S01.E03: Smile, Or Go To Jail

[rubyred]

One thing about Wes impersonating a lawyer: my take was that Wes had noticed that the cop on duty barely looked at a lawyer signing in, just sort of glanced to see if the person was wearing a tie and had a lanyard. I didn't get a good enough look to see if the ID he cooked up literally said "Wes Gibbons Esq." but I guess I fanwanked that he made a similar-looking ID but not a copy. So yeah he meant to imply that he was a lawyer but maybe he stayed on the side of not outright lying with that ID, in which case it's partly the duty officer's fault for not properly signing him in.

Edited October 11, 2014 by rubyred

[PrincessTT]

One thing about Wes impersonating a lawyer: my take was that Wes had noticed that the cop on duty barely looked at a lawyer signing in, just sort of glanced to see if the person was wearing a tie and had a lanyard. I didn't get a good enough look to see if the ID he cooked up literally said "Wes Gibbons Esq." but I guess I fanwanked that he made a similar-looking ID but not a copy. So yeah he meant to imply that he was a lawyer but maybe he stayed on the side of not outright lying with that ID, in which case it's partly the duty officer's fault for not properly signing him in.

 

I just rewatched that scene and he put his picture onto an  ID with the heading '2014-2015 PA Attorney's License' so he was definitely lying.

[FozzyBear]

I just rewatched that scene and he put his picture onto an ID with the heading '2014-2015 PA Attorney's License' so he was definitely lying.

It looked to me like he forged a PA bar card/law license, which I'm pretty sure is a no-no. It also looked like Wess has quite the little forgery shop going in his apartment. One more point for my Wess is not who he says he is, has some connection to the dead girl, and is running his own meta scam on everybody theory.

Given this is a Shondra show I know it won't be this simple, but I'm not sure one teenage experience at an all boys boarding school really calls a person's sexual orientation into question.

[possibilities]

Even if Aiden's one experience did indicate he's bi, that doesn't mean he can't be in a monogamous relationship with a chosen partner. It's just flat out a lie that bi =  must have multiple partners. Some do, some don't, as with straight and gay or lesbian people.

 

I have been on the verge of not continuing to watch this show, but this episode I thought was a slight improvement and now I'm thinking I may continue. I don't find it that hard to follow, but I do find the cacophany of plot with little depth for characterization a bit tiresome. What I'm thinking though is that if you can surrender to the intrigue, it does make a fairly decent guessing game. At this point there are several plausible answers to all the various whodunnits, and I'm at a point where so little TV is able to surprise me that if they fail to blatantly telegraph the answers, while keeping me convinced they do actually know where the are headed, that I am more likely to stay engaged.

[bantering]

 

It looked to me like he forged a PA bar card/law license, which I'm pretty sure is a no-no. It also looked like Wess has quite the little forgery shop going in his apartment. One more point for my Wess is not who he says he is, has some connection to the dead girl, and is running his own meta scam on everybody theory.

 

Yeah, I was wondering if he had watched Catch Me if You Can with Leonardo Dicaprio recently.

 

 

Even if Aiden's one experience did indicate he's bi, that doesn't mean he can't be in a monogamous relationship with a chosen partner. It's just flat out a lie that bi =  must have multiple partners. Some do, some don't, as with straight and gay or lesbian people.

 

It seemed like Michaela was willing to take Aiden on as a partner. She didn't dismiss him or give the engagement ring back to him after she questioned him about the experience. What she did seem to want is for him to be upfront about what his preference if they were to make the momentous step of putting on a big celebration in front of their families, signing the documents, and then entering politics (or even just high society) with the knowledge they have about each other, which seemed fair to me.

Edited October 12, 2014 by bantering

[LeGrandElephant]

It's totally valid for Micaela to say "don't waste years of my life if you know it's going to end badly". Or even just to be mad that he hadn't opened up to her. But the way she went about it by whining about the price of her dress was a real turn off to me.

Also confusing - why didn't their conversation include the questions "are you bi?", "Would you ever want to do it again?", etc. They didn't really discuss it much.

I think a bigger red flag was that he wanted to fantasize about staying home with the kids and having a relaxing life and she hated that idea. Both desires are fine but they don't seem very well matched.

[nenya]

Yes, because Annalise said to Frank, in front of everyone, "Leave the lawyering to the actual lawyers" when Frank suggested he draft a motion to find Gabriel. The students' reaction to that revelation was the first bit of natural, somewhat subtle reactions I've seen from them collectively, and it was hilarious. Especially Laurel.

 

Thank you for clearing that up! I agree with a poster above, in this show you do have to watch, and cannot do something else simultaneously. I had initially assumed she said that to one of the students (realistic considering they probably don't know how to draft a motion since they are only in day 5 of school, and apparently skip all the classes for this one). 

 

I kind of wish they had made this show take place during the summer break, kind of like Legally Blonde as another poster had mentioned in one of the threads, because I'm pretty sure if you skip your classes in law school, you can flunk out. 

[FozzyBear]

My guess is that Frank is an investigator or he went to law school but never passed the bar or both.

[lunastartron]

Is Michaela supposed to hail from an affluent background like Connor and Aiden? Because I don't really find her character, as written, to be particularly consistent with that history. Firstly, she's presumably equipped with a liberal arts degree from a private university yet has never encountered the concept of heteroflexibility? I'm around the same age as the core four and the number of people I know from boarding school and/or college who didn't hook up once or twice with someone of the same sex is probably less than the number who did. I seriously thought the Kinsey model and interpretation that you can occupy different points on it at different stages of life was relatively prevalent in Northeastern academia.

 

Additionally, unless Aiden was staking his entire political career on a vocal opposition to marriage equality or something, a one-off adolescent relationship would have a hard time even making it into a tabloid because no one would care. In Arizona, one of the most reliably Republican states in the country, a gay sheriff ran for Congress a couple of election cycles back. None of the local newspapers reported on it because being gay isn't a story in an of itself anymore - journalists waited until it was discovered he (a hard-liner on immigration and border control) had been dating a Mexican national who overstayed his visa until they broke any mention of his sexuality.

 

Michaela also generally strikes me as lacking credibility because affluence actually sort of precludes shelteredness in some respects. Half of the kids I know who went to boarding school had done a stint in rehab by high school graduation. I feel like she would be able to reign herself in from a full-on meltdown during the body removal or at least not lose the gigantic identifying engagement ring on her finger.

[helenamonster]

Well, first of all, Michaela can GTFO with her nonsense. Honey, sexuality can be fluid. People experiment. She could have taken the mature route and had an honest conversation with Aiden about his sexuality rather than rambling on about her damn dress. I applaud her for being upfront and I understand her being upset that he didn't mention it, but lordy. Calm down. But at the end of the day I think the fiance is just a plot point for Connor/Michaela tension and for Michaela to have an engagement ring that could be lost at the crime scene.

 

Oh, Laurel. You are smart and beautiful. Stop concerning yourself with Frank and please love yourself.

 

The actress who played the COTW looked really familiar. Is she a "Hey! It's that guy/gal!"? Also, the case itself kind of resembled an L&O: SVU rerun I saw this past week. The devoted follower of some serial killer had committed a copycat murder, her defense being that the serial killer had coerced her into it. Casey subpoenaed the killer, offering him a deal to move him to a federal prison (cuz apparently they're nicer then wherever he was?) in exchange for his testimony that he didn't tell the girl to do anything. The killer ended up flipping his story on the stand, not caring if he committed perjury because he was already serving 8 life sentences. The girl ended up being found guilty anyway, and Casey got her revenge by putting the killer in solitary confinement. Ok, all typed out it doesn't seem that similar but with the cult-like following and the prosecution deal, it felt like it.

 

Bonnie needs to cool it with her thirst for Sam.

[hatchetgirl]

Wow Annaliese is far too weak for this. I mean, she's being written as this amazing bitch in heels but after screwing get husband, turns over and silently cries? I can only think this is a twist that will reveal itself later. The non linear jumps are so very annoying.

I like Wes, he's darling. Love Connor, but the rest of the first years can go. The actress playing laurel is ridiculously awful. Same for Michaela and her over pushy, whiny act. The other guy is a non-entity. Of and stalker Frank? *shudder.

[bantering]

 

The actress playing laurel is ridiculously awful.

Yeah, there's a certain deadness to her that I find kind of weird.

 

I don't think Michaela is nuanced or anything, but at least she doesn't seem like she's in a coma.

 

I like the actor who plays Wes, but I'm not sure if I like the character of Wes (though to be fair, this dislike hinges solely on his attraction to Rebecca, who I don't think is worthy anybody's time).

 

 

Additionally, unless Aiden was staking his entire political career on a vocal opposition to marriage equality or something, a one-off adolescent relationship would have a hard time even making it into a tabloid because no one would care. In Arizona, one of the most reliably Republican states in the country, a gay sheriff ran for Congress a couple of election cycles back. None of the local newspapers reported on it because being gay isn't a story in an of itself anymore - journalists waited until it was discovered he (a hard-liner on immigration and border control) had been dating a Mexican national who overstayed his visa until they broke any mention of his sexuality.

 

I think she  doesn't want to be humiliated. Sort of like Hillary might have resigned herself to the fact that Bill probably has a wandering eye, but gets ticked like anybody else on the planet when one's humiliation becomes public. Because Michaela didn't give the engagement ring back I didn't think she was opposed to her fiance having had a fling. Nonetheless, she wanted to make sure that she knew everything else that might be going on with him so that it doesn't come back to bite her in the future, even if it's only among her family and friends.

Edited October 12, 2014 by bantering

[truthaboutluv]

I think she  doesn't want to be humiliated. Sort of like Hillary might have resigned herself to the fact that Bill probably has a wandering eye, but gets ticked like anybody else on the planet when one's humiliation becomes public. Because Michaela didn't give the engagement ring back I didn't think she was opposed to her fiance having had a fling. Nonetheless, she wanted to make sure that she knew everything else that might be going on with him so that it doesn't come back to bite her in the future, even if it's only among her family and friends.

 

 

This. Also I found Michaela's reaction fairly reasonable. It doesn't matter what she supposedly would have known or observed from college. Knowing that things happen is always different than experiencing it first hand. The first thing she noted is that they both talked about their exes when they started their relationship and he never mentioned Connor because he claims "it was just some one time young and horny thing." Maybe so but then as soon as he saw Connor he probably should have mentioned it because then he allowed Connor to drop the bombshell on her publicly.

 

The girl basically had the guy she's competing with who loves getting one over on her, get the chance to vindictively gloat about fucking her fiance and she was expected to be perfectly fine and sensible in everything she said because "it's 2014, everyone knows sexuality is fluid, who cares..." And as noted, Michaela did not hate Aidan for his necessarily being attracted to men if he was. She was angry he lied to her and she did not want to go through with some marriage if he secretly was still interested in men. I don't see how on any level that's unreasonable. 

 

Well, first of all, Michaela can GTFO with her nonsense. Honey, sexuality can be fluid. People experiment. She could have taken the mature route and had an honest conversation with Aiden about his sexuality rather than rambling on about her damn dress.

 

 

She tried to before she mentioned her dress. Yes she was still upset but she asked him about the fact that they were supposed to tell each other everything, that they talked about their exes and he never said anything and he got defensive with his whole "it wasn't a relationship, it was one stupid hookup." Then she asked him if he was gay and said that she didn't care and that they could be friends. He again got shouty and defensive claiming he's no down low person, etc. Some make an issue of Michaela not considering bisexaulity but Aidan didn't say he was bisexual either. His argument was that it was a 16 year old horny mistake that would never happen again. And that's when she issued her threat because her reasoning was probably that she was giving him an out, giving him a chance to be honest with her and he didn't take it. So if he embarrasses her later, after she gave him that chance, she will destroy him. A little cold and mercenary sure, but again, she gave him the option to walk away without either of them getting hurt. 

 

Michaela also generally strikes me as lacking credibility because affluence actually sort of precludes shelteredness in some respects. Half of the kids I know who went to boarding school had done a stint in rehab by high school graduation. I feel like she would be able to reign herself in from a full-on meltdown during the body removal or at least not lose the gigantic identifying engagement ring on her finger.

 

 

YMMV but I don't see a correlation between going to some affluent school where a bunch of rich kids party too hard and are self-indulgent so they spend some time in some pricey rehabs, to being an accessory to full on murder. Typically most of these rich kids never see a day in jail for all of their drug use. This is a full on murder of another person and covering it up. Not to mention, I thought the point of showing more of Michaela's back-story this episode was to show that she is very set on a certain path for her life. And I don't believe someone who sees herself as becoming a top attorney and then the wife of possibly the next black president, not freaking out that she's now an accessory to murder. 

 

Additionally, unless Aiden was staking his entire political career on a vocal opposition to marriage equality or something, a one-off adolescent relationship would have a hard time even making it into a tabloid because no one would care.

 

 

I don't think her threat was about the affair with Connor but rather if he was lying to her about not being attracted to men and only wanting her. In other words, if she found out later, after marrying him that he was still hooking up with guys, she'd destroy him. And as many strides have been made in the LGBT movement in the U.S. , politicians stepping out on their wives is still news and yes it would still matter if a politician with a wife, was caught with another man. 

Edited October 12, 2014 by truthaboutluv

[DollEyes]

Oh, Laurel. You are smart and beautiful. Stop concerning yourself with Frank and please love yourself.

 

            If the chemistry between her and that cute East Indian guy she met at the mixer was any indication, I think Laurel will get over Frank way sooner than later.

 

Bonnie needs to cool it with her thirst for Sam.

 

I think it may already be too late.

 

  Still digging the show so far. it hasn't answered every question yet, but the show is only three episodes old. If I wanted to watch a show that solves every crime in an hour or less, I'd watch nothing but L&O: Whatever, CSI: Whatever, NCIS: Whatever, The Mysteries of Laura or Scooby-Doo. Lila and Sam's murders will probably take at least half the season to solve if not the whole thing and as a veteran TV watcher, I like "comfort shows" as much as the next viewer if they're good, but I love shows that challenge me, make me think and have fun doing it and this show is one of them, for now anyway. I've also got no problem with the time jumps. If I could/can handle Twin Peaks, Scandal and Lost without my head exploding, then this show's a piece of cake.  Still hearting Viola Davis. She may not look like, dress like or walk like  a supermodel, but not every female character-or female-has to or should. Character-wise, Annalise's Client Of the Week, an ex-domestic terrorist living as a soccer mom for 20 years, seemed like a tough one, but leave it to her to find a way. However, the COtW, Paula Murray, was the most predictable part of the episode, which was why I didn't feel sorry for her. Paula's lying to her unsuspecting husband Kevin from the start was bad enough, but when she gushed over her cult leader terrorist ex like a teenage girl at a Five Seconds Of Summer concert, I knew that something would go wrong. Poor Kevin. He was married to a terrorist and a killer all along and not only didn't know it, he and his kids will have to suffer for the rest of their lives because of their selfishness. If/when the Feds catch Paula and/or her ex and she asks Annalise to defend her again, I hope that Annalise abandons Paula just like Paula abandoned Annalise, Kevin and the kids. Nate's lying to Annalise about what he found in his investigation of Sam may have been payback to Annalise for her humiliating/blackmailing him on the witness stand and almost destroying his career, but it'll backfire big-time,  leading to Sam's murder and possibly Lila's as well. 

 

  Re Annalise and Wes, I loved that Annalise was impressed enough by Wes' defense of Rebecca to take her case instead of Griffin's and give the trophy to Wes at Connor's expense-which IMO served Connor right on two counts: the first, for doubting Annalise and the second, for the way he outed Aidan, Michaela's fiance' to Michaela by bragging about he fling he had with Aidan in boarding school back in the day, but more on that later. It was clever of Wes to make a fake ID to see Rebecca until Rebecca blew his cover, to protect him, I suspect. If Wes had used another name instead of his own, Rebecca probably would have said it anyway, so in that case, Wes would have been busted either way. About Rebecca confessing to Lila's murder, while she might actually be guilty, I also think that someone threatened her, whether it was a member of Griffin's family, Lila's family or one of the faculty (possibly Sam?) any of whom could be rich, powerful and dangerous enough to make good on their threat.  Re Michaela/Aiden/Connor, while I agree that Aiden should have been honest with Michaela about his past, Michaela lost me when she called Aiden "gay." News flash, Michaela: bisexuality exists. Michaela's threat to ruin Aiden was the final nail in the coffin. Michaela's a shallow, spoiled, self-absorbed, biphobic and hypocritical snob. Michaela's threatening to destroy Aiden if he hurt her only to do the same thing to herself reeks of hypocrisy. Bitch, you are not only deeply involved in a murder plot, you lost your engagement ring and you thought Aiden's sexual past was a problem? Aidan's past sexual conquests may be questionable especially since Connor's one of them, but a murder cover-up is much worse. Where was Michaela's concern for her precious, custom-made Vera Wang wedding gown when she helped destroy evidence, including Sam's body? Aiden deserves much better, as far as I'm concerned. Re Connor, I don't know what's worse: his outing Aiden to Michaela or his constant bragging to Michaela about his fling with Aiden, both without any semblance of remorse. His losing the trophy to Wes was karmic justice, as far as I'm concerned.

 

 

 

Does Wes remind anyone else of C.Thomas Howell in Soul Man? It's all I can think about when he's onscreen.

 

  He does look like C.TH in that movie, but I don't care. Not every Black man has to look like Idris Elba or Boris Kodjoe to be sexy. it helps, but it's not required. Since I found C.TH cute in both colors in Soul Man, I still think Alfred Enoch is hot.

Edited October 14, 2014 by DollEyes

[truthaboutluv]

Michaela's threatening to destroy Aiden if he hurt her only to do the same thing to herself reeks of hypocrisy. Bitch, you are not only deeply involved in a murder plot, you lost your engagement ring and you thought Aiden's sexual past was a problem?

 

 

All of that happened before the murder. The murder and the cover-up is what is happening in real time. Everything else was months prior and at the start of the episode, when they showed Michaela and Aiden in bed, "2 Months Ago" was written on the screen. So when she was confronting Aiden she hadn't murdered or helped murder or assisted in the cover up yet. Also, Michaela did not call Aiden gay, she asked him if he was gay and then assured him that if he was it was fine but that obviously they couldn't get married. And he said he wasn't.

Edited October 12, 2014 by truthaboutluv

[caracas1914]

I think Michaela thought that Aiden had deliberately lied by covering up a male dalliance in the past, but you could take that one of  two ways.  One he's deep in denial he's gay, or two it was a one time youthful experimentation that he wouldn't necessarily want to offer up, especially if he does identify as straight.   Sure as a straight male  he could shrug it off as no biggie, but a lot of guys would probably opt for not mentioning it, period.

Edited October 12, 2014 by caracas1914

[ribboninthesky1]

I don't think Michaela is nuanced or anything, but at least she doesn't seem like she's in a coma.

 

I don't think any character on this show is nuanced, though some actors are doing a better job than others.

 

As for Michaela and Aiden - ultimately, it's on Aiden what he chose not to disclose.  According to him, it was a one time deal, so I can see why he may not have initially mentioned it.  But once he saw Connor and still didn't mention it, then all bets were off.  Michaela was angry, but he just showed up in her apartment because she wasn't returning his phone calls (never mind that HE was the one who dipped early because it was getting too hot in the kitchen), and she asked him about his sexual preferences, and he said he wasn't gay.  If he had anything to tell her, whether about being bisexual, asexual, pansexual, trisexual, multisexual, whatever...that was his chance to do it (well, really, the time would have been pre-engagement).  It's not Michaela's responsibility to force anything out of him.  And I don't mind her mentioning the expense of the wedding.  I don't agree with exorbitant weddings, but if I'm paying for it, goddamn right I want to be clear if the groom truly wants to marry me.  I mean, Connor basically said, "Hey, once upon a time, I thought I'd be the one wearing Aiden's ring," before Aiden explained anything to Michaela.  So yeah, I can understand why she might have some trouble believing that it was just a one-time thing for Aiden.

 

I don't know - Aiden immediately read bland and milquetoast to me, and I don't understand why Michaela is even with him.  Frankly, I thought someone like Asher, with the assholery dialed down to alpha male, would be more her speed.  It felt like he was introduced only to further the "antagonistic" relationship between Connor and Michaela, reemphasize Connor's ability to bang all the hot guys (his paraphrased words, not mine), and show Michaela "overreacting" to explain her mental state during and post Sam's death.  Oh, and the whole "ring going missing" thing.  Except that I'm on Michaela's side regarding all of the above.  I have no idea why she would want to marry the guy.    

 

I don't think Alfred Enoch looks like C. Thomas Howell from Soul Man.  He's an attractive young man (beautiful eyes), but he ain't remotely sexy as Wes.

[lunastartron]

This. Also I found Michaela's reaction fairly reasonable. It doesn't matter what she supposedly would have known or observed from college. Knowing that things happen is always different than experiencing it first hand. The first thing she noted is that they both talked about their exes when they started their relationship and he never mentioned Connor because he claims "it was just some one time young and horny thing." Maybe so but then as soon as he saw Connor he probably should have mentioned it because then he allowed Connor to drop the bombshell on her publicly.

 

The girl basically had the guy she's competing with who loves getting one over on her, get the chance to vindictively gloat about fucking her fiance and she was expected to be perfectly fine and sensible in everything she said because "it's 2014, everyone knows sexuality is fluid, who cares..." And as noted, Michaela did not hate Aidan for his necessarily being attracted to men if he was. She was angry he lied to her and she did not want to go through with some marriage if he secretly was still interested in men. I don't see how on any level that's unreasonable. 

 

 

She tried to before she mentioned her dress. Yes she was still upset but she asked him about the fact that they were supposed to tell each other everything, that they talked about their exes and he never said anything and he got defensive with his whole "it wasn't a relationship, it was one stupid hookup." Then she asked him if he was gay and said that she didn't care and that they could be friends. He again got shouty and defensive claiming he's no down low person, etc. Some make an issue of Michaela not considering bisexaulity but Aidan didn't say he was bisexual either. His argument was that it was a 16 year old horny mistake that would never happen again. And that's when she issued her threat because her reasoning was probably that she was giving him an out, giving him a chance to be honest with her and he didn't take it. So if he embarrasses her later, after she gave him that chance, she will destroy him. A little cold and mercenary sure, but again, she gave him the option to walk away without either of them getting hurt. 

 

 

YMMV but I don't see a correlation between going to some affluent school where a bunch of rich kids party too hard and are self-indulgent so they spend some time in some pricey rehabs, to being an accessory to full on murder. Typically most of these rich kids never see a day in jail for all of their drug use. This is a full on murder of another person and covering it up. Not to mention, I thought the point of showing more of Michaela's back-story this episode was to show that she is very set on a certain path for her life. And I don't believe someone who sees herself as becoming a top attorney and then the wife of possibly the next black president, not freaking out that she's now an accessory to murder. 

 

 

I don't think her threat was about the affair with Connor but rather if he was lying to her about not being attracted to men and only wanting her. In other words, if she found out later, after marrying him that he was still hooking up with guys, she'd destroy him. And as many strides have been made in the LGBT movement in the U.S. , politicians stepping out on their wives is still news and yes it would still matter if a politician with a wife, was caught with another man. 

I concur that Infidelity in any capacity on the part of a politician would likely still garner attention. these days. I don't necessarily agree with the implicit reasoning on Michaela's part that, because Aiden had a dalliance with a boy during adolescence, it somehow emphasizes the possibility of him being unfaithful in the future. The automatic leap from "past/situational experimentation" to "cheater" is what I'm not following, although I admittedly find the overall disclosure of every past ex somewhat odd in general. In any case, as the narrative stands, I can see how Connor might not qualify as an "ex" necessarily depending on the parameters of the relationship. Shonda loves infidelity/adultery as theme, however, and Scandal has had its share of closet case characters, so I won't be surprised if the plot takes that turn.

 

I don't consider murder and DUIs or drug possession to be analogous, but Michaela seems to have a rigid, storybook vision for her future that would seem to be undercut by experience a bit at this point ie I'd think she'd be more acquainted with the proposition that the image often doesn't match private reality. As for her political ambitions, she should get comfortable with murderin' because the staff of Pope & Associates seems to cover those up pretty regularly :)

 

I am interested to see what the specifics of Mr. Annalise's death turn out to be. I can't really see Michaela or Connor jeopardizing their own personal and professional interests by involving themselves on behalf of anyone else, let alone someone (Wes) they don't even like. Even if they believed themselves to be responsible in whole or part for the murder, I'd think they would be the first two to attempt to pin it on Wes/Laurel before body disposal even came up.

 

 

 

I call Connor a whore because it seems like his character is defined by repeatedly hopping into bed with people.  He's been seen seducing a guy for info he wanted, he had sex with Michaela's fiancee when they were teens, and he's asking someone (Aiden?) to take their clothes off in the next episode.  Is this all that Connor does?

 

I don't see how Connor is unique among the primary cast of characters in this respect. Annalise has been explicitly shown engaging in extramarital activity and later leveraging that relationship to her benefit in a variety of capacities. Her husband and assistant are evidently sleeping with each other, and it's strongly implied he had no qualms about transgressing the teacher-student boundary. Frank evidently likes to exploit the naivete of the idealistic 1L girls. At this point, Wes and Michaela are two of the only main characters who aren't defined in large part by whom they're having sex with.

[bantering]

 

I concur that Infidelity in any capacity on the part of a politician would likely still garner attention. these days. I don't necessarily agree with the implicit reasoning on Michaela's part that, because Aiden had a dalliance with a boy during adolescence, it somehow emphasizes the possibility of him being unfaithful in the future. The automatic leap from "past/situational experimentation" to "cheater" is what I'm not following, although I admittedly find the overall disclosure of every past ex somewhat odd in general. In any case, as the narrative stands, I can see how Connor might not qualify as an "ex" necessarily depending on the parameters of the relationship. Shonda loves infidelity/adultery as theme, however, and Scandal has had its share of closet case characters, so I won't be surprised if the plot takes that turn.

 

 

If he's uncertain as to what his preference is (which she too was uncertain about because the news of him having been with a guy was suddenly sprung on her without any hint previously) then the probability of cheating could be high in the future (like, uh, John Travolta when he's stepping out on Kelly Preston. If Travolta were married to a man, I wonder if he'd cheat since he'd have been with the gender/sex he prefers. Ditto for any of those gay Congressman married to women who go cruising for men on Craigslist. There have been enough scandals in the media -- man steps out on woman with another man and then the woman goes back into the past to recall an incident that did seem to raise a red flag -- that I would find it more weird if Michaela didn't issue a threat to him about humiliating her. )

 

I think the disclosure of every ex must be in relation to their political careers (they seem like they're aspiring to be the African American version of Bill and Hillary although it did seem as though Aiden didn't have Bill Clinton's ambition, or even Hillary's for that matter). The fact that Aiden didn't mention it if they had a pact about the whole truth and nothing but the truth would also raise a bit of a red flag, I think.

Edited October 12, 2014 by bantering

[helenamonster]

While Michael definitely annoyed me this week, I did think learning more about her helped explain why, out of the four of them, she's the one that's been show to be having the hardest time with the murder cover-up. I mean, yeah, I'd definitely be hyperventilating in that situation, but the first couple episodes her reaction seemed so much more severe. But now, I think it's because all she can see as her "friends" roll up a body in a carpet is her entire future being flushed down the toilet. I think she feels that she has more at stake than the others seem to.

 

It'll be interesting to see where these other characters go and how that translates to their reactions. Connor's having his own version of a breakdown, between changing the words to "Jingle Bells" and the whole "Smile or go to jail!" thing. Wes is taking the (manipulative) lead, presumably to protect Rebecca for reasons unfathomable. And Laurel is, like, weirdly calm. I know a lot of people are blaming the actress but, like, if she was supposed to be more frantic I'm sure a director or the script would have told her so.

[bantering]

 

Connor's having his own version of a breakdown, between changing the words to "Jingle Bells" and the whole "Smile or go to jail!" thing.

Yeah, I thought   his reaction was a bit similar to Michaela even though he seems more willing to do what Wes tells him to do.

 

I do think Michaela is having the most real reaction regardless of what her actual motives are. Who the heck, no matter what class station you come from, wants to be part of an attempted murder cover-up? As the story unfolds, I assume we'll learn more that might explain why they feel they have no choice but to participate in all of this, including perhaps Wes. Well, at least it's just an attempted murder cover-up and not a full-on murder they committed themselves. If that were the case, I'd think Wes was a full-on nutcase.

 

As for Annalise, I can understand her reaction to her husband. Just because you defend murderers doesn't mean you actually want to be married to one. I doubt any of OJ Simpson's lawyers wanted to actually share a bed with a murderer.

Edited October 12, 2014 by bantering

[Chas411]

I want to like this show I do but man, I'm finding it so hard.

 

Are they going for a Frank/Laurel tru wuv type relationship? Because if they are I'm not interested and I'm not buying it. Frank is just a non entity to me. He could never appear again and I wouldn't notice.

 

Rebecca needs to perk up or fuck off. Her open hostility makes me questions Wes's intelligence and doesn't make me want to watch them all support her.

[ShadowSixx]

I'm wondering why Michaela is the only one who is actually reacting to what they're doing by burying/burning Sam? Everyone else just seem so ready to do it without a second thought.

 

Now they had to flip a coin because they were at a tie on whether or not to move Sam or leave him where he was. So was it Wes/Connor who wanted to move him and Michaela/Laurel not wanting to or Wes/Laurel wanting to move him and Connor/Michaela not wanting to move him? Cause whoever is siding with Michaela sure as hell isn't acting emotional about it like she is. With the way the rest are acting it's more like a 3 to 1 vote cause when they went to the bonfire to secure their alibi Michaela is the only one not fully enjoying herself. It would be nice to see either Connor or Laurel having second thoughts.

 

If it's Laurel that's siding with Michaela, I do agree with a poster that she's absolutely horrible at conveying the emotion. A zombie has more emotions than her at this point. I guess that's one of my reasons that Michaela is one of the three characters I'm liking so far cause she's the only one actually showing some type of reaction to what they're doing.

[helenamonster]

If I remember correctly from the first episode, Laurel and Connor wanted to move the body, Michaela was adamantly against it, and Wes suggested the coin flip because it was "two against two" without actually stating that he'd rather leave the body at Annalise's house. Which definitely plays more into his manipulation, because he was implying that he wanted to leave the body there but then still got them to believe that the quarter landed on heads.

[theatremouse]

I'm wondering why Michaela is the only one who is actually reacting to what they're doing by burying/burning Sam? Everyone else just seem so ready to do it without a second thought.

There might be more to it, but it's so far seemed to me like they're all freaking out, but Connor/Laurel are in self-preservation freak-out mode. Meanwhile, Michaela has already hit fall-apart-and-freeze freak-out mode, which I'm guessing Laurel and/or Connor may reach later once the adrenaline dies down/they are no longer literally dealing with a body. I don't see Connor or Laurel as nonchalant. They're reacting, just differently than M is. I see them as horrified at what's happened, but that energy is pushing them to continue to act, whereas the same horror is making Michaela incapable of functioning.

 

Wes I'm assuming is a whole separate story, since as I stated a few eps back, I don't think he is who he said he is, nor has the personality he's been presented as having. So I don't think any of his reactions can be assumed as genuine. Yet.

[helenamonster]

It's definitely a fight-or-flight thing going on. Laurel's fight (her idea to use the bonfire as an alibi), Michaela's flight (in total meltdown mode), Connor's somewhere in the middle (he's getting shit done but still cracking up a bit), and Wes's motives are still too murky to make any sort of judgement on. I don't know if they did it on purpose or not, but I like how they have a little spectrum of how people react in a crisis.

[ShadowSixx]

There might be more to it, but it's so far seemed to me like they're all freaking out, but Connor/Laurel are in self-preservation freak-out mode. Meanwhile, Michaela has already hit fall-apart-and-freeze freak-out mode, which I'm guessing Laurel and/or Connor may reach later once the adrenaline dies down/they are no longer literally dealing with a body. I don't see Connor or Laurel as nonchalant. They're reacting, just differently than M is. I see them as horrified at what's happened, but that energy is pushing them to continue to act, whereas the same horror is making Michaela incapable of functioning.

 

Wes I'm assuming is a whole separate story, since as I stated a few eps back, I don't think he is who he said he is, nor has the personality he's been presented as having. So I don't think any of his reactions can be assumed as genuine. Yet.

 

Is Laurel horrified? I can't tell cause the girl can't slap an emotion on her face. So if following this correctly, Wes is the problem solver/protector of the four who may have other motives, Michaela is the reluctant one, Connor is going to go along with whatever is being planned as long as he isn't caught and Laurel is just there, really not serving much of a purpose. I guess I would have to group her with Connor going along with it but its hard to tell cause the character is so dead.

[wanderingstar]

I can't tell cause the girl can't slap an emotion on her face.

 

 

I thought it was just me. I have not seen her facial expression change once in the first three episodes. 

[ToukieSmith]

Watching Anni caress the detective's thigh was just awkward. I don't think being a seductress is Viola Davis' thing.

 

It comes off creepy/stalkerish to me.  I swear Viola is playing Annalise as on the verge of a nervous breakdown.

 

I didn't think she came across as biphobic. Yes she didn't seem to consider that as an option and jumped to his being gay but he himself didn't state that he was bisexual. He seemed to chalk up what happened with Connor to purely being young and horny. And yes Michaela was a little cold with her comments about her wedding dress and ruining his life but I don't feel bad for him because she gave him an out. She clearly stated that she didn't have a problem with him being gay and even said that they could be friends if he was. He got all defensive and indignant and swore he only wants her.

 

I took her speech to him to be more of an "if you make me waste years of my life, invest time and energy in this relationship/marriage all the while knowing you're interested in men after I gave you an out, I will fucking destroy you." And I can't hate her for that. That's the thing about closeted individuals. Yes coming out is difficult but once you make the decision to bring someone else inadvertently into your lie then it's no longer just about you and that's unfair to the other person. 

 

I took Michaela's comments the same way.  She would have had the same speech if Aiden had an affair with Lauren.  I think the point was that Aiden did not tell Michaela about his relationship with Connor which allowed Connor to hold that information over Michaela.  He owes it to her to be real clear about his intentions.  Its telling that he did not mention his relationship with Connor and Michaela needs to prolong the engagement at the very least.

 

Jason Geddrick is hot...  I think he had more chemistry with Viola than Tom Verica.  If Jason were cast as the husband, then there would be no need for the boyfriend....or Viola could be sleeping with both hot men.

 

Wardrobe dresses Annalise terribly.  I was going to say that Viola is the only lead that is dressed horribly, but Tea Leoni looks terrible as well.  Smart, powerful woman can look professional and on point.  Sex appeal comes through when people are dressed appropriately.  Kerry Washington is not dressed inappropriately (low cut, too tight, see through), but she is sexy because the clothes/hair are right for her job, height, and weight.

Edited October 13, 2014 by ToukieSmith

[blixie]

 

but it'll backfire big-time,  leading to Sam's murder and possibly Lila's as well.

 

Lila is already dead, Detective Boyfriend is lying about Sam's alibi in Lila Drug Dealer's murder. 

 

I'm still enjoying the show a lot, it's patently ridiculous on almost every level, but it is damn entertaining to me. I don't see Connor as not being emotionally upset during the cover up. He's tweaking hardcore and maniacally on edge I mean he was practically Jack Nicholson in The Shining when he said "Smile or go to jail!". Same when he was sing songing to Jingle Bells in the car.

 

I'm not getting why Paris Gellar is so heart eyes over Sam. Like gurl, get some self respect, also is that the only reason she's working with Annalise? To get some side action from her husband, because she doesn't actually seem to respect/admire or enjoy her work with her boss. Frank at least now we know he's got some class ish there, juiced by getting to do law related work without being a lawyer, oh and getting to skeeze on law students, is satisfied to smug-a-rific about where he's at. 

 

I'm also not at all bothered by Wes helping Rebecca, obviously he likes her dangergirl-damsel-ness, but I think he's mostly motivated by the desire to impress Annalise, and it is easy to see how Rebecca is or could be mid-railroad. I see it as a two birds one stone thing: impress my boss, get laid. 

 

After getting all over Paris for her Sam googly eyes, I have to admit I'm gonna keep watching because Tom Verica is one DAMN attractive man. HUZZAH, how does he look better than when he was on American Dreams!

[bantering]

 

After getting all over Paris for her Sam googly eyes, I have to admit I'm gonna keep watching because Tom Verica is one DAMN attractive man. HUZZAH, how does he look better than when he was on American Dreams!

Is that where he's from??? I kept thinking he was the dad from Dawson's Creek. Whoops.

[caracas1914]

Unfortunately I get very little onscreen chemistry between Viola Davis and Tom Verica.

Edited October 13, 2014 by caracas1914

[KHenry14]

This show is fascinating to me. One the face of it, it's just an intense Lawyer show, with the law school go getters as the twist. A charismatic, flawed main character, and a bunch of ambitious students who think they know more than they do.

Then they throw in a murder plot involving 4 of the students? It is very Lost-esque, and I'm not sure it works...yet.

The good news is there a lot of good actors on this show, and so far the writing has been good too. For example, I liked the creepy woman/terrorist subplot. And you can make a good show with interesting subplots combined with an over arching storyline. Hell, that's been done going all the way back to Hill Street Blues. But doing it well is another thing.

So far, they've hooked me enough to keep watching.

[caracas1914]

I actually have no problem with Wes being rather bland and colorless as compared to Micaela, Connor , etc as far as the competing law students.  I guess his role is to be more reactive to the crazy around him, but my problem is  that I find Albert Enoch a rather colorless actor.   I think of Meredith Gray of GA and she has a gravitas that makes her as the central figure logical despite whatever SL's are going on, whereas with Wes it's seems they are going to make the twist SL's the reason he's essential, as opposed to something special the actor brings to the role of Wes.

[blackwing]

I'm still really liking this show.  I think the reason why I like it is because it's unlike almost all of the other shows on TV right now.  (I don't watch the other Shonda shows so I don't know if it's ripping them off or not.)   The fast forwards can get a little hard to follow, but the thing I like the most about this show is that each week it is revealing just a little bit more about the future mystery.  I like that the last episode I was saying something like "wait a second, how did they know..." and then this week's episode, it got addressed.

 

I'm finding the students and Viola's associates to be somewhat cartoonish, however.  Let's see, of the five students, we have 1) earnest hard-working young man who sympathises with those who are downtrodden like him, 2) ambitious creep who will stop at nothing to get ahead, 3) princess who appears to have it all but actually seems extremely insecure, 4) blank slate of a girl who is going to get taken advantage of, and 5) classic dork who thinks he's a successful gunner but comes across as a tool.  Of the associates, there's disapproving ice queen who wants everyone to be as lonely and miserable as she is, and guy with a checkered past who is about to make some bad choices.

 

I'm not sure if I truly like any of the students.  I think I empathise with Michaela the most though.  The one I can't stand is Wes.  He seems to be getting way more focus than the other students, it's almost like we're supposed to think he's the heart of the show.  I don't really cared for the doe eyed silent looks and the white knight act.

[St. Claire]

What I want to know is why is Wes keeping the dead girl's phone?

 

I think I recall him trying to unlock the phone (most likely to check her messages and such to get more info) but not being able to do so. He didn't want to get rid of it until he could figure out what was up.

[topanga]

 

Is Michaela supposed to hail from an affluent background like Connor and Aiden? Because I don't really find her character, as written, to be particularly consistent with that history. Firstly, she's presumably equipped with a liberal arts degree from a private university yet has never encountered the concept of heteroflexibility? I'm around the same age as the core four and the number of people I know from boarding school and/or college who didn't hook up once or twice with someone of the same sex is probably less than the number who did. I seriously thought the Kinsey model and interpretation that you can occupy different points on it at different stages of life was relatively prevalent in Northeastern academia.

But would she be so concerned about the cost of her dress if she came from serious money? I can imagine her being concerned about telling lots of people about a wedding that might not happen, but not necessarily the cost--if her family was made of money.

 

In terms of heteroflexibility: within the black community, there remains a significant amount of homophobia? Homo-denial? Research shows that most white heterosexual men have had some type of homosexual experience in their youth. But the number is drastically lower among black heterosexual men. Does this mean that black men have fewer homosexual experiences in their youth? Or are black men less likely to admit to these homosexual experiences because to many black men, having a homosexual experience means they are definitely gay?

[blackwing]

I think I recall him trying to unlock the phone (most likely to check her messages and such to get more info) but not being able to do so. He didn't want to get rid of it until he could figure out what was up.

He found the phone in his neighbour's apartment, I think.  He didn't know it was Lila's until somebody called her and asked him why he was answering her phone.  He asked Connor to ask his IT friend Oliver about cracking a password on a phone.  He asked Rebecca what was on the phone but she wouldn't tell him.  My guess is it's some pictures in flagrante delicto of Lila and Annalise's husband. Edited October 13, 2014 by blackwing

[helenamonster]

Actually, he found the phone in the cabinet under the sink of his apartment; Rebecca stashed it there when she came in to take a shower. The rest is correct, though. He assumed it was Rebecca's phone until someone called it asking for Lila. He thinks there's something on the phone that could prove Rebecca's innocence, which is why she kept it instead of tossing it into a lake, but I'm more inclined to believe she stashed it because it has something incriminating (and stashing it in Wes's apartment was pretty smart, because it's very unlikely the cops would have thought to look there for anything).

[truthaboutluv]

He found the phone in his neighbour's apartment, I think.

 

 

He found the phone in his apartment. He assumed Rebecca put it there when she conveniently needed to use his shower. 

[ribboninthesky1]

Regarding the coin toss, it was actually Connor and Michaela who didn't want to bury the body, and Wes and Laurel who did.  Blah blah..."It's the quiet ones you have to watch out for"...blah.  Laurel is as gung-ho to bury evidence as Wes is.  Connor was initially freaking out, but then seemed content to go along with the plan after a fucking coin toss. 

 

Michaela is the only one who seems reasonable and sane enough to not give a shit about a coin toss, and still protest.  But she was more or less bullied into compliance.  I don't know where Asher is in all this (makes me wonder if that character was cast or written in later), but assuming he's alive or even still "interning," I'm sure Michaela would rather have been wherever he was.  Can't say I blame her.

Edited October 14, 2014 by ribboninthesky1

[bantering]

The thing that's annoying to me about Laurel is that she seems comatose even in the flashback scenes.

 

While dragging the body, Connor, Michaela, and Wes seem the opposite of how they've presented themselves in the flashback scenes. But Laurel looks and acts the same regardless of whether she's pondering if Frank has the hots for her or if she's dragging a dead body around in order to burn it.

[Advance35]

Regarding the coin toss, it was actually Connor and Michaela who didn't want to bury the body, and Wes and Laurel who did.  Blah blah..."It's the quiet ones you have to watch out for"...blah.  Laurel is as gung-ho to bury evidence as Wes is.  Connor was initially freaking out, but then seemed content to go along with the plan after a fucking coin toss.

 

I actually really like this aspect  of the show.   Wes comes off as clueless and naive and in over his head, while the supposed head-hunters or more outwardly mercenary types like Connor and Michaela can run circles around him.   Hence Connor calling him "Wait-List" and Michaela's rather dismissive attitude towards him and Laurel.   But in a situation where the stakes couldn't be higher and lives literally hang in the balance we see Michaela fall apart at a terrible turn of events she was apart of, Connor is hanging on my a hair while the quiet and doe-eyed ones (Wes and Laurel) show that their blood runs even colder than the former two.

 

Even in the midst of something horrific happening Wes and Lauren are still capable of calmly and coldy making sure they look out for themselves.   Wes making sure the coin-toss went the way he wanted and Lauren calculating the best way to save herself (and the others by extension, by ensuring that they are seen at the bonfire).   

 

It's hardly reinventing the wheel but I actually like this, we've seen Lauren standing up for Wes, telling Connor not to call him wait-list and standing up and offering an answer when Wes was being embarrassed by Annalise.   All that makes for the appearance of a compassionate young woman but we may find out she's quite the opposite.   I haven't seen enough of the actress to make a judgement on her, I think she's "serviceable" so far.

[DollEyes]

 

Lila is already dead, Detective Boyfriend is lying about Sam's alibi in Lila Drug Dealer's murder.

 

I know, what I meant was that Nate's lying could make Annalise start trusting Sam again, which could be a big mistake, since Sam could be a killer and Annalise might not even know it unless she finds out the hard way, which, by then it would already be too late.

 

  About Michaela, while IA that she should be pissed about Aidan keeping his fling with Connor a secret from her, I doubt that she would have been as upset if it was Laurel because she and Laurel haven't been snarking at each other from the start and Laurel doesn't seem like the type of person who would out someone just for fun, unlike Connor. Michaela was right to expect that her fiancé loves her and not do anything to jeopardize their future, but getting involved in a murder plot two months later after putting him on blast for keeping secrets is hypocritical.

 

 

I don't think Alfred Enoch looks like C.Thomas Howell from Soul Man. He's an attractive young man (beautiful eyes), but he ain't remotely sexy as Wes.

 

  That's the beauty of varying mileages.

Edited October 14, 2014 by DollEyes

[ribboninthesky1]

Michaela was right to expect that her fiancé loves her and not do anything to jeopardize their future, but getting involved in a murder plot two months later after putting him on blast for keeping secrets is hypocritical.

 

I'm guessing Michaela, in the present timeline, hasn't had a chance to call Aiden and tell him she's involved with burying a dead man's body, and may/may not have witnessed his death. She may indeed be a hypocrite, but it's a bit early to call.

 

Even in the midst of something horrific happening Wes and Lauren are still capable of calmly and coldy making sure they look out for themselves.   Wes making sure the coin-toss went the way he wanted and Lauren calculating the best way to save herself (and the others by extension, by ensuring that they are seen at the bonfire).

 

We have yet to know if Wes is looking out for himself, or for Rebecca.  It seems to be the latter.  Wes and Laurel have shown themselves to be quietly competent and clever in the flashbacks, so I don't think they're all that different, in that regard, presently.  It's possible that Sam somehow threatened them, but otherwise, it's rather disturbing how calm they are about burying Annalise's husband.  If Michaela was falling apart over something insignificant, I'd be more willing to give her a hard time.  As it stands, I'm okay with her reeling from abetting a (potential) murder. I don't find Michaela anywhere near as mercenary as Connor - she's not the one leveraging a sexual relationship to one-up the other students.  She's been quite clever in getting information in other ways.

 

I'm trying to think if Connor has provided any insight into a case on his own, by his own sleuthing, without the aid of IT guy? I can't think of anything.  Everyone else, save Asher the glorified extra, has been shown coming to conclusions using their deductive reasoning, I think.  I'm beginning to understand the concerns about the character being defined by his sexuality.

 

I'm not convinced the bonfire will be the alibi they believe it to be, and that's not counting the ring loss. Assuming people were celebrating over a several hour period, it doesn't cover them the entire time.  We'll see. 

Edited October 14, 2014 by ribboninthesky1

[LeGrandElephant]

The bonfire is definitely not an airtight alibi, but it's better than nothing. Especially if they can fiddle with the photos metadata to make it seem like they were taken throughout the night. Not sure how easy it is to do that without leaving a trace - I know how to change the date taken on a JPEG evrn right on my phone using an app, but I don't know if a tech person could check that I had changed it.

[RealityGal]

Lawyers correct me if I'm wrong, but practicing law without a license/impersonating a lawyer, as Wes did, is against the law.  He wouldn't just face possible criminal charges and jail time.  I think the law school would have booted him out in a New York minute. 

The unauthorized practice of law is not allowed, and is a crime (at least in California, but I imagine in all 50 states).  And its a big deal, especially when a lawyer in one state will try to advise or hold themselves out as a lawyer in another.  For a student it would be a big deal because if you got caught doing that, it would certainly show up on your moral character application for the bar, so I don't think you would be admitted to the bar with something like that on your record

 

I agree.  The only one I can root for now is Wes because he seems like a sweet kid, but if he continues to be so naive and impulsive he'll lose points with me.  Everyone else is either a smug jerk or a piece of cardboard.

 

Hate the time jumps but I'm more interested in the co-ed murder mystery than the case of the week.  I think we'll only have the other students fleshed out in the flashbacks.

Not to the other students who are probably relieved to be overlooked. ;)

 

So where is Checkov's Ring going to turn up?

 

True story here.  My son the law student said the first week of school he was outside between classes and a woman came up to him and asked for legal advice.  He refused and she went around asking other students for help.  He's convinced she was a school employee testing the L1s.  Not that they know anything anyway.

 

Hmm.  Maybe that's why he lied to her.  He can now do a (legal) investigation without Annalise knowing about it or blocking any evidence.

 

Law school students love to talk....you just don't even want to know....they love it, love it, love it, love it.

 

Anyone who wants legal advice from a 1L is an idiot and deserves whatever half ass legal advice they get.

[Mia Nina]

The only thing this show has going for it is Keating, and her constant use of her 1L "employees" is ridiculous to be honest. The constant sex montages/scenes are also quite unnecessary and are clearly being used to give this show some kind of identity it hasn't earned aside from Viola's fantastic presence and talent. The writing is weak and no one on this show comes off as particularly bright. What a colossal disappointment so far.

[wanderingstar]

I re-watched this episode (don't judge me), and my goodness Jason Gedrick was even hotter on second watch. I might have committed a crime or two for him!

[ShadowSixx]

The bonfire is definitely not an airtight alibi because if the coroner is able to determine the time of death, all they have to do is pull up Connor, Wes, and Laurel's phones and see what time they took those photos during the bonfire. Unless Connor gets the IT guy to change the time to match up whatever story they're going to tell. Also the cop that seen all four of them at Anni's house before they dragged the body out of the house so their alibi is very shaky at best.

Edited October 16, 2014 by ShadowSixx