S05.E04: Insolubilia

[Bort]

Quote

Munch makes a bold move, Indira and Witt have questions, Wayne takes a fall and Gator disappoints.

Airdate: December 5, 2023

[AimingforYoko]

I've seen some people say Juno Temple doesn't fit this role. I have to respectfully, but vehemently disagree. She's killing it. The parts where Dot(Nadine) was so desperately trying to manifest her own reality by talking it into existence was just some sublime acting.

And Roy Tillman may be a shit lawman, but his gun skills are Givens-like. Don't know if that's going to help with Munch, though.

Edited December 6, 2023 by AimingforYoko

[Starchild]

Did Munch just...not show up on the security cameras?

That scene between Dot and Wayne in the hospital room was really tender.

[Bort]

9 minutes ago, Starchild said:

Did Munch just...not show up on the security cameras?

He cut the power, the cameras weren’t on when he was in the store.

I think we all knew that Gator would get his ass handed to him by Dot. 

Poor Wayne, he’s barely rubbing two brain cells together right now. Hope that’s just from the drugs.

[LadyintheLoop]

Was Gator's mother the other missing wife?

Killing a wife-beating waste of skin to pin a murder on him? Roy must have seen Boardwalk Empire.

[Starchild]

52 minutes ago, kariyaki said:

He cut the power, the cameras weren’t on when he was in the store.

Oh boo, that's not nearly as much fun.

[possibilities]

Pancakes are the real center of this show.

[DMK]

1 hour ago, LadyintheLoop said:

Was Gator's mother the other missing wife?

Pretty likely. Wonder if she ran off and disappeared like Dot or if she’s buried under the stable or something. 

[thuganomics85]

Lorraine at the hospital was kind of giving me Arrested Development-style vibes with the way we saw this ultra-rich person hilariously being out of touch with everything around her, like trying to order nurses around like some kind of serving staff at a restaurant.  Jennifer Jason Leigh is so much fun in this role!

Not surprised that Dot managed to thwart Gator and his merry band of knuckleheads (in their defense, Gator himself is probably King Knucklehead here), but it had a lot of fun traps and solid suspenseful moments, and it now makes me want to see both Juno Temple and Joe Keery reunite in a home invasion action film with them in similar roles again.  But not everything went smoothly, since Wayne ended up getting electrocuted by one of her traps and his memory skills seem to have been shot.  Hey, a perfect way for Dot to maintain her secrets by gaslighting him!

So, Munch broke into Roy's house to basically give him a warning/threat, and it leads to Roy being angry and... killing that wife beater from the premiere?  Sounds like he's trying to frame him for the gas station shooter, I think.  Either way, it's hard to find a way to make someone still come off despicable after taking out a domestic abuser like that, but Roy still manages to pull it off.  Well done, you psycho!

I'm guessing something will come out of Deputy Olmstead having some kind of debt.  Especially since they now reveal that Lorraine's business involves buying up debt.  Hmm...

[Spartan Girl]

1 hour ago, thuganomics85 said:

But not everything went smoothly, since Wayne ended up getting electrocuted by one of her traps and his memory skills seem to have been shot.  Hey, a perfect way for Dot to maintain her secrets by gaslighting him

Yeah, I really don’t like that. She really just needs to tell him the truth. He’s a good guy, he deserves that much.

[Lonesome Rhodes]

I was thoroughly disappointed by the two home invasions which were presaged at the end of the last ep.  For me, it was one, big, Is that all there is?  Three things stood out for me.  One, Dot did not kill when she had a perfect chance to do so.  Two, Gator, despite his awareness of how slick and tough she is, first approached her gently.  His clear intent was to avoid hurting her badly.  This, despite the fact this was the most important test daddy ever put on him.  Are they related by more than her marriage to Roy?  Three, I was struck at how neat the Munch symbol on the wall was.  It almost seemed like he were using good brushes to apply it.  

We did see an ultimate Minnesota Nice moment, fully faithful to that Fargo conceit:  The tone of the debt collector.  Goodness, but he acted as though Dot were his sister.

[Crashcourse]

I think Juno Temple is a shit actress, and I'm tired of the shitty Minnesota accents.  I can't take it any longer, so I'm out.

[tennisgurl]

Dot really needs a better strategy to cover herself than "just a series of wacky misunderstandings and freak accidents" its just making her look like she's hiding something much more sinister than that she's hiding from an abusive husband, plus its basically pointless at this point, no way can she keep this up. I really wish she would at least tell poor Wayne the truth, he's a good guy and I think he would support her if he knew what she was running from. Her trying to basically gaslight him while he might have brain damage is really screwed up. 

I hope that Wayne is alright and that whatever is happening with him is only temporary. 

Roy might be an abusive piece of shit, but he does have damn good aim and I cant be too mad about him killing that abusive husband, if he's going to set up anyone it might as well be him. What in the world is going on with him and him apparently seeing the devil? Is that where the Sin Eater comes in? 

8 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Lorraine at the hospital was kind of giving me Arrested Development-style vibes with the way we saw this ultra-rich person hilariously being out of touch with everything around her, like trying to order nurses around like some kind of serving staff at a restaurant.  Jennifer Jason Leigh is so much fun in this role!

 

"Yes he's lost his left hand, so he's going to be All Right." 

[seacliffsal]

For all the time spent on the Home Alone booby traps I felt that they were anti-climatic.  Kevin did a much better and effective job.  The story built Dot into a home protection savant but it all came to naught.  The ladder neutralized one person and she pushed another down stairs.  Electrocuted her own husband and indirectly set her own home on fire.  How did she get her husband and daughter to quietly hide in the attic?  What did she tell them?  She could have shot them in self-defense as they did invade her home-and there probably would have been evidence both on them and in the van that they were going to kidnap her.  Oh well.  At least her denial of the previous kidnapping has been disproven so the story should start progressing a bit more.

And, I am sad to say that I actually agree with Munch, I want pancakes...

[Ottis]

I’m out, too. Dot’s character makes little sense, Juno is wrong for it and when you go to the Home Alone crap including a drawn-out scene where the henchman is about to open the attic and your mind immediately guffaws “oh yeah, watch the sliding ladder hit him, har har” AND IT DOES, this is all lowest common denominator stuff. I turned it off after Rick Moranis insisted on trying to open the electrified window. This was boring and bad.

[Starchild]

11 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Not surprised that Dot managed to thwart Gator and his merry band of knuckleheads (in their defense, Gator himself is probably King Knucklehead here), but it had a lot of fun traps and solid suspenseful moments

Gator did catch on to the dropping light bulb though. Makes me wonder if they both got the same training from Roy. Or at the very least, she watched and learned, since it doesn't seem in character for him to teach these things to a woman.

 

11 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

So, Munch broke into Roy's house to basically give him a warning/threat, and it leads to Roy being angry and... killing that wife beater from the premiere?  Sounds like he's trying to frame him for the gas station shooter, I think. 

I think it's because the real cops are chasing Munch. If he convinces the state cops that they have the guy who shot one of their own, they stop looking for Munch, and Roy gets to have Munch all to himself to take his secret, awful revenge.

 

[DMK]

20 minutes ago, Starchild said:

I think it's because the real cops are chasing Munch. If he convinces the state cops that they have the guy who shot one of their own, they stop looking for Munch, and Roy gets to have Munch all to himself to take his secret, awful revenge.

Dot too. The cops have a bead on her weird behavior with the onus of Munch being at large but if he’s “killed” then the cops have no reason to talk to Dot anymore, no matter how non sensical her behavior was. 

[edhopper]

I like the show so far, like the story, the characters, the actors. The little touches like Lorraine owns the collection agency going after the police woman (Indira?), But 4 episodes in and I just wonder if they will do anything until the inevitable confrontation between Dot and Roy. Or else it will be a lot of padding. Take some left turns or at least kill off some people.

[LadyintheLoop]

Quote

Dot did not kill when she had a perfect chance to do so.

Unless she somehow disposed of the bodies (a crime in itself) she'd blow what was left of her cover. That's the thing she was avoiding at all costs.

 

RE: Gator and Dot:

Quote

Makes me wonder if they both got the same training from Roy. Or at the very least, she watched and learned, since it doesn't seem in character for him to teach these things to a woman.

I wonder . . . her prints were already in the system, after all. Maybe she'd been accused of partnering in something illegal with Roy? He's clearly obsessed with her; back in the day he might have called it love. I think she was his favorite wife; he may have appreciated her intelligence and feistiness as long as she "knew her place." He may even have been counting on her to bear him a son who wasn't a complete idiot. Could turning up pregnant have been her final impetus to run?

 

[Starchild]

And if he does get a hold of Dot and Scottie, what will he do when he discovers the child is a little more genderfluid than he's likely comfortable with.

[iMonrey]

13 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Lorraine at the hospital was kind of giving me Arrested Development-style vibes with the way we saw this ultra-rich person hilariously being out of touch with everything around her, like trying to order nurses around like some kind of serving staff at a restaurant.  Jennifer Jason Leigh is so much fun in this role!

Agreed. The nurse says she has to check in at the desk like everyone else, and Lorraine turns to Danish and says "She's fired." Very Lucille Bluth.

3 hours ago, seacliffsal said:

How did she get her husband and daughter to quietly hide in the attic? 

I wondered that too. The show seems to have yada-yada'd right over that part.

3 hours ago, seacliffsal said:

And, I am sad to say that I actually agree with Munch, I want pancakes...

FYI - Clare Coulter is listed in the imdb credits as Mama Munch. So I'm taking it at face value right now that she is, in fact, Munch's mother. Not once has she asked him who he is, just why he's there and what he wants.

[possibilities]

Dot couldn't shoot anyone because she didn't have the guns yet. They made a point of saying she couldn't get them right away because of the waiting period, didn't they?

Also, I imagine if she did shoot them, it would be on the news, which would attract way more attention than she wants, and even more rage from Roy.

[seacliffsal]

5 minutes ago, possibilities said:

Dot couldn't shoot anyone because she didn't have the guns yet. They made a point of saying she couldn't get them right away because of the waiting period, didn't they?

Also, I imagine if she did shoot them, it would be on the news, which would attract way more attention than she wants, and even more rage from Roy.

I think that she grabbed a gun that the intruders brought with them and shot at one of them.  But, I may be wrong as I was probably thinking about pancakes at the time...

[peeayebee]

That was Tiny Tim singing in the beginning sequence, right?

I have to say, I didn't have much sympathy for Dot in this ep. I know what's at stake for her, but I found myself not liking her at all. Maybe, as others here said, it was because she's not telling Wayne what's going on. Looks like now's the time to tell him about her past and the controlling, scary husband she had before. Of course that would mean telling Wayne she is married to two men, him and Roy. Also, there's the possibility that Scotty is Roy's daughter. So in a way I can see why she's keeping everything to herself.

Still, I got really tired of her this ep.

Wayne was so sweet in the hospital bed, saying over and over, "You're my wife?" (I think it was.) with tears in his eyes. 

I wonder if Roy's plan all along was to kill that wife-beater so he would have a faux-Munch body to present to the cops. I did like the phrase "a waste of skin." I hadn't heard that before.

I'm not getting much joy out of Lorraine. I find her as despicable as Roy, but while I enjoy Jon Hamm's performance, I can't warm to JJL's. 

Still, I'll continue to watch. I think my favorite character is Ole Munch. Oh, and Witt.

[SnarkAttack]

The commercials, OMG.

[Starchild]

5 hours ago, iMonrey said:

FYI - Clare Coulter is listed in the imdb credits as Mama Munch. So I'm taking it at face value right now that she is, in fact, Munch's mother. Not once has she asked him who he is, just why he's there and what he wants.

I still think that's non-literal. I think they are calling her that because that's the quickest way for us to identify her in the credits.

It seemed to me she didn't recognize him, and she doesn't know why he's in her house.

So, I don't think she's actually his mother. Especially if he really is 500 years old.

[seacliffsal]

8 hours ago, Starchild said:

 

So, I don't think she's actually his mother. Especially if he really is 500 years old.

In which case I really want to know what her skin care routine is...

[iMonrey]

16 hours ago, seacliffsal said:

I think that she grabbed a gun that the intruders brought with them and shot at one of them.  But, I may be wrong as I was probably thinking about pancakes at the time...

No, she did. She shot at one of them when they were coming up the stairs, I can't remember whether or not it was Gator. So she could have killed one of them if she hadn't missed.

13 hours ago, peeayebee said:

That was Tiny Tim singing in the beginning sequence, right?

OMG that was annoying. I was getting really irritated through that whole sequence until the damn music finally got shut off.

13 hours ago, peeayebee said:

I wonder if Roy's plan all along was to kill that wife-beater so he would have a faux-Munch body to present to the cops. I did like the phrase "a waste of skin." I hadn't heard that before.

I've heard it before. And no, I actually don't think Roy went there deliberately to kill the wife beater. He'd said he'd follow up with them later when he met with them at the diner. And when he was asking the wife if she'd been dutiful and respectful, he noticed the abrasions on her arms and realized she was still being abused. I don't know if Roy would even have killed the guy then if he hadn't pulled a gun on him.

[aghst]

22 hours ago, Ottis said:

I’m out, too. Dot’s character makes little sense, Juno is wrong for it and when you go to the Home Alone crap including a drawn-out scene where the henchman is about to open the attic and your mind immediately guffaws “oh yeah, watch the sliding ladder hit him, har har” AND IT DOES, this is all lowest common denominator stuff. I turned it off after Rick Moranis insisted on trying to open the electrified window. This was boring and bad.

If she went all Sarah Conner in Terminator on them, shooting up all the home invaders, which I assume even in MN people are allowed to do, that would have raised more red flags not only for Roy but all law enforcement, following her abduction and escape at the gas station.

She did take shots at Gator or one of the other home invaders at one point but she probably intentionally missed.

In the end, Gator and his crew all slipped away before the cops and the fire dept. showed up.  This is probably Dot's goal, chase them away but not kill anyone, not raise any more suspicions to reveal that she's more than a suburban PTA mom.

So she had her MacGuyver-improvised home security traps, not a real arsenal.  She might decide at one point she has no choice but to shoot if Roy keeps coming for her and her family.

 

 

[Gobi]

Would have been nice of Dot to warn her husband about the live wire prior to the break-in.

[aghst]

Actually the scenes at the Lyons' home wasn't based on Home Alone but Nightmare before Christmas.

Hawley said he loved that film and got the blessing from Tim Burton to use it as an inspiration for this episode.

[Tatum]

I think it was a cheat to have Wayne and Scotty hiding upstairs in the attic at the start of the show when they had just walked into the house a few minutes prior to Gator rolling up per the cliffhanger at the last episode. I cannot even imagine Wayne being willing to run up to the attic and hide before insisting on calling the police.  Or at least his mother, who might be faster than the police. Especially given that Dot didn't come with them.

 

And I am not a fan of Dot telling Scotty that she can't talk about what really happened and coaching her to lie to the police. I understand she wants to keep a low profile, but it should seem abundantly clear this is not going to go away. Roy isn't going to give up, there's an active North Dakota investigation with witnesses, and I wouldn't think her faulty wiring story would hold up if Mama Lyon (in addition to the fire department) launches a full investigation. Every day she lies, she's upping the odds that Scotty or Wayne becomes collateral damage.

 

I did laugh at loud when Dot scolded Gator for coming in with guns when there was a "baby" in the house, and Gator says, um, she's like 9. 

 

[Tatum]

On 12/6/2023 at 8:52 AM, Lonesome Rhodes said:

 Two, Gator, despite his awareness of how slick and tough she is, first approached her gently.  His clear intent was to avoid hurting her badly.  This, despite the fact this was the most important test daddy ever put on him.  Are they related by more than her marriage to Roy? 

I wonder if they did know how slick she was. Gator revealed in the last episode that he didn't engage Munch, he engaged Munch's now dead accomplice, who seemed about as bright as Gator is. When Munch said he could not get Dot, Gator mocked him for not being able to get the better of a small woman. While Munch is clearly not a moron or inept, Gator seems to think he is, and was very (inexplicably) confident he would easily be able to subdue Dot.

 

I do wonder if Dot secretly observed militia training and other tricks of the trade, unbeknownst to Roy.

On 12/5/2023 at 11:02 PM, LadyintheLoop said:

Was Gator's mother the other missing wife?

 

I went back and watched episode 3 beginning, when it pans over the wedding pictures. First wedding picture is Roy and a brunette, who I assume is the current wife and mother of the twins. Second picture is Roy and a blonde, who at first I thought was Dot, but the scene rolled over her picture quickly and paused on a third wedding picture with Roy and a blonde, who was clearly Dot. The first blonde looked like Dot but I think is supposed to be another woman. That could be both Gator's mom and the other missing wife, and it would be interesting if Roy is married to three living women currently (although I'd assume the other missing woman is likely dead).

 

Also, I misheard in the last episode. The militia man visiting was his father in law, not his father. Not sure if that bodes well for the current wife or not.

[iMonrey]

On 12/6/2023 at 10:34 PM, Starchild said:

I still think that's non-literal. I think they are calling her that because that's the quickest way for us to identify her in the credits.

Possibly, but it doesn't make much sense. If she's not actually his mother they could just have her listed as "old woman" or even just "mama" since Munch called her that. Actually listing her character as "Mama Munch" would be deliberately confusing.

On 12/6/2023 at 10:34 PM, Starchild said:

It seemed to me she didn't recognize him, and she doesn't know why he's in her house.

So, I don't think she's actually his mother. Especially if he really is 500 years old.

I just read her confusion as being about why he was there. Any normal person would have asked who the hell he is. That she hasn't asked him who he is seems to support the idea she knows who he is.

And I don't know if he's supposed to literally be 500 years old or if he just resembles an ancestor from 500 years ago. Knowing this show I doubt we'll ever get a definitive answer on that, it's probably meant to be ambiguous. But if he's literally 500 years old there's no reason his mother wouldn't have lived just as long.

[peeayebee]

36 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Possibly, but it doesn't make much sense. If she's not actually his mother they could just have her listed as "old woman" or even just "mama" since Munch called her that. Actually listing her character as "Mama Munch" would be deliberately confusing.

I didn't look at IMDB or any list of credits, but I take that "Mama Munch" as a little joke. I don't think it's confusing. Whether or not she is his actual mother (which I don't think she is), it doesn't really matter at this point.

BTW, I read somewhere that the actor playing Munch improvised the 'mama' line.

 

 

[Starchild]

5 hours ago, iMonrey said:

But if he's literally 500 years old there's no reason his mother wouldn't have lived just as long.

Unless all that chanting and stuff he was doing back in Wales was his own brand of witchcraft. Just because someone is practicing witchcraft doesn't have to mean either of his parents practice it.

 

4 hours ago, peeayebee said:

BTW, I read somewhere that the actor playing Munch improvised the 'mama' line.

If that's the case, then she wasn't written to be his mother. It reinforces the idea that it was just his very old-fashioned way of addressing an elderly woman.

ETA: that kind of ad lib makes sense if the actor is European, as I believe that method of address is definitely a traditional European practice.

Edited December 9, 2023 by Starchild

[MerBearStare]

10 hours ago, Tatum said:

I did laugh at loud when Dot scolded Gator for coming in with guns when there was a "baby" in the house, and Gator says, um, she's like 9. 

I laughed at that too. I hope we see more scenes between Dot and Gator because, based on the little we saw, they seem to have good comedic chemistry. 

[peeayebee]

14 hours ago, Starchild said:

If that's the case, then she wasn't written to be his mother. It reinforces the idea that it was just his very old-fashioned way of addressing an elderly woman.

Exactly.  I won't link to it, but I also read a bit of what the actor said about this whole deal with him moving in with the woman. I know many viewers who don't want info from anything other than what's on screen.

[possibilities]

4 hours ago, peeayebee said:

I won't link to it

I'd enjoy the link. People don't have to click it if they don't want to read the info.

I do think that a show should be able to be watched without external info, but I'm still interested.

[peeayebee]

Ole Munch's Sin Eater.

The quote I referenced is the third paragraph from the end. 

[SemiCharmedLife]

On 12/5/2023 at 9:48 PM, possibilities said:

Pancakes are the real center of this show.

We should have viewing parties complete with pancakes and maple syrup!

[iMonrey]

19 hours ago, peeayebee said:

Ole Munch's Sin Eater.

 

That article makes me like this season a little less. Noah Hawley seems to be pretty far up his own ass IMO. It also reinforces my opinion the season doesn't need Munch. At the very least it doesn't need this added subplot about a sin eater from 500 years ago. Hawley's explanation for the whole thing seems overly contrived.

[sadie]

Why am I not enjoying this. I hated watching Dot gaslight her husband, I really dislike Dot acting like if she just denies anything is happening that it will somehow resolve itself? I keep watching thinking things will click in for me but I’m mostly just bored. 

[Terrafamilia]

Aw, I think Tiny Tim was an underrated national treasure.

If Dot were smart she would have played her denial of the kidnapping as being a result of shock over the whole incident and she has no memory of it or any idea why it happened - surely it was just a case of mistaken identity. At least that would have been easier to sell than a walk to clear her head.

[Lonesome Rhodes]

6 minutes ago, Terrafamilia said:

Aw, I think Tiny Tim was an underrated national treasure.

Miss Vicky would make for a perfect Fargo character.

[Starchild]

Rewatching, I think it's clear he really is 500 years old. In the tub, he says when he was a boy life was survival and only a king had the freedom to want more. He really sounds like he's being literal, not figurative. Truly speaking from experience. 

[stewedsquash]

On 12/10/2023 at 3:32 PM, sadie said:

Why am I not enjoying this. I hated watching Dot gaslight her husband, I really dislike Dot acting like if she just denies anything is happening that it will somehow resolve itself? I keep watching thinking things will click in for me but I’m mostly just bored. 

Right there with you in the “why am I not enjoying this” question yet for me it is Munch and the sheriff not clicking. I understand what  I am supposed to be getting from these two characters but the actors just don’t bring out a connection for me. They are a little “too much” in their portrayals and don’t ring true.
I am shelving this season for now. I am just not into these two and it is making me lose interest in the whole premise of this season.

Also the whole MAGA aspect is offputting. 

Edited January 16 by stewedsquash
quotation marks

[UncleChuck]

Quote

That was Tiny Tim singing in the beginning sequence, right?

OMG that was annoying.

Believe it or not, at one time, folks actually listened to him ON PURPOSE.