S01.E03: Destiny

[paulvdb]

Quote

On a mysterious planet, the tragic journey of two sisters begins.

Premiere date: June 12, 2024

[Fool to cry]

Mae started the fire but I don't think it's what killed the coven. Definitely more to the story. I like this idea of different interpretations of the Force. Although I've already seen some idiots stupidly complaining online how this changes the lore. "The Force is a thread now?" No dumbass that's how that particular sect sees it.

Edited June 12 by Fool to cry

[thuganomics85]

Already get the classic flashback out of the way to find out what really went down and, possibly just as important, make sure Carrie Ann-Moss earns that Disney paycheck!

So, basically Osha and Mae were part of a coven that I'm guessing is similar to the Nightsisters from Dathomir.  Both of the girls have Force powers, but while Mae is all about that witch lifestyle, Osha wants to actually explore the galaxy and not be tied down to all of this witchy stuff.  And so she gets an opportunity when Sol, Indara, and the rest of the Jedi Four show up, test her, and she is able to be trained.  Just one small problem, there.  Mae is... kind of crazy and actually tries to kill Osha by setting her room on fire.  Yikes!

That said, I definitely don't think Mae will be responsible for the Coven's deaths.  It didn't seem like the fire would have taken them all on out unless it just hit the right spot or something.  I'm not saying that the Jedi were behind it (or if so, willingly trying to kill them), but there has to be more to this story here.

Cool seeing Jodi Turner-Smith as Mother Aniseya, and she made the most of her screen time.  Didn't realize that was Margarita Levieva behind that prosthetic as Koril.  I believe we didn't see her body in the aftermath, like we did with Aniseya.  I wonder if Koril is going to end up being who Mae is working for and pulling all of the strings?

Interesting that unlike with Amandla Stenberg as Present Osha and Mae, they have actual twin actors playing the younger versions.  I'm guessing a lot of that has to do with them not overworking a child/teen performer by having them play two different characters for what looked like a lot of scenes.

[tkc]

I’m not familiar with the Star Wars lore concerning the Nightsisters, so I’m not sure if they and their powers are what we were shown in this episode, or if Mae and Osha’s group were a group who practiced a never before seen way of connecting with the Force.

It certainly makes sense to me (though I’ve never really considered it before) that in a universe with this omnipresent energy that is experienced subjectively and mystically, that possibly many groups would arise with their own distinct Force doctrines and practices… not just the Jedi and the Sith.

All that to say that when I first heard Koril speaking, I was strongly reminded of Delenn from Babylon 5… the accent and then a not-quite Minbari head shape!

[Anduin]

I suspect those bodies had suspicious lightsabre wounds, or perhaps they were throttled to death by Wookiee hands. Interesting to see the two personalities here. Osha thinks the grass is greener, though she also has an element of running away from her problems. Mae though, will jump to the most extreme solution she can think of.

Maybe the Nightsisters are being used because they were the one faction of Darksiders introduced while Lucas was still in charge. Way back in 1994, in the Courtship of Princess Leia. They didn't get much attention until TCW, and they've been popping up more since then. A big element in Ahsoka, for example.

[paigow]

Chief Boden was needed on Brendok more than Jedis.... He would have identified  the lack of fire-retardant construction materials was a tragedy waiting to happen... But the witches correctly installed hand railings on the bridge...

[Kmr]

1 hour ago, paigow said:

Chief Boden was needed on Brendok more than Jedis.... He would have identified  the lack of fire-retardant construction materials was a tragedy waiting to happen... But the witches correctly installed hand railings on the bridge...

When you have a daughter named Osha it’s expected.

All flashback episodes are a bit too much. I do wonder if the twins’ creation is related to how Anakin is.

Not sure how to feel about that episode after first viewing. I think some of the negativity online about this episode made me expect more than what it was. I may need to watch it again and just judge it for what it is.

[MissLucas]

I'm just glad I watched this episode without knowing what's already brewing on the internet.

The witches have a long established history on SW. I wonder if we'll find out that they - just like the Jedi - have split in two branches. So far we've mostly seen them as wielders of the dark side and therefore joining forcing with the Sith (aka the Nightsisters). But maybe there were also witches wielding the light side. Or maybe they always accepted that there are two sides to the Force. I'd say scenario number one (witches are eeeevil) is the most boring one, scenario number two would be kinda okay, scenario number three harbors the best story-telling potential.

The coven presented here did not come across as Nightsisters established in CW and Ahsoka so I remain hopeful we get a bit more shades of grey.

Given that at least one of the Jedi involved in this 'incident' decided to disappear into a deep meditation ritual connected to penitence (and accepted the poison offered by Mae) I'd say more went down than just Mae losing it. The Jedi definitely came across as gatekeepers and if that part gets more challenged as the season moves on things will get interesting *gets popcorn*

[Spartan Girl]

20 hours ago, Kmr said:

I do wonder if the twins’ creation is related to how Anakin is.

Between Mae and Anakin, maybe it’s not a good idea to make kids out of midichlorians?

My theory is that while Osha’s mom paid lip service to letting Osha go like she wanted, she and the coven went to attack the Jedi to keep Osha from leaving, and the Jedi killed them, in self defense.

If that’s how it went down, sorry Mae, I still don’t feel sorry for you. You were seriously going to burn your own sister alive!

The internet people can just cool it.

Edited June 13 by Spartan Girl

[paigow]

40 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

she and the coven went to attack the Jedi to keep Osha from leaving, and the Jedi killed the, in self defense.

Physical evidence against that theory is so many bodies in the fortress...

[KeithJ]

I don’t think the Jedi really came across all that well here.  First they try quoting Republic law on a planet that isn’t in the Republic (the witches aren’t allowed to teach children their ways).  Why not?  Then the Jedi “have the right to test potential padawans?” Why exactly do they have this right?  Who gave them this right? I always thought children willingly went to train as Jedi after passing the tests but now I kinda get the impression the Jedi force the tests on them and then force the children to go with them.

I also don’t know why Osha wanted to be a Jedi.  She grew up with the witches and I’m sure they didn’t teach anything about the Jedi.  If they did, they most likely taught that the Jedi were bad.  But after talking to a Jedi for a minute Osha wants to be a Jedi?

Edited June 13 by KeithJ

[DoctorAtomic]

I'm pleasantly surprised we're getting a flashback already. They've done a good job of not dragging out plot; getting to the twin by the end of the first episode. And non Jedi Force users? Yes, please. 

Flashback Jedi Trinity is even better than Force Ghost Trinity.

Not for nothing, like the Jedi can't sense the children. That wasn't the best tactic there, Mother. And the Jedi don't take children? Were there different rules in the High Republic? Because I'm not buying it. 

I thought it was clever to get the kids to fail on purpose. And that lasted all of 3 seconds. To be fair though, if all you're doing is hiding out on a seemingly very rural planet, wanting to know what's out there is natural. I'm not seeing they had much of a life with the adults being snippy all the time and no other kids around. 

I'm actually surprised Mae actually started the fire. Unless she meant to burn the book and just dropped it. That seems like a lot for burning one book. There's no way she killed everyone. Unless they're implying the explosion did. I'm thinking the witches got into a fight over Osha. 

20 hours ago, Fool to cry said:

Although I've already seen some idiots stupidly complaining online how this changes the lore.

How about we get the dudeflakes from Star Wars and Doctor Who together, and I'll start the fire?

17 hours ago, tkc said:

I’m not familiar with the Star Wars lore concerning the Nightsisters, so I’m not sure if they and their powers are what we were shown in this episode, or if Mae and Osha’s group were a group who practiced a never before seen way of connecting with the Force.

I'd say this is brand new and you're not missing anything. I've never heard of the Thread before. Unless you guys are saying this is another branch of Nightsisters? This whole ascend deal is new though. 

There's no way the Jedi initiated any attack. That would kill the entire character of Sol. The witches might have been fighting and the Jedi tried maybe to intervene or came when they saw the fire and some of the witches may have turned to go after the Jedi. They've made a huge deal about Jedi not drawing unless they intend to kill. I'm not sure the three of them and a padawan could take out all the witches. 

I certainly can see why a young Mae would blame everything on the Jedi though. Given the trauma, I could even buy that Mae even blocked out that she started the fire. 

9 hours ago, MissLucas said:

Or maybe they always accepted that there are two sides to the Force.

Or maybe that's just what the most powerful made up to justify their own nonsense. People with different interpretations don't seem to live too long unless they play ball with one side or another. If they're calling it the Thread, then that's not a two sides interpretation. In a sense, the Jedi are holding Osha back if she's being forced to see it only one way. 

[CailynA]

51 minutes ago, KeithJ said:

I don’t think the Jedi really came across all that well here.  First they try quoting Republic law on a planet that isn’t in the Republic (the witches aren’t allowed to teach children their ways).  Why not?  Then the Jedi “have the right to test potential padawans?” Why exactly do they have this right?  Who gave them this right? I always thought children willingly went to train as Jedi after passing the tests but now I kinda get the impression the Jedi force the tests on them and then force the children to go with them.

I also don’t know why Osha wanted to be a Jedi.  She grew up with the witches and I’m sure they didn’t teach anything about the Jedi.  If they did, they most likely taught that the Jedi were bad.  But after talking to a Jedi for a minute Osha wants to be a Jedi?

I think it's as simple as Osha truly wants to be her own person not just half of the twin person her mothers and Mae were posting her to be. She may have seen being Jedi as the only way to escape. 

 

I'm hoping they show more of the flashback bc they really yada yada'd the whole everyone dies part.

[DoctorAtomic]

The other question would be how the Jedi found the witches in the first place. With Sol skulking around the forest in the first place, it looked like they were there for a while. I suppose their ship needed repairs, but that's a huge coincidence.  

[Anduin]

1 hour ago, KeithJ said:

I also don’t know why Osha wanted to be a Jedi.  She grew up with the witches and I’m sure they didn’t teach anything about the Jedi.  If they did, they most likely taught that the Jedi were bad.  But after talking to a Jedi for a minute Osha wants to be a Jedi?

She wanted something different from what she had. The Jedi were the only ones offering a change.

20 minutes ago, DoctorAtomic said:

The other question would be how the Jedi found the witches in the first place. With Sol skulking around the forest in the first place, it looked like they were there for a while. I suppose their ship needed repairs, but that's a huge coincidence.  

Yeah, I suspect they felt something odd happening on the planet and landed. Maybe a little rough to justify the repairs, but I bet it was deliberate.

[Sakura12]

The witches to me seemed like another branch of the night sisters. Koril looks like a Zabrak. They are just another coven that interpreted the force in their own way. 

But yeah maybe it's not a good idea to create force babies since they seem to get a dark side gene. I also don't believe it was just the fire that killed the coven. Torbin had his eye injury so they were in a fight. And both him and Indara knew it was Mae. They felt guilt over something. 

I know people get upset over any changes to the lore. We only seen the side of the Jedi and the sith. There have always been others that can use the force that haven't been with either of them. We don't know their stories.  

I do it find it interesting that they are always showing the Jedi just taking children from their families and never letting them see them again. Because they don't want any attachments. That is cult behavior. 

[Glade]

The Jedi are really disgusting trash, just showing up on this planet and throwing their weight around, and that delusional guy talking about how he 'made a choice' at 4 years old (!) to be taken away from his family and groomed, starved of love and attachments by this sick cult so he could become a political pawn of the republic.  They have no rights to be there or to 'test' people's children.

Edited June 13 by Glade

[absnow54]

10 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

I'm pleasantly surprised we're getting a flashback already. They've done a good job of not dragging out plot; getting to the twin by the end of the first episode.

This has been my favorite thing about the show. Both the Ahsoka and Obi-Wan series dragged out the backstories for their villains, leaving their motivations vague. It’s refreshing to have a show that gets straight to the point. I loved in the last episode when Osha found a dead Torbin first, and Yord immediately shows up behind her all, “I followed her and saw that she didn’t do it.”

10 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

There's no way the Jedi initiated any attack. That would kill the entire character of Sol.

There’s no way Sol initiated the attack, but I’m not as sure with the other three. Torbin was guilty of something to take the poison. And the Jedi are religious zealots just as the witches were. 

6 hours ago, Glade said:

The Jedi are really disgusting trash, just showing up on this planet and throwing their weight around, and that delusional guy talking about how he 'made a choice' at 4 years old (!) to be taken away from his family and groomed, starved of love and attachments by this sick cult so he could become a political pawn of the republic.  They have no rights to be there or to 'test' people's children.

I’m so glad they’re finally acknowledging this! Luke being “too old” at 19 to be trained was one thing, but as soon as they made 9 year old Anakin “too old” in canon, the Jedi narrative really changed. It’s nice to see them explore being “too young” to make that kind of commitment. Obviously you can leave the Order, but that has to be such an isolating experience. 

[paigow]

The Jedi Academy and Xavier School For Gifted Youngsters are 2 sides of the same coin... Identify mutants and train them to prevent harming themselves or others. Balancing this are Palpatine / Magneto archetypes recruiting mutants for nefarious schemes...

[Grimnar]

I quite don't understand some comments like Jedi are zealots, taking kids from families and don't let them see the parents in the future, etc.

I think issue is more with scraping the old lore and replacing it with whatever now is supposed to "work" in story we want to tell right now, if it will contradict establish lore or previous episodes.

Before there were other Force religions/orders/etc and it was never that Jedi are in conflict with them(Sith are exception) or are trying to ban them(if it was in old lore, please correct me). Now we have even contradiction like Jedi are using Republic's authority outside of Republic(in Ep I we had that on Tatooine Republic's laws are not applicable). And I think it can't be argued that it is 100 years before EP I.

Even the "Jedi should not have attachment" is not exactly correct. Padawan-Master is example of strong attachment. Jedi are more on teach that attachments should not lead to when your friend is killed, you are not supposed to go on killing spree or if someone from your family is dying, I am not going to use dark side of the Force to keep them alive.

About families, before it was that if parents didn't agree with kid being send to Jedi training, Jedi didn't just kidnapp the kid or it was mandatory to let kid be tested. Also later Jedi learns who were their parents(Dooku knew that he is from nobility) and could leave Order whenever they decide that live as Jedi is not for them or disagreed with Order.

But that happen when you remove lore and now are coming with new one even when it doesn't make much sense(why no one is using "Force-fu" in movies or Clone wars?).

[DoctorAtomic]

11 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

I also don't believe it was just the fire that killed the coven.

They did show a big explosion. What I didn't get is when Mae lit the book on fire, they cut into the room, and suddenly the whole door was on fire. It seemed odd that it escalated so fast, and then spread into the main room to cause the explosion. I still think the witches were fighting and the Jedi stuck their nose in a made it worse. 

27 minutes ago, Grimnar said:

I think issue is more with scraping the old lore and replacing it with whatever now is supposed to "work" in story we want to tell right now, if it will contradict establish lore or previous episodes.

I don't have a problem with the Jedi aren't as good as you think or Sith might not be totally bad, but there's been a long term deconstruction of the Jedi philosophy. It's a bit much. This High Republic era was purported to be a golden age. I get we're at the end of it, but you'd think Jedi Trinity would come off more sympathetic and reasonable to the witches. "Hey, we're not going to report you, but the kids are really strong, and we should talk about it."

To be fair, do the Jedi have to respect Republic jurisdiction? I can buy the argument about the X-men in finding kids and training them so they're not a danger. I don't know if just taking the kids is something that's always been around or was new. Also, there's not much for them to actually do otherwise. 

But it's always been compared to a monkish order from the jump so cutting attachments doesn't bother me that much. I just wish there was a middler road to not constantly make them out to be trash.

 

[Grimnar]

13 minutes ago, DoctorAtomic said:

To be fair, do the Jedi have to respect Republic jurisdiction? I can buy the argument about the X-men in finding kids and training them so they're not a danger. I don't know if just taking the kids is something that's always been around or was new. Also, there's not much for them to actually do otherwise. 

 

Jedi are like police force(or more like FBI) of Republic. They sometimes investigate crimes outside of Rebulic territory if clues lead them there but otherwise they operate in Republic territory. And so far it was portrayed that Senate or Chancellor can give them some specific order(Ep I - as diplomats to Trade Federations, in CW as Generals).

[DoctorAtomic]

They're not all FBI though. There's temples everywhere and it didn't seem like they were doing much of anything. I'm wondering if there are just so many Jedi around that they know what to do with. 

So I'm saying if Trinity, Sol, or the Wookie sensed that there was someone powerful in the Force, they can at least go investigate even if it's on a non Republic world. I'm not suggesting that they can legally mandate testing anyone. But Osha did seem interested of her own volition. 

What actually the rule of law is has always been tenuous. 

[tennisgurl]

I didn't expect flashbacks so soon, although I am sure that we will get more, there is definitely more to this story than what we just saw. I certainly didn't expect Osha and Mae being force babies, turns out that force really gets around...

It seems like little Mae always had a darkness about her, compounded by losing her family and her sister leaving, plus whatever person has trained her. Its interesting seeing what seems to be another branch of the Night Sisters, honestly I have no idea why people would be clutching their pearls over this addition to the lore, it seems to fit in just fine, we've always known that there were force practitioners and worshipers outside of the Jedi and the Sith. What strikes me as more wild is that people can create their own force children through some kind of ritual, even Anakin wasn't something his mom expected. 

The Jedi really came off as pretty smug and presumptuous here, especially considering they were outside of the Republic. I can understand wanting to find force users and offer training, considering how powerful they can be and that could easily cause problems with an untrained powerful kid, but asking kids to make a choice to basically give up everything to join them, now or never, seems pretty messed up. 

As for why Osha decided to leave, my guess is that she felt stifled as one half of the force twins and really liked the idea of seeing the galaxy, plus she didn't seem quite as into the whole witch vibe as Mae from the start.

[Sakura12]

I just realized if Osha and Mae are force created then Anakin has older sisters. Lol

 

[Anduin]

19 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

I just realized if Osha and Mae are force created then Anakin has older sisters. Lol

 

I love that idea!

[MissLucas]

Given the various meltdowns over Osha and Mae being created/conceived by the Force I'd be thrilled to find out that mother Aniseya was just a tad ahead of the Kaminoans and they are her clones.

Not going to happen but one can dream.

[paigow]

48 minutes ago, MissLucas said:

Given the various meltdowns over Osha and Mae being created/conceived by the Force I'd be thrilled to find out that mother Aniseya was just a tad ahead of the Kaminoans and they are her clones.

She also created a Bad Batch before Nala Se did...

[NeenerNeener]

On a purely superficial note....having seen what Dean-Charles Chapman looks like in this episode versus the makeup job they did to age him in the previous episode....whoever thought the monk's tonsure and facial hair was a good idea needs to be fired.

[paigow]

11 hours ago, Grimnar said:

Jedi are like FBI of Republic. 

Yoda: Impulsive you are, Master Mulder.

[NeenerNeener]

So Mae has been homicidal even as a child; it's not just orders from whoever has been training her since she and Osha were separated.

[Uncle JUICE]

Please don't do that to a wookie's hair again. Conceptually seeing a wookie's scalp is akin to seeing a bear that's been totally shaved, it absolutely affects their 'imposing' nature. Plus it looked absolutely horrible, like he had two big ass cheeks on his head. 

I don't want to complain too much about this show, I am really rooting for it, but I honestly cannot understand what anyone really LIKED about this episode. It just continues the tin eared dialogue pattern for me, like not a single interaction between two people ever sounds like two real people interacting, it always sounds like one is somehow 'declaring' something to the other. I want this show to be better, it doesn't need to be great, but it's squandering a good idea if you ask me. 

Also, fighting each other with only the force / thread NEVER EVER looks cool. 

And "Power of one! Power of two! Power of MANNNNNYYYYY!" dance can have a seat please. That shit was like a first draft placeholder. I'm sorry guys, I just couldn't keep it in. 

[Sarah 103]

@Uncle JUICE I'm not absolutely loving the series, but I also feel like everything we've seen so far is set up. I am willing to give them a bit more time to see where it goes and what/how things develop. 

[DoctorAtomic]

They really gotten to the main mystery quickly too, in only 3 episodes. There's a lot more to go for me. They know who Mae's targets are so they should be looking for the Wookie next. 

[Uncle JUICE]

1 hour ago, Sarah 103 said:

@Uncle JUICE I'm not absolutely loving the series, but I also feel like everything we've seen so far is set up. I am willing to give them a bit more time to see where it goes and what/how things develop. 

I feel the same way, like I'm giving it more time to sort of coalesce, but then I'm met with responses like "if YoU dOn'T lIKe it ThEN QUIT WATCHING IT," know what I mean? I'm not one of those SW fans who hates SW, it's just possible that this show isn't good, right? Can we say it's not been good until at least episode four?

What pisses me off is I know "Power of mannnyyyy!" is going to be a universal punchline in like six months but today people are like "Oh, come on, every SW project is bad at dialogue! This is fine!" 

[Ilovepie]

Man, I feel like every new show since Clone Wars that expands the Jedi lore just shows how they are such assholes. This show particularly.

First coming to a planet outside the republic, spying on the inhabitants and then walking in uninvited, interrupting their religious ceremony and throwing their weight around and accusing their hosts of doing something "against the law" that doesn't apply to them. Like why is what they do to kids ok in their religion but not these gals? Who made them the boss of everyone in this era???? It's basically might is right, which sounds a lot like a Sith IMO....Insisting on "their right" to test the kids. By whose authority???? I didn't even like Sol promising Osha that she wouldn't feel sad after this - like, no dude, her family is dead. You can't promise it's all going to be ok - that is a lie!

I feel like we didn't get enough back story to understand where Osha's desire to leave came from. And why she was so over sharing with Mae? Has Mae always been a psychopath and she knew it? 

I am still on the fence with this show, I hope the next episode advances the story more.

 

[Anduin]

2 hours ago, Uncle JUICE said:

What pisses me off is I know "Power of mannnyyyy!" is going to be a universal punchline in like six months but today people are like "Oh, come on, every SW project is bad at dialogue! This is fine!" 

It works better in the original Huttese.

[DoctorAtomic]

53 minutes ago, Ilovepie said:

I feel like we didn't get enough back story to understand where Osha's desire to leave came from. And why she was so over sharing with Mae? Has Mae always been a psychopath and she knew it? 

She did make a remark about them being the only kids there, and we open the show with her having run off into the forest. She also hesitated with the 'I'm for you and you're for me' when they were walking back too. I can buy that being shoved into this out of the way place to just hide out and be isolated could be tough. 

When the mother was doing all the Force Push lessons, it looked like Mae started pushing her around too.

tbh, I think she just wanted a break from everything and the Jedi offered a way out. Had the mother or the birth mother maybe just took her on a play date once and awhile, she'd probably be ok. 

I'd agree the one on one with Osha and the mother about why she wanted to test with the Jedi and possibly leave could have been tighter. I think we stepped into the episode where she was already frustrated. 

I don't think there's much to it more than that. 

I would have liked to know how the kids felt about being force babies. 

[NeenerNeener]

8 hours ago, Uncle JUICE said:

And "Power of one! Power of two! Power of MANNNNNYYYYY!" dance can have a seat please. That shit was like a first draft placeholder. I'm sorry guys, I just couldn't keep it in. 

I had Charmed flashbacks and started yelling "The power of three will set you freeeeee!" at my tv.

[MissLucas]

Well, writing for witches has been a curse ever since Shakespeare.

I'm currently reading he Discworld books dealing with witches so I might biased towards the coven - although Pratchett's most impressive witch would not have been impressed by the chant or the dance.

[UnknownK]

2 hours ago, Ilovepie said:

Man, I feel like every new show since Clone Wars that expands the Jedi lore just shows how they are such assholes. This show particularly.

First coming to a planet outside the republic, spying on the inhabitants and then walking in uninvited, interrupting their religious ceremony and throwing their weight around and accusing their hosts of doing something "against the law" that doesn't apply to them. Like why is what they do to kids ok in their religion but not these gals? Who made them the boss of everyone in this era???? It's basically might is right, which sounds a lot like a Sith IMO....Insisting on "their right" to test the kids. By whose authority???? I didn't even like Sol promising Osha that she wouldn't feel sad after this - like, no dude, her family is dead. You can't promise it's all going to be ok - that is a lie!

I feel like we didn't get enough back story to understand where Osha's desire to leave came from. And why she was so over sharing with Mae? Has Mae always been a psychopath and she knew it? 

 

The way I look at it is the Jedi are all born with a connection to the force and all they are doing is trying to find others like them and train them to use it in a way that benefits the galaxy (or at least not make a mess).

Do you really want Psychopaths with superman powers and mind control over the week willed (99% of the population) being trained by jihadi's, the mob, or petty dictators? It's not like the jedis are kidnapping random kids and turning them into child soldiers.

You have to pass a test to make sure you feel the force, and then willingly go to be trained in its use. The whole light side and dark side of the force we have seen in the original Star Wars can be boiled down to doing what is good for society and doing what is only good for yourself. The Jedis have a council to make decisions while the Sith are basically a one man dictator with a single trained dictator in the wings to take over.

[Megras]

My take on the jurisdiction thing is that the Jedi police force sensitives within the Republic with a remit to track people outside if they move to evade.

I think the witches were saying something at the start of the episode about having moved here recently and hoping the Jedi wouldn't find them.

Like most other opinions on here, I want this to be better than I find it to currently be and I am not prepared to watch this episode again so may have totally the wrong end of the stick.

[DoctorAtomic]

47 minutes ago, UnknownK said:

You have to pass a test to make sure you feel the force, and then willingly go to be trained in its use.

That's a tough point there. Just in this episode, Sol said he was 4 when he went off with the Jedi. That's hard to say he had informed consent, in an ethical sense. Yoda was bitching that an 8 y/o Anakin was too old, and, which I agree with the general point, someone that powerful probably should get some training so as not to be a danger. 

51 minutes ago, UnknownK said:

It's not like the jedis are kidnapping random kids and turning them into child soldiers.

They aren't, but the Republic did force the Jedi into being soldiers in the Clone Wars. I would suggest the likes of strong personalities like Windu and Yoda probably would have objected in a more realistic interpretation, but they didn't. I think that may have been a misstep because in the OT, Jedi/Sith/Force was considered a dead religion. Suddenly being a political body in the PT was something I'd say wasn't well thought out. 

54 minutes ago, UnknownK said:

The Jedis have a council to make decisions while the Sith are basically a one man dictator with a single trained dictator in the wings to take over.

The Council made bad decisions though. Which lends to my point that maybe they shouldn't have been a political body versus a monastic order. 

I do agree that the deconstruction of the Jedi as a philosophy has gotten to be a bit much. 

44 minutes ago, Megras said:

My take on the jurisdiction thing is that the Jedi police force sensitives within the Republic with a remit to track people outside if they move to evade.

I don't really have a problem with that precisely because political borders don't really mean anything. And, as we've been saying, if they sense someone is powerful in the Force, they really should check it out. I think the point of contention was 'It's our right to test them'. Again, informed consent. Jedi Trinity could have come at it with more sensitivity. 

[paigow]

On 6/14/2024 at 9:15 AM, Uncle JUICE said:

And "Power of one! Power of two! Power of MANNNNNYYYYY!" dance can have a seat please.

The power of the many outweighs the power of the two... or the one

[Raja]

2 hours ago, paigow said:

The power of the many outweighs the power of the two... or the one

The show needed a Kirk to give it the spice of life 

[Emily Thrace]

On 6/12/2024 at 6:58 PM, Spartan Girl said:

Between Mae and Anakin, maybe it’s not a good idea to make kids out of midichlorians?

My theory is that while Osha’s mom paid lip service to letting Osha go like she wanted, she and the coven went to attack the Jedi to keep Osha from leaving, and the Jedi killed them, in self defense.

If that’s how it went down, sorry Mae, I still don’t feel sorry for you. You were seriously going to burn your own sister alive!

The internet people can just cool it.

I wonder if there wasn't actually a third faction involved and that is who Mae is working for now. They may have been lead there by the Jedi and attacked the coven for their own reasons.

I also think the Coven probably has a connection to the witches of Dathomir. There was an Asian member of the group who didn't speak but got a fair bit of camera focus. Parent or Grandparent of Morgan Elspeth perhaps?

As an Idigenous person there was a very Residential school  feel to this episode. The idea that the coven was not allowed to raise their own children in thier beliefs is deeply disturbing to me. The Jedi came across very cop like in this episode.  It reminded me a lot of the image below. https://www.aci-iac.ca/art-books/kent-monkman/key-works/the-scream/

That said I don't think the show is saying the Jedi are really in the right here. This show is still about what went wrong and Jedi hypocrisy bubling beneath the surface. Offering it as choice to the children does make a difference but what does a 4 year old know about making that kind of decision?

I get the very Hogwartz idea of keeping all the super powered kids in one place so they grow up accepting of thier difference and are less likely to go rogue. However as Rowling pointed making that mandatory makes it less about education and more about controlling the power these kids have. Which is another interesting facet of the Jedi order. They are basically the ruling governments attempt to control the Force itself.

Which is why casting Osha, Mae and thier Mother as black women is actually rather brilliant. We see them go up against this clearly powerful white lady it gives a bit of shorthand to the power dynamics in play. It also makes Sol the Asian man playing more of a middle ground rather appropriate as well. Whether that was intentional or just unconscious bias might show in how the rest of the season plays out.

[UnknownK]

16 hours ago, Emily Thrace said:

 

As an Idigenous person there was a very Residential school  feel to this episode. The idea that the coven was not allowed to raise their own children in thier beliefs is deeply disturbing to me. The Jedi came across very cop like in this episode.  It reminded me a lot of the image below. https://www.aci-iac.ca/art-books/kent-monkman/key-works/the-scream/

 

I don't recall seeing any men in that coven and no children at all other than the two we focus on. Are those kids born to their "mother" or just stolen or created in some way.

[Raja]

1 hour ago, UnknownK said:

I don't recall seeing any men in that coven and no children at all other than the two we focus on. Are those kids born to their "mother" or just stolen or created in some way.

One mother said specifically that she created them for the other to carry. And it seemed as in a way the Jedi and/or the Republic, that they were not a part of, would approve of.

[Sarah 103]

On 6/15/2024 at 11:51 PM, Emily Thrace said:

I wonder if there wasn't actually a third faction involved and that is who Mae is working for now. They may have been lead there by the Jedi and attacked the coven for their own reasons.

I also think the Coven probably has a connection to the witches of Dathomir. There was an Asian member of the group who didn't speak but got a fair bit of camera focus. Parent or Grandparent of Morgan Elspeth perhaps?

As an Idigenous person there was a very Residential school  feel to this episode. The idea that the coven was not allowed to raise their own children in thier beliefs is deeply disturbing to me. The Jedi came across very cop like in this episode.  It reminded me a lot of the image below. https://www.aci-iac.ca/art-books/kent-monkman/key-works/the-scream/

That said I don't think the show is saying the Jedi are really in the right here. This show is still about what went wrong and Jedi hypocrisy bubling beneath the surface. Offering it as choice to the children does make a difference but what does a 4 year old know about making that kind of decision?

I get the very Hogwartz idea of keeping all the super powered kids in one place so they grow up accepting of thier difference and are less likely to go rogue. However as Rowling pointed making that mandatory makes it less about education and more about controlling the power these kids have. Which is another interesting facet of the Jedi order. They are basically the ruling governments attempt to control the Force itself.

Which is why casting Osha, Mae and thier Mother as black women is actually rather brilliant. We see them go up against this clearly powerful white lady it gives a bit of shorthand to the power dynamics in play. It also makes Sol the Asian man playing more of a middle ground rather appropriate as well. Whether that was intentional or just unconscious bias might show in how the rest of the season plays out.

Your analysis is brilliant and I'm willing to go along with the metaphor/symbolism. I'm curious if the wookiee jedi represents anything in this scenario. 

 

[DoctorAtomic]

Osha definitely made a remark early on that she and Mae were the only kids there. 

I could buy that there was a third party there. I don't think any of us here think that only 3 Jedi and a padawan wiped out all of them. 

We don't actually know why the Jedi landed there in the first place either. The ship could have just needed repairs, they could have been investigating the twins, or following something else. 

It's not like the Jedi were going to discuss anything. They should have.