S05.E04: Cuanto

[Tara Ariano]

Luciano encounters an old foe in Chicago, while Nucky and Margaret find common ground in Atlantic City when they face the same dilemma. Meanwhile, Sally conducts business in Cuba as rumors swirl of a public uprising; and in 1884, a young Nucky continues to impress the Commodore, and gives Eli a glimpse of what the future may hold.

[MrsRafaelBarba]

Anyone else notice, how fat guys don't fare well in the BE universe?

Farewell Sally...

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

I found myself liking the Margaret character in this episode. That hasn't happened since season two.

[MrsRafaelBarba]

Margaret and Nicky still care for each other.

Kelly looked lovely tonight.

Correction, Nicky.

Nicky!

Nucky

[Irlandesa]

I found myself liking the Margaret character in this episode. That hasn't happened since season two.

It was a mistake separating Nucky and Margaret when they did. I understand Kelly McDonald's pregnancy may have factored into how much she could be seen last season but I always thought they had great scenes and they were terrific fun to watch tonight. 

Edited September 29, 2014 by Irlandesa

[alynch]

It was kind of sad that when Lucky name-dropped Jimmy, Capone appeared to legitimately have no idea who he was talking about.

 

This will probably be one of the favorite episodes in the show's entire run. There was not a single false moment. And I loved those flashback scenes with the sheriff. Showing just some basic human kindness made for a great contrast with all the present day scenes.

 

Van Alden, as always, is hilarious. It seems unlikely that he'll make it out alive, but one can hope.

[AimingforYoko]

Ah Sally, thinkin' that honey-tanged voice of yours could talk your way out of anything. Not everybody's looking for their cut.

Just when you think Van Alden can't surprise you, he pulls that speech out of his ass.

[Avaleigh]

Knowing what the episode title was I immediately got the chills when Sally said "Cuanto?" Nucky is going to be devastated. 

 

My favorite scene was the one with Margaret and Kennedy. Loved the look of surprise on Joe's face when he realizes that she and Nucky are married. I also appreciated that it seemed like she was going to object if Nucky's plan had been to kill Carolyn Rothstein. 

 

I liked having a chance to have Luciano and Capone in a scene together again because it really reminded me how much more mature and calm Luciano is in comparison to Al. Al hasn't really grown up much since the first season. Yeah, he's a boss and not a driver anymore but he's also basically just a juvenile teenager with rage issues. Luciano sees the bigger picture and doesn't seem like he needs the entourage atmosphere that Capone seems to crave. They've both been through a lot throughout the course of the show but Luciano seems to have become a better and more effective criminal from his experiences whereas Capone doesn't seem to have gained any particular wisdom and gives little consideration to the consequences of his actions.

 

The moment with the empire statue was Gyp Rosetti worthy. Just awful. I knew it was going to bad the moment the guy decided to linger.

 

The flashbacks were a little lengthy but I really liked the way the scene ended.

 

Was the Commodore looking at child porn? I thought that was what he was covering up when Nucky came into the room.

[alynch]

Was the Commodore looking at child porn? I thought that was what he was covering up when Nucky came into the room.

 

They were definitely pictures of little girls. They were all clothed, but I'm guessing it would still qualify as porn in that period.

[thuganomics85]

Oh, Sally.  I should have known that was how it would end for you.  It might have been better if you never got involved.  This has got to be bad for Nucky: not just the personal reasons (I do think he really did have affection for her), but the business has just suffered a huge blow.  Not sure how he's going out of this one.

 

What in the hell just happened?  Margaret was actually the highlight of the episode?  And, it's not like the rest wasn't good, because it was, but I just found her likable and fun in this episode.  And, I really enjoyed the Nucky/Margaret scenes.  I still don't think they could ever work as a couple, but I do think there is still a spark, and they both just light up, whenever they are interacting like this.  Steve Buscemi and Kelly McDonald really have good chemistry with each other.  This felt like the most those two have ever been honest with each other, and I enjoyed it.  Go figure.

 

Meanwhile, in Chicago, oh boy.  I knew something bad was going to happen to Al's underling; it was just waiting for that moment.  Al really is just something else.  I think the scene of him watching and cheering his own video pretty much says it all.  He is so arrogant, short-tempered, and egotistical.  Add that with violence, and that is dangerous.  But, then you compare him to Lucky, who is dangerous and but also very subtle, and very serious.  And interesting duo right there.  Curious to see where both of them are heading this season (well, I know what history says, but still!)

 

Van Alden though!  Credit for him talking his way out of that situation, but I have to think the walls are closing in.  It looked like someone in Al's organization found out the truth, so I don't know how he'll be able to wrangle out of this.  If the shit does go down, I hope Eli does go down with him.

 

The flashbacks are still grabbing me.  Like seeing more of Nucky and Eli's relationship back then.  Also liked seeing more of Lindsey.  I praise the actors playing Young Nucky and Young Commodore a lot, but Boris McGiver is really doing a great job at what could have been a role that could be overshadowed with everything that's going on.  I did chuckle that Ian Hart was credited, even though we only saw him from behind during the sex scene.  I guess Ian Hart's Ass in the credits wouldn't be right, heh.

[Pallas]

So Nucky, who told Kennedy he "doesn't think about" how his upbringing might have driven him, seems to be spending more and more of his time alone deep-sea diving in his memories.  Tonight he found down there a pearl I did not expect:

Showing just some basic human kindness made for a great contrast with all the present day scenes. -- alynch

 

Unexpected, because I did not believe Nucky would allow himself to recall how a man of power (even if that power was circumscribed) might act with unassuming, firm but steadfast kindness.  Allow himself to know that his intermittent yen to be the father within a rich family life was neither fantasy nor a cliche, but rather, something he had witnessed at least one man achieve.  A thoughtful pragmatist: the same man who told Nucky, "You can 't ever know what someone's thinking...You can't stop every bad thing."

 

It looked to me as if the then-Sheriff lived in what became Eli's house, which Nucky may have bought for him.  

[aliya]

I turn around for a second and when I turn back to the TV, Al is stabbing the heck out of somebody. Who was it? The guy he'd been bugging all evening about making jokes? Someone else? 

 

Oh Sally, sad to see you go like that, but when you pull a gun, sometimes a gun gets pulled on you. 

[AimingforYoko]

It looked like someone in Al's organization found out the truth

Yeah, but it's the undercover fed. I imagine they'll try to squeeze Van Alden to turn on Capone.

[ganesh]

Moar Tipsy Margaret PLZ. 

 

Van Alden, as always, is hilarious. It seems unlikely that he'll make it out alive, but one can hope.

 

No, he has to make it out of the series. I have no idea how. Unless they "flip" him and he factors into bringing Al down.

 

My favorite scene was the one with Margaret and Kennedy.

 

Kennedy is so slimy. I don't have a problem with him though. I was surprised a little bit that he didn't want to go into business with Nucky since the real Kennedy was involved with bootlegging. Why bring him in the show at this point if he's not going to be a factor?

 

Luciano sees the bigger picture and doesn't seem like he needs the entourage atmosphere that Capone seems to crave.

 

Murder, Inc. was brilliant and basically what made organized crime last nearly unnoticed for decades. So it's interesting what the show is going to do with Al v Lucky. I don't want them to take over the rest of the show. 

 

Was the Commodore looking at child porn? I thought that was what he was covering up when Nucky came into the room.

 

It looked like one of those joy books that the mormons have. 

[BigMamaThorton]

 

Kennedy is so slimy. I don't have a problem with him though. I was surprised a little bit that he didn't want to go into business with Nucky since the real Kennedy was involved with bootlegging. Why bring him in the show at this point if he's not going to be a factor?

 

 

 

 

 

To show what a lying, immoral, hypocrite Old Man Kennedy was.  But it's not too beneath him to dip his wick in the local Thompson-esque talent. Because, well, HE's the "right kind" of lawbreaking, bootlegging, inside trading citizen of the world.

 

Seeing next week's preview 

has me calling Margaret's death a la, "Won't rest until I see you in the grave" comment. Because, yeah, have her drunk, being all honest with one another, stoke the flames of battered Nucky/Margaret shipper's hearts…..and then kill her. I'm calling it now. Mine.

[lucindabelle]

Kennedy is a bootlegger. He already bootlegging scotch. He said so.

Baby steps... That cracked me up.

I think Margaret surprised herself by sincerely missing Nucky. And she's surprised he didn't hit on her and she kind of wanted him to, I loved her saying she asked herself, what would you do.

Little Nucky broke my heart when he cried at dinner. I was hoping somewhere people would remember they're just little boys, taking a bath. And someone did.

I really, really do not want to see an older Nucky procuring Gillian, though. Little Eli's can we go home now broke my heart too. Aww.

[terrymct]

It was a mistake separating Nucky and Margaret when they did. I understand Kelly McDonald's pregnancy may have factored into how much she could be seen last season but I always thought they had great scenes and they were terrific fun to watch tonight. 

 

I think they needed to separate them for a while.  The Margaret character had become really nothing more than a hypocritical harpy.  Now, she has some interesting history they need to deal with and (hopefully) more confidence and a more realistic viewpoint.

[Neurochick]

I was confused by that scene with Sally.  Why did the police stop her?  Were they going to kill her anyway? 

[terrymct]

I was confused by that scene with Sally.  Why did the police stop her?  Were they going to kill her anyway? 

 

 

There was a curfew because of the fighting between the military and the rebels.  She was out driving after the curfew.

[Neurochick]

There was a curfew because of the fighting between the military and the rebels.  She was out driving after the curfew.

 

I got that part, but the cops seemed to go on and on.  I couldn't understand why they just didn't tell her, "there's a curfew, go home."  But then again, I'm not a cop.

[terrymct]

I got that part, but the cops seemed to go on and on.  I couldn't understand why they just didn't tell her, "there's a curfew, go home."  But then again, I'm not a cop.

 

I took it as a bit of hard ass harassment on his part, a good bit of maneuvering on her part, then of course, the gun.

[Primetimer]

The past comes flashing back on Boardwalk Empire as an old friend recognizes Van Alden and Nucky remembers a fully-realized childhood episode.

Read the story

[NutMeg]

I liked the episode a lot, especially the Nucky/Margaret interaction, but what was the point of killing Sally so suddenly? As far as I'm concerned, I've been intrigued by her character but not really involved in it, so it doesn't affect me at all. (Was I supposed to be? I would have been way more affected with a killing of "Muller", but I'm weird like that...).     

[HumblePi]

They were definitely pictures of little girls. They were all clothed, but I'm guessing it would still qualify as porn in that period.

Oh dayum! I must have blinked and missed that. Sure as shooting, as I watched this episode again I saw that's exactly what the Commodore was looking at, child pornography of the day. Didn't he rape Gillian when she was only 12 years old? (six weeks from her 13th birthday) She fell asleep in his bed until she awoke to find The Commodore raping her. He smelled of "whiskey and tobacco"  What might he have actually done to little Nucky that we don't know about yet? Ewww the Commodore was a pedophile!

[RealityGal]

Little Nucky broke my heart when he cried at dinner. I was hoping somewhere people would remember they're just little boys, taking a bath. And someone did.

I really, really do not want to see an older Nucky procuring Gillian, though. Little Eli's can we go home now broke my heart too. Aww.

Little Nucky and Little Eli on the beach got me misty eyed.  To see so much, and have none of it, the pain of it.  Damn those believable child actors!

I liked the episode a lot, especially the Nucky/Margaret interaction, but what was the point of killing Sally so suddenly? As far as I'm concerned, I've been intrigued by her character but not really involved in it, so it doesn't affect me at all. (Was I supposed to be? I would have been way more affected with a killing of "Muller", but I'm weird like that...).     

I would guess to jar the audience.  I know I felt like Van Alden go out of his jam, and that seemed like the jammiest of jams.  Even though I get that Cuba is changing, I totally didn't see Sally's death until it happened.  Right up until she got shot I thought she was gonna walk off into the woods/fields and find a way back home.  I guess maybe they wanted to remind us that BE is not a show afraid to kill off big characters, so never feel comfortable!

[Neurochick]

Was the Commodore looking at child porn? I thought that was what he was covering up when Nucky came into the room.

 

 

I thought that scene was interesting, because it was just a fleeting second, but I clearly saw photographs of little girls on a blotter or something.  I wonder where the Commodore got that?  Maybe he has one of his underlings take pictures of little girls...yuk.

[RealityGal]

I was confused by that scene with Sally.  Why did the police stop her?  Were they going to kill her anyway? 

The police stopped her for the curfew, or on the pretense of a curfew at least, but I think at some point they were resolved to kill her.  The lead guy didn't seem mad that she got shot, only that it was done in public.  I'm assuming he was on the rebels side because of what he said about people getting paid a peso a day to work in a sugar cane field (and at that point, she could have mustered up some sort of sympathy, I mean, that does kinda suck).  I wonder if they weren't just going to drag her someplace and try to do it quietly.

[BusyOctober]

When Little Nucky spied through the window, was that his father and mother going at it?  Or did his mother start having mid-day "dates" to supplement the household income?  I wasn't sure how to interpret that scene. I guessed the boots outside were a signal for the kids to stay out (kind of like hanging a tie or sock on your college dorm room to alert your roommate to get lost).

 

So glad Al's days are numbered.  I read that the real Al Capone contracted syphilis and it rotted his brain away.  That, combined with his cocaine addiction and his rage issues made for a ticking time bomb. I don't care how good the money was, working for him was like taking your life in your hands every day.  Lucky and his syndicate wouldn't have tolerated Capone's "management style", so if Ness hadn't taken him down, I think Lucky, Bugsy or Myer would've taken him out.

 

Bye Sally.  I've never been a fan of Patricia Arquette's acting, but I was sorry to see Sally taken out that way.  I'm guessing Nucky and Bacardi won't be working together after all.

[Muffyn]

Bye Sally.  I've never been a fan of Patricia Arquette's acting, but I was sorry to see Sally taken out that way.  I'm guessing Nucky and Bacardi won't be working together after all.

I enjoyed Patricia Arquette in this role and started to question my negative feeling about her acting.  Then  Is aw that death scene.  It was like something out of an old soap opera or a silent movie.  The scenery was filled with teeth marks.  

[hincandenza]

Not a whole lot to say- decent episode, like all of them this season, and the show seems to continue doing a good job of setting up all the pieces to fall into place by season/series end.  I'm liking the pacing of the flashback sequences, although it makes this feel like a different show than the one I started watching- more of an Eulogy on Nucky than a narrative tale at this point.  Still, it's much better than the national nightmare that was the Gyp Rosetti era.  *shiver*

 

Did I detect one little anachronism?  When young Nucky and Eli are at the sheriff's dinner table and his wife brings up drinking, and maybe him talking to the "women" about the things he's seen... was there another prohibition movement in the mid-1880's?  Because otherwise it doesn't make sense: why would a good Christian wife of that age even be thinking about other men's drinking, 30-35 years before actual prohibition began?  Or did the seeds of the prohibition movement get sown early enough that this conversation makes historical sense?  Because I honestly thought the writers of that scene maybe forgot the two characters were young versions of Eli and Nucky and this was all happening in 1884, not 1918.

 

Shame about Sally- I couldn't not see Patricia Arquette under the wardrobe acting, any more than I have ever been able to see Nucky instead of Buscemi- but I thought she had a good arc and good chemistry with Nucky, and was an interesting character to watch.  Plus, yet another huge business venture ruined for Nucky; it's unclear where he even makes money at this point, since if he's still bootlegging it's an awfully quiet operation.  Speaking of which, Margaret has bored me for ages, and I just don't get drawn in by her weird passive-aggressive coy innocent routine.  I still don't get how she is forgiven by Nucky or us for giving away what would have been for Nucky millions- in 1920's dollars- in completely legal, above-board income from all that rail property, or how Nucky didn't lean on that priest to get the land back.  He'd be doing well for himself, and like Joe Kennedy appear to be a truly "legitimate businessman".  Instead, he's got to deal with Margaret rolling in after being gone for years and basically saying "Hi, how's it been, kids are fine, we need $2M dollars".  What a jerk she is- but I don't think Nucky will kill her next episode, because that hardly solves the problem of Carolyn Rothstein, who would just go after the husband of the deceased.

 

Oh, one last thing: I know the Depression hits hard, but this show has always had a really weird and inconsistent relationship with money and purchasing power.  I mean, in seasons 1 and 2, I could swear there were times where some minor character would demand a bribe from Nucky and get something like $100K with Nucky barely doing more than grimacing... when in 1921, $100K was worth about $2.6 million in 2014 dollars. Yet other times it was like pulling teeth for him to pay off a $5K bribe or something.  In this episode, he hinted to Margaret at one point that he was basically broke.  His operations are clearly still pulling in some funds, but nothing like the glory days of excess we saw when the show started.  Still, giving even 25 cents on the dollar to Carolyn Rothstein would be nearly half a million dollars in today's funds.  Does he even have that much?  Is he willing to spend it to make a problem that isn't his go away?  Maybe less willing to avoid the threatened publicity that Carolyn is blackmailing him with, now that he doesn't have to keep his nose clean for Joe Kennedy.

[Mindymoo]

Hicandenza- The women's temperance movement has a long history, going back into the 1800s. Watch the Ken Burns documentary about Prohibition on Netflix. There were a lot of people calling for the banning of alcohol for a very, very long time.

[MrsRafaelBarba]

Am I the only one, that shipped Sally and MickeyDoyle?

Their scenes in AC, were one of the unexpected bright spots last season.

[Pallas]

Yes, Nucky's last conversation with Sally wasn't even: it was between Sally and Mickey Doyle.  And his actual final conversation with Sally is one he will wince to remember: Nucky hungover, distracted, abrupt.  Sending Sally off to do his business, and get killed for it.  

 

Nucky may now take a beating from his own on-again-off-again savior complex.  

[CouchTater]

(whispers) I sort of have a crush on Mickey Doyle, when he's not making that stupid giggling noise.  And I did like his interactions with Sally.

Edited September 29, 2014 by CouchTater

[RealityGal]

Hicandenza- The women's temperance movement has a long history, going back into the 1800s. Watch the Ken Burns documentary about Prohibition on Netflix. There were a lot of people calling for the banning of alcohol for a very, very long time.

Ken Burns is the bomb dot com

[txhorns79]

The police stopped her for the curfew, or on the pretense of a curfew at least, but I think at some point they were resolved to kill her.

 

I kind of agree, with reservations.  I initially thought it was right at the point where she offered to bribe them that they would kill her.  In their view, she's just some American who thinks they are a bunch of drunks who can be easily bought.  However, he honestly seemed upset that they killed an American (likely because trouble would be made over her death), so I wasn't sure if his plan was always to kill her, or perhaps just scare her, so she'll respect them more next time.       

 

 

He smelled of "whiskey and tobacco"  What might he have actually done to little Nucky that we don't know about yet? Ewww the Commodore was a pedophile!

 

Judging by the pictures, the Commodore's interest is little girls, not little boys.  I never had the impression that he and Nucky knew each other in that way.  Too bad the 19th Century version of SVU doesn't exist, or else I smell crossover!

 

And yes, lots of kudos to the child actors doing Nucky and Eli.  The actor doing Nucky has thoroughly convinced me that he could be Nucky when he grows up.  He has the role down pat.     

 

Finally, seeing Nucky and Margaret together, with the easy chemistry and general sweetness, really makes me miss their relationship.  They spent Season 3 hating each other, and Margaret barely had a presence in Season 4, so it was nice to just see them hanging out, shooting the breeze, in a relaxed setting.  I understand why they can't be together, but I see why they make a believable couple. 

[Pickles Aplenty]

 

Was the Commodore looking at child porn? I thought that was what he was covering up when Nucky came into the room.

 

 

I thought that scene was interesting, because it was just a fleeting second, but I clearly saw photographs of little girls on a blotter or something.  I wonder where the Commodore got that?  Maybe he has one of his underlings take pictures of little girls...yuk.

I think they were Lewis Carroll photos, because I saw this one, of Alice Liddell: http://www.alice-in-wonderland.net/alicepic/people/alice-liddell-2.jpg

[paigow]

Sunday is so confusing... Mickey Doyle & Mickey Donovan...

Does Eli know the true identity of George Mueller?

[lucindabelle]

I'm on team Nucky and Margaret. I loved them together before the land deal nonsense, and Billie. Reset. They have so much respect deep down for one another. And his not hitting on her impressed her.

[Aprilshowers]

What a amazing episode. I love how boardwalk writes its characters for the most part and am thoroughly enjoying Nucky's back story after all these seasons and seeing glimpses of where he and Eli come from it truly is heartbreaking to witness what those kids went through seeing it more in depth.

 

I am actually enjoying Kennedy and I think he may be even more dangerous then we know.

 

Margaret and Nucky were a thing of beauty such great chemistry and the writing is spot on, lot of water under the bridge with those two.

 

Capone is truly a disgusting individual and needs to be put down, if that scene with Mueller and the gun to his head didn't keep you on the edge of your seat nothing will

 

Luciano is hot /shallow/

 

Poor Sally, doesn't she know driving in the dark in BE universe is a death wish?

[RealityGal]

Luciano is hot /shallow/

 

 

Yes!  I know in real life he is supposed to be ugly, and I won't lie, that droopy eye isn't awesome, but I've always found him to be physically attractive in real life photos and now on the show.

 

I wonder if Capone isn't starting to suffer the effects of the syphilis madness, I'm not sure when he contracted it?  

[Avaleigh]

I wonder if Capone isn't starting to suffer the effects of the syphilis madness, I'm not sure when he contracted it?

 

 

It's kind of odd that they'd spend a fair amount of time with Luciano and his STD and not really give much (any?) details about Capone's syphilis and how it might be effecting his mind and overall behavior. 

 

I was mostly struck by how immature Capone still his. I mean he hardly seems like he's grown up at all since the first season and I well remember that scene where that man was telling Capone that he wears the hat of a boy. It almost seemed like Al was headed for some growth and maturity after he stopped wearing "the hat of a boy" but not so much in the following seasons.

 

Nice catch, alynch pointing out that Al seems to have forgotten Jimmy Darmody and that he was once friends with him. He had virtually no reaction when Luciano brought up Jimmy's name and Lucky and Jimmy weren't friends the way that Jimmy and Al were.

Edited September 30, 2014 by Avaleigh

[Pallas]

Finally, seeing Nucky and Margaret together, with the easy chemistry and general sweetness, really makes me miss their relationship.  They spent Season 3 hating each other, and Margaret barely had a presence in Season 4, so it was nice to just see them hanging out, shooting the breeze, in a relaxed setting.  I understand why they can't be together, but I see why they make a believable couple.

 

Love that assessment, txhorns.  And, 

 

I initially thought it was right at the point where she offered to bribe them that they would kill her.  In their view, she's just some American who thinks they are a bunch of drunks who can be easily bought.  However, he honestly seemed upset that they killed an American (likely because trouble would be made over her death), so I wasn't sure if his plan was always to kill her, or perhaps just scare her, so she'll respect them more next time.

 

I agree that Sally was probably doomed by her own "you and me, we know how the world really works" flirtatious cynicism with the head cop, which boiled down to "Cuanto?"  Very canny; very crafted, very misdirected.  Right angle, wrong mark. The cop felt "handled" and he wasn't in the mood, not at that place and time, not in front of his men.  I also agree that right then, her nationality trumped her gender with him: Sally was less a woman and more The Man.  

 

Nucky, at the top of his game, had the gift of negotiating with proud men who knew that society and even Nucky considered them his social inferior.  He might have smoothed the way.  

 

But my question is, are we meant to be certain that the cop was acting on his own?  Bacardi informed Sally that Nucky's bribe would be spent purchasing support from the Army: protection, that is, with the Cuban army acting as a Mafia with epaulets.  Is it possible that Bacardi also bought the police and ordered the hit?  Did he simply pocket the cash and look to his next potential partner (maybe even Joe Kennedy?)  Did he perceive Nucky as an isolated free-lance, partnered with a woman and lacking the organization behind him to avenge the double-cross?   

Edited September 30, 2014 by Pallas

[TV Diva Queen]

Not a whole lot to say- decent episode, like all of them this season, and the show seems to continue doing a good job of setting up all the pieces to fall into place by season/series end.  I'm liking the pacing of the flashback sequences, although it makes this feel like a different show than the one I started watching- more of an Eulogy on Nucky than a narrative tale at this point.  Still, it's much better than the national nightmare that was the Gyp Rosetti era.  *shiver*

 

Did I detect one little anachronism?  When young Nucky and Eli are at the sheriff's dinner table and his wife brings up drinking, and maybe him talking to the "women" about the things he's seen... was there another prohibition movement in the mid-1880's?  Because otherwise it doesn't make sense: why would a good Christian wife of that age even be thinking about other men's drinking, 30-35 years before actual prohibition began?  Or did the seeds of the prohibition movement get sown early enough that this conversation makes historical sense?  Because I honestly thought the writers of that scene maybe forgot the two characters were young versions of Eli and Nucky and this was all happening in 1884, not 1918.

 

Shame about Sally- I couldn't not see Patricia Arquette under the wardrobe acting, any more than I have ever been able to see Nucky instead of Buscemi- but I thought she had a good arc and good chemistry with Nucky, and was an interesting character to watch.  Plus, yet another huge business venture ruined for Nucky; it's unclear where he even makes money at this point, since if he's still bootlegging it's an awfully quiet operation.  Speaking of which, Margaret has bored me for ages, and I just don't get drawn in by her weird passive-aggressive coy innocent routine.  I still don't get how she is forgiven by Nucky or us for giving away what would have been for Nucky millions- in 1920's dollars- in completely legal, above-board income from all that rail property, or how Nucky didn't lean on that priest to get the land back.  He'd be doing well for himself, and like Joe Kennedy appear to be a truly "legitimate businessman".  Instead, he's got to deal with Margaret rolling in after being gone for years and basically saying "Hi, how's it been, kids are fine, we need $2M dollars".  What a jerk she is- but I don't think Nucky will kill her next episode, because that hardly solves the problem of Carolyn Rothstein, who would just go after the husband of the deceased.

 

Oh, one last thing: I know the Depression hits hard, but this show has always had a really weird and inconsistent relationship with money and purchasing power.  I mean, in seasons 1 and 2, I could swear there were times where some minor character would demand a bribe from Nucky and get something like $100K with Nucky barely doing more than grimacing... when in 1921, $100K was worth about $2.6 million in 2014 dollars. Yet other times it was like pulling teeth for him to pay off a $5K bribe or something.  In this episode, he hinted to Margaret at one point that he was basically broke.  His operations are clearly still pulling in some funds, but nothing like the glory days of excess we saw when the show started.  Still, giving even 25 cents on the dollar to Carolyn Rothstein would be nearly half a million dollars in today's funds.  Does he even have that much?  Is he willing to spend it to make a problem that isn't his go away?  Maybe less willing to avoid the threatened publicity that Carolyn is blackmailing him with, now that he doesn't have to keep his nose clean for Joe Kennedy.

Nucky wasn't going to give her the money.  He told Margaret to get it.  He said something like "you shook down AR, you know what to do".  She's going to embezzle from more trading accounts. 

[terrymct]

Nucky wasn't going to give her the money.  He told Margaret to get it.  He said something like "you shook down AR, you know what to do".  She's going to embezzle from more trading accounts. 

 

Nucky told Margaret to offer the Widow Rothstein 25 cents on the dollar.

[Latverian Diplomat]

Kennedy is so slimy. I don't have a problem with him though. I was surprised a little bit that he didn't want to go into business with Nucky since the real Kennedy was involved with bootlegging. Why bring him in the show at this point if he's not going to be a factor?

 

 

Kennedy is a bootlegger. He already bootlegging scotch. He said so.

Technically, he claimed never to have broken the law, which leaves out actual bootlegging. The scotch deal is to have an importation contract ready to go the second prohibition ends, similar to Nucky's plans for Bacardi.

 

I imagine there's a squadron of Kennedy family lawyers ready to take flight if there's any portrayal of Kennedy as an actual criminal (never proven) as opposed to a sleazeball, which is neither disputable nor actionable for a public figure.

 

They did make note of his stock market manipulations, which were only unscrupulous, not illegal. One reason he was the first SEC chairman is that he understood all the tricks the SEC was intended to put a stop to.

[RealityGal]

Technically, he claimed never to have broken the law, which leaves out actual bootlegging. The scotch deal is to have an importation contract ready to go the second prohibition ends, similar to Nucky's plans for Bacardi.

 

I imagine there's a squadron of Kennedy family lawyers ready to take flight if there's any portrayal of Kennedy as an actual criminal (never proven) as opposed to a sleazeball, which is neither disputable nor actionable for a public figure.

 

They did make note of his stock market manipulations, which were only unscrupulous, not illegal. One reason he was the first SEC chairman is that he understood all the tricks the SEC was intended to put a stop to.

I think historically Kennedy was a bootlegger.  While never technically proven, I don't see any reason for Frank Costello (and other Harvard alums) to lie.  But I think the "technically" could mean that since he has never been caught/convicted, he has never actually broken the law.

Edited September 30, 2014 by RealityGal

[TV Diva Queen]

Nucky told Margaret to offer the Widow Rothstein 25 cents on the dollar.

Yes he did tell her that, he never said he was going to give Margaret the money....then he said the rest of what I said he said.  He's telling her to steal it,  Best of both worlds...stealing it and shorting her (Mrs R)

[Latverian Diplomat]

I think historically Kennedy was a bootlegger.  While never technically proven, I don't see any reason for Frank Costello (and other Harvard alums) to lie.  But I think the "technically" could mean that since he has never been caught/convicted, he has never actually broken the law. 

I agree, but I don't think the show is using that technicality, they seem to be genuinely portraying Kennedy as relatively clean and thus (in some sense) shrewder than Nucky.

 

I was trying to say that fear of getting their asses sued off was a reason for this. It's a problem when dealing with historical figures whose families still have significant clout. 

Edited September 30, 2014 by Latverian Diplomat

[RealityGal]

I agree, but I don't think the show is using that technicality, they seem to be genuinely portraying Kennedy as relatively clean and thus (in some sense) shrewder than Nucky.

 

I was trying to say that fear of getting their asses sued off was a reason for this. It's a problem when dealing with historical figures whose families still have significant clout. 

Oh, I have my doubts that any of the Kennedy family would take legal action if the show were to portray Kennedy as a bootlegger.  I think a defense to slander/libel/defamation is truth, or reasonable belief that what you are saying is the truth.  Based on the claims made by Costello, other underworld figures, and Harvard alums there is likely enough to support a reasonable belief that Kennedy was a bootlegger if they wanted to portray it on the show.  And since its a fictional show, I think it would be unlikely to be actionable.  Think of all the inaccuracies of "Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Slayer."  This isn't a historical, documentary account of a real person, this is a fictional show.

Edited September 30, 2014 by RealityGal