S04.E01: Once Upon a Time in the West

[peeayebee]

I just rewatched. I don't think I picked up any clues, but it was fun to see it again and catch stuff I overlooked.

One thing I meant to mention before was about the Brother sisters. Bev says they're identical twins. They're obviously not. Even Mabel gave a funny look when Bev said this. Why say they're identical twins when they're not? I know some people here think Sazz has an identical twin, so maybe this is a hint. Or a red herring.

And speaking of Bev Melon, I thought that was a weird name. I wondered if it could be an anagram. The best I came up with is Love Ben... M?

I also thought it was strange that when Charles' old driver from Brazzos shows up, we never quite see his face. Seems deliberate. And he's coughing a lot. There's got to be a point to all that.

Love that Hollywood house where the party is. And I also loved the courtyard of Sazz's apartment building. BTW, when they first enter the apartment, we see a bust in the foreground. Did anyone recognize it? Not sure if it was supposed to be a famous person. Didn't look like Sazz to me.

Oh, and I had thought that Jane Lynch was singing the song "Going to California." It's someone named Irene Karl.

[Ohiopirate02]

6 minutes ago, peeayebee said:

One thing I meant to mention before was about the Brother sisters. Bev says they're identical twins. They're obviously not. Even Mabel gave a funny look when Bev said this. Why say they're identical twins when they're not? I know some people here think Sazz has an identical twin, so maybe this is a hint. Or a red herring.

I took that exchange as an homage to Patrick DeWitt's The Sisters Brothers which is a western about two brothers Eli and Charlie Sisters. The book was made into a movie starring John C. Reilly and Joaquin Phoenix. 

[peeayebee]

Ah, that sounds vaguely familiar. 

[chaifan]

I don't think there is any particular significance to the western that Charles was watching, other than the voice over talking about how the first 7 minutes of the film has no dialog.  The last 3 minutes of this episode were shot the same way - there was no dialog, just music and normal sounds.  OK, they cheated a bit with the text messages, but still, no audible dialog.  But even without words, those three minutes said a lot.  Charles' expression as he's kneeling down with Sazz's implant in his hands is just so sad.

Someone said above thread this season is an homage to old Hollywood, so I'm hoping we see these types of tie-ins in each episode. 

 

[paigow]

Bev Melon ... Liz Lemon

[Yeah No]

7 hours ago, peeayebee said:

One thing I meant to mention before was about the Brother sisters. Bev says they're identical twins. They're obviously not. Even Mabel gave a funny look when Bev said this. Why say they're identical twins when they're not? I know some people here think Sazz has an identical twin, so maybe this is a hint. Or a red herring.

Scott Bakula dressed like Sazz, in a way like brother/sister and not identical twins. Just a wild association, don't mind me. 😉

[Rickster]

12 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I took that exchange as an homage to Patrick DeWitt's The Sisters Brothers which is a western about two brothers Eli and Charlie Sisters. The book was made into a movie starring John C. Reilly and Joaquin Phoenix. 

I thought the Brothers sisters were a reference to the Coen brothers, known for directing quirky movies.

[cardigirl]

I've rewatched this episode several times, still don't have a theory. It's tempting to think that maybe Sazz was wearing a bullet-proof vest, as she was investigating something dangerous, and was stunned by the impact. The blood could have been from where the bullet grazed her, somehow.  If she thought she needed to disappear, though, how did the "not your f--n friend" person get her phone?  Of course, it could be a clone of her phone. I guess.

So, what I'm trying to say is, I don't know if Sazz is alive or dead and whatever I think will probably turn out not to be true. I always have far more complicated theories than the show does and am never right. Ha ha!

Also still trying to find out who poisoned Oliver's dog, Winnie.

Also, at the end of last season (and this season picks up right after that) Mabel was staying with Theo. I would assume that was still true, even though she crashed at Oliver's after the party.

 

On a very shallow note, I covet Charles-Hayden's bedroom!

 

Edited August 30 by cardigirl

[peeayebee]

1 hour ago, cardigirl said:

I've rewatched this episode several times, still don't have a theory. It's tempting to think that maybe Sazz was wearing a bullet-proof vest, as she was investigating something dangerous, and was stunned by the impact. The blood could have been from where the bullet grazed her, somehow.

But she has a big circle of blood on her chest.

It's fun to come up with theories, but this is only the first ep. Certainly lots of misdirects, let alone a lack of relevant info. 

[Affogato]

16 minutes ago, peeayebee said:

But she has a big circle of blood on her chest.

It's fun to come up with theories, but this is only the first ep. Certainly lots of misdirects, let alone a lack of relevant info. 

I thought her hand in her chest could have broken a blood bag. 

Edited August 30 by Affogato

[Chit Chat]

Nevermind!  Can't get a photo to work!

Edited August 30 by Chit Chat

[Chit Chat]

18 hours ago, peeayebee said:

BTW, when they first enter the apartment, we see a bust in the foreground. Did anyone recognize it? Not sure if it was supposed to be a famous person

Here's a photo of the bust.  Looks familiar, but I don't know who it is! 

[peeayebee]

Thanks for that pic. I still don't recognize .... him? But I'm sure it's a bust of a famous person. This is going to bug me.

[shapeshifter]

9 hours ago, Chit Chat said:

The bust caught my attention too, but the captured image has apparently broken Google Image Search, LOL.

Edited August 31 by shapeshifter

[Quilt Fairy]

13 hours ago, cardigirl said:

On a very shallow note, I covet Charles-Hayden's bedroom!

Me, too!  It's so funny to see the huge rooms in the "Arconia" and then see shorts on YT that show tiny, misshapen apartments that are for really for rent in NYC.

I still think Mabel's odd dress is related to the fact that it's a hand-me-down from her aunt.  All the costuming on this show is a deliberate choice.   

[Snapdragon]

I for one hope that Sazz is not alive because the way they shot the ending scene, with Charles silently staring at the others in horror with his hands covered in Sazz's ashes was beautifully done.  I also liked how early on in the episode Charles said that Sazz was always whistling, then proceeded to hear whistling all throughout the episode, alluding to the fact that he knew something wasn't right with his friend.  

I'm assuming Selena's ill fitting clothes are due to the fact that with her health issues (lupus, bipolar) that her weight probably fluctuates frequently, thus making it hard to fit her for a consistent size.  This, for me, is also why the joke of Eva Longoria saying they were practically the same age didn't land because Selena Gomez (again, due to her health issues) looks older than her 32 years and Eva Longoria (who was a freakin' beauty queen, for pity's sake) looks younger than her 49.  So what is a seventeen year age gap looks closer to seven years, making it seem not so ridiculous that Eva Longoria would be tapped to play her.  What was odd to me is that they didn't bring up why Zach Galifianakis was playing Oliver, whom he is much younger than.  Also, does Chevy Chase not get along with Martin and Short?  Because it seems to me like this would be the perfect season to do a Three Amigos reunion.

But yeah, really enjoyed this episode and am excited about the rest of the season!

 

[buckboard]

It's by no means an exact image, but prehaps the statue is Oliver Hardy?  The tilted hat kind of makes me think that.

 

[paigow]

12 hours ago, Chit Chat said:

 

What kind of hat is this? Fedora? Bowler? Cowboy? Could narrow down possibilities... 

[Sundazed]

I thought that the Brothers sisters were a reference to the Wachowskis, who wrote and directed The Matrix.  They were formerly known as the Wachowski brothers and are now both trans women, i.e., the Wachowski sisters. 

[Affogato]

2 hours ago, Sundazed said:

I thought that the Brothers sisters were a reference to the Wachowskis, who wrote and directed The Matrix.  They were formerly known as the Wachowski brothers and are now both trans women, i.e., the Wachowski sisters. 

That was my first thought, but the western movie reference makes more sense 

[Chit Chat]

9 hours ago, paigow said:

What kind of hat is this? Fedora? Bowler? Cowboy? Could narrow down possibilities... 

It looks like a bowler hat to me.  

[shapeshifter]

On 8/29/2024 at 4:49 PM, Ohiopirate02 said:

I took that exchange as an homage to Patrick DeWitt's The Sisters Brothers which is a western about two brothers Eli and Charlie Sisters. The book was made into a movie starring John C. Reilly and Joaquin Phoenix. 

2 hours ago, Sundazed said:

I thought that the Brothers sisters were a reference to the Wachowskis, who wrote and directed The Matrix.  They were formerly known as the Wachowski brothers and are now both trans women, i.e., the Wachowski sisters. 

And then there’s the paper on the desk labeled THE 5½ LESBIAN BROTHERS INVITATIONAL GOLF TOURNAMENT:

— which is marked “LONG GAME.”

[peeayebee]

10 hours ago, Snapdragon said:

I also liked how early on in the episode Charles said that Sazz was always whistling, then proceeded to hear whistling all throughout the episode, alluding to the fact that he knew something wasn't right with his friend. 

I liked that, too. And that it was the wind whistling thru the bullet hole was great. We all wanted him to go look at the window!

Quote

This, for me, is also why the joke of Eva Longoria saying they were practically the same age didn't land because Selena Gomez (again, due to her health issues) looks older than her 32 years and Eva Longoria (who was a freakin' beauty queen, for pity's sake) looks younger than her 49.  So what is a seventeen year age gap looks closer to seven years, making it seem not so ridiculous that Eva Longoria would be tapped to play her.

When she says something to Mabel like, "Tell me about all those piercings," I was confused because I hadn't seen a bunch of piercings on Mabel. But then I realized Eva is assuming all young people have multiple piercings. She's so hung up on getting into the mindset of the younger generation.

I had forgotten how funny Eva Longoria is. Great comedic timing.  

 

10 hours ago, buckboard said:

It's by no means an exact image, but prehaps the statue is Oliver Hardy?  The tilted hat kind of makes me think that.

I suppose it could be a terrible wax bust of Oliver Hardy, but, yeah, it doesn't really look like him. For some reason I keep thinking it's an old timey French actor. (I don't know why.)

As for the hat, I just assumed Sazz had placed one of her hats on its head.

[shapeshifter]

8 minutes ago, peeayebee said:

As for the hat, I just assumed Sazz had placed one of her hats on its head.

If it’s Sazz’s hat on the figurine, then it’s close to life size, which is larger than I imagined.

My mom had a few small, cute, whimsical clown figurines acquired before the scary clown movies ruined clowns. The face of the statue seems like it’s also from 50 or more years ago, perhaps just selected by the show’s set dressers for its creepy effect.

Or maybe it’s just Sazz’s hat tree.

Edited August 31 by shapeshifter

[Chit Chat]

1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

Or maybe it’s just Sazz’s hat tree.

That's what I was thinking.  The bust is creepy enough with the hat, but I think it would be even creepier without it!! Whoever it is, Sazz apparently liked it.  It shows her quirky side. 

[dwmarch]

14 hours ago, Quilt Fairy said:

I still think Mabel's odd dress is related to the fact that it's a hand-me-down from her aunt.

I assumed the opposite. I thought that since they weren't expecting to end up at a party, no one packed party clothes. Hence, Mabel's party dress is a loaner from someone or was bought secondhand in a hurry and that's why it doesn't have the best fit.

[LuvMyShows]

On 8/29/2024 at 9:14 AM, peeayebee said:

I will say that I loved that Hollywood scene of a stereotypical NYC street. Lots of great little jokes.

I think that scene was just for fun, and to potentially be a zinger to anyone who thought they were watching a NYC scene and then it turned out to be a film set.

4 hours ago, peeayebee said:

I liked that, too. And that it was the wind whistling thru the bullet hole was great. We all wanted him to go look at the window!

I had a lot of trouble with this. It doesn't appear that Charles went in search of the source of the whistling, nor did he notice the fairly substantial hole in his window, nor did it appear that there was a draft felt near that spot, nor did there appear to be a temperature difference near that spot.

On 8/28/2024 at 7:35 AM, highway61 said:

And yeah, the negotiation... Don't Oliver and Charles have agents? I think they've even talked about them.

And I also had a big problem with this. During that scene, I actually kept waiting for one of them to say the sensible thing, about needing time to look over the contract. I forgot about the agent angle...which makes it much worse!

[Chit Chat]

22 minutes ago, LuvMyShows said:

During that scene, I actually kept waiting for one of them to say the sensible thing, about needing time to look over the contract. I forgot about the agent angle...which makes it much worse!

That should be second nature to them: "Call my agent!"  Maybe they got caught up in the moment and thought they could handle it. 

Mabel seems to have managed her situation quite well as a newbie to this game (going by the guy's reaction when she handed Molly Shannon her demands!) 

[Quilt Fairy]

4 hours ago, dwmarch said:

I assumed the opposite. I thought that since they weren't expecting to end up at a party, no one packed party clothes. Hence, Mabel's party dress is a loaner from someone or was bought secondhand in a hurry and that's why it doesn't have the best fit.

That's an excellent point.

[KarenX]

The bust is a tribute to Kevin Malone, obvs.

[chitowngirl]

I wonder what Mabel’s “terms” will turn out to be? Did she undervalue herself? Get an apartment in the Arcona? 🤔

[JenE4]

On 8/31/2024 at 9:20 AM, shapeshifter said:

And then there’s the paper on the desk labeled THE 5½ LESBIAN BROTHERS INVITATIONAL GOLF TOURNAMENT:

— which is marked “LONG GAME.”

I think this will be one of the red herring clues that will have our trio speculating on the “long game” motives of the Brothers sisters for one episode, just for it to ultimately end up being about their golf prowess. I don’t know anything about golf, but I think “long game” means you’re particularly good at driving vs “short game” being better at putting, or something like that. But this “clue” is far too obvious that the sisters are in no way up to some long con, lol.

[paigow]

43 minutes ago, JenE4 said:

But this “clue” is far too obvious that the sisters are in no way up to some long con, lol.

Sazz was running a long con on the sisters... they found out and called Cut! 

[peeayebee]

Does "5 1/2 Lesbian Brothers" mean anything to anyone?

[DoctorAtomic]

I tend to think tv is overwritten, so just taking away the dialogue at the end was just brilliantly done and very chilling. Steve Martin killed that last shot. Horrifying. 

As much as I like the actor, Sazz needs to be dead and not a red herring. 

That was just a solid episode wire to wire. I wasn't expecting Molly Shannon and thought she was great. 

[paigow]

1 hour ago, peeayebee said:

Does "5 1/2 Lesbian Brothers" mean anything to anyone?

Oblique Broadway reference??? 5 1/2 Lesbians For 5 1/2 Brothers

[Affogato]

1 hour ago, peeayebee said:

Does "5 1/2 Lesbian Brothers" mean anything to anyone?

I think it may br “5 1/2” to the Lesbian brothers or something similar

[paigow]

One of the clues on the desk says Sick Pup ... likely referring to a person because Sazz does not own a dog...

[Affogato]

55 minutes ago, paigow said:

One of the clues on the desk says Sick Pup ... likely referring to a person because Sazz does not own a dog...

Or Winnie? 

[bosawks]

On 8/27/2024 at 6:53 PM, SnapHappy said:

WOW!  That was a helluva way to show a murder without showing a murder! 

Big callout to Gravey and her adorable cable knit sweater. Kudos to wardrobe for binging on more handcrafter items, Howard's granny square cardi was adorable.

I have to admit to being completely distracted by my 2 sharing Gravey’s stylist!

[pasdetrois]

On 8/27/2024 at 7:17 PM, LakeGal said:

My labradoodle died in February.  His name was Gravy. 

I know two Labs named Grits and Gravy. Guess what colors they are.

Condolences on your loss.

I thought it very odd that Mabel wore TWO sequin-y dresses in one episode. As if wardrobe had to make last-minute costume changes.

Love seeing Zach. The man is a chameleon.

[mikem]

On 8/29/2024 at 4:38 PM, peeayebee said:

I also thought it was strange that when Charles' old driver from Brazzos shows up, we never quite see his face. Seems deliberate. And he's coughing a lot. There's got to be a point to all that.

I also thought that was very peculiar, and as peeayebee said, must be deliberate.  They went through some trouble to introduce the character and to deliberately show the character at certain camera angles so you couldn't make out his face well.  At first, I thought it might have been Sazz in disguise, but they showed enough of the driver's face that it wasn't Sazz.

It's also a bit confusing because, even though we don't see the driver's face, presumably Charles/Oliver/Mabel do, so it can't be someone they would recognize.  Although maybe the coughing is an excuse to have a raspy voice and cover his face.

Another odd thing is that, right before they get in the car, Oliver says there's one place he wants to go to first, but I don't think there was any follow-up to that comment.  Did he ever say where he wanted to go?

Edited September 3 by mikem

[Zanzibar]

1 hour ago, mikem said:

Another odd thing is that, right before they get in the car, Oliver says there's one place he wants to go to first, but I don't think there was any follow-up to that comment.  Did he ever say where he wanted to go?

When they are in the limo, they stand up through the moon roof and are eating In-n-Out food.  I just assumed he wanted to go get some food there first.

[Captain Stable]

On 9/3/2024 at 5:10 PM, Zanzibar said:

When they are in the limo, they stand up through the moon roof and are eating In-n-Out food.  I just assumed he wanted to go get some food there first.

But not dip? Does California not have dips? 

[roseha]

This season looks really strong to me.  I admit I didn't love the Hollywood production meeting scene, even though our trio were great and the guest doppelgangers were fun.  It's just I think that the producer/writer/directors seemed a little cliched, if that's a word, to me.  I was glad that they went back to New York though it clearly was necessary that they go to Sazz' apartment.

The ending was so dark, horrible and sad.  I agree that Steve Martin totally sold it.

I have to admit that although I thought of it in passing I haven't been seriously considering that Sazz might actually be alive, although the old trope of no body...in this kind of show does make it plausible.  Personally I hope she is although in that case there must be another murder coming to keep with the show's theme?  Or not?  Could it be in tune with movie make believe?

[meep.meep]

39 minutes ago, Captain Stable said:

But not dip? Does California not have dips? 

California has many dips, but In-n-Out is better

 

[cardigirl]

16 hours ago, Captain Stable said:

But not dip? Does California not have dips? 

Yes, I was surprised that the show had Oliver be the one to suggest a stop at In and Out.

Edited September 5 by cardigirl

[SoMuchTV]

On 9/4/2024 at 6:47 PM, Captain Stable said:

But not dip? Does California not have dips? 

 

On 9/4/2024 at 7:27 PM, meep.meep said:

California has many dips, but In-n-Out is better

Can someone please expand my regional fast food knowledge and tell me what a dip is?

Oh I just realized - this is a callback to the dips that Oliver was supposed to cut out last(?) season? 

[meep.meep]

And to the dips that he lived on during the first two seasons.

 

[Affogato]

48 minutes ago, SoMuchTV said:

 

Can someone please expand my regional fast food knowledge and tell me what a dip is?

Oh I just realized - this is a callback to the dips that Oliver was supposed to cut out last(?) season? 

I assume California is alive with guacamole and salsa. Which are ‘heart healthy’. Maybe he doesn’t like them as much. 

Edited September 6 by Affogato