S01.E03: Smile, Or Go To Jail

[taragel]

I'm not feeling Viola either. I wish she wasn't so...dour? And the only times she's not is when she's turning on the too-vulnerable-to-believe emoting with Nate or with Wes or Sam to manipulate them.

And the structure is just a mess. They could so do without all those unnecessary flashbacks.

I keep waiting for them to give Paris Gellar something to do besides snap at the kids and look moonily at Sam. Bah.

It's nowhere near as much fun as Scandal unfortunately.

[truthaboutluv]

Different strokes really because in my opinion, Scandal in its early days moved just as fast, particularly with the crime of the week Olivia had to cover up. Of course I checked out of Scandal mid-S2 and was never really a fan most importantly because I loathed Fitz and loathed the Fitz/Olivia relationship. Also I really have no problems following what's happening on HTGAWM. I do think that it's a show that if you're not paying attention you might miss something but I honestly find everything pretty straight forward.

 

Also last night's episode had the least amount of flash forwards to the murder of Sam. We only saw Michaela's breakdown and then losing her ring, Laurel coming up with the idea to use the bonfire as an alibi and them faking a good time and making sure to take pictures at the bonfire. The flash forward also addressed what many pointed out in the Pilot episode that a small fire cannot burn a body and instead what they were trying to do was remove any of their DNA off Sam's body. 

Edited October 10, 2014 by truthaboutluv

[jjj]

It is frustrating that the writers think the bonfire flashbacks will keep us intrigued and coming back to find out what is happening.  But actually, *writers*, the flashbacks are what will make me stop watching the show, because they irritate the heck out of me every time. 

[ribboninthesky1]

I don't have much problem following the show, but Scandal didn't lean on the in media res narrative device out of the gate, either.  Yes, there were flashbacks, but if I recall correctly, it was several episodes into the (short) first season before we had a flashback episode. Characters talked about the past, which is a lot more seamless than the juxtaposition of the past and present this show is providing. I realized that I watch the day after not just so I can keep track of what's going on, but because it's too tedious to watch live.  This show may benefit from a binge-watch rather than week-to-week.  I'm seriously considering doing that, since I don't really care enough about the characters at this point.   I'm kind of interested in what happens with Sam's death.  And I hung in there, hoping for more shirtless Nate, which I've given up on.  

 

The writing bothers me less than it should because I think a good part of TV is kind of absurd.  It has to be, I think, to keep people entertained.  And even with good writing, you still need a solid cast to bring it to life.  So, I see if the cast manages to make the material compelling. I'm beating a dead horse, but I'm not seeing it here.

[Calamity Jane]

So glad to see that others are as frustrated with the forward-back flashing as I am.  It's entertainment, it isn't deep philosophy, and I don't think viewers should be asked to work that hard just to understand what the heck is happening.  I took it in the first episode as a way to snazz things up and intrigue the viewers, but it's just annoying as crap now.  I'm probably done.  

[topanga]

 

I don't have much problem following the show, but Scandal didn't lean on the in media res narrative device out of the gate, either.  Yes, there were flashbacks, but if I recall correctly, it was several episodes into the (short) first season before we had a flashback episode. Characters talked about the past, which is a lot more seamless than the juxtaposition of the past and present this show is providing.

I agree. It bugs me that this entire season (except for the flashbacks) is a flashback, if that makes any sense. And I hate that kind of storytelling. It's basically saying that the actions, storylines, and character arcs that we watch week after week are only important in terms of how they lead up to that damn bonfire with the spinning cheerleader.

 

I'll try to keep watching because of Viola Davis. But as others have mentioned, Annalise hasn't been a character I've admired, felt sympathy toward, or even believed half the time. I haven't been able to root for her, or anyone else on the cast for that matter.

[Coxfires]

Word to pretty much your whole post, truthaboutluv.

 

I tried to but I can't manage to like Wes. HIs goddy two shoes speech made me roll my eyes, and I agree with you, I don't get his infatuation with Rebecca, not with the mere 1 minute interaction he had in total with her since he moved in next to her. I wanted to slap him for his actions this whole episode.

 

I do think the actor playing Connor plays the character with that perpetual smirk that makes him seem flirty at times when he really isn't but other than that, I don't see it.

 

 

I think the actor has a naturally crooked mouth (the right side streches down), and therefore looks like he is smirking permanently while I guess he can't help it in fact.

 

I still wonder where the hell Asher is by the time of Sam's murder, and why Laurel said they were all to blame last episode. There has to be a damn good reason McKayla, Connor and Laurel help Wes to protect Rebecca, because I don't see them risking their career, future, freedom...just f'cause Wes bangs her. 

 

This week's case was dull but at least it wasn't another win for Annelise, so that's a nice change.

Edited October 10, 2014 by Coxfires

[2KllMckngBrd]

I like Viola's look here better, but maybe with her hair like that they think people will confuse her with the lead on Scandal?

 

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0205626/

 

And back on topic, I knew Michaela was going to lose that ring when they kept showing it.

I would prefer pretty much any of the hair "styles" shown on that linked page. Viola is super sexy and professional "looking" in her natural hair. Especially the red twist style. And in this day and age there would be nothing unprofessional for her to wear her natural hair.

 

The shift dresses they are fond of putting her in would be great if only a touch longer, and just let out a 1/2, to an inch. That would even further emphasize her curves. And pants, w/the right cut and shimmy, w/a tailored shirt could be super sexy too. Then the really high heels would be less necessary.

 

 

And the super close ups of the ring were a dead giveaway for it being left/lost at the crime scene, or where they were trying to dispose of the husband.

 

Forgot earlier to add, Prissy Pratt's bi or gay fiancé was distracting to me, because of how much he looks like Michael B. Jordan. He was Reggie on All My Children. And played the lead in the movie Fruitvale Station. I tweeted that he looked just like him but bearded, as a "beard" should be. My son even asked me why Reggie was on How To, and I had to explain wasn't him.

 

And word to all the posters who have mentioned the lack of purpose of Paris Geller's character. The fact that most of us still cant remember the characters name should say something. And Liz Weil is a very talented actress, so not sure why she is being relegated to just "occasional barking wallpaper".

[meatball77]

Does anyone believe for one second that they would grant bail to a woman who is being arrested for skipping bail?

[Former Nun]

I think the actor has a naturally crooked mouth (the right side streches down), and therefore looks like he is smirking permanently while I guess he can't help it in fact.

 

Can't find anything handsome, charming, sexy, or appealing about this character (maybe the actor).  Smarmy is the only word that comes to mind.

[ribboninthesky1]

Were we suppose to believe that the Ortiz and Gedrick characters planned this whole thing from the beginning to get him out of prison and allow them to run off together?

 

I didn't think this, as it seemed to me that the look between them when Gedrick was on the stand perhaps reignited that passion she was fulfilling with public handjobs to strangers.  It made her realize she had the chance to be with him again.  But then I also didn't believe that Nate lied to Annalise about Sam to protect her.  So my perception might be off with these things.

 

Does anyone believe for one second that they would grant bail to a woman who is being arrested for skipping bail?

 

That was farfetched to me as well.  If I really squint, maybe I could see the judge granting bail because she has a husband and children and might not be considered a flight risk.  But yeah...okay.  It doesn't make sense.

[topanga]

 

I still wonder where the hell Asher is by the time of Sam's murder, and why Laurel said they were all to blame last episode.

This is the one mystery that still has me intrigued. I couldn't care less about Sam being dead or finding out who killed the co-ed or learning the hidden truths about Annalise, her lover, and her marriage.

[GaiusB]

Most amusing part of this show is how female veiwers can not understand Wes and Rebecca thing. As guy i can tell it is most realistic part of the show.

 

1. She is hot, mysterious, possibly wild in her sexual life - that alone is strong motive

2. She is in trouble! - a perfect opportunity for Wes to play a White Knight and save his damsel in distress

3. She is poor and innocent - basically what he said to Annalise. He is a justice warrior, idealist, one of those 1% of lawyers who are interested in justice more then money. Sure her innocence is highly debatable, but that is something Wes is more then willing to overlook because of  points 1. and 2.

[wanderingstar]

But then I also didn't believe that Nate lied to Annalise about Sam to protect her.

 

 

I initially thought this, too. But then how is leaving her in a home with a possible murderer protecting her?

[ribboninthesky1]

Most amusing part of this show is how female veiwers can not understand Wes and Rebecca thing. As guy i can tell it is most realistic part of the show.

 

1. She is hot, mysterious, possibly wild in her sexual life - that alone is strong motive

2. She is in trouble! - a perfect opportunity for Wes to play a White Knight and save his damsel in distress

3. She is poor and innocent - basically what he said to Annalise. He is a justice warrior, idealist, one of those 1% of lawyers who are interested in justice more then money. Sure her innocence is highly debatable, but that is something Wes is more then willing to overlook because of  points 1. and 2.

 

I wouldn't have any trouble believing any of the above if she wasn't so openly hostile to the guy. Rebecca's behavior towards Wes 97% of the time prior to her arrest, plus the fact that she made it really clear she didn't want his help by outing him as a law student and causing him to be detained at the precinct, would be enough to put him off. But hey, maybe Wes is the sadomasochistic type. And also gives not a lick about her consent. True love, y'all!

 

I initially thought this, too. But then how is leaving her in a home with a possible murderer protecting her?

 

Hey, I hear you.  I initially didn't think he was trying to protect her, but everyone I've talked to thought he was.  I thought he was saving the info to use as leverage, either against Annalise, or end his probation (i.e. "Hey Chief, I found some evidence, as a private citizen, that may break the case").  I'm pretty sure whatever feelings he had for Annalise died on the stand. Which is a shame, as Shirtless Nate is a joy to behold.  

Edited October 11, 2014 by ribboninthesky1

[Neurochick]

I really love this show.  For me it's interesting and much better than most of the crap on the regular networks.  

 

I think the problem with Viola's style on the show is, to me she looks frumpy; in real life, with her natural hair and nice clothes, she's gorgeous, but on this show she seems frumpy an dowdy to me.

 

I was confused about Michaela telling her fiancé that he could never have homosexual relations again because it would ruin his career in politics? Dude and Dudette, I'm pretty sure that ship has just sailed.

 

I don't agree.  In my experience, a man can have sex with a watermelon if he's horny enough.  My point is that a man, and some women too, can have sex with whomever and it'll mean absolutely zilch.  I went to an all woman's college over 30 years ago and I remember a whole group of girls who were all, as they say now, hooking up with each other.  All of these girls were engaged and as far as I know, they went through with their weddings.  I'm sure that some of them might have been really gay or bisexual, but some of them were probably just horny and just getting their rocks off.  I don't buy that what someone does at 16, sex wise, has to define them forever.  

 

I have a good friend who has a JD and she has a problem watching TV shows about lawyers, because they always get it wrong, she says.  She also told me how it's hard sometimes to be a critical TV watcher.  It's like your friends are enjoying a show and all you can do is nitpick and criticize.  She has lost people in her life because of her critical nature.

 

So even though I really like this show, I do get how some find it confusing.  Like, how did the two fugitives get on the bus?  I knew Gabriel was getting early release, but was he released then and there?  How did she get to the bus station without being seen?  I think it was insinuated that her mother was in contact with Gabriel, so maybe she was behind the escape.  I'm not saying that as an audience member I have to be drawn a picture all the time, but one line or one scene could have helped.  Other than that, I don't have any problems following this show but I can get why some might have problems with it; the show starts with a flash forward and then goes into the past; so everything, all of the cases, stories, everything we, the audience are watching, is in the past and the bonfire scene is in the present.  

[zillabreeze]

Oh Lawd.  DVR Fail.  I was all in.  If I skip this epi, am I okay?  The only place to watch online is a really uncomfortable office chair!

[mikem]

I went back and re-watched the scene where Aiden and Connor first see each other after all these years.  There is absolutely no hesitation or guilty look at all from Aiden when he first sees Connor, and all of his reactions throughout don't show any kind of hiding of a guilty conscience or trickiness.  Even after Connor tells Michaela that he and Aiden hooked up, Aiden seems mildly embarrassed but that's about it.  The show is very twisty, so anything is possible, but I think we are supposed to believe Aiden when he says that this was a one-time thing when he was 16 and it doesn't say anything about his overall sexuality.

 

I found the case of the week pretty boring, although it was nice to see David Denman again.  It wasn't well-told, but I think we are supposed to believe that Gabriel's turnaround was planned beforehand with her mother so that he could be released and run away with Elena.

 

I'm finding some of the ongoing characters interesting, but I'm not sure that any of them are likable.  Wes is sliding into annoying territory.  Someone on the show has to be likable in order for me to keep watching.

[JAYJAY1979]

I just don't like Wes, and I think it's because he is miscast with someone that looks like he should be in high school, not law school.

 

I do agree that Liza Weil has been wasted thus far, while still wondering how Asher fits in with the show.

[ribboninthesky1]

I'd forgotten about Gedrick getting several calls from Ana Ortiz' mother's phone after she visited him.  So while I'm not sure it was a setup the entire time, I guess it was set in motion once they saw each other again.  Those poor daughters, though at least they weren't babies when they were abandoned by their mother, and they still have their dad.

[Aymery]

Connor seems like a whore!  Michaela will get what she asks for IMO.  Her bat shit crazy reaction to her fiancee having fucked Connor in their teen years was just.........................  Why would she trust to marry that guy given what she's learned about him?  The next episode seems to imply that the fiancee hasn't had enough of Connor.  Michaela making threats to ruin the fiancee if he fucked other men in the future was just stupid.  He WILL fuck other men without a doubt, so why would she be willing to take a chance on him?

Connor has slept with exactly one guy since the show began, and had a fling with Michaela's now-fiance years ago in boarding school. How does that make him a whore?

 

And the fiance is perfectly entitled to an experimental phase during adolescence without it reflecting on him as gay or even bisexual all these years later. He was a horny teen in an all-boys' boarding school. It happens and it doesn't have to mean a thing in the long run. A recent survey found that more than a quarter of the British men surveyed had had some sexual contact with another man. I highly doubt that they all identify as gay/bi. The Brits, of course, are more open about these things, but I don't think the situation is that different in the US if we were just honest about it.

[theatremouse]

I thought it was being left up to the viewer whether or not he was w/holding something. Or were the flashbacks to show he was definitely lying, and I missed something?

I didn't find anything ambiguous about it. He talked to the woman at Yale, who said Sam did not show up for the lecture he should've been giving at the time of the murder, or at least, the night of the murder, in New Haven, a 3 hour drive from Philadelphia. He claimed food poisoning, which should suggest he was sick at his hotel (although I guess he also could've been at a hospital but they didn't cover that.) Checked with the parking garage. Sam's car wasn't there the night of the murder. And yet, police-boyfriend said Sam's alibi "checked out" ie he was where he said he was. But the only scenes we saw of him checking showed Sam not where he said he was. Now, like I said, Sam could've been seeking medical attention for said food poisoning, but if we were meant to believe that were possible, I'd think they'd have shown some amount of follow up of police-guy finding that out. Ergo, since he said the alibi was good, he was lying.

Edited October 11, 2014 by theatremouse

[backformore]

I'm a smart person. Why can't I follow a goddamn thing on this show?

I'm with you.  The timeline - back and forth - is confusing me.

[RedheadZombie]

I think Viola Davis is a good actress but she can't pull off the sexy bit, especially with that bad wig.

 

 

Wow, do I ever disagree.  She's a beautiful woman with womanly curves.  I'm really glad they haven't bought into the skinny body and porn star-style hair extensions that pass for sexy these days.

 

I think she's semi-successful at being sexy.  Her face is gorgeous - especially her eyes and mouth.  The wig doesn't bother me, neither do the clothes.  It's the walking in the heels - I really think that's how John Wayne would walk in heels after twelve hours on horseback.  It's jarring. I do buy her as sexy when she's using that deep voice and petting whichever guy.  It's when she suddenly turns into a quivering basket case that I question.  I think she totally faked it when Wes caught her with the cop.  I just don't buy how she's reacted to the possibility that her husband is a killer.  Cheaters are a big turn off for me (probably why I don't watch Scandal) but at least tell me why she's unhappy with her husband.   I don't like her tearful trembling with the boyfriend.  She lives to get murderers off, and I'm supposed to believe her first instinct wasn't to cover up and hide what may implicate her husband?  So that's making it difficult for me.  She believes everybody in the country has the right to a vigorous defense - except her husband.  She'll throw him under the bus in a flash.  But why???  Jealousy because he's a long term cheater?  Ambivalence because they've grown apart?  I don't know.  And even worse, we're already told he's dead, so who really cares?

 

Viola Davis is not an unattractive women, they need to up the wig budget for her. But I don't have much hope because I have never seen Scandal before, but when I turned it on last night Kerry Washington's wig wasn't that much better. And I will put on my flame retardant suit and say she is probably about 10 years too old for the part, I can't see that hot cop being that into her in reality.

 

I would only think VD was too old for the part, if we're really to believe she's trying to start a family with her husband.  It was such a lame excuse, especially since having sex with two different men isn't necessarily a treatment for fertility.  It's incredibly stupid when your husband is white and your boyfriend is a dark skinned black man.  So, I don't think that excuse was true in any way.

 

I don't like cheating, but I don't have a problem with her character attracting that cop.  There's a character on Grey's who has a gorgeous husband, and that really gets on my nerves.  But it's mostly because the character went from being a driven and dedicated doctor (comparted to a Nazi) to banging her man in the on-call room for all to hear, and juggling two guys at the same time.

[Pollock]

I think I'm a solo singer, but I am still in love w/this show. It is absolutely, primarily, on the strength and charisma of Viola Davis, but I do think this show's plots, and actors get stronger each show. Its fun to me. A great close to my Thursday night. It doesn't hurt that the hamsters look like a Gap add; although I would like to see more of their backstories. I also always love a good who-dunnit, and seeing how long it takes me to form a theory. And of course, to see if I am right.

 

I did not have a problem w/the case of the week. What I did have a problem w/is the lack of acting I actually saw from Ana Ortiz. Jason Gedrick, although usually a show killer, is a good actor when given a chance. But Ana Ortiz, although beautiful, gives me nothing in any performance I have ever seen her give. Vilola Davis did more w/her eyes, looking at Ana in her rearview mirror, than I got from the guest "star" the whole ep. I couldn't root for, or against her, 'cuz I could give a shit less.

You are not alone ! I love this show, find it highly entertaining, I have no problem with the case of the week and no problem with the flashbacks/forward either. I love how they manage to still progress in time while changing the focus from a character to another, thus they are some redundancy but not too much so I'm not annoyed/bored by them.

 

I also agree about Ana Ortiz. Here, Ugly Betty and Devious Maid, she's always the same woman I feel.

[rozen]

I don't find Annalise's breakdown at the thought of her husband being a murderer all that strange. Yes, she lives for the challenge of getting guilty people acquitted, but probably wants none of it in her own household. I can absolutely imagine her selecting Sam as a life partner specifically because he would not bring stress or lies into her life. His being a wonton murderer of young women would indicate she did not see him clearly. She's put him through the paces for what? 10, 20 years? To find out she was still completely wrong would almost certainly drive her bonkers.

 

The minute Nate said his only punishment was being barred from taking on any more cases, I strongly suspected that his actual job is to put Annalisse in prison. There's no way he could sit on the stand and admit to his department's engagement in evidence tampering and come out still employed. I'm pretty sure he is quietly building a case against Sam to be used as leverage to acquire some as of yet unspecified thing Annalisse has/knows/can procure. There is nothing less sexy than that thigh-stroking scene. "Now that we've confirmed that my husband is the innocent putz I always thought him to be, wanna get it on?"  Um, no.

 

Pretty sure just about every datapoint suggests Wes is playing everyone. Calmly and slyly cons everyone into carrying out body removal plan? Check. Whips together false license like he's making a grilled cheese sandwich? Check. Suspicious lack of belongings, friends, and family obligations? Check. Over-the-top 'aw shucks me' that could give Brad Pitt's character in Thelma and Louise a run for his money? Check. Dude's a total snake in the grass. Fully expect him and Rachel to have planned everything from the start.

 

Now I know Michaela is totally the type of character that would have gobbled down mystery books like candy as a child. Murder 101, remove all identifying jewelry and  delicate items of clothing!  It's extra unbelievable because a character that prissy would not take even the slightest risk of getting human entrails on her future rich divorcee diamond set. 

 

Anna Ortiz did absolutely nothing with that role. She might as well have been a cardboard cutout. At least with the male actor I could feel the "yea girl, I've been waiting 20 years for you" radiating off him. He was burning the house down and she looked like she was trying to remember if she separated the whites from the colors in the laundry.

Edited October 11, 2014 by rozen

[nenya]

I missed one thing. When the law students were sitting around talking, I could have sworn they said something about Frank not being a lawyer? Is that true?

[CathinAZ]

I love a good crime drama so am giving this a try. The plot line is a little convoluted and the flashbacks are getting too repetitious. We've seen the same flashback scenes in episodes 1, 2 and 3. While in some they do give some new details, I feel it's a waste of my time to see so much of the same stuff again...hope this pattern doesn't continue in future episodes.

And as a,poster mentioned above, I too found the scene in the car where she is told her husband is OK/not fooling around and then in the next minute she is coming on to the guy just wrong...hard to believe

[shapeshifter]

...Anna Ortiz did absolutely nothing with that role. She might as well have been a cardboard cutout. At least with the male actor I could feel the "yea girl, I've been waiting 20 years for you" radiating off him. He was burning the house down and she looked like she was trying to remember if she separated the whites from the colors in the laundry.

I don't recall whether I was impressed with the passion of either of them, but I love that turn of phrase (the part I bolded), rozen! Is it original?

...It's the walking in the heels - I really think that's how John Wayne would walk in heels after twelve hours on horseback....

I haven't noticed this either, but a lot of others have posted on this or agreed with ("liked") the comments. Although I could not walk well in heels at this stage of the game either--just because I have not worn them in many, many years--it occurs to me that she might have a congenital or other condition that effects her walk, so I would hesitate to mention it if I did notice. For example, my mother has a curvature of the spine that causes one leg to appear longer than the other. Other spinal curvatures can cause a slight hunch to the shoulders, leading to well-meaning people advising the person to work on his or her posture. IDK in this case, but just thought I'd mention it. I suspect a lot of folks here wouldn't have commented on it if the entire wardrobe and makeup for her had been better. Maybe they were attempting to translate the rumpled professor look for a woman?

[bantering]

I can follow what's going on, probably because sometimes they'll flashback to something several times, but I can't multi-task during the show (i.e no cleaning or moving around while watching the show). I'm not sure if this is an effective technique to get me to watch the commercials if I don't PVR the show.

 

The flash-backing on the show is annoying to me only in the sense of sometimes being immersed in the case happening that particular week and then having to go back to the other case. This week's case was sort of "interesting" to me in the sense of the lady actually having the gall to leave her family and daughters for her prison lover. I was so shocked by that. I couldn't really process why she would do any of that that (even in just a basic sense), and I wasn't sure if that was because of the show not being able to properly divide the time between two different cases (hers and Rebecca's) or because the acting was sort of flat from Ana Ortiz (i.e when she was in the car, everyone looked perplexed by her while Viola Davis's character was driving them all back. They were all looking at her kind of strangely, and I wanted to know why, because at that point I don't think we had seen her crazy colors yet).

 

Viola Davis's walk is a bit odd in heels, but then again, so is Julia Roberts's walk....I don't know if most actresses walk that well in heels except models...

 

I thought maybe the detective didn't tell her what was going on because he was afraid she might have a nervous breakdown. She seems to have a completely different personality outside the courtroom (an extremely anxious one!).

 

The girl from Gilmore Girls seems sort of....like her face bothers me but I don't know why. That coupled with her voice, and I wonder how she got cast. She doesn't scream or anything, but there's a sort of shrillness to her that's off-putting.

 

Frank looks like that guy who played GWB in the Oliver Stone movie. I forgot the actor's name.

 

I thought the young female black character was pretty direct with the fiance. I didn't find her questions towards him out of line in any way.  She gave him an out. And I think it's better to hash this out now before they get married. What would be the point of talking about this later on after all the documents are signed? I thought discussing the matter was wise (and apparently they had made a pact to discuss all their ex-es, so why didn't he discuss that one?)  Maybe she really, really loves him beyond what they can do for each other career-wise, but she's still young and pretty enough to find someone else. And lawyers on this show seem to go to a lot of social functions so I'm sure it wouldn't be hard to find for her to another partner who can fulfill her ambitions and is undeniably straight. Maybe I'm of the opinion that what the fiance did with the guy with the facial hair isn't that common if he's actually straight -- North American straight guys seem to be vigilant about avoiding anyone perceiving them a certain way,      never mind the fact that I assume he comes from an ambitious social set where aspiring to politcal careers might be the norm? Perhaps times have changed, but I've never had the impression that North American straight guys were that willing to experiment with other guys (but I'm basing this simply on what I remember from high school about how they'd react to people perceiving them as effeminate in any way whatsoever and also from what I've seen in most teen movies).  However, I'm willing to concede that perhaps things might be different for a younger current generation so maybe now it's more common? However, the fiancee did freak out like she didn't think it was that common either....

Edited October 11, 2014 by bantering

[kikaha]

Lawyers correct me if I'm wrong, but practicing law without a license/impersonating a lawyer, as Wes did, is against the law.  He wouldn't just face possible criminal charges and jail time.  I think the law school would have booted him out in a New York minute. 

 

Annalise gleefully suborns perjury from a convicted felon, to try and free an admitted terrorist who killed a man and cheats on her husband/family in public with strangers in a park. 

 

She happily breaks laws to win not guilty verdicts for people who actually committed murder.

 

She cheats on her husband, as often as she can arrange it.   

 

Yet she won't stand behind her husband, and turns over suspicions and leads about him to the police?  And despite all this, still sleeps with him? 

[FormerMod-a1]

For some reason I thought Nate told Annalise that her husband's alibi was solid to help sever their ties.  At least partly.  He seems to be "done" with her and their relationship.  If she knows her husband is still suspicious, she'll be calling Nate all the time.  Even still, she tried to put the moves on him.  That said, he will probably use this info in some way in the future, I just don't know how nefarious his intentions are at the moment.  We'll find out as we see more.

 

What I want to know is why is Wes keeping the dead girl's phone?  I know there's no way it could be used as evidence against or for anyone, even if he had turned it in right away, since there's no proof on how it ended up under his bathroom cabinet.  But he could wipe it down and anonymously leave it somewhere (cops, lawyers, parents, etc), or even throw it out somewhere.  Seems like this is the kind of thing that will come back to bite him in the ass at some point.

[wanderingstar]

I'm pretty sure whatever feelings he had for Annalise died on the stand. Which is a shame, as Shirtless Nate is a joy to behold.

 

 

True facts

[reggiejax]

Frank looks like that guy who played GWB in the Oliver Stone movie. I forgot the actor's name.

 

 

Josh Brolin.

 

Personally, I think Frank looks more like Mac from It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia. 

[ribboninthesky1]

Regarding Annalise and Sam trying to have a child - if I recall correctly, Annalise didn't put a timeline on that.  She said their relationship was strained from it, so I read that as not necessarily being recent.  It could have been from years of trying, and the strain finally took a toll.  But ultimately, I didn't think much of anything she told him because I perceived Annalise playing Wes for sympathy, to keep him quiet.

 

I thought Annalise was concerned about Sam's alibi, and reluctant to take on the case of the boyfriend, because she wanted to be prepared in case she needed to defend Sam.  Not because she wanted to throw him to the wolves.  If she wanted to do that, she could have just reported her suspicions to the police.

 

Regarding Michaela and Aiden, I agree with bantering (and whoever else mentioned this point) - Michaela's issue seemed to be that Aiden never mentioned Connor as an ex. Coupled along with Connor whispering in her ear about their escapades, I could see why the seeds of mistrust were sown there. To be fair to Aiden, assuming it was just something he did as a teenager, and he never slept with any other men, I can see why he wouldn't have mentioned it.  And I know I was supposed to think ill of Michaela for the "bespoke Vera Wang" monologue, but at least Aiden can't say he doesn't know where she stands.  This seems to be a sort of Chekov's gun, so it'll be interesting to see if that's the end of it.

 

I missed one thing. When the law students were sitting around talking, I could have sworn they said something about Frank not being a lawyer? Is that true?

 

Yes, because Annalise said to Frank, in front of everyone, "Leave the lawyering to the actual lawyers" when Frank suggested he draft a motion to find Gabriel. The students' reaction to that revelation was the first bit of natural, somewhat subtle reactions I've seen from them collectively, and it was hilarious. Especially Laurel.

[Syndicate]

Connor has slept with exactly one guy since the show began, and had a fling with Michaela's now-fiance years ago in boarding school. How does that make him a whore?

 

And the fiance is perfectly entitled to an experimental phase during adolescence without it reflecting on him as gay or even bisexual all these years later. He was a horny teen in an all-boys' boarding school. It happens and it doesn't have to mean a thing in the long run. A recent survey found that more than a quarter of the British men surveyed had had some sexual contact with another man. I highly doubt that they all identify as gay/bi. The Brits, of course, are more open about these things, but I don't think the situation is that different in the US if we were just honest about it.

I call Connor a whore because it seems like his character is defined by repeatedly hopping into bed with people.  He's been seen seducing a guy for info he wanted, he had sex with Michaela's fiancee when they were teens, and he's asking someone (Aiden?) to take their clothes off in the next episode.  Is this all that Connor does?

Edited October 11, 2014 by Syndicate

[Happytobehere]

I for one am loving the show and Viola Davis slays.

Wes is starting to trouble me, not because of his happy pants for emo, druggy chick, but because there is no foundation for the commitment and belief we have seen from him. Sans a reveal that he has stalkerish tendencies, or someone close to him was rail-roaded in the face of money and power.

Michaela comes across as privileged and selfish. If I were her fiancé, I would be out gay, straight or bi. everything she talked about was herself and how things impact her and how she would destroy him if something he did hurt her plans and aspirations. Nothing about love, nothing about the two of them as a couple and people, just ME, ME, and more ME. That relationship is doomed. Fiance better get out while the getting is good.

I love Connor because I think he is the most honest about who he is and what he wants. Good bad or indifferent, everyone knows better than to turn their back on Connor because he will shiv them if given the chance. Based on what we have seen so far, he is best suited to succeed in Annalise's world because he does seem to get it for the most part and he is willing to put himself out there in a way Micheala does not seem equipped to because image matters too much, and Wes is seemingly too naïve to do, although he does appear to be the driving force in this murder cover-up. Yes he needs to grow more as his comment about not having a defense for the bomber demonstrates, but I think with mentoring from Annalise he will get there.

Thus far, the characters I am having a problem with are rich, white guy and I like Frank girl. Three episodes in, I still can't rember their names, or see them contributing in ways that could not be divided between Wes, Michaela and Connor.

As fir the show itself, unless something drastically changes, I'm in for the season.

Edited October 11, 2014 by Happytobehere

[Syndicate]

Also, does Michaela even LOVE Aiden?  I don't think she does at all.  All of the rambling on about her career and threatening to destroy his life/career if he sleeps with other men reveals everything about her feelings in this.  She's going to marry him anyway knowing that he's had Connor in the sack.  What does this say about HER?  The ball is certainly in her court on this issue.

[bantering]

 

Michaela comes across as privileged and selfish. If I were her fiancé, I would be out gay, straight or bi. everything she talked about was herself and how things impact her and how she would destroy him if something he did hurt her plans and aspirations. Nothing about love, nothing about the two of them as a couple and people, just ME, ME, and more ME. That relationship is doomed. Fiance better get out while the getting is good.

 

 

But at least she seems upfront about all of that. He can't say he doesn't know that she's self-absorbed. She's obviously ambitious and doesn't hide it from anyone. She's given him a chance to leave. If he doesn't take it, he can't whine that she manipulated him when their marriage goes down the tubes (which it might, not just because of the gay thing, but because he seemed to be less inclined towards a work-a-holic career when they were talking about their day in bed). If he wants to go into politics, I don't get why he thinks he can hide his experimenting though (although maybe THAT's why he didn't tell Michaela?) When has the US media ever given anyone any privacy? Even if the mainstream media leaves him alone, we know the National Enquirer won't care.  And if Connor is drunk enough, I'm sure he would accidentally blab to an undercover reporter. I was surprised when he told Michaela about her fiance, because for some reason (though I have no idea why I think this) I figured a gay friend would cover his allegedly straight friend on that issue. The way he so casually told Michaela about the fiance made me wonder if he thinks the fiance is gay too (although even then I thought Connor might have covered for him because of the etiquette issues surrounding outing either someone's orientation or behavior that might make you question what orientation the person might be. It was perplexing to me why Connor was acting like he was Perez Hilton to Michaela). 

Edited October 11, 2014 by bantering

[kikaha]

 

If she wanted to do that, she could have just reported her suspicions to the police.

 

That's exactly what she did: Nate is the police.

 

Is Nate going to simply forget the information he dug up on Sam?  Nate -- a detective IIRC -- now knows Sam is a suspect in an unsolved murder. I'm very curious to see what he does going forward. 

[Atony]

I figured a gay friend would cover his allegedly straight friend on that issue. The way he so casually told Michaela about the fiance made me wonder if he thinks the fiance is gay too (although even then I thought Connor might have covered for him because of the etiquette issues surrounding outing either someone's orientation or behavior that might make you question what orientation the person might be. It was perplexing to me why Connor was acting like he was Perez Hilton to Michaela).

 

I am a gay guy who has fooled around with a couple straight guys who I have every reason to believe are straight and are now in serious relationships with women.  I would never say anything, the majority of gay guys wouldn't, but I think that is the point, Connor would.  He is a cut-throat bitch who wanted to mess with Michaela's head.  The weirdest part was Aiden not being very mad at Connor for blabbing their history, that rang very untrue to me.

 

I agree with whatever poster said Connor seems the law school student that is most adapated to fit into Professor Keating's world, you even see that in the flash forwards when he is scarily put-together over covering up a murder, 

 

And I get people saying Connor and Michaela have chemistry, but I think it is a combination that it is the classic antagonistic one-up each other relationship.  And the fact that Jack Falahee plays Connor as if he is always a little deviously flirty, as someone said it is that damn perpetual smirk.

Edited October 11, 2014 by Atony

[bantering]

 

Lawyers correct me if I'm wrong, but practicing law without a license/impersonating a lawyer, as Wes did, is against the law.  He wouldn't just face possible criminal charges and jail time.  I think the law school would have booted him out in a New York minute.

I'm not a lawyer, but I wonder if you only get charged if you impersonate a lawyer or a licensed one  in a courtroom?

Up to that point, I thought his fake ID (was that an ID simply indentifying the name and face  or an actual ID for a law licenseto gain entry into that place?) would have been more of an issue.  I didn't understand why he just didn't get to the point right away though.  He had to be escorted out before he would let her know the boyfriend was going to pin it on her. If he weren't a well-meaning lawyer type in contrast to everyone else on the show who is a cut-throat snake, I'd assume he was a stalker....

Edited October 11, 2014 by bantering

[caracas1914]

Connor seems like a whore!  Michaela will get what she asks for IMO.  Her bat shit crazy reaction to her fiancee having fucked Connor in their teen years was just.........................  Why would she trust to marry that guy given what she's learned about him?  The next episode seems to imply that the fiancee hasn't had enough of Connor.  Michaela making threats to ruin the fiancee if he fucked other men in the future was just stupid.  He WILL fuck other men without a doubt, so why would she be willing to take a chance on him?

 

I think Michaela's reaction was partially because of who her finacee slept with, Connor; aka  her competitive douche bag rival.  That had to be doubly humiliating.  Connor did try to explain that he was hitting on all the hot boys in school so that was a smarmy BH compliment to her choice in men, but God, to reveal her finacee's teenage experimentation was cold.   I think Connor did it to  get an edge on her for their competition, which , cold or not, is actually smart.

Edited October 11, 2014 by caracas1914

[wanderingstar]

And I get people saying Connor and Michaela have chemistry, but I think it is a combination that it is the classic antagonistic one-up each other relationship.

 

 

Agreed. Not all chemistry is romantic chemistry.

[bantering]

Before I knew Connor is gay, I thought he was flirting with Michaela. I wasn't sure if that was intentional though.

[Bina]

Does Wes remind anyone else of C. Thomas Howell in Soul Man? It's all I can think of when he's onscreen

[Haleth]

I get that this is a dark show and characters have secrets, but I'm having trouble rooting for anyone because they all seem to be jerks.

 

I agree.  The only one I can root for now is Wes because he seems like a sweet kid, but if he continues to be so naive and impulsive he'll lose points with me.  Everyone else is either a smug jerk or a piece of cardboard.

 

Hate the time jumps but I'm more interested in the co-ed murder mystery than the case of the week.  I think we'll only have the other students fleshed out in the flashbacks.

Random thing that I can overlook.  Since extras tend not to speak, I get why Annalise only calls on her 5 special students in class.  Though if she keeps it up in a class that size, it might get frustrating.

 

Not to the other students who are probably relieved to be overlooked. ;)

 

So where is Checkov's Ring going to turn up?

 

Lawyers correct me if I'm wrong, but practicing law without a license/impersonating a lawyer, as Wes did, is against the law.  He wouldn't just face possible criminal charges and jail time.  I think the law school would have booted him out in a New York minute.

 

True story here.  My son the law student said the first week of school he was outside between classes and a woman came up to him and asked for legal advice.  He refused and she went around asking other students for help.  He's convinced she was a school employee testing the L1s.  Not that they know anything anyway.

 

Is Nate going to simply forget the information he dug up on Sam?  Nate -- a detective IIRC -- now knows Sam is a suspect in an unsolved murder. I'm very curious to see what he does going forward.

 

Hmm.  Maybe that's why he lied to her.  He can now do a (legal) investigation without Annalise knowing about it or blocking any evidence.

[Stinger97]

Y'all, while I'm no fan of Connor either, let's refrain from using words like "whore" and "slut" to describe him. There are more articulate ways to make your point. Thanks!

[ribboninthesky1]

That's exactly what she did: Nate is the police.

 

Is Nate going to simply forget the information he dug up on Sam?  Nate -- a detective IIRC -- now knows Sam is a suspect in an unsolved murder. I'm very curious to see what he does going forward.

 

Nate, per his own words, is on probation.  It was made clear that he wasn't asking questions and investigating as an active, on-duty police officer.  I don't know what he'll do with what he discovered, but my point was that if Annalise wanted to throw Sam under the bus, she could have gone into the police station and reported her suspicions officially and on the record.     

 

To me, she went to Nate because she felt she could trust him to tell her one way or the other WITHOUT official police involvement. I disagree with that, but that's what I perceived to be her motivation.

ETA:

But at least she seems upfront about all of that. He can't say he doesn't know that she's self-absorbed. She's obviously ambitious and doesn't hide it from anyone. She's given him a chance to leave. If he doesn't take it, he can't whine that she manipulated him when their marriage goes down the tubes (which it might, not just because of the gay thing, but because he seemed to be less inclined towards a work-a-holic career when they were talking about their day in bed).

Yep, I have no sympathy for Aiden. He's an adult, so if he wanted out, he'd be out.

Edited October 11, 2014 by ribboninthesky1

[caracas1914]

Does Wes remind anyone else of C. Thomas Howell in Soul Man? It's all I can think of when he's onscreen

 

LOL...like minds....I had mentioned this on the Character/Actor sub thread...

 

It is so distracting to me...