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Carrie Ann

Sansa Stark: A Direwolf In Sheep's Clothing?

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I love watching Sansa learn, and adapt, and survive. I also like that her Stark/Tully strength comes out more like her mother's does: she uses courtesy to keep her head and her place, hides her feelings, and works for her own ends in the back channels.

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After the first episode of Season 2, I thought Sansa might be wising-up and going the I, Claudius route.  But I did a major face palm in Season 3 when she asked Shae if her family could attend her wedding.

But with parents like Ned & Catelyn, it's not really Sansa's fault.  Either Nature or nuture was going to get her, though I tend to favor nuture.  My theory is that the older Stark children, Robb & Sansa, received more attention from their parents than the younger children, Arya and Bran, which is why the older children seem so much more obtuse than the younger ones (Rickon is too early to tell, and while Jon Snow may know nothing, he no doubt profited from being snubbed by Catelyn).

Sansa is a slow learner, but perhaps she'll be the proverbial tortoise that beats the hare.

Edited by Constantinople
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Yeah, I can totally understand why some fans just can't get interested in Sansa, but I really love her. She was the perfect little lady until she got to Kings Landing, and it has been her undoing. She grew up around good people, and was kept from a lot of hard truths, so she was unskilled in the arts of deception and war. The fact that she was so sheltered means that it took her quite a bit of time to come around to realizing that what happened with Joffrey and her father wasn't some blip. The world is just pretty hostile and out to get her, basically. Now she has to figure out how to adjust herself to that new viewpoint. I look forward to seeing more of her growth.

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Sansa is my favorite. I love that she shows a different kind of strong woman. Not all strong women use swords, some use their wits. I just love her.

This.  Arya gets all the love, but I think Sansa is a lot more complex and a hell of a lot stronger than people give her credit for.  Rock on, Little Bird.

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After the first episode of Season 2, I thought Sansa might be wising-up and going the I, Claudius route.  But I did a major face palm in Season 3 when she asked Shae if her family could attend her wedding.

Yeah, that was definitely not the best moment for her.  Like, she's seriously one of my top five favorite characters, but I just had to shake my head at that.

Outside of that, though, I think she's definitely learned a lot over the past couple seasons, but at least part of what she's learned is that she can't let on how much she's learning.  There's a certain value in being underestimated, and I think Sansa's shown that she knows how to take advantage of that.  So, instead of trying to correct people or prove them wrong when they say she's stupid, she uses it against them.

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Outside of that, though, I think she's definitely learned a lot over the past couple seasons, but at least part of what she's learned is that she can't let on how much she's learning.  There's a certain value in being underestimated, and I think Sansa's shown that she knows how to take advantage of that.  So, instead of trying to correct people or prove them wrong when they say she's stupid, she uses it against them.

I agree, which is why I mentioned I, Claudius.

Sansa did have her moments in Season 3.

When Littlefinger asked why he should trust her, she said he could trust her because she's a terrible liar, and Littlefinger had said it himself.  She kept her mouth shut about her prospective marriage to Loras, which was more than Loras could manage (Thanks Loras!).

I want to think that when she was making-up stories about the ships she was watching it was her way of acknowledging, consciously or not, that she needed to up her game.

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I think I can relate to Sansa's naivete because every time something good happens on this show, I get fooled into thinking things might actually be okay. Only then to have my soul crushed. For instance: I was so happy when they announced Sansa would marry Loras. I know the match had its pitfalls, but I knew how happy Sansa would be. Oh how great!!! DUH, how could I not see coming that this marriage would never happen :/. So I guess I am just as naive as her cause for a minute there I thought she actually might escape.


 

I want to think that when she was making-up stories about the ships she was watching it was her way of acknowledging, consciously or not, that she needed to up her game.

I think the key to that scene was her remark that the truth is always "either terrible or boring." Contrasting her previous view of life at court with what she knows to be the reality - it is at worst dull and not fantastic like she thought, and at worst can be horrible. Making up stories about the boats was a distraction but she seemed to acknowledge that she knew the reality of things now.

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I have found Sansa to be an incredibly frustrating character in the books, but like her much better on the show. Part of that may be that the actress is very striking and part is that because the story is compressed for time, some of the less interesting/more annoying stuff that seemed to go on forever in the books got cut.

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I guess she's no longer the Wolf in the Lion's Den, but the Wolf in the Eagle's Nest, or, as the Lannisters probably now refer to her, "The Wicked Witch of The North".

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But with parents like Ned & Catelyn, it's not really Sansa's fault.  Either Nature or nuture was going to get her, though I tend to favor nuture.  My theory is that the older Stark children, Robb & Sansa, received more attention from their parents than the younger children, Arya and Bran, which is why the older children seem so much more obtuse than the younger ones (Rickon is too early to tell, and while Jon Snow may know nothing, he no doubt profited from being snubbed by Catelyn).

Sansa is a slow learner, but perhaps she'll be the proverbial tortoise that beats the hare.

Isn't this theory kinda unsupported by the material? The youngest Starklings inevitably had less time with their parents because of unfortunate circumstances. But Arya was seen as closer to Ned than any of them, while Ned was teaching Bran in the pilot the same way he taught Robb and Jon, his lessons were just interrupted by Robert. And I think we saw enough of Bran and Cat in the pilot and 1.02 to indicate he was also mama's special boy, not just Robb. Then Robb does tell her not to stay with Bran 24/7 because Rickon hangs on his leg all day wanting Mummy and Daddy back, implying Rickon is used to parental attention. And I think Jon Snow is just getting hard lessons through experience as well. C'mon is s2 Jon who got the rest of his party killed by refusing to execute Ygritte really any better than s2 Robb? Or even s3 Jon who risked his own life (meaning the NW's survival as well) on the basis of Stark principles with no clue his brothers' direwolves were there to back him up and help him escape?

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I feel bad for this character. She just gets away from one crappy person/situation only to be moved to a different (but still crappy) person/situation.

 

Now she's stuck in the Eyrie with the creeper who wants her. This is bad. But, she is married. This is...good? Will that protect her?

 

Assuming Littlefinger set all this in motion in the hopes that Tyrion would be blamed for Joffrey's murder (thus killing two birds with one stone), I can see how he thinks he just needs to wait out the trial/execution so that Sansa will be widowed and thus available to marry.

 

However, I'm going to assume that Tyrion WON'T be executed, so I wonder whether Littlefinger will try to marry/fuck her even though she's already married? Or will he make another attempt to get Tyrion out of the picture?

 

I'm just hoping like mad that Brienne swoops in to the rescue before Littlefinger gets his grubby hands on Sansa.

 

At this point, I'm rooting for her to meet up with a freshly exonerated Tyrion and they run away together. :)

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tumblr_n5t7vb9BSP1s7w90wo1_500.png

Lady's gone but Sansa at least needs a cat of her own to guard her virtue, as Ser Pounce does the king's.

 

I've still liked their scenes together better than anything she did in s3.

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So...has Sansa officially gone to the dark side?

 

It definitely makes her character more interesting.  After everything she's gone through, I guess it's understandable: she thinks her whole family is dead and has figured that if she wants to save herself she needs to start playing the game of thrones.  But I feel like she's always kind of had this in her.  Let's not forget how she blamed Lady's death on Arya and Ned -- not to mention how she lied about Mycah attacking Joffrey when she knew that wasn't what happened.  Or how she blabbed to Cersei about Ned's plan to take them away from King's Landing.  Granted, those actions were more about selfish, willful stupidity than outright evil.  And God knows she probably beat herself up about it afterwards.  Still...

Edited by Spartan Girl

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So...has Sansa officially gone to the dark side?

 

It definitely makes her character more interesting.  After everything she's gone through, I guess it's understandable: she thinks her whole family is dead and has figured that if she wants to save herself she needs to start playing the game of thrones.  But I feel like she's always kind of had this in her.  Let's not forget how she blamed Lady's death on Arya and Ned -- not to mention how she lied about Mycah attacking Joffrey when she knew that wasn't what happened.  Or how she blabbed to Cersei about Ned's plan to take them away from King's Landing.  Granted, those actions were more about selfish, willful stupidity than outright evil.  And God knows she probably beat herself up about it afterwards.  Still...

 

Because she changed her clothes and lied once to save her own skin?

 

I don't think she's even remotely evil yet, but she is dipping her toe into the grey.

 

I do see a Moral Event Horizon coming for Sansa though. At some point (probably next season) she'll have the opportunity to make a choice that either firmly places her in the evil camp, or starts her on a redemption path.

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So...has Sansa officially gone to the dark side?

.

 

I really hope not. We don't need any more villains IMO.

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Let's not forget how she blamed Lady's death on Arya and Ned

Ned could have stuck up more for Lady than saying she deserves better than to be killed by Ilyn Payne. If my dad killed a pet of mine who did nothing wrong, with nary a word of protest, I'd be angry at him too.

 

not to mention how she lied about Mycah attacking Joffrey when she knew that wasn't what happened.

She never said Micah attacked Joffrey. She she she didn't remember what happened. That was a lie, but, as others have noted, in court speak that was as good as calling Joffrey a liar.

 

Or how she blabbed to Cersei about Ned's plan to take them away from King's Landing.

Sansa never did this in the TV show.

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Oops, I'm sorry, I must be mixing up Book Sansa with Show Sansa.

 In the book, when Arya confronted her about the Hound killing Mycah, Sansa replied that Mycah attacked Joffrey and he deserved what he got...but apparently that scene wasn't in the TV show.

 

 

Because she changed her clothes and lied once to save her own skin?

 

No, because that evil look she exchanged with Littlefinger implies that she's apparently plotting with Littlefinger to kill Robin.  Or at least that's what it looked like to me.  But I guess we won't know for sure until the end of the season.

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No, because that evil look she exchanged with Littlefinger implies that she's apparently plotting with Littlefinger to kill Robin.  Or at least that's what it looked like to me.  But I guess we won't know for sure until the end of the season.

 

Whoa. You jumped there quick.

 

I don't think there's any reason to believe that yet. Maybe they are plotting to use the boy to gain power. Littlefinger did talk about supporting Robin over the Lannisters, that implies that he means to see Robin on the Iron Throne.

 

Remember that there's no Harry the Heir yet in the show. Littlefinger has no reason to kill Robin... yet. This was the Moral Event Horizon I was talking about though. If Sansa helps or even allows Littlefinger to kill Robin she will probably be irredeemably evil

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Hopefully, what we saw from Sansa is a girl who is sick and tired of being a victim and who knows enough about court intrigue (from 3+ years of observation) to gain at least of a little power base for herself. I don't believe she's gone over to the dark side (she has too much Stark in her for that), but she's definitely given up on the fairy tale she clung to for so long.

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I was wondering if Sansa dyed her hair black to look more like a Stark and less like a Tully or, to be more accurate, less like Aunt Lysa.  (Lysa's hair was red.) 

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I love the contrast between the S2 finale and what might have been Sansa's final appearance in S4: in S2 Littlefinger tells her she's the worst liar in King's Landing, in S4 he looks proud in a creepy sort of way that she's become such a good actress.

 

This was the Moral Event Horizon I was talking about though. If Sansa helps or even allows Littlefinger to kill Robin she will probably be irredeemably evil

 

Speculation:

I don't think Sansa will actively play a part in Robin's possible death. if it happens, well, Jaime's popularity recovered from crippling a little boy (which he hasn't bothered to feel remorse for in his POV) and wasn't dented when he later threatened to have a newborn killed (IIRC, after he thought about how the Freys were fools to make threats to Edmure they didn't intend to carry through). My own hope is that Sansa will demonstrate that becoming morally bankrupt is not an absolute necessity in the game, but if she does go dark she should get as much of a pass for her crimes from the fandom as Jaime, Tyrion, Littlefinger, Tywin, the list goes on for characters who've murdered with a clever quip or in the name of being hard men who destroy all that stands in their way.

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Littlefinger and Sansa's power in the Vale derives from Robin being the Lord of the Vale.  If Robin is killed, someone else becomes Lord of the Vale, and Littlefinger and Sansa become just a pair of hangers on because that someone else won't have any particular reason to keep them in their present position.

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It certainly seems that the prudent thing to do is try to work with Robin and see if a psychopath tries to emerge before spiking his milk. Away from his mom, coached by the council members, LF and Sansa 2.0, he could be relatively normal and avoid any fighting for top bird of the Vale.

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No, because that evil look she exchanged with Littlefinger implies that she's apparently plotting with Littlefinger to kill Robin.  Or at least that's what it looked like to me.  But I guess we won't know for sure until the end of the season.

There is literally nothing on the show to indicate even Littlefinger wants Robin dead. And things that haven't happened on the show probably aren't important in predicting the show plot.

 

I was wondering if Sansa dyed her hair black to look more like a Stark and less like a Tully or, to be more accurate, less like Aunt Lysa.  (Lysa's hair was red.) 

More like Jon Snow and missing Uncle Ben, you mean? The rest of the Starks were brunette/chestnut (Ned, Arya, and Bran), Tully reddish-brown (Robb), or blondish (Rickon), and when any of them appeared darker haired, it really was the lighting. (Or rather, the digital coloring, GoT is really into the teal/orange filtering and the Northern scenes suffer from the dimly-lit bluish tint.)  I think a reason to dye her hair is obvious, as Littlefinger noted when they arrived in the Vale, red is a distinctive and memorable hair color. Brienne is looking for a red-headed Sansa Stark, as would anyone sent by the more evil Lannisters. Ned Stark's elder daughter is a known Tully redhead, a lady with black hair claiming to be Ned Stark's elder daughter should be questioned since anyone who knew the Starks knows none of Ned's legit kids had black hair. Therefore, I doubt she wants her true identity to go any farther than the people she just told as she goes outside of the Eyrie, at least for the time being.

Edited by Lady S.

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No, because that evil look she exchanged with Littlefinger implies that she's apparently plotting with Littlefinger to kill Robin.  Or at least that's what it looked like to me.

 

I think she's trying to 'handle' Littlefinger. She knows he wants her and I suspect she thinks that if she plays along (to a degree), she might have a hope of having some degree of control...

 

 

Brienne is looking for a red-headed Sansa Stark, as would anyone sent by the more evil Lannisters.

 

But Podrick knows what Sansa looks like, right? So he could point her out to Brienne?

Edited by NoWillToResist

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Well, yes, if they ever find her to look at her.  But if Sansa's no longer in the Eyrie, that leaves the whole Vale to search, and so far, they're asking people about seeing a pretty red-haired girl. The knights on the gate could tell about seeing such a girl arrive with Lord Baelish, but if for any reason they don't, how is Brienne to find her without knowing to look for Littlefinger? But anyway, the point is, Sansa has reason to believe only bad people are looking for her, or more precisely, bad people would be looking for a pretty redhead, so she has good reason to disguise herself when leaving the impregnable fortress of the Eyrie. The only real question is why Littlefinger didn't bring some crushed beetles or whatever to color her hair back on the boat, because pulling up her hood after the knights already saw her hair kinda defeated the purpose. But I think it was meant as a symbolic transition so her hair had to be dyed later, and maybe those knights will pass on what they know of "Alayne".

 

Something pointed out on tumblr:

 

8th ep of s3

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8th ep of s4

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During her confession to the Vale nobility, we can even see her still wearing a tacky Lannister gold ring.

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By the end of the she's sporting a new ring, on a different finger. But I don't mean to imply anything too ominous here. Her marriage to Tyrion was unconsummated and she certainly never thought of herself as a Lannister. Now she's just got a new role to play, but the music playing in the background is a version of the Winterfell theme, a version of which was also playing in the snow castle scene, before Robin and Uncle Creepy came along.

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If Sansa saw Brienne and Podrick approaching, I don't think she would assume they were there to help her.  I think she'd hide.  Despite them not appearing threatening, both B and P were last associated with Jaime and Tyrion (if Sansa remembers them from King's Landing).   

In fact, are Brienne and Pod in a bit of danger?  (taking that question to the spec thread).

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Brienne is looking for a red-headed Sansa Stark, as would anyone sent by the more evil Lannisters.

But Podrick knows what Sansa looks like, right? So he could point her out to Brienne?

Brienne has actually seen Sansa herself on the show.

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If Sansa saw Brienne and Podrick approaching, I don't think she would assume they were there to help her.  I think she'd hide.  Despite them not appearing threatening, both B and P were last associated with Jaime and Tyrion (if Sansa remembers them from King's Landing).   

In fact, are Brienne and Pod in a bit of danger?  (taking that question to the spec thread).

Also Brienne is carrying Oathkeeper, and I don't think she's replaced that gaudy Lion headed handle. In a world where everyone is paying attention to sigils, it's not the smartest move for her.

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Yeah, Brienne has no proof of her affiliation with Catelyn but all too much of her affiliation with the Lannisters. Podrick would probably seem more trustworthy on his own since I think Sansa trusts Tyrion more than the Kingslayer, (even in her most annoying Lannister-trusting phase in the books

she never liked her prince's "wicked uncle" any more than her parents did

), but even then she'd not be likely to take him at his word since she knows Tyrion was arrested and has no power to help her, and even when he tried to before he didn't have enough power since Tywin was the one really in charge. (You have to wonder how long Tywin would put up with Tyrion's refusal to consummate the marriage before finding a more obedient Lannister to do it for him, because I doubt Tyrion would be allowed to continue to wait on Sansa.)

Edited by Lady S.

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I've been a fan of Sansa's for most of the show's run, even when she's been silly or shallow. I think there's such a huge emphasis on the value of "bad-ass" moments in entertainment, especially for female characters, that they come to define opinion. It was Sansa who had to watch her father being executed, even as Arya's eyes were covered. It was Sansa who was beaten and assaulted for the "crimes" of her father and brother at the same time as a man was giving his life to help prevent the same from happening to Arya.

 

There's this idea that Sansa has done nothing but stroll the gardens of King's Landing until this season, while Arya has been suffering and fighting back, but I think the reality is far more complex. 

 

The sad thing is that while a lot of Sansa fans are unhappy with some of the changes from the books, I think if the show had had some of that (like The Hound's infatuation with her [which was mostly hinted on the show] or her telling Cersei that Ned was planning to flee the city), she would have been so hated they could have done nothing with her. I can already hear people saying why is she such a bitch to poor Sandor, and so on.

 

I understand how important it is for Sansa's character to finally have her doing something, anything, beyond reacting, but I'm sorry that some of Sophie Turner's work in reacting and playing up Sansa's loss and stillness has not been noticed. I thought her work throughout The Lion and the Rose, where she mostly just had to keep calm as she was being humiliated in the crassest ways, was superb. Some of her best work thus far. I love when we get to see Sophie act through facial expressions and eyes.

 

 

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I think Sophie nailed the 'emotionless mask' throughout Joffrey and Margaery's wedding. All the comments and that awful pantomine were so hurtful, yet she remained stoic. You could tell from her eyes that it was half killing her, but she did not react.

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I think Sophie nailed the 'emotionless mask' throughout Joffrey and Margaery's wedding. All the comments and that awful pantomine were so hurtful, yet she remained stoic. You could tell from her eyes that it was half killing her, but she did not react.

The other cast helped in this by themselves giving lots of uncomfortable reaction shots to Joffrey's utter dickishness; that helped to emphasize her stoicism throughout.  I recently realized while watching Castle that we rely a lot on other characters to give us cues about how we are supposed to feel about ambiguous interactions between characters - if they're smirking knowingly, I'm more likely to read it as flirting, for example.   By helping to convey how absolutely terrible that whole situation was, the other cast set an implicit bar of "it's really difficult to maintain your composure right now" that Sophie sails over by presenting Sansa as so composed.

Edited by Zalyn

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Checking into to reiterate how much I love the Sansa character and I think her character's journey is one of the most exciting and interesting in the whole series.    When this saga started and Sansa was just a spoiled, shallow, heiress, I never would have dreamed she'd be where she is at this point in the narrative.   Helping to cover up murders,  living as a fugitive from the Iron Throne.   Married to Tyrion Lannister.

 

I thought her recent waid into the game of intrigue was superb and she did a good job of playing to her strengths.    Her rapport with Littlefinger is shaping up to be one of the more interesting dynamics on the show.    Littlefinger is one of the coldest characters on the canvas and Sansa (when she's not putting on a show) is so chilly, I'm surprised candles stay alight when she and Littlefinger are in the same room.    "If they had executed you, what would they have done with me", "I don't know". "Neither do I."   It was perfect.

 

She is getting an education in scheming from one of the top 3 in the show and I think in the long run it could very much pay off.   Margaery Tyrell is very cunning and Olenna has definitely been grooming her but when it comes to blood shed, Margaery seems to quail.   She was horrified at Joffrey's poisoning and she had to look away at Tyrion's humiliation at the trial.   I think Sansa could wind up being a little more steely than Margaery when all is said and done.    Though it's clear, the v neck in Sansa's dress was inspired by the time she spent with Margaery.

 

I also LOVE that Sansa's sewing has actually  paid off as seen when she wore that black dress in "The Mountain and The Viper", she is know Donna Karen, but it was good symbolism that she's going to start being much more proactive in term of what happens to her.

 

Such an intersting character with such interesting dynamics, Sansa/Joffrey, Sansa/Cersei, Sansa/Tyrion, Sansa/Littlefinger, Sansa/Shae, Sansa/Margaery/Olenna, Sansa/Robyn Arryn potentially.   Definitely my favorite Stark.

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Checking into to reiterate how much I love the Sansa character and I think her character's journey is one of the most exciting and interesting in the whole series.    When this saga started and Sansa was just a spoiled, shallow, heiress, I never would have dreamed she'd be where she is at this point in the narrative.

Bratty s1 Sansa was no heiress, she had 3 legit brothers. She's only considered one now because Bran and Rickon are falsely presumed dead. If either or even both of them come back into the Northern story, Sansa's "claim" means zilch and I don't see her minding her little brother getting the title instead. Apologies for nitpicking.

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Wish we had gotten to check in on Sansa in the finale but overall I'm ok with where they left Sansa this season.   I think her story has progressed well from Season to Season.     And can't wait to catch up with what she and rat fink Littlefinger are plotting in the Vale.

 

And i have to tip my hat to Sansa, sometimes keeping your head down is the smart thing to do though not always easy.    Joffrey, Tywin, Ned, Catelyn, Robb were all much more aggressive in their maneuvers through the political land scape and look at where they are now.

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I was curious about how my queen has stacked up through the series in terms of dialogue, so here's the # of words she spoke in selected episodes, compared to the # of words she spoke in the equivalent chapters:

Mountain and the Viper 425 (inc 387-word scene)/(297 and/or 345), Blackwater 275/363=76%, First of His Name 223 (inc 151-word scene)/158= 141%, Mockingbird 202 (inc 123-word scene)/312=65%,
Dark Wings Dark Words 190 (inc 121-word scene)/458 =41%, A Man without Honor 107/232=46%, Second Sons 70/226=31%, Fire and Blood 45/245=18%, Baelor 20ish/0, Lion and the Rose 10ish/324=3%

 

I'm amazed that given how much screentime she had in Blackwater, Mountain and the Viper dwarfs it in Sansa dialogue on account of how much of her scenes in Blackwater were her reacting (esp to Cersei). Overall, Sansa's escape from King's Landing seems to have been quite helpful in increasing her dialogue as she doesn't have to hold herself back from saying anything that could possibly offend, as she doesn't so much have a looming threat of beatings, rape, and so on from her wardens the Lannisters.

Edited by jjjmoss

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Popping back in to say I think my main regret with regards to Season 4 is that we never got to see Sansa interact with Oberyn Martell and Ellaria Sand.    I think House Martell is the only Great House Sansa hasn't been linked to through hook or by crook.

 

She's been very entwined with House Lannister through her marriage to Tyrion, former betrothal to Joffrey and than mortal enemy, not to mention her dynamic with Cersei (who want's her dead). 

 

House Tyrell through her betrothal to Loras Tyrell and her intrigues with Margaery (they did manage to keep the informal betrothal a secret from the Lannisters for a while).

 

House Arynn - She was heavily though indirectly involved in the murder of Lysa Arryn.   And now seems to be forming a sibling (slightly combative) relationship with Lord Robert Arryn.

 

I don't mind her not having much onscreen interaction with The Baratheons and Greyjoys, but I would have liked to see her reaction to Oberyn Martell's forward flirtatiousness.  

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I think since Sansa is supposed to be so young (even though Sophie looks like an adult) Oberyn wouldn't even flirt with her. He'd probably be charming though and since he was so charesmatic Sansa would most likely be a fan.
It could have been good for her character development to interact with some neutral characters though. In the book we get to see her a few times make small talk with different people showing how good she is at it.

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I don't mind her not having much onscreen interaction with The Baratheons and Greyjoys, but I would have liked to see her reaction to Oberyn Martell's forward flirtatiousness.

But she did meet Robert and Renly, and obviously grew up with Theon. I'd never realized that technically she did have connections to 7 of the Great Houses. Huh. That would have been neat to have Oberyn quickly run into Tyrion with Sansa at the wedding then.

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Doing a Season 4 Rewatch and one thing I've noticed in reference to Sansa is her lack of genuine connection to anyone since this story began.   Jon Snow had Ygritte and Samwell Tarly, Grenn and Pyp.   Arya has Hot Pie, Gendry, Sirio Firell???, Jacquen H'Gar.  Bran and Rickon have Osha, Jojen and Meera.   All of which have/were genuine emotional connections.  I question whether Sansa has had the same.  

 

For a while I thought Shae was a genuine friend but Shae testified against her at the regency trial and Sansa fled Kings Landing at the first opportunity with know thought to Shae (that we could see) and she seemed very genuine when she told The Lords of the Vale that she had no friends in Kings Landing.   She's already decided not to become attached to the Lords of The Vale despite their history with her father, so I question whether she is capable of making GENUINE connections with anyone in the future.  

 

For LF everyone is a tool and I'm thinking Sansa is coming around to that school of thought (not on HIS scale of course but the way her story unfolds during the latter half of the season definitely demonstrates this IMO).  Very interesing to see what's ahead for her.

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For a while I thought Shae was a genuine friend but Shae testified against her at the regency trial and Sansa fled Kings Landing at the first opportunity with know thought to Shae (that we could see) and she seemed very genuine when she told The Lords of the Vale that she had no friends in Kings Landing.   She's already decided not to become attached to the Lords of The Vale despite their history with her father, so I question whether she is capable of making GENUINE connections with anyone in the future.  

 

For LF everyone is a tool and I'm thinking Sansa is coming around to that school of thought (not on HIS scale of course but the way her story unfolds during the latter half of the season definitely demonstrates this IMO).  Very interesing to see what's ahead for her.

 

She started to form a connection with Tyrion on the show, and if the Red Wedding hadn't happened, I think even Book!Sansa would have eventually made some sort of connection with him, simply because they were both outsiders thrown together. But the Red Wedding did happen, and so I think we've been watching how a girl learned to treat everyone as a tool. Neither Stark sister has been allowed to trust or value other people since Ned died. For Arya, it's a simple fact that even the biggest and toughest protector is going to get killed sooner or later. They're all going to die, so you might as well just have fun killing the ones you don't like. For Sansa, a very similar journey is happening.

 

I see Sansa as an actual Master of Whispers in training. She is becoming the woman Cersei wishes she were. Sansa might ultimately be worse than Littlefinger or Cersei someday. Littlefinger suffered over a love he could not attain--Catelyn Stark never abused him. She just ran off with the guy who beat Littlefinger in the duel. She was an unattainable but good person. But Sansa's love was Joffrey. So love itself is suspect in her eyes. It's a trap.

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One thing that I really like about Sansa in the book is that she's one of the few characters that has progressed in a positive direction. Even after all that she's been through she still is able to feel compassion for others but she's also learned a lot.
I wouldn't like if Sansa in book or show ends up a ruthless revenge driven person. Consumed by gaining power and punishing those who's done her wrong.
Not that she can't be ruthless or pragmatic if she needs to. But if she turns into LF 2.0 why would we even care what happens to her?
By the way not saying anyone here suggesting that she will. Just making expressing general hope that she doesn't go to dark.

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I hope she doesn't go dark, too. Someone has to stay reasonably good besides just Samwell Tarly and Jon Snow. Every time I'm told "oh, it's gonna be so great this one character [who I liked in the first place for being more decent than the others] is gonna go a little darker, more gray. More dark gray," I'm sad. There's a whole world of miserable people in GRRM's world. ALL of the characters are quite gray enough, IMO.

 

There is not one completely goody-two-shoes character in the entire saga. Stannis is kind of nice until you remember that he murdered his brother and habitually burns people alive. Tyrion was wonderful until he killed Shae, even though there are a few reasons for it Everyone has their dark secret, their guilt over something. Everyone has done something kind of awful in order to survive or get what they want, at least once. If they all start to make a habit of it, it's going to be very depressing. Sometimes I worry that I'm watching the origin story of various supervillains, being turned at least not particularly good, then scattered across the earth, starting with Danaerys, who aided in the rape and enslavement of the Lamb people, burned their priestess alive, and then freed the Lamb people. We root for her, but she's killed quite a few people and created unforeseen circumstances for a lot of cities now.

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I was wondering if Sansa dyed her hair black to look more like a Stark and less like a Tully or, to be more accurate, less like Aunt Lysa.  (Lysa's hair was red.) 

 

She dyed it black because Littlefinger pointed out that her hair was a distinctive color that would draw attention, and that people who are hunting for her are looking for a redhead. Black is unambiguously NOT red. That's all she was going for. She didn't do it to look like anyone. She did it to not look like Sansa Stark, and to show Littlefinger how smart she is.

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She started to form a connection with Tyrion on the show, and if the Red Wedding hadn't happened, I think even Book!Sansa would have eventually made some sort of connection with him, simply because they were both outsiders thrown together.

I don't think so.  Sansa was quite firm that she was never going to trust him, and their interests were ultimately not the same.

Doing a Season 4 Rewatch and one thing I've noticed in reference to Sansa is her lack of genuine connection to anyone since this story began.   Jon Snow had Ygritte and Samwell Tarly, Grenn and Pyp.   Arya has Hot Pie, Gendry, Sirio Firell???, Jacquen H'Gar.  Bran and Rickon have Osha, Jojen and Meera.   All of which have/were genuine emotional connections.  I question whether Sansa has had the same.  

 

For a while I thought Shae was a genuine friend but Shae testified against her at the regency trial and Sansa fled Kings Landing at the first opportunity with know thought to Shae (that we could see) and she seemed very genuine when she told The Lords of the Vale that she had no friends in Kings Landing.   She's already decided not to become attached to the Lords of The Vale despite their history with her father, so I question whether she is capable of making GENUINE connections with anyone in the future.  

 

For LF everyone is a tool and I'm thinking Sansa is coming around to that school of thought (not on HIS scale of course but the way her story unfolds during the latter half of the season definitely demonstrates this IMO).  Very interesing to see what's ahead for her.

Sansa hasn't had such a connection.  Her story is different than her siblings in that she is surrounded by enemies at all times and isn't allowed to form friendships.

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But I think their interests WERE the same. Tyrion wanted to get Sansa out of King's Landing. Littlefinger beat him to it, and he also beat him to killing Joffrey, which I think Tyrion might eventually have gotten around to himself, if the threats to himself and to Sansa continued. Now both Tyrion and Sansa have an interest in staying away from Westeros, and in toppling the current powers.

 

Sansa wants revenge for the Red Wedding. Well lo and behold, look who killed Tywin Lannister. Sansa's husband, exactly as he'd have been expected to do for her, were he not a Lannister. I'd say their interests were and still are very much the same. She could have had even more fun plotting with Tyrion, who had a heart like hers, if the Red Wedding hadn't happened.

 

None of the Starks are allowed to form friendships, really. It seems to backfire on every single one of them, including Ned (Robert) and Cat (Littlefinger). Robb thought he had a friend in Theon Greyjoy. See what I mean?

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