S01.E17: I Was That, Too

[chitowngirl]

A pregnant woman asks for Olympia's help obtaining a divorce from her husband, whose family is a client of the firm.
 

Airdate April 10, 2025 on CBS

[AnimeMania]

Next New Episode: Two-Episode Season Finale

Edited April 10 by AnimeMania

[ItCouldBeWorse]

On 4/4/2025 at 9:13 PM, Percysowner said:

I suppose she could also have applied for a name change before she started this deceit just to cover herself legally i.e. she is practicing under her legal name. As long as she reported it to the Bar Association, she should be clear.

 All credit to Percysowner.  Both you and Mattie thought of everything.

 

Edited April 11 by ItCouldBeWorse

[ItCouldBeWorse]

If Amy couldn't leave the office to go to the hospital because her husband's security would follow her (and do what exactly?), how could she get to the courtroom?  Why wouldn't the husband appear there to argue against the annulment?  And a one-sided annulment isn't available in NY:

The Annulment Process in New York State

The process of obtaining an annulment in New York State involves several steps, including:

Filing a Petition: The process begins with filing a petition for annulment in the appropriate court. The petition must include details of the marriage, the grounds for annulment, and any supporting evidence.

Notification: The other spouse must be served with the petition and given an opportunity to respond.

Court Proceedings: The court will schedule a hearing where you are required to prove the grounds for an annulment exists.

Final Judgment: If the court finds sufficient grounds for annulment, it will issue a judgment declaring the marriage null and void.

Edited April 11 by ItCouldBeWorse

[johntfs]

7 minutes ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

IF Amy couldn't leave the office to go to the hospital because her husband's security would follow her (and do what exactly), how could she get to the courtroom?  Why wouldn't the husband appear there to argue against the annulment?  And a one-sided annulment isn't available in NY:

The Annulment Process in New York State

The process of obtaining an annulment in New York State involves several steps, including:

Filing a Petition: The process begins with filing a petition for annulment in the appropriate court. The petition must include details of the marriage, the grounds for annulment, and any supporting evidence.

Notification: The other spouse must be served with the petition and given an opportunity to respond.

Court Proceedings: The court will schedule a hearing where you are required to prove the grounds for an annulment exists.

Final Judgment: If the court finds sufficient grounds for annulment, it will issue a judgment declaring the marriage null and void.

A one-sided annulment isn't available in our real world NY, but maybe there's one available in "Legal Fantasy BS" NY.

Meanwhile a couple of times Kathy Bates was channeling some major Annie Wilkes ankle-breaker energy tonight.

I felt really bad for Olympia tearing her house apart looking for Evil Pens.

Sarah was particularly adorable tonight.

I can't wait until next weak when Olympia gets to see the Kingston Wall of Crazy.

Edited April 11 by johntfs

[DanaK]

Wow. Good episode. Maddie is forced to reveal all to Olympia. Loved Olympia’s silent what’s up at the end to Matty’s husband and grandson

[ItCouldBeWorse]

32 minutes ago, DanaK said:

Wow. Good episode. Maddie is forced to reveal all to Olympia. Loved Olympia’s silent what’s up at the end to Matty’s husband and grandson

Yes, despite my complaints about the annulment storyline, the main story reveal was very good.  (I'm also glad there was a bathroom in that office for locked-in Maddie to use.  I was a little concerned about that!)

That reminds me; how do potential clients (Amy) just appear upstairs after hours, or, really, at any time?  Shouldn't security have to phone upstairs first? And if security is gone, no one comes upstairs?  That's how the abusive husband gained entrance.  What if he had had a gun?

Are priests normally available late at night?  Did Sarah and Billy call all those former girlfriends late at night?  These secondary stories are just way too compressed in time.  And an emergency, nighttime annulment is almost definitely not a thing.  It would have been more believable if they had called a dozen Ubers to the firm garage, put Amy into one under a blanket, do the same with Billy, Sarah, Olympia and Matty in 4 more, and head off to various hospitals, trying to lose the husband's security.

[Irlandesa]

I have a love/hate relationship with this episode. 

I loved the part of the episode that followed the season-long thread.  There was a lot of suspense and intrigue. I especially loved Billy and Sarah hearing Maddie's phone go off in Olympia's purse. On another show, that'd be the symbol of death. 

The part I hated was everything related to the marriage.  The quick anullment was already discussed but there were other issues.  For one, I know the husband is usually considered the father but she could get her one night stand to file for custody.  Or work with the hospital to keep him away. 

But even if she didn't think she could make that happen, the whole prenup was bogus.  You can't legislate custody through a prenup. Custody and child support is separate from marital property.

Edited April 11 by Irlandesa

[Bastet]

I will let everything about the case go - for tonight, anyway - because I was frakkin' glued to my TV for all the Olympia/Matty stuff.  Someone please go engrave all the awards for Skye Marshall.  Goddamn.  She had to play so many emotions, and she nailed every one of them.  I don't know if I can pick a favorite, but top contenders are:  the flashback to her at home, make-up off and hair covered, frantically searching for additional listening devices and then making up an explanation to her kids, and the way her voice broke and she had to repeat herself when saying "my friend" to Matty.

Edited April 11 by Bastet

[Dowel Jones]

I'm rather curious about an office building that has a room that can be locked from the outside (fine) but not unlocked from the inside.  But I'll let that go in the interests of the plot, which was absolutely riveting.

Did the show actually mention before this point that she had legally changed her name or that she had passed the bar in New York, as she claimed?

Completely irrelevant but on the topic of annulment, I remember a news story, decades ago, of Ted Kennedy filing for an annulment from his separated wife after something like 15 years of marriage and a few kids.  Divorce wasn't going to cut it, because he wanted to get remarried to his current girlfriend in the Catholic Church.

[chessiegal]

5 hours ago, Dowel Jones said:

Completely irrelevant but on the topic of annulment, I remember a news story, decades ago, of Ted Kennedy filing for an annulment from his separated wife after something like 15 years of marriage and a few kids.  Divorce wasn't going to cut it, because he wanted to get remarried to his current girlfriend in the Catholic Church.

I know someone whose husband got an annulment after they had 10, count 'em, 10 children. Her ex wanted to marry again in the Catholic church. Her brother read the annulment decision and told her not to read it - too infuriating. The husband went straight to Rome. Evidently with enough $$$$ the ex was able to secure it.

[EtheltoTillie]

I had stopped watching this, but I tuned in last night to see how they resolved the ID reveal.   Kathy Bates and Skye Marshall did not disappoint.  Both were fantastic.  Logic may have been lacking, though.  And a big law office that was devoid of late working associates?  That would not happen.

[Chicago Redshirt]

6 hours ago, Dowel Jones said:

Did the show actually mention before this point that she had legally changed her name or that she had passed the bar in New York, as she claimed?

AFAIK, this was the first time that it was said that her legal name was now Madeline Matlock and that she actually passed the NY Bar. I'll take it at face value that these things are true. 

5 minutes ago, EtheltoTillie said:

I had stopped watching this, but I tuned in last night to see how they resolved the ID reveal.   Kathy Bates and Skye Marshall did not disappoint.  Both were fantastic.  Logic may have been lacking, though.  And a big law office that was devoid of late working associates?  That would not happen.

In 2025, I could see a lot of associates working remotely

9 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

The part I hated was everything related to the marriage.  The quick anullment was already discussed but there were other issues.  For one, I know the husband is usually considered the father but she could get her one night stand to file for custody.  Or work with the hospital to keep him away. 

But even if she didn't think she could make that happen, the whole prenup was bogus.  You can't legislate custody through a prenup. Custody and child support is separate from marital property.

I mean, I'm not a family lawyer, but hypothetically at least, people can put whatever they want into a contract. If it was THAT important to him that any kids she might have -- even out of wedlock -- would be legally in his custody (say, to stick it to her for her infidelity, because he REALLY wants an heir to the Blahdiblah fortune that desperately, or to avoid spending extra for child support/alimony)  and she was willing to sign off on it, then I don't see why the prenup couldn't have such a provision.

 

10 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

Yes, despite my complaints about the annulment storyline, the main story reveal was very good.  (I'm also glad there was a bathroom in that office for locked-in Maddie to use.  I was a little concerned about that!)

That reminds me; how do potential clients (Amy) just appear upstairs after hours, or, really, at any time?  Shouldn't security have to phone upstairs first? And if security is gone, no one comes upstairs?  That's how the abusive husband gained entrance.  What if he had had a gun?

Are priests normally available late at night?  Did Sarah and Billy call all those former girlfriends late at night?  These secondary stories are just way too compressed in time.  And an emergency, nighttime annulment is almost definitely not a thing.  It would have been more believable if they had called a dozen Ubers to the firm garage, put Amy into one under a blanket, do the same with Billy, Sarah, Olympia and Matty in 4 more, and head off to various hospitals, trying to lose the husband's security.

Considering Maddie has proved how subpar the security was at the building a few times now, I'll buy that a pregnant woman could bluff her way to Jacobson Moore late night. 

I would say priests are on-call 24-7 for pastoral emergencies. I suppose it's possible that he would be convinced to come out in person on the pretext that it was really important. 

I'd hope that someone who was in school for neuro-psych (or whatever) would be savvy enough to the ways of the world that she would not create this emergency situation. I mean, she's presumably known she's pregnant for several months now, and known it's not her husband's for a good portion of that time. 

Also, I know it was for story purposes, but why would a rich, relatively handsome religious guy marry an atheist? What kind of crappy premarital counseling did he receive from his priest that didn't point out that might be an issue, especially if she is telling the truth that she's so much an atheist that she would never have married him if she knew how religious he was? 

[babyrambo]

Skye Marshall is so good. I’ve liked her portrayal of Olympia from day one, but her performance in this episode was my favourite. So measured and riveting. Especially in the beginning, when she’s obviously devastated, but is also struggling against her fondness for Matty—her gradual thawing as she goes from pure disbelief and shutting Matty down every time she tries to being up Ellie, to eventually coming around yet still stopping Matty because she knows she’ll break if she hears out Matty’s loss and pain, was perfectly played. She’d been seamlessly bouncing between anger, grief, and confusion the entire episode, but that thread was particularly well done. As were the flashbacks, which were probably the most useful ones of the season. Olympia scrambling around her apartment, desperation mounting, and then having to put on an act for her kids, was the most affecting scene of the episode for me. Out of everything Matty’s done, her callous interference with Olympia’s marriage (&kids) has been what’s irritated me the most, so I hope Olympia gets to hold on to that anger even as she finds out more about Matty’s crusade. Because as much as Matty likes her and as real as some of her regret is, I don’t doubt that she’d do it all again if it meant answers for Ellie. 

I’ve read interviews in which Bates says that once she and Marshall had their chemistry test, she immediately knew that she was Olympia. And all season long, their chemistry really has elevated some of the sillier aspects of the writing but this episode cinched it. Implausible legalities aside, I thought the case nicely complimented the larger story & really liked the moments between Sarah and the client, in which the dismal inanity of her situation were highlighted, but I could’ve watched an entire episode of just Olympia and Matty going back and forth in that office. 

[ItCouldBeWorse]

1 hour ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

AFAIK, this was the first time that it was said that her legal name was now Madeline Matlock and that she actually passed the NY Bar. I'll take it at face value that these things are true. 

I will, too. Mattie really did think ahead. Loved her emergency bracelet that would immediately bring security to her.

8 hours ago, Dowel Jones said:

I'm rather curious about an office building that has a room that can be locked from the outside (fine) but not unlocked from the inside.  But I'll let that go in the interests of the plot, which was absolutely riveting.

Me, too. (Although it's a huge fire hazard.)

8 hours ago, Dowel Jones said:

Completely irrelevant but on the topic of annulment, I remember a news story, decades ago, of Ted Kennedy filing for an annulment from his separated wife after something like 15 years of marriage and a few kids.  Divorce wasn't going to cut it, because he wanted to get remarried to his current girlfriend in the Catholic Church.

Read this about another Kennedy wife who to fought back (she wrote a book about it):  https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/9693/vatican-reverses-annulment-decision-of-kennedy-rauch-marriage

 

[Percysowner]

9 hours ago, Dowel Jones said:

Did the show actually mention before this point that she had legally changed her name or that she had passed the bar in New York, as she claimed?

The show did not mention this before, which is why this forum has been debating this for a while. We were trying to figure out how she could do all this, not be in trouble legally AND not have all the cases she worked on in danger. I give the show runners a world of credit for 1) Having planned for these questions and 2) Giving the audience credit that they would start asking these questions as the show went on. IMO this was good writing and good planning all around. It gave the audience something to think about and wonder about as far as how Matty could get away with her ploy AND they had an answer waiting for the right moment to reveal.

On another topic, I really, really hope it wasn't Julian who stole the files. I like him. I like the fact that he and Olympia have a civil divorce and are good co-parents. I hope there can be another explanation for all of this. Maybe someone signing the fire drill papers then going back in in the hubbub.

[Chicago Redshirt]

Another thing that was clarified was that Mrs. B wrote the post about Jacobson Moore's alleged malfeasance 14 years ago, and Alfie came across it 2 years ago, as opposed to Mrs. B carrying the secret of it for 12 years and then writing the Reddit post finally 2 years ago.

I do want more insight into what the post actually said, how Mrs. B was handling this complicity, and what she will do when she finds out Matty is who she is. #justiceforbarrymanilow.

[johntfs]

I'm really looking forward to next week and Olympia getting to know Madeline Kingston, who's probably a lot scarier than "Mattie Matlock."

This is a woman who legally changed her name, passed the New York Bar and had a "paramedic" SWAT team on standby to rescue her from the firm's security if need be.

I wouldn't be surprised to learn that Madeline Kingston was the Senior at her old firm.

[Dowel Jones]

I don't follow Reddit, but would the site carry a post for 12 years?

[Chicago Redshirt]

8 minutes ago, Dowel Jones said:

I don't follow Reddit, but would the site carry a post for 12 years?

Google seems to suggest that posts stay up on Reddit until mods or the OP deletes it.  Also in the real world, there's probably archival content of pretty much everything that's been on the Internet. 

In any case, even if real-world Reddit deleted posts more frequently, I'd be willing to suspend disbelief that Matlock-world Reddit worked differently on this score.

[slowpoked]

I was surprised by the annulment too. Even without a lawyer hat nor researching NY law on annulment, I know there’s no way you can get a one-sided annulment. The other party always gets a say. That’s a huge stretch even on TV. 
 

I was thinking though, why couldn’t the judge just grant a temporary restraining order until they sort the whole thing out?  She can give birth and her baby wouldn’t be taken away.

Put away the silly case aside, I really like the parts of the reveal of the truth to Olympia. And it looks like Matty also didn’t hold anything back. She was finally honest. I also like the little story she concocted when found by Billy and Sarah. It’s a sly way to let Olympia know she’s not throwing her under the bus to the two, and at least get some goodwill out of it. I’m really liking Skye P. Marshall, and kudos to that poster who said in an earlier episode thread that what makes Olympia a good character is that she wasn’t just a random character where they casted a black actress to play her. She was really written as a black person, and that’s why Skye’s portrayal feels very authentic.

[shapeshifter]

13 minutes ago, johntfs said:

I'm really looking forward to next week and Olympia getting to know Madeline Kingston, who's probably a lot scarier than "Mattie Matlock."
This is a woman who legally changed her name, passed the New York Bar and had a "paramedic" SWAT team on standby to rescue her from the firm's security if need be.…

13 minutes ago, johntfs said:

…I wouldn't be surprised to learn that Madeline Kingston was the Senior at her old firm.

Maybe.
As someone of Mattie's age group, but not having worked in law, more likely to me is that the former "Mattie Kingston" was at-most second in command, but in reality ran the show for a lower salary that the top man, even though it was Mattie who kept it all running smoothly at great profit without scandals.

 

 

[johntfs]

23 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Maybe.
As someone of Mattie's age group, but not having worked in law, more likely to me is that the former "Mattie Kingston" was at-most second in command, but in reality ran the show for a lower salary that the top man, even though it was Mattie who kept it all running smoothly at great profit without scandals.

 

 

If anything that makes her scarier.  Maybe her nickname was "The Hammer."

[Irlandesa]

5 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

I mean, I'm not a family lawyer, but hypothetically at least, people can put whatever they want into a contract. If it was THAT important to him that any kids she might have -- even out of wedlock -- would be legally in his custody (say, to stick it to her for her infidelity, because he REALLY wants an heir to the Blahdiblah fortune that desperately, or to avoid spending extra for child support/alimony)  and she was willing to sign off on it, then I don't see why the prenup couldn't have such a provision.

Prenups are for the division of assets and property.  Children are neither.

Child support payments and custody are not about what's best for the couple.  They are about what's best for the child.

[Giuseppe]

After Olympia finally finished reading Mattie's letter and started tearing up, I thought for a second that they were going to flashback to showing that it actually was Olympia who stole the document. But I guess that wouldn't make sense since she seemed genuinely surprised to discover it was missing when Mattie sent her to the records room.

But, like others, I'm still holding out hope that it wasn't Julian either. Or if it was, that there was some reasonable justification for it. 

Also agree with others that Skye nailed EVERYTHING this episode. I came to this show for Kathy. I stayed for Skye. She's fantastic. Bring on next week!

[Chicago Redshirt]

1 hour ago, Irlandesa said:

Prenups are for the division of assets and property.  Children are neither.

Child support payments and custody are not about what's best for the couple.  They are about what's best for the child.

Googling, web sites from law firms that apparently handle family law say that terms about custody are generally non-enforceable, but they can be included.

https://www.rcfamilylawyers.com/can-i-include-child-custody-in-my-prenuptial-agreement/

While anything can be written in a prenup (given that both parties agree), not every subject is enforceable. Child custody, visitation, and child support stipulations included in a prenuptial agreement cannot be legally enforced. Only a judge can rule on the details of an agreement impacting a child during divorce.

When two parents divorce it can have a significant negative impact on a child’s growth and development. The most important aspect of any decision is to ensure that the best interests of the child are kept at the forefront. When a couple includes custody information in a prenup they may not agree to a situation that offers a good environment for the child or that allows them to maintain healthy relationships with both parents.

https://www.menslegal.com/blog/prenuptial-agreements-what-they-can-and-cannot-protect/

A common misconception is that prenuptial agreements can dictate terms regarding child custody and support. However, these decisions are exclusively within the court’s purview, which bases its judgments on the child’s best interests. 

The court considers various factors, including the child’s age, health, emotional ties to each parent, and the parents’ ability to care for the child. Consequently, any stipulations within a prenuptial agreement attempting to predetermine child custody or support arrangements are typically regarded as non-binding and subject to court review.

Here's one from a NY firm that explicitly says that you can't put child custody arrangements in a prenup:

https://www.barrowslevy.com/blog/can-you-include-child-custody-in-prenuptial-agreements-in-ny/

If you are interested in creating a prenuptial agreement, it’s important to understand that you cannot include terms and conditions regarding child custody. This is because these matters are ultimately determined by the courts.

For example, if you and your spouse can work together to determine a child custody schedule and do not have a prenup the judge must still approve the plan for it to be legally binding. They will do this by examining whether or not the plan is in the best interest of the child. However, when you create a prenuptial agreement, it is a legally binding document already. As such, any terms and conditions cannot be changed by the courts. As circumstances change in your marriage, the parenting plan you previously established may no longer be in the best interest of the child. Because of this, the courts do not allow terms and conditions related to child custody to be included in the prenuptial agreement. If you have terms regarding child custody in your prenuptial agreement, that portion of your prenup will be deemed invalid.

Now generally unenforceable implies that there may be some exceptions to that rule. 

Here's one that suggests that a prenup CAN address child custody. Could be that they are ignorant, could be that they are saying that it can be put in despite being non-enforceable, etc.:

https://www.flgch.com/blog/how-a-prenup-can-make-the-divorce-process-simpler/

Prenuptial agreements encompass a range of provisions, each tailored to the specific needs and circumstances of the couple. Some of the most common provisions include:

Property division — This outlines how the couple's assets, such as real estate, bank accounts, investments and personal belongings will be divided in the event of a divorce.

Spousal support — This determines whether one spouse will be required to provide financial support to the other after the divorce.

Child custody and support — A prenup will include arrangements for child custody, visitation and child support payments.

Debt division — This addresses how the couple's debts, such as mortgages, car loans and credit card debt will be divided in the event of a divorce.

Inheritance rights — This specifies how inheritance rights will be affected by the divorce.

Anyway, hopefully it's enough to say that even if something doesn't 100 percent work in real world law, we have to suspend disbelief when Matlock says it does in their universe.

[chitowngirl]

I think it was Senior and he set up Julien to keep him under his thumb if anyone found out. And he will lose the law firm, Julian and Olympia will run things. Or we will meet a new, previously unseen partner who will be the new head.

[shapeshifter]

Could Shae have used Julien’s ID to steal the file? 
I know this was discussed at length a couple of episodes ago, but I don’t recall the conclusion, or if recent revelations change our conclusions.

[eel2178]

6 hours ago, babyrambo said:

shutting Matty down every time she tries to bring up Ellie 

Why is that? Has Olympia had a devastating loss we don't know about yet? If she wanted The Truth, The Whole Truth and Nothing But The Truth, why does she abruptly tank the conversation whenever Matty mentions Ellie?

[Dowel Jones]

My guess is that Olympia's first, and strongest reaction to Matty's betrayal is "I don't care why you did it.  I don't care about your daughter or anything else except that you lied to me and tricked me."  It's overpowering anything that Matty says to her.

If I were Olympia, I would be furiously searching every database I could find for a Madeline Kingston to find out her history.

[SoMuchTV]

I was totally sucked in by the first episode, but gradually kept finding it less compelling. Now I’m back in! 

Also, LOL at Maddy saying “I felt like a prisoner in a horror movie!”

[MissLucas]

This was great. I'm so glad Olympia went ballistic over Matty's worst offence and that flashback of her tearing up her rooms was devastating. Skye Marshall was mesmerizing throughout this whole episode - no mean feat when you share the screen with Kathy Bates. This episode could be her Emmy submission.

I liked Sara awkwardly trying to make pregnant Amy comfortable. And her and Billy's little Scoobie adventure. This episode was such high octane that a bit of comic relief was really needed.

This show flies high on the overall plot and treats legal issues with the same amount of accuracy shows like Supernatural or Tracker spare for geography.

I do hope Edwin made enough pancakes!

[possibilities]

I thought Olympia kept shutting down talk about the daughter because she thought it was a lie to manipulate her into being sympathetic.

[Bastet]

4 hours ago, eel2178 said:

If she wanted The Truth, The Whole Truth and Nothing But The Truth, why does she abruptly tank the conversation whenever Matty mentions Ellie?

Because if there really is a dead daughter, and she's somehow the reason for this deception, then Olympia is going to have to feel sorry for her on that level, and maybe even understand why she did all this, and she's not remotely ready for that at those points in the episode.  It's like when Matty heard Olympia's saved message from her dad, after stealing her computer, and had to look up at the suspect board and remind herself "We're not friends". 

[TimsLove25]

It's extremely unlikely that Olympia knew nothing about all of this if Julian was responsible.

I have thought from the beginning that the culprit is the other guy, the one Olympia flirted with...and that he set Julian up because he had his eye on Olympia way back then. 

OR..that in some way, Olympia, Julian and Sr were all complicit.

[Lois Sandborne]

Could they please just make the show about Olympia.

[Chicago Redshirt]

1 hour ago, TimsLove25 said:

It's extremely unlikely that Olympia knew nothing about all of this if Julian was responsible.

I have thought from the beginning that the culprit is the other guy, the one Olympia flirted with...and that he set Julian up because he had his eye on Olympia way back then. 

OR..that in some way, Olympia, Julian and Sr were all complicit.

We really don't know a ton about who all these characters were back then and where they were in their lives. I'm operating under the assumption that Olympia and Julian were dating/married, but they may not have been. 

But even assuming that they were married/living together, there's no real obstacle to Julian having acted to swipe the documents solo and hidden it from Olympia. If we're going with what the show has presented (the Smoking Gun documents were a marketing study talking about labeling opioid danger, and it was taken on a specific day during a fire drill) he easily could have done that without alerting Olympia to his guilt. Olympia, the show has established, was in court during the fire drill so would have no way to know firsthand Julian was acting sketchy. 

[Irlandesa]

8 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Googling, web sites from law firms that apparently handle family law say that terms about custody are generally non-enforceable, but they can be included.

Sure, anything can technically be included in a prenup but I didn't include that because of the other thing you discovered in that those clauses aren't really enforceable.  I think that's the only relevant bit for this story.  Olympia should have been telling her client that she doesn't need a divorce or anullment ASAP because of the prenup.   

2 hours ago, TimsLove25 said:

It's extremely unlikely that Olympia knew nothing about all of this if Julian was responsible.

I'm not sure why she'd have to know.  She probably didn't know all of the documents by heart.  And hiding an affair is harder to do than throwing away a document.  He was able to do the former. 

I am still hoping there's a twist and that's not him but I don't think Olympia would know if he did.

[Percysowner]

9 hours ago, TimsLove25 said:

It's extremely unlikely that Olympia knew nothing about all of this if Julian was responsible.

I think it would be easy for Olympia to not know IF Julian was responsible. She loved him. She thought and still thinks that he is honorable. His family has money, so coming up with the down payment for a nicer house wouldn't necessarily raise red flags. I'm sure lots of trust fund kids are very "I'll make it on my own" and then when they realize they are looking at 2 floor walk up or a really nice house, they decide they can ask Mom and Dad to give them a down payment.

That said, I don't think it's Julian. They have made him look too guilty. I think the entire "it could only have been one of these people" is an assumption Mrs. B made and she may be wrong. We will find out next week.

[Ellee]

I’m still on the ‘it was Elijah or Sr.’s personal assistant’ but the reason for pulling the file is still unknown. 

[baldryanr]

12 hours ago, Bastet said:

Because if there really is a dead daughter, and she's somehow the reason for this deception, then Olympia is going to have to feel sorry for her on that level, and maybe even understand why she did all this, and she's not remotely ready for that at those points in the episode.  It's like when Matty heard Olympia's saved message from her dad, after stealing her computer, and had to look up at the suspect board and remind herself "We're not friends". 

Yup - it's easy to be ruthless when your opponent is a picture on a wall, or if you think of them as a pure villain.  Matty the world class con woman?  Take her down hard.  Matty the grieving mom?  Yeah, it's a lot harder to tear her apart, especially since Olympia is, by all accounts, a fundamentally decent person.

[peachmangosteen]

I know it won't happen, but damn Skye P. Marshall needs an Emmy nom at least for this episode.

[fanestre]

On 4/10/2025 at 10:09 PM, ItCouldBeWorse said:

That reminds me; how do potential clients (Amy) just appear upstairs after hours, or, really, at any time?  Shouldn't security have to phone upstairs first? And if security is gone, no one comes upstairs?  That's how the abusive husband gained entrance.  What if he had had a gun?

A "red shirt" character brought Amy upstairs. Later, when the main characters were all on the 25th floor, Olympia told the 2 younger associates to go relieve her from taking care of Amy

[Zaffy]

Thanks to the writers for answering us the two basic questions about Matty's new identity.
Now, they need to answer us what the actual frak is that floor with the cell-offices locking from outside? The firm's little private Guantanamo? Is there anything legal about this?

I found Olympia's actions not really believable. Locking someone inside an office and not calling the police? Wth? Con woman or not, what if the 76years old lady had a health scare locked inside that room? I also did not like that she seemed to believe Matty in just a few hours. I would prefer if it would take Olympia a few more days of research to  believe Mattie and trust her again.
Although I am also really curious about Olympia meeting Matty's family.
As someone already posted here, maybe real Matty is quite scarier!

I dunno if Julian is the opioids guilty one. I just hope by the end of the season/series/his presence in the show he will be having a new hairstyle.
It is so bad! So bad!

[Good Queen Jane]

I am a retired family lawyer and I have to say that just about everything shown on the legal issues from the restraining order to the prenup to the annulment is totally without basis in the real world. Even the prenatal paternity test is highly unlikely (they constitute  a risk to the unborn child and how did she get rando lover’s DNA sample?) But I learned long ago that television law differs from real life law just as television medicine differs from real life medicine. Assuming that the annulment happened, Amy keeps her baby but is entitled to none of the assets of her husband. I hope she has a good support system.

By the way, Ted Kennedy got a religious annulment  not a civil one. They are two very different things.

Edited April 12 by Good Queen Jane
Because premarital is not the same as prenatal.

[SoMuchTV]

2 hours ago, Good Queen Jane said:

Even the premarital paternity test is highly unlikely (they constitute  a risk to the unborn child and how did she get rando lover’s DNA sample?)

Maybe she was able to get her husband's DNA to rule him out, leaving only one other possible father?  But even if that's how that works, we're only left with about 99 other items on the "that's not how this works!" list.  Fortunately I like the show well enough that I can let a lot of things slide.

By the way, another show I'm watching also just had a prenatal paternity test, and it just involved blood from the mother's veins, not from the fetus (plus the cheek swabs from the adults involved).

[TimsLove25]

3 hours ago, Zaffy said:

 

I found Olympia's actions not really believable. Locking someone inside an office and not calling the police? Wth? Con woman or not, what if the 76years old lady had a health scare locked inside that room? I also did not like that she seemed to believe Matty in just a few hours. I would prefer if it would take Olympia a few more days of research to  believe Mattie and trust her again.
 

 

She also is the kind of person who would go through an old lady's wallet and have her license plate traced. There's zero chance she would not have asked Julian years ago where the money came from concerning the deposit on the townhome. They are lawyers, meticulous about details. Married or not, she knew about every penny coming in or going out of her household. No way would she not question it.

All that to say, I felt Olympia was just...off this episode. I think the writers are still trying to figure out the characters and where they are going, and it shows.

Edited April 12 by TimsLove25

[Ellee]

Regarding ‘Julian being the culprit’, did anyone else find it interesting that Julian said his mother enabled him to access his trust fund in order to buy the brownstone?  
 

Do we even know if his mother and father are still married?  Could the mother have something to do with this?

[Affogato]

On 4/11/2025 at 10:17 AM, Chicago Redshirt said:

 

Also, I know it was for story purposes, but why would a rich, relatively handsome religious guy marry an atheist? What kind of crappy premarital counseling did he receive from his priest that didn't point out that might be an issue, especially if she is telling the truth that she's so much an atheist that she would never have married him if she knew how religious he was? 

I assume that is why he wanted custody of any children. So they would be raised Catholic. I also assume that it was a relationship where he felt as if he had the upper hand. But I don’t know why he wouldn’t find a nice Catholic girl to abuse. Maybe because that would be wrong, but atheist deserve whatever you can do to them?

[Percysowner]

14 minutes ago, Affogato said:

I assume that is why he wanted custody of any children. So they would be raised Catholic. I also assume that it was a relationship where he felt as if he had the upper hand. But I don’t know why he wouldn’t find a nice Catholic girl to abuse. Maybe because that would be wrong, but atheist deserve whatever you can do to them?

Abusers don't think of themselves as abusers. I'm sure he saw himself in the role of white knight who would Save Her Soul once they were married and he could show her the light. I didn't see himself as a controlling jerk, he saw himself as being right and she just didn't understand how right he was.