S02.E01: This Is War

[Nanrad]

Do we know that it's officially shorter and not just shorter for the premiere?

[HalcyonDays]

Do we know that it's officially shorter and not just shorter for the premiere?

Are you talking about the opening credits. I think shorter just for the premiere, to not lose the flow of the opening. They did the same thing for one of the episodes last season too. Personally, I would rather have truncated credits and more live-screen stuff going on.

[tennisgurl]

Very interesting stuff about historical accents and dialects! I have always found the history of regional accents to be interesting, and I would actually love for some show some day to address it!

 

Its been so long, I honestly forgot how much I love Abbey. What was said earlier was right on the money. She's tough and competent, but she's also playful and lovable and fun. It seems like "strong" female characters these days have to be tough, badass, and stoic all the time, but without any real conflict or personality. Abbey has tons of personality, and I love it! 

 

My new theory? Katrina cut the horsemans hand to get his blood on it, so she could do a spell later on. At least hopefully!

[Neurochick]

What I like about this show is it doesn't take itself seriously.

 

There will be a tense, dramatic moment, and then something bizarre will happen, like the headless horseman walking around shirtless, or Crane not knowing how to put the car in reverse and Jenny having to push him out of the way/sit on him, in order for them to get away.  

 

Also, John Noble looks like he's having fun.

[Nanrad]

I haven't seen John Noble in anything else even though I know he was in Fringe, but I don't care for his performance because he always seemed so pained to me. Is that intentional?

[ABay]

I'd like to see Jeremy/Henry have a discussion with Duke from Haven about the perils of absorbing other people's problems.

[Danny Franks]

I haven't seen John Noble in anything else even though I know he was in Fringe, but I don't care for his performance because he always seemed so pained to me. Is that intentional?

 

I never watched Fringe, but John Noble's turn as Denethor in The Return of the King certainly seemed pained, in parts. He seems to have a style that makes his characters seem awkward and uncomfortable. I can't say it doesn't work, as a way of making them unsettling for the audience. He is uncomfortable to watch, quite a lot of the time.

 

There will be a tense, dramatic moment, and then something bizarre will happen, like the headless horseman walking around shirtless, or Crane not knowing how to put the car in reverse and Jenny having to push him out of the way/sit on him, in order for them to get away.

 

 

It's a juxtaposition that works really well, because it stops the show from ever getting too grim and serious. And it undercuts the portentous and grandiose writing, to then show something completely goofy. Like the writers are in on the joke that the show is crazy, which makes it easier for the audience to enjoy unabashedly.

[lulee]

I love John Noble. I do think he has a serious-looking, down-turned face that lends itself well to a pained look/ character. But I assume much of that is a choice. Check out Fringe sometime. He has tremendous range, including being giddy and trippy.

Edited September 25, 2014 by lulee

[dubbel zout]

Not to mention heartbreaking. He was a really good addition here, I think.

[thuganomics85]

Opinions vary, but I think John Noble is great.  He's able to be kind of meek and almost funny one minute, but then bring the power and anger the next.  I enjoyed last season, when he was mainly the quite Henry "The Sin Eater" Parrish, but I'm liking the bombastic "War" he is becoming.

 

Overall, I think the cast is the main reason the show can work.  They are mostly able to sell the silliness.  The weak link is probably Katia Winter, IMO, but I just think it's hard to make a character like Katrina work.  She really isn't given much to work with.  Still, it's kind of funny that Headless easily outshines her in all of their scenes, considering he has, well, no head.

Edited September 25, 2014 by thuganomics85

[Snookums]

Shirtless Horseman was just hilarious. LOL. So what does he do all day? Take heads? Then comes home after a hard days work and changes into something more appropriate for his time with Katrina?

 

 

I did adore how the Headsman has a home life--casual wear, loaves of bread, time to himself. The best part was the emerald magiking his head back on so he could patiently mansplain about how Katrina is just a silly woman-person and doesn't know her own mind and will realize she's supposed to be with him and...I could tell Katrina was all "give me the knife. I beg you. GIVE ME THE KNIFE AGAIN PLEASE." 

 

But do you realize that the way she was tied up, she could have literally stood up from the chair and freed herself. She was not bound to the chair. She just had her arms pulled back behind the chair. ANYONE could escape that. Simply Stand Up.

 

 

 

Oh thank GOD someone else spotted that! I was watching this on On Demand and rewound that bit to confirm I wasn't nuts. Girl, you are not tied to anything! Quit being such a wet spaghetti noodle and start casting some spells!

[Snookums]

Something that kind of threw me was how Benjamin was somewhat sanitized, and yet Ichabod hated him anyway. I read years back that he had his apprentices hold the kite for him and that one of them was electrocuted to death. I don't know if the writers heard that story as well, but it adds an extra meta layer of humor to Ichabod's disdain.

 

 

That was actually his son. He didn't get fried but it didn't exactly promote a close relationship between father and son. In fact he became a staunch Loyalist and eventually moved his family back to England, and Ben Franklin died estranged from his son. Kind of sad.

 

Ben was quite the wit and skirt chaser, though, especially in France, where he was pretty much a rock star. Once he re-met a woman he'd slept with several months before but hadn't seen since. She was hurt and said "You haven't seen me all summer. I fear you no longer desire me." "Madam, nothing could be further from the truth," replied Franklin. "I've merely been waiting for the nights to get longer." Day-um. 

[bros402]

Maybe when you die you lose your powers unless you make a deal with the DARK arts. Katrina is a "good" witch.  Maybe to keep your powers after you die you have to be willing to do bad things like sacrifice people to Moloch.  Have we seen any "Good" people be powerful after death?

 

Didn't they say something at some point about the longer a good witch is away from Earth, the weaker their powers become?

 

So I have a feeling she'd be very weak in terms of power until she at the very least got a good meal in her.

[tv echo]

I also wanted to add that you can tell that everyone involved with the show has a lot of fun - from the writers to the actors.  As Neurochick said, the show doesn't take itself too seriously.  I get annoyed by shows that are pretentious.  You can just imagine the writers sitting around thinking up fun ways to incorporate American history.  Yet at the same time, the show is serious about good writing. good acting, and good production.

 

Regarding John Noble, the only problem I have with him is that I find it hard to believe that he is Ichabod's son - who I thought would be tall and skinny.

 

Regarding Katrina, I can see the pre-time traveling Ichabod falling for her.  But I have to think that Ichabod in today's world is changing and might not be the same person as he was back then.  Once they're reunited, I can see cracks in their relationship appearing.  However, they are married and, back then, divorce was not acceptable - so the only way that they would separate would be if one of them dies.  Also, I think it would be out of character for Ichabod to cheat on his wife.  I would believe in a romance between Ichabod and Abby only if Katrina died and several years went by- because he does love Katrina and would deeply mourn her death.  On The X-Files, it took several years before Mulder and Scully got together, and neither of them was married.

 

Regarding Scorpion, it got a lot of ratings help from its Big Bang Theory lead-in... which makes sense seeing as how Scorpion is basically just a dramatic, crime-solving version of BBT (bunch of genius nerds with no social skills helped by an average but attractive waitress).

Edited September 25, 2014 by tv echo

[blixie]

 

The weak link is probably Katia Winter, IMO, but I just think it's hard to make a character like Katrina work.  She really isn't given much to work with.  Still, it's kind of funny that Headless easily outshines her in all of their scenes, considering he has, well, no head.

 

Heh that's because he's been given more POV than Katrina, every single character has been. They let her have ONE line this episode (I'm not afraid of you - even though she's cowering for most of the scene), then he monologues at her, she knifes him and then she's caught and tied up again. Winter isn't great, but the writers are to blame for Katrina being a useless character, that no one really knows much less can care about.

[RedHerring]

I thought it was a pretty solid episode overall.

 

Even though, for the first few minutes of the show I kept re-checking the episode description and I was really confused and thought that the DVR had started to record halfway through or maybe I'd somehow missed the first episode.  

 

I think some of my favorite moments are Ichabod with technology.  So I loved how he recorded his goodbye message then realized he'd never been recording in the first place.

 

My biggest worry about this season is the increased episode order.  I hope the show can hold onto what makes it good while making 20+ episodes a season.

Edited September 25, 2014 by RedHerring

[dubbel zout]

Regarding John Noble, the only problem I have with him is that I find it hard to believe that he is Ichabod's son - who I thought would be tall and skinny.

 

Henry is no spring chicken. (Meaning he might have been skinny as a younger man.) Per IMDB, John Noble is 5'11-3/4", which makes me think he's more like 5'10". But Tom Mison is only 6'1", tallish but not especially tall.

Edited September 25, 2014 by dubbel zout

[DearEvette]

Ok, so on rewatch, I notice that when Henry gives Jenny the adrenaline shot in the warehouse, he mentions "you sister and my father."  In true Jenny fashion she doesn't blink because, well, a Bad Ass wouldn't give away anything. 

 

But Jenny hadn't been privy to the fact that Henry was Jeremy and thus Ichabod's son.  That reveal happened after Abbie was already in Purgatory and Jennie was trying (unsuccessfully) to contact them to let them know Henry was not on their side.

 

I just thought it was odd, even in the parameters of Sleepy Hollow's Batshittery, that it was presented as fact that she'd be aware of this and even being shown later by even a look of surprise that this was a weird development. I mean, we all freaked out when we found out.

[DeepRunner]

The season premiere was the first time I have watched an episode of Sleepy Hollow. John Noble's character Henry is absolute evil. (If you have seen me in these parts before, you know I am a big Fringe fan, and John Noble is a big reason why.) Liked the interplay between Ichabod and Abbie.

 

Looking forward to future episodes.

[fantique]

I haven't seen John Noble in anything else even though I know he was in Fringe, but I don't care for his performance because he always seemed so pained to me. Is that intentional?

I think it was, I mean the man buried his son and lost everything that was dear to him. But he also had a lot of tender moments and funny ones where he was high. I think that one of the greatest things about John Noble's acting is that he creates great reactions from the people he is in a scene with. But I guess to each their own.

 

My biggest worry about this season is the increased episode order.  I hope the show can hold onto what makes it good while making 20+ episodes a season.

I don't think you have to worry about that the new season is only 18 episodes.

 

I found this series premiere delightful!!!!! For all the reasons mentioned above. I just absolutely love how spiteful Crane is regarding Franklin... It's hilarious.

I liked Abbie and Nicole's delivery last season because it was so just straight up "well this is crazy, I might as well just enjoy it" and I love that Nicole has relaxed more into the role and is having even more fun with the situations her character finds herself in. She is becoming more and more of a smartarse as well which I enjoy.

 

I just missed this show and enjoyed it immensely. Monday nights are looking up.

Edited September 25, 2014 by fantique

[EAV]

I have a question. I'm putting it out there because I wonder if I missed something...

 

Are there 2 emerald necklaces?

 

At the end of "Indispensable Man", Ichabod was contemplating it in his hands right before he got up to redraw the map of Purgatory.

In "This Is War", Headless/Abraham put it around Katrina's neck.

Edited September 26, 2014 by EAV

[HalcyonDays]

I have a question. I'm putting it out there because I wonder if I missed something...

 

Are there 2 emerald necklaces?

 

At the end of "Indispensable Man", Ichabod was contemplating it in his hands right before he got up to redraw the map of Purgatory.

In "This Is War", Headless/Abraham put it around Katrina's neck.

 

Oh, that's a good one! I was wondering how Headless got the necklace. There must be two. Ichabod still has the original one. The second one was created by Headless or Moloch or whoever and inbued with magical powers so that Katrina can see Headless as Abraham and actually talk to him. A bit of a slap in the face, reminder to her that Abraham is the one who bought her that necklace, but also that Crane picked it out.

[Ankai]

That is what I have read to - but the reverse. That the older English accent was more like the American, and the Brits changed theirs to distinguish themselves from the Americans and just to be different. From Wikipedia: Studies on historical usage of English in the United States and the United Kingdom suggest that spoken American English did not simply evolve from British English, but rather retained many archaic features British English has since lost.

Well, then the next time an English person tells me that they invented the language, I can tell him to go screw himself. 

[Tabbyclaw]

The best part was the emerald magiking his head back on so he could patiently mansplain about how Katrina is just a silly woman-person and doesn't know her own mind and will realize she's supposed to be with him and...I could tell Katrina was all "give me the knife. I beg you. GIVE ME THE KNIFE AGAIN PLEASE."

 

Between him and Andy, I appreciate this show's awareness that demons are far less icky than creepy possessive guys.

 

The reunions were the best part of this episode for me. Very little in this televisual world that I love more than happy hugs, especially platonic male/female ones. Rest of the episode didn't really enthrall me the way the first season did, but I think that was more on me and my sleep deprivation lately than the show. I'm still totally on board for the upcoming season.

[Indi]

I have a question. I'm putting it out there because I wonder if I missed something...

 

Are there 2 emerald necklaces?

 

At the end of "Indispensable Man", Ichabod was contemplating it in his hands right before he got up to redraw the map of Purgatory.

In "This Is War", Headless/Abraham put it around Katrina's neck.

 

It could be a continuity error. There was another one with Ichabod's smartphone. He didn't have one in the finale. The one he was buried with was Abbie's and yet the number that showed up to Jenny in this episode was "Ichabod".

[Julia]

Well, then the next time an English person tells me that they invented the language, I can tell him to go screw himself.

"The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don’t just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary." — James D. Nicoll

Edited September 26, 2014 by Julia

[DearEvette]

It could be a continuity error. There was another one with Ichabod's smartphone. He didn't have one in the finale. The one he was buried with was Abbie's and yet the number that showed up to Jenny in this episode was "Ichabod".

 

Yup.  I noticed this.  He borrowed Abbie's phone in the penultimate episode.  But at the beginning of the finale he had his 'obsolete' flip phone back.

[Crackedmuse]

Yup.  I noticed this.  He borrowed Abbie's phone in the penultimate episode.  But at the beginning of the finale he had his 'obsolete' flip phone back.

 

Exactly. Abbie clearly had the phone when she used the compass app to locate the gateway to Purgatory.  I think initially they wanted to show the "obsolete" tech saving the day in some way the smartphone could not. (Maybe battery life if nothing else). But when it came time to write the script they had the idea for the farewell video and you really need a large screen for that to play effectively on TV.  These kinds of things will always happen.  No big deal.  But yes, Jenny's phone should have said "Abbie calling."

 

Ichabod not knowing how to reverse was also a bit wonky, given that he had to put it in Drive just to move it and it was in Park when Jenny took the wheel. So if he figured that out in a split second, I don't think he'd have trouble determining what "R" meant.  But they needed the "must learn to drive" line (I assume) for a future driving lesson episode, so it was all good.

[caprice]

Abby has one hell of a backhand, I must say.

While I know I've seen the whole, "He said such-and-such,where you always say this-and-that," I thought this was done well. The focus on Abby's face when she realized that Crane wasn't her Crane was beautiful.

[dubbel zout]

Do we know that it's officially shorter and not just shorter for the premiere?

Are you talking about the opening credits. I think shorter just for the premiere, to not lose the flow of the opening. They did the same thing for one of the episodes last season too. Personally, I would rather have truncated credits and more live-screen stuff going on.

 

I'm pretty sure they adjust the length of the credits whenever necessary. In other words, if the show itself runs a bit long, we get shorter credits; if it runs short, we get the longer sequence. This happens with a lot of shows. It's a timing issue, nothing more.

Edited September 26, 2014 by dubbel zout

[LeeLeePanda]

Did anyone else notice the clip of Ichabod driving a car in the beginning of the episode? It was during the Previousy in Sleepy Hollow segment. There were a few other things from episodes that haven't aired yet there.

[DearEvette]

Yup there were a few things they did in the 'previouslies' that hadn't happened yet.  There was one of Abbie underwater with Ichabod reaching out to her.  Of course it makes me wonder about the time jump fake-out.  Will we really get some version of that as reality at the end of the season?

[SouthernGal]

Any thoughts (since this was mentioned upthread too) on why Andy told Abbie that Katrina communicated with Crane and Abbie through Moloch’s mirror?  All of us who watched season 1 knew this wasn’t true.  The times that Katrina pulled Crane into purgatory, they were shown outside among trees (even once showing the other souls in purgatory).  When Katrina pulled Abbie into the house that was an echo (in “The Sin Eater”) it was because she couldn’t reach Crane, her vision was blocked.  What the heck? 

 

Did the writers need Abbie to reach Crane and this explanation was the easiest or did they want to show that Katrina didn’t have any powers at all while she was in purgatory?  Moloch obviously heard what was said between Abbie and Crane, since Fake! Ichabod showed up when Abbie was searching for the amulet behind the church.

 

Thoughts or speculation?

[HalcyonDays]

Did anyone else notice the clip of Ichabod driving a car in the beginning of the episode? It was during the Previousy in Sleepy Hollow segment. There were a few other things from episodes that haven't aired yet there.

Yeah, I noticed that in the second viewing - I think it's from the next episode. He's learning to drive a car with Abbie and says that "they need their own Horseman." Very excited  - should be a good scene. Hopefully a good funny one.

 

Yup there were a few things they did in the 'previouslies' that hadn't happened yet.  There was one of Abbie underwater with Ichabod reaching out to her.  Of course it makes me wonder about the time jump fake-out.  Will we really get some version of that as reality at the end of the season?

 

No, I think they just added clips from the next episode also. I doubt they will focus or show other things that happened during the time jump. I think it's more that Henry planted the idea in their heads that one year has passed, but it really didn't. They think so, but like Ichabod said, they can't remember any details. Kind of like deja vu - you swore you did something, but it never really happened. Of course with this show, you never know

Did the writers need Abbie to reach Crane and this explanation was the easiest or did they want to show that Katrina didn’t have any powers at all while she was in purgatory?  Moloch obviously heard what was said between Abbie and Crane, since Fake! Ichabod showed up when Abbie was searching for the amulet behind the church.

 

Thoughts or speculation?

Honestly, I thought it was just an easy explanation to get those two together to talk and hug. There is some evidence that the first episode changed a bit. There was some background pictures of Crane (well, his double) in the dollhouse, Andy driving into the middle of a Revolutionary War battle in a cop car and helping Crane, a bunch of zombie soldiers and Crane fighting off some of the zombies. That may pop up in the next episode possibly or was cut all together. Who knows.

 

I think they are just changing things to suit to new narrative. I mean, Katrina was supposed to be using magic to communicate, but now we find out it's through a mirror. So, when Abbie and Crane talk, it's the actual lair, but when Moloch and Katrina communicated, they both "changed" the background appearance of where Abbie or Crane are. Which is weird but most likely a retconn.

 

Fake Ichabod is a bit strange because he knows almost everything going on, except how to pronounce Lieutenant. I can see Moloch listening and allowing the conversation to happen, so that Crane comes back for Abbie with the key to Purgatory, so that Fake!Crane can get said key, Except, if he's listening, then his demon should know how to pronounce Lieutenant. I did get such a kick out of that scene, and also liked when Abbie mentioned Katrina, Fake!Crane looked a bit confused like he didn't quite know what she was talking about.

 

It's convenient plot points I guess - like how no one - NO ONE - told poor Ichabod anything about demon fighting or whatever in the 18th century. They fed him information and basically waited for him to put together the bits and pieces of information to assist in demon fighting in the 21st century.

[DearEvette]

It's convenient plot points I guess - like how no one - NO ONE - told poor Ichabod anything about demon fighting or whatever in the 18th century. They fed him information and basically waited for him to put together the bits and pieces of information to assist in demon fighting in the 21st century.

 

 

I head canon that everybody but Ichabod knew he was a Witness  -- Washington, Katrina, The Right Reverend Knapp, etc -- and they were prepping him for his destiny and he was starting to put stuff together, but he got killed before they could really tell him anything.  I think they tried to get him info via the Masons, but we saw how that turned out. 

 

Regarding Katrina, it is so difficult to speculate about her at all because even though she was present all last season, she was basically just a plot device and a mode of delivering exposition.  Because she has been presented as so many things -- Quaker! Spy! Witch! Freedom Fighter! and she's been in purgatory for over 200 years -- they could literally write her any way they please at this point and it would not necessarily contradict anything that has gone before. 

 

She can be written just as she looks on the surface, a loving wife who wants to help her husband and his witness partner stop the Apocalypse. Which would be so boring!  Or is she something else?  I mean, 200 years in a very twisted place are unaccounted for.  A lot could have happened then.

[HalcyonDays]

I head canon that everybody but Ichabod knew he was a Witness  -- Washington, Katrina, The Right Reverend Knapp, etc -- and they were prepping him for his destiny and he was starting to put stuff together, but he got killed before they could really tell him anything.  I think they tried to get him info via the Masons, but we saw how that turned out. 

 

Regarding Katrina, it is so difficult to speculate about her at all because even though she was present all last season, she was basically just a plot device and a mode of delivering exposition.  Because she has been presented as so many things -- Quaker! Spy! Witch! Freedom Fighter! and she's been in purgatory for over 200 years -- they could literally write her any way they please at this point and it would not necessarily contradict anything that has gone before. 

 

She can be written just as she looks on the surface, a loving wife who wants to help her husband and his witness partner stop the Apocalypse. Which would be so boring!  Or is she something else?  I mean, 200 years in a very twisted place are unaccounted for.  A lot could have happened then.

 

That is what is so weird about the way the show hides stuff from Crane. I mean, I can see if the people around him were like "Well, I don't think Ichabod can handle the information that he is a Witness, etc" - some people cannot. But Katrina withholding that she is a witch - it's not like Ichabod would go around demanding that she would be burned at the stake. Hell, he saw demons and strangeness before he died. On top of that, HE was the one to convince Abbie that she was a biblical witness, not the other way around. He is an easy believer. So the fact that everyone lied to him and withheld information is just strange.

 

But most likely it was for plot - just like the only person who has ever been completely open and completely honest and truthful is Abbie. I don't know if the lack of information from others is deliberate, but the openess and honestly from Abbie is I think. And it provides a huge contrast to Katrina and her shady information-hiding ways. Of course I could see another retcomm where she was told NOT to tell him anything, even while in Purgatory, which would be strange.

 

I mean, so much difference between when Katrina contacts Ichabod from Purgatory - she cries, looks sad and shies away from saying anything. Now granted, it is for plot, I know. If she did, half of season 1 would not need to occur (you know, Hey Ichabod my love, I had a son and Abraham is the Horseman of Death and oh, BTW, to get me out, someone needs to take my place...). Now contrast that to Abbie - she summons him to Purgatory and tells him flat out everything right away.

 

Right now, Katrina is written as plot device and from the previews of the next episode, again seems so incapable. It is really sad, actually. (But I still prefer Ichabod and Abbie together, and scenes with just Ichabod and Jenny. All are wonderful)

[sinkwriter]

I'm a little bummed about the Katrina reveal from the beginning. I knew it was probably some sort of flash forward or hallucination that they had escaped their "prisons" but a little part of me perked up when Crane screamed, "HE KILLED MY WIFE!" I thought, Really??!? I don't hate the Katrina character, nor do I want her out of the way so that Crane and Abbie can be together; I just find her kind of dull and I feel her role seems to slow down the action and the focus where I want it (on Crane and Abbie as the main relationship/partnership/friendship of the show). So I was kind of glad to hear she was dead. I thought, Great, they've skipped on to get to bigger and better, more interesting avenues! Skipping over the potential emotional suckage that Crane mourning his wife might create. To find that she's actually alive was a bit of a disappointment in the end.

 

Very glad that Jenny's okay, though! She's a bad-ass and I like her character. I would have been ticked if she'd been killed off off-screen.

[sinkwriter]

I thought that emerald necklace had been magicked so that it would turn Katrina evil. But no, apparently not. Well, the jury's still out, right? Here's hoping for evil. It could make her actually interesting, give her something to do.

Edited September 28, 2014 by sinkwriter

[Indi]

But most likely it was for plot - just like the only person who has ever been completely open and completely honest and truthful is Abbie. I don't know if the lack of information from others is deliberate, but the openess and honestly from Abbie is I think. And it provides a huge contrast to Katrina and her shady information-hiding ways. 

 

Does it matter though? I don't think so. At least not to the characters in the show. Other than the secret about Jeremy, he hasn't showed he cares about any of Katrina's lies. He doesn't care his friends, the Founding Fathers, also lied to him, so it's not like he's the kind of person, who'd value Abbie's honesty. Anyway, the whole thing with Katrina lying was just a poorly written meaningless red herring, so I hope they don't bring it back to justify more boring manpain.

 

I knew it was probably some sort of flash forward or hallucination that they had escaped their "prisons" but a little part of me perked up when Crane screamed, "HE KILLED MY WIFE!"

 

And he screamed that to her face, as if he was blaming that on her. That's the Ichabod I know and not the rewritten hero, who saved himself and the Mills sisters. I hope next time he disrespects her again, she slaps him even sillier than he already is.

[Elsinore]

re: necklace

 

Pretty sure there's only one. And that pricy necklaces weren't made in bulk back then.

 

re: Katrina / Katia Winter

 

I like Katrina. I have no issues with the actress. There's potential there, if the writers would choose to use it. I think Katrina would also adapt better to the 21st century then Crane (initially) did. I also think that Katrina sort kind of knows that his love isn't so ehm, devoted anymore. In the season finale she gave Abbie and Ichabod this look like "oh, it's like that, is it?" when they were hugging.

 

Am looking forward to Katrina adapting to the modern times. Because while it's okay for Ichabod to run around in his heavy 18th century gear and who is able to buy new pieces, I doubt hoop skirts and bonnets are that liberally available anymore.

 

Cracked up theory question:

 

If Abraham was altered into the Headless Horseman unknowingly (far as I can remember), can he be changed back?

[mertensia]

Appalachian English = Elizabethan English is a long-standing myth but it is just a myth.

[lucindabelle]

I remember on he he story of English on TV they talked about elizabe an English on some islands i think off Massachusetts.

Actually the Appalachian is a theory, not a myth, here's a link to academic article:

http://lrc.ohio.edu/lrcmedia/Streaming/lingCALL/ling270/myth9.pdf

Edited September 28, 2014 by lucindabelle

[HalcyonDays]

re: necklace

 

Pretty sure there's only one. And that pricy necklaces weren't made in bulk back then.

 

re: Katrina / Katia Winter

 

I like Katrina. I have no issues with the actress. There's potential there, if the writers would choose to use it. I think Katrina would also adapt better to the 21st century then Crane (initially) did. I also think that Katrina sort kind of knows that his love isn't so ehm, devoted anymore. In the season finale she gave Abbie and Ichabod this look like "oh, it's like that, is it?" when they were hugging.

 

Am looking forward to Katrina adapting to the modern times. Because while it's okay for Ichabod to run around in his heavy 18th century gear and who is able to buy new pieces, I doubt hoop skirts and bonnets are that liberally available anymore.

 

Cracked up theory question:

 

If Abraham was altered into the Headless Horseman unknowingly (far as I can remember), can he be changed back?

 

But then how did Headless/Abraham get the necklace? The last time we saw it, Ichabod was holding it before he redrew the map. Unless he broke into the cabin and stole it. I think it's a second one that's been enchanted.

 

My problem with Katrina is she was always a plot device with no substance. They tell us about this wonderful love, but no showing and there is no chemistry between the actors (and Mison has chemistry with everything, including Golems). I think Ichabod may be in love with the idea of Katrina. It's exactly like the "perfect romance." but seems hollow. In fact, I do remember in one of Crane's monologues, where he said "I will not take her for granted anymore." I thought that an interesting line to include.

 

I think she will too adjust much easier than Crane. She's not as stubborn, which will be fun. I originally wanted her evil, because it would be so much fun, but since that's off the table (shame), give her some abilities. She's a witch - well, do witchy things. But don't take away from my Abbie and Ichabod.

 

I think that's an excellent question - can he be changed back? Like, if he reunites with his head to become a whole human, but then somehow rejects evil/Moloch, then somehow loses his Horseman status and becomes a mere mortal again. I mean, if on the show they can take a dying man and turn him into the Horseman, they should be able to take those powers away. Interesting.

[sinkwriter]

 

And he screamed that ["HE KILLED MY WIFE!"] to her face, as if he was blaming that on her. That's the Ichabod I know and not the rewritten hero

 

I didn't see him as disrespecting Abbie in that moment. I saw it as him finally letting out what he'd been holding in. (Even though it turns out the whole thing wasn't real) she kept trying to get him to talk about it and he refused, trying to be all stalwart, but in that moment he finally exploded with this terrible thing that had been torturing him. The way I saw the moment, Crane looked surprised at himself, like he'd never raised his voice in such a way (and certainly not to a woman) about anything like that, it's not dignified. He seemed surprised at the depth of emotion that had come out of himself, like he'd never tapped into expressing his most gut-wrenching pain before. I thought it was fascinating.

Edited September 28, 2014 by sinkwriter

[catrox14]

 

And he screamed that to her face, as if he was blaming that on her. That's the Ichabod I know and not the rewritten hero, who saved himself and the Mills sisters. I hope next time he disrespects her again, she slaps him even sillier than he already is.

 

Ichabod is essentially the same surly, grumpy, annoyed, smart, funny, and not-really-the-nicest-guy-the-room-Ichabod as he ever was. He has always been edgy, and irritable and that makes sense considering he woke up in a new century with everything changed. But that does not make him any less heroic. A character can act like a jerk and be heroic at the same time. (See also: The Winchester Brothers and Han Solo).  That's how I see Ichabod.  Abbie has had her moments of being surly, and grumpy and frustrated with Ichabod or just taking out her frustrations on her best friend, too. There is plenty of give and take between these two IMO. And most importantly they have alternately saved each others lives.  Both are heroes. 

 

I don't think he was disrespectful towards Abbie. In that moment, Ichabod was supposedly grieving his dead wife and had been holding in the grief. In that moment, he exploded and screamed at his best friend as you do in life.  He seemed shocked by his own outburst but it's not as though there was not precedent for him to enraged considering the rage he had last season when he went to town on the Tree Monster.  I thought it was a very believable exchange that happens between best friends.   Was it great? No, but it wasn't disrespectful IMO. 

Edited September 28, 2014 by catrox14

[DearEvette]

Does it matter though? I don't think so. At least not to the characters in the show. Other than the secret about Jeremy, he hasn't showed he cares about any of Katrina's lies. He doesn't care his friends, the Founding Fathers, also lied to him, so it's not like he's the kind of person, who'd value Abbie's honesty. Anyway, the whole thing with Katrina lying was just a poorly written meaningless red herring, so I hope they don't bring it back to justify more boring manpain.

He hasn't had time to care, not the same thing as not caring.  He's been so busy adjusting to his role as Witness, dodging Demons-of-the-week and trying to get Katrina out of Purgatory he simply didn't have the luxury to wallow on that.  But according to Goffman et. al, Katrina's less that forthcoming ways will be an issue for him in upcoming episodes.  I too hope it doesn't become an isue of him going into a Woobie melt-down.  But I do think it would be odd to have all her lies of omission hand waved away especially given how they've tried to position the Cranes as Love's Young Dream.

 

Re the necklace:  I agree with @HalcyonDays, think it is a duplicate that Abraham had re-done for her.  Which begs the question?  Why did Ichabod have it still?  I mean, it was a gift from Abraham (yeah, Ichy picked it out, but still it was bought by Abe), why would Katrina hold onto it after she kicked Ol' Abe to the curb?

 

re: Katrina/Katia:  Katrina's character is an underwritten mess.  She is elevated to importance in the overall scheme of things because of who she is (Ichabod's wife) not because of anything she has done.  Frankly, she has not earned my liking either from a character standpoint or an acting standpoint.  She's just there.  In a very real way, Katrina is the very thing Nicole Beharie said that she is glad Abbie isn't --- a woman character largely defined by her romantic entanglement.  Because truly, up to this point the only reason to actually care about Katrina is in her role as Ichabod's wife. 

 

If the writers really want her to carve out her own place in the group -- the way Ichabod, Abbie, Irving, Jenny, and yes, even John Cho, has -- then they need to make her viable as her own person.  The chemsitry of the group so far is really good.  I am a bit nervous about her inclusion because for the life of me I can't see what she really does bring to the table? My fear is that in trying to shoe-horn her into the group dynamic it dulls the impact of the Abbie/Ichabod dynamic.  Which would be catastrophic since they are the fulcrum by which the show turns.  I can only hope the writers do have something for her that doesn'ts mess up Ab/Ich and that Katia can rise to the acting challenge.  So far we have very little to judge her and it is difficult to know if the woodeness she sometimes displays is because of the writing or because of the acting. 

[salaydouk]

Loved the episode... Got delayed in posting this one minor nitpick... At top of episode Abby says Crane is 251 years old.... Hmm that math don't computer... I am a Bicentennial baby therefore always know the age of the US, and it is currently 238 years? So if

Crane is 251 it means he would have been 13 when the Revolution started in 1776( and yes I know some will say the war started in 1775) and then 20 when the war ended. Furthermore, it has already been stated he organized the Boston Tea Party which took place in 1773.. So then he would have been 10. So basically Crane has to be at least 261 years old! :)

[Watermelon]

A quick glance at wikipedia says Ichabod died in 1781. If, in 2014 he turns 251, he was born in 1763.  This puts him at 18/19 at the time of his death, which can't possibly be correct.

[salaydouk]

Watermelon completely agree! I think the writers liked the idea of Abby saying Two Hundred and FIFTY one... Like when we say the more normal "you are Fifty" years old.... And did not stop to think that's it causes an actual age issue!

[bros402]

I remember on he he story of English on TV they talked about elizabe an English on some islands i think off Massachusetts.

Actually the Appalachian is a theory, not a myth, here's a link to academic article:

http://lrc.ohio.edu/lrcmedia/Streaming/lingCALL/ling270/myth9.pdf

 

I believe there is a place in Virginia - I believe it is a small island off of Virginia, where they speak with a Revolutionary War-era dialect/accent.

 

Forget the name of the island/town - it has a genetic disorder named after it, though.