S04.E02: Sam’s Dad

[Neptune]

“Sam’s Dad” – When Sam’s dad (Dean Norris) comes to Woodstone for a visit, Patience (Mary Holland) puts their father-daughter relationship to the test. Also, Isaac must deal with the fallout from his breakup with Nigel and Thor and Flower handle an awkward situation with Nancy. Oct. 24

WRITTEN BY: Josh Malmuth

DIRECTED BY: Richie Keen

[Neptune]

https://www.tvinsider.com/gallery/ghosts-season-4-dean-norris-sams-dad-photos/#2

[Neptune]

 

[Neptune]

 

[Neptune]

https://bleedingcool.com/tv/ghosts-season-4-clips-preview-dean-norris-as-sams-dad-more/

[AnimeMania]

Melinda McGraw as Sam’s father's new girlfriend

Dean Norris as Frank, Sam’s father

[chitowngirl]

What’s up with Pete and “daddy”?
 

Patience is so weird, in such a fun way!

[ams1001]

"Benedict Arnold...was quite trustworthy." 😆

 

6 minutes ago, chitowngirl said:

What’s up with Pete and “daddy”?

I feel like he's recent enough to get how that sounds...

 

[phalange]

Patience can make the walls bleed. That’s honestly a pretty cool ghost power. I bet it’ll come in handy somewhere down the line when the ghosts need to communicate with Jay.

Isaac really has a way to go with the whole being a better person thing, though offering to move to the shed was a start.

Pete innocently trying to get Sam to call him daddy was hilarious. 

[ams1001]

3 minutes ago, phalange said:

Patience can make the walls bleed. That’s honestly a pretty cool ghost power. I bet it’ll come in handy somewhere down the line when the ghosts need to communicate with Jay.

They need to put up a white board or something that can be easily washed off.

[kathyk2]

3 minutes ago, phalange said:

Patience can make the walls bleed. That’s honestly a pretty cool ghost power. I bet it’ll come in handy somewhere down the line when the ghosts need to communicate with Jay.

Isaac really has a way to go with the whole being a better person thing, though offering to move to the shed was a start.

Pete innocently trying to get Sam to call him daddy was hilarious. 

Pete was being inappropriate not innocent. Patience isn't going to be happy living in a modern home. The theme of this episode was good communication Thor Flower and Nancy was funny. I don't trust Sam's Dad he blamed his former wife when she isn't here to defend herself.

[Skooma]

Scapeghosting, lol.

Nancy: "You are suppose to shoot the messenger!"

Huzzah, Issac is a better person!  Tell his pal Benedict Arnold the good news.

(Footnote: Until his betrayal, Benedict Arnold was actually the most competent general in the Continental Army and was the hero of the Battle of Saratoga.  It was in part for the lack of appreciation for his many contributions that pushed him and his ego over to the act of betrayal).

 

4 minutes ago, kathyk2 said:

I don't trust Sam's Dad he blamed his former wife when she isn't here to defend herself.

I think he told the truth.  That's why the writer's put this in the episode.

Edited October 25 by Skooma

[Browncoat]

I knew Isaac wouldn't last long in the shed, but I really thought it would be because he missed his creature comforts, like a bed and TV, not because the shed ghosts didn't want him there.  No sign of Pete's wife in the shed, either. 

Patience's ghost power is a really good one!  But Patience herself is going to wear really thin really quickly, I'm afraid.

[kathyk2]

1 minute ago, Skooma said:

Scapeghosting, lol.

Nancy: "You are suppose to shoot the messenger!"

Huzzah, Issac is a better person!  Tell his pal, Benedict Arnold the good news.

(Footnote: Until his betrayal, Benedict Arnold was actually the most competent general in the Continental Army and was the hero of the Battle of Saratoga.  It was in part for the lack of appreciation for his many contributions that pushed him and his ego over to the act of betrayal).

I think he told the truth.  That's why the writer's put this in the episode.

I don't think so Why did it take four years for him to visit Sam? His former wife is dead he can't use her as an excuse. 

[incandescent]

Bleeding walls is such a perfect ghost power for someone who died of bloodletting.

[appositival]

Well, now they know that they have to lie to Patience about unmarried guests, so I assume this problem is mostly solved. I'm still hoping that Patience 'falls' back into the well, or moves back to her cave.

[Annber03]

17 minutes ago, Browncoat said:

I knew Isaac wouldn't last long in the shed, but I really thought it would be because he missed his creature comforts, like a bed and TV, not because the shed ghosts didn't want him there.  

Yeah, I'm kind of sad we won't get to actually see Isaac spending some time in the shed for a few episodes, that could've ben a kick. But from that little snippet of how Jenkins and Baxter reacted to him being there...I'm also not surprised he wouldn't last long :p.

But still. Yes. The interaction between Isaac and NIgel tonight gave me some hope - Isaac couldn't bear to bring himself to ask Nigel to leave (the look on his face when Nigel was talking about why he liked living in the mansion), and Nigel can see that Isaac is trying, at least a little bit, to be a better person. And they're actually talking again, and being civil and respectful. It's a start, I'll take it :). I did love the whole Throw Momma from the Train plot with them that Trevor suggested, though. And Nancy! She's got a hell of a grip XD!

(Also, damn, Isaac just roasting Trevor's "T-Money" nicname tonight :p!)

Patience's power is indeed very cool. And creepy. And apparently tasty, if the girlfriend eating it is any indication :p. For the briefest of monents I wondered if Isaac would somehow wind up sharing a room with Patience - that could be some good payback for him in and of itself :p. 

But yeah, given the others' reactions to her behavior and words this episode, it'll be interesting to see how long she stays in the house. Maybe she'll eventually find herself in the shed and that can be the catalyst for Nigel moving back into the mansion, depending on how he and Isaac work things out. 

The whole running thing with Pete trying to get Sam to call him "daddy" was...something :p. I am glad that Sam and her dad were able to work some stuff out - I could honestly see her mom kinda painting her dad in a bad light - unfortunately it's what parents often do after a divorce. And Sam's mom was a rather critical sort, that was a big issue between her and Sam, so I can see her haivng some OPINIONS about Sam's dad and maybe spinning things, if only so her daughter doesn't hate or bame her for the divorce. Sam's Woodstone family line is on her mom's side, isn't it? 'Cause we've seen how that family history can be. 

That said, the point about her mom being dead and unable to defend herself is also a very good one, and while I can sympathze with the hesitancy to try and reach out after so long, well...

Edited October 25 by Annber03

[baldryanr]

4 minutes ago, kathyk2 said:

I don't think so Why did it take four years for him to visit Sam? His former wife is dead he can't use her as an excuse. 

Wasn't that addressed in the episode?  Things were strained for years and he didn't feel comfortable reaching out.  Yes, we can all get on our high horse and say he was a gutless coward for staying estranged from his daughter for no good reason, but that doesn't mean he was lying about Sam's mom telling him to stay away.  It's not like every divorce is amicable.

[shura]

I’ve got to say, if someone tells me he recently became conservative and doesn’t want me living in sin, and then I wake up and see the word “sin” written in blood on the wall?  I’m blaming that guy!  Sam’s dad is different, apparently.  Not even a stare in Jay’s direction.

So, Patience’s power means she can move physical objects just like Trevor, right?  That’s what she is doing spreading blood on the wall.  Or maybe it’s somehow specific to the blood she generated out of nowhere?  Kind of surprised Patience knows how to write, I didn’t think it was that common for a Puritan woman.

Also surprising that Isaac doesn’t know about Benedict Arnold.  How did it never come up?  The ghosts had over a century to kill and they just talked about cod?  Speaking of Benedict Arnold, you know who else has been feeling unappreciated?  One Captain Isaac Higgintoot…

39 minutes ago, phalange said:

Isaac really has a way to go with the whole being a better person thing, though offering to move to the shed was a start.

A start?  It was a hero move!

What’s with plugging Prime?  The show needs product placement money?  
 

Edited October 25 by shura

[ams1001]

28 minutes ago, shura said:

 Kind of surprised Patience knows how to write, I didn’t think it was that common for a Puritan woman.

I just googled briefly and found: "Most Puritan women, like men, were literate, because of the Puritan emphasis upon reading scripture in the home."

[PaulE]

11 minutes ago, shura said:

Kind of surprised Patience knows how to write, I didn’t think it was that common for a Puritan woman.

Actually, Puritan households were fairly literate--after all, reading the Bible was very important to them, women as well as men.  Girls would have embroidered samplers that often included the alphabet and religious or moralizing verses.  And Puritans founded Harvard, the first university in the North American colonies (though admittedly it was open only to men).  They weren't at all like some of the science-denying, anti-education fundamentalists of our own day, though I think people tend to conflate the two.

I hope Patience learns to lighten up a bit after living with the other ghosts--she's hard to take.

Poor Isaac--it's still all about him, though I'll give him credit for trying.  When he was blathering on in the shed, I could imagine Baxter and Jenkins thinking about suicide except they're already dead.  I did feel for Nigel, and was glad he went back to the shed voluntarily instead of being evicted.  It's the deepest glimpse we've had so far into his character, especially when he talked about how his feelings about the mansion ghosts had changed and he now considered them family.  Even though he's no longer living in the house, I hope the writers continue to provide story lines for him.  I was sad to see him go.  We've talked about wanting to see him interact more with the other ghosts so maybe that will happen this season now that we know he's emotionally invested in them.  But for right now, that man needs a ghost puppy or something--he's pretty forlorn.

I, too, thought Sam's dad would accuse Jay of writing "SIN" on the wall--and I was half-expecting Sam to pin it on him, since she'd already pushed him off the cliff to begin with.  One of these days, Sam . . .

  

[shura]

52 minutes ago, ams1001 said:

I just googled briefly and found: "Most Puritan women, like men, were literate, because of the Puritan emphasis upon reading scripture in the home."

28 minutes ago, PaulE said:

Actually, Puritan households were fairly literate--after all, reading the Bible was very important to them, women as well as men.

There is a living history museum in Massachusetts called Plimoth Plantation.  It is set up as a Pilgrim colony settlement around 1640, I believe.  There are actors in character there, they interact with you as if they are really living in that time.  It is tremendous, a mind blowing experience, if you haven’t been - I highly recommend it.  Anyway, I asked one of the “Pilgrim women” specifically about school and reading and such.  The answer I got was “well, we don’t really need to read. Yes, there is the Bible, but that is the last thing we want to read for ourselves.  What if we misunderstand it?  What if we get the wrong idea?  That would be really bad.  No, it is really better to leave it to the minister to explain to us what we need to know and understand.”  I guess I don’t know for a fact that what they tell you there is historically accurate, I would assume it should be, but who knows.  It is an interesting thought though about the dangers of reading scripture on your own.

Edited October 25 by shura

[PaulE]

7 minutes ago, shura said:

There is a living history museum in Massachusetts called Plimoth Plantation.  It is set up as a Pilgrim colony settlement around 1640, I believe.  There are actors in character there, they interact with you as if they are really living in that time.  It is tremendous, a mind blowing experience, if you haven’t been - I highly recommend it.  Anyway, I asked one of the “Pilgrim women” specifically about school and reading and such.  The answer I got was “well, we don’t really need to read. Yes, there is the Bible, but that is the last thing we want to read for ourselves.  What if we misunderstand it?  What if we get the wrong idea?  That would be really bad.  No, it is really better to leave it to the minister to explain to us what we need to know and understand.”  I guess I don’t know for a fact that what they tell you there is historically accurate, I would assume it should be, but who knows.  It is an interesting thought though about the dangers of reading scripture on your own.

I've been there and it's great, though how the actors stay in character for so many hours I can't imagine.  They also have to be prepared to handle any anachronisms thrown at them by the visitors.  I remember when I was there one woman asked if she could take a picture of this particular actor and she responded with something like, "Why would you take my pitcher?  Then I'll have nothing to carry water in."

I'm surprised, though, at the response you got about Bible reading, since one of the main arguments of the Protestant Reformation was that every Christian should be able to read the Scriptures for themselves rather than being dependent on bishops and priests to interpret them.  That's why they started translating the Bible from Latin into vernacular languages.  Of course, I imagine the ministers did provide explanations and interpretations since they presumable were more learned, but I'd still have assumed that Puritans would have wanted their kids to have basic literacy for Bible-reading and devotional books.  Maybe attitudes varied during different periods? 

[kathyk2]

3 hours ago, Annber03 said:

Yeah, I'm kind of sad we won't get to actually see Isaac spending some time in the shed for a few episodes, that could've ben a kick. But from that little snippet of how Jenkins and Baxter reacted to him being there...I'm also not surprised he wouldn't last long :p.

But still. Yes. The interaction between Isaac and NIgel tonight gave me some hope - Isaac couldn't bear to bring himself to ask Nigel to leave (the look on his face when Nigel was talking about why he liked living in the mansion), and Nigel can see that Isaac is trying, at least a little bit, to be a better person. And they're actually talking again, and being civil and respectful. It's a start, I'll take it :). I did love the whole Throw Momma from the Train plot with them that Trevor suggested, though. And Nancy! She's got a hell of a grip XD!

(Also, damn, Isaac just roasting Trevor's "T-Money" nicname tonight :p!)

Patience's power is indeed very cool. And creepy. And apparently tasty, if the girlfriend eating it is any indication :p. For the briefest of monents I wondered if Isaac would somehow wind up sharing a room with Patience - that could be some good payback for him in and of itself :p. 

But yeah, given the others' reactions to her behavior and words this episode, it'll be interesting to see how long she stays in the house. Maybe she'll eventually find herself in the shed and that can be the catalyst for Nigel moving back into the mansion, depending on how he and Isaac work things out. 

The whole running thing with Pete trying to get Sam to call him "daddy" was...something :p. I am glad that Sam and her dad were able to work some stuff out - I could honestly see her mom kinda painting her dad in a bad light - unfortunately it's what parents often do after a divorce. And Sam's mom was a rather critical sort, that was a big issue between her and Sam, so I can see her haivng some OPINIONS about Sam's dad and maybe spinning things, if only so her daughter doesn't hate or bame her for the divorce. Sam's Woodstone family line is on her mom's side, isn't it? 'Cause we've seen how that family history can be. 

That said, the point about her mom being dead and unable to defend herself is also a very good one, and while I can sympathze with the hesitancy to try and reach out after so long, well...

I don't think Sam's mom was that bad she may have disagreed with Sam about her career Sam still wears her mother's perfume. My brother was divorced from his first wife when his kids were young he made sure he was present in their lives so I find it difficult to believe her dad. 

[possibilities]

`I like Nigel more than I like Isaac. 

[Skooma]

28 minutes ago, kathyk2 said:

I don't think Sam's mom was that bad she may have disagreed with Sam about her career Sam still wears her mother's perfume. My brother was divorced from his first wife when his kids were young he made sure he was present in their lives so I find it difficult to believe her dad. 

Bottom line this episode is that Sam and her Dad are growing closer and he is trying to be a good guy.  I believe the writers want us to believe that what he said happened did happen.  It's a show after all and the writers get to decide.

[UsernameFatigue]

I have no patience for Patience. I did not enjoy the show last week or this week. I hope she disappears as if she doesn't,  I may have to. 

[sweetandsour]

I like Patience in small-to-moderate doses, but I don't want her to be featured in every episode and every storyline.  She can show up as often as Crash does.  (I like Mary Holland, the actress, a lot, so that is probably making me biased.)

Maybe the apparent majority of viewers will get two birds killed with one stone if Patience and Carol (where's she been, e.g. who has she been screwing?) inexplicably become best friends and they wander off to live on a corner of the property together.

I think there is plenty that wasn't said that may paint Sam's mom and/or dad in a more sympathetic light.  But they just did broad strokes in the episodes featuring them, and maybe we'll peel back some layers as we go along.

Diane was insane to taste the red substance.  No matter what it is.  Even if it's tasty food like raspberry coulis.  It was on the wall of an old house.  Applied with some unknown tool.

[Skooma]

2 hours ago, UsernameFatigue said:

I have no patience for Patience. I did not enjoy the show last week or this week. I hope she disappears as if she doesn't,  I may have to. 

And I love Patience and hope she stays.  I think we have too many of the ghosts all on the same page with their beliefs and points of view and I for one am glad there is a counterpoint ghost to all of this unity. 

You can't have a story without some conflict after all.  Writing 101.  So I have loved the first 2 episodes.  Different strokes.

[shapeshifter]

9 hours ago, kathyk2 said:

I don't trust Sam's Dad he blamed his former wife when she isn't here to defend herself.

9 hours ago, Skooma said:

I think he told the truth.  That's why the writer's put this in the episode.

Eh. I'm not so sure. We met Sam's mother in a previous season, and while she had some history of not seeing things as they are (I can't quite recall) it was long enough ago that I don't think the writers expect us to recall it. So, Sam's Dad putting all the blame on her Mom doesn't sound quite right. I mean, even though they had Sam buy his entire explanation, we didn't get anything definitive to back it up. 
So maybe they will revisit this? 
Dean Norris is a great addition to any ensemble of characters, so I'd like to see him come back next Halloween after maybe Sam has learned that he wasn't totally blameless, and they resolve it, including Sam revealing the ghost powers.

[shapeshifter]

5 hours ago, UsernameFatigue said:

I have no patience for Patience. I did not enjoy the show last week or this week. I hope she disappears as if she doesn't,  I may have to. 

2 hours ago, Skooma said:

And I love Patience and hope she stays.  I think we have too many of the ghosts all on the same page with their beliefs and points of view and I for one am glad there is a counterpoint ghost to all of this unity. 

You can't have a story without some conflict after all.  Writing 101.  So I have loved the first 2 episodes.  Different strokes.

They certainly made Patience unlikeable, but we've already seen personal growth in just her second episode of living upstairs in the Woodstone. 
It seems like a setup for us to see Patience get "sucked off" when she resolves the prejudices with which she was indoctrinated against the real principles of her religion — if there were any worthwhile principles taught. 
Maybe Flower can teach her a thing or 2 about selfless love.

 

[chaifan]

Did all the writers from Seasons 1-3 go on vacation this year?  Sorry, everyone, but I am really not liking Patience at all.  I don't think she adds anything, and is taking screen/plot time away from the main cast.  If I woke up to a bloody "SIN" written on my wall in a hotel/B&B, I'd be out of there immediately.  It's creepy as hell.  There is -0- rational excuse for that, and Sam's dad and girlfriend just handwaiving it away was incredibly unbelievable, even for this show. 

There's no way Sam & Jay can just lie to Patience about every unmarried couple staying there.  What if someone is planning their wedding, and talking about the wedding planning while there? 

I agree that it's good to have characters that aren't always agreeing with each other, but this takes it way too far in the other direction. 

 

 

[ch1]

2 hours ago, Skooma said:

And I love Patience and hope she stays.  I think we have too many of the ghosts all on the same page with their beliefs and points of view and I for one am glad there is a counterpoint ghost to all of this unity. 

You can't have a story without some conflict after all.  Writing 101.  So I have loved the first 2 episodes.  Different strokes.

I like Patience because it’s fun to have a ghost that’s actually creepy and can freak people out.  I loved the reaction to the wall bleeding..

[Gregg247]

Patience is now my favorite ghost on this show.  She's kind of a more brittle version of Hetty (my other favorite).  She's spooky and really freaks out all the other ghosts, which is good for the show; the other ghosts were getting a little too comfortable with each other. 

I look forward to seeing Patience interact with Nancy.  Will they become friends - or (im)mortal enemies?

[shura]

2 hours ago, chaifan said:

If I woke up to a bloody "SIN" written on my wall in a hotel/B&B, I'd be out of there immediately.  It's creepy as hell.  There is -0- rational excuse for that, and Sam's dad and girlfriend just handwaiving it away was incredibly unbelievable, even for this show. 

They didn't handwave it away.  They confronted Sam about it, told her they are leaving, packed and were loading the luggage in the car when Sam came to apologize and reconcile about their whole absent-father past.  Now, the adult Sam wanting to do that flute performance - that was unbelievable.

Hetty was quite a trailblazer in her day, wasn't she? The first (and possibly only) telephone in the county ('No, Ma'am, nobody called. Ever, I believe.') and a dress with a zipper! And that's a good thirty years before they started producing dresses with zippers.  Italian plaster just because you could spend money to import it (missed a chance to reference Prime there, too).  Ah, it's good to be rich...

"Sorry, Sven, we need beans" 🙃

[iMonrey]

There's an easy way to deal with an unruly ghost, and they already thought of it back when Elias was threatening to cause trouble last time he came back: Throw her in the vault. Behave yourself, or you get a time-out in the vault.

Now, maybe the other ghosts might object to the idea of making the vault a virtual ghost prison, although they didn't seem to mind the idea when Elias was threatened with it, and they don't seem particularly fond of Patience either. But they could all take a vote and if it were unanimous then into the vault you go.

I also wonder if they still have the ghost trapping machine.

Otherwise, if the other ghosts aren't willing to play ball, Sam could easily fool Patience into thinking she has some way of exorcising her or cursing her. Patience is clearly very naive about modern ways and seems to think everything she doesn't understand is somehow connected with the devil. It should be easy enough, at least for now, to scare her into compliance.

Anyway, it is kind of neat that her power is making the walls bleed because that's kind of a staple of haunted house movies.

I love shit-stirring Sass. "Yeah Sam, don't be weird. Call Pete Daddy."

[DanaK]

Patience can not just make the walls bleed, but she also makes a message appear. That's pretty nifty and handy power

[proserpina65]

Of course Isaac was lecturing the other shed ghosts about how to become better people.  That was the best bit of the episode.

14 hours ago, kathyk2 said:

I don't trust Sam's Dad he blamed his former wife when she isn't here to defend herself.

Having met her in a previous season, and having heard Sam talk about her and how she could never met the mother's expectations, I'm inclined to believe Frank.

14 hours ago, kathyk2 said:

I don't think so Why did it take four years for him to visit Sam? His former wife is dead he can't use her as an excuse. 

People get trapped in routines, especially in relationships which are dysfunctional to begin with and, as in this case, one parent has worked at alienating the child from the other parent.

14 hours ago, Browncoat said:

Patience's ghost power is a really good one!  But Patience herself is going to wear really thin really quickly, I'm afraid.

I'm hoping she'll be like the basement ghosts or the other shed ghosts and will only turn up now and then after the initial adjustment period.  Like Nancy, a little of Patience goes a long way.

14 hours ago, shura said:

I’ve got to say, if someone tells me he recently became conservative and doesn’t want me living in sin, and then I wake up and see the word “sin” written in blood on the wall?  I’m blaming that guy!  Sam’s dad is different, apparently.  Not even a stare in Jay’s direction.

It made perfect sense to blame Sam, given her history with at least one of his previous girlfriends.

13 hours ago, PaulE said:

Actually, Puritan households were fairly literate--after all, reading the Bible was very important to them, women as well as men.  Girls would have embroidered samplers that often included the alphabet and religious or moralizing verses.  And Puritans founded Harvard, the first university in the North American colonies (though admittedly it was open only to men).  They weren't at all like some of the science-denying, anti-education fundamentalists of our own day, though I think people tend to conflate the two.

Puritans sucked in many, many ways but literacy is one of the very few areas where they didn't.

10 hours ago, kathyk2 said:

I don't think Sam's mom was that bad she may have disagreed with Sam about her career Sam still wears her mother's perfume. My brother was divorced from his first wife when his kids were young he made sure he was present in their lives so I find it difficult to believe her dad. 

You find it hard to believe that people can have conflicted feelings about their parents?  I mean, the whole reason Sam's mom got sucked off in her episode was that she finally was able to apologize for years of criticism and make peace with Sam.

4 hours ago, chaifan said:

There's no way Sam & Jay can just lie to Patience about every unmarried couple staying there.  What if someone is planning their wedding, and talking about the wedding planning while there? 

That is going to be a problem when/if Woodstone gets more guests.  I'd be interested to see how they resolve it.  And I wouldn't mind Patience as an occasional part of the ensemble but I do think she's way too much to deal with in every episode.

31 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

I love shit-stirring Sass. "Yeah Sam, don't be weird. Call Pete Daddy."

Shit-stirring is Sass at his best.

 

[ams1001]

41 minutes ago, DanaK said:

Patience can not just make the walls bleed, but she also makes a message appear. That's pretty nifty and handy power

But apparently she can only conjure so much blood at a time if she didn't have enough to finish the full word. (She said she was trying to write SINNERS but ran out of blood.) I wonder if she has to wait a certain amount of time before she can do it again...

[Lugal]

13 hours ago, shura said:

There is a living history museum in Massachusetts called Plimoth Plantation.  It is set up as a Pilgrim colony settlement around 1640, I believe.  There are actors in character there, they interact with you as if they are really living in that time.  It is tremendous, a mind blowing experience, if you haven’t been - I highly recommend it.  Anyway, I asked one of the “Pilgrim women” specifically about school and reading and such.  The answer I got was “well, we don’t really need to read. Yes, there is the Bible, but that is the last thing we want to read for ourselves.  What if we misunderstand it?  What if we get the wrong idea?  That would be really bad.  No, it is really better to leave it to the minister to explain to us what we need to know and understand.”  I guess I don’t know for a fact that what they tell you there is historically accurate, I would assume it should be, but who knows.  It is an interesting thought though about the dangers of reading scripture on your own.

The Pilgrims (technically called Separatists) were a different sect than the Puritans.  Close but not the same thing.

15 hours ago, Browncoat said:

I knew Isaac wouldn't last long in the shed, but I really thought it would be because he missed his creature comforts, like a bed and TV, not because the shed ghosts didn't want him there.  No sign of Pete's wife in the shed, either.

I noticed that too.  Maybe Carol just didn't feel like listening to him.  It's not like he provides her a cheating opportunity.  Now that Isaac thinks he's being a better person, he's getting even more insufferable.  I do think it's a nice touch that the other ghosts didn't want him there.

15 hours ago, shura said:

I’ve got to say, if someone tells me he recently became conservative and doesn’t want me living in sin, and then I wake up and see the word “sin” written in blood on the wall?  I’m blaming that guy!  Sam’s dad is different, apparently.  Not even a stare in Jay’s direction.

I think they all saw that as the ass-covering that it was especially since Frank knew Sam's history with regard to his girlfriends.  And it's not like Jay really sold the "I'm super-conservative now" line. It could even come off as sweet that Jay's covering for his wife (as far as they knew).  But her scapeghosting makes me wonder if she was seeing ghosts as a child.

[Chit Chat]

15 hours ago, baldryanr said:

Wasn't that addressed in the episode?  Things were strained for years and he didn't feel comfortable reaching out.

I thought Jay summed it up perfectly: "Sometimes it's hard to change course.  Maybe this weekend was him trying."   I like that first line.  That can apply to a lot of things in our lives.  

[Driad]

Could Sam have told her father that SIN had been on the wall when they got the house, and they had tried various preparations to try to remove or cover it?

[Maelstrom]

Except presumably SIN wasn't written on the wall in blood when they settled in for the night ("Here, Diane, you can sleep in the Bloody Walls Suite...")

[Daff]

16 hours ago, shura said:

Also surprising that Isaac doesn’t know about Benedict Arnold.  How did it never come up?

As someone noted above, Arnold was a very successsful general. Treavor commented that Isaaac  died before he was disgraced.

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, Driad said:

Could Sam have told her father that SIN had been on the wall when they got the house, and they had tried various preparations to try to remove or cover it?

10 minutes ago, Maelstrom said:

Except presumably SIN wasn't written on the wall in blood when they settled in for the night ("Here, Diane, you can sleep in the Bloody Walls Suite...")

Yeah. But I bet the writers toyed with the idea of having Sam & Jay explain that the red paint bleeds through every paint they tried covering it with, and they thought they'd found a paint that permanently covered it, but apparently not. 

Hrmmm... If they painted a room dark red, then Patience blood might not be noticed…
I personally think the fad of painting rooms dark red (first saw it in in 2001) is awful, but then I can't stand light green either.

 

[Daff]

10 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Could Sam have told her father that SIN had been on the wall

They half-heartedly tried that, but the couple didn’t buy it.

[shura]

7 minutes ago, Daff said:

As someone noted above, Arnold was a very successsful general. Treavor commented that Isaaac  died before he was disgraced.

Yes, and then he was joined by Hetty, Pete, Trevor, etc., then Sam came on the scene and wrote a book about Isaac. My point is, all of these people knew about Arnold being a traitor and could have told him. 

1 hour ago, Driad said:

Could Sam have told her father that SIN had been on the wall when they got the house, and they had tried various preparations to try to remove or cover it?

Isn't that pretty much what Jay told him?

[iMonrey]

8 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Eh. I'm not so sure. We met Sam's mother in a previous season, and while she had some history of not seeing things as they are (I can't quite recall) it was long enough ago that I don't think the writers expect us to recall it. So, Sam's Dad putting all the blame on her Mom doesn't sound quite right. I mean, even though they had Sam buy his entire explanation, we didn't get anything definitive to back it up. 

If I take what Sam's dad said at face value, about why he did not attend Sam's recital, it seems quite likely his ex-wife was poisoning Sam's mind about him. Which, unfortunately, happens a lot when parents divorce and one parent has primary custody and is bitter about their ex. He said she threatened to throw a fit if he even showed up. That's pretty extreme.

I'd like to hear Sam's side of this. We don't know how hard she tried to reach out to him over the years. If she didn't make an effort it's no wonder he didn't. Him showing up now is in fact him making an effort.

[tennisgurl]

Patience can be a whole lot to take, as the ghosts keep mentioning, but so far I love her. Its a lot of fun having a ghost who is actually creepy and has actually creepy ghost powers, who is creeping out the rest of the actual ghosts. Hopefully she can chill put after being out of the dirt for awhile, or at least Sam and Jay can use her ghost power to throw a really cool Halloween party! At last! 

From what we saw of Sam's mom, I can see her being the sort of person who would try to keep her ex away from their daughter, much of her relationship with Sam sounded like it consisted of her criticizing her and being controlling, wanting to be totally in charge of Sam after a bad divorce seems on brand. As for not spending much time with her as an adult, it sucks but I buy that he really did feel like it would be awkward after so much time, and he seems sincere about wanting to make an effort with her now. Plus, I love Dean Norris and its hard for me to stay annoyed with him. 

I hope that things start looking up for Nigel soon, I still feel bad that he and Isaac broke up, I would have much preferred a story where they had to navigate being married, and its sad seeing him so hurt. At least Isaac is learning how to be a good person! Let him tell you all about what a great person her is now! 

From now all, when we think of Benedict Arnold's greatest betrayal, we shall all now think of him not returning Isaacs lantern. Otherwise, a very trustworthy guy. 

Hetty really was a big deal, she had a dress with a zipper!

Edited October 25 by tennisgurl

[Chit Chat]

3 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Hetty really was a big deal, she had a dress with a zipper!

That was a big deal!!  One thing I learned from touring the Biltmore Estate in North Carolina was that dresses with buttons going all the way up & down the back was a status symbol too.  It meant that you could afford to hire someone to help you dress and button up all of those buttons!  We took a behind-the-scenes tour and the room where the seamstress worked was where we learned that tidbit of info!  

Hetty also had a telephone.  She was a big deal!!  What is the number?  Four.  Let me repeat that, four!  I love this show!

Edited October 25 by Chit Chat
left out a word