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S02.E13: I Almost Prayed

thewhiteowl

By thewhiteowl
in Defiance [V]

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SimoneS

SimoneS

(edited)

I thought that was just an awful finale. I hung in there, but what a terrible way to go out if the show is cancelled. The only enjoyable moment for me was when Berlin laughed at their lives getting saved at the last minute. There were some touching moments like when Tommy died and Berlin's reaction to seeing his body, but the rest of the show was dire. The CGI was beyond horrific. I don't know what they were thinking using so much of it.

Edited by SimoneS
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mustbekarma

mustbekarma

I loved the finale. Talk about a game changer for the world. The most powerful city on each side is taken out. In a way, that could be war, or people will be so busy surviving they won't bother fighting, yet. I loved how Nolan would not leave Irisa. Berlin really grew on me this episode. Her laughing was almost the best moment in the episode for me.

 

Nolan wasn't kidding about living together and dying together.

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Chaos Theory

Chaos Theory

I may love the Tarrs but Amanda is by far my favorite character.  I have loved her story arc this season.  MEXICAN STANDOFF!  Wait where did she get sniper training...oh who cares I love fatalistic Amanda.  But girl no amount of scotch is going to get the faste of Pottinger out of your mouth now.  

 

I loved the finale.  I loved the fact that everyone went against Nolan's idea instead of bobble heading the Great Cowboy Nolan and he had to work for what he wanted.even against his biggest fan Amanda who usually sides with him on most things.  

 

I am glad Berlin survived the season and I hope the show gets renewed so I can see more of her next season.

 

Ditto to Pilar I look forward to the battle between the Tarrs and the McCulleys.  

 

Really good season finale even though I never really cared about the Irisa stuff the other stuff was interesting and I really enjoyed the season as a whole.  

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wanderingstar

wanderingstar

For once, I enjoyed Berlin. Her charging over to that E-Rep soldier (or was he a prison guard) was the most awesome she's been all season. 

 

I feel so conflicted about the Irisa stuff. The Kaziri story wasn't my favorite, so I welcomed its conclusion. But I still feel like Irisa was almost...not there this season - even when she was involved in other storylines (which wasn't all that often). I get that that was a function of her story, but it made me lose touch with the character.

 

I hate that Tommy's dead and that Irisa killed him. Hate it.

 

What's Pilar's deal? Is she really working with the Votans? And where is she taking Alak & Christie?

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thuganomics85

thuganomics85

Since this show is called Defiance, I know it's mainly about the adventures in that town, but if we do get another season (I hope so), I so can't wait for The Adventures of Rafe, Stahma, and Datak!  Those three should make for one hell of a road-trip!  Where exactly is Pilar taking Christie and Alak, since Quentin said her peaceful sanctuary talk was a lie?  Is she just simply crazy, or is there something bigger going on.

 

Interesting that, this time around, it was Nolan possibly risking people's lives to save Irisa, while Amanda was the one to try and stop it. It reminded me of Amanda willing to do that for Kenya, and Nolan stopping her.  I know there were differences in that Nolan had an actual plan and it worked, but I still think those two have more in common then they want to admit.  Well, except when it comes to Pottinger.  Nolan hates his ass, while Amanda falls for him.  Sigh.  I hope she finds out soon, and he pays for it.

 

Doc Yewll continues to be a survivor.  Got her charges dropped, and it looks like she'll be back in her office.  I wouldn't have it any other way!

 

Berlin is looking rough, but I'm glad she's still alive.  But between Tommy's death and the E-Rep guy almost executing her, I have to think she is going to be changed by all this.

 

So, basically, The Kaziri does cause some major damage; New York is gone; but Nolan and Miko/Robin Dunne managed to bring Irisa back after that.  She, understandably, feels like shit, but Nolan is able to convince her to calm the fuck down, and save Defiance.  The plan works, but now Nolan and Irisa are trapped in one of those pods, way, way underground.  Yep, that's a season finale move, right there!  I do wonder if Miko escaped, and if he'll tell anyone about them.  It looked like Sukar's pod was still intact, so I guess he's OK for now. 

 

I hope the show comes back, but you never know what the guys in SyFy are thinking.

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BestestAuntEver

BestestAuntEver

Since this show is called Defiance, I know it's mainly about the adventures in that town, but if we do get another season (I hope so), I so can't wait for The Adventures of Rafe, Stahma, and Datak!

 

 

This.  I kept thinking they have to renew the show so I can see how the Tarrs & Poppa McCulley kick ass. These parents are going to save their babies & they aren't going to take prisoners. I don't think Pilar knows that Christie isn't going to go down without a fight.

 

I mostly liked the show but man there were some moments that dragged. I can't believe Tommy actually died.  I like the Nolan/Irisa relationship but haven't liked 90% of the Kaziri story line. I don't care for Amanda or Pottinger. Berlin laughing after being saved by the Tarrs due to a family emergency cracked me up.

 

Doc Yewll has 9 lives.

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mjc570

mjc570

(edited)

I have to admit that I think this show has become way too predictable. Of course Amanda was not going to shoot stahma and Datak while they were tied up. Of course the terraforming threat would be averted, with at least one major city terra formed so there could be some (bad) CGI. Of course the only black guy dies. Even Doc Yewell lost her snark. I guess I'm just disappointed because I thought the season started really well.

I'll be back next season only for thenStahma/Datak/Rafe road trip. I do love all 3 of them.

Edited by mjc570
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BooksRule

BooksRule

When I first started watching this show, I thought that both Stahma and Datak were really creepy and didn't like either of them very much.  I still think they are a little creepy, but they've become two of my favorite characters.  They are really complex characters--lots of layers.  I loved their shouting match when they were chained in the silo.  Speed marriage counseling!

 

Loved Doc Yewll's cap with flaps.

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GaT

GaT

Whoa, Stahma cleaned toilets & gave Rafe a blow job? I somehow can't see Stahma cleaning toilets. I can see her giving blow jobs though.

 

I liked the special effects in the beginning, were those all new species?

 

I don't understand what Pilar is doing, why did she kidnap Christie & Alak? What was the "problem" that Rafe referred to & what doesn't Christie remember? I have a feeling Pilar is not all the concerned about the baby.

 

Why is Dr Yewll protecting Pottinger? She was already caught, why didn't she give him up too?

 

Personally, I wouldn't have cared if Irisa died, in fact, after being stuck with this stupid Kaziri plot all season, I am over Irisa.

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sjohnson

sjohnson

I don't know why Nolan didn't emphasize that shooting Irisa wouldn't kill her, so planting the fatal silver sand on the AI wasn't a slam dunk. Wait, on second thought, I realized that meant confessing he'd sat on his ass doing nothing about the Kaziri situation. It is fortunate that shoving the lawyer around was the perfect way to inspire his cooperation. The prospect of getting terraformed naturally would have no persuasive power whatsoever. Fortunately since there was no chance that Defiance would be destroyed, there was no unpleasant tension over how the guy might react.

 

I wondered when Nolan ever taught Irisa to do what was right?  

 

Nolan in stasis means time jump! 

 

Sergeants don't hit captains in any self-respecting army of oppressors.

 

Where did Mercado come from? 

 

Datak and Stahma seem to have forgotten there are more forms of revenge than being shot in the head, which strikes me as completely stupid of them.

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loveigniting

loveigniting

Of course the one POC has to die.

 

Rafe, Quentin, and Christie are also POC, as are the actors.

 

But yeah, I hated Tommy succumbing to the most fatal of sci-fi tropes: being a black guy. I almost wanted Irisa to bring Tommy back, consequences be damned. I just really liked Tommy; he was fairly decent and I like those kind of characters even if they're not usually the most fascinating. 

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Grammaeryn

Grammaeryn

(edited)

I don't understand what Pilar is doing, why did she kidnap Christie & Alak? What was the "problem" that Rafe referred to & what doesn't Christie remember? I have a feeling Pilar is not all the concerned about the baby.

Pilar is/was bipolar and back in the day she went off her meds and tried to kill her children. Rafe caught her before it happened and that is why he sent Pilar away and made up a story about her death.

I liked the finale. My only disappointment is that Pottinger's creepitude hasn't been revealed.

Edited by Grammaeryn
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Chicago Redshirt

Chicago Redshirt

Re oral sex: Pilar might be guessing or lying. She might be referring to Stahma blowing Rafe back in the day, in which case she could have observed it, been told about it, or even participated in it.

 

Re: Yewll, a) she is a pathological liar who lies b) lying in this way gets her Pottinger's gratitude, which as she said, she expects him to repay and c) "the Votanis collective made me do it" is much more palatable for Amanda to swallow than "Creepy McCreeperson came up with the idea and made me do it."

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Black Knight

Black Knight

(edited)
I don't know why Nolan didn't emphasize that shooting Irisa wouldn't kill her, so planting the fatal silver sand on the AI wasn't a slam dunk.

 

Because Yewll's plan wasn't based on stopping Irisa by killing her. The silver whatevers would have destroyed the keys in Irisa, thus preventing the apocalypse - Irisa's death would have simply been an unfortunate side effect. Would Irisa herself have been resurrected this time, since the keys would have been destroyed? An interesting question, but not one that Nolan would want to bring up since everyone else would have been like, "So, this won't permanently kill Irisa anyway? Great! What are you complaining about then? We can destroy the keys and Irisa will still survive. So STFU and stay out of our way!"

 

I loved the finale. Talk about a game changer for the world. The most powerful city on each side is taken out.

 

Maybe this is something that has more impact in the videogame, if the videogame is set in the larger world. On the TV show itself, since it's set in Defiance, this is a big nothing because neither city had a significant concrete presence in Defiance, and both sides losing their most powerful city just cancel each other out. Power and operations will just shift to each side's second most powerful city. It just means that we'll hear that troops or political leaders or whoever are coming from LA (or whichever city is second, now first, most powerful) instead of NYC. Whatever, I'm just glad the boring Kaziri plot is wrapped up. I hope the show gets renewed because I'm looking forward to seeing how the other, far more interesting, stories play out.

Edited by Black Knight
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sjohnson

sjohnson

(edited)

Because Yewll's plan wasn't based on stopping Irisa by killing her. The silver whatevers would have destroyed the keys in Irisa, thus preventing the apocalypse - Irisa's death would have simply been an unfortunate side effect.... 

 

It just means that we'll hear that troops or political leaders or whoever are coming from LA (or whichever city is second, now first, most powerful) instead of NYC.... 

I was thinking of Irisa coming back before they manage to sprinkle her. They take the long distance shot, they run up, reach her and get shot back by PO'd Irisa. End of world.

 

I'm thinking the destruction of New York means they get to kick out the ERep without crowds of citizens talking uncomfortable things about rebellion and democracy etc., or crowds rebelling. Crowds take actors and you have to pay them more if they have lines. Thus we have a return to status quo, i.e., mayor Amanda and lawkeeper Nolan and very likely mines will be returned to Rafe.

Edited by sjohnson
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random chance

random chance

When I first started watching this show, I thought that both Stahma and Datak were really creepy and didn't like either of them very much.  I still think they are a little creepy, but they've become two of my favorite characters.  They are really complex characters--lots of layers.  I loved their shouting match when they were chained in the silo.  Speed marriage counseling!

The Tarrs made this show for me. I would gladly watch a spinoff of just the Tarrs moving to some new place and learning to cope with whatever.

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CoderLady

CoderLady

(edited)

The most memorable image out of so many in this episode is of slim, elegant Stahma, backlit, shooting the living shit out of the officer who'd been ordering the prisoner executions. Ah. And then Datak politely excusing them for spiriting Rafe away to deal with a family matter. Tarrs being Tarrs is always golden.

Edited by CoderLady
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Chaos Theory

Chaos Theory

(edited)

My favorite part was Rafe telling Berlin that their impending death by firing squad seemed quaint in this dangerous new world.

Bad CGI doesn't bother me if it is a good story.

Edited by Chaos Theory
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Iceman91

Iceman91

I'm really bothered by the timing of the sex scene between Amanda and Pottinger. They see the terraforming thingies explode, probably feel the ground shaking when the ship explodes too and their logical reaction is to go back to the brothel so they can have sex and only ask about Nolan and Irisa after?

 

As for the rest I'm disappointed that they haven't learned their lesson from last year's finale. Once again they push the best elements of the show aside (the Tarrs and the relationships between the characters) and concentrate on the worst with the  Kaziri and all the CGI shots. As for Irisa I wouldn't have minded if she died, she has been irrelevant most of the season being used only to advance the Kasiri's plot and I'm not looking forward to a season of angst about all the people she killed.

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shapeshifter

shapeshifter

How did Pilar know about Stahma performing fellatio on Rafe?   Weren't they the only two there?

That could be a rhetorical question.

...Loved Doc Yewll's cap with flaps.

Yes. I like to think it was just a costuming choice for effect, but there was snow in the woods through which Nolan was dragging Tommy.
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Izeinwinter

Izeinwinter

I am currently pondering just how deep the rabbit-holes go for various of these plot points. 

 

I mean: Did Pilar kidnap her daughter and inlaw because she wanted them away from Stahma and she's nuts, or is she operating under VC orders? if the second one, what exactly is their goal here - leverage over Stahma?

 

Am I supposed to take the Kaziri plot at face value or not? Because I don't see how Nolan and Irisa end up in a life-support bubble if the Kaziri is dead. 

I mean, net results of the events shown: VC and Erep - scratch capitals. No more ark-falls or razor rain, because the debris cloud got vaped. Kaziri presumed destroyed. That could all be a plot, or I could be engaging in epileptic trees reasoning. If this is all a case of an AI running game on everyone, on the upside Tommy is probably not all that dead. 

 

I actually found it quite difficult to believe Amanda /wouldn't/ just shoot the Tarr's. It doesn't fit too well with her willingness to put a bullet in Irisa later that very day either. 

 

I love Berlin to bits. 

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shapeshifter

shapeshifter

I actually found it quite difficult to believe Amanda /wouldn't/ just shoot the Tarr's. It doesn't fit too well with her willingness to put a bullet in Irisa later that very day either.

In both cases she explained her motivation was the good of the many at the expense of the few, so at least that's consistent.

However, since she also states she's experienced at shooting people, it does seem like she would have shot the Tarrs out of grief, anger, etc.

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sjohnson

sjohnson

Not shooting Stahma? Amanda's insistence on telling Stahma Kenya regarded her just as another customer could be interpreted as prompting jealousy in Amanda (no, not of a sexual nature.) We know Amanda was likely wrong and we also know that Amanda definitely had no clue as to how Kenya felt. But maybe somewhere inside there was a niggling doubt and Amanda couldn't kill Stahma because maybe there was a chance Kenya did love Stahma? And Amanda couldn't kill someone Kenya loved? I think Julie Benz' performance here was compatible with that but I'm not sure something so complex could be a goal. 

 

The script did rig the scene by decreeing that Amanda practically never looked at Datak directly. I wondered why Amanda never circled around but there's lots of inexplicable things the characters do on this show so I quit speculating.

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BungalowSummer

BungalowSummer

 

The script did rig the scene by decreeing that Amanda practically never looked at Datak directly. I wondered why Amanda never circled around but there's lots of inexplicable things the characters do on this show so I quit speculating.

 

Perhaps they blocked the scene this way to keep movement to a minimum and concentrate on the dialogue. I think that the real drama was between Amanda and Stahma anyway. They were becoming friends and sort-of confidantes; the betrayal was very deep, not only toward Kenya but also to Amanda. It was a trio of women brought together in tangled, vulnerable relationships. Datak was almost a superfluous bystander to what was going on between all these women. Once again, I am impressed by the willingness of this show to tell serious stories about women. It's hardly the usual thing in sci-fi shows.

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sjohnson

sjohnson

(edited)

Stahma risked everything to tell Amanda that Kenya was dead. So Amanda knew for a fact that Stahma had shown her genuine friendship as well as killing Kenya at Datak's orders. Amanda of course had disgraced herself by threatening Stahma's life rather than listen. It's not very consistent for her to fly into a rage when Stahma was doing a good thing and not when she was exposed for the bad thing. Also, the show indicated she blamed Stahma for the death of the subsitute Kenya, the arch falling girl. Of course she was wrong but when Datak himself starts confessing stuff it's hard to see how even Amanda can stop herself from rethinking. (Except that this season she's always wrong.) 

 

It's true that the harder choice was what to do with Stahma and that's where the suspence was. But really the no-brainer choice was to shoot Datak. And I really don't have any idea why she didn't except that it was in the script.

Edited by sjohnson
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ramble

ramble

Because if she kills the Tarrs the show becomes too boring to watch?

My kiddo said during the show that if they killed Stahma she was done for sure & if they killed Datek she would probably be out. I agree the Tarrs are stand outs in this show. Although I'm personally a sucker for the Nolan/Irisa relationship.
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johntfs

johntfs

(edited)

 

Although I'm personally a sucker for the Nolan/Irisa relationship.

 

Defiance first hooked me with Nolan coaxing Irisi into singing "Jackson" with him in the opening.  It was just a lovely father/daughter moment.  My love for the show was cemented in "The Serpent's Egg" when we see Nolan and Irisi's first hug.  Irisi might occasionally be a murderous, possessed, immortal alien psychopath, but she'll always be Nolan's little girl to him.

Edited by johntfs
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Chaos Theory

Chaos Theory

(edited)

If we are picking favorite characters mine has always been Amanda with Stahma a close second so i loved the confrontation scene between the two. I have been waiting for it all season and i was actually surprised they let it happen so soon. I find it believable that Amanda would let the Tarrs live because all she has left is Defiance and killing them would cause a war in the underworld. Just because she isn't pulling the trigger at that moment doesn't mean things are going to be all wine and roses for Amanda and Stahma in the future. Amanda still runs the Need/Want and still needs to pay protection to the Tarrs...talk about awkward.

Amanda has gotten alot darker in season 2 almost fatalistic. If there is a season 3 i would love to see her go darker still and maybe make a play for the Tarr's power. I mean she is straddling worlds on several fronts already. Pottinger or Nolan. The Earth Republic or The Need/Want. So maybe now justice or revenge. It is and interesting dilemma

Edited by Chaos Theory
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CletusMusashi

CletusMusashi

My kiddo said during the show that if they killed Stahma she was done for sure & if they killed Datek she would probably be out. I agree the Tarrs are stand outs in this show. Although I'm personally a sucker for the Nolan/Irisa relationship.

Me too, when they show that relationship. Too often they completely take it for granted, and let Nolan run around for an hour punching everybody while Irisa makes tentacle porn. The reason the Tarrs (and Rafe,) are so good isn't just that the actors are great. Which they are. It's that their storylines tend to be smaller in scale, and therefore easier not only to understand, but to believe. People dealing with people, instead of with ancient Votan space magic that can apparently do anything the writers want it to. Except explain why, if this nanobot technology is so old, there weren't immortal Votans up the wazoo coming over on the arks.

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Chaos Theory

Chaos Theory

(edited)

Christie doesn't know about the mental illness. The previous scene at Camp Revere between Rafe and Pilar had him tell Pilar (and us) that he told Christie that mom died a heroic death. And he is a man who would want his daughter to have good thoughts of her mom so i cam see him telling her how good and loving she was...and here Christie is in a house with Datak Tarr a man she despises. I can see her going with the untrue story of a hope and a dream over a man she knows is a vilolent sociopath.

Edited by Chaos Theory
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roctavia

roctavia

Defiance probably blows half its FX budget on body paint for the Tarrs.

 

Rewatching the other night, I was wondering if they decided the Castithans needed to be extremely white before they decided that bathing was going to be sort of a large part of their culture, or if they got to one of the first days of tub scenes and were like, well shit... this was a dumb idea :P   Can't be easy to keep all of that white non- toxic yet intact when they're sitting around in a tub all the time.

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BungalowSummer

BungalowSummer

(edited)

 

I was amazed at how quickly Christie trusted pilar after almost a life time away and a history of mental illness......

 

This seems to be the hallmark of the McCawley children: they are STUPID and GULLIBLE.

 

In defense of Christie, she never knew about Pilar's mental illness. Rafe told his children that their mother had been killed by raiders.

 

But...

 

Christie spent all season being duped and led around by the nose by Treasure Doll without a hint of suspicion. She seems to trust Stahma, of all people!

 

Quentin has been nothing but a dimwit from the moment he kept the gold key instead of getting rid of it like Rafe demanded. He then killed Nikki's henchman, Birch, to keep the key. (To be fair, he was also under the influence of the key at the time. But still...) Finally, he got snookered into trading the key to Nikki for information about Pilar. Nikki told him bluntly that Rafe shipped Pilar off because one morning he found her "buttering the children's toast with rat poison."

 

So armed with the truth, the a-hole Quentin decides Rafe is the bad guy, storms out, finds his bipolar mother and becomes a murderer and terrorist for the VC to get her free. He still on a spree of stupidity. I want Quentin to pay for his complete foolishness.

 

Even older brother Luke McCawley was an idiot. He paid with his life when he thought he could make a deal for the gold key and handle Ben Daris.

Edited by BungalowSummer
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raven

raven

 

Me too, when they show that relationship. Too often they completely take it for granted, and let Nolan run around for an hour punching everybody while Irisa makes tentacle porn.

Yeah the best parts of this show are the various relationships - the Tarrs, Nolan/Irisa, what we got to see of Nolan/Tommy :( , Doc Yewell with various people (and I loved how her virtual wife DID peek at the cards) - I am disappointed we didn't get more adventures with her and Datak, or Rafe and Datak, bringing Pilar into the mix, etc.

 

So Irisa's plot was kind of sidelined for me, I didn't think Irzu would end up terraforming the whole planet.  It's really the characters, even smaller part characters, the other key holder needed to stop Irzu (can't remember his name) and Mercado were good fits in the show.  If there's a S3 I hope they stick with that and not more end of the world plots.

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jhlipton

jhlipton

I was somewhat taken out by the stupid way the E-Reps handled Nolan.  Here is a man hey know to be strong, smart, ruthless and on a mission, he's not even in cuffs! That was pretty dumb, especially after the scene in the Mayor's office.  This show is more subtle than 24 (almost anything is), but still has a lot of "might makes right" and "bullying is OK if it gets results".  Yuchhhh.  I will never be on Nolans's side -- I wanted Amanda to kill Irisa just to teach his punk-ass a lesson.
 

When I first started watching this show, I thought that both Stahma and Datak were really creepy and didn't like either of them very much.


They are adorably creepy, aren't they?

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