S10.E01: Black

[supposebly]

 

Sequence:

- Cain makes Deal with Lucifer and takes on the Mark.

.....

 

Oh wow, I really didn't pay enough attention.

 

Ok then. I do wonder what Sam and Cas were thinking. Did they think the demon possessing Dean's body wrote the note? Was Sam basically just after Crowley to get Dean's body back and maybe make a deal in the process to get Dean back too?

 

This is all so messed up. I think I like it. Does Crowley not realize that he might be in danger of that blade too?

 

So, they will get Dean back through the power of brotherly and Castielly love? And maybe get the mark back to Cain and the bees eventually.

 

I adore that Sam still has no clue about cars.

[SueB]

Oh wow, I really didn't pay enough attention.

OR, I just am slightly obsessed in a completely-over-the-top-kinda-way. I can never tell.

 

Ok then. I do wonder what Sam and Cas were thinking. Did they think the demon possessing Dean's body wrote the note? Was Sam basically just after Crowley to get Dean's body back and maybe make a deal in the process to get Dean back too?

 

I think that for at least 6+ weeks Sam knew Dean was somehow alive-ish because Dean wrote the note.  He didn't know if it was Dean or not.  THEN, when he saw the black eyes, he thought Dean was dead and Crowley put a demon in him to "parade around". That new perspective happened in this episode.  Crowley set him straight that Dean is Demon!Dean.  I presume Sam was going after Crowley because he figured Crowley was with Dean or knew what happened. At the end of 9.23 he verbalized that this was Crowley's fault.

 

This is all so messed up. I think I like it. Does Crowley not realize that he might be in danger of that blade too?

I think he knows. I think he's living on the edge!

 

So, they will get Dean back through the power of brotherly and Castielly love? And maybe get the mark back to Cain and the bees eventually.

No clue.

 

I adore that Sam still has no clue about cars.

Me too.  Although he said he fixed up the Impala at the start of S8, I presume that was minor body and glass work and not the innards. Plus, it emphasizes how he STILL relies on Dean.

[supposebly]

 

- Cain goes nuttty, becomes a Knight of Hell, creates an Order of Knights, runs a terror party for a few millenia

I wonder if that is what Crowley is trying to prevent. Or even trying to create. Just under his command.

[SueB]

 

I wonder if that is what Crowley is trying to prevent. Or even trying to create. Just under his command.

Good question.  I finally got to rewatch the whole thing tonight (versus just a few scenes).  What struck me was Dean's reaction to his conversation with Crowley. He went on a real bender after Crowley offered him a seat at his side.  I think Dean feels betrayed and manipulated.  I know. It's Crowley. But Dean said "the deal was, we howl at the moon".  So for whatever reason, Dean seemed to think he and Crowley were on the same page. He said "you lied." when he found out Crowley sent the demons after him.  I don't think he's pissed about the demon chum. He's pissed Crowley manipulated the circumstances. And is unapologetic.  Then Crowley follows it up with his offer..  BIG mistake IMO.

 

I think Dean would have been okay if Crowley had said that he set him up with the demons to make it more challenging and hiding it to not spoil the challenge. But Dean KNEW it was an Abaddon faithful.  And Crowley put "long live Abaddon" in his text -- so clearly "Boss" (phone screen) was supposed to be someone other than Crowley.  It could be interpreted that Crowley was trying to get Dean into a "Growley and Squirrel" vs "Abaddon Faithful" mindset.  To team them up not just as drinking buddies but from a 'professional' point of view.  Manipulation -- worse than a simple lie actually.

 

And what does Crowley want from Dean in a 'professional' sense?  He wants Dean to be his loyal killer -- as you said, HIS Knight.  His enforcer. The dark version of "good little soldier".  Yeah. That'll go over well with Dean.  Not.  So I think that's why Dean went on a bender. He feels used...again.

Edited October 11, 2014 by SueB

[7kstar]

Personally I think Cas got sent away because of Destiel. S8 really fed that potential for many and that is 'not the story they are telling' per cast and writers. I ADORE Cas/Dean but don't Destiel. So, I'm kinda bitter that they are ruthlessly deconstructing a beautiful friendship because they couldn't see obvious/completely reasonable interpretations to what they wrote before. JMO YMMV.  

They are using the excuse in order to get who these characters are and to add growth to their characters you have to see them react to other characters.  Anytime you have a great broromance - slash happens and since they DO want to keep this story family friendly they will not write Destiel so the natural course would be to separate Dean and Cas.  I do think if they are smart they will pair Cas and Sam which will add a new twist. 

 

Plus they had a weird line last year where Dean said something about Cas being a "weird little man".  We can blame the mark on that line, but I think that was an attempt by the writers to put the brakes on Destiel.  Just not possible, once fans create something you can't uncreate it.  I'm not interested in Destiel but if you read anything across the web, there is a large fan base that is.  So the question becomes how can you get away from it, separate the characters and pair them up with someone else.  I really wish the writers were better and to some degree it's their own fault for fanning the fire so to speak.  JMV  But I agree the storyline for Cas isn't interesting and the angel storyline is weak at best.

 

I wonder if that is what Crowley is trying to prevent. Or even trying to create. Just under his command.

I always thought that Crowley wanted his own knight under his command and has been trying to convert Dean into that role.  Hence the speech from last season as he needed a way to convince Dean not to blame him for turning into a demon.  Crowley always has a selfish plan and doesn't do anything without an agenda for how it helps him.  This most likely was his personality before being a demon and it's just gotten bigger.  I think Crowley goofed, he doesn't really get Dean and his betrayal will bite him in the butt.

 

I think the whole point they are trying to show with the angels and rather poorly, is that they couldn't think for themselves so God create man.  If he failed with the angels so to speak, what about a human that has zero superpowers but can imagine and create.  Then the angels were set up to protect the weak humans because they have zero superpowers but over time that gets boring.  Any angel that starts to think for themselves or shows human emotions is considered bad and must be taken care of otherwise they could turn into a Metatron.  Hannah always had moments of being too driven by rules so her characterization seems natural but I agree I liked the angels they killed and I would rather they had killed Hannah instead and somehow use her grace to keep Cas going. 

[supposebly]

 

But Dean said "the deal was, we howl at the moon".

 

Another thing I don't really understand. What deal did they make? Dean doesn't kill Crowley in exchange for what? What did Crowley offer in exchange for "howling at the moon?". A promise he would get him out of there? Why would he need Crowley for that?

 

What prevented Dean from simply getting up from that bed, skewering Crowley with his bone (heh!) and then go "howl at the moon"? A promise to feed that mark? Apparently, that wasn't part of it.

 

What does Dean need Crowley for? How does Crowley keep him around?

[DittyDotDot]

Another thing I don't really understand. What deal did they make? Dean doesn't kill Crowley in exchange for what? What did Crowley offer in exchange for "howling at the moon?". A promise he would get him out of there? Why would he need Crowley for that?

 

What prevented Dean from simply getting up from that bed, skewering Crowley with his bone (heh!) and then go "howl at the moon"? A promise to feed that mark? Apparently, that wasn't part of it.

 

What does Dean need Crowley for? How does Crowley keep him around?

 

My guess, Demon Dean doesn't want to be alone anymore than regular Dean did. The way he tried to get the truck stop waitress to bail town with him made me think he wanted a "buddy" almost as much as Crowley did, just for different reasons.

[supposebly]

He just needed a fwiend? I don't really buy that. I would have thought this mark thing, if nothing else, should have been liberating him from his dependency issues. Choose his friends instead of latching on to the first face he sees after waking up.

 

This whole thing gets more puzzling to me the more I think about it. I really hope the writers have a plan that doesn't involve completely out-of-character moments.

[DittyDotDot]

Yeah, I used to like the Kool-Aid too, but it had serious side effects--namely being utterly disappointed later--so I stopped drinking it. I took a while to work out of my system, but I'm feeling much more skeptical now. Or should I say, I'm feeling better now? ;)

 

I don't know that needing a fwiend is the only factor, but I think it might be some of the motivation. For the most part, I think Dean's just doing whatever he wants and is more like a sheltered teenager going off to college. He's free of home and responsibility and has all this newness to explore, so he doesn't want to go to class and do his homework--he just wants to PARTY and experience his new life. Crowley was feeding into that need, so it was fine until he decided Crowley wasn't really with him. Which, it's Crowley dude, he's only with himself. But the waitress bit made me think he wanted someone to blow town with, like the party wasn't as much fun by himself.

[SueB]

 

What does Dean need Crowley for? How does Crowley keep him around?

Personally I'm convinced there's SOMETHING.  Dean said "I got that six weeks ago." And he also said he made a deal.  So, I think the deal was Dean wouldn't gut Crowley if Crowley would do SOMETHING.  So...what is that something I think is a mystery.  What we've got so far:

- Dean is not 100% in control.  Not even remotely but he's self aware enough to know he's got got some problem even if he's in denial about how big of a problem he has.  He went overboard on the boyfriend Matt (BTW, Lisa had a Matt too...of course Crowley had him killed). I think Dean counted on Crowley to keep him reigned in.

- His drunken "you all suck" was SOOOO telling for me. You don't get that shit faced alone and are happy about it.  So yes, the companionship has been good. But not just because Dean doesn't like to be alone.  Too alone is a problem for him -- maybe he thinks too much, maybe it's boring, maybe it's something else -- but immediately trying to get a substitute in Ann Marie said Crowley was filling SOME role.

- Crowley used the term midwife. As in birthing Demon!Dean.  It seems to me that Dean may have needed a little help when he first woke up and Crowley was there to provide it.  What kind of help I'm not sure but Crowley probably sold him on howling at the moon and running away from responsibility. He probably offered to show him the ropes on controlling the Mark/Blade. And Dean probably needed that initial help. 

 

But then Crowley had to go and push the issue.  And Dean was not on-board with "Phase 2" of their relationship. Whatever was the "deal", Crowley is attempting to change the terms and gave Dean the night to consider it. Dean's response was to skip town.  I'm certain we'll hear more. 

 

BTW, I was watching Dark Side of the Moon on the plane today (on my iPad). And Dean's complaint about Heaven was that it was missing the triplets and the latex.  Now, I'm not sure exactly what Dean's fantasy is but it seems to me, he an Crowley achieved that 'extraordinary' fantasy with triplets that has apparently been on Dean's bucket list.  I'm trying not to think too much about it because I can't figure out how Crowley fit in that equation.  Just putting that out there.  The other thing is that in Bad Boys in S9, young Dean said he wanted to be a rock star or a mechanic.  So, I'm guessing he thinks he's awesome at singing and the Karaoke is his attempt to live that rock star fantasy.  Crowley even joked about leaving the club circuit and going to the stadiums.  Now in this case, I think ACTUALLY becoming a rock star is not remotely in the cards.  Dean needs to live a low-profile existence.  But I find it interesting that two of the unique "Dean fantasies" we've heard over the years were apparently part of his Demon!Dean party train (singing and triplets). 

[DittyDotDot]

BTW, I was watching Dark Side of the Moon on the plane today (on my iPad). And Dean's complaint about Heaven was that it was missing the triplets and the latex.  Now, I'm not sure exactly what Dean's fantasy is but it seems to me, he an Crowley achieved that 'extraordinary' fantasy with triplets that has apparently been on Dean's bucket list. 

 

Triplets? I guess I missed that in this episode. But, didn't Dean already have triplets in The Magnificent Seven?

 

ETA: Oh never mind, I just remember they were twins. Stupid memory. ;)

Edited October 11, 2014 by DittyDotDot

[SueB]

Triplets? I guess I missed that in this episode.

Crowley: "We've howled, we've bayed, w-we've done extraordinary things to triplets. All of which have been massively entertaining. I will treasure our flickr album forever."

[Happytobehere]

Well the problem with making Dean a demon was on full display tonight. If they make him too demony and having him killing people and whatnot, how do you bring him back to the Dean of the show? So, instead we get Dean whose main vice as far as we can tell is bad karaoke singing, cause the women, porn and snark were parts of original recipe.

What is the point of tha Cas storyline?

Hopefully things pick up.

[SueB]

 

What is the point of tha Cas storyline?

Seriously debatable at this point but if I was to hazard a guess (after rewatching), Cas, who has apparently always been the unusual angel with the crack in his chassis, STILL is not fitting in.  He's relating more to the "rogues" than Hannah.  That is sort of blah blah boring cakes.  We KNOW this.  He also is refusing to go back to Heaven and letting them sort themselves out.  I thought he went with Hannah because she made it sound like the angels who were refusing to go back were dangerous. Cas still feels he has to clean up the fallen angel mess.  Cause, he did kinda get suckered into helping make that mess.  Again, nothing new.

 

So... the only point I got is that Cas is getting weaker and the only thing that'll get him out of bed is a lead on Dean or cleaning up the fallen angel mess.  Oh...and he still has outrageous blue eyes and a tattoo on his ribs.

[DittyDotDot]

Crowley: "We've howled, we've bayed, w-we've done extraordinary things to triplets. All of which have been massively entertaining. I will treasure our flickr album forever."

 

Ah, thanks for that SueB. I tuned out a lot of the speechifying since it kept lulling me into a coma. I recall the flickr album part though. I don't know that triplets are the biggest fantasy Dean has ever had, but it would be all part of the party, IMO.

 

Angels are boring and, other than Cass, I can't really recall at time they haven't been boring. There's a lot of good story potential there, but they keep making them carbon copies of each other--they're just so one note. I guess Balthazar was different and entertaining-ish, though.

[catrox14]

I liked the dick angels. Zachariah, Uriel, Balthazar, Lucifer , Michael, Naomi, Anna and Rachel. They had power and we're really interesting characters played with aplomb by great actors. Metatron is just obnoxious without any of the charm of the others. IMO we got close again with Gabriel. I DON'T care about the angel civil war anymore.

Edited October 13, 2014 by catrox14

[Hana Chan]

The problem with the angel storyline is the total disconnect with what's happening with the Winchesters. I'm sorry for the Castiel fans who feel that he is a lead on par with Sam and Dean and warrants his own independent storylines, but the brothers are still the heart and center of the show and Castiel is at his best when his storyline is tied to his relationship with them in some capacity. But separated like this, it feels like an extra limb that just drags the pacing of the episode to a grinding halt.

[7kstar]

I liked the dick angels. Zachariah, Uriel, Balthazar, Lucifer , Michael, Naomi, Anna and Rachel. They had power and we're really interesting characters played with aplomb by great actors. Metatron is just obnoxious without any of the charm of the others. IMO we got close again with Gabriel. I DON'T care about the angel civil war anymore.

Gabriel and Cas would be interesting because it could cause some interesting conflict which is what this story needs if it is to be compelling.

 

The problem with the angel storyline is the total disconnect with what's happening with the Winchesters. I'm sorry for the Castiel fans who feel that he is a lead on par with Sam and Dean and warrants his own independent storylines, but the brothers are still the heart and center of the show and Castiel is at his best when his storyline is tied to his relationship with them in some capacity. But separated like this, it feels like an extra limb that just drags the pacing of the episode to a grinding halt.

My problem is that they don't seem to know what they are trying to tell and just when it gets a little interesting they go back to blah blah blah.   The conflict is weak and good storytelling needs conflict and a tie end with the winchesters would help.  If it showed how it could hurt humans or felt like it meant something I could get interested.  But as it is done now, it just doesn't interest me that much. 

 

I know a lot liked this ep, but I only liked moments and it is one of the weakest openings compared to season openers.  However, I'm hopeful that next week it will get more interesting. 

 

I also get that Crowley and Cas are there to give Jensen and Jared a break and that is understandable but I hope they figure out how to tell something new.  It seems like their angels version isn't better than "Touch by an Angel" and there is a new direction they could take if they really got clear on what story they were trying to tell.  I think some of the jokes are hurting instead of adding to the storyline.  So right now, I can agree I'm not really interested in the angel war.

[Infie]

I liked the episode! I agree that this version of Demon!Dean wasn't what I was expecting but I like the hints that Crowley is doing all of this because he's afraid of what happens when he doesn't. Kind of like the Twilight Zone ep with the kid who killed people who displeased him. Crowley's tiptoeing with Dean, and I think Sam forced his hand before he was ready.

On a purely shallow note, I like Jensen's longer hair.

When did Cas get the rib tattoo? I'm drawing a blank on whether or not Jimmy had one.

[DittyDotDot]

Last season when he was human and the angels were hunting him, Cass went and got an Enochian tattoo to hide himself from them.

[Infie]

Ah, thanks.  I'd forgotten that part.  (Love the tattoo glimpses though!)

[SueB]

So I did a lot of end-zone victory dancing over "I'm too sexy" (cause I predicted that one in July).  Turns out that they really wanted "All By Myself" instead of "I'm too Sexy" ... so, if someone had that song, they get to join me in the endzone as mine was a second/third choice (depending on where "Imaginary Lover" fits in).

 

Going into hyperanalysis mode:

I'm Too Sexy -- Dean feels like he's hot-shit (he's not wrong)

All By Myself - Dean wants fwiends (I'm kinda glad they weren't that on the nose)

Imaginary Lover - Well if the sex was good with Ann Marie.... why does he need an imaginary lover?  Is this a metaphor for finding happiness? That NO ONE is his perfect partner (aka not Sam, not Cas, not Crowley).  Dude has abandonment issues.  Just sayin'

[millennium]

That wasn't a bad way to spend 40 minutes or whatever.    Crowley's reference to his and Dean's "Flickr albums" was hiliarious and I can't even remember the last time I heard "Imaginary Lover."

 

Dean is Demon Lite, it seems.   Possibly because he doesn't have a joyriding hell-spawn inside him.    Whatever, he looks more relaxed and refreshed than he has in a few seasons.   Howling at the moon seems to agree with him.   Demon Dean might be more chilling if he dropped the Batman growl, to indicate that something fundamental has changed.

 

Sammy needs to eat a hamburger or something. 

[catrox14]

So I was rewatching Black.  I am now convinced that Crowley knew exactly what he was doing all along that POS. I didn't pick up on this until rewatch.

 

"I don't know what's going on with you. I truly don't. But I've had just about enough of it. Sold you out? Try “doing you a favor.” everything I've done for you for the past six months -- the mark, the First Blade,midwifing you back to life, offering you a seat by my side -- has been a favor, a gift, whether you see it or you don't. Take the night. Decide. You know where to find me."

 

Fuck him. He knew that it would turn Dean and that was exactly what he wanted. 

"Dean, I don't know what is going on with you but

[catrox14]

Rewatching this episode...It would have been so much better by leaving out the Cole introduction scene. I mean I would have been fine with just having Cole show up and kidnap Sam before we understood who he was. That would have been a far scarier thing than this douchey guy that is a massively lesser potential Gordon. I miss Gordon.

 

So I saw this on tumblr....that the guys that Dean and Crowley were playing foosball against were twins. I never really noticed it until I saw that post and then rewatching tonight ...which leads one to wonder...were those guys 2/3 of the triplets that were discussed??? 

[Altered Reality]

Saw this for the first time tonight.  I've been massively spoiled on this one, so it was a bit weird watching. 

Some random thoughts:

Demon!Dean is rather amusing, until he's not. 

Which meaning of "pants" was Crowley using?  Either one is funny, but the UK version would be funnier.

Where on earth is Cass staying?  That place is seriously nasty, can't be good for a guy in his condition. Seriously, why is he not in the bunker? (As an aside, what the h-e-double hockey sticks is Hanna wearing?)

I didn't like the Cole introduction.  I think it's worse knowing his back story.  I feel for the wife and little boy, Cole not so much. 

How come Angels are so friggin' stupid and prone to violence? Especially towards each other.  I don't understand how they haven't managed to wipe themselves out by now.

Speaking of stupid, Sam, Sam, Sam!  You know better than to trust a stranger.  Particularly one who shows up, oh so conveniently, just as you have car trouble on some backwater side road.  Dude!

 

 

So I saw this on tumblr....that the guys that Dean and Crowley were playing foosball against were twins. I never really noticed it until I saw that post and then rewatching tonight ...which leads one to wonder...were those guys 2/3 of the triplets that were discussed???

catrox14  I don't know if I should curse you or thank you for putting this conundrum in my head :D

[SueB]

Which meaning of "pants" was Crowley using?  Either one is funny, but the UK version would be funnier.

 

It's my headcanon that Dean was commando at that moment. Considering the previous activity. Which is just astonishing in a "he REALLY doesn't give a shit" kinda of way.

[Altered Reality]

It's my headcanon that Dean was commando at that moment. Considering the previous activity. Which is just astonishing in a "he REALLY doesn't give a shit" kinda of way.

That was my first assumption, but having run afoul of the different meaning of the word myself, I did wonder what the writers intended. I know which version I prefer ;D

 

Oh and yeah, I agree the level of not giving a shitness there.(and that is totally a word, it is spell check ;p )

[catrox14]

 

catrox14  I don't know if I should curse you or thank you for putting this conundrum in my head :D

 

You're welcome.

Oh Dean was 100% commando and dear GODS....that will not be taken away from me. NO NO NO

[SueB]

Re-re-watching... because IDK ...but letting myself skip ahead (Cole's morning routine? Nope.).

 

What holds up for me:

- The gas station attendant, "Say. My. Name.", was great.  I love it when they get good small-bit actors. 

- Sam putting air quotes around "porn guy".  I'm thinking Sam was just too raw, having just seen Dean with the black eyes, to refer to Dean in such a manner. Because, it's not like it wasn't an accurate description. 

- The Crowley/Sam conversation.  First, Mark Sheppard looks TINY in this episode.  He really was super skinny.  Second, Crowley is sooooooo in love with his bestie Dean.  And he really loves giving Sam the "nanny nanny boo boo" snark.

- Crowley really underestimates Dean. Why did he think Dean would be remotely interested in anything that implied "work"?

- "Pants?" And Dean's complete lack of "give-a-shit".

- Dean is pretty damn dark at the end. Full S10 spoilers

Whether or not he realizes it, being best buds with Crowley actually DID limit the damage Demon Dean did (in terms of human carnage) during those first 6 weeks. Crowley fed him a diet of partying with occasional demon chum. Without that, there would have been more "Matt's" and the bouncer-dude from the next episode.  Sure, Dean did embarrassing things as he partied with the King of Hell.  But at least it wasn't a murder-spree.

- I'm Dean/Crowley bromance trash.  I WANT to see that Flickr album. 

Edited March 6, 2016 by SueB

[catrox14]

Re-re-watching... because IDK ...but letting myself skip ahead (Cole's morning routine? Nope.).

 

What holds up for me:

- The gas station attendant, "Say. My. Name.", was great.  I love it when they get good small-bit actors. 

- Sam putting air quotes around "porn guy".  I'm thinking Sam was just too raw, having just seen Dean with the black eyes, to refer to Dean in such a manner. Because, it's not like it wasn't an accurate description. 

- The Crowley/Sam conversation.  First, Mark Sheppard looks TINY in this episode.  He really was super skinny.  Second, Crowley is sooooooo in love with his bestie Dean.  And he really loves giving Sam the "nanny nanny boo boo" snark.

- Crowley really underestimates Dean. Why did he think Dean would be remotely interested in anything that implied "work"?

- "Pants?" And Dean's complete lack of "give-a-shit".

- Dean is pretty damn dark at the end. Full S10 spoilers

Whether or not he realizes it, being best buds with Crowley actually DID limit the damage Demon Dean did (in terms of human carnage) during those first 6 weeks. Crowley fed him a diet of partying with occasional demon chum. Without that, there would have been more "Matt's" and the bouncer-dude from the next episode.  Sure, Dean did embarrassing things as he partied with the King of Hell.  But at least it wasn't a murder-spree.

- I'm Dean/Crowley bromance trash.  I WANT to see that Flickr album. 

 

 

re your spoiler.  I

have always assumed there WERE a lot more "Matts", bouncers, pawed strippers, Ann-Marie's.  I think Crowley was both keeping Dean's bloodlust in check and fueling it at the same time with  sending him demon chud.  I don't think Dean just went from what we saw in Black to killing Lester without 4 months of other violent behavior.

Edited March 6, 2016 by catrox14

[Goldmoon]

Given Crowley's gender-swapping in s11 I have this idea in my head that dean had him several times in female - or male - bodies. Or vice versa. I'll be in my bunk.

[catrox14]

So I came across a post on Tumblr that was showing Demon!Dean in bed with Ann-Marie. I'm not posting this for the eye candy but to point out that demon!Dean is rubbing the Mark right after he has sex. I swear to Gods I never noticed it. I noticed that he grabbed his arm but I didn't notice he was actually thumbing the Mark implying that sex doesn't really help him feel better OR he seems to get almost as much pleasure from that as he probably got from sex judging by Dean's face as he's rubbing the Mark.

OR that even in his moments of pleasure etc The Mark is ALWAYS affecting him and on his mind.  WOW. Jensen Fucking Ackles making a great choice that I am mad I never noticed until now.

Edited May 3, 2016 by catrox14

[RulerofallIsurvey]

Haven't read through the comments, so some of this might be redundant.  I just need to get a couple thoughts out before I forget them.  Yes, that's a problem for me.  :)

• Where is Cas staying and why isn't he at the bunker if he's that sick?  WTF?
• Why not just leave the "rogue" angels alone?  If they aren't bothering anyone, or hurting humanity (which is supposed to be their mission, isn't it?  Protect Humanity?) then leave 'em the Hell alone.  Hannah is really getting on my nerves.  I can't believe Cas went along with that BS, since he's gone rogue himself to stick by his Winchesters.
• If that's Dean's idea of cutting loose and howling at the moon - Good Guck, I feel sorry for him.  That's pathetic.  He's got Crowley.  He could go anywhere.  ANYWHERE.  How about Jamaica, the Bahamas, or Hawaii?  Come on, Dean - chicks in bikinis?  I can't believe he wouldn't be all for that.  
• I was amused by Sam's reactions when talking to the store clerk.  
• Oh, AnneMarie - you hardly know Dean?  I'd say you know him very well - biblically speaking.  Heh.  Dean's face though when she took that last shot away from him was so sad - hopeful and lost simultaneously.  
• This Cole dude is pretty scary.  I think he's scarier than Deanmon.  
• Sam is not that ignorant about cars.  Dean started teaching him how to take care of Baby way back.  He'd immediately know that box with a big red light wasn't supposed to be there and be suspicious.  

The Sam and Dean parts were good.  Dean as pathetic drunk bad karaoke singing demon was...well,..let's just say I expected more out of that story line when his eyes turned black at the end of S9.  Way too much time spent on the angel roundup and Cole at home.  

[Dobian]

Sam: What did Porn Guy say when he came in?

Clerk: Uh...'Where's the porn'?

LOL.  The only thing is, would Dean of all people really have to ask where the porn is in a convenience store?

[rue721]

I'm doing a kind of half-assed rewatch until the S12 premiere because I'm bored and why not! I couldn't decide where to start, so I'm starting here...

This episode was worse than I'd remembered, actually. Not that it was terrible, but at the time it aired I really liked it. I guess that goes to show how the show has improved since then (and how I've raised my standards because of it!).

I enjoyed Sam and Crowley more and Demon!Dean less than I remembered, too. Castiel's storyline was so boring that even now, on my n-th rewatch of this episode over the course of a couple years, I STILL don't know what he was actually doing or why. I hate Cole with the power of a thousand suns. And what is with the accent when the character is supposedly from upstate NY?

But eh, that's just repeating what everyone else has pretty much said. So I guess the point is, I agree with the general consensus...

My favorite scenes were when Demon!Dean was nasty to Anne-Marie, and when he was on the phone with Cole. He was acting utterly unlike Dean, but at the same time, he wasn't acting completely off the wall, either.

On 10/10/2014 at 0:23 PM, Mcolleague said:

Demon!Dean is completely missing the air of vulnerability that regular Dean has. It's a totally different vibe, all sleazy and careless and I don't know... there are actually scenes where his expressions and body language make him physically look less attractive to me. LOL. Yet there are also moments (like the scene with Anne Marie after he is cruel to her) where I suddenly can't really tell if he does still care after all? There's still an odd undercurrent of self loathing in what he says. It's hard to say how much of this character is still Dean, and it raises interesting questions about what it means to have a twisted soul vs no soul at all. I'm loving the ambiguity.

I love this reading of Demon!Dean. Especially the idea that his soul is still guiding his perspective and behavior -- but now that he's a demon, his soul is twisted, so his perspective and behavior are twisted, too.

My assumption had been that a demon's perspective would be simpler and more predictable than a human being's, because a demon can just go full steam ahead on being an asshole, with no empathy or conscious to confuse him. But this reading actually makes me think that a demon might feel and (initially) react pretty much as his human self would, since he still has his soul, but that his perspective on everything would be horrifically distorted and tormented because of how that soul has been twisted by torture into something wretched.

I don't think that the show sticks with that interpretation of how demons think all the time. I mean, a lot of demons are just one-dimensional red shirt baddies. But I do think that interpretation makes more sense of Crowley's overall characterization, for one. Just an interesting way of looking at "how demons work."

And since my big disappointment with this storyline was the ultimate lack of explanation of how demons work, I will grasp at any straws that I can get about that particular subject!

On 10/11/2014 at 0:59 AM, SueB said:

And what does Crowley want from Dean in a 'professional' sense?  He wants Dean to be his loyal killer -- as you said, HIS Knight.  His enforcer. The dark version of "good little soldier".  Yeah. That'll go over well with Dean.  Not.  So I think that's why Dean went on a bender. He feels used...again.

In retrospect, I think that Crowley saw Dean as a big "get." I think getting him on Team Hell was sort of a status thing for Crowley. Also, I think that he genuinely thinks he and Dean make a good team. Which, in a way, they do. They have very different strengths and weaknesses, lol.

And in addition to all that, I think that Crowley genuinely likes Dean, and likes who he is around him. Won't beat the dead horse of how I think that Crowley sees Dean and Sam, though...well, at least not in this episode thread!

On 10/11/2014 at 0:29 PM, supposebly said:

What does Dean need Crowley for? How does Crowley keep him around?

I think that Demon!Dean needs some sort of anchor. He seems very aimless, like he's just trying to kill time until the world ends (and judging by the drinking and general ennui, he's apparently finding it a pretty hard slog!). Crowley gives him diversions, keeps him occupied, helps the time pass. For Dean, I don't think that it's so much about having a friend as having SOME kind of structure/focus.

[Myrelle]

I thought that JA's acting was amazing in the three DemonDean episodes. Everything I'd hoped for and dreamed of when his eyes went black in the s9 finale.  The above reading of the demonic soul is exactly what I saw also. Layering his characters has always been Jensen's strongest suit in his large acting arsenal and THIS! was something of what I'd been wanting to see for years. My only wish is that DemonDean had lasted a little longer, but this show has always been afraid to go there with Dean, IMO. Too bad. But at this point this JA fan will take what she can get from this show.

Maybe they'll let him play Michael some day.

[SueB]

11 hours ago, rue721 said:

In retrospect, I think that Crowley saw Dean as a big "get."

Dean Winchester, the little black dress of Supernatural.  Everyone wants one (and it goes with EVERYTHING).

Edited September 23, 2016 by SueB

[Mick Lady]

Just watched this episode this morning with Mick. As many times as we've seen it, for some reason we've always missed Crowley's line: "We were wondering if you hit another dog" Good Chuck, we were on the floor! I haven't laughed that hard in a long time!

[Katy M]

23 hours ago, Mick Lady said:

Just watched this episode this morning with Mick. As many times as we've seen it, for some reason we've always missed Crowley's line: "We were wondering if you hit another dog" Good Chuck, we were on the floor! I haven't laughed that hard in a long time!

I liked that line, too.  There are things I don't like about Crowley, but man, he has snark down perfectly.

[bettername2come]

It's always so weird when Jared gets hurt IRL and they have to write it into the script, since I'm used to their massive injuries healing in a week. Sigh. The wrist cast was a much better character than the sling. The wrist cast Dean doing "I'm Too Sexy" is not remotely Dean. Shirtless Dean! I want to see normal Dean playing Foosball. Dean's hair parted is just wrong. Only Jensen Ackles can look good in a surveillance video. I like the moment where Sam sees the demon eyes in the video. Gas Station guy's awesome. I swear some extra pumping gas looked at Sam when he told Crowley he'd kill him dead. "I will treasure our Flickr albums forever." I have missed that line in previous watches. That one's funny. Damn, Sammy. You should've learned more about cars to prevent this kind of thing. Damn, Dean calling a non-witch/demon a "skank" is really disturbing. And not caring for Sam. 

[Hanahope]

So I'm confused as to whether Dean is actually a demon or not.  I know at the end of S9, his eyes went black, like a demon's.  But I could have sworn the conversation between Dean and Crowley was that Dean has to sate the first blade regularly, or at least every few weeks or so, or he  "becomes a demon."  That Dean said, 'yeah, i figured that out 6 weeks ago."  So it seems more like Dean is "soulless" like Sam was.

At least this time, Sam is not just letting Dean go, whether its his soul or just his body.  Good for Sam.  I assumed there was some real-world explanation for the broken arm, which somehow they incorporated into the story.

I guess Dean took Baby, since Sam is driving some other piece of junk.

I also thought at the end of S9, Cas defeated Metatron simply by taking away his god-powers from the angel tablet, and thus turned Meta back into an "ordinary angel."  but how did the angels get back into heaven?  I thought that the spell was still unbreakable.  Or did it break when the tablet did?

Otherwise, angels, zzzzzz.  please drop this story line.

I assume that Dean must have killed some relative of Cole.

[Katy M]

1 hour ago, Hanahope said:

So I'm confused as to whether Dean is actually a demon or not.  I know at the end of S9, his eyes went black, like a demon's.  But I could have sworn the conversation between Dean and Crowley was that Dean has to sate the first blade regularly, or at least every few weeks or so, or he  "becomes a demon."  That Dean said, 'yeah, i figured that out 6 weeks ago."  So it seems more like Dean is "soulless" like Sam was.

Dean is definitely a demon.  If you noticed, his eyes went black when he said the bit about having figured that out.  It was an odd remark by Crowley, and you'll be best served if you just forget about it, IMO.

1 hour ago, Hanahope said:

I assumed there was some real-world explanation for the broken arm, which somehow they incorporated into the story.

He broke his arm wresting with Osric Chau (kevin).

1 hour ago, Hanahope said:

I also thought at the end of S9, Cas defeated Metatron simply by taking away his god-powers from the angel tablet, and thus turned Meta back into an "ordinary angel."  but how did the angels get back into heaven?  I thought that the spell was still unbreakable.  Or did it break when the tablet did?

Metatron actually let some/most of the angels back in the episode Stairway to Heaven.  So, I guess in order to do that, he had to show them where the door/elevator was located.  Then when they turned on him, they now control the gate.  They still have no wings

 

1 hour ago, Hanahope said:

Otherwise, angels, zzzzzz.  please drop this story line.

Yes, please.

[Hanahope]

8 minutes ago, Katy M said:

Metatron actually let some/most of the angels back in the episode Stairway to Heaven.  So, I guess in order to do that, he had to show them where the door/elevator was located.  Then when they turned on him, they now control the gate.  They still have no wings

Ah, yeah, I recall that story bit now.  I see how it went from there.  

9 minutes ago, Katy M said:

Dean is definitely a demon.  If you noticed, his eyes went black when he said the bit about having figured that out.  It was an odd remark by Crowley, and you'll be best served if you just forget about it, IMO.

Thanks for clearing that up.

[bettername2come]

6 hours ago, Katy M said:

8 hours ago, Hanahope said:

So I'm confused as to whether Dean is actually a demon or not.  I know at the end of S9, his eyes went black, like a demon's.  But I could have sworn the conversation between Dean and Crowley was that Dean has to sate the first blade regularly, or at least every few weeks or so, or he  "becomes a demon."  That Dean said, 'yeah, i figured that out 6 weeks ago."  So it seems more like Dean is "soulless" like Sam was.

Dean is definitely a demon.  If you noticed, his eyes went black when he said the bit about having figured that out.  It was an odd remark by Crowley, and you'll be best served if you just forget about it, IMO.

I assumed on re-watch that what Crowley meant was he would lose his human body when he said he'd "become a demon." He'd be incorporeal and have to possess people like most demons. 

[gonzosgirrl]

34 minutes ago, bettername2come said:

I assumed on re-watch that what Crowley meant was he would lose his human body when he said he'd "become a demon." He'd be incorporeal and have to possess people like most demons. 

I don't think so - Cain didn't lose his human form. Personally, I thought it just meant he'd lose control of whatever kept him from just killing indiscriminately to satisfy the Mark.

CROWLEY

If it wasn't for me throwing demon chum your way, what do you think would've happened? The mark needs to be sated. Otherwise --

DEAN

otherwise, I turn into a demon. Yeah, yeah. I sort of got that six weeks ago.

It was Dean who said it - which makes me think he was consciously deciding not to kill just for the sport of it, and it was Crowley feeding him demons that allowed him that measure of self-control.

[Iju]

dean was so damn cold what he told her in the bedroom. i almost got chills. that's what really convinced me he went full demon. crowley could kill sam and dean with both of his hands and unfortunately i would never hate him. not completely, anyway. it's the evil in me that adores him always i guess.

i have a conflicting opinion on hannah. on one hand she's 100% annoying and should leave the harmless angels alone, but on the other hand she has my real name, so i get this weird fluttery feeling every time cass calls her. so i'll just call her amy for now .-.

dean promising to kill hawkeye (yes i know i'm wrong) kinda confused me though, why would he care if sam died?'

p.s, his hair is so fluffy, lol. kinda takes away his "baddie" aura, but just a little bit.

Edited September 21, 2018 by Iju

[DeeDee79]

On ‎9‎/‎21‎/‎2018 at 5:51 PM, Iju said:

p.s, his hair is so fluffy, lol. kinda takes away his "baddie" aura, but just a little bit.

I loved demon Dean's hair :)

[The Companion]

 

 

On 5/28/2015 at 12:35 AM, catrox14 said:

 

You're welcome.

 

Oh Dean was 100% commando and dear GODS....that will not be taken away from me. NO NO NO

Definitely. Also, Crowley is so uncomfortable because Dean didn't have to make any demon deals, if you know what I mean.

I liked this. It wasn't as tight as some season premieres, but I thought it set up some interesting storylines. I assume Demon Dean will get darker, without being irredeemable (though fuck that skank comment). It is an interesting conflict. It puts a wedge between brothers without secrets, lies and betrayal. I am interested in where it goes. I like Sam's frantic search. 

FWIW, I don't personally see this as inconsistent with his assertion that he wouldn't have done what Dean did. Dean wouldn't want to be a demon or a demon meatsuit, so Sam is honoring what he knows Dean would want. 

The angel story brings this episode to a screeching halt, and I think the problem is that Castiel is still angelly enough not to make it interesting to see him with angels. It is just too far away from the main storyline. 

I was sad to see him on that rickety bed. He should be in the bunker!

[gonzosgirrl]

33 minutes ago, The Companion said:

FWIW, I don't personally see this as inconsistent with his assertion that he wouldn't have done what Dean did. Dean wouldn't want to be a demon or a demon meatsuit, so Sam is honoring what he knows Dean would want. 

If we're going there, then strictly speaking, Dean also honored what Sam wanted, since Sam both told him he 'saw the light at the end of the tunnel' and, he chose to stop the trials and live (despite blaming Dean for that decision later). 🙂

Total agreement with the rogue angel side of things bringing the story down.

Actual spoiler

Spoiler

And given how short Demon Dean's time turns out to be, it's even more egregious to waste it on Castiel and Hannah.

 

And FWIW, I absolutely agree that Dean would not want to be a demon. I am 100% glad that Sam wants to cure Dean, and that's how it should be. I only have a problem with the hypocrisy of it.

Edited January 13, 2020 by gonzosgirrl