S02.E03: The Eagle and the Sceptre

[paulvdb]

Quote

Isildur and an old friend reunite. Arondir grapples with change. Míriel faces rising opposition. Annatar counsels Celebrimbor.

Premiere date: August 29, 2024

[AnimeMania]

[Anduin]

I'm sorry, but nearly four hours is just too much. Yeah, this season looks stronger than S1, but it all sort of blurs after a while.

[Harvey]

This episode was very very boring. The issue is that it focused mostly on characters and storylines I just do not care about.

[thuganomics85]

Nothing against the actor playing Pharazon; who is good enough in the role, but every time I see him; but I just keep thinking of him as "British Danny Huston."  Anyway, it's no surprise that he was able to take advantage of the situation and looks like he's going to usurp Miriel as the new ruler since everyone is upset that she was using an Elvin artifact.  Of course, I suspect they will all live to regret it by the end of things.  Curious about Captain Elendil.  He clearly is loyal to Miriel, but I wonder if he'll still think it is "his duty" to serve whoever the ruler.  Then again, Pharazon himself might not want him around.

Get a few other returning players like Isildur, Theo, and Arondir as well.  Bronwyn is gone though: read somewhere it was the actress' decision, so I'm curious what the initial plans were for the character.

Good old Durin is on point that something shady is going down with creating more of these magical rings, but naturally his dad doesn't listen to his concerns.  He and Elrond need to reunite fast!

So, this Estrid character is actually part of Adar's group? Or use to be since she had his marking?

I'll keep on watching, but so far, it feels like the show still has the same problems it had last season.  Not a bad watch, but I still hold the slightly unpopular opinion that The Wheel of Time is actually better or at least more fun to watch despite its own flaws.

[Affogato]

I do not mind if they produced one of these a week all year, slowly laying out the complex and dense story. But that won’t happen.  So yeah, it is an odd choice. Not sure it is a story they should tell. I suspect it would be best told irreverently. Creatively. 
 

 The eagle should have eaten Pharazon.  What was it thinking?
 

[peridot]

Miriel is surprisingly tolerant of being physically attacked and slandered.  No matter if she lost a battle or not, no one should be allowed to get away with slapping her.

I thought the eagle came for her, not the silver-haired guy.  I guess it's all how you spin it.

I'm surprised no one at the village is checking newcomers for the mark of Adar.  They are very naive.

That was a shitty thing the kid said to the elf guy.  I hope the elf washes his hands of him.

It's so creepy seeing Sauron manipulate Celebrimbor like this.

[PurpleTentacle]

I finally got through it. It wasn't easy but I did it. Had to resort to playing video games on the side to not fall asleep. I might be out soon. At least season 1 was fun to hate watch, this is just increadibly boring.

I still don't like the "let's cram modern politics into lord of the rings"-thing. Also where did that giant eagel come from? It just chilling there?

So they killed Bronwyn between seasons? Guess the actress wanted out (can't blame her) and they didn't want to recast yet another character...

On 8/29/2024 at 12:35 PM, Anduin said:

I'm sorry, but nearly four hours is just too much. Yeah, this season looks stronger than S1, but it all sort of blurs after a while.

It was actually just ever so slightly above 3 hours, without the previously on and the end credits.

Episode 1: 1:07

Episode 2: 0:56

Episode 3: 1:00

I know it feels like 4 hours, hell to me it felt more like 5, but that's just because it's so insanely boring.

On 8/30/2024 at 3:35 AM, thuganomics85 said:

I'll keep on watching, but so far, it feels like the show still has the same problems it had last season.  Not a bad watch, but I still hold the slightly unpopular opinion that The Wheel of Time is actually better or at least more fun to watch despite its own flaws.

I'd say it is a bad watch and yes, the Wheel of Time is a lot better. Not the greatest show ever made, but at least it's entertaining.

On 8/31/2024 at 4:16 AM, peridot said:

That was a shitty thing the kid said to the elf guy.  I hope the elf washes his hands of him.

Also just wrong and foreshadowing with a sledgehammer "I never knew my father, but I know he's not you." Um boy, you are the only two people with that skin colour in a hundred mile radius and he used to nail your mom. Do the math!

Edited September 2 by PurpleTentacle

[Phillygurl]

Hmm Theo and Arondir do not appear to have the same skin color. One is caramel while the other is olive. I don't think Arondir is the father, at least I hope not because he doesn't seem like he is the type of guy to have a kid and not claim him. If this is what they are going for then they should have had him show much more interest in Theo before. Also, why would Bronwyn have thanked Arondir for saving Theo if he is their son. If they go this route, I don't think they laid the appropriate ground work for this and it likely won't land well.

I didn't watch the episodes all together, I stretched them out over 2 nights but honestly I should have watched together because the 3rd episode shouldn't have been a stand alone. 

It's extremely grating to me that Galadriel and Elrond are taking their sweet time going to Eregion given the stakes. 

The first season was definitely more watchable. I feel like this season there are just far too many characters to keep track of especially since they are in 7 different locations. Last season at least they seemed to focus only on 3-4 locals at a time. We would see Khazad Dum when Elrond was there. Numenor when Galadriel was there. Now even the Orcs and Lord Father are even being given more screen time. It just feels like they are trying to do too much. 

[Brn2bwild]

I assume by now people know Miriel is blind?  It's fairly obvious, but she initially tried to hide it and no one has mentioned it other than Elendil.

The eagle seemed to keep looking beyond Pharazon, trying to get beyond him.  Did the elven artifact summon it?

[Affogato]

I assume if Theo was Arondir’s child he would be an elf until proven otherwise. It seems to be the dominant form until they choose and then they still look elfy, but eventually die. 
 

i wondered if there is something we aren’t told about the eagle.  Also wondered if it had to do with red or white clothes. However, in the third age gandalf talks to them, they are intelligent? Had Pharazon staged the eagle entrance but it recognized Miriel anyway but couldn’t get to her? 

[Anduin]

2 hours ago, Affogato said:

However, in the third age gandalf talks to them, they are intelligent?

Yes. But even having read the books I can't tell you what all that was about. This show sometimes hits great moments, sometimes it's mystifying.

[Affogato]

1 hour ago, Anduin said:

Yes. But even having read the books I can't tell you what all that was about. This show sometimes hits great moments, sometimes it's mystifying.

I assume the eagles are somehow dear to Numinor, or the people would not have assumed it was a great portent. Other than that, confusing. 

[Affogato]

Rewatched the first episode. Gil-galad  says Galadriel might bring the very shadow she thinks to defend against and then puts her in the place where she needs to be to meet the shadow. She remembers her brother telling her she cannot know the light until she has touched the dark. It is Gil-galad’s failure of leadership there.

Classic road to Damascus stuff.

I still think Elrond was too young to be considered one of the ruling lords. But considered lord material. 

Edited September 2 by Affogato

[Grimnar]

Show is called Rings of Power but we spent like 5 minutes in total with making of rings. I hoped that it would be part of first season where we would see Celebrimbor and Sauron trials in making rings. Still dislike that mithril has healing powers(Frodo literally wore mithril shirt forhalf of the story and it didn't help with his injury). Celebrimbor looks very easily fooled by Sauron, like it wasn't earned it.

Why Adar's people are wearing Sauron's mark when they are againts Sauron? I think with another plot in Pelargir there is too much storylines to be properly told.

Kind of underwhelming how Pharazon seized power. Pharazon, Gil-Galad, Galadriel and Sauron from first episode failed to make impression why would people follow them. I assume we are not getting Anarion this season.

And can we finally get reason why Numenor dislike elves? Because so far it is not about mortality of men.

Edited September 2 by Grimnar

[astrohip]

Call me the outlier, I've been enjoying this season. I watched one each night, to have time to savor each episode. My only complaint is too many plot lines. When you have an episode that skips an entire story line, then you need to rethink your writing. But that's a minor issue, and probably why they released the first three eps at once. I also think we're going to see many of these plot lines start to converge, making for a less convoluted story.

Someone mentioned "cramming modern politics". I don't see it at all. You can read anything into anything, but it wasn't so overt as to hit me over the head.

17 hours ago, PurpleTentacle said:

So they killed Bronwyn between seasons? Guess the actress wanted out (can't blame her) and they didn't want to recast yet another character...

The actor playing Bronwyn decided after S1 that she wants to quit acting for now, and get involved in her country's politics (she's Iranian). It had nothing to do with the series. Even though we left S1 thinking she had survived, they had to write her out, hence that scene. Your comment is a good example of letting your strong dislike for this show make up reasons for things happening, with no basis in reality.

17 hours ago, PurpleTentacle said:

Um boy, you are the only two people with that skin colour in a hundred mile radius and he used to nail your mom. Do the math!

I think you are way off-base here. They've done nothing to make us think that, and in fact, have shown that the relationship between Arondir and Bronwyn was a developing one, not an old, established one.

 

12 hours ago, Brn2bwild said:

I assume by now people know Miriel is blind?  It's fairly obvious, but she initially tried to hide it and no one has mentioned it other than Elendil.

The people know. There were calls from the crowd about a queen who was handicapped, or not all there, or some such.

I think the Eagles do their own thing. They are considered a higher life, not quite Valar, but close. I don't think (WAG) the Numenoreans can summon them at will. Eagles gonna eagle. It clearly was there to endorse Miriel, but quick thinking by Pharazon's gang made it look like it was for him. 

Can't wait for E4!

 

[Affogato]

Sorry forgot momentarily

Edited September 2 by Affogato

[tv-talk]

I like this much better than last season so far and like what we are seeing in the previews. More Durin and Elrond, less Galldrielle? Count me in.  There is too much going on right now but clearly some plotlines will converge and tidy things up. 

The dynamic building where Sauron has to win out to become the Sauron we know is really interesting, from the books and movies you dont think of him competing with but rather dominating all around him.

Good to see Saruman! He was ancient even when Gandalf arrived, looks like he's been around as long as Elves or close- there is a lot they can do with that.

I wasnt a huge fan of the masked crew hunting Gandalf and Noory, they look like too many desert baddies from other shows and movies. 

For sure the Eagle wasnt endorsing Pharazon, he just cunningly stole the endorsement given Ariel is blind and couldnt really tell what was happening.

[baldryanr]

3 hours ago, Grimnar said:

And can we finally get reason why Numenor dislike elves? Because so far it is not about mortality of men.

Last season there was a truly bizarre scene where the people were worried about the elves swooping in and taking their "trades", which made no damned sense.  Being worried about losing their jobs to a (supposedly) physically superior race is one of the stupidest reasons they could have come up with when the book reason makes perfect sense. 

[Camera One]

I'm glad I watched the three episodes separately.  I thought this was definitely the more engaging episode thus far, but I probably wouldn't have thought that if I endured Episodes 1+2 immediately before this one.  

It was still annoying to see Sauron playing Celebrimbor like the stupidest of all fiddles but they at least had minimal scenes. 

Time and travel on this show still felt like it was due to plot convenience.  Durin and Disa visited and came back with his father, but Elrond and Galadriel were still conveniently on the slow, slow road to Eregion.  If Durin the Younger was so distrustful about the rings, why did he quickly reconcile with his father, unless he wanted a reason for his father to want to mine mithril again?

Meanwhile, Isildir was conveniently not attacked by spiders until his horse wandered into the cave after who knows how long.  Isildur still thought his father was waiting around, suggesting it hadn't been long since he escaped from the collapsed house, but daddy already sailed back to Numenor, so how long had it actually been? 

Especially since Brownyn's funeral was only just being held now.  I was a little disappointed she was killed off.  I knew the actress didn't want to be back this season, but thought they would just keep her off-screen in case she returned in a few years.

Theo was bratty as usual, but I actually found the interactions with the characters here, and the political issues in Numenor more interesting and less predictable and contrived than the Elven rings/Sauron manipulation stuff we got in the first two episodes.

The first scene with Isildir and the shady woman he befriended was a total tonal shift with her casual speech and meet cute banter with the knife wound.  Isildir's sister, meanwhile, spoke in a weirdly formal way to her father.  Those were two weird-dialogue moments that stood out.

Pharazon was just casually discussing usurping the crown in a public tavern with his loudmouth son?  

I wanted to like that Eagle... but terrible timing and landing location, oh wise one, if you wanted to support Muriel's bid as ruler.  I think my favorite character so far was Isildir's horse, though I expected him to put up more of a fight against the men who took him, after his spectacular takedown of the orcs.

I think I would have been good with a three episode season.  I think I've had enough for now.  

Edited September 2 by Camera One

[dkb]

On 8/30/2024 at 10:16 PM, peridot said:

 

I thought the eagle came for her, not the silver-haired guy.  I guess it's all how you spin it.

 

I thought it came for her too.

I thought this was the best episode so far of the season, even though I totally forgot the most of the characters in this episode 😳. 

Pharazon's son is so slimy and loserish, as are that whole usurper gang. Glad Isildur's friend put them all in their place in the tavern.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

22 hours ago, Affogato said:

I assume the eagles are somehow dear to Numinor, or the people would not have assumed it was a great portent. Other than that, confusing. 

Book-wise, the giant Eagles are messengers of Manwë, King of the Valar.  So yeah, their appearance is pretty portentious.

[Haleth]

Ugh, I'd forgotten about that bratty kid.  I'm guessing that was an Ent he saw while fleeing, right?  I hope it stomps him.  (Pelargir is pretty far from Fangorn forest!)

There is just way too much going on with this show to keep it interesting.  They really should have axed the whole Harfoot/Stranger storyline since it's not relevant to the rings/Sauron.  (I know, the producers felt Hobbit-like characters would draw an audience.  Unfortunately now they do nothing but draw away from the main action.)

On 9/2/2024 at 10:35 AM, Affogato said:

I assume the eagles are somehow dear to Numinor, or the people would not have assumed it was a great portent. Other than that, confusing. 

They are messengers for the gods, semi divine.  I had a lengthy argument once with someone as to whether or not they are Maiar.  (Yes, nerd.)  Incidentally I was on the pro Maia argument.

On 9/2/2024 at 12:25 PM, Affogato said:

I still think Elrond was too young to be considered one of the ruling lords. But considered lord material. 

He is descended from kings, heroes, and a Maia.  His pedigree is exemplary.

On 9/2/2024 at 1:34 PM, Grimnar said:

And can we finally get reason why Numenor dislike elves?

Jealousy?

[Affogato]

42 minutes ago, Haleth said:

Ugh, I'd forgotten about that bratty kid.  I'm guessing that was an Ent he saw while fleeing, right?  I hope it stomps him.  (Pelargir is pretty far from Fangorn forest!)

 

They are messengers for the gods, semi divine.  I had a lengthy argument once with someone as to whether or not they are Maiar.  (Yes, nerd.)  Incidentally I was on the pro Maia argument.

He is descended from kings, heroes, and a Maia.  His pedigree is exemplary.

There was considerable argument last season about whether he was cut from the council because he was a ‘mudblood’. I feel he was a herald/cupbearer but not a full council member and that the full council members were titled ‘lords’. 
 

that raises the question of entwives, especially if our protohobbits settle at some point. I agree that it is too much. A show entirely about the protohobbits would be better with only vague contact with the big folk. A suggestion of the larger story. However Elrond is delightful. Then they could have vo e the other way and dropped them. 
 

Eagle could have squeaked out a ‘hail miriel’ then. 

Edited September 4 by Affogato

[Grimnar]

2 hours ago, Haleth said:

Jealousy?

Jealous of what? That elves can work all night long?

[Tachi Rocinante]

Sauron switched the rock, yes?

[Haleth]

Just now, Tachi Rocinante said:

Sauron switched the rock, yes?

Or corrupted it some way. 

[rmontro]

I had heard that Rings of Power did some major overhauling during their time off, after negative responses to the first season.  After watching the first two episodes, I was pretty impressed, it seemed like they had cleaned things up a lot, and they were doing a lot better.  Then the third episode seems like a step backwards.  The Numenorean plotline just has not been very satisfying at this point, and it's rather dull.  Plus of course all the time discrepancies still exist, but not much that can be done about that now.

[astrohip]

On 9/2/2024 at 3:41 PM, tv-talk said:

Good to see Saruman! He was ancient even when Gandalf arrived, looks like he's been around as long as Elves or close- there is a lot they can do with that.

 

Not convinced that's Saruman. He wasn't full-on evil at that time, which this (Blue?) wizard is.

On 9/4/2024 at 6:56 AM, Haleth said:

There is just way too much going on with this show to keep it interesting.  They really should have axed the whole Harfoot/Stranger storyline since it's not relevant to the rings/Sauron. 

Agree. My main complaint is how many story lines they're juggling. Cut out half of them, and it makes for a faster moving, much more interesting series.

[quarks]

1. So after slightly - slightly - redeeming himself at the end of last season, Theo returns to form as my least favorite character on this show. I get it, I get it, his mother just died, he has issues, but I am currently on Team Kill Theo Already, along with Team Theo Does Not Deserve To Be a Nazgul If That's Where His Plot Line Is Going. 

(Look, I know they're evil, but I like to think that even the Nazgul have standards and Theo is not meeting those standards.)

2. The other character really not working for me? Eärien. She knows her brother volunteered for the mission. She knows her father, despite Isildur's supposed death, still supports the queen. She knows her brother's best friend still supports the queen and doesn't blame her for Isildur's death. And yet....here she is, trying to take down the queen.

And I can kinda understand how Eärien got there, but I needed to see more of that on screen, and I didn't.

Also, how is Eärien walking around with a palantir without getting at least the occasional vision from it?

3. You know, eagle, if you're planning to show up all portentous and all that, maybe work a bit on your timing. Just a bit.

4. But if I'm just a touch frustrated with the eagles, I am DEFINITELY Team Horse. Go horse, go. 

5. And full credit to Pharazon for seizing his opportunity there. No credit whatsoever to the surrounding people who couldn't tell the difference between HI I AM EAGLE SUPPORTING THIS DUDE and HI, I AM ANGRY EAGLE GETTING INCREASINGLY UPSET THAT YOU CAN'T TELL THAT I'M KINDA TICKED HERE.

 

[Camera One]

1 hour ago, quarks said:

3. You know, eagle, if you're planning to show up all portentous and all that, maybe work a bit on your timing. Just a bit.

4. But if I'm just a touch frustrated with the eagles, I am DEFINITELY Team Horse. Go horse, go. 

5. And full credit to Pharazon for seizing his opportunity there. No credit whatsoever to the surrounding people who couldn't tell the difference between HI I AM EAGLE SUPPORTING THIS DUDE and HI, I AM ANGRY EAGLE GETTING INCREASINGLY UPSET THAT YOU CAN'T TELL THAT I'M KINDA TICKED HERE.

I know the Eagle wants to stay regal and all, but one well-placed peck and the people would know he doesn't support Pharazon.

[quarks]

25 minutes ago, Camera One said:

I know the Eagle wants to stay regal and all, but one well-placed peck and the people would know he doesn't support Pharazon.

This, too.

Seriously, Eagle. You had one job. 

[Harvey]

On 9/6/2024 at 5:05 PM, rmontro said:

I had heard that Rings of Power did some major overhauling during their time off, after negative responses to the first season. 

They did not. They were already well into making season 2 when season 1 came out and everyone hated it. The soonest we can see improvement is season 3. The showrunners said in interviews repeatedly that by the time S1 was airing it was just too late to incorporate possible improvements into S2.

[Camera One]

To improve the show, the showrunners need to honestly identify the actual flaws.  From their interviews, it seems like the only criticism they internalized was the first season's plot moved too slowly, so they promised more action and excitement this season. 

The actual problems, like timeline/distance inconsistencies (Elrond and Galadriel not arriving yet for no explicable reason), shallow and barely developed characters acting in ways that were convenient to the plot (eg. Gil-galad's horrible leadership, Isildur's sister's betrayal) and focusing on the outcome rather than natural storytelling (eg. We want Isildur to fight baby Shelob, so let's have him somehow webbed up in a cave with zero explanation how he got there in the long length of time his people sailed all the way back home to Numenor, but let's have him act like the volcano just erupted a few days ago).  

Their explanation for the Season 1 problems was that they needed to introduce the characters and establish the premise, which was just an excuse for bad writing.  There was no reason why setting the scene needed to be insipid and clunky, especially in a world as rich and complex as Middle Earth.  The same problems have persisted.

Having said that, I do think the first three episodes of this season have been a bit more watchable.  They are definitely limited by only having the rights to the Appendices.  But the show is still not well written, and I have no confidence that these inexperienced showrunners/headwriters even have the ability.

[rmontro]

17 hours ago, Harvey said:

They did not. They were already well into making season 2 when season 1 came out and everyone hated it. The soonest we can see improvement is season 3. The showrunners said in interviews repeatedly that by the time S1 was airing it was just too late to incorporate possible improvements into S2.

Well, I thought the first two episodes this season were better than last year, for whatever reason.

[baldryanr]

I know it sounds weird, but sometimes showrunners and writers can recognize what doesn't work and self correct without fans telling them about it.

[Harvey]

12 hours ago, rmontro said:

Well, I thought the first two episodes this season were better than last year, for whatever reason.

Probably because of the increased focus on Sauron? The showrunners said well before S2 even came out that they know very well that that is what people want to see and it would have been easy to just start the story there and please everybody, but for whatever reason they decided to make people wait 2 years to get to that part.

[Anduin]

12 minutes ago, Harvey said:

Probably because of the increased focus on Sauron? The showrunners said well before S2 even came out that they know very well that that is what people want to see and it would have been easy to just start the story there and please everybody, but for whatever reason they decided to make people wait 2 years to get to that part.

I'm a very amateur writer, but I've found that stories start where they have to start. Trying to jump to the 'good bit', or hurrying things along, never works for me. They start where they start and go at their own pace. I wonder if that's true for the showrunners as well.

[Affogato]

Ducking in advance, but shows that make women their leads (as Galadriel was in the first season) often struggle. Viewers seem to look for a man in the sow, often her love interest, and then settle in to watching. Sauron, the bad boy if this elven ‘teen’ drama….

[tennisgurl]

I guess its good to know that, after momentarily being somewhat likable, Theo is consistently the worst character in the show. Why we're spending so much time on this angsty teen when there is so much else going on, I have no idea. Its weird that Bronwyn died offscreen this way, even if the actress wanted to leave you would think they would at least tell us how she died. She was a major character last season and now she's just gone, leaving annoying Theo here with us. 

Damn it Eagle, its great that you look all cool and portentous, but couldn't you let the people know in general that your pissed, not that your endorsing Pharazon, the most obviously evil advisor since Jafar. It would have been awesome if the eagle had given him a huge peck or grabbed him in his beak and tossed him out the window. 

I'm glad that Durin is already smelling something fishy going on, he and Elrond really need to meet up again and start a "this all seems weird, we should ask for questions" collective. 

I can appreciate that the showrunners wanted to move the story along faster than last season, which is at least making things a bit more interesting, but most of the problems are the same. To many characters, too many plotlines, not much emotional connection to a lot of the characters.

Edited September 9 by tennisgurl

[PurpleTentacle]

On 9/2/2024 at 9:24 PM, astrohip said:

I think you are way off-base here. They've done nothing to make us think that, and in fact, have shown that the relationship between Arondir and Bronwyn was a developing one, not an old, established one.

I'm not going to subject myself to rewatching season one, but as far as I remember it was pretty clear that they had something in the past and were possibly rekindling it. It wasn't new at all.

On 9/2/2024 at 4:47 AM, Phillygurl said:

Hmm Theo and Arondir do not appear to have the same skin color. One is caramel while the other is olive. I don't think Arondir is the father, at least I hope not because he doesn't seem like he is the type of guy to have a kid and not claim him. If this is what they are going for then they should have had him show much more interest in Theo before. Also, why would Bronwyn have thanked Arondir for saving Theo if he is their son. If they go this route, I don't think they laid the appropriate ground work for this and it likely won't land well.

Theo is a bit lighter than Arondir, that's about it and not unexpected.

Would you not thank your husband if he saved your son, even if it's also his son? Also she clearly hasn't told him.

It's the most obvious and most cliched route there is, so considering the writers of this show, of course they are going to take it.

On 9/2/2024 at 1:18 PM, Affogato said:

I assume if Theo was Arondir’s child he would be an elf until proven otherwise. It seems to be the dominant form until they choose and then they still look elfy, but eventually die. 

I assume these are the kinds of writers who like to "subvert" established lore.

I mean Gandalf is running around middle earth hundreds of years too early.

 

Edited September 10 by PurpleTentacle

[Rushmoras]

Um, either this is how "the Enemy perverts minds and wills of those that he has befriended" or Celebrimbor is just as megalomaniac as the next noble. Haha. Between him and "Halbrand", I'm seeing evilness pouring out of old Celeb lad there.

Also, ah, so they instead of recasting the actress decided to kill her character. Oh, well, gonna miss the elf-human love story... probably.

So, it's been ages since I read Silmarilion and Children of Hurin, were Numenorians always racists or rather speciest against the elves or was it just for this show?

Glad to see Durin is seeing through Sauron's shit, at least doesn't trust him fully.

Oh, look, the eagle flow to favour Miriel... oh, no, the would-be overthrowers said to the rabble that it favours Pharoah or whatever his name is. I guess he'll be king now, since elven magic is prohibited or something...

[quarks]

24 minutes ago, Rushmoras said:

 

So, it's been ages since I read Silmarilion and Children of Hurin, were Numenorians always racists or rather speciest against the elves or was it just for this show?

 

Yes and no.

Cut for spoilers:

Spoiler

Initially the Numenoreans and the various Elves, both in Middle-Earth and Tol Eressea, were on decent terms - boats kept coming back and forth from Tol Eressea, often with gifts from the Elves. That's precisely why Numenor has at least seven palantir, given to them so that they could communicate with another palantir, kept at Tol Eressea. It's also why they have the various White Trees - all gifts from the Elves. Numenor also sent military assistance to Gil-galad in Middle-Earth. (One of the stories in Unfinished Tales deals with this.)

Over time, however, the Numenoreans started to deeply resent the fact that the Elves got to live forever and could be reincarnated even after death, and men - didn't.  Sending military assistance to Middle-Earth also caused a number of issues - personal and political - and increased the resentment. It wasn't entirely new, either - Tolkien wrote, but never quite finished, a dialogue from the First Age where a human woman explains to Galadriel's brother just how much the current situation sucks. The Elves from Tol Eressea figured this out pretty quickly, and stopped coming - which didn't help.

So by the time Tar Miriel was in charge, quite a few Numenoreans did resent and hate the Elves, and were not feeling overly inclined to head over to Middle-Earth and help Gil-galad, and were feeling slightly inclined to - well. That's a major spoiler for an upcoming episode. Major.

But the show didn't completely make this up.

[JustHereForFood]

On 9/9/2024 at 3:01 PM, Harvey said:

Probably because of the increased focus on Sauron? The showrunners said well before S2 even came out that they know very well that that is what people want to see and it would have been easy to just start the story there and please everybody, but for whatever reason they decided to make people wait 2 years to get to that part.

I must be the outlier, because Sauron is what I'm the least interested in watching endlessly. Well, apart from the Harfoots.

[Ottis]

On 9/6/2024 at 2:19 PM, astrohip said:

Not convinced that's Saruman. He wasn't full-on evil at that time, which this (Blue?) wizard is.

Agree. My main complaint is how many story lines they're juggling. Cut out half of them, and it makes for a faster moving, much more interesting series.

And of course the question is, why follow all these story lines? We know where they end up, more or less. If you are going to do this show, give us a different angle about the past. More about Orcs who want peace and a family. Or a deeper dive into Sauron (who, I mean really, his manipulations are so obvious ... "I was told you were the wisest of elves, should I be talking to someone else?" Is he 5?). It's all boring and predictable. And often, impossible to see what is happening because the lighting is so f'ing dark.