S03.E08: Chapter Twenty Four - The Return

[DoctorAtomic]

Or, "Let's just not make rules that have us end up at each other's throats again". 

They finally got the planet back. I'm hoping they'll be able to keep it. 

[raven]

On 4/20/2023 at 9:48 PM, Ottis said:

This ep, like the Jack Black ep, felt kind of embarrassing. Like the show was made for 12yo kids, and offers nothing beyond that. It was pretty, sure. But it has become so simplistic (and cutesy, with Grogu) that it really does work better as a Saturday morning cartoon than thoughtful story telling. 

I agree that the Jack Black episode was terrible and (IMO of course) the worst episode of the show.  I don't share your dislike of Grogu, but the show is not the same as the one that fearlessly killed off Kuiil and IG-11 in S1.  These were two flawed characters we knew briefly, yet understood and grew affection for, who sacrificed themselves for others.   The show as it now stands doesn't share those stakes any longer, though this trend started in S2.   Paz Vizsla's sacrifice doesn't come close and could be argued as foolish and unnecessary.  The battle for Mandalore in this ep looked good but I was certain that the Mandalorians would win and no one we were invested in would die, so it was not really exciting for me.   The best part of this episode was "R5! Next shield!"  Grogu holding back the flames was pretty cool but we've seen that before.  Gideon was so OTT it was silly and he's probably not dead either.

Speaking of Gideon, he's faced with the enemy he loathes, finally helpless and at his disposal - and he doesn't force Din's helmet off.  Other than capturing Grogu, there is no worse outcome for Din, who would probably rather die than be humiliated that way.  Just ridiculous that the show couldn't bring itself to go there.  Pedro Pascal could have acted the hell out of that.

I pretty much yawned my way through Gideon and his council.  I've watched all of Clone Wars and Rebels and I know what this show is setting the plate for but I really am not interested on this show (Ahsoka's show will be different, though I'm feeling kinda burnt out, lol).  When The Mandalorian premiered, I was excited by a show with the action on the fringes of the galaxy.   Humans and non-humans still struggle with their everyday lives (as we saw in Andor) irrespective of whatever galactic turmoil is happening.  That's what interested me. 

Having recently re-watched S1 and 2, S3 feels like they switched direction abruptly.  We've seen Din negotiate with different/competing factions; make deals to get what he wants/get stuff done.  I like Katee Sackhoff and Bo-Katan just fine, but nothing has shown that she is more capable to rule Mandalore, other than her name.  Without Din's quest to bathe in the waters (which was treated as a silly lark - look at him get captured! and fall in the water!) Bo-Katan would be still be sitting by herself, a quick hop from her home planet, not realizing that there was breathable air or that people were living there and growing things!   TBH, I don't care who rules Mandalore, unless it involves Din and what it looked like his arc would be. 

I prefer that he not become a big player - if the show goes back to Din and Grogu navigating their way around the galaxy, making their own Mandalorian way and occasionally interacting with other SW characters, I would be happy.  It just felt like the show was gearing towards Din as reluctant ruler and/or confilct with Bo-Katan.  The mythical Darksaber was disposed of easily. 

I don't hate the show - I am here for all things Din and Grogu - but the show has painted themselves in a corner.  I'm glad that Grogu walking around in IG-11's corpse didn't last long BUT what does the show do?  Have Grogu speak in a cutesy baby voice (invalidates bringing him to battle or on bounty hunts if he really sounds like a child) or speak in a Yoda type voice (definitely less cute).  There's a reason they're holding off on him speaking and it is $$, not good storytelling.  I'm sure there's a middle ground there somewhere but I don't know what it is. 

I've found both S1 and 2 re-watchable but not S3.    Star Wars is starting to feel like the MCU; we have interesting products that then become repetitive, especially when blended together.   Andor stands alone but we know that protagonist's end game.

When/if S4 gets here..eh, we'll see.  

[Shanna Marie]

I think my main issue with the finale was that it was lacking in emotional heft. This is one of those where the fan speculation might have actually been better than the real episode. Not that I really wanted the Armorer to turn out to be working for Gideon, but that at least might have had some real impact on the characters.

It was "awww" inspiring when Din formally adopted Grogu, and it was nice to see the Mandalorians united and relighting the forge, but there was no real emotional depth to the episode. It was lacking what I've seen some writing books refer to as "the third rail" that powers the events of the story, the reason the events matter. No one had to make difficult choices or face internal conflict.

For instance, look at the season 2 finale. We had Bo-Katan's story with the Darksaber, where she wants it because she needs it to unite and rule Mandalore, but then in a twist, Din is the one who ends up fighting and defeating Gideon, so he becomes the rightful holder. Bo-Katan is left with a personal dilemma: does she accept that Din has it or does she fight her ally to try to win it? Meanwhile, Din has to wrestle with letting Grogu go for Jedi training with Luke. He clearly doesn't want Grogu to go, but he's trying to do what's best for the kid, and he sacrifices by breaking his vows and removing his helmet so Grogu can see his face before he leaves.

In this episode, after all the stuff about the Darksaber, it gets destroyed and we never learn how anyone feels about that. There's no reaction at all. How does Bo-Katan feel about it? What do the other Mandalorians think? She's lighting the forge, so I guess she's still in charge, but if leadership is determined by ownership of the Darksaber and the Darksaber is gone, how does Bo-Katan hold her leadership position now? Maybe that's stuff for the next season, but it seems like something that would have come up in the immediate aftermath and before she lit the forge.

As for the Din and Grogu storyline, it seemed kind of anticlimactic for Din to officially adopt Grogu. They were already a clan of two, so this seems like it was just a formality. We never saw Din torn about whether or not he could be a father or denying that he could have that role. He's been accepting people calling Grogu his kid for a long time. It didn't seem like it was any kind of culmination of an internal struggle that led to him finally making a big decision (like, for instance, the season finale of Andor, when Andor finally accepted something he'd been running from all season).

I guess it was all too easy. Everyone got what they wanted. There weren't really any sacrifices or tough decisions. Even the things that were lost were kind of shrugged off, like the Darksaber or even Paz. When Ragnar was being baptized, there wasn't any mention of his father or anyone else adopting him and having to take on responsibility for him now that he's an orphan -- and that could have led to Grogu's adoption and showed what Din was taking on so there was more to it than "okay, I'll adopt him."

[Athena]

2 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

In this episode, after all the stuff about the Darksaber, it gets destroyed and we never learn how anyone feels about that. There's no reaction at all. How does Bo-Katan feel about it? What do the other Mandalorians think? She's lighting the forge, so I guess she's still in charge, but if leadership is determined by ownership of the Darksaber and the Darksaber is gone, how does Bo-Katan hold her leadership position now?

I think the Darksaber is one of those things that mean a lot to certain fans and to certain characters, but it wasn't that important to our leads. Din didn't care about it and found it both literally and figuratively heavy to wield. The Armorer seemed indifferent about it and his covert didn't take orders from Din or anyone who had it. It was important to Bo's faction but more like an excuse and as a symbol (see how Din pushed them to accept it through the loophole). Even Bo-Katan has mixed feelings about it considering recent history and she clearly didn't want it in Rebels the first time or even here after Din won it in S2.

I think the show was trying to say that Bo-Katan had finally become a leader through uniting her people and trying to bridge the gap between them. She is holding her leadership position by having brought two opposing Mandalorian tribes together. It probably won't be an easy road but it's better than where they were after basically a genocide.

I agree about the lack of emotional resolution in this episode. Din and Grogu spend the whole season with these Mandalorians and we don't even get them to say "See ya later," after it's all done. I really hope we see more pay off in S4 or the other shows.

Filoni and Favreau do a better job than the movies generally with character development and dialogue, but I was reminded this episode that this universe has stoic and inexpressive characters. We don't even see the face of the protagonist and the other one does not talk at all. There is heart to this show with Din and Grogu but they are conservative with what the characters can express. Other than anger or violence with action, there's a lot of restraint to how everyone acts and is directed to act. There is very little rumination or emotional reflection of events. Unfortunately, I think this is an inherent theme of SW itself. 

[MissLucas]

The Darksaber was an artefact that created more trouble than it was worth. It was also a symbol of Mandalorian factionalism that led to their defeat against the empire. So nobody should shed any tears that it's gone. 

[FnkyChkn34]

1 hour ago, Athena said:

I think the show was trying to say that Bo-Katan had finally become a leader through uniting her people and trying to bridge the gap between them. She is holding her leadership position by having brought two opposing Mandalorian tribes together. It probably won't be an easy road but it's better than where they were after basically a genocide.

I think that Bo is now the leader of the Mandalorians, with the Armorer passing her the torch at the end, literally and figuratively.  It was Bo who re-lit the forge.  I'm not sure that the Armorer necessarily always wanted to be a leader, she was just thrust into that role after the purge.  I'm thinking that she's actually happy to have someone else back to make the tough decisions.

I rewatched the episode and I can answer my own question from an earlier post, if anyone cares - I asked where R5 came from.  He was outside waiting on the surface the whole time, hiding behind a rock near where they all landed initially.  He then used his rocket boosters to fly down to the base (which I think I did catch the flying part in my first viewing).  I'm pretty sure he's in Mando's N-1 at the very end, too, but it was hard to tell.  He's either in there, or Grogu has his bubble back, but I think it was R5.

[Joimiaroxeu]

I kept waiting for one of the Dark Troopers to say, "Who are you?" and Din to reply, "I'm Batman." His helmet and armor had a Dark Knight vibe to me in those fight scenes.

R5 literally blew it out his ass at that mouse droid.

More on the sartorial front: with his black cape's red lining, it looked like Moff Gideon was a fan of Louboutin. 😉 He was way more stylish than Darth Vader.

Were those Pretorian Guards really going to kill a child? I know Gideon wanted Grogu's blood but he didn't need to be dead for that to happen.

Yep, Grogu holding the inferno at bay around himself, Bo, and Din was great CGI.

Daddy Mando, ya done good by Din Grogu. This is the way.

TWO years until Season 4? 😱

My favorite comment from reddit:

Quote

Just wish after the fireball they would have shown Gideon still standing, take a couple of steps, adjust his armor, have the camera slide to the left to reveal half of his face melted off and then he crumbles to the floor. This would have been a much more original death for the character.

Edited April 22, 2023 by Joimiaroxeu

[paigow]

5 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

More on the sartorial front: with his black cape's red lining, it looked like Moff Gideon was a fan of Louboutin. 😉 He was way more stylish than Darth Vader.

Favreau really went meta giving Gideon the same [sort of] demise as Gus 

[lucindabelle]

The capes look cool but make no sense. They are not efficient for flying, they’d catch on things fighting. For Roman’s they could also serve as blankets for soldiers. What is the point of the capes?

 

I loved Grogu’S ears going sadly down when the Armorer said he couldn’t be an apprentice.

if they had farms, why were they starving?

[Peace 47]

9 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

As for the Din and Grogu storyline, it seemed kind of anticlimactic for Din to officially adopt Grogu. They were already a clan of two, so this seems like it was just a formality. We never saw Din torn about whether or not he could be a father or denying that he could have that role. He's been accepting people calling Grogu his kid for a long time. It didn't seem like it was any kind of culmination of an internal struggle that led to him finally making a big decision (like, for instance, the season finale of Andor, when Andor finally accepted something he'd been running from all season).

I have similar complicated feelings about the scene and while I will also definitely take it at face value as an “awww” scene (and I would not trade the happy ending for anything different), I think that the adoption might have been better set up as more of an emotional climax to the whole season.  As has been noted on this board multiple times, Djarin (or Din, or whatever we are calling him) has been studiously avoiding referring to Grogu as his son, even as everyone around him did so in S2 and S3 (going all the way back to Ahsoka saying that Djarin is like a father to Grogu, and Djarin having no response whatsoever to that, as he holds Grogu super close because he doesn’t want to give him up to her …. 😭).

I think a through line that could have better bridged the journey to Djarin verbalizing his role was some outward acknowledgement to anyone this season (Bo, Armorer, Paz, Greef … R5, literally anyone) that in S1-S2, he couldn’t dare to think of himself as Grogu’s forever father because the situation was temporary (a continuation of the emotional beat in S2’s “The Tragedy,” when he is on his ship, trying to talk Grogu (and himself) into the idea that they need to part ways).  After it stopped being temporary, Djarin was then an apostate, so maybe he didn’t want to think about officially bringing Grogu into a dishonored family and back-burnered the thought, or maybe he didn’t fully get that Grogu was claiming him as “dad” and not just “Mandalorian tutor” when Grogu returned from Luke).  Then, after redemption, maybe he opted to focus on getting Nevarro straightened out as a safe place for the Mandalorians (where their children “could play in the sun”), so the status quo of being Grogu’s legal guardian was good enough until the finale, when it abruptly wasn’t.

So then there is the actual adoption scene.  Djarin reminds the Armorer that Grogu’s parent (singular) can give permission for apprenticeship.  By saying that, I think Djarin obviously already knows that he is it—the singular parent, and there should be no revelation.  The Armorer deliberately misunderstands him, referring to imaginary, far-off, possibly dead parents (plural), I think obviously to get Djarin to finally say the words for himself—that he is Grogu’s dad.  (Her emphatic “This is the Way” definitely read as, “it’s about damn time” — cue Duchess Lizzo).  And there, I would have liked just a little dialogue to acknowledge that while this is the first time he may have said it, it has never been hard to feel.

8 hours ago, Athena said:

I think the Darksaber is one of those things that mean a lot to certain fans and to certain characters, but it wasn't that important to our leads. Din didn't care about it and found it both literally and figuratively heavy to wield.  

I certainly did not care about the Darksaber as an item of lore, but I did kind of care about it in the context of what it was set up to represent vis-a-vis Djarin in The Book of Boba Fett.  He couldn’t wield it properly because of (basically) clinical depression over (1) losing his kid and (2) losing his connection to … his culture, the creed, his place in the world, etc.  He got the kid back and handled the Darksaber a little better, but there was certainly no mastery of it. So the hero of the story didn’t symbolically conquer whatever fears or reservations the Darksaber represented in the story.  And it’s not that he needed to successfully have done that, but by handing it over, there was no reckoning with it.

[Dobian]

Too bad the handle of the Dark Sabre was made from cheap molded plastic.  You would think that the greatest sword in the galaxy would be housed in something a little more sturdy.

[paigow]

4 minutes ago, Dobian said:

Too bad the handle of the Dark Sabre was made from cheap molded plastic.  

O.G. Vizla probably only had enough Beskar for his helmet at the time...

[Guest]

11 hours ago, Athena said:

I agree about the lack of emotional resolution in this episode. Din and Grogu spend the whole season with these Mandalorians and we don't even get them to say "See ya later," after it's all done. I really hope we see more pay off in S4 or the other shows.

Filoni and Favreau do a better job than the movies generally with character development and dialogue, but I was reminded this episode that this universe has stoic and inexpressive characters. We don't even see the face of the protagonist and the other one does not talk at all. There is heart to this show with Din and Grogu but they are conservative with what the characters can express. Other than anger or violence with action, there's a lot of restraint to how everyone acts and is directed to act. There is very little rumination or emotional reflection of events. Unfortunately, I think this is an inherent theme of SW itself. 

I completely agree. I really frustrated me because we saw them handle similar elements well with Sabine in Rebels. There were several moments of Bo with the darksaber that were deliberately reminiscent of Sabine with the darksaber but they left out all of the emotional weight.  

[raven]

5 hours ago, Peace 47 said:

I certainly did not care about the Darksaber as an item of lore, but I did kind of care about it in the context of what it was set up to represent vis-a-vis Djarin in The Book of Boba Fett. 

This post is a good articulation as to how I felt about how it was handled within the context of the show(s).  Din didn't care about its representation to others, but he is a Mandalorian; "weapons are part of my religion".   He attempts to use it on a job as another tool of the trade and hurts himself.  When he's training with the Armorer, she tells him that his body is strong but his mind is distracted (the audience knows because he wants to see Grogu).  The premise is out there that he could get better with it; I expected some future competency with it, as his mind became more settled.

In S2, Bo is all about the Darksaber - it is her quest and is presumably why she has two other Mandalorians with her - we find out in this season they left her because she didn't have it, IIRC.   Gideon gloats about its importance to her and she refuses to take it from Din, even as he says he yields, because of what the lore says.   When she finally accepts it in S3, she is not the one who brings up the why/how - it is Din.   So did she not think of it, tho she's obviously the expert user of the weapon, we saw that - or did she not want conflict with Din?

So, for me, the Darksaber was put forth by the show as important in several ways; then destroyed by the show in a kind of goofy way and it was decided it was never really that important after all.  The characters only got there because the show wanted to dispense of the magic sword, not because of any internal/external debates or character growth.

For me, this is an example of my overall problem with S3; too much time was spent on pointless meandering, rather than exploring some interesting story lines, which could have brought Din and Grogu full circle in a more satisfying way. 

Edited April 23, 2023 by raven

[Athena]

3 hours ago, raven said:

In S2, Bo is all about the Darksaber - it is her quest and is presumably why she has two other Mandalorians with her - we find out in this season they left her because she didn't have it, IIRC.   Gideon gloats about its importance to her and she refuses to take it from Din, even as he says he yields, because of what the lore says.   When she finally accepts it in S3, she is not the one who brings up the why/how - it is Din.   So did she not think of it, tho she's obviously the expert user of the weapon, we saw that - or did she not want conflict with Din?

So, for me, the Darksaber was put forth by the show as important in several ways; then destroyed by the show in a kind of goofy way and it was decided it was never really that important after all.  The characters only got there because the show wanted to dispense of the magic sword, not because of any internal/external debates or character growth.

This is why I wish there was more emotional reflection on this show which the last episode tried to do when she discussed the surrender. She knows the power of the DS as a leadership symbol and now we know she surrendered it which is why she wanted it back in S2. However, she does not want to come into conflict with Din. I think she considered him an ally by end of S2 and they became friends in this series. She finally seemed over retaking thing between the seasons as she's jaded now having spent her whole life trying to unite and lead her people.

I think the show sorta saw it as goofy too because one of the tribes didn't care about it and that it was just a weapon. At least now they can start a New Age as it were and rebuild it or find another symbol the leadership position.

I did see some character growth or progression through the DS with respect to Bo-Katan but these shows aren't great about showing the emotional heft.

 

7 hours ago, Dani said:

I completely agree. I really frustrated me because we saw them handle similar elements well with Sabine in Rebels. There were several moments of Bo with the darksaber that were deliberately reminiscent of Sabine with the darksaber but they left out all of the emotional weight.  

This brings me back to the fact that they low key rehashed Bo's storyline from Rebels. I watched some of Rebels for context.

Bo rejected the DS the first time it was offered to her Rebels and only took it because Sabine told her she was a capable leader and the Clans united to follow her. So basically what happened in this show too. A lot of people who watch The Mandalorian won't know that but interesting to see her having to be given it again. At least it makes sense why she feels so over it between the seasons. But yes, they again missed the emotional weight of it.

In any case, I really hope they have Sabine and Bo-Katan together in live action.

[Shanna Marie]

18 hours ago, Athena said:

I think the Darksaber is one of those things that mean a lot to certain fans and to certain characters, but it wasn't that important to our leads. Din didn't care about it and found it both literally and figuratively heavy to wield. The Armorer seemed indifferent about it and his covert didn't take orders from Din or anyone who had it. It was important to Bo's faction but more like an excuse and as a symbol (see how Din pushed them to accept it through the loophole). Even Bo-Katan has mixed feelings about it considering recent history and she clearly didn't want it in Rebels the first time or even here after Din won it in S2.

But it was shown to be important to one of the factions of Mandalorians. Just two episodes ago, Bo-Katan only won leadership of the group because of Din's "well, actually, she's the rightful holder because she beat the person who took it from me." Before that, they were questioning her even after she beat Axe in combat. So, if it's no longer important to them, we needed to see that onscreen. We don't even know if they know it was destroyed. By the same logic that made her the rightful holder, if Gideon destroyed it and then he was killed because of the ship Axe crashed into the base, does that make Axe the leader?

It's just weird that something that as recently as two episodes ago was considered important was abruptly brushed off, so that we don't even know what anyone thinks about what happened to it. For generations, among certain groups of Mandalorians this was the key to leadership. Then it got destroyed and we didn't get to see the reaction to that or what they decided about it going forward. We didn't get to see the "that saber doesn't really matter because you proved to be the true leader in battle who brought us back to Mandalore" scene.

3 hours ago, raven said:

So, for me, the Darksaber was put forth by the show as important in several ways; then destroyed by the show in a kind of goofy way and it was decided it was never really that important after all.  The characters only got there because the show wanted to dispense of the magic sword, not because of any internal/external debates or character growth.

Yes, this exactly. If they decided it was never important, we needed to see that on the screen because it's a major change. Bo-Katan lost her crew because she didn't win the Darksaber, then got them back because she did. She would have lost to Gideon if Din and Grogu hadn't shown up and if the ship hadn't crashed into the base. Did Bo-Katan always feel she was still the rightful leader and the saber was only a formality that mattered to some people, or did she believe in it? What does it mean to her that this thing was destroyed? Did she learn a Valuable Lesson that real leadership is leadership that leads to victory, not owning a particular gizmo, so that now she has confidence to command respect? Did the other Mandalorians learn that she was able to unite the clans and lead them to victory, so the saber doesn't matter? Or do they even know? Did she duct tape the hilt together and hang it on her belt, so that it's just a symbol? Whatever it was, we needed to see it.

[paigow]

47 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

Did Bo-Katan always feel she was still the rightful leader and the saber was only a formality that mattered to some people, or did she believe in it?

Ideally, a Force Sensitive person would hold the Darksaber and rule Mandalore. Absent that, it is like a variant of Sword In The Stone  or Mjolnir rules apply. So she believed that a combination of birthright and Darksaber ownership legitimized any leader, but felt guilty / unworthy of claiming it.

[cmfran]

Moff Gideon's new armor is badass looking. Love it. One thing I've noticed is that the characters that wear helmets from time to time all have the transistor radio-style voice when the helmet is on, but the voices with villains (like Gideon) are processed in a noticeably more distorted, static-y way. Kylo Ren's was the same. It's a nice detail.

Also love Grogu's "yes/no" buttons. Those have made me laugh more than once.

[Hanahope]

No one cared about the Dark saber in Clone Wars.  Pre had it, but never said he was Mandalore’s ruler because of it.  He never said where he got it either her.  Yes Maul took it, but apparently didn’t mean much to him either, he didn’t use it or have it when Ashoka defeated him.  And nobody asked where it was.  

[paigow]

4 hours ago, Hanahope said:

No one cared about the Dark saber in Clone Wars....

Yes... Finding it became a side quest for Sabine during Rebels 

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Hanahope said:

Pre had it, but never said he was Mandalore’s ruler because of it.  He never said where he got it either her.

He said that it was stolen by his ancestors during the fall of the Old Republic from the Jedi Temple. When Maul killed Pre Vizsla he does say that it gave him the right to lead Death Watch. I really wish the show had explained how the Bo’s group and the Children of the Watch was connected to Death Watch. I think it was a wasted opportunity to not expand on the history of Mandalore. 

It’s the only time I’ve though the show did a bad job of explaining the necessary information from the animated series. Too much relies of the audience knowing the backstory from Clone Wars and Rebels. 

[MissLucas]

2 hours ago, Dani said:

It’s the only time I’ve though the show did a bad job of explaining the necessary information from the animated series. Too much relies of the audience knowing the backstory from Clone Wars and Rebels. 

Well, there was the other time when the Armorer gave a short lecture on Mandalorian history... in the Book of Boba Fett 🙄

[Kel Varnsen]

I was finally able to watch this one with my daughter today and mostly enjoyed it. I would have liked it if Grogu had done a bit more fighting to defend himself and his dad, and to go on a bit more of an offensive. Just to show how much he learned from Luke. Plus we have been always told that the only options for force people are either doing good by being a monk like loner Jedi or going evil and being a Sith. It would be interesting to see if someone could use the force and follow the Mandalorian code and not turn to the dark side. Since that seems just as strong as the Jedi code but at least lets you have family and friends.

One thing that always makes me laugh is the crappy Empire IT security. Like I work from home and to log my computer into the work system I need a work authorized computer and two different passwords. Meanwhile for the empire any droid even one that that is at least 10 years old using connection technology that is decades older can connect to your system and access anything.

Also I am glad the dark saber is broken as I find that thing dumb.

 

[DoctorAtomic]

28 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

I would have liked it if Grogu had done a bit more fighting to defend himself and his dad, and to go on a bit more of an offensive.

I certainly was ready for Grogu to wreck those guards. I think we'd need to know more about what Grogu actually learned from Luke though. Maybe he only focused on defense. This is Luke on the heels of redeeming his father and defeating the Empire. He might be just more zen at this point in his life and not teaching offensive tactics. 

Grogu also didn't want to fight the other kid with the dart guns, and he broke up the chess fight when Bo said no one could interfere. He might just not be coming from an offensive baseline. 

29 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

Plus we have been always told that the only options for force people are either doing good by being a monk like loner Jedi or going evil and being a Sith.

Not exactly. Ahsoka walked away from the Jedi order, and she's certainly not Sith. I'd actually say she'd be a better teacher for Grogu than Luke because she saw what taking away family and forgoing emotional attachments did. Which she told Mando, but she also said he shouldn't be trained formally. Really though, Ahsoka has way more training and experience than Luke ever did. Luke beat an old Vader; she basically held him to a stalemate in his prime. 

I get from the show that Mando and Grogu need to navigate their own way. That's fine. At the same time, you're showing that the equivalent of a 2 year old is powerful enough to hold off a jet fuel explosion for three people. That's invariably has to manifest. 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

Plus we have been always told that the only options for force people are either doing good by being a monk like loner Jedi or going evil and being a Sith.

There have been others but so far only Ahsoka and Chirrut Îmwe have been introduced in live action. I’m guess that the Ahsoka show is going to open that door wider which hopefully will impact Grogu. 

1 hour ago, DoctorAtomic said:

Luke beat an old Vader; she basically held him to a stalemate in his prime. 

I agree that Ahsoka has a lot more training than Luke but those two fights were only five years apart. 

[Fool to cry]

So I enjoyed it a lot more on rewatching now that I didn't have the theories about what I thought would happen. Reading the negative reviews of the finale it's clear a lot of adult fans have outgrown Star Wars, at least anything that's like the pure fun of first movie and are ashamed of it. As posters here call it the "pew pew" side of the franchise of Star Wars.

Also as with the Jedi there is a dislike from critics to Mandalorians now that they are shown to be a strict devoit thing. So much of the attitude IMO is really "I can't imagine myself as a Jedi/Mandalorian anymore because they have stupid rules I would never obey because I'm both an intellectual free spirit  who thinks organized religion is BS!"  😂

[Uncle JUICE]

On 4/23/2023 at 1:11 AM, Dobian said:

Too bad the handle of the Dark Sabre was made from cheap molded plastic.  You would think that the greatest sword in the galaxy would be housed in something a little more sturdy.

Like a beskar of quality the likes of which hadn't been seen in a thousand years? Because I'm pretty sure either the Armorer or Bo Katan described it that way in canon. The dark saber turned out to be a major narrative problem for this show. Mishandled at every turn, right up to the end. Let Bo Katan decide what happens to it, not Gideon. 

 

Can anyone remind me why Gideon's got such a boner for Mando culture? Is he of Mando descent, perhaps outcast for joining the Imperial ranks? I get that he wanted mandalorian blood for its warrior qualities, but he moves his base there, he has a helmet that's basically from the Maul era, I just wish among the many minor tweaks that could have been made in this season, this explanation was among them. I guess "power" isn't a good enough motivation for a villain for me. 

[FnkyChkn34]

1 hour ago, Uncle JUICE said:

Can anyone remind me why Gideon's got such a boner for Mando culture? Is he of Mando descent, perhaps outcast for joining the Imperial ranks? I get that he wanted mandalorian blood for its warrior qualities, but he moves his base there, he has a helmet that's basically from the Maul era, I just wish among the many minor tweaks that could have been made in this season, this explanation was among them. I guess "power" isn't a good enough motivation for a villain for me. 

He wanted Grogu's blood because he's force sensitive.  I think he likes the Mandalorian culture because they are supposed to be some of the best fighters/warriors, and have beskar.  Moff Gideon wanted the beskar.

[Uncle JUICE]

3 minutes ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

He wanted Grogu's blood because he's force sensitive.  I think he likes the Mandalorian culture because they are supposed to be some of the best fighters/warriors, and have beskar.  Moff Gideon wanted the beskar.

Yeah, that part I got, but I don't know, I guess I thought he went Mando-crazy, like one of those people my parents were friends with in the early 80's who were really into Japanese culture, like they wore kimonos on the regular, had Japanese characters framed on their wall, didn't know what they meant, ate all their meals with chopsticks, even though their names were like James and Amy Bukowski. Gideon seemed to really want to BE mandalorian. I don't know if the show ever explained why. 

[FnkyChkn34]

1 hour ago, Uncle JUICE said:

Yeah, that part I got, but I don't know, I guess I thought he went Mando-crazy, like one of those people my parents were friends with in the early 80's who were really into Japanese culture, like they wore kimonos on the regular, had Japanese characters framed on their wall, didn't know what they meant, ate all their meals with chopsticks, even though their names were like James and Amy Bukowski. Gideon seemed to really want to BE mandalorian. I don't know if the show ever explained why. 

Oh, yes, I see what you mean.  If there's a deeper reason, then I don't know it either! 😉

[Kel Varnsen]

14 hours ago, Dani said:

There have been others but so far only Ahsoka and Chirrut Îmwe have been introduced in live action. I’m guess that the Ahsoka show is going to open that door wider which hopefully will impact Grogu. 

You're right there have been those cases, but for the most part, especially in the main movies the idea has been that if you have the force and want to use it you either have to follow the way of the Jedi or temptation will take over and you will be sucked into the dark side. Which is kind of annoying. I hope they do more exploration about how a different belief system can also keep you from going full evil, but also lets you have loved ones.

[Dobian]

6 hours ago, Uncle JUICE said:

Like a beskar of quality the likes of which hadn't been seen in a thousand years? Because I'm pretty sure either the Armorer or Bo Katan described it that way in canon. The dark saber turned out to be a major narrative problem for this show. Mishandled at every turn, right up to the end. Let Bo Katan decide what happens to it, not Gideon. 

To fix the confusion, all Mandalorian episodes are being audio-edited to replace "Beskar" with "Bakelite."

[TV Anonymous]

What is the fuel capacity of the jet packs anyway? In Chapter 20 when they followed the raptor that snatched Ragnar, the jet packs ran out of fuel. In this episode, Axe flew around with the jet pack, went down to subterranean cave, then made an orbital flight from there, and still had fuel to safely escape from the ship.

[DoctorAtomic]

I think we decided that the capacity was 'enough for the plot'. 

[Uncle JUICE]

17 hours ago, TV Anonymous said:

What is the fuel capacity of the jet packs anyway? In Chapter 20 when they followed the raptor that snatched Ragnar, the jet packs ran out of fuel. In this episode, Axe flew around with the jet pack, went down to subterranean cave, then made an orbital flight from there, and still had fuel to safely escape from the ship.

THe jetpacks are confounding as hell. It's like when the Jedi forget they have command of the force. The problem you point out is just an unforced error by the writers. If you don't make running out of fuel a plot point in an earlier episode, no one cares about how much fuel a jet pack carries. Once you bring it into the equation, a certain segment of viewers (AKA hardcore fans like me) there's a giant ripple effect. Where do they get the fuel? The Mandos on The Land Before Time planet have no problem using their jetpacks to fight a space turtle, so there must be a SOURCE of the fuel on that planet, no? Where do they STORE the fuel, both on the planet and on their person (suddenly getting shot at while wearing a jetpack seems 100X more dangerous, since the fuel is volatile enough to apparently make a space filght from the surface)? Is there something inside the helmet that displays remaining fuel? Nothing would be a dumber way to die than to start a flight without enough fuel to finish it, right? If fuel isn't really an issue, then why use Gauntlets at all, can't you just drop out of orbit? 

I refuse to believe I'm the problem here. 

[FnkyChkn34]

2 hours ago, Uncle JUICE said:

THe jetpacks are confounding as hell. It's like when the Jedi forget they have command of the force. The problem you point out is just an unforced error by the writers. If you don't make running out of fuel a plot point in an earlier episode, no one cares about how much fuel a jet pack carries. Once you bring it into the equation, a certain segment of viewers (AKA hardcore fans like me) there's a giant ripple effect. Where do they get the fuel? The Mandos on The Land Before Time planet have no problem using their jetpacks to fight a space turtle, so there must be a SOURCE of the fuel on that planet, no? Where do they STORE the fuel, both on the planet and on their person (suddenly getting shot at while wearing a jetpack seems 100X more dangerous, since the fuel is volatile enough to apparently make a space filght from the surface)? Is there something inside the helmet that displays remaining fuel? Nothing would be a dumber way to die than to start a flight without enough fuel to finish it, right? If fuel isn't really an issue, then why use Gauntlets at all, can't you just drop out of orbit? 

I refuse to believe I'm the problem here. 

This is similar to my question of how is the Armorer always able to set up a new forge everywhere she goes?  Her forges aren't just fires or ovens that presumably could be built anywhere, and what fuels the forge?  I guess that doesn't matter... let's just build them in sewers and caves and anywhere we please...

[Kel Varnsen]

1 hour ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

This is similar to my question of how is the Armorer always able to set up a new forge everywhere she goes?  Her forges aren't just fires or ovens that presumably could be built anywhere, and what fuels the forge?  I guess that doesn't matter... let's just build them in sewers and caves and anywhere we please...

Isn't all fuel in Star Wars basically magic? I don't recall Han ever saying they need they needed to stop somewhere to fuel up the Falcon.

[MissLucas]

SW Rebels had at least one episode dedicated to the 'Ghost' running out of fuel and IIRC the question of fuel (and other supplies) was an occasional plot point in earlier episodes especially.

But yeah, the Jetpacks seem to be fuelled by plot magick.

[Uncle JUICE]

2 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

Isn't all fuel in Star Wars basically magic? I don't recall Han ever saying they need they needed to stop somewhere to fuel up the Falcon.

I'm totally fine never thinking about where they get their fuel...until you make Han Solo say "we're almost out of gas," which breaks the magic they're relying on. It's not a problem until the writers make it one, then ignore that it WAS one, that's all I'm saying. You're inviting the questions as a writer that way. 

[Affogato]

12 hours ago, Uncle JUICE said:

THe jetpacks are confounding as hell. It's like when the Jedi forget they have command of the force. The problem you point out is just an unforced error by the writers. If you don't make running out of fuel a plot point in an earlier episode, no one cares about how much fuel a jet pack carries. Once you bring it into the equation, a certain segment of viewers (AKA hardcore fans like me) there's a giant ripple effect. Where do they get the fuel? The Mandos on The Land Before Time planet have no problem using their jetpacks to fight a space turtle, so there must be a SOURCE of the fuel on that planet, no? Where do they STORE the fuel, both on the planet and on their person (suddenly getting shot at while wearing a jetpack seems 100X more dangerous, since the fuel is volatile enough to apparently make a space filght from the surface)? Is there something inside the helmet that displays remaining fuel? Nothing would be a dumber way to die than to start a flight without enough fuel to finish it, right? If fuel isn't really an issue, then why use Gauntlets at all, can't you just drop out of orbit? 

I refuse to believe I'm the problem here. 

This is similat to the question raised by Grogu. Doesn’t make sense really. But cute. I assume there has to be some sort of nuclear fusion. What with all the faster than light travel. Running out of fuel wouldn’t be the same if they were running on space gasoline. 

Edited April 27, 2023 by Affogato

[meep.meep]

On 4/26/2023 at 12:06 PM, MissLucas said:

 

But yeah, the Jetpacks seem to be fuelled by plot magick.

To me, it's the jetpacks + the stupid space capes.  Why don't they burn up?

[lucindabelle]

Maybe the fuel can be photo synthesized?

[paigow]

 Something is needed o deal with any Sith Lord who shows up next. Another Beskar Spear or any colour Saber.

[TaurusRose]

On 4/19/2023 at 11:19 PM, Zaffy said:

Last scene was the best thing of the whole season and this is what this series should be about and not the whole mess we had this season.
I hate it that I needed to watch another series to understand how Grogu got back with Mando. I even tried to read on line the story of Mandalor and I got a headache.  
And to be honest, I really did not care for Mandalorians and their planet and  I do not find them and their way interesting at all, they are creepy!
Yes, our main hero is a Mandalorian and follows "the way", but the whole appeal of the first season was how a monolithic and boring tough fighter had to get softer, and babysit and bond with Grogu. Those two are the whole series.
It is not Bo Katan, it is not various evil empire warlords, it is the Dins!

However  I think the major issue here, is Pedro's availability. The guy basically does a voice over..
Anyway, if this episode was the series finale I am absolutely ok with it.

I'm so glad I waited to watch the entire series, didn't sniff out spoilers, and came here after the whole season dropped so I could binge it. I don't have any of the complaints most posters do. I'm not a hardcore (or even a softcore) SW fan. I judge "The Mandalorian" strictly on its merits and find it mostly entertaining.

I thought the episode with Din and Bo playing detectives was a lot of fun. I warmed up to Bo-Katan, didn't mind her being prominently featured this season, and enjoyed all the dogfights and laser battles. I didn't know that was Lizzo, but she did an excellent job in her role, and as someone else mentioned, Jack Black wasn't nearly as annoying as I usually find him. Christopher Lloyd was almost unrecognizable, and I spent a considerable amount of time trying to figure out who he was.

I'm glad the situation with Mando being an outcast was wrapped up quickly. Ditto for the Mandalorians returning to their home planet. I don't understand the concern about PP's availability or his body in the suit. He is Din Djarin for me. End of story. Also, not calling him Djarin ever. If Din is his surname, fine. That's what I will continue to call him. It's not uncommon for people IRL to be called exclusively by their surnames.

Other personal non-starters: I don't care if Mando ever takes off his helmet. For me, that's the cool thing about him. And finally, all the bitching about Grogu is mind-boggling. He's always been an integral part of the show. To harp on his presence is kind of annoying. If he bugs you that much (universal you) and puts a massive ding in your enjoyment of the show, maybe you should find something else to watch. Just saying. 

[FnkyChkn34]

3 hours ago, TaurusRose said:

And finally, all the bitching about Grogu is mind-boggling. He's always been an integral part of the show. To harp on his presence is kind of annoying. If he bugs you that much (universal you) and puts a massive ding in your enjoyment of the show, maybe you should find something else to watch. Just saying. 

I agree with everything that you said, but especially this part.  Grogu has been the star/co-star since the first episode.  If a viewer doesn't like him, why are they watching?

[Rushmoras]

Well, kinda late to the party, but completed S3 a while ago, and... let's just say I will not be watching Season 4, if there will be any (unless, they ditch Pedro and the animatronic puppet, and leave Vicky from Longmire).

[WendyCR72]

9 hours ago, Rushmoras said:

Well, kinda late to the party, but completed S3 a while ago, and... let's just say I will not be watching Season 4, if there will be any (unless, they ditch Pedro and the animatronic puppet, and leave Vicky from Longmire).

No way will Grogu [the puppet] be ditched. That character has been a merchandising goldmine.

Not sure if there will be a S4, since Pedro Pascal is so in demand these days, but if not, it left off at a good ending, more or less.

[Affogato]

20 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

No way will Grogu [the puppet] be ditched. That character has been a merchandising goldmine.

Not sure if there will be a S4, since Pedro Pascal is so in demand these days, but if not, it left off at a good ending, more or less.

Pedro Pascal’s work is voice over, except the one time per season he removes his helmet. It is easy money for an actor, particularly as the character doesn’t talk or emote a lot. Also the show can be used to try out parts of the star wars universe without committing. 
 

i think Grogu is indispensable, though. 

[FnkyChkn34]

I vaguely recall that Jon Favreau or Dave Filoni said that season 4 is already written?  Plus I think that the movie is still in the works, so they need another season of a few shows to lead up to the movie.  As long as Pedro will do the voiceover work, this show is probably here for awhile.  The harsh critics are in the very small minority; most people like it.  

ETA:  Pedro is basically popular and in demand because of this show.  Yes, he was fantastic in GoT, but this put him on the map.  He seems like a guy that isn't going to bite the hand that fed/feeds him.  

Edited December 28, 2023 by FnkyChkn34