S01.E10: The Big Decision

[Puffaroo]

QUESTION: If they offered a sequel reality show to one couple, which one would you watch, The Jamie and Doug Show or The Carry-Ons (Carrion's)?

 

Neither.  After the six-month show, I'm done with these crazy people.

[Katmai]

 

What was so special about her that the producers wanted her for this show? I don't get it.

This armchair psychiatrist guesses her specialness was all of her issues. She spoke about them on The Bachelor all of the time. I didn't watch The Bachelor Pad, from what I've read here, she was a mess on there, too. She may not have had a built-in following, but she had already put it out there that she was a big bag of crazy and probably game (correct call there) to do another reality show.

[aradia22]

So while I came to like Courtney more than I did originally and Monet and Vaughn eventually revealed distasteful aspects of their personalities. in the end the show didn't get me to care about or sympathize with these people. They still felt like reality TV people performing for the cameras and I still don't feel like any of them had a chance to fall in love. If they're still together and feeling positive about their relationships I think it's something that happened outside of the show and not as a result of this "experiment." I would guess that this is FYI's most successful show. If they want me to watch a second season they need to somehow widen the net (difficult I know as most sane people wouldn't sign up for this) and find couples that I believe would at least date each other for a couple of months. Courtney and Jason were the closest and they still strike me as a couple that would have hooked up after meeting a bar and maybe dated for a month or two before calling it quits because of their schedules and their lack of real interest in each other. There was no depth to their relationship. They said nice, supportive, superficial and artificial things to each other because I think they're nice people or at least want to appear that way for the show. They never really challenged each other. They didn't show a depth of understanding of each other as individuals. Beyond the vague nonsense they and the experts were spouting what did they really like about each other or have in common that you wouldn't have in common with any other relatively good looking, polite stranger?

 

I also agree that it was ridiculous how they were trying to make us think they had to make the decision today because obviously it's almost impossible to obtain a divorce. It's just something that never happens. You have to petition the pope for an annulment. It's a whole big thing. ;)

[aradia22]

"I don't know what Vaughn and I are going to do. It's just a lot to think about." Monet said that while unsuccessfully trying to repress a big smile. You know she was fondly thinking of the day when he would be out of her life for good. I wouldn't be surprised if they were able to relax and laugh with each other knowing this horrible experience would be over soon.

 

"I'm probably going to cry if they do stay together and I think I'm going to cry if they don't." Who are you Greg Epstein, a commenter on the mommy blog? Seriously, what has the humanist chaplain contributed?

 

I was kind of expecting Fran to give off the weird possessive, aggressive, and jealous vibes of his wrestling partner. By the way, whatever happened to him?

 

I think Jamie's concept of this cycle of abuse is a little oversimplified but she did bring up a valid point about feeling like she doesn't know Doug very well. They've known each other for a month. For someone who has trust issues to go yes, I will continue to live with this person without the security of the show apparatus around would make her nervous. Her instinct is to not trust people and for this charade she has to make a leap of faith when (in her mind as it's been portrayed) she doesn't have a reason to do so. 

 

I continue to feel like it doesn't say much about Doug that he seems to only be putting up with Jamie because he finds her attractive.

[ridethemaverick]

I could be wrong but Doug strikes me as a "nice guy" type. Hanging around, putting up with nonsense, being sweet and patient as can be, all because a woman is "hot." Nice guy always shows his true colors when dumped or not " rewarded" with sex. We'll never see whether or not it's true for Doug but he gives me the vibe...

[Armchair Critic]

They still felt like reality TV people performing for the cameras

 

The part that seemed fake to me is when they would show Jamie and Cortney in bed they would have perfect makeup (false eyelashes even) and hair. I know from experience after going to bed with somebody or even kissing and close contact I usually end up with my eye makeup looking like a raccoon and my face makeup has rubbed off.

[MsPH]

The part that seemed fake to me is when they would show Jamie and Cortney in bed they would have perfect makeup (false eyelashes even) and hair. I know from experience after going to bed with somebody or even kissing and close contact I usually end up with my eye makeup looking like a raccoon and my face makeup has rubbed off.

 

I think those false lashes are permanently stuck on. Permanently meaning for a month or so. They're like hair extensions. I think they look ridiculous, but so many people have them these days. I also doubt they actually slept in their makeup at least after the honeymoon, they just didn't want to be on camera without it.

 

 

Courtney and Jason were the closest and they still strike me as a couple that would have hooked up after meeting a bar and maybe dated for a month or two before calling it quits because of their schedules and their lack of real interest in each other. There was no depth to their relationship. They said nice, supportive, superficial and artificial things to each other because I think they're nice people or at least want to appear that way for the show. They never really challenged each other. They didn't show a depth of understanding of each other as individuals. Beyond the vague nonsense they and the experts were spouting what did they really like about each other or have in common that you wouldn't have in common with any other relatively good looking, polite stranger?

 

I read some interview with Cortney where she said that they would stay up talking for hours most nights and only slept a couple of hours. That's how they really connected. I think we missed most of their normal conversations, and by normal I mean the ones that don't revolve around their relationship like most dating show conversations seem to do. They talked the most when the cameras weren't filming and I don't think Jason ever really got used to the cameras, so I feel like we didn't get to see the Jason Cortney fell in love with. It's unfortunate, but I think they have a lot in common and they seem really happy, so I hope the best for them.

[62GREAT]

Did anyone notice that Doug is always shown in tee shirts (maybe a shirt once or twice). He's always wearing jeans. Even when they met with the dr's everyone else was dressed nice but him. He doesn't seem to have much ambition, maybe Jamie will provide this as long as he wants to continue to do all he can to please her. This might be what his parents meant. Personally, I think Jamie had it right when she asked him if he was a amuck.

[Crumpet]

 

I didn't watch The Bachelor Pad, from what I've read here, she was a mess on there, too. She may not have had a built-in following, but she had already put it out there that she was a big bag of crazy and probably game (correct call there) to do another reality show.

 

She wasn't "crazy" on Bachelor Pad, from my memory. She did fall for an asshole, but that hardly makes her unique on that show, which is basically all about humiliating its participants (especially, IMO, the women). 

[Jellybeans]

Did anyone notice that Doug is always shown in tee shirts (maybe a shirt once or twice). He's always wearing jeans.

Yes I noticed and I think it is a great look for him. He has a hot body, might as well show it off!

[Bella]

I read some interview with Cortney where she said that they would stay up talking for hours most nights and only slept a couple of hours. That's how they really connected. I think we missed most of their normal conversations, and by normal I mean the ones that don't revolve around their relationship like most dating show conversations seem to do. They talked the most when the cameras weren't filming and I don't think Jason ever really got used to the cameras, so I feel like we didn't get to see the Jason Cortney fell in love with. It's unfortunate, but I think they have a lot in common and they seem really happy, so I hope the best for them.

 

In the Bachelor franchise, TPTB show only the most insipid conversations, and later we learn through interviews that there were often substantive talks about values, interests, etc. Sometimes there are even bona fide arguments about meaningful matters such as life goals behind some of the eliminations. We see almost none of that, however. It's too bad this show followed the same formula. Then again, it could be that the participants, like Jason and Cortney, prefer to keep the important conversations private.

[MsPH]

In the Bachelor franchise, TPTB show only the most insipid conversations, and later we learn through interviews that there were often substantive talks about values, interests, etc. Sometimes there are even bona fide arguments about meaningful matters such as life goals behind some of the eliminations. We see almost none of that, however. It's too bad this show followed the same formula. Then again, it could be that the participants, like Jason and Cortney, prefer to keep the important conversations private.

 

I don't think it was intentional for this show though, just a natural consequence of the couples living together since the start. I mean on TB they don't really get to talk in private until the FS, so everything they do talk about is on camera and the show can pick and choose what they show. On this show they only have a limited amount of filming time and at least during nights they are left alone. I think it's only natural that they're the most comfortable and themselves during all the pillow talk we're bound to miss out on. During filming they're pressured to talk about the issues each episode is centered on, so it ends up being about the relationship itself rather than about them and their interaction. Jason looked very conscious of the cameras during all their "intense" conversations and positively scared of saying anything. I think Jamie and Doug were the most comfortable with the cameras around for obvious reasons and we did get to see a lot of their witty banter in addition to some raw emotions. That's why they were the most entertaining and Jason and Cortney remained a bit distant despite having the most natural love story.

[Armchair Critic]

He has a hot body, might as well show it off!

 

From your posts it sounds like you are a big fan of Jamie & Doug. To each their own, but nothing about Doug says hot to me.

[truthaboutluv]

From your posts it sounds like you are a big fan of Jamie & Doug. To each their own, but nothing about Doug says hot to me.

 

I was starting to think it was just me.

[MsPH]

I think his body is close to perfect. Just enough muscle in the right places, wide shoulders, tall... Jamie is a lucky girl.

[62GREAT]

So what does hot body have to do with dressing better? People with hot bodies don't have to? I just found it odd that as a professional in sales Doug was always dressed super casual. To many others both Vaugh & Jason had hot bodies but they still stepped it up some

[sleekandchic]

Related to Doug's sometimes inappropriate dress, his odd/yuck habits of wiping his sweaty face and mouth with the dishtowel he also uses for drying dishes: I would not be surprised if many people disagree, but I think Jamie's seeming apathy to that crap reveals how little she cares for Doug.

For all her histrionics about Doug's schmuckiness and lying ways, I've found Jamie to be curiously detached and uncaring toward Doug the actual guy. I feel she looks at him as a kind of costar or partner in crime. But a true connection? Human to human, woman to man? No. I don't see the truth of a relationship. Not sexual, or friendship, or spousal or acquaintances. Maybe a costar in RealityLand? But no more than that.

I started out liking Doug, feeling sorry for him, too. Jaime might as well as vomited when first laying eyes on him. I didn't think he deserved that at all. Then his patience, his decency and all-American boy tude toward this troubled girl were praiseworthy to me.

But now I do wonder if his famewhoreery is on an equal par with Jamie? He wanted sex with a hot girl, he wanted a crack at comedianville, he wanted OUT of his parents' house. Okay. Makes him as big an opportunist as Jamie. Certainly not some kind of an exemplary good guy.

Just another couple of weirdass losers to me.

Edited September 13, 2014 by sleekandchic

[wanderingstar]

Makes him as big an opportunist as Jamie. Certainly not some kind of an exemplary good guy.

 

 

Hmm...maybe they are a good match after all!

[Armchair Critic]

Just another couple of weirdass losers to me

 

Thanks for the laugh!

[sleekandchic]

Hmm...maybe they are a good match after all!

Oh yeah. Perfect together. :D

[sleekandchic]

Thanks for the laugh!

You+'re welcome, Armchair! But I feel a little bad being a wiseass. Kind of. Maybe? I'll get back to you later! ;)

[JAndy]

I was starting to think it was just me.

Nope not just you. His face just doesn't do it for me. Nor his hair.

[trimthatfat]

IMO, Doug is no better than Jamie. I said this before, but he got less and less attractive, imo, as time went on. I thought he was kind of cute in an 'aw shucks!' way and I just felt bad for him that Jamie seemed so repulsed by him at first glance. By the end of the show, I felt like his personality leaves a lot to be desired, too. At times, he came across lazy and unmotivated and he seemed awfully comfortable lying to his SO's face.

Edited September 13, 2014 by trimthatfat

[Ohwell]

Doug got less and less attractive to me as well.  In the beginning, I felt really bad for him and I thought he handled Jamie's bad treatment of him like a gentleman.  But there's something about him--I don't know--the word "slovenly" comes to mind, that has turned me off of him.  We've talked about Jamie's issues, but I don't think that Doug should have gone on this show either because he just doesn't seem to have his shit together yet.  I've said before that he needs to clean himself up, but he just seems like the kind of guy who actually does like lounging around in his parents' basement.  Now there's nothing wrong with that as long as he's on his own and his parent don't  mind, but I wouldn't have blamed Jamie for not wanting to stay married to him.  However, that still doesn't excuse the way she's treated him. 

 

Regarding Cigarettegate, I don't think he looked comfortable lying to her, I just think he was trying to hold himself together like one does when one is lying to someone's face.  I know I've done that, and I also know I'm not alone. :)

[ketose]

The way reality shows focus on the stupid show crap and not actual human interaction is why I never liked Big Brother as much as the first season when they just let them interact. MAFS took about 40 days and compressed them into 10 hours. Then they crammed a bunch of filler in.

 

I believe Jamie is thinking she and Doug can be the new Trista and Ryan, but maybe not at a conscious level. Then again, that's kind of like real life. If the people around you like the person you're with, it tends to inflate their stock.

[62GREAT]

For the reasons given in the 2 posts these are the same reasons that I don't see Jamie staying with him. Jaime does seem like she would want to be the breadwinner in the family since Doug"s work history is sketchy.

Sorry, I meant doesn't seem like she would want to be the breadwinner

[Bella]

I think it's okay for a person to decide they don't want to be the breadwinner. I love my job, but I could not support another person with it. My reluctance to be the breadwinner has nothing to do with gender, it has to do with the career I chose and what that career pays. So I can see where Jamie would be apprehensive if she'd never planned on bringing in the primary salary. It would force her to look at her career all over again, on top of the whole, weird-for-this-culture, arranged marriage.

 

Other problems aside, I'm with her on this one.

[qtpye]

You know, most people are saying that Doug is staying with Jamie and putting up with her issues because he thinks she is hot.  It is obvious that Doug is very attracted to her, but I thought he was mostly relieved that she had a good job in a growing and stable field.  I think Doug hates his job working for his brother and sister.  He probably feels that Jamie's job can support them while he pursues his comedy dreams.

 

If Jamie is on board there is nothing wrong with this scenario, but if the genders were reversed some would say he is an oppurtunist.

[trimthatfat]

I hope Doug's goal isn't to rely on Jamie. If Doug is hoping Jamie will support them as he pursues his comedy dreams, I just don't see her being okay with that. Jamie's salary isn't enough to carry Doug and maybe a child or two if they decide to have a family, particularly when they live in a major city.

Edited September 14, 2014 by trimthatfat

[meatball77]

Both of them want to be celebrities.  So perhaps they can use each other to get some gig on some third tier cable channel. 

[Higgins]

I hope Doug's goal isn't to rely on Jamie. If Doug is hoping Jamie will support them as he pursues his comedy dreams, I just don't see her being okay with that. Jamie's salary isn't enough to carry Doug and maybe a child or two if they decide to have a family, particularly when they live in a major city.

I don't know how she even afford to care for herself in NYC on a nursing salary.

[qtpye]

I know, I was impressed she had her own apartment with no roomates.

[fliptopbox]

I'm not sure Jamie's apartment is in NYC. It could be in Brooklyn, or possibly even in Jersey City. There are plenty of places where a nursing salary is plenty to suport one person. But yeah, if Doug is planning to quit his job to pursue comedy while Jamie continues to be the primary paycheck I don't see that lasting very long. I don't think she expects the man to take care of everything financially....but I can definitely see her getting mad if she thinks her man is freeloading off her.

[Higgins]

I'm not sure Jamie's apartment is in NYC. It could be in Brooklyn, or possibly even in Jersey City. There are plenty of places where a nursing salary is plenty to suport one person. But yeah, if Doug is planning to quit his job to pursue comedy while Jamie continues to be the primary paycheck I don't see that lasting very long. I don't think she expects the man to take care of everything financially....but I can definitely see her getting mad if she thinks her man is freeloading off her.

I am a nurse, but NYC is very expensive. I don't know how she would do it without roommates

[62GREAT]

I thought they said Jamie's apartment was in Harlem, or is that where the new place was. I seriously doubt Jamie would support Doug or anyone else, especially someone she just started a relationship with. I've had the impression that Jamie is pretty traditional.

That's a pretty good observation that Doug may not like his job. Most of his long term employment has been the pt sports related jobs. In one of his PA's he said that he doesn't plan out for the future, he takes one day at a time and see how that goes. So unless he's telling Jamie something totally different I'm not seeing how she wouldn't be very leery of his financial stability and future let alone be planning a family with someone who hasn't had long term employment. This is why I'm still doubting this relationship. Yes Doug seems like a nice guy who has been patient and understanding but doesn't seem to have anything else going.

[Jellybeans]

On Jamie's Instagram this morning, she sais she has "baby fever" (she has said it several times) and is asking Doug when they can have a baby.

[62GREAT]

That's crazy, unless this is just to keep people talking about them, it s working.

First of all we all know it wouldn't be Doug's decision, Jamie will always run that marriage. So maybe she won't mind being the primary earner plus she already knows that Doug would be a good househusband.

I'm still very skeptical that this all to keep the spot light and cameras rolling on them.

[crazychicken]

Absolutely crazy, they haven't even known each other for 6 months. If Jamie thinks children will complete her fairytale she is delusional, children add so much stress to a relationship. Not to mention that Doug does not seem to have a great job history, why add a bigger financial burden to a new relationship if your biggest fear is poverty. I will not even go into Jamie's miraculous recovery from her issues after having one session with Dr C.

Edited September 15, 2014 by crazychicken

[ramble]

I hope the baby fever talk is just to keep the buzz going. Doug seems completely unsettled to me & unsure what he wants to be when he grows up, except doing stand up sounds fun, at least for now. I would not want to start a family with him at this point. (Okay honestly I would never want to because I find him unappealing on every level.) That's not even addressing Jamie's trust & abuse issues. I think Jamie might've been better chasing sleazy Chris B. from Bachelor Pad.

[62GREAT]

To have a child with someone not financially stable and you've only known for 6 months would put Jamie in the same category as her sister. And to add a child simply to keep yourself out there in the public eye would just stress how deep and wide her issues are and how far she'll go for fame.

I'm still not buying that Jamie is really into Doug. Like I said previously, all the constant talk about how wonderful he is and all the constant pictures, fall in line with " thinks the lady protests " too much.

[whack-a-mole]

I'm still not buying that Jamie is really into Doug. Like I said previously, all the constant talk about how wonderful he is and all the constant pictures, fall in line with " thinks the lady protests " too much.

Same. I think she's into him for as long as she can keep cameras focused on her. The baby talk smacks of wanting more followup or some kind of reality show spinoff. Once it's clear that's not happening, I give it less than six months. His lack of direction in life and favorite goofy uncle looks aren't going to keep her around once the cameras are gone.

[MsPH]

I'm starting to feel a bit uncomfortable and weirded out by all these assumptions about Doug's job and financial situation. It seems like even in recession losing one's job is always one's own fault and automatically makes them a lazy slob, who's happy living in their parents' basement. Why on earth would anyone think Doug's planning to quit his job and leech off Jamie? He's said himself that he wants to be the best he can for her, and I highly doubt that involves quitting one's budding career. He also said he's always had a job or several, even while living with his parents, so it's not like he's been unemployed. Even now he seems to have a weekend job as a lifeguard in addition to his day job. I also didn't get the impression that he's still in debt, he just lost 14k when he had to sell his house and he's probably saved that much by now thanks to living back home. I'm sure Jamie's a lot more aware of his finances now than when this show was filmed and it doesn't seem like she's too worried, if she's thinking of babies. I take that as a sign that he's doing fine, but then again I don't think they're faking anything. She's gotten way too close to his family to just be using him for fame. 

[Ohwell]

Doug and Jamie remind me of Bill and Giuliana Rancic.  I still smell a reality show.

[62GREAT]

she's into him for as long as she can keep cameras focused on her. The baby talk smacks of wanting more followup or some kind of reality show spinoff. Once it's clear that's not happening, I give it less than six months. His lack of direction in life and favorite goofy uncle looks aren't going to keep her around once the cameras are gone.

EXACTLY.

I'm not saying Doug's a total bum. His professional profile shows that he has never had a FT job for more than 18 months. Yes he has had several long running PT jobs, but in my opinion I don't see Jamie really being ok with this. I'm not blaming him for the economy, just pointed out that he has not been financially stable. With Jamie's fear of falling back into property I don't see her all of a sudden being ok with and starting a family under these circumstances. Jamie is a smart girl and obviously a very smart woman, look what she's accomplished given the lack of support she's had. Plus as she has said she has worked really hard, given that I don't see she having a child until they are in a good place financially.

[ethalfrida]

Lots of people are happy living with their parents, basement or otherwise. A good of amount of the Dr. Phil shows are about people who are with that arrangement.

[Jellybeans]

I got married and had my babies as soon as I could. My grandmother told me "if you wait until you can afford them, you'll be a hundred and one". LOL. She was right.

Edited September 15, 2014 by Jellybeans

[62GREAT]

But we're talking about Jamie. She frowned on Doug living with his parents. I'm not saying they have to be well off but stable.

Unless your rich who can ever afford children, LOL. Mine are working adults and I still can't afford them!

[Jellybeans]

Well, my son is 32 and lives with his Dad. He is working and single. I see no problem with the arrangement. Times have changed with the economy. I am sure when he gets a g/f he'll move out.

Sure Jamie frowned on it at first but people are fluid beings.

I can't afford my son either. LOL.

[absolutelyido]

I'm not saying Doug's a total bum. His professional profile shows that he has never had a FT job for more than 18 months. Yes he has had several long running PT jobs, but in my opinion I don't see Jamie really being ok with this. I'm not blaming him for the economy, just pointed out that he has not been financially stable. With Jamie's fear of falling back into property I don't see her all of a sudden being ok with and starting a family under these circumstances. Jamie is a smart girl and obviously a very smart woman, look what she's accomplished given the lack of support she's had. Plus as she has said she has worked really hard, given that I don't see she having a child until they are in a good place financially.

 

It's interesting to me that other than the one episode where all the couples had finance conversations, Doug's job history and finances never came up again as an issue between them. Considering how many times they re-hashed Jamie not going to Doug's baseball game, and the cigarette lie, it sure seems like the producers were looking for any kind of drama between the couples that they could show. So if Jamie continued to be troubled by Doug's career or finances, it seems to me we would have seen it. So I think, one way or another, Jamie got comfortable with Doug's situation.

 

No doubt the economy played some role in Doug's career path, but I also think it likely that he's never really gotten serious about his career. I'm not really sure what his comedy aspirations may be, but I read that he was invited to try out for several professional baseball teams, although obviously he wasn't signed. I think maybe he spent some years hoping he could make a living at something other than an 8 to 5 job. And, unlike Jamie who was driven to escape the poverty she grew up in, Doug grew up securely middle-class and always had his parents to fall back on, so maybe wasn't so driven to find a financially stable career.

 

Honestly though, I think his marriage to Jamie has completely changed his attitude. Doug said that he had potential to make a lot of money in his career, and the fact that Jamie made more than he did really motivated him to earn more. I also found it interesting when Doug met his parents in the Decision episode that his father said that Doug "needed Jamie's sternness to keep him straight". So, it seems like even his parents recognize that Jamie perhaps laying down the law about her requirements for a husband have made Doug mature a bit and get serious about his future, including his career. Monet said a few times that she thought Vaughn had great potential as a husband, but wasn't ready to take on a wife and family, and I feel like that describes Doug before the experiment. Whether you call it love, or infatuation, or just sexual attraction I think Jamie's got a tight hold on Doug and he's not going to let anything cause him to lose her; and if that means getting serious about his career he's going to do it.  

Edited September 16, 2014 by absolutelyido

[heebiejeebie]

Doug and Jamie remind me of Bill and Giuliana Rancic.  I still smell a reality show.

 

 

Well certainly the stench of need wafts off these two like the odor of rogaine probably hovers over Doug on a hot summer's day.

 

Even though this is Bachelor Lite in so many ways I do think Jamie was more likely cast because when they ran their CIA profile, she didn't so much match Doug.  At all.  But she did fit the Trista Reyn and all those who followed personality -- someone willing to commit to "famous" we-met-on-the-teevee "love" that validates their awesome sauce specialness that a blind date at Applebies just never fulfills.