S00.E163: The Giggle

[DanaK]

60th Anniversary special #3, starring David Tennant and Catherine Tate

Premieres December 9 at 6:30pm GMT on BBC One and iPlayer in the UK and Disney+ internationally

Synopsis: The giggle of a mysterious puppet is driving the human race insane. When the Doctor discovers the return of the terrifying Toymaker, he faces a fight he can never win.

Writer: Russell T. Davies

Director: Chanya Button

Guest starring Neil Patrick Harris as the Toymaker

Next time trailer

 

[DanaK]

Preview clip

 

[tkc]

I don't want him to go!

[DanaK]

Preview clip #2

 

It appears the first preview clip I posted isn't working. Here's the Youtube version

 

[baldryanr]

You know, Toymaker, Rory was touched by an Angel and died too.

The bi-generation is a huge cop out, though, as is cloning the Tardis.  Of course, RTD did that last time to give Rose her very own copy of the Doctor, so he's repeating his greatest hits, along with some mysterious lady picking up an object that'll allow the Master to return.

[Lebanna]

Did anyone really want The David Tennant Doctor and The Doctor Donna to go, though? Really?

Basically we are all Rose now. We’ve all got what we wanted. 

It is truly such a total cop out, but you know… it’s nearly Christmas, and every now and then, very rarely, not often but sometimes… everybody wins.

And the new Doctor seems absolutely wonderful as well. Can’t wait to see him running around the universe.

Sometimes, if we are all very good, we get to have nice things.

I’m happy.

Edited December 9, 2023 by Lebanna

[Lantern7]

I’m not sure I like the idea of Tennant hanging around like a Doctor Emeritus, ready to pop up in a huge crisis episode or get killed by a Really Serious Villain Who Is Not Mucking About. It feels like a cop-out, even with the funky Doctor/Doctor action we got.

I like the new guy. It would’ve been nice if he had gotten a proper outfit, but I guess that’s what the Christmas episode is for. I’m wondering if he’ll get the post-regeneration loopiness most Doctors wind up with.

NPH? Awesome. I’m guessing that “The Nightmare Fair” is no longer canon. I’m also troubled that we’re going to have more villains with bouncy entrance music. First “Rasputin,” now “Spice Up Your Life.”

Question for the old-school fans . . . was it weird seeing Mel and not hearing her scream? She was nice. Maybe she’ll reunite with Ace in the Doctor support group.

[HawkeyeLo]

Yeah, I’m not mad, that was lovely. And made me very excited for Gatwa's run as the Doctor; I didn’t make it through Twelve. I haven’t seen him in anything, but he clearly has charisma for days. And it’s nice to reboot a bit and have him be able to start fresh in the role.

Also enjoyed NPH’s insane German accent, and the episode was appropriately eerie at many times, as well as fun. “Spice Up Your Life” cracked me up.

[Gin and Tonic]

I genuinely have no idea how I feel about any of this. One the one hand, I feel like I will agree with all the likely criticisms: somewhat of a retread, not being able to let Tennant go, potentially very unfair to Gatwa. 
 

On the other hand, Tennant and Tate are sparkling and spectacular in these roles and seeing them get a happy ending was really satisfying. It also reminds of me thematically of one of my favorite moments in NuWho: when Nine is in the church in Father’s Day, talking about the simple and sublime of two people meeting and falling in love. 
 

Quote

Who said you're not important? I've travelled to all sorts of places, done things you couldn't even imagine, but you two. Street corner, two in the morning, getting a taxi home. I've never had a life like that. 

Some sort of reboot was probably necessary after  the Disney deal. Ultimately, I’m not sure how I’m going to feel about this overall. One thing I am sure of is that Gatwa is charming as fuck and I’m looking very much forward to seeing more of him. 

Edited December 10, 2023 by Gin and Tonic

[Enigma X]

I am not an NPH fan, and his performance was not for me.

I love Tennant. He is my favorite Doctor. So, I am not mad to know he is out there.  I think I am going to like Gatwa as well. I can't wait to get to know him better.

One thing since The Doctor Who Reboot that I am having trouble getting on board with, though, is the notion that the Doctor remains the same person with a different face whose personality does shift through his experiences as opposed to regeneration bringing on a whole new person. Even before this bigeneration development, new Who has voiced that the Doctor is the same person, but they have been written as being a different person. 

I loved seeing Kate and Mel. I adore Donna and her family and am okay with 10/14 staying on, but that is because I adore Tennant. I hope we give Gatwa the room to shine and not call in Tennant until another special anniversary (if even) or so.

Edited December 9, 2023 by Enigma X

[starri]

42 minutes ago, Enigma X said:

I think I am going to like Gatwa as well. I can't wait to get to know him better.

I was skeptical too, but just based on what we got, I think he nailed it.

I’m excited for what comes next, which hasn’t happened in a long, LONG time.

[Affogato]

He gave the moles a forcefield. 

[Meredith Quill]

3 hours ago, Lebanna said:

It is truly such a total cop out, but you know… it’s nearly Christmas, and every now and then, very rarely, not often but sometimes… everybody wins.

And the new Doctor seems absolutely wonderful as well. Can’t wait to see him running around the universe.

Sometimes, if we are all very good, we get to have nice things.

I’m happy.

Hee, nice and all of the above, yes, Yes, YES.

I fangirled at the bi-generation, what a twist, bravo RTD. I loved it all, NPH was absolutely phenomenal, he spiced up the episode for sure (floved that) and with any luck this means a doctor/donna spin off is in the not-too-distant future. Yaaaaas. Gimme.

But, nobody seems to understand the mavity of it all, not even the characters. Presumably, that will be the word used on show earth from now on and forever... but whyyyy tho? 🤔

2 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

Question for the old-school fans . . . was it weird seeing Mel and not hearing her scream? She was nice. Maybe she’ll reunite with Ace in the Doctor support group.

Peter Davidson was the last doctor I watched until nu-who came along. My abiding memory of Bonnie Langford is as a little spoilt posh girl on a kids show called (I think) Just William, throwing a tantrum anytime she didn't get her way and yelling "I'm gonna scream and scream and scream until I'm sick!". Fun fact, as a kid I randomly got her autograph on a day out in London with my parents one time.

[Starchild]

39 minutes ago, SilverStormm said:

with any luck this means a doctor/donna spin off is in the not-too-distant future. Yaaaaas. Gimme. 

OK glad I'm not the only one hoping for this. Even if it makes no in-universe sense. Don't care. Want.

[starri]

Even if they only make guest appearances on a potential UNIT-based show with Jemma Redgrave, I’m fine with that.

[Sakura12]

I wasn't ready to say goodbye to Tennant again. I guess I don't have too. 10 has a clone in a parallel world and now a bi-generation. The universe must really like his face. Not that I'm complaining, I like his face too.

NPH was an okay villian. I did like the Spice up Your Life dance. 

I do like the new Doctor's personality. They seem to be calmer and more carefree. Did he let go of all the baggage the Doctor always carried around. Although why did he get a shirt but no pants? 

I guess the Master will be around again as well. 

My only complaint was it felt more like an anniversary for 10 and Donna then a 60th Doctor Who anniversary. I know we had Mel and mentions of some of the Doctor's previous Companions, but that was it.

[Meredith Quill]

52 minutes ago, Starchild said:

OK glad I'm not the only one hoping for this. Even if it makes no in-universe sense. Don't care. Want.

Even if it were only episodes of the doctor with Donna (with/without her family - don't mind either way), sitting in front of a fire with him telling Donna all the stories of his adventures since they parted ways in.minute.detail - I'd be happy with that.

16 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

I do like the new Doctor's personality. They seem to be calmer and more carefree. Did he let go of all the baggage the Doctor always carried around. Although why did he get a shirt but no pants? 

I guess the Master will be around again as well. 

They shared clothing - 14 retained his waistcoat, undershirt and trousers, 15 got the shirt, tie and footwear, but who got the undies? One of them was commando! lol.

Yeah, re personality, it'll be a refreshing change to see a non-angst filled Doctor who doesn't blame themselves for everything, that had got a bit old.

I'd love to see Missy again but mustn't be greedy I suppose.

[NeenerNeener]

18 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

Although why did he get a shirt but no pants? 

He got half of the outfit that Tennant was (supposedly) wearing: the shirt, the tie, the underpants and the sneakers. Tennant got the undershirt, the vest and pants.

If only one of them could wear the pants, I'm more than fine with seeing Gatwa's bum in tighty whiteys.

ETA: while the bigeneration is indeed a cop-out I'm glad RTD didn't make me watch 10/14 die again.

Edited December 10, 2023 by NeenerNeener

[Sakura12]

27 minutes ago, SilverStormm said:

They shared clothing - 14 retained his waistcoat, undershirt and trousers, 15 got the shirt, tie and footwear, but who got the undies? One of them was commando! lol.

I guess 14 was running around commando, since 15 had the tighty whiteys on. 

[ElleryAnne]

Donna is my hero.  Between demanding twice the salary AND five weeks' vacation if she accepts the UNIT job, and then facing down those creepy, creepy dolls, she is my hero. 

NPH was great as the Toymaker.  The scene with him controlling marionette-Charlie was a bit disturbing, but I loved it.

Bi-generation... I think I'm ok with it, since we get to keep Tennant and Tate somewhere in the background and potentially able to appear in a future episode.  Better than Fourteen gone and Donna dead, which is what I was worried might happen.  (Now I feel bad for Martha - she's the only one of Ten's main companions not to get a leftover doctor.)

Fifteen looks like he's going to be fun. I wonder if he sings along to whatever music he has in the jukebox. 

[Sailorgirl26]

I think I really loved that! Once again we get a Tennant regeneration that is...Tennant!! 

Gatwa has the personality to play against Tennant and that is no small feat! I loved him just bopping all over the place in his undies and that smile just goes for days--I think he's going to be a great doctor!!

NPH is never not fantastic and he clearly had a blast camping it up. 

Whose fingernailed hand picked up the gold tooth with the master? I guess we shall see!!

I'm excited for the Gatwa Era! 

 

Edited December 10, 2023 by Sailorgirl26

[QuantumMechanic]

Soooo....

I thought the bi-generation thing was going to mean that FourTenTeen was now mortal and would be stuck on earth and that's how he'd let go and "stop".

But I guess he's neither mortal nor stuck on earth.

So the letting go and stopping is (I guess?) because with another Doctor out there he doesn't have to do anything anymore and can just have a life because Fifteen and beyond will be out saving the Universe?

[Turtle Wexler]

Overall, I enjoyed this, and I’m glad we got a bit of time with 15. I can’t stand NPH, so I wasn’t thrilled when I heard that he was going to be in one of the specials, but the chewing-scenery aspect of the Toymaker’s personality worked with him in the role. 
 

I’m glad that 14 didn’t go, and instead gets to stay with Donna. Yes, it’s a cop out, but it means they get to be together, which isn’t terrible. I just started rewatching episodes with Donna, so the ending of this was a nice callback to The Runaway Bride, where she invites him for dinner and he accepts but then leaves. I don’t think they’ll keep bringing him back constantly. Or, I hope not. That wouldn’t be fair to Gatwa, and would get boring after a while, if viewers knew to expect it.

I am very excited to see what Gatwa will do in the role. I’ve only previously seen him in Barbie, and enjoyed whenever he was on screen.

 

Sidenote—I was watching with the closed captions and they kept referring to 14 as 10! 

[festivus]

So, the funniest thing is that the Doctor wears tighty whiteys, lol. You'd think like boxers with hearts on them or something. I loved Ncuti in Sex Education so I'm real excited for his Doctor.

I really was shocked with this twist and I'm just fine with it. Friendship as a happy ending. My favorite thing.

I thought NPH was really good. Especially the part where he was showing what happened to some of the Doctor's previous companions. Loved seeing Mel, I'm just now getting acquainted with her because we have been watching the 7th Doctor's run. She looks great.

It's so nice to be excited to watch Doctor Who again.

[JustHereForFood]

That was lovely.

I loved the Toymaker, he seemed very much like the Master, only he apparently could be gotten rid off permanently. Loved the commentary on the current era, where everybody thinks they're right and has all of that anger that just waits for a convenient excuse to be let out. Very meta considering all of the internet rage that is now happening.

So, 14 got all the angst and 15 is now free to go on adventuring all happy and carefree while 14 gets to relax with Donna's family and emotionally heal? Can't complain about any of that, it doesn't seem like a bigger thing than the War Doctor or Timeless children and why not, DW is all about new things, we wouldn't still have the show without ideas like these. I did not care much about Rose's happy end with the Metacrisis Doctor but here, 14 sitting there with the family really got me emotionally. 

ETA: The Doctor did get time off before sometimes, for example with River at the end of The Husbands of River Song.

 

2 hours ago, NeenerNeener said:

ETA: while the bigeneration is indeed a cop-out I'm glad RTD didn't make me watch 10/14 die again.

I have seen a comment somewhere a few days ago, speculating that it would end with 14 saying "I'm ready to go" as a reference to 10's regeneration, which seemed like a good idea, I guess we sort of got that with him being ready and with two companions at his side.

I'm already looking forward to the Christmas special.

14 minutes ago, Turtle Wexler said:

Sidenote—I was watching with the closed captions and they kept referring to 14 as 10! 

Yes, that bugged me too.

Edited December 10, 2023 by JustHereForFood

[magdalene]

I don't care that some people call this a cop-out. I got what I wanted.

[baldryanr]

13 minutes ago, JustHereForFood said:

I have seen a comment somewhere a few days ago, speculating that it would end with 14 saying "I'm ready to go" as a reference to 10's regeneration, which seemed like a good idea, I guess we sort of got that with him being ready and with two companions at his side.

On the nerd side, I guess we have confirmation that regeneration energy is harmless to humans?  Because Donna and Mel were in position to get hit with a full blast if this had been a standard change.

If 14 can still regenerate then maybe he's the one who will eventually become the Curator - no need to feel guilty about being retired if another version of you is running around saving the galaxy.

[JustHereForFood]

The way I understood it, 14 will not regenerate into another Doctor, but sort of timey-wimey regenerate into 15 once his time is up, whenever that is, and that is why 15 is so calm and emotionally ok.

It reminds me sort of of Buffy, when Buffy was briefly clinically dead and Kendra became the next slayer, the lineage was passed to her and the next slayer (Faith) was activated by Kendra's death, not Buffy's.

[DanaK]

I enjoyed this overall. I liked what we saw so far of Ncuti’s Doctor. I’m not entirely sure how I feel about the bigeneration but hopefully it will be rarely used. I’m a little unsettled by the ending. The scene with David as 14 having a happy retirement with Donna  and her family as his chosen family felt like what I would want to see if the show ever ended and it made me feel both happy and sad because it felt like a show-ending scene, but then we get to see Ncuti’s 15 getting ready to take off for a new adventures which made me happy, so I’ve got confused feelings about the ending

[TheOtherOne]

Not tighty whities; white boxer briefs. (And yes, I was paying close attention.)

 

[PurpleTentacle]

Hmm I don't know about this episode. I think with the return of the toymaker and NPH in the role, I would have wished for something less bombastic and more intimate. Start with the world ripping itself apart, if you have to, but then go to some smaller (mind)games. There was a short sequence of that, but I'd have prefered it if it was most of the episode.

Speaking of, so the doctor remembers Clara again? When did that happen?

I'm not sure the ending is much of a solution. Wouldn't the Gatwa doctor also need time to decompress from all his recent tragedies? I can only see that working if him and the Tennant doctor fuse again at some point.

But it was nice that Donna and the 10th doctor got a happy ending with a big happy family.

[dmmetler]

They're well set up for a UNIT spin-off like Torchwood, with Kate, Shirley, Mel, Donna, and very light doctor content. Which I would watch the heck out of. 

[PurpleTentacle]

8 hours ago, baldryanr said:

Of course, RTD did that last time to give Rose her very own copy of the Doctor, so he's repeating his greatest hits, along with some mysterious lady picking up an object that'll allow the Master to return.

If we are bringing old actors back anyway, can we just bring back Michelle Gomez? I loved her as the master and would love to see more of her. I think her dynamic with Gatwa could be really fun.

7 hours ago, Enigma X said:

One thing since The Doctor Who Reboot that I am having trouble getting on board with, though, is the notion that the Doctor remains the same person with a different face whose personality does shift through his experiences as opposed to regeneration bringing on a whole new person. Even before this bigeneration development, new Who has voiced that the Doctor is the same person, but they have been written as being a different person. 

The doctor has never been a completely different person after a regneration. However, regeneration changes their personality drastically, to the point where they are almost a different person, it's not just the experiences. We had a whole long, drawn out spiel about it in Tennants victory tour of death, where he whined about it for 4 specials straight and then at the end whined "I don't want to go".

Nice, btw. that they changed it this time to "it's time". Of course very much undercut by him not actually regenerating.

4 hours ago, SilverStormm said:

They shared clothing - 14 retained his waistcoat, undershirt and trousers, 15 got the shirt, tie and footwear, but who got the undies? One of them was commando! lol.

Tennant had the weirdest undershirt I've ever seen, even with long sleeves. Who would wear that, unless maybe it's the deepest of winter? But I guess it technically was an undershirt.

But it's pretty obvious that this shirt was chosen because they wanted to keep the look of the doctor consistent, even without a real shirt.

[PurpleTentacle]

1 hour ago, JustHereForFood said:

The way I understood it, 14 will not regenerate into another Doctor, but sort of timey-wimey regenerate into 15 once his time is up, whenever that is, and that is why 15 is so calm and emotionally ok.

I think you are right or at least they are still very much connected somehow and the Tennant doctor's lifetime is technically before the Gatwa doctor's.

The Gatwa doctor says at one point in the Tardis: "I'm fine because you fix yourself. We are timelords. We are doing rehab out of order."

So the Tennant doctor fixing himself explains why the Gatwa doctor is fine now. That answers my question from above and makes me like the ending more. Also a nice way to shake off the very, very heavy last few years and start something a bit more light hearted.

29 minutes ago, dmmetler said:

They're well set up for a UNIT spin-off like Torchwood, with Kate, Shirley, Mel, Donna, and very light doctor content. Which I would watch the heck out of. 

Actually I was wondering why the Tardis now has a wheelchair ramp. That would certainly explain that.

Edited December 10, 2023 by PurpleTentacle

[gail56]

Did any else think that Kate was going to slap the Doctor as she was approaching him? That look on her face!

I loved this episode! Like the others I am so glad we got to keep 14, and he gets to relax with Donna and family! Mel looks great and she fits right in. I love happy endings! 

15 looks like he is going to be a lot of fun.

[PurpleTentacle]

4 minutes ago, gail56 said:

Did any else think that Kate was going to slap the Doctor as she was approaching him? That look on her face!

Yep. I think they were going for that.

[Kite]

Uhhh first impressions, but I was annoyed about the bi-generation thing. A bit too much Tennant Doctor content during Whittaker's run, an intercedent imma let you finish but—, and then the dude doesn't even actually go at the end, and Gatwa feels like a secondary character during what is generally a really momentous passing on of the torch. Okay audience, you needed some hand-holding, is that it? 

I've really enjoyed Tennant's Doctor, don't get me wrong. Just come onnnnn, not another splitting him into two thing, and this one gets to hang around in Gatwa's arena. Let it go, RTD!

Any other impressions of the ep still percolating while I process this. 

EDIT: Okay, I’ve now seen the trailer for the Christmas special and I’m feeling somewhat more positive.

I’m calling it here, the Master will come back as a dude and the onscreen unresolved sexual tension will be off the charts. Or rather, jilted lover tension, guess who. 

Edited December 10, 2023 by Kite

[Llywela]

7 hours ago, baldryanr said:

On the nerd side, I guess we have confirmation that regeneration energy is harmless to humans?  Because Donna and Mel were in position to get hit with a full blast if this had been a standard change.

Regeneration energy was always harmless to everyone and everything throughout the classic era, it was New Who that introduced the idea of it blowing the TARDIS up all around it, so this was more of a return to a previous standard than anything.

[DanaK]

Overnights were 4.62 million viewers and I think was 3rd. Strictly was #1 with 7.56, I’m a Celebrity was 2nd with 5.25

[Llywela]

Don't have the bandwidth for proper episode commentary right now, but I do just want to note that, just as the Doctor was not UNIT's first scientific advisor as he claimed the other week, Melanie was also not the Doctor's first red-headed companion (Turlough and Liz Shaw both preceded her, and even Ben Jackson back in the 60s was a bit of a ginge).

I feel like I should be cross about the bigeneration, but it follows precedent set by the Watcher and the Valeyard way back in the 80s, so I can live with it. Fun episode. Looking forward to Christmas.

I just hope fandom will now get over their aversion to calling Tennant's second go-round Fourteen, because that he unequivocally is. Gatwa is Fifteen.

Edited December 10, 2023 by Llywela

[cardigirl]

Lots to enjoy in this episode and I did enjoy it, BUT, can we please STOP with the endless corridors? It was annoying in the last episode and then to repeat that effect again this episode bored me.

Looking forward to 15's tenure. 

Edited December 10, 2023 by cardigirl

[Llywela]

Eh, endless corridors have been a Who staple since the beginning, so what better way to celebrate the anniversary than by running around in a few of them!

[JustHereForFood]

10 hours ago, PurpleTentacle said:

Actually I was wondering why the Tardis now has a wheelchair ramp. That would certainly explain that.

The Doylist and rather heartwarming explanation for the ramp is here, starting around 12 minutes:

 

10 hours ago, gail56 said:

Did any else think that Kate was going to slap the Doctor as she was approaching him? That look on her face!

I thought exactly that and was very glad to be wrong. I don't like how flippant people still are about women slapping men on screen and I already grumbled when Sylvia did it in the first special.

[DoctorAtomic]

I stopped a little of the way in to look up the Toymaker and Mel, but the show was really moving. 

I was unspoiled for the bi-generation. I was confused when nothing happened. I thought it was funny and watched it a couple of times. I mean, it's Doctor Who; you have to roll with it. 

Too bad we could have had a longer, Two Doctors adventure. 

The scene of them outside at the end with the TARDIS just hanging out was nice. 

[Sakura12]

Someone on threads posted what the real Stookie Bill images looked like. 

https://www.threads.net/@mxheathcliff/post/C0qpsnqNP3A/?igshid=NTc4MTIwNjQ2YQ==

 

[DoctorAtomic]

I was thinking about the show today, and I also agree with the general pov about Fifteen being more swashbuckling, adventurous. I also agree that it didn't make any sense and no one cares.

I appreciate injecting the pathos into the Doctor in general since Nine, but a more carefree Doctor is an appropriate narrative direction after we basically got a coda to Ten/Fourteen and Donna. Maybe Fourteen can take Donna's family on vacation. Barcelona?

Two Doctors at the same time, same regeneration. It's like the two Popes! The Pope would be a great Doctor Who villain. 

Edited December 10, 2023 by DoctorAtomic

[libgirl2]

Mel got the respect she deserved. The Doctor loved Sarah Jane. I teared up. And Donna is 10s companion. Each one has theirs.

Edited December 11, 2023 by libgirl2

[Kite]

11 hours ago, Llywela said:

Eh, endless corridors have been a Who staple since the beginning, so what better way to celebrate the anniversary than by running around in a few of them!

Yup, one of the things I loved the most growing up with the old series was the idea of endless corridors. The title sequence often reflected that. Running through infinity.

But horses for courses. The show is too eclectic and long-running for anyone to like everything always.

[Turtle Wexler]

21 hours ago, PurpleTentacle said:

Actually I was wondering why the Tardis now has a wheelchair ramp. That would certainly explain that.

I would also watch this. 😁

 

Ruth Madeley explained that RTD told her he’d gotten a letter from a fan who was a wheelchair user, and they said, “Even though I can’t get into the TARDIS because I’m a wheelchair user, I just love it,” and so RTD immediately made the change. Madeley said that she cried when RTD told her that.🥲

 

It starts at about 12:14 in the BTS video.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=X9WI4kZ7Ubk

[Cthulhudrew]

So UNIT bought Avengers Tower? 

Not entirely sure how I feel about the Bi-Generation. It was an interesting twist, and frankly I'd be fine if this is how future regenerations go (leaving the doors open for older actors to return without having to make "timey-wimey" excuses). I feel like if they were going to do this, though, 10/14 should have ended up with Rose (might it have been a little awkward with his other version, but they could always be a throuple).

It will be interesting to see who they get to play the Master next time around, although I'd echo the comment above about bringing Missy back. Michelle Gomez was the best version of the character since Anthony Ainley (and I so wanted John Simm to be good, but he didn't get very good material and/or hammed things up too much.)

These three Who specials were the most fun I've had watching this show in years.