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S04.E02: Part 2

Cranberry

By Cranberry
in True Detective

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Cheezwiz

Cheezwiz

  On 1/23/2024 at 3:53 AM, Blakeston said:

I can't shake the feeling that this season is all too similar to Mare of Easttown. We've got a brittle middle-aged woman police offiicer who's mourning her dead son, can't get along with her lesbian daughter figure, and is taking shit about a case involving a missing/dead young woman that she couldn't crack, but obviously will. The dynamics with her and the community feel similar, too.

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That was my thought as well. Different locale, but some similar plot points.

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Lassus

Lassus

(edited)
  On 1/22/2024 at 7:36 PM, Penman61 said:

Seems like it should/will be a bigger deal that Pete found that the Tsalal research station is being funded by a company named…Tuttle.

Season 1’s cult was headed by a man/company named…Tuttle.

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All this made me think of was the movie Brazil.  

(I watched season 1 when it came out, but didn't remember that name.)

  On 1/22/2024 at 5:36 PM, iMonrey said:

After reading through these posts it seems like the show has a little too much going on between the main cases and all the interpersonal connections. They would do better to slim this down and focus more on the cases.

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I sort of agree, but also sort of don't.  (Strong take, I know)  Towns like this are... like this.  Lots of internal crap.  

But I agree it seems like a lot.  Maybe it's intentionally crowded and intimately oppressive.  (Oppressively intimate?)

Edited by Lassus
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Lassus

Lassus

  On 1/23/2024 at 2:14 AM, txhorns79 said:

Yeah, the months of total darkness adds to the disorientation of everything.  It's not clear if it is 2:00 pm or midnight.

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I haven't done the research, but this has to be a bit of dramatic license.   (Which I don't really mind at all, just kind of something I was thinking about.)  The sun isn't staying 180 degrees away from that spot on the planet for 6 months on a dime, it's still moving beneath the horizon line, closer and farther away.  There's no way it's just pitch from the start with no variation.  

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txhorns79

txhorns79

  On 1/23/2024 at 1:05 PM, Lassus said:

I haven't done the research, but this has to be a bit of dramatic license.   (Which I don't really mind at all, just kind of something I was thinking about.) 

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From what I've read, Utqiagvik (Barrow), Alaska, one of the most northern towns in the state, has about a two month period during the winter where they do not typically see sunlight.   

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Lassus

Lassus

(edited)
  On 1/23/2024 at 2:37 PM, txhorns79 said:

From what I've read, Utqiagvik (Barrow), Alaska, one of the most northern towns in the state, has about a two month period during the winter where they do not typically see sunlight.

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Right!  And I'm not disputing this at all.  But if the sun where you live sets at 7 PM,  it's not instantly black because you aren't seeing any sunlight - there are varying levels of dark. 

My only point is that I think portraying the entire 24-hour periods in Ennis that follow the sunset in the first episode as pitch black is a little bit of a (totally justified and effective for dramatic purposes) fib.

Edited by Lassus
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Affogato

Affogato

(edited)
  On 1/23/2024 at 3:53 AM, Blakeston said:

I think that was part of it. But I also got the impression that this was a long-standing battle between Liz and Leah, with Liz being uncomfortable with Leah exploring her indigenous background. Liz seemed to have contempt for those Native women, and they had contempt for her.

Speaking of Liz's difficult relationship with Leah - I can't shake the feeling that this season is all too similar to Mare of Easttown. We've got a brittle middle-aged woman police offiicer who's mourning her dead son, can't get along with her lesbian daughter figure, and is taking shit about a case involving a missing/dead young woman that she couldn't crack, but obviously will. The dynamics with her and the community feel similar, too.

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She said it, that she wants Leah to have a better life than the women in the town. In Fairbanks Leah likely didn't have much contact with the native women (I'm guessing) and that Liz put them off trying to keep them away from Leah when they moved to the current town, I forget the name. Liz is not wrong to want Leah to have something better, but she has handled it badly. She is driving Leah away and into the other community.

 

  Quote

https://www.betterhelp.com/advice/ptsd/what-you-should-know-about-each-type-of-ptsd/

4.  Complex PTSD 

Complex PTSD, or C-PTSD, is typically caused by ongoing trauma, such as living in a violent community or war zone or experiencing recurrent abuse. The National Library of Medicine reports that 3.8% of US adults have C-PTSD. Symptoms of PTSD examined by mental health professionals include difficulty managing emotions, low levels of self-esteem, being extremely hypervigilant and easily startled, intrusive thoughts, persistent feelings of guilt, shame, and a generally negative outlook on the self, others, and the world.

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I remember a long time ago finding a group of ptsd survivors who analyzed ptsd in popular culture. Lord Peter Whimsey, Dorothy Sayer's partner had ptsd from WW!, was considered the most realistic depiction. No, I can't find them now, sorry. But it seems to be an overwhelmingly popular way to construct characters for mystery/detective dramas. Not just middle aged (although season 4 probably counts), Veronica Mars is also an example. Trauma in general is used a lot as a motivator and as a reason for behavior. A lot.

Edited by Affogato
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Affogato

Affogato

(edited)
  On 1/22/2024 at 8:29 PM, tennisgurl said:

I am really going to need to make some kind of murder board to keep up with all of the characters, their relationships, and all the pieces of this puzzle.

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There ws a murder board in the trailer, wasn't there? Probably a start...

  On 1/23/2024 at 3:06 PM, kay1864 said:

Found this:

It’s actually surprisingly colourful, and not as dark as one tends to imagine. It’s more like a never ending sunrise, or sunset.

True, there is no sunlight. But you still get the twilight spectrum, and it can have amazing colours. And I mean, for hours and hours on end.

IMG_9398.jpeg

IMG_9399.jpeg

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The christmas lights were a welcome sight in the town, this episode. Most of the colors and lights in the pictures above seem to be from lights, not specifically the sky.

Edited by Affogato
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RedDelicious

RedDelicious

  On 1/23/2024 at 1:05 PM, Lassus said:

I haven't done the research, but this has to be a bit of dramatic license.   (Which I don't really mind at all, just kind of something I was thinking about.)  The sun isn't staying 180 degrees away from that spot on the planet for 6 months on a dime, it's still moving beneath the horizon line, closer and farther away.  There's no way it's just pitch from the start with no variation.  

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My dad was USARAK (then USARAL) and he confirmed this - he said when they were up in Fairbanks they'd get to a point where they'd have a small window of daylight and as they went further north it was as you said, varying degrees of darkness. I know its weird for me as a viewer and it's the way of life up there. I think I'd want to sleep all the time.

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Haleth

Haleth

(edited)

It would be very difficult to film during a short window (even several hours) of twilight and expect continuity.  Much easier in constant darkness.  As viewers we just have to accept it.

I'm wondering if Clark became infected with these mystery microbes (either intentionally or accidentally) and they started eating his brain.

Edited by Haleth
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AnnMarie17

AnnMarie17

This is my first go at True Detective and....it's a lot.  Like so many others here, I'm interested in the case, but the seemingly endless list of characters, relationships, and sub-plots, with very little actual context and just a bunch of guessing on my part, is turning me off, unfortunately.

Also, it took four full days for my twenty pound turkey to thaw in my refrigerator, which is set at 38 degrees. In what world can frozen human bodies completely thaw in 48 hours?  Not a big deal, I confess, but it bugged me....🙃

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peeayebee

peeayebee

  On 1/24/2024 at 3:53 PM, grawlix said:

He says "She's awake". 

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Thanks. I guess I was thinking of 'Poltergeist.' :D

 

  On 1/24/2024 at 4:50 PM, AnnMarie17 said:

Also, it took four full days for my twenty pound turkey to thaw in my refrigerator, which is set at 38 degrees. In what world can frozen human bodies completely thaw in 48 hours? 

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Don't make me look at my frozen turkey in horror.

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SnarkAttack

SnarkAttack

  On 1/24/2024 at 4:50 PM, AnnMarie17 said:

This is my first go at True Detective and....it's a lot.  Like so many others here, I'm interested in the case, but the seemingly endless list of characters, relationships, and sub-plots, with very little actual context and just a bunch of guessing on my part, is turning me off, unfortunately.

Also, it took four full days for my twenty pound turkey to thaw in my refrigerator, which is set at 38 degrees. In what world can frozen human bodies completely thaw in 48 hours?  Not a big deal, I confess, but it bugged me....🙃

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My husband refuses to watch shows where so many people are introduced off the bat, he says he doesn't want to have to work so much to watch a show, lol.  

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TexasGal

TexasGal

I was watching distracted and will re-watch later, but what was the deal with the professor (teacher?) that Danvers went to visit, and I thought it was implied they'd also hooked up at some point?  I thought the flashback they showed when Leah said Danvers used to dance with her dad was him?  I know it will all be explained at some point but yeah, too many new people to keep track of.  

  On 1/22/2024 at 5:59 AM, Cheezwiz said:

I'm finally starting to understand some of the relationships. Wow, I totally had Liz's family all wrong based on the first episode. I genuinely thought the John Hawkes character was her ex-husband, and that the young rookie cop was their adult son together. She's not related to either of them, and young rookie cop is just her mentee/protege.

 

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100% same, LOL!

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peeayebee

peeayebee

  On 1/25/2024 at 6:46 PM, TexasGal said:

I was watching distracted and will re-watch later, but what was the deal with the professor (teacher?) that Danvers went to visit, and I thought it was implied they'd also hooked up at some point?  I thought the flashback they showed when Leah said Danvers used to dance with her dad was him?  I know it will all be explained at some point but yeah, too many new people to keep track of.  

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I may have to rewatch that because I didn't connect the teacher with the guy Danvers was dancing with. Were both scenes in Part 2?

Cotypubby

Cotypubby

(edited)
  On 1/24/2024 at 4:50 PM, AnnMarie17 said:

Also, it took four full days for my twenty pound turkey to thaw in my refrigerator, which is set at 38 degrees. In what world can frozen human bodies completely thaw in 48 hours?  Not a big deal, I confess, but it bugged me....🙃

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I thought she meant it should take 48 hours to defrost in 38° C (100° F) and expected them to set up giant heat lamps and didn’t understand why an ice hockey rink would be the place to go. 😂

But then Googling I found this:

“It turns out you can’t just warm up a frozen body and proceed with the autopsy.  It has to be defrosted slowly in a refrigeration unit at a steady thirty-eight degrees which can take up to  week.  Go any faster and the outside of the body will start to decompose while the inner organs are still frozen. Important evidence can be lost.”

Edited by Cotypubby
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pezgirl7

pezgirl7

(edited)

I haven’t had any issues with figuring out the relationships on this show. What I am having trouble with is the main mystery. Normally at this point I would have some theories, but I’m pretty much at a loss. There just seems to be so many random threads that I can’t figure out how they’re connected. Seems like it would be a bit of a let down if the frozen men were simply killed by an organism that infected their brain and made them go mad. Also, just because Annie was dating one of the scientists doesn’t mean the cases are connected. Although they probably are. 

Edited by pezgirl7
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MaggieG

MaggieG

  On 1/22/2024 at 4:21 PM, Blakeston said:

I had the impression that Connelly's ex-wife was the woman who ran the ice rink. That woman despised Danvers, and I assumed it was because she knew that Danvers had been screwing her husband.

I also assumed that Jake was Leah's father, and that Danvers married Jake (who already had Leah from a previous relationship), and they had a kid together, and then Jake and the kid died.

Question about Navarro - from her name I assume she's Latina, but is she also indigenous? I got the impression that she was part of the indigenous community, but I could be wrong.

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See, I had the impression that ice rink lady was/is married to the teacher that Danvers visited. The teacher implied that he and Danvers hooked up and ice rink lady was very frosty towards her. 

Why can't Danvers as the chief just order Hank to bring her the Annie file? Why is he allowed to keep this away from her?

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grawlix

grawlix

This is how I interpret Danver's known hook-ups

1.  Jake (deceased).  Step daughter Leah's father.  Son Holden (deceased) father. 

2.  Ted Connelly, Police Chief.  Danver's boss

3.  Geography Teacher.  Name? 

4.  Kate McKittrick's (ice rink lady) ex-husband.  I thought Connelly was the ex-husband but I seem to recall a mention that the ex was a mine executive.

 

My current thoughts are that Jake was the drunk driver and the cause of Holden's death.  Also, Danver replaced the elder Prior as head of the Ennis police force.

 

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pezgirl7

pezgirl7

  On 1/26/2024 at 8:01 AM, pezgirl7 said:

Also, just because Annie was dating one of the scientists doesn’t mean the cases are connected. Although they probably are. 

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Quoting myself here because I just remembered that they confirmed the tongue was Annie’s, so the cases probably are connected. Although if the boyfriend was keeping it in a freezer, then brought it out when he went mad, it still doesn’t mean that her murder and the scientists deaths are connected. I could see the murderer cutting out her tongue as a warning, or a punishment for speaking out against the mines (or something she learned about the research facility?), and then leaving it behind at the crime scene. But then the boyfriend finds her body first and keeps the tongue for some weird ritual.

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iMonrey

iMonrey

  On 1/26/2024 at 6:22 PM, MaggieG said:

Why can't Danvers as the chief just order Hank to bring her the Annie file? Why is he allowed to keep this away from her?

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I didn't get this either. I guess maybe she knows he'd say he didn't have it and she'd have to get a search warrant or something, so it was just faster to ask Peter to steal it for her.

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snarts

snarts

  On 1/27/2024 at 5:00 PM, iMonrey said:

I didn't get this either. I guess maybe she knows he'd say he didn't have it and she'd have to get a search warrant or something, so it was just faster to ask Peter to steal it for her.

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She did ask him directly for the file and he denied having it, which is why she asked Pete to get it for her.

I suffered through S1 (not my cup of tea) and decidedly skipped S2/3. Here for Jodie Foster and the interesting locale. Enjoying it thus far, and excited that it's a mini-series with an already shot ending. I don't mind supernatural, outerworldy, open to interpretation dramas when they're well written. I just don't have the patience for the making up shit to keep the seasons coming writing they did/are doing for Lost, Yelllowjackets, etc. 

So happy to see Jodie back acting and this role seems like it was written just for her. 

Fave character is the Navarro's hookup, the bartender, and his spongbob toothbrush and beautiful alaskan malamutes. Please don't let anything bad happen to him or the doggies. 

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Gobi

Gobi

  On 1/29/2024 at 6:28 PM, Megras said:

As a Brit I don't understand the role the FBI would play here. I was under the impression that the FBI only got involved when a state line had been crossed or if the crime was on federal property. Why would they come in and take over what seems to be a local murder case? Just because the victims were foreign?

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The FBI often advises on particularly notable cases, especially if the local PD isn’t equipped to handle it.

pezgirl7

pezgirl7

  On 1/29/2024 at 6:28 PM, Megras said:

As a Brit I don't understand the role the FBI would play here. I was under the impression that the FBI only got involved when a state line had been crossed or if the crime was on federal property. Why would they come in and take over what seems to be a local murder case? Just because the victims were foreign?

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From what I've read, local law enforcement can simply ask the FBI for help if they need the FBI's resources. The FBI could refuse. If the research facility was on Federal land, or tribal land, then that would fall under federal jurisdiction. But I think if that were the case here, then the police would be obligated to alert the FBI. So far, I don't think we've seen any federal laws being broken, so the FBI would only be able to lend assistance, not take over entirely.

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aghst

aghst

Some shows and movies have depicted a personality clash between local and FBI agents.  Sure there's probably rivalry and turf marking going on.

But I think often, local law enforcement lack resources, like for instance the best forensics.

It seems like if the case becomes a big enough deal, getting a lot of media scrutiny, the FBI will get involved, whatever the jurisdictional issues are.

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conquistador

conquistador

I’m on board for Jodie Foster and she is making it worthwhile. I have a couple of nitpicks though:

 

* The scene with the geography teacher was just really stupid. They went all out with the ”Speak English, nerd!” cliché.

* I cannot believe that the corpses in the ice rink were not closed off, not even with screens or curtains. They are just sitting there on full display.

* Sex is weird in this show. All the characters just crash their partners and are like ”Uh! Knock knock! It’s sex times!”

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bilgistic

bilgistic

  On 2/7/2024 at 6:48 AM, conquistador said:

I’m on board for Jodie Foster and she is making it worthwhile. I have a couple of nitpicks though:

* The scene with the geography teacher was just really stupid. They went all out with the ”Speak English, nerd!” cliché.

* I cannot believe that the corpses in the ice rink were not closed off, not even with screens or curtains. They are just sitting there on full display.

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I don't remember what the teacher said, but I remember thinking that it wasn't very complex.

I also remember wondering why the windows at the rink weren't at least covered.

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conquistador

conquistador

  On 2/7/2024 at 1:33 PM, bilgistic said:

I don't remember what the teacher said, but I remember thinking that it wasn't very complex.

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I don’t recall the exact phrasing, but it was along the lines of ”They are working on a solution to stop cellular breakdown”. And no, that’s not very complex. There are three things wrong with it for me:

 

1. Foster’s character otherwise seems pretty intelligent and at least has a basic scientific understanding, so it feels out of character for me.

2. If we assume that Foster is just asking on behalf of the audience, then I don’t see the point of that either. If you are not understanding that the scientists are working on important research, then I don’t think you are going to follow the rest of the plot anyway.

3. The research itself is also silly, it’s basically a silver bullet for any advanced disease. Which ties into the supernatural aspects I guess, but I prefer things to be a bit more grounded.

 

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peeayebee

peeayebee

  On 2/7/2024 at 6:48 AM, conquistador said:

I’m on board for Jodie Foster and she is making it worthwhile. I have a couple of nitpicks though:

* The scene with the geography teacher was just really stupid. They went all out with the ”Speak English, nerd!” cliché.

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That's a pet peeve of mine. In police shows, the coroner will tell the detective what they found, and they'll always define the term, like Petechial hemorrhaging. I'm positive every detective knows what that means. I understand why shows/movies do that, but it often sounds clunky to me.

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