S19.E16: Gunpowder and Lead

[Bort]

Amelia takes her personal problems out on her work colleagues, and the threats against Bailey come to a terrifying head. Lucas and Jules make a risky decision on a patient, and Mika struggles with burnout.

Airdate: April 20, 2023

[ams1001]

Why are a senior surgeon and a surgical intern doing a colonoscopy? That's something a gastroenterologist does.

Really? Maggie leaving is Winston's fault? "Forgive your smallness?" Get over yourself, Amelia.

Of course, we all knew it was a matter of time before the LARPing guy stopped breathing (on a side note, Doctor Mike would be so disappointed with Jules's chest compressions). His Princess coming to see him was cute.

Um, it's a nice sentiment, I guess, but having everyone calling random people who have no problem harrassing a doctor sounds like not a great idea.

Good for Helm. Is this gonna be the opening for her to come back to the hospital?

[LexieLily]

Owen's speech in Teddy's office was a nice sentiment but that wasn't in-scene dialog, that was a PSA. 

YANG MENTION!

Edited April 21, 2023 by LexieLily

[DEL901]

All those calls…yes, let’s put more targets on the nut bars radar.  

And another PSA.   I agree with this message and the animal rights message and the reproductive rights message, but there have to be more organic ways to get the message across other than a lecture.  

LARP guy’s story was predictable but it was nice the princess came at the end. 

And I was waiting for Richard to get run down in the parking lot.   

[KaveDweller]

Liked Addison talking to Amelia. Amelia was being ridiculous and Addison didn't even see her blaming Winston for Maggie leaving.

[ams1001]

1 hour ago, DEL901 said:

And I was waiting for Richard to get run down in the parking lot.   

Me, too!!

How many people did they call, anyway? There had to be hundreds if not thousands of calls to Bailey’s phone. Likely a lot of them were the same people calling multiple times, but still…

I don’t even remember what Owen was speechifying about…

Edited April 21, 2023 by ams1001

[txhorns79]

1 hour ago, DEL901 said:

All those calls…yes, let’s put more targets on the nut bars radar.  

It does very little to actually address the problem.  For the people looking to harass and frighten Bailey, it teaches them that they will get a response if they call enough.  It wouldn't do anything for someone like the crazy person who staged an illness so he could yell at Bailey in person. 

 

48 minutes ago, KaveDweller said:

Liked Addison talking to Amelia. Amelia was being ridiculous and Addison didn't even see her blaming Winston for Maggie leaving.

I really enjoyed that moment.  Amelia was being a baby and needs to be treated like a child throwing a tantrum. 

[statsgirl]

30 minutes ago, ams1001 said:

I don’t even remember what Owen was speechifying about…

Shootings. School shootings, grocery store shootings, the fact that there are so many shootings that it's not even remarkable any more.

I rather like it when the show takes a stand but doing 3 different ones (reproductive rights, shootings, overworking interns) in one episode is too much. But good for Helms seeing that Yasuda is overwhelmed and confronting Teddy about it.

Addison was a breath of fresh air, especially when everyone else was being hysterical. But having the hospital staff calling Bailey's harassers as if they would going to listen to reason was a really stupid idea. As GBS noted, there is no stronger force than someone who is going something for their religion.

Amelia was spiralling and also being self-indulgent so kudos to Addison for giving her a loving verbal smacking and Richard for giving her the support she needed. Owen, on the other hand, was totally wrong; not only did he call Amelia in for the surgery instead of the neurosurgeon on call, he disrespected her when she got there, overruling her and letting Winston, who has far less seniority, call all the shots,, and insulting her during the surgery to all the nurses and residents there, behaviour made worse by the fact that she has supported him in the past when he needed it. Go jump in the ocean, Owen.

Nice to see Lucas carrying on the Shepherd brilliance. And at last an explanation for Mullin's anti-relationship stridency.

[DEL901]

If you could convert fanatics by reasoned discussion, they wouldn’t be fanatics.  These people are passionate enough about their “cause” that they are willing to call, harass and even threaten Bailey.   Now they have the phone numbers of a whole bunch more people to harass.  

[Lady Calypso]

Yeah, the entire "call the callers" plan was so bad and made so little sense. It's never going to stop the callers, realistically. It would only incite them to start calling THOSE doctors. Plus, it has those doctors, and the Station 19 crew they recruited, to get harassed.

Of course, this show will likely make it work, besides maybe the couple who escalate things. But man, this is the wrong lesson to teach their viewers, to call their harassers.

Amelia's spiraling always makes me annoyed, but she was EXTRA mean this time. Yikes, Mika didn't deserve what she got from Amelia at all. It WAS funny to see Amelia walk in to the consult, said one snarky comment and Owen going "nope, not doing this with Amelia again" and shut her shit down. He knows her well. And good on Addison for telling her to stop her spiral and go get help. I'm glad Richard was also there to help Amelia out before it got worse.

I'm glad Helm stood up for Mika to Teddy. I get Teddy isn't the cause of the Residency Program shutting down or half the shit the interns last class dealt with, but it IS the Chief's job so Helm had to go to the only Chief they seem to have. Especially given that all the other interns see Mika overworked and are not saying a word about it to the attendings. They apparently think it's normal for an intern to go from the hospital to the bar just to make more money.

I did like the Jo plot. As much as it was frustrating to see Jo snap at Link, I actually think she was in the right. She told Link that she needed time to process and needed to get all the answers first before jumping into solutions. Link didn't listen to her at all. She apologized once she got the answers, which is good, but she needed someone to listen to her (which I guess was Schmitt). Link's heart was in the right place, but he wasn't listening to Jo. 

The Lucas/Jules case was nice, although I really do find myself hating Lucas/Simone's love triangle stuff. It makes BOTH of them look bad. They should have never introduced Trey. But I do love them allowing all the interns to interact with each other. It seems like they're testing out who works best with who. And we find out even more about Jules, who is fast becoming my favourite intern. Her and Mika are my favourites, for sure. It used to be Simone and Lucas before they introduced this mess of a love triangle. 

 

[marceline]

This episode was everything I hate about Amelia. This reminded me of when Meredith was leaving and everyone yelled at her about "How can you leave? You grew up here! This hospital made you!" Just all kinds of emotional blackmail. People moving on with their lives isn't abandonment. Loved Addison checking her because, yeah, we saw how this went on Private Practice. Addie, was like, "Nope, we're not doing this again."

And can we please stop with the speeches and tantrums? Amelia's verbal abuse of Yasuda was way over the top. Meanwhile Owen's like, "Yeah, that's just her." No. That can't be her in the workplace. Don't even get me started on her being mad at Winston for Maggie leaving, How that man didn't just look at her and say, "Bitch, you're tripping" I will never understand. 

50 minutes ago, DEL901 said:

If you could convert fanatics by reasoned discussion, they wouldn’t be fanatics.  These people are passionate enough about their “cause” that they are willing to call, harass and even threaten Bailey.   Now they have the phone numbers of a whole bunch more people to harass.  

As someone who has been active in the reproductive rights movement for decades, that scene made me want to scream. Schmidt was telling someone how Bailey trained him, and I thought, they won't care about that when they are planting pipe bombs at the hospital.

[Laurie4H]

A person faking an illness just go after a doctor for the reasons the show is conveying just doesn’t happen.  If it did it would be all over the news.  I just think this show gets too heavy handed.  Owens speech to me was the writers trying to show how progessive they are.  There are more subtle ways of doing it.  The patient with the bullets in him was an interesting plot but coupled with everyone pooring their hearts out to the dr’s and Owen PSA…..I just say tone it down.  

Edited April 21, 2023 by Laurie4H

[DEL901]

14 minutes ago, Laurie4H said:

A person faking an illness just go after a doctor for the reasons the show is conveying just doesn’t happen.  If it did it would be all over the news.  I just think this show gets too heavy handed.  Owens speech to me was the writers trying to show how progessive they are.  There are more subtle ways of doing it.  The patient with the bullets in him was an interesting plot but coupled with everyone pooring their hearts out to the dr’s and Owen PSA…..I just say tone it down.  

The show has turned into an After School Special…. for those old enough to remember them.  

[iMonrey]

Quote

And I was waiting for Richard to get run down in the parking lot.   

I was half expecting his car to explode when he opened the door. That's the thing, these zealots who are harassing Bailey wouldn't necessarily just zero in on her, they'd target the whole clinic/hospital. Everyone there would be getting the same treatment.

Quote

But good for Helms seeing that Yasuda is overwhelmed and confronting Teddy about it.

But aren't all the interns overwhelmed? What makes Yasuda so special? It was her decision to take an extra job at the bar, nobody forced her to and the other interns apparently don't need the extra money. Doesn't she have free room and board at Chez Meredith?

Quote

If you could convert fanatics by reasoned discussion, they wouldn’t be fanatics.  These people are passionate enough about their “cause” that they are willing to call, harass and even threaten Bailey.   Now they have the phone numbers of a whole bunch more people to harass.

That's it, exactly. You can't reason with unreasonable people.

[funnygirl]

Amelia is exhausting. As if she hasn't abandoned people before... like her sweet fiance James from Private Practice. She ditched him to move to Seattle. Or Link, the father of her son and the best relationship she's had on Grey's Anatomy. Amelia would have her little family right now if she had better discernment. 

Here "sisters" didn't abandon her, they are a phone call or plane ride away. And she should be thankful that Kai is out of the picture, that relationship was doomed from the start (and boring. so boring.). 

It's always good to see Addison. I had to laugh when Cristina Yang's name popped up. It's so random, but a nice gesture from her. The memory of what great characters this show used to have just makes the current landscape that much more depressing. 

[Lady Calypso]

52 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

But aren't all the interns overwhelmed? What makes Yasuda so special? It was her decision to take an extra job at the bar, nobody forced her to and the other interns apparently don't need the extra money. Doesn't she have free room and board at Chez Meredith?

Apparently, she has a lot of student loans to pay off. Which, sure, I guess all of them do, but we don't know why Mika seems to have more. I forget if we've heard much about her family situation, but as she's been living in her car, it makes sense.

[statsgirl]

Amelia should not have taken her emotional issues out on Yasuda. And last week Owen banned her from his operating room.  Writing-wise, it advances Yasuda's story.

Compared to what I've heard in the workplace, what I've personally experienced, it was unfair but not unusual. I had a  boss that came into the joint room every morning and yelled at us just to yell at us, not because we did anything wrong. At pay time, the company told us juniors that there wasn't any money to give us the raise that we had been promised (we were at minimum wage), and then gave the boss a bonus equivalent to 6 months salary for me.

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

But aren't all the interns overwhelmed? What makes Yasuda so special? It was her decision to take an extra job at the bar, nobody forced her to and the other interns apparently don't need the extra money. Doesn't she have free room and board at Chez Meredith?

It's worse for Yasuda since she's taken to selling her plasma for money. The cost of medical school is crippling and Lucas, Blue and Mullin probably had help from family or scholarships.  A first year surgical resident in the US makes about $60,000 which isn't that much in a city like Seattle and she was not only paying her school debt, she was sending money home to her family.

A super duper hospital like Grey Sloan should have lots of research money. The solution is for Teddy to give Yasuda a research job which pays more than bar tending and where she could probably work her own hours.

[Madding crowd]

Why in the world would Grey’s advocate returning calls to violent, nut jobs who are threatening a doctor? Do we think even one of these people will magically change their minds from a random doctor calling them? 
 

I don’t really like the new interns except the Shepherd one because he seems nice. Mika is an annoying combo of needy and full of herself and if the job is too much for her she can consider other careers in the medical field. Also dislike the one who blames her parents because she did poorly on a test. Once you are in college and beyond you are responsible for your own choices. 
 

 

[marceline]

54 minutes ago, Madding crowd said:

Why in the world would Grey’s advocate returning calls to violent, nut jobs who are threatening a doctor? Do we think even one of these people will magically change their minds from a random doctor calling them? 

I'm just assuming that was the writers room trying to play nice with the opposition to appease The Powers That Be because that was little more than a fairy tale. Every person they called would se even more committed to killing the people consider "abortionists" and "baby killers."

I'd like to revisit the guy who went after Bailey. I want to see him in jail and suffering. I know this show would try to rehab him but I long for the day that doesn't happen.

I know some considered Owen's scene to be too much but let's look at the character's history. He's an Iraq War vet who survived a mass shooting. Sadly, that's not an unrealistic thing. However clumsy it is, I appreciate this show calling out gun culture. We're doing a mass shooting every week. IMO, pop culture needs to reflect that reality.

[DEL901]

1 hour ago, marceline said:

I'm just assuming that was the writers room trying to play nice with the opposition to appease The Powers That Be because that was little more than a fairy tale. Every person they called would se even more committed to killing the people consider "abortionists" and "baby killers."

I'd like to revisit the guy who went after Bailey. I want to see him in jail and suffering. I know this show would try to rehab him but I long for the day that doesn't happen.

I know some considered Owen's scene to be too much but let's look at the character's history. He's an Iraq War vet who survived a mass shooting. Sadly, that's not an unrealistic thing. However clumsy it is, I appreciate this show calling out gun culture. We're doing a mass shooting every week. IMO, pop culture needs to reflect that reality.

Agree.  Every person they called would say, “OMG, the baby killer’s friends just called and tried to recruit me!   We have to get rid of them all!”  

[KaveDweller]

5 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I was half expecting his car to explode when he opened the door. That's the thing, these zealots who are harassing Bailey wouldn't necessarily just zero in on her, they'd target the whole clinic/hospital. Everyone there would be getting the same treatment.

But aren't all the interns overwhelmed? What makes Yasuda so special? It was her decision to take an extra job at the bar, nobody forced her to and the other interns apparently don't need the extra money. Doesn't she have free room and board at Chez Meredith?

I wish they would elaborate on this a bit. It seems Yasuda maybe just had bigger loans, or maybe her terms were worse. You'd think she could renegotiate a better payment plan or something though. Not being able to get through residency is going to prevent her from paying them off fully. If the banks let her pay less now, she'll become a better doctor and can pay them back later. 

She has also been sending money to her parents because they co-signed her loans, but I'm not really sure why that is needed. I think most parents would not take money from their child if they knew she was literally selling her plasma to make ends meet.

It could be that the other interns come from families with more money and so had more support for med school?

[txhorns79]

16 hours ago, statsgirl said:

Shootings. School shootings, grocery store shootings, the fact that there are so many shootings that it's not even remarkable any more.

Particularly at a hospital that went through it's own very traumatic shooting which killed a number of doctors.  And that doesn't even count Meredith getting blown up in the second season, or Stephanie blowing up a floor at the hospital to try and escape from that rapist/kidnapper. 

 

8 minutes ago, KaveDweller said:

 

She has also been sending money to her parents because they co-signed her loans, but I'm not really sure why that is needed. I think most parents would not take money from their child if they knew she was literally selling her plasma to make ends meet.

I didn't understand that because the parents would only be on the hook to pay back the loans if Yasuda failed to do so. 

I do love seeing Addison.  I know it wouldn't make much sense storywise, but I'd love to see her return as a regular.  It feels like Grey-Sloan needs more adults running things. 

[Lady Calypso]

12 minutes ago, KaveDweller said:

It could be that the other interns come from families with more money and so had more support for med school?

We know Lucas comes from a family who is probably upper middle class (because his mother IS one of the Doctor Shepherds), and it's unclear what everyone else's financial situations are. Jules comes from parents who did drugs, but from what we know about her, it doesn't sound like they struggled for money (though she IS living with an elderly woman to save money so she probably doesn't have THAT much). Simone doesn't seem like she comes from money given her history, but I guess it's possible since we don't know a lot beyond her mother dying in childbirth and her grandmother showing up at the start of the season. And Blue is still kind of a mystery, but he was able to go to medical school outside of the US and wasn't he taken aback when he heard Jules' roommate was in her 80s? So he could have some money saved up. He is also super competitive, so he could have gotten scholarships along the way.

All we know about Mika is that she has a bunch of siblings (seven?) and that she's struggled with money from the start. From living in her van to donating plasma now to working two jobs, they HAVE established that Mika doesn't have financial support like others do. And, honestly, I think it's realistic, and we've never really seen any of the interns in the past struggle for money. Not even Jo, who we all know has, say it with me now, "lived in her car". 

So I think it makes sense; it's just weird for us to see it on Grey's because everyone on Grey's seem to have plenty of money with no issues. I get surgeons are able to make enough to live comfortably, but interns are a different story. 

[MrWhyt]

57 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

And Blue is still kind of a mystery, but he was able to go to medical school outside of the US a

He went to some school in the Caribbean, because he couldn't get into an american school due to grades. He's also mentioned having massive medical debt due to a relative's (mother's?) illness in the episode where he proposed that a couple get a divorce to insulate the husband from the wife's medical bills.

[shantown]

13 hours ago, DEL901 said:

Now they have the phone numbers of a whole bunch more people to harass.  

This was my first thought! I would want to support Bailey, but giving these people my personal number when I already know what kind of harassment and violence they're taking part in? Heck no.

The Yang mention at the end made the episode for me.

[choclatechip45]

I loved Addison telling Amelia off. We went through this on Private Pratice. 

The yang reference was great at the end. 

[NoReally]

On 4/21/2023 at 3:04 PM, marceline said:

Why in the world would Grey’s advocate returning calls to violent, nut jobs who are threatening a doctor?

I think Grey's believed that the majority of these people were up for protesting but didn't go along with the violence. And maybe they hoped those people could exert some influence over the violent ones to back off.

Not likely to happen, probably, but I believe that might've been Grey's thinking.

[Court]

On 4/21/2023 at 11:57 AM, iMonrey said:

I was half expecting his car to explode when he opened the door. That's the thing, these zealots who are harassing Bailey wouldn't necessarily just zero in on her, they'd target the whole clinic/hospital. Everyone there would be getting the same treatment.

But aren't all the interns overwhelmed? What makes Yasuda so special? It was her decision to take an extra job at the bar, nobody forced her to and the other interns apparently don't need the extra money. Doesn't she have free room and board at Chez Meredith?

That's it, exactly. You can't reason with unreasonable people.

Yes yes yes! No one made Yasuda get a second job. I didn't like that scene with Helm. I have no idea how much interns are paid and maybe it isn't great but that whole scene annoyed me. Also, Yasuda has loans but she doesn't have rent and is splitting utilities 3 or 4 ways so she shouldn't be doing all that bad. 

[RoxiP]

It is not necessarily true that Yasuda's parents would only be on the hook for the loans if she defaulted...a lot of my friends took out loans to help put their children through school in their own name and are responsible for them regardless of what their children do or do not do.  I was lucky enough to be able to put my daughter through college without loans (although I will now be working until I die at my desk!) but the debt can also be incurred by the parents along with the student.

Having said that, I agree - why is she so special?

[Court]

Also, Teddy can't fix the loans or the cost of med school. 60k sounds good since she is living rent free and splitting utilities. 

[MarylandGirl]

2 hours ago, RoxiP said:

It is not necessarily true that Yasuda's parents would only be on the hook for the loans if she defaulted...a lot of my friends took out loans to help put their children through school in their own name and are responsible for them regardless of what their children do or do not do.  I was lucky enough to be able to put my daughter through college without loans (although I will now be working until I die at my desk!) but the debt can also be incurred by the parents along with the student.

Having said that, I agree - why is she so special?

I wonder if maybe she had some other debt, like a bunch of credit card debt or something? It would be good for them to explain that.

[ams1001]

Is there any ability to defer med school loans while you're still an intern/resident?

[PepSinger]

On 4/25/2023 at 10:08 AM, ams1001 said:

Is there any ability to defer med school loans while you're still an intern/resident?

Yes, depending on the loan servicer. However, the interest doesn’t stop in forbearance, so it’s a much better option to do an IDR plan of some sort.

[readster]

 WOW! Winston proved the main problem with majority of the attendings who are named Linc. He actually wanted his student to learn, explain they need to focus because if they do the job for them. It will be worse the next time. Of course the cliche of NO ONE being around for the gamer when he started crashing from his air way. Sorry, Levi would have been close to the floor in such a situation, you know like a REAL hospital. The call thing was just stupid, especially given the situation. My wife yelled at the TV, because she is "tired of hearing about it" and thinking it's too much. Thinking: "these people need to think about the good life instead of what other people are doing in their bedrooms an why they go to a hospital." I look at her and go: "Sounds great honey, but sadly you can't fix stupid." 

[Rae Spellman]

Teddy, Owen, Simone, and a few others called from hospital phones. The direct number probably wouldn't show up on caller ID. Hopefully the doctors and fire fighters who used their own phones blocked their numbers before making the calls.

Simone lived with her grandmother before moving into the intern house. At some point her car broke down. Jules lives with Max because it's cheaper than other options. The money Mika sends to her parents seems to be the difference between getting by on a modest salary and eating donuts from a dumpster. 

Lucas' situation is odder. He lived at the hospital and told Amelia that the place he found was a roach infested hostel. It's very likely that he doesn't have student loans because his mother/parents paid for his education. Maybe he's trying to live off his own income.