S04.E02: Gates of Heaven

[chitowngirl]

Mabel and Oliver begin investigating Arconia's West Tower and get trapped inside an ominous game. Meanwhile, Charles is visited by two individuals from his complex past.

Episode drops September 3, 2024 on Hulu

Please keep on topic with things that happen in this episode. Spoiler tag things that happen in future episodes.

Edited August 27 by chitowngirl

[Snazzy Daisy]

Sneak peek! 👀

S04.E02 Preview on OMITB TikTok

Spoiler

This week, the Trio meets The Westies, a group of Arconiacs living on the West side of the building. Do Stink-Eye Joe, the Sauce family, or Christmas-All-The-Time Guy seem suspicious to anyone here?!

 

Edited September 2 by Snazzy Daisy

[Juneau Gal]

Dang, so good! I laughed. I cried. The writing so far this season has been great. Watching the Trio play off of each other is like watching old friends. The Charles and Sazz scenes were so touching. Can’t wait until next week; I haven’t looked forward like this to a show in a long time. 

[sjankis630]

Well Oh Hell. Who called it last week? I cannot remember.

I will admit I jumped at the closet scene. I really got the "other side of the island" (Gilligan's Island) vibes during the Westies part. I thought that was really clever. Can someone tell me if they were just cutting the ham and eating slices in the bathroom? And I am also assuming that the Dudenoff apartment was where they were storing the future "Oh Hell" ham sandwiches?

Once again great work by Steve Martin in the bedroom scene. It was really well done and of course I was thrilled to see Detective Williams showing back up.

 

Oh yeah. Why would the person who tried to get into the Dudenoff apartment run once they found out it was deadbolted? They maybe only had temporary access to the place or they had to get out because they got scared?

Edited September 3 by sjankis630

[Irlandesa]

10 minutes ago, sjankis630 said:

I was thrilled to see Detective Williams showing back up.

I loved her reaction to Charles telling the 911 operator that he wanted to report a murder.  It made me laugh so much.

Another line that made me laugh was Oliver's "you'll have permanent Sazz hands." 

[sjankis630]

Man Mabel looked so worried for Charles. I thought that was sweet.

[Jediknight]

1 hour ago, sjankis630 said:

It was really well done and of course I was thrilled to see Detective Williams showing back up.

Oscar winner Detective Williams, sorry just had to say that.

I was pumped when it was announced that Richard Kind would be in this season, and I shouldn't be shocked that I want to see him even more.

Loved how they focused on Sazz's loyalty to Charles, and why she would love him always.  He was the one that gave her her break, without him she doesn't become a stuntperson, so she finds him friends, looks after him, and would have no qualms about dying to protect him.

The daughter looks so damn familiar, but looking it up this is her first role.  Can't put my finger on who she reminds me of.  Right now she's suspect number one for me.

Run free, Notorious P.I.G., run free.

[thuganomics85]

"Sazz Hands."  Sorry, Oliver, you are not allowed to take that back because that is perfection!  On the other hand, I rather not hear anymore about your strip poker adventures with Frank Langella...

While I really enjoyed the premiere, it was nice going back to the Arconia again and seeing the gang do what they do best: try to solve a crime while already thinking up of their next podcast!  Didn't mind Charles being separated here because it makes sense that he wouldn't be completely all there after everything that happened and losing someone close to him (plus, the idea of him being the target makes him feel guilty because a good friend of his might have just taken a bullet for him.)  And it allowed him to work out some feelings with Hallucination Sazz.  Great acting from both Steve Martin and Jane Lynch here.

Oliver and Mabel continue to be one of my favorite pairings and I liked seeing them look into the "Westies" a.k.a. folks living in Arconia's West Tower and are quite a group of eccentric folks.  A lot of games involving ham, it seems.  Good as always seeing a few familiar faces like Richard Kind, Daphne Rubin-Vega, and Kumail Nanjiani, even if we really didn't get to meet the last character yet.

Definitely curious to see what will go down with this mysterious apartment that is likely where the gun was fired from.  The Westies all seemed to be fearful over whoever supposedly lives there, but I'm wondering if there is more to it.  Mainly if others can access it.  Not sure if we've met the actual murderer yet, but I feel like at least one of them knows more than they are letting on.

Have to imagine a recently escaped Jan will be a major wildcard going forward.

Detective Williams!  Glad she's already back and we get more from newly minted Academy Award winner Da'Vine Joy Randolph!  Already loving her reactions to finding out the gang has somehow got themselves tangled up in another murder plot.  She'll probably be seeking early retirement the more she has to deal with this lot and the craziness that follows them!

I know and have accepted that there will always be diverse opinions about Selena Gomez' acting, but I thought she did an excellent job with showing how concerned Mabel was for Charles: not just for his physical well being, but his mental well fare as well.  In my eyes, she's more than earned getting to go toe to toe with legends like Steve and Martin Short.

[shapeshifter]

The ham-carving husband who is jealous of his wife’s “free pass,” Charles/Brazzos, seems like a too-obvious red herring.

But about 9 minutes in we get this possibly clue-packed dialog:

• what we know about the residents of the West Tower?
• The Westies. They're an odd bunch. Weirdos. Loners. Renters.
• You don't have to say it like that.
• Yeah, boomer, not everyone was alive when an apartment cost a bag of beans. I'd kill to rent anything.

Not that Mabel would kill for an apartment, but someone else with a penchant for ⓜⓤⓡⓓⓔⓡ might want Charles’ apartment.

 

A GUESSING GAME FOR THE SEASON (beta version)
Will Mabel…

1. move into Sazz's LA home as part of the Hollywood contract offer?
2. move into the Dudenoff apartment?
3. …

 

 

Was 773440 both the number for the lockbox to gain entry to the Dudenoff apartment as well as spelling the name of the card game played by the Westies, "Oh Hell" (wikipedia.org/wiki/Oh_hell)?

10 hours ago, sjankis630 said:

Well Oh Hell. Who called it last week? I cannot remember

@SomeTameGazelle said it on page 2 of the 4.1 episode thread:

On 8/27/2024 at 2:57 PM, sjankis630 said:

sticky with the number "773440"

On 8/29/2024 at 7:39 AM, SomeTameGazelle said:

Probably irrelevant, but upside down in a calculator it would look like

OhhELL

 

 

Edited September 3 by shapeshifter
typo

[cardigirl]

Great episode. Really great!  I jumped at Jan in the closet, I did not expect that!

The ham in the bathroom was funny, and I thought it might have been illegally brought into the U.S., which is why it was in the bathroom?  (Edited to add that upon my second viewing it is mentioned that the ham is from Spain, so now I think they hung it up in the bathroom because that's where they had space for it.)

ibérico ham

Cinco Jotas acorn-fed 100% ibérico ham is considered by many to be the most exclusive gourmet ham in the world.

We offer two types of bone-in ham: the front leg, also called “shoulder ham” or paleta in Spanish, and the traditional back leg, referred to in Spanish simply as jamón .

The Spanish Iberian jamón is the larger piece which tends to be quite moist, thick, soft in the middle and exceptionally aromatic. The anatomy of this piece generally allows for easier carving and larger slices. While both are sublime and delicious, the front leg cut is a smaller piece, riddled with a healthy inter/ intramuscular fat and adorned with an intense flavor. While the same quality as the back leg jamón, the price for this piece tends to be slightly less, so it's excellent value for the money.

Ham cost is $1,499.00

($ 103.50/lb)

So I don't think Piggie Smalls was meant for the ham process, really, but maybe.

Steve Martin and Jane Lynch were perfection in their scenes.  It's going to be tough to wait for the next episode.

Sick puppy = Oliver's Winnie? (I see that this was already mentioned by other posters in the episode 1 thread.)

 

Edited September 3 by cardigirl

[paigow]

Sazz infiltrated the Westies and got the Dudenough intel... Charles and the Westies spied on each other a lot...

[Irlandesa]

3 hours ago, cardigirl said:

(Edited to add that upon my second viewing it is mentioned that the ham is from Spain

I thought it was going to be Iberico but I could have sworn he said it's from Portugal. 

[paigow]

6 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

A GUESSING GAME FOR THE SEASON (beta version)
Will Mable…

1.  
2. move into the Dudenoff apartment?
3. …

Only if everyone else on the floor is in jail

[cardigirl]

1 hour ago, Irlandesa said:

I thought it was going to be Iberico but I could have sworn he said it's from Portugal. 

I will rewatch again. 🤔  You may be right. I tend to think of them as the same, which is wrong of me.

_________________________________________________________________

Presunto (Portuguese: [pɾɨˈzũtu]) is dry-cured ham from Portugal, similar to Italian prosciutto or Spanish jamón. Among the wide variety of presuntos in Portugal, the most famous are presunto from Chaves, produced in the north of Portugal, and that from the Alentejo, in the south, made from local Alentejano pigs.[citation needed]

Several varieties of presunto are protected by European law with geographical indications.

Edited September 3 by cardigirl

[Snapdragon]

I'm assuming that Dudenoff isn't a last name but an abbreviation and that the other tenants use the apartment for something (running an illegal ham business?).  Dude and office?  Though I'm not sure what dude would be short for.  Doodling? 

As well acted as they were, I don't really buy the Charles and Sazz were the best of friends thing.  She was dating his ex (who attempted to kill him, no less), which doesn't speak that much to true friendship.  Also, this season is taking "the gang puts off calling the police" to new levels.  Besides not reporting Sazz's murder (and contaminating two crine scenes), they also didn't report an escaped murderer (who, given that she had guard brains on her clothes, they know just killed again).

 

[Snazzy Daisy]

TAP IN — Sazz tapped in for Charles and took the hit. Now Charles needs to find the person who killed her and wants to kill him by tapping in and making it about him.

Quote

“Me being dead is the least of your problem.”

This episode does a great job in showing how important Sazz is to Charles. The bathroom scene is simultaneously heartbreaking and funny. That’s a great testament to Steve Martin’s dramatic and comedic abilities. 👏🏻 

Ohh, the trio has got to start wearing gloves when they investigate.

OliMabel approaching the Westies by telling them about location scouting - good thinking. The Westies would be more open and less alert.

 

CLUES:

🔹“West Tower Arconia” — Sazz was looking into the Westies.

🔹“Number 14” on the napkin — Saz was focusing on the Westies from this particular floor.

🔹“ohhELL” (773440) — this is the password to get into Dudenoff’s apartment. Saz was suspicious of the group who gathers to play the game. All of them could be using that “empty” apartment for various wicked reasons.

🔹“Dudenoff” — Is he/she one of Charles’ obsessed fan? Charles was People’s magazine 8th Most Beloved TV Cop in 1991.

🔹“Looking at Charles” — Dudenoff could be spending time watching Charles from the apartment, like a private viewing etc.

🔹“Long game” — could the killer be someone from Charles’s past?

🔹Ham radio — Sazz was talking about this and some chatters in S03. And there it is, a ham radio in Dudenoff’s apartment.

🔹Jan — she is not the killer for this season. She thinks snipers are a**holes because the method they use isn’t intimate enough for her.

Looking forward to meet Christmas-All-The-Time Guy next week! 😘

 

[Affogato]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gates_of_Heaven
 

Gates of Heaven is a 1978 American independent[1]documentary film produced, directed, and edited by Errol Morrisabout the pet cemetery business. It was made when Morris was unknown and did much to launch his career.

[Affogato]

• Charles isn’t brave and has low self esteem. Sazz took his risks for him.  This season is about him flying without a net. I do believe they were friends. Charles doesn’t have many. 
• jan probably left the prison guard brain shirt in Charles’s apartment. Proof she was there. 
• If it is a rental the dudeoff apartment should have records. Payment etc. in the arconia offices. 
• Charles was on hold for 911. They can’t complain about him not reporting. He was on hold.  

Edited September 3 by Affogato

[tennisgurl]

This season has been so good so far, as much as I enjoyed our trip to LA it feels great to be back home in the Arconia. I really liked having Sazz around in Charles's head, its like we were saying goodbye just like he was. Steve Martin did a great job mixing the dramatic and the funny, one never overtaking the other. 

I'm happy to see Detective Williams back again, her reaction to Charles reporting another murder and not calling anyone about Jan was perfect. The trio really need to start wearing gloves, I couldn't stop cringing at everyone handling evidence so casually. 

Awww The Notorious PIG, I hope Mabel gets to keep him as a pet. Mabel was so worried about Charles, it was really sweet. Oliver was very...himself about it, but its obvious that he does care and was trying to be supportive in his own way. 

I'm half convinced that Richard Kind never actually gets hired for any show, he just shows up on set and starts doing lines, and everyone just runs with it. The Westies are going to be a fun new batch of weirdos, but how connected are they to the murder? 

[KristenR]

3 hours ago, Snapdragon said:

running an illegal ham business?

Ham-terfeiters!

[chitowngirl]

I 😍 Mabel’s pleated trench! It’s $745 😩

Opening Easter egg-the ham was hanging in a window.

[txhorns79]

4 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

The Westies are going to be a fun new batch of weirdos, but how connected are they to the murder? 

I was trying to imagine wanting to take a bath or shower in a place where people hang up a pig leg and stab it as part of a game. 

[mikem]

Mabel and Oliver didn't know if the killer or anyone else was in the Dudenoff apartment when they entered, so it was a bit weird that they started turning on the lights and making noise as soon as they got in.  And I'm not sure why they all insisted on using the Luminol before the police got back, which was probably a good way of ensuring that if they found something incriminating, it would be questioned by the opposing team in court.  Why couldn't the police do the Luminol?

Although Steve Martin is knocking it out of the park, I have mixed feelings about how the show is stressing to us how much Sazz and Charles meant to each other (and they seem to have meant more to each other than I would have thought from prior seasons, so the creators didn't have to go into this direction).  Although parts of the show in prior seasons have been quite deep and affecting, Only Murders in the Building is generally a fairly light comedy about murder.  But, in real life, the murder of someone you cared about would not be comedic at all in any way.  It would be a horrible, horrible thing.  How goofy can Charles be when his close friend was murdered in his apartment, especially when it may indirectly be because of him?  Unless Sazz isn't actually dead, it will be a real challenge for the creators to tread the tonal tightrope successfully across the entire season.  

[paigow]

15 hours ago, Affogato said:

• Charles was on hold for 911. They can’t complain about him not reporting. He was on hold.  

Except Sazz was murdered last week  [according to Mabel]

[Affogato]

37 minutes ago, paigow said:

Except Sazz was murdered last week  [according to Mabel]

They just discovered it, though.  Granted there were clues, but nothing definite. 

[Ohiopirate02]

15 minutes ago, Affogato said:

They just discovered it, though.  Granted there were clues, but nothing definite. 

They only other thing they could have done was to call Detective Williams's cell. After 3 murders in the building, one of them should have her cell. But with everything else going on like Jan escaping from prison, she may not have picked up a call from Mabel or Oliver. 

[chaifan]

I'm very happy that Sazz's ghost is hanging around, as well as the old interview clips.  I really like Jane Lynch in this role, and I was hoping we'd get to see more of her.

Sazz's ghost keeping Charles company helps keep this a comedy in light of the aspect that one of his closest friends was just murdered, and he himself is a murder target.  That's why it works.  I agree that we weren't shown this friendship to be this close in the first 2 seasons, but that's ok with me.  I don't see it as a retcon, I just see it as information that wasn't pertinent to the plot lines of the first 2 seasons, so it could have well existed but just wasn't discussed on screen.

I loved the introduction of the Westies.  Not so thrilled about Jan coming back.  I just don't enjoy the character.  But nice callback to the hidden passages.

I love how we keep seeing Mabel coveting random empty apartments.  You'd think they'd be getting their money from the studio pretty quick after signing their life rights away.  She doesn't have to be homeless for long.

 

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

They only other thing they could have done was to call Detective Williams's cell. After 3 murders in the building, one of them should have her cell.

Oops

 

35 minutes ago, chaifan said:

Sazz's ghost keeping Charles company helps keep this a comedy in light of the aspect that one of his closest friends was just murdered, and he himself is a murder target.  That's why it works.  I agree that we weren't shown this friendship to be this close in the first 2 seasons, but that's ok with me.  I don't see it as a retcon, I just see it as information that wasn't pertinent to the plot lines of the first 2 seasons, so it could have well existed but just wasn't discussed on screen.

Also, as an older person myself, I've experienced that the death of someone I hadn't been "close" to often triggers a longing that we had been closer. I see Charles going through this.
A loss is a loss.

Edited September 4 by shapeshifter

[Ohiopirate02]

33 minutes ago, chaifan said:

I'm very happy that Sazz's ghost is hanging around, as well as the old interview clips.  I really like Jane Lynch in this role, and I was hoping we'd get to see more of her.

Sazz's ghost keeping Charles company helps keep this a comedy in light of the aspect that one of his closest friends was just murdered, and he himself is a murder target.  That's why it works.  I agree that we weren't shown this friendship to be this close in the first 2 seasons, but that's ok with me.  I don't see it as a retcon, I just see it as information that wasn't pertinent to the plot lines of the first 2 seasons, so it could have well existed but just wasn't discussed on screen.

 

For me this episode did a lot to explain why Sazz kept on showing up at the Arconia whenever she was in New York. Finding out Charles was her person who allowed her to follow her dreams of being a stuntwoman in Hollywood with Jane Lynch and Sazz being taller than the average man gave me the sniffles (as a woman who is also taller than the average man living in a world that values petiteness in a woman).

4 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Oops

 

But see my next sentence as to why Detective Williams would not have answered Oliver's call. She would have declined him. And yes, I am assuming she has all 3 of them saved in her phone as a reminder to ignore their calls.

[txhorns79]

1 hour ago, chaifan said:

Sazz's ghost keeping Charles company helps keep this a comedy in light of the aspect that one of his closest friends was just murdered, and he himself is a murder target.  That's why it works. 

I think she said she was just Charles' subconscious manifesting.  She's not a ghost, which was why she couldn't explain her investigation.

 

1 hour ago, chaifan said:

Not so thrilled about Jan coming back.  I just don't enjoy the character. 

I'm with you. I feel like she served her purpose, and they just keep returning to that well, not often for good reasons. 

[chaifan]

1 hour ago, txhorns79 said:

I think she said she was just Charles' subconscious manifesting.  She's not a ghost, which was why she couldn't explain her investigation.

No, I get that she's not a ghost, she's just in Charles' mind.  I just didn't have a better word for it.  Imaginary Friend Sazz?  (IFS)

[SnapHappy]

That was fun, I like the pace they're setting with the story.  Lots going on, but not too much to keep track of.  

Ok, the pig was a surprise!  *LOL*  And Jan, of course.  The 911 call was hilariously sad and probably pretty close to what happens in NYC!  I love the cop! 

And when Mable says "Forgiveness instead of permission is kind of our thing", I totally related!  Bathroom ham, huh?  That's a new one.  It looked like a smoked Virginia ham, I LOVE that stuff.  And I am absolutely obsessed with the multicolor triangle tiles on Charles's kitchen floor!  I've never see anything like them before, except in a quilt.   

The last "talk" he & Sazz had was sweet.  

[Ohiopirate02]

On 9/3/2024 at 6:52 AM, cardigirl said:

The ham in the bathroom was funny, and I thought it might have been illegally brought into the U.S.

So I don't think Piggie Smalls was meant for the ham process, really, but maybe.

 

I also suspect that the bathroom ham was smuggled into the US or payment for either something done off the books or hush money from whomever is renting the abandoned apartment. 

There is absolutely no way that Piggie Smalls is destined to become ham. One cannot raise a hog in a studio apartment in NYC, slaughter said hog, and then process including smoking the meat without multiple neighbors noticing and complaining. 

[peeayebee]

 

On 9/3/2024 at 2:37 AM, shapeshifter said:

The ham-carving husband who is jealous of his wife’s “free pass,” Charles/Brazzos, seems like a too-obvious red herring.

I've seen that actor before. I looked him up. Desmin Borges. I really liked him in You're the Worst.

Quote

Was 773440 both the number for the lockbox to gain entry to the Dudenoff apartment as well as spelling the name of the card game played by the Westies, "Oh Hell" (wikipedia.org/wiki/Oh_hell)?

I thought that was strange. Yes the numbers worked on the door, but it's also Oh hell?

17 hours ago, chitowngirl said:

I  Opening Easter egg-the ham was hanging in a window.

I missed that, but I did see that Howard is walking Gravey.

4 hours ago, paigow said:

Except Sazz was murdered last week  [according to Mabel]

I was really surprised when she said that. I didn't realize so much time had passed.

I loved all the scenes with Charles and Sazz. They were beautiful (when they weren't being funny).

[cardigirl]

18 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

I was trying to imagine wanting to take a bath or shower in a place where people hang up a pig leg and stab it as part of a game. 

I don't think it was a part of the game. They were just getting "hits" of delicious ham when they would go into the bathroom. Instead of slicing some off and putting it on the table with the rest of the snacks, they would get some when they felt the need. Also, it's kind of expensive ham, so maybe they didn't feel like sharing it until Oliver "achieved" and then he was worthy of having some.

Although, it's still weird to hang a ham in your bathroom and not explain it to your guests. They were acting shady.  (Red herring.)

[Affogato]

Picturing a bathtub full of herring. 

[Chit Chat]

3 hours ago, cardigirl said:

They were just getting "hits" of delicious ham when they would go into the bathroom.

The Westies are a bunch of weirdos!!  At first, I thought they were going into the bathroom to do a line of cocaine, but no, they're taking a hit of ham!  

For such a sad theme to this season, "Sazz hands" has to be the best line so far!  

[roseha]

A lot to digest in this one which I watched immediately after seeing the first one, because the ending to the first was so upsetting that I didn't want to leave it at that.

I loved seeing Richard Kind, he does pop up a lot doesn't he, he even showed up in Elementary which seemed to find lesser known (but very gifted) actors in smaller roles.  All the Westies were so obviously weird though that I wonder if they will turn out to be red herrings.

Not thrilled with seeing Jan either so I hope her appearance will be a one off.  Maybe her appearance was partly there to encourage Oliver and Mabel that Charles was starting to go off the deep end.

Great scenes between Steve Martin and Jane Lynch.  Now that it's been brought up I really hope  Sazz is alive but who can tell at this point.

Great to have Detective Williams back, I can imagine her reaction to our heroes contaminating the evidence. Even Perry Mason was more careful in the old days.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

23 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

I was trying to imagine wanting to take a bath or shower in a place where people hang up a pig leg and stab it as part of a game. 

I was imagining wanting to eat a ham that shared space with a toilet that people use.

On 9/3/2024 at 1:26 PM, Snapdragon said:

Besides not reporting Sazz's murder (and contaminating two crine scenes), they also didn't report an escaped murderer (who, given that she had guard brains on her clothes, they know just killed again).

Except Mabel and Oliver thought that Charles was imagining Jan.  I don't know why he didn't show them the guard-brainy shirt.

I agree about the awful contamination of the crime scene once they suspected a crime had been committed. 

20 hours ago, mikem said:

I'm not sure why they all insisted on using the Luminol before the police got back, which was probably a good way of ensuring that if they found something incriminating, it would be questioned by the opposing team in court.  Why couldn't the police do the Luminol?

Probably because they selfishly want to make the discoveries for the podcast, and seemingly don't care about convicting the perpetrator.  Unless Det. Williams wasn't told that Sass had been in Charles' apartment before winding up in the incinerator, she was extremely negligent to leave the trio free to roam at the crime scene.

11 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

They only other thing they could have done was to call Detective Williams's cell. After 3 murders in the building, one of them should have her cell. But with everything else going on like Jan escaping from prison, she may not have picked up a call from Mabel or Oliver. 

Yes, I thought the same about calling her cell, but Charles was too distracted to think about it, and Mabel and Oliver didn't want the police to come too quickly.

 

[Snapdragon]

9 hours ago, peeayebee said:

 

 

I thought that was strange. Yes the numbers worked on the door, but it's also Oh hell?

 

Yes, it implies that the players of the Oh Hell game are the ones who set up the lock and are using the apartment for something.  It's a code that they'd all easily be able to remember.

[sjankis630]

10 hours ago, chaifan said:

I think she said she was just Charles' subconscious manifesting.  She's not a ghost, which was why she couldn't explain her investigation.

I know it doesn't really mean anything but I believe subconscious Sazz is the first time we have seen her character not dressed the same as Charles.

[Snapdragon]

On 9/3/2024 at 2:54 PM, Affogato said:

•  
• Charles was on hold for 911. They can’t complain about him not reporting. He was on hold.  

Eh, they could have walked to the nearest police station and reported the crime instead of just sitting around on hold for hours.  Also, police stations have phone numbers that aren't 911, so they could have just called their local station to report the crime that way.

[sjankis630]

I rewatched and it looked like Charles was on hold for over 4 hours. Lol

[peeayebee]

10 hours ago, Snapdragon said:

Yes, it implies that the players of the Oh Hell game are the ones who set up the lock and are using the apartment for something.  It's a code that they'd all easily be able to remember.

That sounds reasonable. Maybe they also had dreams of making their own delectable ham.

10 hours ago, sjankis630 said:

I know it doesn't really mean anything but I believe subconscious Sazz is the first time we have seen her character not dressed the same as Charles.

I didn't realize that! Good catch.

10 hours ago, Snapdragon said:

Eh, they could have walked to the nearest police station and reported the crime instead of just sitting around on hold for hours.  Also, police stations have phone numbers that aren't 911, so they could have just called their local station to report the crime that way.

True, but Charles was afraid to go outside, and Oliver and Mabel wanted to do the investigating. I think they also just wanted to keep Charles occupied since they were concerned about his mental state.

[paigow]

Is that ham made using the same methods circa Columbus for Trans-Atlantic sailing? Maybe everyone is consuming 20x daily recommended sodium limits leading to amplified eccentricity. Conversely, the meat has spoiled due to lack of refrigeration....

[DoctorAtomic]

I like staying as unspoiled as possible so I was surprised at all the guest actors playing 'Westies'. 

I assumed Sazz just left the door open to get the wine, and no one actually had a key to Charles' apartment. Unless he gave one out. I still think Charles was the target, but it would have to be a two person operation. Even if Sazz was the target, we know the shot came from the outside, so another person would have to take the body away. 

The show is really upping it this season. Fast pace with getting into the other apartment and meeting the others. Charles is really shredded over Sazz. 

I do like the acting challenge where one of the actors isn't 'there' so the others have to not react or look at all. 

So much ham!

[dwmarch]

On 9/4/2024 at 6:08 AM, chaifan said:

I love how we keep seeing Mabel coveting random empty apartments.  You'd think they'd be getting their money from the studio pretty quick after signing their life rights away.  She doesn't have to be homeless for long.

My thoughts as well. When she went back to take the deal in episode one, I assumed her old apartment at the Arconia was the price for her involvement.

[peeayebee]

10 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

I do like the acting challenge where one of the actors isn't 'there' so the others have to not react or look at all. 

I think about that, too. Some actors (not on this show) don't do it very convincingly.

I loved the shot where Charles sits down on the bench at the end of his bed, then the camera pans around to reveal Sazz sitting on the other side. I didn't study it, but I wondered if Jane had carefully positioned herself as the camera moved or if it was done in a technical/computer-assisted way.

[Yeah No]

On 9/3/2024 at 4:37 AM, shapeshifter said:

• Yeah, boomer, not everyone was alive when an apartment cost a bag of beans. I'd kill to rent anything.

Typical Millennial thinking there - Apartments in Manhattan never cost "a bag of beans" even back in the '80s or I'd definitely have moved there rather than live in the Bronx! Sure the prices seemed lower but so were salaries. Like scary low salaries. When I graduated from college in 1980 my classmates thought a starting salary of $20,000 a year in NYC was a FORTUNE. And we had double digit inflation and interest rates then too.

On 9/3/2024 at 6:52 AM, cardigirl said:

The ham in the bathroom was funny, and I thought it might have been illegally brought into the U.S., which is why it was in the bathroom?  (Edited to add that upon my second viewing it is mentioned that the ham is from Spain, so now I think they hung it up in the bathroom because that's where they had space for it.)

A lot of European meats are made to hang and they are often hung in delis. So I figure the shower rod might have been the easiest place to hang it. Otherwise both Iberico and Presunto hams are usually put in a special "holster" to protect it from pooling moisture in the wrong places and make it easier to carve in just the way it's supposed to be carved. But maybe this bizarre rough cut family doesn't own one.

On 9/3/2024 at 3:54 PM, Affogato said:

• Charles was on hold for 911. They can’t complain about him not reporting. He was on hold.  

I still don't understand why Charles took the second option and settled for being #68 on hold. I would have hung up, dialed again and taken the first option. Reporting a murder is pretty urgent in my opinion especially if the case is getting colder by the second. I'm assuming that hold choice was a realistic 911 thing in NYC but I'm not really sure. It seemed a little strange. I know it's not like that where I live in CT. When you call 911 near me you still get an operator not a choice. I feel like that was one of those comedy devices done for the show, but I guess you never know with NYC these days, LOL. It could be a real thing.

On 9/4/2024 at 9:08 AM, chaifan said:

I'm very happy that Sazz's ghost is hanging around, as well as the old interview clips.  I really like Jane Lynch in this role, and I was hoping we'd get to see more of her.

I'm happy we're seeing more of her too but I just want to clarify that we have not been told that this is actually Sazz's ghost. She mentioned to Charles last week (probably in other words) that she was a figment or function of his mind.

ETA: I see now that others said pretty much the same - I hadn't read their posts before posting this.

On 9/4/2024 at 9:43 AM, shapeshifter said:

Also, as an older person myself, I've experienced that the death of someone I hadn't been "close" to often triggers a longing that we had been closer. I see Charles going through this.
A loss is a loss.

Very insightful and true for me too as an older person. I lost a grade school classmate I had recently reconnected with on Facebook that I felt that way about. Although in that case it was also what the person symbolized for me that I grieved - a loss of connection to my past, although it was also a longing that we had been closer. Another thing that might be relevant for Charles here.

On 9/4/2024 at 9:45 AM, Ohiopirate02 said:

For me this episode did a lot to explain why Sazz kept on showing up at the Arconia whenever she was in New York. Finding out Charles was her person who allowed her to follow her dreams of being a stuntwoman in Hollywood with Jane Lynch and Sazz being taller than the average man gave me the sniffles (as a woman who is also taller than the average man living in a world that values petiteness in a woman).

Yes, and it shows that there might have been more feelings going either way between them than we knew about. But I always figured there were or she wouldn't have continued to connect with Charles.

I do want to say that society's valuing of petiteness only goes so far. As a short woman of 5'1" (and a half) I can attest to the fact that being my height is definitely NOT valued by society in any way. In fact I would say that model heights of around 6' in women are probably more valued than very short heights are in women. But I get your point.

Edited September 7 by Yeah No

[Yeah No]

On 9/4/2024 at 12:55 PM, Ohiopirate02 said:

I also suspect that the bathroom ham was smuggled into the US or payment for either something done off the books or hush money from whomever is renting the abandoned apartment. 

Hams like that don't have to be smuggled if they meet certain requirements, like being made in an USDA approved facility. Do we have any real reason to believe it was smuggled?

I feel like all this ham stuff is a bunch of red herrings or the connection is something we'd never figure out before the very end.

On 9/4/2024 at 8:38 PM, ItCouldBeWorse said:

Except Mabel and Oliver thought that Charles was imagining Jan.  I don't know why he didn't show them the guard-brainy shirt.

Charles isn't himself right now. He's in shock and walking around in a daze so I am not expecting him to do what he should do about anything. I am sure that he is questioning his own grasp of reality now, especially after seeing Jan and so he is unable to think rationally. I wondered last week when it was going to hit him or any of them that he might have been the intended target - well it hit all of them including him this week but somehow that's not shocking him into facing that reality any more than he did last week. I think it's all too much for him right now.