S03.E10: Forever

[Alexander Pope]

I loved it when Chef Terry blew Richie a kiss, but I also had to wonder--amazing as Richie and the actor who plays him is, he was there for five days! I know they joked about it in the kitchen scene with him at the beginning but was that really long enough for him to make that kind of an impact?  Not mad at it, but not sure how realistic it was.

[chitowngirl]

I think Carmy associates Chef David as the place where he was when he heard about Mikey. I’m sure it’s hard to separate that. And I liked the clarity that happened with The Confrontation. Chef David is living rent free in Carly’s head. And if Chef David didn’t see something in Carmy, he would have ignored him, not try to make him better.

[tennisgurl]

I have pretty mixed feelings on this season, I feel like I'll really need to see season four before I decide on my thoughts on this one. It was frustrating, especially watching Carmy totally self destruct just as The Bear is getting started, but hopefully its leading to him finally dealing with his issues and having a breakthrough. It felt like a season that had a lot of things happening but also felt disjointed at times, I had a harder time figuring it out than the last two seasons. I still really liked it, but it felt like one of those transitional seasons where I wont know for sure how I feel about it until I see how it fits into the puzzle. 

Chef Terry is such a breath of fresh air, despite what Joel McHale might say she proves that you don't need to do a complete asshole and nightmare boss to be a great chief and inspire greatness in others.

I was right there with Syd on suspecting that Carmy confronting his old boss would end poorly, at least things didn't get physical, I was pretty sure Carmy was going to punch him. He wanted so badly to get some kind of catharsis from seeing him again but its obvious that this guy never thinks about Carmy or probably any of his employees and has no regrets about how he treats people. It seems like its finally hitting Carmy that he's becoming more like his boss who he hated and who traumatized him, hopefully its going to lead to him getting some perspective and some help. 

The bigger issue probably goes back to Carmy's dysfunctional family, it wouldn't surprise me that Carmy reacted so much to his horrible boss because it brought back memories of his mom, who we can gather also constantly yelling at him and was very critical and emotionally abusive as he grew up. 

I really wanted more of Syd this season, hopefully in the next one we can get into her head more and see her putting her foot down. 

[thuganomics85]

Curse you, cliffhanger!

After being underwhelmed by the last episode, I'm glad this ended the season on a more solid note.  Yeah, maybe there wasn't much movement plot wise, but I just loved watching Syd amongst these other chefs as they swapped stories, and hopefully learning more from them.  As hokey as it can be, it was just nice seeing what drives them and why they truly believe what they do benefits society in general.  A nice little love note to restaurants in general: which can be needed since the industry as a whole has really been suffering lately.

Finally get more of the infamous Chef David and, yeah, he's something else.  He actually reminds me a lot of J.K. Simmons' Fletcher from the film, Whiplash: someone who is brilliant at what he does, but believes you have to be ruthless, cold, and down right nasty to be the best at what you do.  But he truly thinks he is actually doing the right thing.  It clearly has done a number on Carmy and I hope he can break this cycle of abuse and trauma.  Joel McHale continues to be a great bit of casting here.

At least Chef Terry remains awesome!  Granted, I don't know if there will ever be a way for me to hate on an Olivia Colman character.  Even if she's officially done, I hope this isn't the last we see of her.

Great seeing Jessica again as well, and, of course, Garrett!

Luca must be protected at all cost!

By all accounts, Syd's foot seems to be out The Bear's door, but I'm guessing her panic attack and flashing to all the staff is hinting that she is feeling guilty about abandoning them and might change things.  Don't know: realistically, the offer seems too good, but it might be too good to be true since Chef Adam seems a bit ill-tempered himself.

Definitely being coy over how the review turned out.  Seems like a mixture of both positive and negative stuff.  The theory in that article linked is interesting.  I guess we'll find out someday!

All in all, not as good as the previous seasons due to feeling a little more directionless compared to the past, some pacing issues for sure, and I did feel like some characters were underutilized and some of the relationships felt fractured due to various reasons (it just hit me that we barely got any Carmy/Richie interactions due to their hostility, and I kind of missed that a lot here.)  But there is still a lot of strong points; directing; acting; etc.; and I can safely say that I loved four of the episodes (this, the premiere, Napkins, and Ice Chips), so I still came out satisfied.  Can't wait to see how this all plays out!

That said, yeah, I really think they need to start reconsidering this as a comedy.  House of the Dragon is almost getting more laughs out of me (in a good way) and there is actual murder and mayhem going on there!

[buttersister]

Quote

the offer seems too good, but it might be too good to be true since Chef Adam seems a bit ill-tempered himself.

Do we—or more importantly—Syd have details about this new place?  Who are the financiers, these “people”? What’s the location?  Price point? Name? Yeah, maybe Syd’s spider sense is asking those questions? 

 

[wonderwoman]

On 7/1/2024 at 9:04 AM, andidante said:

My peeve with this episode (along with everything you guys have said) is the amount of times the chefs said "like" when they were talking at the dinner. LOL

It just grated on my nerves. I know that is how some people speak, but good grief!

of course, compared with how often fuck is thrown around…

[EastCoast4Life]

On 6/29/2024 at 11:43 PM, possibilities said:

Joel McHale always plays assholes. 

Maybe it's because he's so tall? He was literally towering over Carmy. I think it's easier to play an asshole if you are tall, just my take.

I did like at the end of the conversation, he said "they're still doing this?" talking about the stupid ingredients hung from the ceiling. Agreed, Chef. 

Although this season felt very disjointed, I think that was the idea. The restaurant is disjointed. Syd might leave. Carm and Richie are STILL fighting. The review is the tipping point. Everything is chaos, even though the plates look picture perfect. 

[Blakeston]

I was not surprised when I learned that this season was only half of what was originally planned. (They decided to stretch out the third season into seasons three and four).

This felt like half a season. The characters barely grew. There was shockingly little plot development. The way they kept bringing up Claire, only for nothing to happen with her, was just terrible plotting.

The scene with Carmy and Joel McHale was very repetitive and stale. "You were an asshole to me." "Yeah, but it made you a better chef." "But you were an asshole to me." "But it made you a better chef."  It also felt very derivative of both Whiplash and the scene in I, Tonya where Tonya Harding confronts her mother. (There are probably other examples, too.)

And the Faks! What could they possibly have been thinking with all the Faks? Like others, I strongly suspect that part of it was the writers wanting to justify the show's inclusion in the comedy categories of awards showws.

But I also suspect that the Faks are easy to write for. Their nonsense basically writes itself. Too bad it was painful to watch!

[ProudMary]

This is what I got while we were seeing what was going on in Carmy's head when he was staring at Joel McHale at the adjacent table: Initially, all his thoughts were of the abusive treatment he (Carmy) had been receiving, but as the staring continued, those thoughts were interspersed with situations where Carmy was disparaging of Syd's (and others') ideas and contributions. I do think we saw some personal growth there.

It also seemed ridiculous to me that Shapiro didn't put some kind of reasonable deadline on Syd's decision, perhaps that he needed her answer by the end of the following week. He got nothing from their conversation other than that she was still interested. I find it hard to believe he wouldn't have been pushing harder for her answer.

I do wish we would have had closure on at least one of the open questions. I'd have settled for some détente in the Carmy/Richie relationship. It's wild that those two still aren't really speaking to each other.

Overall, I still enjoyed the season but it ranks third of the three, IMO.

[Dminches]

On 7/8/2024 at 3:57 PM, tennisgurl said:

The bigger issue probably goes back to Carmy's dysfunctional family, it wouldn't surprise me that Carmy reacted so much to his horrible boss because it brought back memories of his mom, who we can gather also constantly yelling at him and was very critical and emotionally abusive as he grew up. 

I really wanted more of Syd this season, hopefully in the next one we can get into her head more and see her putting her foot down. 

That is a great point about Carmy and how his family affects every relationship he is in, good and bad.

We got a little "extra" Syd first dealing with her father and moving and then her uncertainty about leaving. We they showed her thinking of all The Bear people she works with I thought that would tip the scales towards staying. I am not sure she is ready to run the show herself. Spending more time as #2 chef would benefit her. If she is good more opportunities will open up.

 

[MaryHedwig]

On 7/6/2024 at 6:49 PM, Alexander Pope said:

I loved it when Chef Terry blew Richie a kiss, but I also had to wonder--amazing as Richie and the actor who plays him is, he was there for five days! I know they joked about it in the kitchen scene with him at the beginning but was that really long enough for him to make that kind of an impact?  Not mad at it, but not sure how realistic it was.

That blown kiss seemed like a continuity error to me as well, but my mind tried to make sense of it. Maybe Richie has been hanging out at Ever, or partier with them after work, more than we know- maybe to catch the eye of Jessica.

[fishcakes]

On 7/1/2024 at 6:04 AM, andidante said:

My peeve with this episode (along with everything you guys have said) is the amount of times the chefs said "like" when they were talking at the dinner. LOL

It just grated on my nerves. I know that is how some people speak, but good grief!

I wonder if that was mostly unscripted. Everyone at the table, except for Carmy, Syd, and Luca, are real life chefs. Christina Tosi, Anna Posey, Malcolm Livingston, Genie Kwon, Rosio Sanchez, and Will Guidara. (I had to look all of these up; the only person I recognized was Tosi and only because she was a Masterchef judge for a couple of years.) I'm guessing they had the chefs just talk about their work and careers, with Syd and Luca chiming in to direct the conversation (Carmy of course mostly silent and fixated on Chef David) and then they put it all together in editing. I just can't imagine that many non-actors being able to memorize lines and deliver them convincingly.

[lucindabelle]

The real mystery is how all these people most of whom are under 30 know all the lyrics to songs from the 90s and earlier like save it for later and now laid by James. I mean that song is from 1993. It’s literally 30 years old, and I looked it up and Christopher store is only in his early 40s so…

 

The real mystery is how all these people most of whom are under 30 know all the lyrics to songs from the 90s and earlier like save it for later and now laid by James. I mean that song is from 1993. It’s literally 30 years old, and I looked it up and Christopher store is only in his early 40s so…

 

 Well it is true that often people are harder on students that they think they have real talent, it’s traditional in the ballet world, that does not extend to such things as whispering in their ear. You should be dead. There’s simply no excuse for that. Chef David did not even remember his name…  I think the tear running down Carmie’s face was realizing that he had somehow signed onto chef David’s view of the world because that is almost Word for Word what he said in the freezer, which is that he should have no life outside of cooking 

And the tear was his confirmation that he does not believe that it is evil. We didn’t get the full resolution, but I think the resolution is a reunion with Claire.

personally, I don’t think from what we’ve seen said is anywhere near ready to have the kind of control and responsibilities of a CDC. She can’t even bring herself to be direct about a contract, how is she going to manage his staff? She is passive aggressive, and she is in someway responsible for what happened between Carme and Claire because she put the thought in his head that he was losing focus. she’s such an engaging actress that it’s easy to overlook the fact that she really is an emo brat. I do think that Chef Terry made a wonderful point and that it can be about the people. I’m not so sure that’s true for diners, if you’re not a regular at a place, but it’s true jobs. $10,000 is a big difference but it’s not an insurmountable difference. If it’s the money alone, she should bring it to  Carmi and see if he can either match it or find a way to match it in bonuses vacation time, etc. 

it may be that we haven’t gotten enough of her backstory, but I just don’t think she’s ready from what we’ve seen. She wants to have control of a menu, but that doesn’t mean she’s ready to have control of the whole kitchen. I have experience in the kitchen so much of this reminds me of THEATER. I have worked as a theater Director and when they were talking about their nerves when dish one out for the first time my God, it was just like stage fright. reminds me of someone who should direct a few scenes, direct, be given some things to do under the oversight of the direct when she does better, she can even direct one show in the season. But running a theater, running a theater is a whole Nother skill that has to do with budgeting and planning a season and managing a staff and I just don’t see her ready to be the equivalent of the artistic Director.

Also, the way the other chefs were teasing. Adam gave me pause.  are we just to take his word for it that he has all this funding? She’s ready to blow up her whole life without having a lawyer or anyone else investigate how truthful all this is?

[aghst]

This show and especially this season leaned heavily into music.

Cool playlist but were they relying too much on music than you know better writing?

[Enigma X]

12 hours ago, lucindabelle said:

The real mystery is how all these people most of whom are under 30 know all the lyrics to songs from the 90s and earlier like save it for later and now laid by James. I mean that song is from 1993. It’s literally 30 years old, and I looked it up and Christopher store is only in his early 40s so…

 

The real mystery is how all these people most of whom are under 30 know all the lyrics to songs from the 90s and earlier like save it for later and now laid by James. I mean that song is from 1993. It’s literally 30 years old, and I looked it up and Christopher store is only in his early 40s so…

I realize I am an outlier, but I was born in 1975. I am sure half of my top 10 musicians (if not more) had their highest popularity in the early to mid-1970s.

[chaifan]

12 hours ago, lucindabelle said:

$10,000 is a big difference but it’s not an insurmountable difference. If it’s the money alone, she should bring it to  Carmi and see if he can either match it or find a way to match it in bonuses vacation time, etc. 

Carm doesn't have any way to make up an additional $10,000 in a budget, when he's already over budget. He has one financial backer, and Uncle Jimmy has already said he's not putting any more money in.

Whereas Shapiro is still in development phase, has "backers" with an "s", and likely hasn't completely tapped the well.  If he says "I need an additional $10,000 to get Syd", he'll likely get it. 

Music - I was a teenager in the 80's, and knew tons of music from the 50's and 60's.  My 18 year old niece just appropriated all my CD's of 80's music.  (I've never been so proud.)  A song being 30 years old and known by 30-somethings is normal.

[ProudMary]

12 hours ago, lucindabelle said:

The real mystery is how all these people most of whom are under 30 know all the lyrics to songs from the 90s and earlier like save it for later and now laid by James. I mean that song is from 1993. It’s literally 30 years old, and I looked it up and Christopher store is only in his early 40s so…

 

12 minutes ago, Enigma X said:

I realize I am an outlier, but I was born in 1975. I am sure half of my top 10 musicians (if not more) had their highest popularity in the early to mid-1970s.

 

6 minutes ago, chaifan said:

Music - I was a teenager in the 80's, and knew tons of music from the 50's and 60's.  My 18 year old niece just appropriated all my CD's of 80's music.  (I've never been so proud.)  A song being 30 years old and known by 30-somethings is normal.

 

 

 

I think we're getting into off-topic territory here in the season finale thread, but I do think this is a good (sub)topic for discussion. I'll respond in the Small Talk thread.

[Elizzikra]

Quote

If it wasn't a great review, the Bear was done. So, we do have that answer. Now we know next season Jimmy doesn't need to come up with an excuse for pulling out. 

I don't think we have that answer. I don't think that what we saw was the actual review but was like all the things it could have said or bits and pieces of all the other reviews Carmy has had written about him before. Or maybe it was his greatest hopes and biggest fears? In any event, I think it's definitely unclear.

Quote

laid by James.

Wasn't it originally Matt Nathanson?

On 7/10/2024 at 12:23 AM, buttersister said:

Do we—or more importantly—Syd have details about this new place?  Who are the financiers, these “people”? What’s the location?  Price point? Name? Yeah, maybe Syd’s spider sense is asking those questions? 

 

There isn't a location. Shapiro said that one of the reasons he wanted Syd's decision asap was so that he could start scouting locations. So if she goes to work for him, she is at least three months away from cooking for guests again.

[Elizzikra]

Quote

This is what I got while we were seeing what was going on in Carmy's head when he was staring at Joel McHale at the adjacent table: Initially, all his thoughts were of the abusive treatment he (Carmy) had been receiving, but as the staring continued, those thoughts were interspersed with situations where Carmy was disparaging of Syd's (and others') ideas and contributions. I do think we saw some personal growth there.

I do think that Carmy has finally realized that 1) he was treating his team as badly as Joel McHale had treated him and 2) that's not the only or most effective way to train people up, since his best learning experiences were from kinder chefs.

Honestly, I wish Carmy would wake up a little. At the end of season one, he gives a big speech about how friends and family night is all about making mistakes so they can learn from them. So of course, they all make mistakes but Carmy is the only one who didn't seem to have learned from them - or at least, he didn't learn the right things. The episode ends with the team salvaging the night - but under Ritchie's leadership, with Carmy completely out of it, locked in the refrigerator. Carmy built a successful team; they are more functional than he is and more functional without him than with him at this point. In Seasons two and three, he makes things worse, not better, by doubling down on his take-no-prisoners attitude.

We also have ample evidence within Beef that an kinder, more collaborative, mentoring approach works best. Marcus blossoms under Carmy and Syd's guidance and praise. Tina absolutely grows under Syd's tutelage; she even starts to seek it out when their relationship absolutely started out as adversarial. How is Carmy missing all this?

Quote

I believe Joel McHale was the last chef he worked for before moving back to Chicago.

I believe this is correct because in an earlier episode we see Joel McHale berate the shit out of Carmy; then he walks away and Carmy sees the voicemails from Sugar; cut to Sugar sobbing and saying something like "It's Mikey..." So I think he went home to bury Mikey and never went back too McHale.

[MBayGal]

On 7/8/2024 at 11:40 PM, thuganomics85 said:

can safely say that I loved four of the episodes (this, the premiere, Napkins, and Ice Chips), so I still came out satisfied. 

I liked Napkins for the most part, and loved Ice Chips, but found the first and last eps of this season totally pretentious and boring.  

[Ilovepie]

On 7/20/2024 at 8:37 PM, aghst said:

This show and especially this season leaned heavily into music.

Cool playlist but were they relying too much on music than you know better writing?

100% agree! I don't need the plot to move at lightning pace here, but there were whole episodes that were more about the soundtrack than dialogue or plot. The music on this show has always been an important "character" if you will, but it felt like a replacement for actual writing here this season. I do think the last few episodes were hands down better than the beginning ones, but overall, this season was a letdown from the first two seasons.

Things I liked this episode: 

Carmy listening to all of the chefs talk about their careers as he looks at the chef that lives rent free in his head as the villain in his life. Did he realize he is more like him than his other mentors?

The afterparty at Sydney's new place. Loved all of it.

Richie's relationship with Tiff now. One thing done right on this show is his evolution. Love him now. And his relationship with the team at Ever. Love it!

Marcus and Tina going in to work on a down day just because and working together to make a bomb cauliflower dish. Moments like this is where this show shines.......

In fact, the beauty of this show is made of the small moments between different characters, but for me the problem is that the macro story has been completely given over to hubris (I mean, what the hell was that beginning with all the old tv and movie clips??? My husband and I had to check we were watching the right thing!). I hope part four goes back to a smidge more plot and some humor derived from something besides the Faks being comic relief.

[statslady]

On 7/1/2024 at 11:00 PM, chaifan said:

And Episode 10.  I guess I'm not the foodie that the writers are writing this for, because I had no idea who any of those people were.  And I really didn't care, either. 

I guess I AM the foodie they're writing for.  I was literally fangirl squealing when TK showed up!  And I absolutely loved all the chefs talking.  I loved this episode mostly for this.  Yes I've seen these stories on the cooking competition shows too but somehow here it actually seemed more authentic.  They are not actually the focus of the show they can just relax and tell their stories.  I loved every minute of it.  

[paramitch]

I liked this episode, even if it maddened and frustrated me by ending with a "to be continued" non-ending. Especially since I think the ending was ready and waiting (more on that farther down).

But first -- I'm very divided on the real-life chefs showing up more this season. Especially this season, which is calling out the abuse and toxicity of too many kitchens (and the PTSD of their victims) yet some of the chefs who were lovingly spotlighted here (Thomas Keller, René Redzepi) have been directly called out for direct abuse (Redzepi, who admits it) and for fostering abusive kitchens/climates including sexual harassment and retaliation against those who attempted to report it (Keller, who has not said a word). Chef Kwame Onwuachi's account of his time at Keller's Per Se is brutal and sad.

Keller and his kitchens hugely inspired "The Bear" (showrunner Christopher Storer even worked with Keller on a documentary in 2013) and along with Daniel Humm and Charlie Trotter, Keller himself was a partial inspiration for the character of Chef David (McHale's abusive chef here). Keller's "Sense of Urgency" sign also inspired Chef Terry's fictional "Every Second Counts" signs.

So Thomas Keller showing up here like the Zen Grandpa, gently teaching Carmy how to roast a chicken, felt really weird and disingenuous to me. While Keller is not supposed to have been as bad DIRECTLY as Redzepi or Humm, his kitchens have been confirmed as famously toxic and brutal on participants. It feels pandering and false to portray Keller and Redzepi as these gentle teacher types when they have helped to create the very culture "The Bear" (especially season 3) is criticizing!

But then again, they probably wouldn't have shown up to do the cameos if the show had been more direct about responsibility there. The really odd part is that there is a curious kind of pride for some chefs about surviving that abusive kind of climate -- Michelin-star chef Paul Liebrandt did a piece for YouTube where he rated 11 fine dining scenes from "The Bear" for accuracy, and when the clips of Chef David showed up, he found them accurate and was not even uncomfortable with them, just, "Yeah, we want everything to be perfect and it's worth it in the end." It's a wonderful and informative video, but I was surprised that he didn't seem to recognize the ugliness of the Chef David scenes.

I was much more comfortable with seeing Grant Achatz (and the Chef's Table episode on Netflix about his restaurant Alinea and his battle with Stage Four tongue cancer is incredibly inspiring and moving), and his scene here with a star-struck Luca was very funny and charming. (To show another side of Trotter, the chef was also hugely supportive of Achatz in his cancer battle, so he had other sides, to be fair.)

Anyway. I feel weird about the glorification of some of the chefs who have contributed to so much toxicity and abuse, but I did like how it culminated with Carmy's confrontation with Chef David -- who just shrugged it off and was even proud of what he did because he felt it honed Carmy into the genius he is. I think that's BS, but it's very believable that DAVID thinks it's true -- and that he is unapologetic. But to see poor Carmy struggle to find the words, to even finally weep after David walked away -- that really got to me. Carmy has been so hard to access this season, so stone-faced, that just seeing him weep was a relief to me.

But what I still felt like we missed was one more scene.

At the very very end, when poor Syd goes into the hall and has her panic attack, I was absolutely certain -- absolutely certain! -- that when she looked up, Carmy would be standing there, stricken by the realization that he had become what he hated most. That he had perpetrated the cycle of abuse on Syd.

So the fact that Carmy remained wholly separate in the very end frustrated me and added to the sense that this episode just ended in the middle, breaking at a very strange point. And with Carmy separate as he has been far too often this season, and I think it weakened the season overall. It's supposed to be his show but he's felt barely there to me.

On the plus side -- I loved the farewell dinner (especially Chef Terry blowing Richie a kiss), loved the party, and I loved Chef Terry cooking up the "junk" from Syd's freezer -- so real-life cheffy! It reminded me of Alex Guarnaschelli's open love of over the counter cookies or chips, or Scott Conant's admission that he still misses Creamsicles. Besides, chefs are famous for eating junk at home, so Andrea cheffing up some hors d'oeuvres out of frozen pizza and waffles was awesome.

On 6/29/2024 at 4:58 PM, possibilities said:

I didn't think this season was that different than the others. The show was always about the journey of the characters, how they got to where they are, what their internal struggles are, and how the fate of the restaurant depends on whether they can get their shit together-- and we saw that as much in this season as in the others.

I agree with you, and I liked it, but I also think it wasn't successful at that because the arcs were not completed. There was too little resolution or movement across them for me, in almost every single case (except Sugar, who at least did have her baby). I hate where it left Carmy.

On 6/30/2024 at 12:50 PM, Jordan61 said:

I just wish someone would ASK Sydney why she's hesitating to sign the partnership, rather than just telling her to sign it. Carmy might not listen, in the state of mind he's in, but Nat or Uncle Jimmy would.

This is such a good point. Everyone assumed, but nobody is talking to her. And it feels unnatural to me.

On 6/30/2024 at 1:45 PM, Phillygurl said:

Yes plenty of shows end their seasons with cliffhangers but they could have tied up at least one major plot point. Just one. Carmy hasn't even had a conversation with Claire since the freezer. Syd isn't really talking to anyone at all about the offer or how she is feeling. The bear, we haven't even gotten to see much of how their nights are going or what they're serving, etc. No discussion between Carmy and Syd about how he has completely cut her out of decisions regarding the menu. Like really it just feels like a bunch of people living their individual lives, feeling their feelings and refusing to talk about it. 

One thing I felt made this show great were the conversations. They way they would be real with one another even if it resulted in a fight. It felt like that connection was missing. The only 2 great moments with conversation I could think of in the entire season was 1) Tina and Mikey in Napkins 2)Nat and her Mom in Ice Chips.

That's one of the frustrating things for me this season. Nobody is communicating and just saying what they need to say -- except Marcus! And Syd, with Marcus. And it's such a huge step back -- look at how bad Syd and Carmy are this season in terms of their friendship and partnership, barely communicating, and never one moment of that real connection -- I really missed their "apology" sign gesture and it was strikingly missing this season.

On 6/30/2024 at 3:45 PM, Irlandesa said:

The whole season of Carmy thinking of Claire should have ended in some kind of event with the two of them, whether it's Carmy reaching out, a potential reconciliation, or even Carmy walking away. Instead, we basically ended where we began, which didn't justify the time spent on them.

In the Sydney and Carmy story, their limited screen time refocused on a growing disconnect so it kind of went somewhere but an event to set up the next season would have been one of the following: Sydney confronting Carmy about how he disregards her opinion as a partner, Sydney telling Carmy about her other job offer, or even just showing Sydney making a decision on the job offer.

I 100% agree with both of these. Even Carmy sending Claire a text... just something to show the ice is breaking. He has been very hard for me to care about this season. There's just no "there" there.

And I absolutely think there needed to be something more with Carmy and Syd, as I described above here. I was so disappointed in their lack of closeness this entire season.

On 7/1/2024 at 8:00 PM, chaifan said:

And why isn't Terry partying with her own people?  Why is she hanging out with The Bear's staff instead of her own?  OK, fine, three people from Forks came with her to Syd's.  But where is the rest of her staff?  Why does she feel so much more connected with The Beef/The Bear staff, when we've only seen her have a connection with Carm and Ritchie?

I thought it was sweet and realistic for Chef Terry to go to Syd's -- we saw a fair number of the chefs and FOH people we had met in "Forks," plus several unidentified people at the party who could have been from her restaurant, for all we know. I thought she got exactly what she wanted, a real evening with a bunch of nice, regular people from her world who understood it, and the evening gave her a lot of joy. 

On 7/4/2024 at 6:57 PM, maddie965 said:

But give me some resolution!

Things hanging in the air:
- Carmy and Claire;
- Carmy and Syd;
- Carmy and Ritchie;
- Review (really, they couldn't show the f* review?)
- Restaurant closing for lack of money.

I feel like we were promised a whole season, but they gave us half. Even two more episodes might solve it. The way it is, The Bear is still miles above most of the shows out there, but was unable to give us a full, satisfying meal this time around.

I agree -- and that's why the character of Carmy suffered this season the most for me writingwise. Nothing was resolved, and so much was negative and tight and walled off. I get why, but at a certain point, I became frustrated with it.

I'm also still rolling my eyes at the $11,000 for Orwellian butter. It's one of the few unrealistic plot details that other chefs have called out, and I agree with them. There is simply no way on God's green earth that Carmy would be doing that with such a small restaurant (it's unsustainable even if they were booked for months), that Jimmy would be funding it, or that Nat would be allowing it. The idea that Carmy has had carte blanche the entire time and has been wildly overspending on even the most basic ingredients was just overkill for me -- the utter turnaround on the kitchen and menu was enough for me.

I liked this season and loved moments, but Carmy was weakly written, and I felt bad for Jeremy Allen White, who was given so little to work with this season. And so little attention as a character, honestly. He became a supporting character in his own show.

On 7/5/2024 at 4:40 AM, Haleth said:

Syd needs to run.  Run, Syd, run!  Even if the new job doesn't pan out, if the new restaurant fails she has now seen what a toxic environment The Bear person Carmy is.  Chef Terry brought out the best in her staff.  Even Richie was a different person in that environment after only immersing himself for 5 days.  Sure, when the restaurant first opened it was probably chaotic with a lot of mistakes happening there too, but the calmness and orderliness and respect that Syd witnessed will not happen under high strung Carmy.  

I did feel like that was a successful if sad storyline this season -- that Carmy has pushed Syd to the breaking point while being unaware of perpetrating the cycle of toxicity and abuse.

On 7/5/2024 at 9:28 PM, txhorns79 said:

The one thing I really got from the episode is that Chef Terry would make for an excellent party guest, and I would love to be her friend.  I'd also love a show that follows her story. 

I adore Chef Andrea Terry so much, and Colman's portrayal of her. I would watch an entire show about her (with hopeful guest appearances by Chef Luca). It would be so warm and sweet and kind -- the antidote to "The Bear" and its neverending anxiety and stress!

On 7/6/2024 at 6:49 PM, Alexander Pope said:

I loved it when Chef Terry blew Richie a kiss, but I also had to wonder--amazing as Richie and the actor who plays him is, he was there for five days! I know they joked about it in the kitchen scene with him at the beginning but was that really long enough for him to make that kind of an impact?  Not mad at it, but not sure how realistic it was.

I found it very realistic. Chef Terry had been watching Richie from afar and receiving reports on how amazing his progress had been from Garrett (and probably the other FOH folks too), and her conversation with him at the end was poignant and very personal -- she talked about the death of her dad, her lowest point, and buying the restaurant! We also know that in the month or two since (it had to be more than a month just given Sugar's pregnancy), it was implied that Richie kept in very strong touch with Jessica and the others at the restaurant, to the point that he "sent his love" to Garrett and all when he hung up from her. I think he genuinely touched Chef Terry -- and that she was moved to look over and see that he had not sat for dinner, but joined her team one last time.

On 7/15/2024 at 6:27 PM, ProudMary said:

I'd have settled for some détente in the Carmy/Richie relationship. It's wild that those two still aren't really speaking to each other.

I was disappointed in the lack of resolution there, especially when Carmy is just being a total ass about it after Richie's call and apology right after the opening. I hated how stony and unlikable Carmy has been this season.

[possibilities]

I really have no experience with the "fine dining" world, so that background info on the various chefs is interesting and news to me.

I agree Carmy was unlikable this season, but I thought the same last season when he was off in romance land with Claire and ignoring the restaurant. I thought this season was a pendulum swing for him where, instead of abandoning Syd and the rest of them, he overcompensated by choking them nearly to death with his control issues.

I also think that the fact that they managed better with him locked in the walk-in cooler set off his insecurity and need to prove to himself  (and them) that he's indispensable, and just like he was punishing himself for driving Claire away, he's also punishing them for not rescuing him or giving in to his craziness last season and validating his worth in the middle of his meltdown.

It was unpleasant, but I thought it was in character and very much consistent with how he's been all along. Self-absorbed, working out his personal issues at the expense of his coworkers and business, and lost in his various traumas. 

And thus, I liked seeing less of him. I prefer the show as more of an ensemble than as Carmy's Show. But he did come across very stuck.

He's much more likable when he isn't doing that. I loved the friendship between him and Syd, and when they collaborated on testing recipes and deciding the menu, and when he gets out of his own head and engages with the rest of the crew in some way other than tyrant. I think the show has built a lot of their tension around Carmy being a butt head, and that's a problem. They could have easily had tension through just the inherent stakes of a tough industry. But maybe they were trying to expose how Chef dynfunctions are the greater problem. Of course, this is undermined by the way they glorified some of the real Chefs, as you describe, and which I did not know about. Maybe they thought they could do both, and in that sense they did kind of fail. 

I also think the lack of resolution of most issues was frustrating. I'm regarding it as basically a split season, where they dropped the episodes they'd finished and are now making us wait a long time for the 2nd half. 

 

[Elizzikra]

On 9/16/2024 at 2:40 AM, paramitch said:

 

I'm also still rolling my eyes at the $11,000 for Orwellian butter. It's one of the few unrealistic plot details that other chefs have called out, and I agree with them. There is simply no way on God's green earth that Carmy would be doing that with such a small restaurant (it's unsustainable even if they were booked for months), that Jimmy would be funding it, or that Nat would be allowing it. The idea that Carmy has had carte blanche the entire time and has been wildly overspending on even the most basic ingredients was just overkill for me -- the utter turnaround on the kitchen and menu was enough for me.

 

I don’t disagree, but Uncle Jimmy’s response (“It’s dystopian butter?”) was one of the few time this supposed comedy series made me laugh out loud. So I forgive.

[Kel Varnsen]

On 7/5/2024 at 7:40 AM, Haleth said:

Syd needs to run.  Run, Syd, run!  Even if the new job doesn't pan out, if the new restaurant fails she has now seen what a toxic environment The Bear person Carmy is.  Chef Terry brought out the best in her staff.  Even Richie was a different person in that environment after only immersing himself for 5 days.  

I couldn't really get a read on what Carmy was feeling both before he confronted Joel McHale and after when he was walking down the street. I wonder if all that talk from the other chefs about the great people they worked for and the collaboration actually hit home or if he was too focused on hating and confronting the guy he became.

Which was extra hilarious since Joel McHale pulled an M. Bison on him.

On 7/10/2024 at 12:23 AM, buttersister said:

Do we—or more importantly—Syd have details about this new place?  Who are the financiers, these “people”? What’s the location?  Price point? Name? Yeah, maybe Syd’s spider sense is asking those questions? 

 

Whoever the financiers are they can't be any worse than the local mob boss who can pull his funding at anytime.

On 7/21/2024 at 11:53 AM, chaifan said:

Carm doesn't have any way to make up an additional $10,000 in a budget, when he's already over budget. He has one financial backer, and Uncle Jimmy has already said he's not putting any more money in.

It would be more than just a $10k difference though. Because owning equity in the Bear is basically worthless, what with having about 16 months to pay off Jimmy. There will be no profit sharing for a long time, if ever. And if they don't pay him off her equity disappears. At least with the new place she might make some profit at some point in that same time period. 

I will still watch the next episodes whenever they come out, I just hope there is more people talking to others about important shit. And fewer Faks. Maybe have Neil go back to being the handyman you see occasionally. Because why would he want to be a server and why would anyone want him working as a server?