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Celebrating 1,000 NCIS-franchise episodes

S05.E12: Burden of Proof

maraleia

By maraleia
in Rizzoli & Isles [V]

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starkresilient

starkresilient

(edited)

Why does Angela needs to interfere everyone's business though? Also it's good that Jack is back and wish we could have seen Maura's mothers too. Seems like a Maura centric episode.

Edited by maraleia
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Bastet

Bastet

(edited)

Although Angela was inappropriate again, at least it was in the small dose of yesteryear.  Way to stereotype every teenage girl as a vapid twit with a narrow set of interests, Ma Rizzoli.  Because as you know from your own daughter and her best-friend, your like-a-daughter, they're universally like that.  Oh, wait ...

 

I figured the daughter would turn out to be the opposite, and she was as precocious as she was predictable, but it beat the alternative.

 

I like the boyfriend and wouldn't mind him sticking around casually. 

 

But, really, Maura?  "My mom doesn't allow me to wear lipstick."  "Well then, here, girl I've just met and have absolutely no say over -- have some lip gloss."

 

Are they implying that crack on the lid of the toilet tank is because the person changing the handle - which attaches to the tank itself and exerts no pressure on the lid (which is removed at the time of installation) - tightened too hard?  That's not how this works.  That's not how any of this works.  Or was there also a crack on the tank my bad eyes didn't see?

 

I'm assuming the brass handle came from the snazzy, old-school hotel.  So who's framing him?  I assumed the wife, until the "he's going to kill himself" scene - if it is her, she's a good actor.  But who else have we met?  I need to stop having this on as background noise to which I pay only sporadic attention.  I'd catch the late airing, but TNT in its infinite wisdom has decided not to provide one for its summer season finale.  Good thing I got home early.

 

Setting side Maura's contrived presence on suicide bridge (which is, apparently, the one place in Boston that has no traffic) to begin with, why did she not spend her time calling for back-up instead of standing around looking worried?  And Jane jumping in after him?  Come on.  Summon the nearest EMT or cop on the ground, and they can help a lot more than someone who has also just done a high dive.

Edited by Bastet
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pennben

pennben

For some strange reason, I have a sudden urge to reread Presumed Innocent by Scott Turow. Hmmm.....

I mock, but this show is so much better under the new regime than when I dumped it before last season. Really like the new woman on the squad.

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Galloway Cave

Galloway Cave

(edited)

For someone who just severely injured her spleen, liver and kidneys, not to mention had a miscarriage, that jump off the bridge had to have crippled Jane (if it didn't outright kill her, which IRL it probably would).

Edited by Galloway Cave
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mythoughtis

mythoughtis

Surely you are supposed to forget about Jane's previous injuries, because that was so two weeks ago.  Maura is being shown this season the way she was being shown in season one, unable to function in daily life, but super-brilliant.  Medical examiners do not go to suicide bridges until after the suicide, and they wouldn't go then unless they were called and the police (multiple) were already there.  Coroners do go to people's homes when a natural death occurs, but that is something different.

 

I liked the Angela routine this week.  maybe it was because Jane was on board with Angela.

 

I really do like the new female on the squad, and Frankie has matured this season.  Korsak is stepping up.... but they have not yet explained where the Lt. actually went.  He would have been front and center for this high-profile case,

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MortysCleaningLady

MortysCleaningLady

Until we found the DA on the bridge ready to jump, I was sure it was the wife.  I even thought the wife had taped him reading stuff in trials and was played it to her voicemail and set him up.  I was a bit surprised that he was actually on the bridge.  Of course, she could still be the murderer.  Very few others have been introduced.  I don't think it was the fellow waitress at the bar.  I don't think it was the prison guard.  It's either an as yet unidentified political rival, the wife, or someone involved in the trial.

 

And seriously writers -- he needed to be on the Tobin Bridge between Boston and Chelsea, not some fake bridge.  (Charles Stuart, a wife and baby murderer who claimed his family was killed by an armed black man when he did it, committed suicide off the Tobin.)

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Whimsy

Whimsy

I really liked this episode. I love Jamie Bamber, so I am hoping he miraculously survives that fall that would obviously kill him IRL and he joins the team next year.

Jane is always doing stupid, crazy things by putting other people's well-being ahead of her own. It's kind of infuriating with real people, but I like it for a TV character. I would feel a lot better about it if they never brought a pregnancy into the storyline. I know she lost the baby, but Jane's longing looks and Maura saying she'll have a kid someday does scare me. Jane won't change, even with a kid, so it will make it harder for me to enjoy crazy stuff if I am worrying about a child's well-being.

I also thought the murder was the wife. The suicide scene didn't necessarily sway me from that prediction just because that's how TV shows and movies work just to have a "twist" later.

I loved the product placement this time. I usually really hate product placement because it's shoe horned in unnaturally, but Frankie holding a Dunkin' Donuts cup is so true to life around here. Yes, he was holding it awkwardly so the full name was always in view, but IRL you would see pretty much EVERYONE with DD cups walking around. I mean, in my middle-size town (that's about 45 mins outside of Boston) there are five Dunkin' Donuts alone, so they are everywhere!

Oh, and Maura. I knew as soon as she started focusing on the pop culture that the daughter would turn out to be a mini-Maura. That was predictable. I also agree that Maura was 100% wrong in giving that girl lip gloss after her mother explicitly said no to make-up. Sure, Maura said she agreed with the mother, but then went ahead and gave her lip gloss anyway. I think at that age not allowing lip gloss is too strict, but that's not the point. Maura isn't her mother and her mother said no. But, Sasha looked really pretty in that scene and the scene afterwards with her boyfriend and it's a silly summer show so I won't get too worked up over it.

Those girls in the park, though. WTH? If my daughters ever acted like that they would've had their phones taken away for a month and had lessons in civility. I mean, they shouldn't be talking to strangers, but to be that flip and rude? Made me want to smack those rolling eyeballs out of their heads.

ETA: We were posting at the same time, MortysCleaningLady, so I didn't read your post until after I hit "submit" but I thought the same thing! I thought the voice mails were pieced together clips from trials or whatever. The messages were so stilted and weird. I guess it was just the DA being "emotional". Also, if he REALLY wanted to kill himself he wouldn't have waited what seemed to me hours to jump.

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shapeshifter

shapeshifter

(edited)

...Those girls in the park, though. WTH? If my [daughters] ever acted like that they would've had their phones taken away for a month and had lessons in civility. I mean, they shouldn't be talking to strangers, but to be that flip and rude? Made me want to smack those rolling eyeballs out of their heads.

Mileage varies, but I would be happy that my daughters got rid of the crazy lady in the park without causing a scene and while giving her some good advice. Too close!

My problem was that Maura, as a keen observer of human behavior and life in general, would have known better than to creep out two tweens in the park.

...Are they implying that crack on the lid of the toilet tank is because the person changing the handle - which attaches to the tank itself and exerts no pressure on the lid (which is removed at the time of installation) - tightened too hard? That's not how this works. That's not how any of this works. Or was there also a crack on the tank my bad eyes didn't see?

Watching on a 5" x 7" device, I had to rely on Jane's comment about the crack, so it didn't bother me, but I love any chance to read someone quoting that esurance commercial when ranting about TV plot devices: "That's not how this works. That's not how any of this works." Hee!

I kept thinking Jamie Bamber had previously played a boyfriend of Maura's, but it turned out it was the boy toy of ME Megan Hunt (Dana Delaney) on Body of Proof. Probably just a coincidence that this episode is titled "Burden of Proof." Yes. I watch too many crime shows.

Edited by shapeshifter
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pennben

pennben

 

"That's not how this works. That's not how any of this works." Hee!

 

I love that commercial!!  I rarely watch commercials, but always stop fastforwarding when that one comes on; just fantastic delivery by all of those actresses.

 

 

I was just coming here to mention the similarity to Presumed Innocent!

 

I didn't realize when I posted that reference, but I just looked it up and the book came out in 1987---27 years ago! I'm going to take my arthritic bones and step away from the computer for a bit. 

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starri

starri

 

I loved the product placement this time.  I usually really hate product placement because it's shoe horned in unnaturally, but Frankie holding a Dunkin' Donuts cup is so true to life around here.  Yes, he was holding it awkwardly so the full name was always in view, but IRL you would see pretty much EVERYONE with DD cups walking around.  I mean, in my middle-size town (that's about 45 mins outside of Boston) there are five Dunkin' Donuts alone, so they are everywhere!

Nothing could have been as hamfisted as the Auto Trader plug that got shoe horned in last (?) week.

 

Although, considering that Outback Steakhouse is apparently a major sponsor, I'm relieved they didn't try to work that in.

 

All things being equal, that was probably the best episode of the season, although it seemed like Jamie Bamber was having a harder time controlling his accent than usual.

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Bastet

Bastet

(edited)

Maura is being shown this season the way she was being shown in season one, unable to function in daily life, but super-brilliant.

 

I hate that this show - which stays away from several other gender stereotypes - engages in the idea that intellectual women don't have a variety of interests just like anyone else, and are in fact so out of touch they don't know the first thing about pop culture.  Because Maura loves science and is knowledgeable about cultural history, she has never even heard of Lady Gaga?

 

Those girls in the park, though. WTH? If my daughters ever acted like that they would've had their phones taken away for a month and had lessons in civility. I mean, they shouldn't be talking to strangers, but to be that flip and rude? Made me want to smack those rolling eyeballs out of their heads.

 

I couldn't stand the way those snots spoke to Maura, either.  She's not hip, so the rules of common decency don't apply?

 

Jane's rant about first-apartment decorating gave me a laugh, since the Starry Night print in my home office does, in fact, date back to my first place. 

Edited by Bastet
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pennben

pennben

(edited)

 

She's not hip, so the rules of common decency don't apply?

 

I don't really blame them, she was too eager and a bit up in their space, albeit politely.  We know her, they don't.  They were basically trying to ignore her, but she kept pushing it, and finally asked for honest input, pushing it even more....she got it. They weren't wrong.

 

If we are going to teach young children and teens to be wary of adults they don't know, we can't be offended when they are wary of adults they don't know.  Even if we know said adult is harmless, they don't.  Sometimes common decency and politeness from a teen to an adult leads to....well, future R&I episodes. 

 

Also, they are teenagers, even if Maura wasn't the stranger that was talking to them; welp, common decency, as I recall was not priority one when I was that age!:)

Edited by pennben
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Bastet

Bastet

I didn't find them wary, I found them rude.  If they ignored her and walked away, I'd take no issue, since she's a stranger.  But once they opted to engage in conversation with her, I think they had an obligation to speak in a respectful tone.

 

I spent the entire conversation imagining what would have happened to me had I spoken to an adult like that at their age.   

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pennben

pennben

(edited)

If I spoke to family or friends that way, I'd have been severely reprimanded.  If I spoke to a stranger that way....well, they should walk away like Maura, as I owe her no obligation other than acknowledging her as they dismissively did initially.  How would they know she's not a creeper?.  They wanted out, she didn't let it go.  Lots of faux pas in that exchange on both sides.  I'm not going to bash a kid for trying to brush off an intrusive stranger.

Edited by pennben
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anstar

anstar

That's not how this works.  That's not how any of this works.

I always hear (and try to say) this phrase exactly the same way as the old lady in the commercial.  I love her!

 

I didn't find them wary, I found them rude.  If they ignored her and walked away, I'd take no issue, since she's a stranger.  But once they opted to engage in conversation with her, I think they had an obligation to speak in a respectful tone.

 

I spent the entire conversation imagining what would have happened to me had I spoken to an adult like that at their age.

I agree. Walking away was acceptable.  Being snotty little brats was not.  I shudder to think what my parents would have done to me had they learned I'd behaved in such a way to an adult. (And they would have found out. They always found out when I messed up. It was freaky.)

 

Considering that Maura's boyfriend is so much like her, I figured there was a pretty good chance that his daughter would be too. Especially when they made such an issue of Maura learning what the 'cool' kids do.

 

I haven't even attempted to figure out whodunnit because for so many of the episodes this season, the guilty party isn't someone we've already seen, just someone who pops up near the end.

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pennben

pennben

(edited)

I guess I saw the scene as the kids tried to shut Maura down initially by going back to their phones.  She pushed it further.  While I'd like my children to be polite, if they are talking to an adult stranger (without adult supervision), I guess I'd rather they be wary and standoffish, rather than polite and acquiesing. There's lots of charming creepers in prison, some are even female creepers.

Edited by pennben
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BooksRule

BooksRule

(edited)

 I didn't realize that they would leave the identity of the killer until they start up with new episodes again.  Is that supposed to mean that there will be something special about this one?  I hope it won't be a story arc that'll take up most of the season.  I like it when they don't drag out cases.

 

No real surprises in this one.  I knew that the kid would be a lot like Maura (although it was definitely not Maura's place to allow the girl to wear even a little makeup when her mother had said no), so no surprise.  From the promos, I knew that Jane would end up in the water somehow and I was definitely not wondering whether or not she will survive (it is the Rizzoli-with-sometimes-Isles show, after all). 

 

I was interested in the way that Korsak was looking at the bar/grill and making notes.  I'm assuming that he's going to buy it and turn it into a sports bar or something?  Maybe his 'life coach' (or whatever she's called) has advised him to start thinking about other options after retirement or something? 

Edited by BooksRule
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pennben

pennben

(edited)

 

I didn't realize that they would leave the identity of the killer until they start up with new episodes again.  Is that supposed to mean that there will be something special about this one?

 

Well, Jane is in peril, she might DIE!  And then I guess it will be just "Isles"!  That's why cliffhangers are silly to me.....of course Jane is going to live.  A cliffhanger would have been to let us find out the guy was maybe set up, let us see the wife distraught, let us see them rushing to the bridge debating whether they were right or wrong.  Did Jane's obvious face lead to an innocent guy trying to kill himself?  Can they get to him in time?  Did his wife do it?  Does she have him drugged in the attic so she can make it look like a suicide attempt by him while she gets away with murder?  Don't try to tell me it is more dramatic whether Jane lives or dies....because of course she lives. 

Edited by pennben
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craziness

craziness

I'm so glad they announced early in the season that Maura would have a boyfriend this season, because if I watched 4 of his 5 scenes this season (not counting the kimono scene at the beginning of this episode), I would really be wondering "why does that guy look familiar? Has he been on the show before?"

Also, he really should have introduced his daughter and Maura. Not left the daughter to wander around the police station and morgue looking for her and having to introduce herself. What if Maura had been at a crime scene, how long would that girl have wandered?

And, I was also wondering about Korsak's interest in the bar. I thought at the beginning of the season, when the Robber went more locovor/organic, that Maura had invested in it. If Korsak buys it, maybe it will be more "toga party themed" as homage to his role in Animal House. He'd probably hire Angela to run the place.

And I still think the husband did it.

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Latverian Diplomat

Latverian Diplomat

(edited)

For some strange reason, I have a sudden urge to reread Presumed Innocent by Scott Turow. Hmmm.....

 

 

I was just coming here to mention the similarity to Presumed Innocent!

Does the fact that the episode title is the same as the title of the kind-of-a sequel novel to Presumed Innocent count as "Hanging a Lampshade on it"?

 

Some of the tech stuff this week was into CSI computers-are-magic(!) territory. Pulling easily identifiable background sounds from a recorded cell phone message, reading a smart phone screen over someone's shoulder by "enhancing" wide angle surveillance footage. Do not want.

 

Was Jamie Bamber's performance supposed to read as convincingly sincere? Because I did not get that at all. When Jane and Korsak came out of the first interview, I expected them to say, yep, he did it, but instead they were buying it. I'm no expert on interrogation, so maybe it's just me? 

Edited by Latverian Diplomat
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LisaM

LisaM

Until I saw him on the bridge, I thought that Jamie Bamber's character killed the girl and set up the phone messages in order to disappear. However, faking suicide from a bridge is a bit much so I'm discounting that theory. I then thought that the wife had found out about the affair and set him up -- which is still my favorite theory -- but she really did look convincingly frantic at the end.

 

I really liked the meeting with Maura and the girl. I also like the new squad room addition but I miss seeing Susie.

 

Jane jumping off of the bridge to save him was ridiculous.

 

I agree that Korsak is going to buy the bar - perhaps his life coach recommended it as a way to prepare for retirement?

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zoey1996

zoey1996

I really loved the scene about the phone bling (hello kitty threw up on my little pony or something like that), and then Nina turns over her sparkly phone.  Jane really steps in it, trying to spin an explanation that's not insulting to Nina! 

Angela's scene with Jane and Maura was annoying, but it was mercifully short.

And I agree.  Of course Jane lives!  The will-he-jump and who-done-it is enough of a cliffhanger.

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l star

l star

(edited)

Everything about Jane and Angela's part of the daughter storyline annoyed me. Jane was completely on the same page as Angela, she just let Angela take the lead. They both just assumed that if Maura acted like Maura the girl would hate her. Maura may be a little a different compared to the Rizzolis but it's not like she's so utterly socially incompetent that she can't function in the world without their guidance. I just wanted to yell at them both. Moving on to Maura, I felt for her. She and Jack had obviously talked about Allie and then Maura meeting her to the point that she wasn't even overly nervous. And their meeting showed that she shouldn't have been. Maura and Jack have been dating for a while now. Did Angela and Jane really think that a guy who has been dating Maura for more than a week would let her meet his daughter and not warn her if there was going to be a massive personality clash? This storyline annoyed me so much.

 

I didn't have a problem with the behavior of the girls in the park. Maura was being a serious creeper. My parents' expectations for me were always to be polite and gracious when dealing with adults. Random women who got up in my space in a public park while being super pushy does not qualify. Those are the adults you tell to back way off and run from. I think Maura realized she was being weird but I think she realized way too late how incredibly off-putting and inappropriate she was being.

 

I didn't have a problem with Maura giving Allie lip gloss. I think it was a move born out of over eagerness rather than overstepping. If she keeps doing it, then I will think she is overstepping and needs to be pushed back but not yet. Though considering how little Maura/Jack and just Maura in general we've gotten this season, we will probably never see Allie again. I've really liked what little we've seen of Jack and Allie though.

 

I'm trying to remember the specifics of the case this ep and I'm coming up a bit blank. It pretty much all hinged on the changing tides of Jane's gut, right? I'm going with a juror from the first case for the real killer. It's always a juror.

 

I really loved the scene about the phone bling (hello kitty threw up on my little pony or something like that), and then Nina turns over her sparkly phone.  Jane really steps in it, trying to spin an explanation that's not insulting to Nina!

 

I thought this scene was really cute, mainly because of the new detective's reaction. She just let her keep digging that hole. I kept waiting for Jane to say something like 'maybe all bling-ed phones aren't actually ridiculous looking. Different strokes' but instead it kept going until it got beyond incredibly awkward. Everyone being more amused than appalled saved it for me.

Edited by l star
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Bastet

Bastet

Except it will become the watering hole for the entire squad, and we'll have to listen to Angela lecture everyone on how they should live their lives.  And be expected to find such meddling cute.

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pennben

pennben

 

Does the fact that the episode title is the same as the title of the kind-of-a sequel novel to Presumed Innocent count as "Hanging a Lampshade on it"?

 

Oh, wow.  I didn't think of that at all.  I just thought their title was a play on Presumed Innocent. Nice catch!

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missbonnie

missbonnie

Coincidentally enough I recently got a letter that I am in the damn jury pool until the end of December. Oh YAY!..... Not. I have already had a week of my life stolen by being on another jury in a different county of my state 15 years ago, shoot me now. I also clicked on Turow's novel so apparently some of us are close in age. Oh how I wish that it had been Angela who jumped off the bridge, but no such luck. I was rather surprised that we got an actual cliffhanger but it's not really a cliffhanger when know that Jane's going to survive. I figured that it was a frame job from the beginning and thought it was the wife, but it doesn't appear so. Now I have no idea who it was and I had it in my head that they were coming back in November. February is a long way down the road.

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mbutterfly

mbutterfly

I just watched Burden of Proof this morning. It was my favorite R & I in a long time -- loved everything about it, don't care about improbables on the COTW, loved it. Please don't let us down next week O Great Showrunner. 

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Aethera

Aethera

I actually said "who is Jack" out loud, and then realized.  Let's have more of him please.

 

Angela's part was even sillier in this than last week, if that was possible.  I recall Statler and Waldorf though.  "It was dumb! It was obvious! It was...short. ...I loved it!"

 

Also, Maura loves fashion.  I do not believe she would not know about Lady Gaga.

 

This episode was mostly very predictable, but I did assume the wife had taped him saying things and then faked the suicide, because the first play-through of the tape was so stilted. Also because I recognize her as a That Girl.  I too was surprised he was on the bridge.  What bugged me most was, why did Jane have to be so emotional on that suicide thing?  It felt so awkward and overly Jane-Centric.  Even though once he fell we all knew she was going in, I don't see why she had to talk to him like he was her best friend.  They were overly connected in the elevator too.  Don't date the cheater, Jane.

 

(I need to take a moment aside here and note that the TNT site was playing KMart ads for the breaks today, and amazingly, they have a CHRISTMAS ad running already.  It's cleverly handled, and I know it's because of layaway, but sheesh.  They have non-Christmas-themed layaway commercials already.  Are people really too dumb to realize that when they are emphasizing layaway in September, it's about Christmas?  Earliest...Christmas Ad...Ever.)

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Sabs

Sabs

I

(I need to take a moment aside here and note that the TNT site was playing KMart ads for the breaks today, and amazingly, they have a CHRISTMAS ad running already.  It's cleverly handled, and I know it's because of layaway, but sheesh.  They have non-Christmas-themed layaway commercials already.  Are people really too dumb to realize that when they are emphasizing layaway in September, it's about Christmas?  Earliest...Christmas Ad...Ever.)

 

Yes.  People are that stupid.

 

Now, about the episode... I enjoyed it, but the "cliffhanger" was SO stupid, IMO.  Because somehow they are both going to surivive a dive off a suicide bridge.  If it is that easy to survive, shouldn't be called the failed suicide bridge?

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AV8n

AV8n

If it was the wife, why copycat the other case that he prosecuted? (Sort of rhetorical question)

To draw attention to him as a suspect.  If it was the wife, we will probably be told that she didn't just want to kill the mistress - she wanted her husband to suffer.  So it's not enough to kill Danielle, lest it be pinned on someone else.  She'd have to make it look like her husband did it.

In the opening scene, I thought the build of the killer looked more feminine, so I guess I have a built-in bias that it was a woman.  In police procedurals like Rizzoli and Isles (soon to be Isles, since we all know Jane plunged to her death), the killer is almost always shown earlier in the episode.  So that gives us the coworker, the DA's wife and Maura's future stepdaughter.  Come to think of it, that last one would be an interesting twist!

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FavFable

FavFable

It would have been better if Maura was the one who jumped off. Really, another Jane heroism? How tiresome. Season 5 will be remembered as the Jane Rizzoli show!

Why would Maura be the focus of the Jane and Angela show? She isn't even a Rizzoli...

 

I want to ask the show runner when the Isles part of Rizzoli & Isles would get a major storyline.

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St. Claire

St. Claire

In police procedurals like Rizzoli and Isles (soon to be Isles, since we all know Jane plunged to her death)...

 

No, it will still be Rizzoli and Isles, just with extra Angela and Frankie, and maybe bringing Tommy back! (Thus driving viewership into the ground...)

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