've been more along the lines of "What the hell are you talking about, Phil?"

[Llywela]

I assumed that the tell wasn't so much that May doesn't like coffee but that there was never a time they were supposed to get coffee and didn't (maybe because May hates coffee).  So the real May's reaction to his suggestion should've been more along the lines of "What the hell are you talking about, Phil?"

Yes. Plus, that whole exchange was clearly a test - Coulson was already suspicious, he knew something was wrong, so he used the invitation as a test and Agent 33 failed.

[John Potts]

It seems like the Series is really finding its stride with another cracking episode (IMO). Like many others, I find it impossible to believe that Ming Na is fifty, but given that I first saw her as Deb Chen in ER in the 90s, I guess I shouldn't be surprised. I did think, however that there was no way she was wearing that underwear under that dress (not that it was an especially revealing dress, but I'm pretty sure she couldn't have been - though if it turns out she was, my apologies). Also, I couldn't understand why HYDRA would leave her underwear (not because I want to see her naked - OK, not just because I want to see her naked) but because basic interrogation technique (at least, if you're not bothered about human rights, and HYDRA clearly aren't) is to heighten the feeling of vulnerability of the victim. I mean, I get that Standards & Practices mean TPTB can't show anything "naughty", but they could film in such a way as to suggest nudity without showing it (much as the BBC did when Jo was captured on Spooks/MI:5). Plus, I couldn't believe that HYDRA would be so careless in restraining somebody who's such a SHIELD legend - even if you think her reputation is overblown, you'd think they'd make a better job of tying her up (hell, go out and pick up some bondage gear, I doubt the hotel staff would be that surprised if you're spotted with it).

 

thuganomics You know, Hydra, I get brand recognition, but your logo on folders?

 

I know! I'm starting to think that TPTB believe that all CIA agents are like Johnny Depp's in Once Upon a Time in Mexico and go around wearing T-shirts saying CIA!

 

Chicago Redshirt  And call me naive, but I got fooled by "General Talbot."

I didn't guess he was a double, but I thought he'd been brainwashed/subverted somehow.

 

Chicago Redshirt Things I'm not so psyched about:
May and Coulson totally talking openly about their spy stuff while at the party... [and]...The notion that Hydra purportedly does not have any idea who the director is also bugs.

It's a standard TV Trope (which I'm sure is somewhere on TVTropes!) that regularly bugs me that "even though I'm surrounded by people who could overhear me we'll pretend we're in complete privacy" - you'd think spy types would be more circumspect especially when they already suspect enemy agents might be present. And yes, given how thoroughly HYDRA had infiltrated SHIELD you would think they'd have an idea who was the new director (even if they thought it was, say, Maria Hill or Natasha Romanov).

 

Sandman I'm not convinced that HYDRA's ultimate goal is anything near as lofty as benefiting the species as a whole or encouraging the development of humanity.

 

I'm pretty sure they have a "Social Darwinian" approach, which would mesh with their original links with the Nazis. They do want to improve humanity, but believe the best way to do that is Oh-so-Coincidentally for them to be in charge.