S46 Ep. 11 "My Messy, Sweet Little Friend"

[bankerchick]

9 hours ago, WatcherUp2 said:

I'm impressed with Maria's game but I find it hard to like her. I want to (older woman kicking ass, yay!), but she's making it so hard!  It's the "You MUST do what I say!" approach that's such a turn-off,

This.  From the early episode where she went on the journey and got her back up because the guys lied to her in a game where the instructions were to lie, to her attack on Ben in the hidden scene, her gloating over Tiff's exit and at last night's reward challenge, 'make your case guys,' then when nobody would beg, her big speech about making sure everyone was fed then specifically not choosing any of the people who hadn't eaten, I get the distinct impression that this is one woman convinced her own shit doesn't stink.

[Nashville]

I really really wanted to like Maria, but she lost me when she went all stormtroopery on Ben’s ass.

[SummerDreams]

Still don't know who will win and that for me is a successful edit. The only person I still like is Charlie. Maria is a witch, Liz is a psychopath, Kenzie is a moron, Q is low IQ (pun intended) and Ben is irrelevant.

[Heathrowe]

A few thoughts on Venus since I liked her.

i give her credit for telling Maria no thanks to the opportunity to grovel for pizza.

She was a very gracious loser, both in the challenge which was close and her final exit.

I wish she had played her idol. It would have been good tv for one. I can’t believe she thought any of those losers would have her back.

Her social game was not good, but Tevin seemed to smear her from minute one. He was much more of a mean girl than Venus.

I’m sure there has been another cast as stupid and dislikeable as this one, but I’ve blocked them from my memory. I’m not sure I’ll tune in the rest of the season. Maybe for Charlie but the Taylor Swifting is tedious.

I guess I am curious if Maria could win. She seems to have peaked early/burned a lot of bridges on the jury already. The way she handled the reward was insufferable.

Edited May 10 by Heathrowe

[GenerationX]

Charlie and everyone else:  "It's the perfect time to get Maria."  Pause.  Maria wins immunity.

Kenzie:  "The only one who hasn't lied to me is Venus."  Pause.  "Boy, is she terrible at searching for idols!"

Everyone but Q:  "We can always get Q next time."  Pause.  "The winner of Survivor 46 is ..."

[Carey]

4 hours ago, SummerDreams said:

Still don't know who will win and that for me is a successful edit. The only person I still like is Charlie. Maria is a witch, Liz is a psychopath, Kenzie is a moron, Q is low IQ (pun intended) and Ben is irrelevant.

For me, I think a bigger question is the decision Sia is slated to make with the cast here

[fishcakes]

19 hours ago, ljenkins782 said:

And Maria's choice making was pretty interesting and not a great look. But it definitely makes it clear that everyone really loathes Liz on a deep level. Like, how bad do you have to be that twice in a row, people have an opportunity to provide food to a starving person and they find ways not to do it.

It's especially bad because Liz was the fifth vote Maria needed to blindside Tiffany. Liz has been salivating over the idea of voting out Q; there were finally enough votes to at least force a tie and then somehow Maria convinces her to vote out Tiff, who as far we know Liz had no problem with. Then within hours, Maria has the chance to thank her with some pizza and instead makes her ... fight Q for it. Haha, I hate them all, so it's fine.

[lilysmom]

On 5/8/2024 at 11:45 PM, Chicago Redshirt said:

 

What has Liz done besides complain about not being able to eat, complain about not getting credit for getting Soda and Tevin out, complain about Q overshadowing her great moves, complain about Q's denying her the Applebee's that is her divine birthright, laze around camp, and make weird and/or loud noises? I could be projecting, but between her allegedly already being a millionaire and her being unlikeable, I don't see her getting any votes. 

Love your whole post, and this part is spot on.

Well, except you forgot: Complain about still not pooping for 20 days. (Or maybe she was bragging about not pooping for 20 days.) I'm just not sure!!

[AEJ79]

What's the record for most people voted out with an idol? Everyone is so worried about "making a big move". Maybe they should be worried about staying in the darn game. LOL!

[Carey]

3 minutes ago, AEJ79 said:

What's the record for most people voted out with an idol? Everyone is so worried about "making a big move". Maybe they should be worried about staying in the darn game. LOL!

Yeah right.  You would think, based on all the "resume" talk that someone would at least make a move where they'd at least play it on someone else.  It might not work, but at least it's not going to waste.  For instance, Venus gives it to Kenzie or Q, they still vote her out, but then boom.  Someone gets blindsided for the proper use next time.

But this is absurd.  Even by the people voting.  At least thrown another vote on Q or Kenzie.  That way, if Venus actually played it, Plan B works out.

Probably a record number this season, definitely on a consecutive term.  The 2007-2008 TV year is still tops in terms of total blunder & stupidity when it came to being immune

[Chicago Redshirt]

14 hours ago, surfgirl said:

So since Venus did not come right out and tell anyone she had an idol, and Charlie can only guess, I wonder if anyone will look for the idol because nobody knows she had it.

Hypothetically, the Survivors may think that no one has found the idol after Tiff's departure and so they should keep searching for it. They are essentially priced in to go on an idol hunt anyway -- even in the shortened game, they seem to have plenty of downtime for it, hide-and-go-seek matches, rock trivia contests and what not.

11 hours ago, srhall79 said:

I did agree with her that Maria's way of choosing was shitty. I fully support the winner's right to choose who goes on reward, but don't try to dress it up, especially when you turn go against it. Ben hasn't been out, sure, feed him. Q took you last time, if you want to pay him back okay. But don't place his body breaking down with can't-eat-anything Liz, or Venus, whose skeleton you can study.

Maria grinning while talking about her tough choice at tribal didn't win her any points with me.

I think the optimal play was to just take Ben and Liz. It's easily justifiable as rewarding the people who haven't eaten, it helps bond them to Maria, and probably causes the least amount of harm to Maria's game. Especially when Kenzie and Charlie effectively said they didn't want to be part of the reward. Keeping Q on the outside doesn't seem likely to have blowback on her since Q is generally on the outs with everyone. I'm not sure why she wouldn't just step up and make that decision or make the decision on her own to take Q with no qualms.

Liz had every chance to "earn" her way to pizza so my sympathy is of course not with her.

[HurricaneVal]

My prediction for next week is:  Liz finds the idol and uses it, and whoever she voted for will go home, and it will be either "Kynsey" or "Been" and the chance at a power move to get out either Q or Maria will be wasted.  Because she is that lame.

Speaking of misspelled TC votes, as we were up thread, I read an interview a while back that misspellings, little decorative touches like hearts or flowers, or writing the name really big or really small were done so when the vote was obsessively dissected back at camp, you could clearly identify your vote by how you wrote it.  Smart players changed it up each time so as to not piss off jury members.

Of course, some players are just flat out dumb, so some misspellings could just come from that.

[Nashville]

On 5/9/2024 at 6:40 AM, Haleth said:

Hope [Venus] filled her face with pizza at Ponderosa.

Probably a good thing I’m not in this season - because if I got eliminated before Liz, derned if I wouldn’t have rest of the evictees prepped for the Best Reception Evah waiting for Liz whenever she did her Walk Down The Path Of Shame:

”Oh, hey, look everybody - it’s Liz!  Awww, Liz - if you were going to get evicted anyway, why didn’t you do it last TC?  You just missed out on the Applebees chef!  Yeah, he stayed over a couple of days, and we’ve been chowing down like crazy on the Best. Burgers. Ever!  - like, lunch and dinner every day!  And he just left out to head back to the States this morning!  I’m so totally sorry you totally missed out on them - they were phenomenal!

”So… want some stir fry?”

😁

[WatcherUp2]

I have a question for people with a better memory than I have: Has it ever happened before that the SAME idol went out in two players' pockets? And wasn't this the same idol in consecutive TCs?

This season will be forever memorable for its stupidity.

[suebee18]

16 hours ago, surfgirl said:

he's like a phoenix, rising from Arizona!

LOL, I see what you did there!

[eel2178]

On 5/8/2024 at 9:58 PM, princelina said:

Does anyone else think that Liz has "learned" to express herself on Survivor?  I think she's been expressing herself too much since day 1! 😄

. . . and not being able to express herself is what cause all her allergies (real or imagined)?

Yeah, right!

[iMonrey]

3 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Liz had every chance to "earn" her way to pizza so my sympathy is of course not with her.

Well, one could argue Liz had less of a chance to win that challenge than those who were well fed, just in terms of physical and mental dexterity. However, the larger point remains she had no business going on this show when she can't eat any of the available food. She certainly has no right to complain about it afterwards, anyway.

What if after the finale, during the "reunion" portion (or what passes for that in the new era), they bring out all this pizza and none of it's gluten free so Liz can't even eat that either? 😆

[SummerDreams]

3 hours ago, HurricaneVal said:

My prediction for next week is:  Liz finds the idol and uses it,

Nah Liz is allergic to the idol.

[surfgirl]

I agree, Liz had no business going on this show knowing that she is allergic - allegedly - to most of the available food. Honestly, I have never heard of anyone being allergic to everything she claims to be allergic to. But that's not the point, the point is Survivor is not about molly coddling contestants. Nobody owes her shit. Not rice, not a burger, nothing. But more than that, I'm pretty sure that burger had tomatoes and lettuce on it, so how could Liz even have eaten it? I mean if shes allergic to fruits she cant eat tomatoes because yanno, theyre fruits. Ditto pizza because, yanno, tomato sauce. 

[Carey]

I guess white pizza is the only option for Ms. Wilcox.  Speaking of options, there were...I guess more than an infinite number of them for the people casting the show

[WatcherUp2]

I think Liz might have a case of chronic exaggeration, starting with her millions, the number of things she's allergic to, and her poop status. Although, that last one could be true, because she's certainly full of shit.

[QQQQ]

My prediction for next week: The only move Liz makes involves her bowels.

[Valerie]

Now that Venus is gone, the only person I'd be okay with winning is Kenzie.

Mariah has always given me bitch vibes and this just cemented my dislike of her.

[JH Lipton]

Liz could definitely have a large number of allergies — there’s a condition called FODMAP which causes allergies to a broad swath of foods.  
 

I don’t think that Q can win (at least I hope not).  His constant quitting, his urging Charlie to throw a challenge (which Charlie should bring up, whether he’s in the F3 or on the jury), his causing chaos at camp — I think that only Hunter would vote for him.

i’d like Kenzie or Charlie to win.  Both have maintained a positive attitude in spite of the nonsense around them.

[Nashville]

Every time Liz starts tooting her “I HAVEN’T POOPED IN THREE WEEKS!!!” schtick, I find myself suppressing the urge to shout back at the TV, “LIAR!!! IF YOU’D BEEN BACKED UP FOR OVER A WEEK, YOU’D PROBABLY BE DEAD!!!”  🙄

Seriously - just for liability reasons alone, Medical would’ve already pulled her out of the game.

[DEL901]

On 5/10/2024 at 9:21 AM, Carey said:

For me, I think a bigger question is the decision Sia is slated to make with the cast here

Since Sia is under no obligation to hand out any money…hopefully this season she takes a pass.

[choclatechip45]

I liked this episode, however this cast is dumb. Venus what where you thinking giving hints about having the idol? 

I thought Maria's choosing for the reward was lame. 

[JudyObscure]

Remember Dr. Joyce Brothers, late night talk show guest of the 70's?  She got her start as a celebrity by going on, "The $64,000 Question, "  a quiz show where you got to choose your category of expertise.  Her category was boxing.   She said she knew she would get cast since it was an unusual specialty for women.

I'm starting to wonder if Charlie just pretended to be a Swifty since it's Taylor's big year and we don't expect young men to be big fans. It just seems really odd to me.

[Heathrowe]

I hope Sia gives her $$$ to Venus. 
That would be - chef’s kiss - to these losers.

1 hour ago, JudyObscure said:

 

I'm starting to wonder if Charlie just pretended to be a Swifty since it's Taylor's big year and we don't expect young men to be big fans. It just seems really odd to me.

 

Yes - I thought he said something early in the season that he had cultivated his interest in TS since it’s something most people can bond over/agree on?

[iMonrey]

2 hours ago, Heathrowe said:

I hope Sia gives her $$$ to Venus. 

It wouldn't surprise me if she gave it to Bhanu. She seems like just the kind of sap who falls for that kind of crap.

[Chicago Redshirt]

On 5/11/2024 at 12:26 PM, JH Lipton said:

Liz could definitely have a large number of allergies — there’s a condition called FODMAP which causes allergies to a broad swath of foods.  
 

I don’t think that Q can win (at least I hope not).  His constant quitting, his urging Charlie to throw a challenge (which Charlie should bring up, whether he’s in the F3 or on the jury), his causing chaos at camp — I think that only Hunter would vote for him.

i’d like Kenzie or Charlie to win.  Both have maintained a positive attitude in spite of the nonsense around them.

My take on ranked choice voting is of course pure guesswork.

But I think that most people would rank Charlie and Maria one and two, and nobody would rank them lower than 3rd and 4th.

Q is probably currently ranked 1 by Hunter, but 3rd or 4th by some, and so if Maria and Charlie are both knocked out have a decent chance to win.

Kenzie is probably ranked 1 by Tiffany, but mostly 4 and 5th by everyone else.

Ben is ranked no higher than 3rd by anyone and probably mostly 4th or 5th.

Liz probably has nobody ranking her higher than 5th.

All of this could change if someone makes a Big Move in the next couple weeks, or if someone does a particularly good or bad job of salesmanship at the FTC.

So my current forecast is:

Maria - 30 percent to win. I think she's made enough of a target of herself that people will aim at her. Liz is steaming at not being taken for pizza, so if Maria is available to vote out, I do think that she goes at 5. If she gets to 4, I suspect she is a better than average chance to do a combination of outright winning, being brought on or winning firemaking. And in the FTC, I think she would have a good case.

Charlie - 40 percent to win. He has a good social game, has shown himself capable of winning immunities, and no one seems to made moves against him. I think he knows that it's time to backstab Maria, but will he be able to do it?

Q: 20 percent. I think if both the above people get knocked out, Q is going to win against any variation of Kenzie, Ben and Liz. I think that he will pick up some stray votes in a TC that has Charlie or Maria. 

Kenzie: 9 percent. There's a distinct possibility that the coalition that booted Venus this time will like up and vote Kenzie this next time. 

Ben: .75 percent

Liz .25 percent

Edited May 12 by Chicago Redshirt

[SummerDreams]

1 hour ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Ben: .75 percent

Liz .25 percent

You are very generous. 🤭

[bankerchick]

5 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

I'm starting to wonder if Charlie just pretended to be a Swifty since it's Taylor's big year and we don't expect young men to be big fans. It just seems really odd to me.

No question, it's odd for a guy to know anything about Taylor Swift, but I can't imagine anyone pretending to be a fan could play a game of 'name Taylor Swift songs' for hours.  In fact, I bet there are a lot of guys his age who can't name one (and old ladies like me who can't name one either.)

Oh, wait.......   Shake It Off  (or perhaps Up?)  Not gonna waste any time looking that up.

[Chicago Redshirt]

13 minutes ago, SummerDreams said:

You are very generous. 🤭

I think if it somehow lines up that there's a Kenzie/Ben/Liz F3, Ben could potentially take it through likeability and getting votes from Maria, Charlie and Q plus a couple from the rest. 

3 minutes ago, bankerchick said:

No question, it's odd for a guy to know anything about Taylor Swift, but I can't imagine anyone pretending to be a fan could play a game of 'name Taylor Swift songs' for hours.  In fact, I bet there are a lot of guys his age who can't name one (and old ladies like me who can't name one either.)

Oh, wait.......   Shake It Off  (or perhaps Up?)  Not gonna waste any time looking that up.

I imagine being in your 20s and listening to pop radio these days it would be hard to not know the names of a bunch of TS songs, whether or not you liked them. And yes, it's Shake It Off. Shake It Up is the Cars.

[astrohip]

26 minutes ago, bankerchick said:

No question, it's odd for a guy to know anything about Taylor Swift, but I can't imagine anyone pretending to be a fan could play a game of 'name Taylor Swift songs' for hours.  In fact, I bet there are a lot of guys his age who can't name one (and old ladies like me who can't name one either.)

Disagree. There are a lot of TS fans, male & female, young & old. You'd be surprised how many. Or maybe you wouldn't, look at her stats.

I'm an older, white male, and a TS fan. I can name 30-40 songs easy.

Grateful Dead or Jimmy Buffett? I could name either's entire song catalog, start to finish.

[Rodney]

7 hours ago, iMonrey said:

It wouldn't surprise me if she gave it to Bhanu. She seems like just the kind of sap who falls for that kind of crap.

I doubt that she'd give it to a pre-merge/pre-jury boot.

[awaken]

I don’t find it the least bit odd that a young man would be a TS fan. 

[Shermie]

On 5/11/2024 at 6:14 PM, Nashville said:

Every time Liz starts tooting her “I HAVEN’T POOPED IN THREE WEEKS!!!” schtick, I find myself suppressing the urge to shout back at the TV, “LIAR!!! IF YOU’D BEEN BACKED UP FOR OVER A WEEK, YOU’D PROBABLY BE DEAD!!!”  🙄

Seriously - just for liability reasons alone, Medical would’ve already pulled her out of the game.

Not true. How can she be backed up if she hasn’t eaten? She can’t put anything out if she’s taken nothing in. 

I really dislike the use of “resume” in this game, and I’m not sure why. Maybe putting a label of importance on something so banal irks me. Besides, often jury members vote based on whether they like a finalist, or if a finalist schemed against them, or how good they were at challenges and survivor-ing. It’s not always about listing big moves (real or imagined) on some sort of fanciful “resume”.

[iMonrey]

13 hours ago, Shermie said:

I really dislike the use of “resume” in this game, and I’m not sure why. Maybe putting a label of importance on something so banal irks me. Besides, often jury members vote based on whether they like a finalist, or if a finalist schemed against them, or how good they were at challenges and survivor-ing. It’s not always about listing big moves (real or imagined) on some sort of fanciful “resume”.

Yeah . . . much as I hate to, I keep going back to Gabler. What kind of "resume" did he really have, other than what he imagined? He was dragged to the end as a goat, but wound up in front of a jury very bitter about the other two finalists. And gave them all a good laugh. He was a legend in his own mind but really wasn't a proactive player. The ones who made the "big moves" and got to the end just pissed a lot of people off.

I'd really like to see someone like Ben win, just for making it to the end without having to brag about his "big moves" and not being a smug douchebag.

[blackwing]

On 5/8/2024 at 9:04 PM, Rodney said:

Venus's mistake was saying that to Charlie.  Once she did, she pretty much had to tell Charlie what she meant if she wanted him to keep trusting her.  She didn't, so she spooked him into flipping on her.  And apparently, she spooked Kenzie and Liz into doing it, too.

But on the flip side . . . Charlie's one chance was this move right here.  Regardless of what Venus said, he should've just trusted her and gone along with her, Kenzie, and Liz to oust Q.  He would've had a move on his resume that wasn't on Maria's, for one.  Him getting spooked is understandable, but still his fault.

I greatly disliked Venus and her mean girl attitude, so I was happy to see her voted out.  She has only herself to blame.  Maria and Q (and invisible useless Ben) were always going to vote out Venus but Maria didn't know that Charlie was considering joining with Venus, Liz and Kenzie to vote out Q.

Charlie was suspicious of Venus after her coy "I've got something up my sleeve, but I'm not going to tell you what it is until after this vote".  He flat out asked her if she had an advantage and she said no.  Then she denied that she had an idol... "or do I???"

I hate "I've got a secret" and I can imagine that in the microcosm of Survivor, it would be even more irritating because someone else's secrets could get me eliminated.  I think Charlie made the right move in getting rid of Venus.  He can go after Q or Maria next time.

On 5/9/2024 at 7:17 AM, Tachi Rocinante said:

Venus was right - Maria looked completely heartless by making it Liz vs. Q after her mealy-mouthed preamble.  If it was Liz vs. anyone else, nobody would have batted an eye.

I think Maria erred greatly.  She said that it was a difficult choice but then she went about it in the worst way possible.  She said she picked Ben because he was in bad shape.  Is not Liz, the 3 week non-pooper who can't eat anything, also  not in bad shape?  "Oh Liz has been eating rice."  

She should have picked Charlie.  She could easily have justified picking Charlie by saying Charlie didn't eat last time, and it was a selfless act for him to take himself out of the equation.  Then the only person whose feathers get ruffled is Liz.

She handled it poorly and I wonder if this is going to cost her any votes if she makes it to the end.  Liz and Venus seemed upset for sure.

That said, I thought it was hilarious that Liz got denied again.  Her face lit up when Jeffy said "gluten free".  Then she lost because of rock-paper-scissors haha.

On 5/10/2024 at 5:26 AM, Heathrowe said:

A few thoughts on Venus since I liked her.

i give her credit for telling Maria no thanks to the opportunity to grovel for pizza.

She was a very gracious loser, both in the challenge which was close and her final exit.

I guess I am curious if Maria could win. She seems to have peaked early/burned a lot of bridges on the jury already. The way she handled the reward was insufferable.

I did not like Venus but I do agree the way she handled her exit and her final words were very gracious.  However, I don't give her credit for telling Maria that she didn't want to grovel and that Maria should pick who she wanted.  As soon as she said that, Maria said "ok Liz and Q make your case", and Venus' immediate response was a massive eyeroll.  Even though she pretty much took herself out of the running.  So why the eyeroll?

On 5/10/2024 at 1:04 PM, WatcherUp2 said:

I have a question for people with a better memory than I have: Has it ever happened before that the SAME idol went out in two players' pockets? And wasn't this the same idol in consecutive TCs?

It's not necessarily the same idol.  The idol that Venus found could have been either Hunter's idol or Tiffany's idol.  It seems most of them thought Hunter was bluffing about having an idol.  And everyone left doesn't even know that Venus found an idol, but they all gave up.

I wonder if they will re-hide Venus' idol.  Theoretically there could be two idols still on the beach for finding.

[Nashville]

On 5/12/2024 at 9:36 PM, Shermie said:

Not true. How can she be backed up if she hasn’t eaten? She can’t put anything out if she’s taken nothing in. 

My words were chosen more for comic effect than strict accuracy, but I still stand by my point: if in truth Liz had literally starved for ~3 weeks, her body’s metabolic functions would be so FUBARed Medical would’ve had to step in to prevent serious organ damage or failure.

[seacliffsal]

7 hours ago, Nashville said:

My words were chosen more for comic effect than strict accuracy, but I still stand by my point: if in truth Liz had literally starved for ~3 weeks, her body’s metabolic functions would be so FUBARed Medical would’ve had to step in to prevent serious organ damage or failure.

But, the thing is, every episode she shows us that she is full of it...

[JudyObscure]

Well, this talk about Liz got me doing a little research.  Apparently  lots of people have done 30 day water fasts with no harm done other than a little weakness and lack of focus. They suggest having supplements and medical checks for electrolyte balance. I think the cast is checked over every day by the medics so they would be watching Liz for these things.

As for her constipation problem it, too, is normal when not eating and nothing to worry about, although she might have some  diarrhea when she starts eating again.

I also found out the internet is currently more fascinated with the p**p word than a newly trained toddler.

[blackwing]

I read Venus' exit interview on EW, and she seems quite bitter at Charlie.  https://ew.com/survivor-46-venus-vafa-reveals-biggest-villain-didnt-play-idol-8645909.  She acknowledges that she should have played her idol and acknowledges that she shouldn't have been coy with Charlie about something up her sleeve. She blames Charlie for flipping on her and says he is responsible for her ouster.

The interesting thing is that she pretty much says that Maria is a misogynist.  When someone makes a comment that "I'm not saying that Maria hates women", she pretty much is saying "Maria hates women".  Says that Maria didn't want to work with other women.  Will be interesting to see how this perception affects Maria if Maria makes it to the end.

Edited May 16 by blackwing

[Rodney]

5 minutes ago, blackwing said:

I read Venus' exit interview on EW, and she seems quite bitter at Charlie.  https://ew.com/survivor-46-venus-vafa-reveals-biggest-villain-didnt-play-idol-8645909.  She acknowledges that she should have played her idol and acknowledges that she shouldn't have been coy with Charlie about something up her sleeve. She blames Charlie for flipping on her and says he is responsible for her ouster.

The interesting thing is that she pretty much says that Maria is a misogynist.  When someone makes a comment that "I'm not saying the Maria hates women", she pretty much is saying "Maria hates women".  Says that Maria didn't want to work with other women.  Will be interesting to see how this perception affects Maria if Maria makes it to the end.

The first part is kind of contradictory.  She does blame herself (rightfully so) for being too coy with Charlie and not playing her idol . . . but also blames him for her ouster?

The second part, as harsh as this is going to sound, I do agree with, though.  I've never seen Maria willing to work long-term with any woman this season.  Jem and Moriah don't count due to the ease with which she flipped on them to vote out the former.  She seems to like surrounding herself with men.  She's like Elie and Karla from 43, in a way -- claiming to want to work with women, and then flipping on them on a dime and voting them out.

[Lantern7]

Here is "No Idea" from Erik:

[Chicago Redshirt]

15 hours ago, Rodney said:

The first part is kind of contradictory.  She does blame herself (rightfully so) for being too coy with Charlie and not playing her idol . . . but also blames him for her ouster?

The second part, as harsh as this is going to sound, I do agree with, though.  I've never seen Maria willing to work long-term with any woman this season.  Jem and Moriah don't count due to the ease with which she flipped on them to vote out the former.  She seems to like surrounding herself with men.  She's like Elie and Karla from 43, in a way -- claiming to want to work with women, and then flipping on them on a dime and voting them out.

I don't know if it is fair to say Maria is unwilling to work with women when you discount the women she was potentially willing to work with or actually worked with, and when you put the condition "long-term." Few work with anybody longterm, period. And it happens that that the least reliable players post-merge are women (Liz and Venus), and the more predictable and reliable/trustworthy players have been men: Ben, Charlie and even Q despite the "chaos" label has pretty much done what he said he was going to do outside of his quasi-quitting. 

It's not Venus's gender that made her undesirable to work with. It's that she was erratic and off-putting and exhausting. Pretty much no one wanted to work with her from Day One. Now some of that could be that the entire cast consists of mean girls and sexists or whatever, but probably some of it is on Venus for not having the social game to adapt to it. The contrast with Emily who went from being alienating to endearing is telling. Venus just never had another gear than in-your-face annoying.

It's not Liz's gender that made Maria not want to work with her. It's that she is an entitled weirdo.

Maria seemed perfectly willing to work with Kenzie. She saw Tiffany (correctly) as a threat so she couldn't work with her.