S05.E06: The Testi-Roastial

[debraran]

7 hours ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

But it was a REALLY expensive cake. 

lol and so was raising Midge😄

[MaryHedwig]

11 hours ago, AuntieMame said:

One last thought about why Joel wouldn’t tell Midge the truth is that Midge would have wanted everyone to be free of mafia entanglements and Joel had done the math and knew that wasn’t an option. Midge has never really experienced something tragic and unjust that can’t be changed. Her reaction to insist that everything go her way might well have gotten some or all of them killed. 

Midge would not have been able to help herself- all the Mafia stuff would have been incorporated into her stand-up routine.

[Lake Erie Lass]

12 hours ago, debraran said:

lol and so was raising Midge😄

But Midge more than paid them back by supporting their sorry, selfish asses for the next few decades!

 

[Lake Erie Lass]

It was hard to watch the aging process continue to hone and sharpen Susie’s personality. But she got what she wanted from life, professionally. She was as addicted to becoming a big-time agent as Midge was a professional comedian. They both had a lot in common in their desire for fame and fortune. But underneath it all was a foundation of love, I believe, for each other. That’s what made the ending so satisfying for me. Once I got used to the juxtaposition of the back and forth between their personal history through the decades, I appreciated the originality of how the writers are leaving us with the closure of both of their stories.

[lucindabelle]

If joel had told Midge she’d be an accessory.

I thought this was the season finale because no more available LOL.

it could be but I definitely feel there would be pieces missing including the Big Break.

no I doubt the FBI would arrest someone at services like that but it was funny as was Midge understanding Chava’s Hebrew. My G-d Chava’s glare at the silent amidah. Silly, too. There’s no law that says you HAVE to be silent or even read the words in the book, you’re just praying silently 

I am glad this wasn’t the finale.

[QQQQ]

On 5/6/2023 at 7:06 AM, EtheltoTillie said:

Yes I have no idea either. 

Did she do the actual singing for Tessie? Like (we think) Hank Azaria did the narration? They are listed in same IMDB section of episode w/o character names.

[EtheltoTillie]

Er, who's Tessie?  --  Oh, Susie's sister!!!  Yeah, possibly. 

[quangtran]

Quote

Sutton Foster is also listed in the credits on IMDb. How did I miss her?

7 hours ago, QQQQ said:

Did she do the actual singing for Tessie? Like (we think) Hank Azaria did the narration? They are listed in same IMDB section of episode w/o character names.

According to an AVCLUB review of the season, there is...

Spoiler

an in-universe family sitcom starring Sherman-Palladino’s Bunheads leading lady Sutton Foster and Hank Azaria

So either it was cut from the episode, or more likely imdb has it wrong and both appear in a future episode.

Emily Bergl is a singer, so I doubt she'd have Sutton sing for her.

[QQQQ]

Looking forward to the mystery being solved! 

[basil]

On 5/5/2023 at 8:41 PM, shapeshifter said:

On 5/5/2023 at 7:08 PM, Sarah 103 said:

I know its TV and it makes for drama, but would the FBI really interrupt a religious service to arrest someone?

I was wondering about this too. Would they do that in a Christian church? 

Why would it be any different for them to effect an arrest in a fictional TV church than in a fictional TV synagogue?

[EtheltoTillie]

https://startefacts.com/news/marvelous-mrs-maisel-pays-a-clever-homage-to-woody-allen-s-best-movie_a135

We'll here's a bit of info we hadn't thought of.  This article thinks the episode is an homage to Broadway Danny Rose, and that actually makes sense.  BDR was a talent agent.  The article also says that Mia Farrow had a relationship with Phillip Roth--never knew that. 

 

There's this . . .

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9501567/Philip-Roth-biography-revealed-Author-cheated-wife-brief-fling-Jackie-Kennedy.html

 

 

[Quilt Fairy]

43 minutes ago, basil said:

Why would it be any different for them to effect an arrest in a fictional TV church than in a fictional TV synagogue?

It wouldn't, and I think that's the point the posters were trying to make.  Traditionally, a church is considered a sanctuary.  But IANAL, and I don't know how old English traditional holds up to 21st century US law. 

[basil]

4 hours ago, EtheltoTillie said:

We'll here's a bit of info we hadn't thought of.  This article thinks the episode is an homage to Broadway Danny Rose, and that actually makes sense.  BDR was a talent agent.

TMMM is chock-full of "homages" that sometimes cross the borderline of rip-offs (imo). The Palladinos do quite a lot of that in this series.

There's a dance number in the episode with Sophie Lennon's telethon that is very similar to Bobby Bana's on a variety show in the 60s. The trash can dance is another, from It's Always Fair Weather. In this episode, Midge calling off her wedding played for laughs is very like Katherine Hepburn's in The Philadelphia Story.

Often, they aren't at all subtle or clever about it (as the author of the article you linked claims). There's the old adage, "Good artists, borrow. Great artists steal". The Pallandinos borrow a lot, and they rarely credit original sources. 

It looks like lazy writing.

Edited May 8, 2023 by basil

[Carolina Girl]

On 5/6/2023 at 9:44 AM, ichbin said:

The same thing crossed my mind.  

My daughter-in-law had the same observation when she and I were watching.  That Midge is getting everything straight before.....

[quangtran]

6 hours ago, basil said:

The Pallandinos borrow a lot, and they rarely credit original sources. 

I don't think it works that way, in that film and tv aren't homework assignments where you have to source your references, especially if it is legally distinct.

[lucindabelle]

7 hours ago, Quilt Fairy said:

It wouldn't, and I think that's the point the posters were trying to make.  Traditionally, a church is considered a sanctuary.  But IANAL, and I don't know how old English traditional holds up to 21st century US law. 

Actually I was just making the point that the FBI would rather NOT make an arrest that publicly if they can help it. IRL they’d have just waited until services were over and quietly approached him. BUT I didn’t mind because it was funny.

[Cosmocrush]

On 5/6/2023 at 8:28 AM, DrSpaceman73 said:

But it was a REALLY expensive cake. 

Heh.   But in a small defense, this was like the fourth wedding they've been through with Midge.  At some point the sentiment is gone.  😉

[basil]

14 hours ago, Quilt Fairy said:

15 hours ago, basil said:

Why would it be any different for them to effect an arrest in a fictional TV church than in a fictional TV synagogue?

It wouldn't, and I think that's the point the posters were trying to make.  Traditionally, a church is considered a sanctuary.  But IANAL, and I don't know how old English traditional holds up to 21st century US law. 

Thanks for your clarification, Quilt Fairy (love your name! I quilt a bit myself). In the US, I don't think it's a law. It's more about respect. I can't think of any arrests that have happened in designated religious buildings. I could be wrong.

and speaking of respect...
 

7 hours ago, quangtran said:

14 hours ago, basil said:

The Pallandinos borrow a lot, and they rarely credit original sources. 

I don't think it works that way, in that film and tv aren't homework assignments where you have to source your references, especially if it is legally distinct.

It actually does work that way, most of the time. The Pallandinos certainly don't have to credit where they get their ideas, but it is common practice amongst professionals, as a matter of respect. At the very least, most professionals don't deny their sources, as the Pallandinos have done in the past. I can explain further if you like, but it isn't appropriate in this thread. Not sure where to move it to if you're inclined. Small talk? Let me know and I'll follow you there.

The Pallandinos aren't in high school, and they ought not have to be legally bound to give credit where it is due, especially when asked about it. Professionals credit other professionals. YMMV.

I loved that Susie and Harry watched Buster Keaton's The Boat in Harry's hospital room. Spend 23 minutes watching it. Harry isn't wrong. Keaton was a genius.

Edited May 9, 2023 by basil

[shapeshifter]

On 5/6/2023 at 11:28 AM, DrSpaceman73 said:

But it was a REALLY expensive cake. 

"But it was a REALLY expensive cake" is probably my favorite post on this thread.
But for those who thought Abe and Rose might have been giving a tad too much focus to the cost of the cake:
My not-so-different parents expressed similar sentiments on occasion, and the "cake" was always a placeholder for a bigger, real life disappointment. It was better to complain about the "cake" than to air one's family problems in public, or even name them in private.
Maybe that's not how the Palladinos intended scene and dialog to be interpretted, but I think it's a legitmate interpretation for these characters we have come to know.

 

[Suzn]

11 hours ago, Cosmocrush said:

Heh.   But in a small defense, this was like the fourth wedding they've been through with Midge.  At some point the sentiment is gone.  😉

But why were they even paying for the cake, four weddings down the line?  Midge could afford it all herself anyway.

[tennisgurl]

That was an amazing episode, possibly one of my favorites of the entire show. I had guessed that the reason Midge and Susie fell out was because Midge threw a fit and screwed up some big gig or deal, but this is much more interesting. I can totally understand why Midge was so upset, especially so soon after Joel was arrested, but I don't think that Susie is necessarily a villain here. She has clearly made a lot of mistakes, but she does continue to care about the people in her life, she is loyal to her friends and clients, she was there for Harry when he was dying, she made a charity in Jackie's name, she still feels more at home with waiters and caddys than the rich and glamourous, and she teared up when Midge reached out to her. 

Looks like Susie finally took Harry's advice and learned golf, which is certainly a good thing considering she created The French Connection, a sitcom, AND Jesus Christ Superstar in one afternoon at the golf course! 

I keep feeling like Joel and Midge will end up back together, which I'm not sure about. They still clearly love each other, but so much has happened now that the ship has sailed for them. 

No shit that cake was expensive, that thing was the size of the Eifel Tower!

In the video Midge sent Susie, was she wearing Rose's jewelry, the jewelry that Midge was never supposed to wear until Rose was dead? I really need Midge and Susie to reconcile, hopefully with Midge also getting closer with her kids again, I need a happy ending here!

[shapeshifter]

9 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Looks like Susie finally took Harry's advice and learned golf, which is certainly a good thing considering she created The French Connection, a sitcom, AND Jesus Christ Superstar in one afternoon at the golf course! 

Heh. I'm not convinced Susie has ever actually swung a club. I imagine she just bought the outfit and tags along with the potential clients. 

 

54 minutes ago, Suzn said:

But why were they even paying for the cake, four weddings down the line?  Midge could afford it all herself anyway.

This fits well with my upthread theory that the cake  was always just "a placeholder for a bigger, real life disappointment."
Maybe the cakes got taller with each wedding.
And now I want to read or write a poem about Midge's Wedding Cakes.

[EtheltoTillie]

25 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Heh. I'm not convinced Susie has ever actually swung a club. I imagine she just bought the outfit and tags along with the potential clients. 

 

My mind was playing tricks on me, so I just scanned the episode on my computer, and yes it looks like she never even picked up a club.  Not even like the time she carried around a plunger. 

[Cosmocrush]

39 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Heh. I'm not convinced Susie has ever actually swung a club. I imagine she just bought the outfit and tags along with the potential clients. 

The golf clubs replaced the plunger 😉

ETA:  Oops, great minds etc.  @EtheltoTillie got there first.  

Edited May 9, 2023 by Cosmocrush

[basil]

3 hours ago, EtheltoTillie said:

4 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Heh. I'm not convinced Susie has ever actually swung a club. I imagine she just bought the outfit and tags along with the potential clients. 

 

My mind was playing tricks on me, so I just scanned the episode on my computer, and yes it looks like she never even picked up a club.  Not even like the time she carried around a plunger. 

Ok, now I have to watch this again, because I remember being impressed with Alex/Susie teeing up and sending a ball off in the stratosphere.

[EtheltoTillie]

9 minutes ago, basil said:

Ok, now I have to watch this again, because I remember being impressed with Alex/Susie teeing up and sending a ball off in the stratosphere.

MEA CULPA!  I scanned too fast.  She does swing a club at 4:30.  Please forgive me! 

[wendyg]

21 hours ago, EtheltoTillie said:

We'll here's a bit of info we hadn't thought of.  This article thinks the episode is an homage to Broadway Danny Rose, and that actually makes sense.  BDR was a talent agent.  The article also says that Mia Farrow had a relationship with Phillip Roth--never knew that. 

Hm. I love that movie, but BDR was the talent agent for absolute no-hopers, for whom he worked his butt off. Whenever anyone *did* become successful, they left him for a better agent. I don't see a lot of Susie in that.

[basil]

4 hours ago, EtheltoTillie said:

4 hours ago, basil said:

Ok, now I have to watch this again, because I remember being impressed with Alex/Susie teeing up and sending a ball off in the stratosphere.

MEA CULPA!  I scanned too fast.  She does swing a club at 4:30.  Please forgive me! 

Lol. no worries! Who knows how many times she took that shot? She nailed it, though.

[FaginZorro]

3 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Heh. I'm not convinced Susie has ever actually swung a club. I imagine she just bought the outfit and tags along with the potential clients. 

I agree. Golf clubs are usually purchased based on one's height. It was shown that Susie used Harry's clubs, which he gave to her. But they would have been too "tall" for a short gal like Susie. Thus, she went to the golf course to hang out, eat and drink at the "19th hole", trade gossip, get fed intel from her caddies, and pitch deals. I suspect that this fictional character put very little effort into her form or stroke or even which club/iron she used. 😉

[kwnyc]

Or maybe she bought a child- size set of clubs and put 'em in the bag! ;-)

[EtheltoTillie]

Here's a BDR clip, including reference to BDR's no hopers, such as the blind xylophone player and the one-legged tap dancer. 

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=broadway+danny+rose+acts#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:f14e6248,vid:qT3YsHnXJek

 

[Sarah 103]

5 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Looks like Susie finally took Harry's advice and learned golf, which is certainly a good thing considering she created The French Connection, a sitcom, AND Jesus Christ Superstar in one afternoon at the golf course! 

I forgot to mention that the golf course scenes were some of the best parts of the episode. I loved seeing her create/pitch a sitcom off the top of her head. Her idea to get tips on what was happening in all parts of the industry from caddies was brilliant. 

5 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

And now I want to read or write a poem about Midge's Wedding Cakes.

Great idea. Each cake could be a metaphor for the relationship, husband, marriage, or where she was in life at that point. 

[FaginZorro]

Some questions for anyone. This show has been going on for six years (with COVID interruption) and I have forgotten much of the continuity and fine points.

1. Wasn't it Harry who sicced Frank and Nicky on Susie because of his fury at how she and Midge had treated Sophie? But didn't things work out that Susie, with her charm and genuineness, was able to divert F and L's original intentions to hurt her, into using her to grow her business to suit their interests?
2. Was Susie's gambling addiction related in any way to F and L and to Midge?
3. When did Susie and Harry reconcile? Last I remember, Harry was looking at Susie like something from the bottom of his shoe. BTW, I have always loved David Paymer. An actor who truly honors his craft. Just sayin'...

It seems that at the end of S5E5, The Pirate Queen, the montage of male voices/comments about Susie and her business was more than her dreams/fantasy, but the real-life follow through of her decision to lean into her F and N connection to break out and further establish her business. Seeing her in the tailor shop ordering new, clothes was further evidence of this decision to

a.) not fight her gambling weaknesses

b.) not rail against and seek to end her F and N indebtedness, but to lean into it for success.

The next episode, S5E6, Testi-Roastial offers further proof of Susie's conscious decision.

BTW, I loved how Susie took Dinah's being attacked by her BF personally and deployed F and N on the BF. I loved how Susie threw in Zabar treats for good measure! I physically shuddered when I saw F whip out the bat! OMG!

I did not see, why near the end of S3, why Susie went to Joel to harbor Midge's earnings after Susie gambled away Midge's Shy Baldwin tour earnings. I just did not get it. But it makes sense NOW after viewing the Testi-Roastial and explains why Joel was hyper-suspicious about what was going on after the industrial show.

[pasdetrois]

On 5/8/2023 at 3:31 PM, basil said:

Bobby Bana's on a variety show in the 60s.

Is it his Nitty Gritty number?

[basil]

4 hours ago, pasdetrois said:

On 5/8/2023 at 12:31 PM, basil said:

Bobby Bana's on a variety show in the 60s.

Is it his Nitty Gritty number?

 

Yes. It isn't as on the nose as the trash cab dance, but the scenes from Sophie's telethon and Judy Garland's show are quite similar.

[Sarah 103]

3 hours ago, FaginZorro said:

I did not see, why near the end of S3, why Susie went to Joel to harbor Midge's earnings after Susie gambled away Midge's Shy Baldwin tour earnings. I just did not get it. But it makes sense NOW after viewing the Testi-Roastial and explains why Joel was hyper-suspicious about what was going on after the industrial show.

I always thought Susie went to Joel for two main reasons. 1) Susie knew that despite what happened between them, Joel would want to do what was best for Midge, would want to help her and make sure she was okay financially. 2) Joel was one of the few people Susie trusted and felt she could turn to. 

 

[lucindabelle]

Susie STOLE from Midge. She basically used Midge to pay off her bookies.

does that negate everything Susie ever did? Does it make her a shyster who ripped off Harry? Of course not and it’s why I’m glad she and Midge are reconciling.

 

but Susie’s gambling addiction meant she had TWO SETS OF BOOKS. She booked Midge into casinos to pay Susie’s debts, and Midge knew nothing about it.

Susie is lucky Midge didn’t sue her or press charges.

on another site I was a bit Schocked the recapper didn’t seem to get that Midge didn’t dump Susie out of some character flaw or foible. She did exactly what George was doing to Gordon. She was making side deals- and worse- actually stealing.

that doesn’t mean she didn’t discover Midge. Doesn’t mean the love isn’t real. 

 

On 5/9/2023 at 10:22 AM, Suzn said:

But why were they even paying for the cake, four weddings down the line?  Midge could afford it all herself anyway.

It’s a Jewish mother (parent) thing. They have to be included some way. (I’m Jewish I can say this!) seriously I do think she’s still their little girl so even though they’re not making the whole wedding they want to make some of it.

 

that cake was HUGE.

[areca]

Midge has terminal cancer is my expectation.  Getting rid of her clothing, extending an olive branch, retiring.  All the signs are there.

[luvthepros]

What did I miss? All this talk about an olive branch. Will someone please explain it to me? Thanks.

[Crs97]

When Joel got arrested, Midge and Susie had a huge fight and split up.  Midge was hiring lawyers to look at Susie’s books, the works.  In the 60 minutes interview, they mention the falling out, and in Susie’s roast they keep calling Midge “she who must not be named.”  Then at the end of the roast they show a final video, and it’s Midge reminiscing about the old times and asking Susie to meet so they can bury the hatchet.  Susie immediately leaves the roast and orders her assistant to track down Midge’s number.

[luvthepros]

16 hours ago, Crs97 said:

When Joel got arrested, Midge and Susie had a huge fight and split up.  Midge was hiring lawyers to look at Susie’s books, the works.  In the 60 minutes interview, they mention the falling out, and in Susie’s roast they keep calling Midge “she who must not be named.”  Then at the end of the roast they show a final video, and it’s Midge reminiscing about the old times and asking Susie to meet so they can bury the hatchet.  Susie immediately leaves the roast and orders her assistant to track down Midge’s number.

Is this post an answer to my query about the olive branch?????

[Cosmocrush]

22 hours ago, luvthepros said:

What did I miss? All this talk about an olive branch. Will someone please explain it to me? Thanks.

Extending an olive branch refers to Midge's offer of peace/making up to Susie, suggesting they get together after years of  being estranged.

 

 

[luvthepros]

44 minutes ago, Cosmocrush said:

Extending an olive branch refers to Midge's offer of peace/making up to Susie, suggesting they get together after years of  being estranged.

 

 

Thank you for the explanation.

[Crs97]

6 hours ago, luvthepros said:

22 hours ago, Crs97 said:

When Joel got arrested, Midge and Susie had a huge fight and split up.  Midge was hiring lawyers to look at Susie’s books, the works.  In the 60 minutes interview, they mention the falling out, and in Susie’s roast they keep calling Midge “she who must not be named.”  Then at the end of the roast they show a final video, and it’s Midge reminiscing about the old times and asking Susie to meet so they can bury the hatchet.  Susie immediately leaves the roast and orders her assistant to track down Midge’s number.

Expand  

Is this post an answer to my query about the olive branch?????

Yes it is.  Hope it helped.

[luvthepros]

11 hours ago, Crs97 said:

Yes it is.  Hope it helped.

It certainly did. Thank you

[NoThyme]

On 5/5/2023 at 5:07 AM, EtheltoTillie said:

The whole episode played like a Goodfellas homage (kitchen scenes, anyone?).  Who was the narrator who sounded like Ray Liotta, Ray Liotta being unavailable?  The best I can come up with is uncredited Hank Azaria.  He’s listed in the IMDB credits for this episode. 

9. Nancy (With The Laughing Face) – Hank Azaria
[1:00’] End credits song

Edited May 15, 2023 by NoThyme
Sent to soon

[EtheltoTillie]

7 minutes ago, NoThyme said:

9. Nancy (With The Laughing Face) – Hank Azaria
[1:00’] End credits song

1. Spoiler

   But that’s the next episode. 

    

[Blakeston]

I really enjoyed this episode, but I have a nitpick. Bewitched was on the air until 1972, so Elizabeth Montgomery would not have been available to star in a new sitcom with Andy Griffith in 1970.

Unless she dropped Bewitched to do this new show - but destroying Bewitched would make Susie a monster!

Edited May 19, 2023 by Blakeston

[whiporee]

2 hours ago, Blakeston said:

I really enjoyed this episode, but I have a nitpick. Bewitched was on the air until 1972, so Elizabeth Montgomery would not have been available to star in a new sitcom with Andy Griffith in 1970.

Unless she dropped Bewitched to do this new show - but destroying Bewitched would make Susie a monster!

Maybe she was the hero who saved us all from the Darren 2 years. 

[smartymarty]

On 5/5/2023 at 8:22 PM, SnapHappy said:

As he pointed out, Midge was the mother of his children.  They needed to be protected and taken care of. 

But he's the father of his children. He just shifted who was in trouble.