S04.E12: Icy Apologies

[TexasGal]

Quote

The ladies are unsure about how they feel about going on a trip with Monica for her birthday as Monica turns to Mary for advice; A lunch between Lisa and Meredith leaves their friendship on shaky ground; When Whitney loses a close friend, she looks to the ladies for support but finds one of them isn't as empathetic as she expects.

Airdate: 11.28.2023

[Straycat80]

Ever notice whenever these ladies visit each other at home they always have a charcuterie board made up? 

[FlyingEgret]

It looked like the Plated price tags I could see were showing $1,500 - is that "affordable" nowadays?

[QQQQ]

"Everything is all about you!" cries Whitney when Lisa doesn't make Sheri's death all about Whitney.

[Straycat80]

I’m sorry Whitney’s friend died but Whitney made it all about her and if she was so upset then why go to Meredith’s event? For attention of course. 
I don’t believe for one minute that Lisa and Monica have made up and will be friends. 
 

[JenE4]

Whitney and Justin in their matching Gucci T-shirts deciding they don’t need therapy—a podcast is the way to go.

I’ll give Monica one thing. Her Lisa impersonation was dead on.

Modern Missionary Menswear. I’ve seen it all. They have stretchy pants like Lululemon! I spoke too soon! Now I’ve seen everything! their tie display is much more colorful than I imagined. This establishment really is putting the modern in Missionary menswear!

Lisa was in Russian mobsters’ limos at 18?!? Now that’s a story we want to hear!

Whitney confronting Lisa on her lack of empathy or acknowledgement of her friend’s passing is giving me flashbacks to when Meredith’s father died. Haven’t these people learned that you’re not going to get empathy from Lisa? Maybe she could relate if the soda machine broke at 7-11.

[princelina]

2 hours ago, Straycat80 said:

I’m sorry Whitney’s friend died but Whitney made it all about her and if she was so upset then why go to Meredith’s event? For attention of course. 
I don’t believe for one minute that Lisa and Monica have made up and will be friends. 

I don't believe any of them are friends, and on this franchise in particular.  If Lisa is so awful, why was she the "only one Whitney told"?  She said she talked about it with her for the past 5 days?  In that case I can understand Lisa coming in and keeping it light and thinking Whitney was there for some grief relief.

[Marley]

Look it’s horrible Whitney’s friend died young it’s a tragedy obv but Whitney is making it all about herself. She also was obv mad Lisa and Heather are friends again because she kept harping on Lisa giving Heather a gift. Not saying Lisa is this empathetic person but Whitney was doing too much.

Meredith is so ridiculous with her weird accent and outrage it cracks me up.

I FF the Mary scenes. No thanks. 

[dancingdreamer]

I get a kick out of Monica. Watching  Mary( who looked so young with no makeup  and a smile) and Monica was enjoyable  for me. Watching  Lisa clothes shopping  with her son was not. She says she knows  all about a mission,  and chooses clothing , obviously wrong.

I'm glad Meredith shut Lisa down at lunch, because  Lisa only cares about Lisa. 

I felt sorry  for Whitney.

[Chatty Cake]

It’s sad that Whitney’s friend passed. She may have wanted her to go to Merediths jewelry party but I doubt she would have wanted her to act like an attention seeking asshole.

When nice Monica shows up, she doesn’t bother me. Heather is right, she has 3 personalities. 

[Baltimore Betty]

Lisa would dress her mission bound kid like one of the guys from Dumb & Dumber if she had it her way.

Whitney losing her friend is sad and tragic and everything in between but Whit running around telling her HW friends and expecting them to be as upset as she is is a reach, those people probably didn't know her friend that died...so Whit does what Whit does and makes it all about herself. So now anytime that something happens Whit will chime in with "Well my friend just died." Don't get me wrong, it is painful and horrible to lose anyone but somehow Whit makes it easy to be less then sympathetic with her about such things, I might be a callous ass but that is how I see it and I think you might think the same way. Whit has fillings, I git it.

Didn't we just have a jewelry party last week for Whitney's Intentional Jewelry? Is this sort of like the one wick, three wick sort of thing? Whit doesn't give a wit about her friend encroaching on the same territory? I know Meredith has had a fine jewelry for years but did Whit know Meredith would be competition for over priced junk jewelry?  Whit wore a necklace from her brand over the collar of a sequined dress, it did not look good, that was not a necklace neckline maybe just earrings with that dress but I will give her grace since her friend just died. (I am not heartless, my brother died 28 years ago from leukemia and it still hits me like it just happened yesterday), so don't think I am the ahole but snark is my middle name, my brother would have wanted it this way.

Meredith creates a jewelry line for those who cannot afford her fine jewelry line and she priced hers from $50 to $500, I am sure I am not spending $500 on costume jewelry, Amazon is full of fake stuff for way less.

We see Monica manhandling the earrings, they are a monogram sort of hoops, it is an "M" can you get another letter, can you buy a vowel?

Monica brings rum and donuts for all the women then some outsiders see the goodies and she fake chases them away but then gives them the rum and donuts (after fake stranger tells her she has style and taste, sure Jan), were those meant for Mary the Invisible Preacher Woman? She would not be interested in either of those things and if they were meant for Angie "The Greek" K. she would have wondered why it wasn't a bottle of Ouzo and baklava.  I have noticed that none of my friends have brought me rum and a box of donuts but that is a thought for another time.  All the women leave the boxes of donuts and rum on the table in pursuit of other less caloric things.

We see Lisa (waiting for Meredith) and she is wearing those hideous windshield sunglasses that Angie wore, like they don't get better looking if more people wear them!

 

 

[luckyroll3]

Lisa is very self absorbed, but what does her giving Heather a gift have to do with the death of Whitney's friend???? I'm so confused. Oh, and did you hear that Whitney's friend died?

[politichick]

14 hours ago, Straycat80 said:

Ever notice whenever these ladies visit each other at home they always have a charcuterie board made up? 

OMG. On every show. I never want to see one again--on TV or in real life!

[Natalie68]

15 hours ago, QQQQ said:

"Everything is all about you!" cries Whitney when Lisa doesn't make Sheri's death all about Whitney.

This is one time I kinda understood Lisa.  Do you go up to Whitney and say something to make her cry at an event?  Maybe Whitney wants to 'forget' for a minute?  I too wonder what the right thing to do would be.  Not that I don't think Lisa is WAY self absorbed, I can see not knowing the right reaction.  She sent flowers, she acknowledged the death.  Whitney was going for her Oscar in the scene.  Her reaction told me she should have stayed at home.  

6 hours ago, Baltimore Betty said:

Lisa would dress her mission bound kid like one of the guys from Dumb & Dumber if she had it her way.

Whitney losing her friend is sad and tragic and everything in between but Whit running around telling her HW friends and expecting them to be as upset as she is is a reach, those people probably didn't know her friend that died...so Whit does what Whit does and makes it all about herself. So now anytime that something happens Whit will chime in with "Well my friend just died." Don't get me wrong, it is painful and horrible to lose anyone but somehow Whit makes it easy to be less then sympathetic with her about such things, I might be a callous ass but that is how I see it and I think you might think the same way. Whit has fillings, I git it.

Didn't we just have a jewelry party last week for Whitney's Intentional Jewelry? Is this sort of like the one wick, three wick sort of thing? Whit doesn't give a wit about her friend encroaching on the same territory? I know Meredith has had a fine jewelry for years but did Whit know Meredith would be competition for over priced junk jewelry?  Whit wore a necklace from her brand over the collar of a sequined dress, it did not look good, that was not a necklace neckline maybe just earrings with that dress but I will give her grace since her friend just died. (I am not heartless, my brother died 28 years ago from leukemia and it still hits me like it just happened yesterday), so don't think I am the ahole but snark is my middle name, my brother would have wanted it this way.

Meredith creates a jewelry line for those who cannot afford her fine jewelry line and she priced hers from $50 to $500, I am sure I am not spending $500 on costume jewelry, Amazon is full of fake stuff for way less.

We see Monica manhandling the earrings, they are a monogram sort of hoops, it is an "M" can you get another letter, can you buy a vowel?

Monica brings rum and donuts for all the women then some outsiders see the goodies and she fake chases them away but then gives them the rum and donuts (after fake stranger tells her she has style and taste, sure Jan), were those meant for Mary the Invisible Preacher Woman? She would not be interested in either of those things and if they were meant for Angie "The Greek" K. she would have wondered why it wasn't a bottle of Ouzo and baklava.  I have noticed that none of my friends have brought me rum and a box of donuts but that is a thought for another time.  All the women leave the boxes of donuts and rum on the table in pursuit of other less caloric things.

We see Lisa (waiting for Meredith) and she is wearing those hideous windshield sunglasses that Angie wore, like they don't get better looking if more people wear them!

 

 

Me neither.  I need better friends!

[Keywestclubkid]

I am gonna ask again.. Why is Mary on this show when she goes to no events and has Zero interaction with the group really?

[Pi237]

I have to close caption all of Meredith scenes. Even Lisa knew she was lit. 'What's in that?' Big smile on her face.

Meredith, defensive 'I get dehydrated!'.  Whatever you say, vodka sauce!

Lisa was right, there might be rumors about them all, but it doesn't give Meredith a pass to use them as threats. Everyone knows saying them on camera gives them life. Mushmouth never seems like a fun hang. I'd dare say Mary would be more fun. 

Speaking of, Mary looked shockingly well put together on her Monica date. Was hoping Monica was serious about not going in the trip. She's going to Sour all over it.

[JenE4]

1 minute ago, Natalie68 said:

This is one time I kinda understood Lisa.  Do you go up to Whitney and say something to make her cry at an event?  Maybe Whitney wants to 'forget' for a minute?  I too wonder what the right thing to do would be.  Not that I don't think Lisa is WAY self absorbed, I can see not knowing the right reaction.  She sent flowers, she acknowledged the death.  Whitney was going for her Oscar in the scene.  Her reaction told me she should have stayed at home.  

I don’t know. Lisa started off by saying, do you expect me to catalogue everything that happens in everyone’s lives and was admitting she forgot the friend died, even though Whitney was apparently talking to her about it for 5 days straight. Then by the end of the conversation she was saying, I sent flowers this morning! They should be on the way! Which to me sounds like she totally made that up to get off the hook after being berated for 10 minutes straight. Did you forget, or did you know and send flowers? Maybe she forgot she sent flowers, too. I’m curious whether she ran out of there and called a florist just to prove she was right or was so angry she didn’t bother. Anyway, Whitney kind of went off the rails and was obviously misdirecting her grief. But Lisa really had no excuse to be so defensive and combative. Just say, I’m sorry. I can’t imagine how devastating it is to lose your best friend. I’m here for you. That’s all Whitney wanted, but Lisa had to keep amping it up about how she’s not in the wrong. It was the same with her conversation with Meredith earlier. Meredith pointed out the irony of being blamed for mentioning she had dirt on Angie, when Lisa just said the exact same thing about Monica. Instead of admitting, that, yeah, you’re right. We say these things when we’re angry and you didn’t expose anything about Angie. Instead Lisa totally doubled down on how dare you accuse me blah-blah-blah. Whitney might have made her grief seem to matter more, but somehow Lisa managed to make herself the victim of Whitney’s grief, which was way worse because she is two people removed from the deceased. Everyone on this show really goes out of their way to “take their moment to shine” by making their feelings the focal point, but Lisa is far worse than the rest of the original cast members. Ironically, Monica is the only one who matches—and possibly surpasses—the narcissistic victim role, which is probably why they can’t stand each other. Monica and Lisa are constantly trying to outdo each other on who’s the biggest victim, while both being the most vicious loudmouth in order to try to make their victimhood heard.

[Natalie68]

12 minutes ago, JenE4 said:

I don’t know. Lisa started off by saying, do you expect me to catalogue everything that happens in everyone’s lives and was admitting she forgot the friend died, even though Whitney was apparently talking to her about it for 5 days straight. Then by the end of the conversation she was saying, I sent flowers this morning! They should be on the way! Which to me sounds like she totally made that up to get off the hook after being berated for 10 minutes straight. Did you forget, or did you know and send flowers? Maybe she forgot she sent flowers, too. I’m curious whether she ran out of there and called a florist just to prove she was right or was so angry she didn’t bother. Anyway, Whitney kind of went off the rails and was obviously misdirecting her grief. But Lisa really had no excuse to be so defensive and combative. Just say, I’m sorry. I can’t imagine how devastating it is to lose your best friend. I’m here for you. That’s all Whitney wanted, but Lisa had to keep amping it up about how she’s not in the wrong. It was the same with her conversation with Meredith earlier. Meredith pointed out the irony of being blamed for mentioning she had dirt on Angie, when Lisa just said the exact same thing about Monica. Instead of admitting, that, yeah, you’re right. We say these things when we’re angry and you didn’t expose anything about Angie. Instead Lisa totally doubled down on how dare you accuse me blah-blah-blah. Whitney might have made her grief seem to matter more, but somehow Lisa managed to make herself the victim of Whitney’s grief, which was way worse because she is two people removed from the deceased. Everyone on this show really goes out of their way to “take their moment to shine” by making their feelings the focal point, but Lisa is far worse than the rest of the original cast members. Ironically, Monica is the only one who matches—and possibly surpasses—the narcissistic victim role, which is probably why they can’t stand each other. Monica and Lisa are constantly trying to outdo each other on who’s the biggest victim, while both being the most vicious loudmouth in order to try to make their victimhood heard.

I get no one on this show is a hero and they are all self absorbed.  But from personal experience, I struggle with the correct response in that particular public situation.  I don't even like Lisa but I understood why she may have acted the way she did PRE fight.  She should not have fought, made excuses etc.  But Lisa wasn't the only one making Sheri's death about her.  If Whitney went FOR Sheri, she should have acted how Sheri would have wanted and celebrated like Sheri did the week before for Whit's jewelry line.  Instead she made a scene in Sheri's name.  Which is why she should have stayed home.  She was too raw.

[Pi237]

The thing with Whitney.and actually they All do this. After they state their offense, the person apologizes. Then, they Keep restating why they’re offended. The person apologies again and again, but On and On the offended person goes with their Hurt and Feelings, escalating into the Walk Out.  There was nothing Lisa could’ve done or said, Whitney was determined to ream her out and have her stomp out moment.

[Natalie68]

3 hours ago, Keywestclubkid said:

I am gonna ask again.. Why is Mary on this show when she goes to no events and has Zero interaction with the group really?

I am not sure.  I do find her interactions with Monica pretty entertaining.  Other than that?  She is a complete rude nutter.

[swankie]

21 hours ago, QQQQ said:

"Everything is all about you!" cries Whitney when Lisa doesn't make Sheri's death all about Whitney.

I was going to post the same thing!  I mean damn Whitney, Lisa sent you flowers and expressed her condolences but I guess it doesn't count if it's done off camera.  Then you can't do your "I'm so sad but I'm going to make the sacrifice and party with you all because Sheri would have wanted me to" shtick in full makeup and party dress.  Puh-leeze!  

[bosawks]

The version of the Utah ideation of insanity is one that I can’t help myself to be entertained by.

[howiveaddict]

4 hours ago, swankie said:

I was going to post the same thing!  I mean damn Whitney, Lisa sent you flowers and expressed her condolences but I guess it doesn't count if it's done off camera.  Then you can't do your "I'm so sad but I'm going to make the sacrifice and party with you all because Sheri would have wanted me to" shtick in full makeup and party dress.  Puh-leeze!  

Maybe Lisa should have sent her a casserole.

[luckyroll3]

14 hours ago, swankie said:

I mean damn Whitney, Lisa sent you flowers and expressed her condolences but I guess it doesn't count if it's done off camera.

All of this! To hear that she's been talking to Lisa for the past 5 days after her friend's death, means that Lisa has already done and said all the things (I'm so sorry, this must be hard, I'm here to listen, etc., etc.). Lisa forgetting about the friend's death because her life is "busy" and the death wasn't about her/didn't impact her, is Lisa being Lisa. As soon as Whitney said, "life is too short....my friend died....blah, blah," you could see an immediate shift in Lisa, almost like she was thinking, "fuck I can't believe I forgot that....let me shut up now!." But you're absolutely right, @swankie, it wasn't on camera, so Whitney didn't get the chance to have all her moments. So distasteful. 

[MaggieG]

So Mary is telling Monica not to call people wrinkly when she called Heather inbred...

Is Heather really questioning Monica's behavior when she defended Jen and her behavior for years?

I will say, Monica was not bad this episode. Her apology to Lisa was probably BS but I enjoyed seeing them get along

[Juneau Gal]

Whitney laying into Lisa for not making every moment about Whitney and her loss, all with a smile on her face and twinkle in her eye. Yes, Lisa is 100% self-centered, but I’m beginning to think Whitney is not just a shit stirrer, but borderline sociopath. Girl ain’t right. 

[ZettaK]

Meredith threatened Lisa with "karma is going to get you" because she didn't support her enough regarding Angie!

What a surprise another HW is narcissistic. Whitney's pain has to be acknowledged on tv, again, and again. She is jealous of Lisa showing attention to Heather!

[hottesthw]

I say this every season…Whitney is a a child and doesn’t belong on a show with adults. She is like the annoying 8yr old you can’t get to shut up and stay in their room while mom and dad entertain friends in the kitchen.

As far as the fight, Whitney confirmed that Lisa had spent 5 days listening and comforting her, so she IS a good friend to her. Lisa’s explanation for not making an issue of it at the event makes total sense. For Whitney to turn things around and blame Lisa for her delusions again is just mean. She’s just jealous that anyone at all still prefers Heather over herself. I don’t blame Lisa for walking off. Whitney owes her a huge apology IMO. 

Edited December 1, 2023 by hottesthw

[pasdetrois]

The group's two most demanding narcissists squaring off is hilarious to me. Lisa won this bout because she summoned her good manners and didn't attack who was grieving.

As I watched Whitney receive the news of her friend's death, I had the icky sense it was being staged for the camera.

Whitney and Justin seem like a couple who are worried about money and who are also sick of each other. The bloom is off this particular rose.

Weirdly, Mary seems more grounded this season - less delusional ranting, some actual common sense, and a fresher appearance. When she stomps around and lashes out, it's no more than other housewives have done.

Maybe stepgranddaddy/husband lives elsewhere and she no longer has the pressures from him of fronting that "church" (I think he controlled her). Maybe she's taking the correct meds.

I'm not excusing her heinous history. And we'll always have "What? You've been married for one year while living in my house?"

Edited December 1, 2023 by pasdetrois

[Marley]

Mary is just a big of bitch as always. She is rude to everyone refuses to interact most times. She insulted Monica’s eating and called Heather inbred and many more rude things. Not seeing how she’s any better than before. She’s disgusting too living off embezzled church money I’m sure.

[Baltimore Betty]

1 hour ago, pasdetrois said:

The bloom is off this particular rose.

I think the bloom was off the Rose's when they did the body painting Twister like sex play on camera. I thought they looked stupid and desperate then and cut to now, it looks like they can barely stand each other but are sticking to the script.

Nothing will make me like Our Mary of the Closet, I don't think she would go out of her way for anyone, not knowing her Son of the Slackers is married and they are living in her house is laughable and not in a Ha-ha sort of way but more in a not wanting to be bothered by doing anything with or for her son.

I will enjoy watching her in scenes where her wig travels around her head but that's about it.

[pasdetrois]

Forgot to say that Heather's look is improving. She's better groomed with softer makeup and quality extensions, less janky face work, and her gray outfit was more elegant than her usual looks.

[ZettaK]

9 hours ago, Baltimore Betty said:

I think the bloom was off the Rose's when they did the body painting Twister like sex play on camera. I thought they looked stupid and desperate then and cut to now, it looks like they can barely stand each other but are sticking to the script.

Nothing will make me like Our Mary of the Closet, I don't think she would go out of her way for anyone, not knowing her Son of the Slackers is married and they are living in her house is laughable and not in a Ha-ha sort of way but more in a not wanting to be bothered by doing anything with or for her son.

I will enjoy watching her in scenes where her wig travels around her head but that's about it.

I agree that after 14-15 years the Roses are not too happy with each other. Justin is older than her, and it shows, and she sees more possibilities out there for her now that she is famous. Wearing matching Gucci t-shirts won't help.

As for Meredith's podcast, it is boring. 

[ChristmasJones]

Just wanted to share I just finished listening to Heather's book from the library. She reads the audio book herself.  I felt like it was a light-hearted, somewhat shallow overview of her life. It was interesting to read it after seeing her on the show for the past few years. What I found odd was near the end, she writes a long section on each of the original housewives. Her story about Whitney was strange and I wasn't quite sure why she shared the details she did about their boudoir photo shoot.  

[SemiCharmedLife]

On 11/30/2023 at 7:29 AM, MaggieG said:

So Mary is telling Monica not to call people wrinkly when she called Heather inbred...

Is Heather really questioning Monica's behavior when she defended Jen and her behavior for years?

I will say, Monica was not bad this episode. Her apology to Lisa was probably BS but I enjoyed seeing them get along

This!!  Heather is being pretty judgy about Monica, whereas with Jen, she was "ride or die."  I wonder if Jen had something on Heather or Heather was afraid of her.  Anyway, I guess it is good if Heather can see more clearly these days, but she is still trying to suck up to Lisa, so that hasn't changed...