Season 4 Discussion Thread

[YorkshireLass]

That was a lovely end to the season.  As others have said, lots of humour which was nice after the seriousness of the last episode.  The love between the characters was palpable and the absolute look of enchantment they all had when looking at James Jr warmed my heart. 

I'm very surprised Helen agreed to give up Oscar.  I wouldn't have unless he truly was the other people's cat.  I was hoping to see him become a Skeldale regular like Jess & Dash.  I had to giggle when I saw him playing with the wool/thread that Helen was working with.  Such a typical cat.  I wonder if Humbug went at it right away or if they had to coax him to act his part.  

The look of absolute foreboding on everyone's face when they heard James was going to be flying bombers sent me researching bomber survival rates.  Those are very sobering statistics and I can see why everyone looked so very worried.  About 45% were killed and 15% were either wounded or became prisoners of war.  

One thing I've meant to mention after Christmas episodes before is the weird appearance of the outdoor shots.  It's like there's some kind of a filter put on the camera that changes the colour of the sky, landscape & buildings.  I find it very distracting - wish they wouldn't do it.

Hard to believe it will be 10 1/2 months before we're back here again.  You wait and wait for the show to come back and then it's all over in the blink of an eye.  At least it's something to look forward to after Christmas & New Year.

[Dowel Jones]

That picture of the Merlin - somebody is about to get got!  I'd like George to be a Merlin, simply for aeronautic reasons.  The P-51 Mustang of WWII fame was really an underperforming plane until Rolls Royce put their 12 cylinder Merlin engine in it.  Then it became a fighter.

[Dowel Jones]

4 minutes ago, YorkshireLass said:

Those are very sobering statistics and I can see why everyone looked so very worried.

Our posts crossed in the internet.  I will add that the rate of PTSD was quite high also, due to these statistics.  I've read that airmen who finally broke down and refused to fly were labeled as LMF, or 'lack of moral fiber', and given ground jobs.  Sounds like bullshit to me, but that's the way they did it.  There were also what they called "Whispers in the Wind", or verbal scuttlebutt that the fighter command authorized their people to shoot down RAF bombers that appeared to be deserting and heading to neutral countries (Sweden, Switzerland).  Desertion rates were high for both the RAF and the USAAF.

[The Wild Sow]

3 minutes ago, YorkshireLass said:

The look of absolute foreboding on everyone's face when they heard James was going to be flying bombers sent me researching bomber survival rates.  Those are very sobering statistics and I can see why everyone looked so very worried.  About 45% were killed and 15% were either wounded or became prisoners of war.  

Uncle Jimmy (Dad's brother) was the navigator on a bomber.  He trained for pilot but washed out - and, according to his letters, if you're not the very best as a pilot, you should wash out because not-so-good pilots aren't going to survive or bring their crews home.  Sadly, Jimmy was KIA in the Italian theatre, after only 11 days overseas.  I'm not sure if any of his crew survived (the plane crashed returning to base.)

[libgirl2]

1 hour ago, Sarah 103 said:

I don't find the commanding officer attractive, but I could absolutely picture him in an old black and white WWII movie from the 1940s. 

 

Yes, he was really spot on. I found him fairly attractive. 

[Daff]

2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

hope the next season skips to the end of the war.

If it’s any consolation, the original series did not spend many episodes with the main characters away from the business. Tristan was seen doing office work in England and traveled back to Skeldale House quite a bit.

On 2/18/2024 at 1:58 PM, baileythedog said:

Mr. Carson and Mrs. Hughes on "Downton Abbey" were a house on fire, comparatively. 

Wading in the ocean!!!😂

[Daff]

16 hours ago, Jodithgrace said:

like when a British person says “sweater,” or “cookie,” and I think, oh no, America has struck again! 

Jumper drove me crazy and took me many years to accept, especially when men were talking about them. We could not wear pants to school until they relaxed the dress codes when I was in high school. To keep warm, my school clothes consisted of wool jumpers (a sleeveless, collarless dress), turtlenecks, sweaters, skirts and knee socks (buy them big and you can pull them up to cover the knees).

[Souris]

This episode didn't sit right for me in multiple ways. James going AWOL didn't seem in character. And I was unhappy he gave away Oscar. I sure hope he talked to Helen first!! It just bothered me a lot. It was like, "Oh, she has a baby now, she doesn't need the cat for comfort anymore." Poor Oscar, going from an easy life in a veterinary surgery to who knows what kind of life outdoors on a farm. He'll probably end up like he was found. Oscar deserved better!

[alias1]

What didn't sit right with me is that Helen seemed perfectly fine with letting Oscar go.  Even if the little girl really was happy to finally have another cat.  I found the whole thing contrived.  It actually would have made more sense if the cat had really belonged to the little girl.  I wonder why they didn't just go with that.  

[iMonrey]

6 hours ago, YorkshireLass said:

One thing I've meant to mention after Christmas episodes before is the weird appearance of the outdoor shots.  It's like there's some kind of a filter put on the camera that changes the colour of the sky, landscape & buildings.  I find it very distracting - wish they wouldn't do it.

I enjoyed the winter variation on the opening title sequence. I didn't even notice it before. Have they always used that version for the Christmas episodes?

1 hour ago, alias1 said:

What didn't sit right with me is that Helen seemed perfectly fine with letting Oscar go. 

Oh I'm certain Helen would have been just fine with making a little girl happy. She has a new baby to take care of, that's going to take up most of her time now, so the cat will get a lot more attention from its new owner.

[Sarah 103]

22 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

I enjoyed the winter variation on the opening title sequence. I didn't even notice it before. Have they always used that version for the Christmas episodes?

I think so. I like the winter version. I'm surprised PBS hasn't done a version of it on a mug. If you left out the Christmas part at the end and kept the generic winter outdoor scenes the mug could easily be used all winter. 

[Calvada]

I found it amusing at the end that the cat was wrapped up in what appeared to be a heavier, warmer blanket than what was used for the baby.  

[magdalene]

2 hours ago, alias1 said:

What didn't sit right with me is that Helen seemed perfectly fine with letting Oscar go.  Even if the little girl really was happy to finally have another cat.  I found the whole thing contrived.  It actually would have made more sense if the cat had really belonged to the little girl.  I wonder why they didn't just go with that.  

That rubbed me the wrong way too. If you feel the need to give your pet away maybe at least try to make sure these strangers are not animal abusers?

Well, it's better  than what happens to unwanted cats in the US a lot, getting thrown into a dumpster alive like trash.

But this scene did make James and Helen come across as quite fickle - "oh hey, we have a new baby now, don't need the cat anymore."

[ML89]

Anyone else expecting Sister Monica Joan as the midwife?

 

3 hours ago, Souris said:

This episode didn't sit right for me in multiple ways. James going AWOL didn't seem in character. And I was unhappy he gave away Oscar. I sure hope he talked to Helen first!! It just bothered me a lot. It was like, "Oh, she has a baby now, she doesn't need the cat for comfort anymore." Poor Oscar, going from an easy life in a veterinary surgery to who knows what kind of life outdoors on a farm. He'll probably end up like he was found. Oscar deserved better!

Yes, absolutely! James was on my last nerve. I do have to say that was a good way to explain Carmody, but that bit with them and the dog felt off too. 

[crankcase]

To get some sense of what flying a bombing mission over Germany in WWII was like, watch the fictional “Masters of the Air” series on Apple TV. The first episode is free to all (and all you’ll need) without any subscription or any special equipment—just do a title search on your smart TV.

To get some sense of what the Yorkshire Dales are really like a good deal of the time, watch the version of “Wuthering Heights” directed by Andrea Arnold on the Kanopy app.

Siegfried’s love for Audrey is detectable from outer space, but not yet from Audrey’s class-delimited inner one.  

[Badger]

9 hours ago, libgirl2 said:

Yes, he was really spot on. I found him fairly attractive. 

Sam Retford is only 24, but he's been in quite a few shows. 

[Ancaster]

5 hours ago, alias1 said:

What didn't sit right with me is that Helen seemed perfectly fine with letting Oscar go.  Even if the little girl really was happy to finally have another cat.  I found the whole thing contrived.  It actually would have made more sense if the cat had really belonged to the little girl.  I wonder why they didn't just go with that.  

I thought it was weird too - they're a "family" of animal lovers, and even with a new baby, it's not as though Oscar (presumably a pretty normal independent cat) would be neglected.

I'm pretty sure cats/kittens were very easy to acquire/save from drowning (sorry, but that's what happened).  If James had wanted to be seen as a good guy, he could just have nominated Siegfried and Carmody to keep their ears open about unwanted cats via the practice.

I didn't mind the episode, but I found at least three things very out of character for James and so it wasn't my favourite by far.

* Giving away the cat

* Not being particularly interested at first in helping the kestrel/merlin

* Going AWOL

 

Edited February 20 by Ancaster

[Haleth]

On 2/18/2024 at 10:25 PM, Jodithgrace said:

I was so glad the midwife showed up so we didn’t have the cliche of Siegfried or, heaven forbid, Carmody delivering the baby.

Yes, but we did get a very funny scene with them discussing the possibility.  No different than a sow? Carmody avoiding the "business end?"  

11 hours ago, Souris said:

James going AWOL didn't seem in character. And I was unhappy he gave away Oscar.

I agree with both points.  Oscar had been with Helen for many months.  Baby or no baby, giving away a pet should be an emotional experience.

[JudyObscure]

5 hours ago, Ancaster said:

I didn't mind the episode, but I found at least three things very out of character for James and so it wasn't my favourite by far.

* Giving away the cat

* Not being particularly interested at first in helping the kestrel/merlin

* Going AWOL

Agree on all points.  I enjoyed all the Siegfried, Mrs. Hall, Carmody, and Christmas at the pup scenes, but the whole birth story seemed off to me. 

I can't think dutiful straight-arrow James would have ever considered going AWOL  and all his talk about being there to support her was very contemporary. 

Helen, whose acting was so good last week with her fear over not feeling the baby move, didn't do "brand new mother" half as well as most of the Call the Midwife actresses. While James looked properly awed over his new baby she seemed almost bored standing there stroking his fontanel area over and over. 

Just not their best episode.

[Doublemint]

A very sweet episode.  They've got The Drovers all wrong - sorry.  Women didn't frequent a pub back in the day.  Mrs. Pumphrey in a pub?  Also, what happened to the regulars - those crusty alcoholics with their poor appearance and raw earthiness.  No Father Christmas, and Mothers wouldn't let their kids go there either. 

How did Mrs. Hall prepare all of that food for the community?  There was rationing.  People ate their Christmas dinner, such as it was at home not in a pub.

They should have left the Christmas party at Skeldale House, as in the past.  It's still the Mrs. Hall show for me, which is fine.  Its nice they don't get any farm calls over Christmas holidays, but we did see the 2 house dogs and the cat.  Oh yes, the RAF bird too.

It's a very nice show, and I like it, but it's not All Creatures, it is Mrs. Hall and family.

[anna0852]

12 hours ago, ML89 said:

Anyone else expecting Sister Monica Joan as the midwife?

 

12 hours ago, ML89 said:

I was shocked that the midwife did not turn up in a Nonnatus House uniform! I had to remind myself that there are a midwives in Britain other than them.

[Haleth]

Speaking of CTM, I was thinking maybe the US premier would follow ACGAS, but it doesn’t start until 3/17. 

Edited February 20 by Haleth

[Shanna Marie]

12 hours ago, Ancaster said:

I thought it was weird too - they're a "family" of animal lovers, and even with a new baby, it's not as though Oscar (presumably a pretty normal independent cat) would be neglected.

I'm pretty sure cats/kittens were very easy to acquire/save from drowning (sorry, but that's what happened).  If James had wanted to be seen as a good guy, he could just have nominated Siegfried and Carmody to keep their ears open about unwanted cats via the practice.

That got me, too. Surely vets would have access to a steady supply of stray or unwanted cats. If they were just going to give the girl a cat that wasn't hers to replace the one she lost, they didn't have to give up theirs. They could have found another to give her.

[libgirl2]

8 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

That got me, too. Surely vets would have access to a steady supply of stray or unwanted cats. If they were just going to give the girl a cat that wasn't hers to replace the one she lost, they didn't have to give up theirs. They could have found another to give her.

That is what I thought. If it were her cat, of course give it back, but it wasn't! 

[DonnaMae]

15 hours ago, magdalene said:

But this scene did make James and Helen come across as quite fickle - "oh hey, we have a new baby now, don't need the cat anymore."

I think she was just fostering the cat while it healed until they could find a home for it.  

[Dowel Jones]

Maybe the cat's agent got too uppity with salary demands and screen time.

[libgirl2]

3 minutes ago, DonnaMae said:

I think she was just fostering the cat while it healed until they could find a home for it.  

Yes, but how can  you give up such a sweetie?? 

[DonnaMae]

4 hours ago, Doublemint said:

How did Mrs. Hall prepare all of that food for the community?

Did she prepare everything or were some of the side dishes contributed by some of the other women who were there?  Perhaps Mrs. Pumphrey's cook made something. I guess we'll never know.

[sugarbaker design]

On 2/12/2024 at 12:13 PM, iMonrey said:

One think I clocked this episode was the number of times someone used the word "nowt." I've been watching this show since episode 1 and don't remember hearing the word before but it was all over this episode. "Nowt?" 

I remember nowt from Wuthering Heights and the Dalziel/Pascoe novels by Reginald Hill.  Nowt = nothing, owt = something.

[JudyObscure]

Catherine Cookson set most of her novels in Yorkshire and I got used to "nowt" for nothing and "ta" for yes.  My favorite was "gormless lout" for a big dumb guy.

[magdalene]

4 hours ago, DonnaMae said:

think she was just fostering the cat while it healed until they could find a home for it.  

Yikes! I have no memory of that moment. Even though, personally I have failed every single time I have fostered a cat. Oscar would have been another foster fail for me.

[Calvada]

5 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

Catherine Cookson set most of her novels in Yorkshire and I got used to "nowt" for nothing and "ta" for yes.  My favorite was "gormless lout" for a big dumb guy.

I thought "ta" was thanks? 

[JudyObscure]

6 hours ago, Calvada said:

I thought "ta" was thanks? 

Oops. You're right!  

[Daff]

On 2/20/2024 at 9:50 AM, Doublemint said:

How did Mrs. Hall prepare all of that food for the community?

I took the Christmas gathering at the pub to be a solution/alternative to the usual Christmas Eve party at Skeldale, and a way for the community to share whatever local food was available. Mrs. P actually said to Audrey when she dropped off her contribution (that F & M “hamper”), that it was lovely of Audrey to “do this…everyone contributing”. I was left with the impression that Audrey organized it and everyone brought something from their farms. Yes, it was apparent that Mrs. P had never been to Drovers before, but she did attend the next day. It probably wouldn’t have happened if not for the war and Helen’s impending delivery.

[Driad]

PBS article "The Surprising Real History in Season 4"

It says "Tristan is serving in the Royal Army Veterinary Corps, and James is awaiting his call by the RAF."  How did James get assigned to the RAF?  Did he have a choice?

[Orcinus orca]

26 minutes ago, Driad said:

How did James get assigned to the RAF?  Did he have a choice?

I can't speak for how it worked in Britain but when my dad was called up, they went down the line of guys and assigned them randomly. I remember him saying that he was originally supposed to be in the army but the kid next to him broke down crying when he heard he was going in the Navy because he couldn't swim. My dad swapped places with him because he said he could swim faster than he could run!

[Dowel Jones]

I thought that they showed on an earlier episode that James had an enlistment form.  Maybe 'enlistment' was the same for volunteers and draftees, but maybe he got his choice by enlisting.  

[Orcinus orca]

If this is not renewed the final episode was a "feel good" one and an appropriate finale.  True we don't know the fates of Tristan or James but we can leave that to the imagination.

[libgirl2]

5 hours ago, Daff said:

I took the Christmas gathering at the pub to be a solution/alternative to the usual Christmas Eve party at Skeldale, and a way for the community to share whatever local food was available. Mrs. P actually said to Audrey when she dropped off her contribution (that F & M “hamper”), that it was lovely of Audrey to “do this…everyone contributing”. I was left with the impression that Audrey organized it and everyone brought something from their farms. Yes, it was apparent that Mrs. P had never been to Drovers before, but she did attend the next day. It probably wouldn’t have happened if not for the war and Helen’s impending delivery.

I also think it was a way for those, who have loved ones away, not to spend time alone but among friends. 

[NoReally]

20 hours ago, Driad said:

How did James get assigned to the RAF?  Did he have a choice?

Yes, he volunteered for the RAF. He wanted to be a pilot.

[Driad]

Are there photographs of the scenes in the intro?  Especially the train going over what looks like an aqueduct.

[Dowel Jones]

If you search for Yorkshire Viaducts, there's quite a few pictures of various viaducts in the area.  I don't know if they include any related to the series.

[Blergh]

It's VERY lucky for James that that company mascot bird needed him to fix his wing, otherwise, it's probable that the CEO not only wouldn't have brought him home Christmas Day but likely would have had him court martialed for desertion (a capital offense) for his AWOL stunt. Yes, it was noble of James to want to be supportive of Helen as her confinement was getting close (and for Christmas) but that was by no means a unique feeling among the troops who were frequently composed of family men!  It was interesting that this was the very first time that Mrs.Pumphrey had ever entered the Drovers but, thankfully, she seemed to be charmed by it and accepted Helen, Jenny and Mrs. Hall's invites to stay! I imagine that Mrs. Hall and Mrs. Pumphrey (and likely every other woman connected to the fete) had saved their rations for quite a few weeks to pull off this Christmas bounty (and it would have been nice for them to have made mention of it instead of just letting the viewer presume that food was as plentiful and with the same varieties as before the War).  Nice that they just showed the midwife arriving in time to help Helen with her baby seeing the light but NOT the birth itself. Better to leave something to the imagination AND to have Helen introduce her newborn son to both her husband and the viewers! They sure picked a tiny baby for the role who actually appeared as though he might possibly have been  only a few days old instead of older.  Not surprisingly that Helen insisted that they name him for James (as would happen in the books and RL). No doubt, he'll get doted on by his new mother, Mrs. Hall and his maternal grandfather and aunt (and I'll bet his paternal grandparents will try to make a beeline there ASAP).  Mr. Carmody awkwardly pulled off being Father Christmas with his injured backside AND getting more looped than usual. The booze sure loosened his tongue and revealed that he hadn't had a fun upbringing with his parents,etc.

Nice ending (though I imagine Siegfried and Mr. Carmody will find themselves soon struggling to stay patient with the newborn Jimmy's cries at all hours as the novelty of having a newborn under their roof fades). It also wasn't entirely clear whether the youngest Harriot was born during the waning hours of Christmas Eve or early Christmas Day.  I hope it happened during the earlier day since that will give him more of a chance of having his loved ones celebrate his dedicated  birthday instead of said birthday being overwhelmed by Christmas (although many a December baby has had that happen anyway).

Yes, I know I've been late with my comments but my work shift has prevented me from seeing the show any earlier than Friday nights. Well, I look forward to Season Five next year (and hope Tristan and Callum Woodhouse will return for it)!

 

Edited February 27 by Blergh

[pasdetrois]

On 2/19/2024 at 10:30 PM, crankcase said:

To get some sense of what flying a bombing mission over Germany in WWII was like, watch the fictional “Masters of the Air” series on Apple TV.

I'm not sure sure "fictional" is correct. The series was based on a non-fiction book, whose author interviewed 100th Bomb Group veterans extensively for years. The vets were also interviewed by the production/scriptwriting team, and most of the series' stories are lifted from real life. I heard some of the stories at a reunion. My dad flew missions with the group.

Regarding James' bomber service, the RAF flew night time missions, which were safer but less effective than the US daytime missions. US bombers were easily knocked out of daytime skies by the Nazis, and eventually the US switched to nighttime missions. Both services were extremely dangerous and resulted in tremendous loss of RAF and US life and aircraft.

Edited February 24 by pasdetrois

[Shanna Marie]

For another show on the bomber crews, Ewan McGregor and his brother (a former RAF pilot) did a documentary called Bomber Boys that's streaming on Pluto, in which they interviewed some of the crews who were still alive (it was made in 2012), and then the brother got to fly one of the few remaining bombers (with Ewan in the nose gun position). They also went to Germany and interviewed some of the survivors of bombing raids. It was really interesting stuff that got into what it was like for the people in the air and on the ground. I don't know how it would affect someone as softhearted as James is, unless he was able to really distance himself from the idea of the impact of what he was doing, since what he was doing would mostly involve harming civilians, not opposing military forces.

[magdalene]

In case you didn't see it, two more seasons, guys, with Christmas specials!

[Ancaster]

6 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

For another show on the bomber crews, Ewan McGregor and his brother (a former RAF pilot) did a documentary called Bomber Boys that's streaming on Pluto, in which they interviewed some of the crews who were still alive (it was made in 2012), and then the brother got to fly one of the few remaining bombers (with Ewan in the nose gun position). They also went to Germany and interviewed some of the survivors of bombing raids. It was really interesting stuff that got into what it was like for the people in the air and on the ground. I don't know how it would affect someone as softhearted as James is, unless he was able to really distance himself from the idea of the impact of what he was doing, since what he was doing would mostly involve harming civilians, not opposing military forces.

Thank you for this.  Hard to watch but one of those things that should be shown to school children during history lessons when substitutes are brought in because the teacher is "training."

[YorkshireLass]

19 hours ago, magdalene said:

In case you didn't see it, two more seasons, guys, with Christmas specials!

Thanks for this.

There are SPOILERS in this article as to who will be back for season 5.  If you don't want to know, don't click 😃.

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/specialfeatures/all-creatures-great-and-small-seasons-5-and-6-coming-to-masterpiece-on-pbs/#

Edited February 25 by YorkshireLass

[Moxie Cat]

Thanks for the news! I love the show, but my mom will be over the moon about 2 more seasons. 

I can't imagine there isn't a time jump though. Surely they can't sustain an entire season of both James and Tristan being away. 

And if there isn't movement with the Siegfried/Audrey pairing next year, I will SCREAM. I still can't believe we weren't tossed a bone in the Christmas episode! (Sorry, but "Siegfried is right, you are remarkable" just doesn't cut it.)

[magdalene]

3 hours ago, Moxie Cat said:

And if there isn't movement with the Siegfried/Audrey pairing next year, I will SCREAM. I still can't believe we weren't tossed a bone in the Christmas episode! (Sorry, but "Siegfried is right, you are remarkable" just doesn't cut it.)

Smiles. Well, he did put her before Jesus.