S07.E03: Death Be Not Proud

[Athena]

Quote

Jamie discovers Arch Bug has been keeping a dangerous secret. In the 20th century, Roger and Brianna find a link to Jamie and Claire.

Reminder: This is the No Book Talk topic. No discussion of the books is allowed including saying "in the books..." Posts may be removed without warning.

[Hanahope]

I have not read the books, but i feel like they must have accelerated through this story in this first 10 minutes of the episode.  it seemed like the Bug's/Jacobite gold story was wow, quick, and covered a larger amount of plot than these few minutes of exposition.  i wonder if there were more information provided in the books that was left out here, as i didn't quite understand why Jamie was so upset about the Bugs stealing a portion of the gold when others have.  i had to stop and think about it all, remember past episodes/story before continuing with the show.  and it seems like we are not done with Mr. Bug, or he is not done with the Fraziers.

So did the spaniard go across the country from Los Angeles to NC?  i guess that's the implication.  i wonder if there's more to that story, or if it was just a way for Jem to remember finding the cave.  And I guess Bree and Roger have found a "need" for the gold. renovations aren't cheap.  I did find it clever for Jamie/ian to hide some of the gold in bullets.  

So yeah, complete 'time passage' for Bree, Roger and Mandy.  Nope, do not explain how they got out of NC, how they got Mandy's surgery, just accept and move on (again, probably covered 100s of book pages).   Interesting that there is no discussion (yet at least) about going back to the 1700s.  True, kindof scary to think about going back into the middle of a war, and yeah, hard to give up that sweet indoor plumbing and electricity.

One wonders how much information Claire gave to Lizzie  & co.  i guess its no surprise to anyone war is coming, but what, if anything, does she let slip?  just a blanket 'stay out of it'?  hmmmm

So do Claire, Jaime and Ian actually get back to Scotland or will they be stuck in the revolutionary war?  at least we know there are quite a lot of letters in the chest, so a lot of stuff still to happen.  since the chest was delivered in Scotland, i'm going to guess they did make it back to that area.  

 

 

Edited July 2, 2023 by Hanahope

[DoctorAtomic]

Always important to show the cat in the previouslies. I'm not sure why they couldn't have taken him on the trip. Just make a crate. 

We had such a lively discussion about how Roger and Bree and the kids would get to Joe, and literally nothing. I will, however, pat myself on the back about remarking that I would like Claire and Jamie to be able to communicate to them from the past. So there's that. 

I genuinely felt bad when Jamie looked on in defeat when the house burned. He did build it. But he got right back up and is ready to build another house. 

Nothing gets by Young Ian! re: William And he should have zero guilt for Bug. And I would have slit his throat myself for threatening the dog. I don't really care about the Bug plot. I think the show just needed this much of the plot as a set up for the gold stash for the house. I actually hope nothing else comes of it. You stole gold, ok, fine, buried it and hid it for whatever, then your wife took a shot at Jamie and got got. 

I wonder if the discussion about 'who better to guard than a ghost?' was the callback/foreshadowing to Claire seeing Ghost!Jamie before her first trip through the stones. That he's guarding her to make sure she goes through. It's interesting that Jamie is having future dreams regularly too since he's literally having visions of telephones. He got Fiona right too. Claire's totally casual about it. "Oh it's a telephone! You can call people!" Really, you don't think it's remotely interesting that someone in 1776 had a dream and described a telephone perfectly? Doesn't warrant any follow up questions about what else he might have dreamt? 

I'm all excited they were going to get involved in the Revolution, and they're buggering off to Scotland. Not that I don't like Scotland, and who doesn't love Jenny?; she's going to go berserk when she sees them, but the plot strikes me as kind of a cop out. I don't like that Young Ian didn't have a say in what he wanted to do either. 

I would guess with Bree in Scotland that they'll read a letter before they go back to Boston and realize Jamie and Claire are there and head back for a visit. We're certainly going to see the gold again. 

I'm disappointed in the direction, but I did mostly enjoy the episode. 

10 hours ago, Hanahope said:

And I guess Bree and Roger have found a "need" for the gold. renovations aren't cheap. 

They're going to be the original Escape to the Chateau!

10 hours ago, Hanahope said:

since the chest was delivered in Scotland, i'm going to guess they did make it back to that area.  

I'm thinking even more now that Roger and Bree pop back for an update, so Jamie knows where to send the chest. There has to be some two way communication at some point. Although I think it's going to be a while. I think the Revolution will delay them in Wilmington. 

Roger and Bree seemed resigned to have to stay in 1976. I don't quite get why. With the letters, they know where to find Claire, and they both seemed to want to go back. I suppose maybe the baby's health may preclude it, but there could have been some line of dialogue. They've been in 1976 (or whatever 1970s) long enough to grow bangs and have different haircuts. 

[Glade]

I'm glad to see Fiona again!  That opening flashback to Adso made me really nervous; when Jaimie was staring at the windows during the fire, I thought for a second he saw the kitty pawing at one of them trying to get out... I thought Jaimie's hair looked better than usual, softer, redder, though I didn't care for Bri's future bangs.  If it makes them feel better to think that they did save J/C instead of stumbling through an infinite time loop, I'm happy for them.   However I strongly disapprove of Claire trying to hand-wash the carcinogenic smoke out of clothes; just toss them!

I loved that moment Ian and Jamie shared about Willie.  I spent more than half of that scene between Jamie and Mr. Bug struggling to understand who he was supposed to be.  It's sad that Ian's arrow struck the wrong person this time.  But I don't think Arch will be around long enough to haunt Ian...

Fergus, Marsali, and their eighteen kids should be included on this trip to Scotland; Fergus grew up at Lallybroch, and Marsali can visit with her all grown up sister!  I'll be disappointed if they don't join...  I wondered for a moment if the Spaniard was another time traveler, but apparently not.  From my counting, 3 of the 5 Native American travellers are still at large somewhere though?

Brianna and Roger using the Jacobite gold to buy/restore Lallybroch sounds promising, though!

[Moxie Cat]

12 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

And I would have slit his throat myself for threatening the dog.

I was really worried that Ian's honor and guilt would lead into a "Game of Thrones" situation. Thank goodness that didn't happen. 

Plus, this episode already had me worried enough about the cat! Darn those recaps!

[iMonrey]

13 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

It's interesting that Jamie is having future dreams regularly too since he's literally having visions of telephones. He got Fiona right too. Claire's totally casual about it. "Oh it's a telephone! You can call people!" Really, you don't think it's remotely interesting that someone in 1776 had a dream and described a telephone perfectly? Doesn't warrant any follow up questions about what else he might have dreamt? 

Yeah, this. Why is Jamie having dreams about Brianna and Roger in the future? Does this mean he has some sort of psychic link to Brianna that even works through time? That seems odd, since he's not a traveler. And why isn't Claire more astonished by this?

It doesn't seem like Ian would want to go back to Scotland. He pretty much identifies as Mohawk now. If he seems out of place at the Ridge, it will be even more so in Scotland. I realize his parents are there but otherwise I can't think of anything that's there for him. Maybe this is just meant to be a visit and he plans to return to the Ridge with Jamie and Claire?

Also, Claire? What makes you think that cat can find its way back home? It's clearly been lost in the woods since the fire.

[DoctorAtomic]

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

He pretty much identifies as Mohawk now.

He has since he returned to the Ridge. But, again, no discussion. They're plowing through plot and it's only been three episodes. Of course, the rest of the season probably is in Wilmington and they won't get to Scotland until next year. 

I kind of wanted Jamie to be part of a winning war and finally beat the Brits for literally slaughtering his way of life. 

The fact that Jamie has had 2 future dreams better pay off. 

 

[Cosmocrush]

I am confused about the Jacobite gold.  I feel like I missed and / or forgot something about that.  Why did Jamie think he was entitled to it more than the Bugs?  Jamie kicked them off the Ridge, killed the wife AND took the gold.  Seems out of character to me… can someone explain this for me?

[ch1]

59 minutes ago, Cosmocrush said:

I am confused about the Jacobite gold.  I feel like I missed and / or forgot something about that.  Why did Jamie think he was entitled to it more than the Bugs?  Jamie kicked them off the Ridge, killed the wife AND took the gold.  Seems out of character to me… can someone explain this for me?

I have the same question.   

[cardigirl]

1 hour ago, Cosmocrush said:

I am confused about the Jacobite gold.  I feel like I missed and / or forgot something about that.  Why did Jamie think he was entitled to it more than the Bugs?  Jamie kicked them off the Ridge, killed the wife AND took the gold.  Seems out of character to me… can someone explain this for me?

I think Jamie was concerned about his uncle's part in stealing the gold.  It sounded to me like Aunt Jocasta and her first husband built a nice life for themselves with the stolen gold, which had cost them their daughter's life. The gold was originally supposed to help the Jacobite cause, which failed. Jamie is upset by the betrayal of the three men who stole it. The Bugs swore an oath of loyalty to Jamie when they came to the ridge, so hiding the gold doesn't seem very loyal. He gave Arch Bug the one gold bar and asked them to leave, because he could no longer trust them. 

I'm interested in the poor Spanish soldier who died in the cave. I doubt he came from Los Angeles, but from Spanish soldiers who landed in South Caroline in 1564-68.  Jamie was funny recounting how he and Jem found the cave, and how he was scared but Jem was not. LOL> 

[BitterApple]

2 hours ago, Cosmocrush said:

I am confused about the Jacobite gold.  I feel like I missed and / or forgot something about that.  Why did Jamie think he was entitled to it more than the Bugs?  Jamie kicked them off the Ridge, killed the wife AND took the gold.  Seems out of character to me… can someone explain this for me?

I'm completely confused as well. It's not like Jocasta is any more entitled to it than the Bugs. Stolen is stolen, and might I add, she used her share to build a slave plantation. The Bugs have been doing the Fraser's shit work for years. Would it have killed Jamie to write this one off and let them have a nice retirement? Maybe this is one of those instances where it's much better explained in the books. Like others said, they're barreling through plot so fast, I feel like we're missing a lot of information. 

With regards to Ian, that felt off as well. He's not a teenager anymore and he hasn't been home in years. That's certainly a decision he can make for himself. Given how sympathetic Ian is to the Mohawk and other Natives, I'm surprised he'd so casually peace out with a major war coming. He seems like the type who'd stay and fight.

I love how we all predicted the show would just handwave Roger and Bree's return. I'm kind of pissed we didn't get to see Joe. I always liked his character.

 

Edited July 1, 2023 by BitterApple

[DoctorAtomic]

I agree that Young Ian's situation should have been delved into more. I'm unspoiled, but I'm assuming they're stuck in Wilmington for a while, so maybe it will come up. 

I also agree he's more Mohawk than Scot at this point. However, I will throw the show a bone. Bree basically told him the fate of Native Americans. For one, there's nothing he can really do. The other, many tribes fought for the Brits, and he knows who wins the war. 

Taking all that from Jamie's pov, why have him possibly die for nothing? 

Now, there's plenty of good they all might have been able to do outside just fighting. 

 

[Glade]

26 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

The Bugs have been doing the Fraser's shit work for years. Would it have killed Jamie to write this one off and let them have a nice retirement?

Well, they could have used the gold to retire years ago instead of working for J&C and burying it beneath their house; why didn't they?  Jaime believes the gold is cursed, and it is politically and emotionally loaded and traumatic for him, so I guess he and Arch are both not exactly rational about it. 

[nara]

7 hours ago, Cosmocrush said:

I am confused about the Jacobite gold.  I feel like I missed and / or forgot something about that.  Why did Jamie think he was entitled to it more than the Bugs?  Jamie kicked them off the Ridge, killed the wife AND took the gold.  Seems out of character to me… can someone explain this for me?

This really made me mad. I thought Jamie would do something unselfish with it, but him keeping it was not better than the Bugs doing so

[Cosmocrush]

44 minutes ago, nara said:

This really made me mad. I thought Jamie would do something unselfish with it, but him keeping it was not better than the Bugs doing so

Exactly.  Afterwards Jamie even said something like, “Why did I not let her take it?”  And yet he still kept it.

[Noneofyourbusiness]

19 hours ago, Glade said:

That opening flashback to Adso made me really nervous; when Jaimie was staring at the windows during the fire, I thought for a second he saw the kitty pawing at one of them trying to get out...

12 hours ago, Moxie Cat said:

Plus, this episode already had me worried enough about the cat! Darn those recaps!

After seeing Adso in the preview when I took a look last night before my and family I watched it today, I fast forwarded to make sure he was going to be okay. My Mom needs to be warned if any animals are going to be hurt in a show.

11 hours ago, iMonrey said:

And why isn't Claire more astonished by this?

I don't think she should be astonished by anything at this point.

[ww92]

I guess the writers were stumped as to the logistics of where Bree and Roger would get money, reestablish their identities, etc. just like we were so they said forget it, we'll just ignore it, and fast forwarded a few years.

[Noneofyourbusiness]

29 minutes ago, ww92 said:

I guess the writers were stumped as to the logistics of where Bree and Roger would get money, reestablish their identities, etc. just like we were so they said forget it, we'll just ignore it, and fast forwarded a few years.

It's my recollection of that thread that people pointed out it would be quite easy.

[DoctorAtomic]

Well, that part of their plot probably isn't in the books either. I'm not sure we needed to see the whole thing, but I think one or two scenes would have been ok. They're in Scotland now. It's not even like we got to see that decision. 

[greekmom]

One thing I don't get is why Roger, Brianna and family went back to Scotland and didn't stay in the US.  I would love to know what happened to Frasier's Ridge in the 70s.

I don't think the Spaniard is from Spain but someone from the future.

 

[BitterApple]

1 hour ago, greekmom said:

One thing I don't get is why Roger, Brianna and family went back to Scotland and didn't stay in the US.  I would love to know what happened to Frasier's Ridge in the 70s.

I don't think the Spaniard is from Spain but someone from the future.

 

I'm guessing they went to Boston first, got Amanda's surgery done, straightened out their affairs and maybe went to Scotland for an extended visit? Roger probably had bank accounts and other stuff he wanted to access. Also, that box with the letters. If they hatched some sort of plan with Claire and Jamie to communicate before they left, then they'd know they had to go to Scotland to retrieve it. 

[Cosmocrush]

28 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

I'm guessing they went to Boston first, got Amanda's surgery done, straightened out their affairs and maybe went to Scotland for an extended visit? Roger probably had bank accounts and other stuff he wanted to access. Also, that box with the letters. If they hatched some sort of plan with Claire and Jamie to communicate before they left, then they'd know they had to go to Scotland to retrieve it. 

Or, you know, the box could be shipped.😉

The surgery would of course be in Boston but I think the only house they have is Rogers’ house.  Plus, like you posted, bank accounts as well as Fiona to take care of everything.

1 hour ago, greekmom said:

I don't think the Spaniard is from Spain but someone from the future.

Interesting.  Why may I ask?

[Clawdette]

I just read that Chris Larkin, who plays Richard Brown, is the son of Maggie Smith.  I knew that Toby Stephens (Black Sails) was her son but Chris was a surprise.

[Lily H]

On 6/30/2023 at 10:06 PM, DoctorAtomic said:

And I would have slit his throat myself for threatening the dog.

I agree wholeheartedly.

[Lily H]

On 7/1/2023 at 11:36 PM, Noneofyourbusiness said:

My Mom needs to be warned if any animals are going to be hurt in a show.

Are you familiar with the website DoesTheDogDie ?  It can be really helpful to warn about animals being hurt or killed.

[Noneofyourbusiness]

10 hours ago, greekmom said:

One thing I don't get is why Roger, Brianna and family went back to Scotland and didn't stay in the US.  I would love to know what happened to Frasier's Ridge in the 70s.

They're living in Boston (at least until they buy Lallybroch, apparently). Roger said to Brianna that they'd ration out the remaining letters when they got back to Boston. They must have only gone to Scotland to open the box after Fiona contacted them.

5 hours ago, Lily H said:

Are you familiar with the website DoesTheDogDie ?  It can be really helpful to warn about animals being hurt or killed.

Thank you.

9 hours ago, Clawdette said:

I just read that Chris Larkin, who plays Richard Brown, is the son of Maggie Smith.  I knew that Toby Stephens (Black Sails) was her son but Chris was a surprise.

Yes, Larkin was in Black Sails as Captain Berringer, I remember reading about the family reunion at the time.

[DoctorAtomic]

10 hours ago, BitterApple said:

If they hatched some sort of plan with Claire and Jamie to communicate before they left, then they'd know they had to go to Scotland to retrieve it. 

I think it's the reverse. Bree and Roger are buying Lollybroch, and I will guess they are going to read a letter that Jamie and Claire are there too, so they'll go back for a visit to fill them in and arrange the delivery of the letters. 

 

[iMonrey]

So how much do we think the ruins of Lollybroch cost? And how much for updates and repairs? Roger and Bree are gonna need that gold.

[Ziggy]

On 7/1/2023 at 2:33 PM, BitterApple said:

The Bugs have been doing the Fraser's shit work for years. Would it have killed Jamie to write this one off and let them have a nice retirement?

Jamie even said that after Mrs. Bug died.  "Why did I not let her take it?  What did it matter?"  I think in the heat of the moment, Jamie was thinking that they were steeling from his aunt.  Later, he thought more and realized that what his aunt had was stolen and she (and Jamie) had no more claim to it than the Bugs.  Initially, though, Jamie simply felt betrayed.

[Ziggy]

On 7/2/2023 at 9:07 AM, ww92 said:

I guess the writers were stumped as to the logistics of where Bree and Roger would get money, reestablish their identities, etc. just like we were so they said forget it, we'll just ignore it, and fast forwarded a few years.

 

On 7/2/2023 at 9:37 AM, Noneofyourbusiness said:

It's my recollection of that thread that people pointed out it would be quite easy.

 

I hadn't thought if it like that :-)

But I kind of agree.  I do appreciate when we see what happens, but now that you mention it, watching them make there way to a pay phone, call Joe, acquire money, travel to Boston, etc. does sound a little boring and unnecessary.  I would probably be thinking, get on with it already!

[Lola82]

1 hour ago, Ziggy said:

 

 

I hadn't thought if it like that :-)

But I kind of agree.  I do appreciate when we see what happens, but now that you mention it, watching them make there way to a pay phone, call Joe, acquire money, travel to Boston, etc. does sound a little boring and unnecessary.  I would probably be thinking, get on with it already!

I wouldn’t want a whole episode of this but it would have been nice to see them enjoying the ease of electricity or driving or the casual clothes again. Or at least see Jemmy’s reaction to the modern world. He’s never seen any of it!

[taanja]

On 7/1/2023 at 12:20 PM, Cosmocrush said:

I am confused about the Jacobite gold.  I feel like I missed and / or forgot something about that.  Why did Jamie think he was entitled to it more than the Bugs?  Jamie kicked them off the Ridge, killed the wife AND took the gold.  Seems out of character to me… can someone explain this for me?

I didn't get any of that.

The Bugs (that is their name??) have barely been peripheral characters. They have barely spoken any lines (that I can remember) so the whole situation seems -- odd. And now we have to worry about that Mr. Bug coming back and getting some sort of revenge on Ian? Huh?

Why can't Jaime travel to the future? because ... reasons ...??? He can dream about it -- like perfectly correct in all the details but alas... he can't actually/physically travel? I will keep coming back to this because it doesn't make any sense.!!!!!

Seems like the author can somehow write in a magic stone that Jaime could travel through (maybe for just one day? ) I would watch the shit out of that! 

So Roger, Bree and the kids just poof! back to the future with no problems - no questions - no issues at all.

How old are Jaime and Claire supposed to be? Because the battle of Culloden was like 30 yeas in the past (1745). They have to be at least in their 60's by now. Which in 1775 was OLD! The characters Claire and Jaime should look more like the Bugs - who look to be in their 60's.

[BitterApple]

4 hours ago, iMonrey said:

So how much do we think the ruins of Lollybroch cost? And how much for updates and repairs? Roger and Bree are gonna need that gold.

I imagine the ruins may not be that much but the renovation would cost an absolute fortune. Electric, HVAC, plumbing, septic, structural repairs, inspections, etc. Even if Brianna sold the Boston house, it probably wouldn't be enough. 

[DoctorAtomic]

14 minutes ago, taanja said:

How old are Jaime and Claire supposed to be? Because the battle of Culloden was like 30 yeas in the past (1745). They have to be at least in their 60's by now. Which in 1775 was OLD! The characters Claire and Jaime should look more like the Bugs - who look to be in their 60's.

I would guess Jamie and Claire are in late 50s or 60. They both have grey hair and Jamie needs glasses. This doesn't bother me that much. I can take the 'fair cheat' that Claire lived a healthier life returning for her schooling. Jamie got beat up from the war and prison, but afterwards didn't get involved any more as a soldier and just owned the printing company. City life isn't that taxing. 

Some people back then lived long. Franklin was way way old. Plus, he's got Claire with him. There could have been times he might have gotten sick, but she invented antibiotics. 

[taanja]

4 hours ago, iMonrey said:

So how much do we think the ruins of Lollybroch cost? And how much for updates and repairs? Roger and Bree are gonna need that gold.

How are they going to explain that gold?

Seems to me Scotland and/or the Scottish or English government would lay claim.

Why do we think that is was Joe (a character we met several season ago) that was going to not only operate on the baby but have money and bank accounts and documents for Roger and family?

All we saw before Bree and Roger left The Ridge was Claire saying she "might know someone" who can operate on the baby's heart. I don't remember this Joe guy ever mentioned. But whoa! He seems the miracle worker indeed! 

Seems like we have to take a lot for granted or just 'assume' things happen in the book that they will NOT explain on the show.

[DoctorAtomic]

39 minutes ago, taanja said:

Why do we think that is was Joe (a character we met several season ago) that was going to not only operate on the baby but have money and bank accounts and documents for Roger and family?

I think they said here in the episode thread that Claire made some comment to Bree about getting those affairs in order when she was making the supersuit to go back to find Jamie at the printing business. It's a reasonable inference. Claire could have put relevant documents in a safe deposit box and given him the key. 

However, I don't know why she just didn't say last episode, 'Get in touch with Joe and let him know the situation'. 

[Ava]

How old are Jamie and Claire at this point?  OOh, I love math! Claire was 27 when she went back to 1743 from 1945. Jamie was 5 years younger, so was 22. This is now 1776 and 33 years have passed, so Claire is now 60 years old and Jamie is 55.

Edited July 3, 2023 by Ava

[Ziggy]

3 hours ago, taanja said:

Why can't Jaime travel to the future?

He doesn’t have the time traveling gene.

[Ziggy]

2 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

However, I don't know why she just didn't say last episode, 'Get in touch with Joe and let him know the situation'. 

I was really surprised Claire didn’t say something about Joe. It would have been a nice way to remind the audience about Joe, and it would have been completely normal for Claire and Bree to share a memory about Joe or the family.

[Noneofyourbusiness]

4 hours ago, taanja said:

How old are Jaime and Claire supposed to be? Because the battle of Culloden was like 30 yeas in the past (1745). They have to be at least in their 60's by now. Which in 1775 was OLD! The characters Claire and Jaime should look more like the Bugs - who look to be in their 60's.

Ava beat me to it.

4 hours ago, taanja said:

Why do we think that is was Joe (a character we met several season ago) that was going to not only operate on the baby but have money and bank accounts and documents for Roger and family?

Because he's the only close doctor friend of Claire's we've seen.

[mythoughtis]

On 6/30/2023 at 9:06 PM, DoctorAtomic said:

I'm thinking even more now that Roger and Bree pop back for an update, so Jamie knows where to send the chest. There has to be some two way communication at some point.

Jamie’s dream told them where to send the chest. Claire knows who Fiona is and where she lives in the 1970s.   
 

Jamie and Ian went hunting for some of that gold themselves - that’s how Ian got kidnapped and hauled off to the Caribbean.   Which preceded them getting shipwrecked in North Carolina.  Jamie  had plans to use the gold for himself.  So his being high and mighty about people stealing it seems a little hypocritical. 

Edited July 4, 2023 by mythoughtis

[Cdh20]

7 hours ago, taanja said:

How are they going to explain that gold?

Seems to me Scotland and/or the Scottish or English government would lay claim.

Why do we think that is was Joe (a character we met several season ago) that was going to not only operate on the baby but have money and bank accounts and documents for Roger and family.

All we saw before Bree and Roger left The Ridge was Claire saying she "might know someone" who can operate on the baby's heart. I don't remember this Joe guy ever mentioned. But whoa! He seems the miracle worker indeed! 

Seems like we have to take a lot for granted or just 'assume' things happen in the book that they will NOT explain on the show.

We all met Joe in the show in season 3, he was Claire’s best friend, & fellow doctor! It has been awhile since season 3 though, so I am sure a lot of people would have preferred a better explanation. 

6 hours ago, Ava said:

How old are Jamie and Claire at this point?  OOh, I love math! Claire was 27 when she went back to 1743 from 1945. Jamie was 5 years younger, so was 22. This is now 1776 and 33 years have passed, so Claire is now 60 years old and Jamie is 55.

Thanks, I was just about to answer this but kept on scrolling, every once in awhile they give us a clue. Jamie also turned 50 in episode 507.

[iMonrey]

Quote

How old are Jaime and Claire supposed to be? Because the battle of Culloden was like 30 yeas in the past (1745). They have to be at least in their 60's by now. Which in 1775 was OLD! The characters Claire and Jaime should look more like the Bugs - who look to be in their 60's.

It's a common misconception that it was rare for people to live longer back in the day. The average life span was lower but that's because infant mortality was so high. The key word there is "average." When 50% of babies die in infancy, that average number plummets. Assuming you survived childhood you could live a long life. People lived to be in their 80s and 90s even in the biblical age. And at no time was 30 or 40 considered over the hill.

20 hours ago, taanja said:

So Roger, Bree and the kids just poof! back to the future with no problems - no questions - no issues at all.

This is the part of the show that confounds me. I don't know why everyone assumes the stones will just automatically take them to wherever/whenever they want to go. The stones at Craigh na dun took Geillis and Claire to two different timelines when both went through them within days of each other. It makes zero sense for Roger and Bree to just accept that the stones will take them to the time they want to go. Especially since the last time they tried it, it didn't work!

[Athena]

On 7/3/2023 at 3:34 PM, taanja said:

Which in 1775 was OLD! The characters Claire and Jaime should look more like the Bugs - who look to be in their 60's.

The actors are playing older. Claire would not really look old though. Claire was brought up in the twentieth century. Even though she had an unconventional upbringing, she was not shown to be poor. Other than being in World War Two and going back in time, she's never had to struggle so there wouldn't be a lot of things that could age her in the same way. She was educated about health and doesn't smoke. She had access to health care more than the average woman of her time. A lot of looking older is a mix of poor health care, diet, stress, and genetics.

[Noneofyourbusiness]

9 hours ago, iMonrey said:

The stones at Craigh na dun took Geillis and Claire to two different timelines when both went through them within days of each other. It makes zero sense for Roger and Bree to just accept that the stones will take them to the time they want to go. Especially since the last time they tried it, it didn't work!

Geillis went to the specific time she wanted, thanks to sacrificing her husband. Bree went to the time she wanted when she followed Claire by thinking of Claire and Roger went to the time he wanted when he followed Bree by thinking of Bree. They stayed in the 18th century when they were thinking about the 18th century. They have no better option than to hope it will work, and even then they worried multiple times about it and didn't just trust it would work.

[DoctorAtomic]

I think the underlying point is that the stones work based on the plot. That's what the show is. 
 

[mythoughtis]

On 7/4/2023 at 11:03 AM, iMonrey said:

It's a common misconception that it was rare for people to live longer back in the day. The average life span was lower but that's because infant mortality was so high. The key word there is "average." When 50% of babies die in infancy, that average number plummets. Assuming you survived childhood you could live a long life. People lived to be in their 80s and 90s even in the biblical age. And at no time was 30 or 40 considered over the hill.

This is the part of the show that confounds me. I don't know why everyone assumes the stones will just automatically take them to wherever/whenever they want to go. The stones at Craigh na dun took Geillis and Claire to two different timelines when both went through them within days of each other. It makes zero sense for Roger and Bree to just accept that the stones will take them to the time they want to go. Especially since the last time they tried it, it didn't work!

The stones take people with genetic background who just walk through 200 years back or ahead ( when returning to their own timeline).    Bree went to Claire when thinking of Claire, but she went to the 200 year back timeline.   Hoping that she’d get there in time to save them from the fire ( the last digit of the year was smudged on the newspaper article).  Geillis  was either a true or make believe witch with access to a spell book.  She found out that she could control the stones time and destination by sacrificing someone to them - she chose her husband.  

Edited July 5, 2023 by mythoughtis

[iMonrey]

15 hours ago, mythoughtis said:

The stones take people with genetic background who just walk through 200 years back or ahead ( when returning to their own timeline).    Bree went to Claire when thinking of Claire, but she went to the 200 year back timeline.   Hoping that she’d get there in time to save them from the fire ( the last digit of the year was smudged on the newspaper article).  Geillis  was either a true or make believe witch with access to a spell book.  She found out that she could control the stones time and destination by sacrificing someone to them - she chose her husband.

Interesting. Is this canon from the books or are you just speculating?

[domina89]

On 7/3/2023 at 3:37 PM, BitterApple said:

I imagine the ruins may not be that much but the renovation would cost an absolute fortune. Electric, HVAC, plumbing, septic, structural repairs, inspections, etc. Even if Brianna sold the Boston house, it probably wouldn't be enough. 

Maybe they plan to just clean it up to its original state without modernizing it.  They could build themselves a new house to live in on the same property for much less money.  They could then open up the main house for tourism to make some money to pay for the repairs.  It would be a great opportunity to educate people about the Fraser family history and also the history of the Highlands.  That's what I would do, anyway. 

[DoctorAtomic]

19 minutes ago, domina89 said:

Maybe they plan to just clean it up to its original state without modernizing it.  They could build themselves a new house to live in on the same property for much less money.  They could then open up the main house for tourism to make some money to pay for the repairs.  It would be a great opportunity to educate people about the Fraser family history and also the history of the Highlands.  That's what I would do, anyway.

That's why I thought of Escape to the Chateau. On that show, they live in the Chateau, but also host weddings and other events. They could do all that with Lollybroch.

53 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Interesting. Is this canon from the books or are you just speculating?

I think it's a fair interpretation of what we've seen on screen. (I don't know anything about the books). The 200 year window of travel happened to Claire, of course, from the get go, but then in the first season, there was the song about someone from the Scotland clan times who went back and then returned, so they established Claire could go back + time elapsed. Bree and Roger did that. Gellis seemed to have more control due to the human sacrifice. She was reading a book about it, but we only got limited information.

After that, with the kids involved, it's gets all timey-whimey to me because, technically, the kids shouldn't be able to go forward. Really, all they had to do was to go forward to give birth and that takes care of that. And now we have the 'just think of where you want to go'. Well, did Claire think about getting busy with a hot Scottish guy the first time she heard the stones? No. Then why did she go back? Because. I don't think the author has any set rules. I don't really care per se, but it is kind of funny. 

I find it mind boggling that there just aren't more conversations about time travel etc. We already commented here that Jaime literally is dreaming about telephones, and Claire is like whatever. I'd speculate that maybe the stones allows Jamie to see through the eyes of his progeny, since his DNA is traveling through time. You'd think he'd have the dreams earlier than now though. But I know it's just a plot point to be picked up later, so that's why it's coming up now. 

Any show where time travel is a plot mechanism eventually requires some handwaving to move the plot along. Even on Doctor Who, all of a sudden there are 'fixed points' when there needs to be.