Why Grammar Matters: A Place To Discuss Matters Of Grammar

[Quof]

47 minutes ago, EtheltoTillie said:

Yes, that one definitely works, and I guess I do use that all the time too without really thinking about it. 

That's because we lawyers (not "us lawyers") understand the value in using as few words as necessary to convey our meaning.   

[SoMuchTV]

25 minutes ago, supposebly said:

John works two hours more than I/me/I do.

 

11 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Since you're asking (thank you)…

• John works two hours more than me do.

…is not something I can recall hearing, unless maybe in some Pidgin English.
Is that what you were referencing?

If so, are there acknowledged rules of grammar for Pidgin English, as with, say, Ebonics?

I ask because if so, maybe I could get over my twitching when I encounter phrasing like “her brother, who is two years younger than her.”

I'm pretty sure the options were intended to be:

John works two hours more than (I) / (me) / (I do).

 

Edited August 31 by SoMuchTV
Double posted

[EtheltoTillie]

20 minutes ago, Quof said:

That's because we lawyers (not "us lawyers") understand the value in using as few words as necessary to convey our meaning.   

I actually learned that skill as a magazine editor.  I am constantly editing a lawyer colleague who started as a lawyer without a previous career.  He adds too many words, and I always have to delete them.  He was trained to put in too many words under the theory that you might be misunderstood or some contract would be breached or whatever. 

In journalism you can rely on understood words, particularly when you keep discussing the same topic.  Lawyers are taught they aren't permitted do that.  Here's one that you'd never do in journalism:  John Smith (hereinafter Mr. Smith)  . . . rest of sentence.  Or  John Smith ("Smith" or "Mr. Smith") rest of sentence.  They actually taught us this in legal writing class, but I have never used it after my law school days.  I vowed never to use the words hereinafter or therein in any document, but I have not always succeeded because of having to work with other lawyers at times. 

[supposebly]

50 minutes ago, SoMuchTV said:

I'm pretty sure the options were intended to be:

John works two hours more than (I) / (me) / (I do).

Yes, sorry about the typo!

But it's entirely possible that this is an option in the grammar of some of the many Englishes in the World.

https://www.oed.com/discover/world-englishes/

 

Edited August 31 by supposebly

[Ancaster]

On 8/31/2024 at 6:23 AM, Anduin said:

Makes perfect sense as it is. Doesn't need to go on, doesn't need to elaborate, doesn't need to explain any further. Short and to the point, unlike this response, which will drag on as long as I feel like typing, and perhaps even longer, and in worse shape as it gos along,

"Gos"?  Ironic in this particular thread.

[Milburn Stone]

57 minutes ago, Ancaster said:

"Gos"?  Ironic in this particular thread.

I choose to believe the irony was intended. 

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, Ancaster said:

"Gos"?  Ironic in this particular thread.

More like inevitable. 
Who among us has not?

[Ancaster]

"just don’t gift them anymore"

Another think coming.

[Anduin]

6 hours ago, Milburn Stone said:

I choose to believe the irony was intended. 

Never. I am dead serious at all time.

[JustHereForFood]

On 8/16/2024 at 3:07 AM, fairffaxx said:

A homicide victim was "funeralized" today, according to a local TV reporter.  By the way, we're in the San Francisco Bay Area, where people are generally well-educated (whatever you may think of our politics).  🙀

At least I hope they said that the victim was killed and not "unalived". Self-censorship is driving me mental.

[meep.meep]

On 8/31/2024 at 7:27 AM, shapeshifter said:

 

So just:

• …her brother, who is two years younger, will succeed their father as king.
  https://apnews.com/article/norway-princess-martha-louise-royal-wedding-shaman-durek-verret-569029b62d419529ed5bb881a47a5216

 

Why not: 

... her brother, two years younger, will succeed

or even:

...her younger brother will succeed

 

I spend a lot of time editing the scientific papers of my employees.  Many words need to be slashed.

succeed is a weird word

[Browncoat]

In my local newspaper today:  "It is better to air on the side of caution"  🙄

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, Browncoat said:

In my local newspaper today:  "It is better to air on the side of caution"  🙄

I do love my air purifier!🤣

[EtheltoTillie]

I saw a web version of a magazine that had a story about a heard of elephants. They do get pretty loud, I guess. 

Edited September 14 by EtheltoTillie

[annzeepark914]

Maybe these are the result of autocorrect (and poor proofreading)? 

[EtheltoTillie]

21 minutes ago, annzeepark914 said:

Maybe these are the result of autocorrect (and poor proofreading)? 

Can't be sure about autocorrect, but definitely poor proofreading.

[Zella]

I feel like autocorrect usually yields much more bizarre, garbled results than just an incorrect homophone, though I suppose if they're using talk to text that could explain it. 

[shapeshifter]

17 hours ago, EtheltoTillie said:

I saw a web version of a magazine that had a story about a heard of elephants. They do get pretty loud, I guess. 

And there's the prodigious ears — 
“The better to hear you with, my dear.”

 

13 hours ago, annzeepark914 said:

Maybe these are the result of autocorrect (and poor proofreading)? 

AI is bungling my Google searches and my Amazon review searches in a suspiciously similar manner. 
So I'm guessing Chat GPT is involved (or whatever the cool advertising content producers are using these days).

Edited September 15 by shapeshifter
“.” not “,”

[Sandman]

On 8/8/2024 at 12:09 PM, Browncoat said:

I just had a contractor reschedule an appointment for the second time.  They apologized for any "incontinence" that the rescheduling might cause.  🤣🤣

I guess that would depend on how long they kept you on the phone. 

… I’ll see myself out. 

[EtheltoTillie]

16 hours ago, Sandman said:

I guess that would depend on how long they kept you on the phone. 

… I’ll see myself out. 

Or if it was a plumber, and your toilet was broken.

Edited September 18 by EtheltoTillie

[Browncoat]

Happy National Punctuation Day!

[Absolom]

I think most of us know Geo News has some issues, but they kind of topped themselves with this word in a headline today: perdiciment.

 

[SweetieDarling]

There is a Fb site, South Philly, that is upset that the 76ers are getting a new stadium, yet Temple University has not been approved for their proposed stadium. I understand what they meant to say, and I probably shouldn't have laughed, but this struck me as funny

Quote

Third, the black clergy and NAACP objected to a stadium in a predominantly African American neighborhood but endorsed a project where virtually very little African Americans reside. Why?

 

What does their height have to do with it?

Edited October 2 by SweetieDarling

[Browncoat]

And they're virtual, too!

[shapeshifter]

48 minutes ago, SweetieDarling said:

There is a Fb site, South Philly, that is upset that the 76ers are getting a new stadium, yet Temple University has not been approved for their proposed stadium. I understand what they meant to say, and I probably shouldn't have laughed, but this struck me as funny

Quote

Third, the black clergy and NAACP objected to a stadium in a predominantly African American neighborhood but endorsed a project where virtually very little African Americans reside.

I was thinking this would be a good example of why it's important to use the correct descriptor — in this case, "few" instead of "little" — but this thread may be the only corner of the universe where this example can be shown without trolls climbing out from under every nook, cranny, rock, and bridge.

 

4 minutes ago, Browncoat said:

And they're virtual, too!

Same. But funnier. To me.

[nokat]

I have the book "Woe is I" and I need to reread it. I read a paper I did many years ago, and then thought who is this person who wrote this.

There is this subtlety and beauty to language that can get lost.

Edited October 3 by nokat

[Ancaster]

I like this thread, but I have to admit that sometimes I read posts and don't know what the hell the posters are talking about.  Maybe they are quoting something grammatically awkward or incorrect and failed to use quotation marks, or maybe they shouldn't be posting here?

[shapeshifter]

5 hours ago, Ancaster said:

I like this thread, but I have to admit that sometimes I read posts and don't know what the hell the posters are talking about.  Maybe they are quoting something grammatically awkward or incorrect and failed to use quotation marks, or maybe they shouldn't be posting here?

I may just be so sleep deprived that I'm hallucinating, but I think some recent, seemingly irrelevant posts were deleted.

[SVNBob]

Relevant:

But ignore Bryan Cranston...

[SVNBob]

Also relevant...sort of.  Because one of the Rules of the Internet is "If it exists, there's an xkcd about it.":

Alt-text:

Spoiler

The distinctive 'UCLA comma' and 'Michigan comma' are a long string of commas at the start and end of the sentence respectively.

 

[Ancaster]

I wish people knew how to use "any more" correctly (and as two words).  I just read "Netflix is impossible anymore".

Edited October 12 by Ancaster

[isalicat]

2 hours ago, Ancaster said:

I wish people knew how to use "any more" correctly (and as two words).  I just read "Netflix is impossible anymore".

That is hurting my brain! Not just the use of the "any more" but the whole sentence! Arrggggggggghhhhhhhh - what do they mean??? 😿

[EtheltoTillie]

3 hours ago, Ancaster said:

I wish people knew how to use "any more" correctly (and as two words).  I just read "Netflix is impossible anymore".

 

9 minutes ago, isalicat said:

That is hurting my brain! Not just the use of the "any more" but the whole sentence! Arrggggggggghhhhhhhh - what do they mean??? 😿

Yup, it's a twofold problem.  People do misuse anymore for any more and vice versa.  But as in Ancaster's other example, people just tag anymore on any sentence in some weird new idiom.   As in nothing is any good anymore is the meaning, but it's twisted.  It should be just Netflix is impossible now.

I have to find another example.  If I do, I will post. 

Edited October 12 by EtheltoTillie

[SoMuchTV]

16 minutes ago, isalicat said:

That is hurting my brain! Not just the use of the "any more" but the whole sentence! Arrggggggggghhhhhhhh - what do they mean??? 😿

Maybe this is a regional dialect thing, but that usage doesn’t seem especially new or unusual to me. People are so cranky anymore!  (Just kidding, but that’s how I’m not surprised to hear it used.)

I guess I thought the complaint was more about someone saying “do you want anymore nachos?” (Although they’d have to write it out before you knew they were spelling it that way.)

Oh well, any more of this discussion will make me hesitate to comment anymore. 

[Anela]

8 hours ago, SoMuchTV said:

Maybe this is a regional dialect thing, but that usage doesn’t seem especially new or unusual to me. People are so cranky anymore!  (Just kidding, but that’s how I’m not surprised to hear it used.)

I guess I thought the complaint was more about someone saying “do you want anymore nachos?” (Although they’d have to write it out before you knew they were spelling it that way.)

Oh well, any more of this discussion will make me hesitate to comment anymore. 

Same, and I've just realized I'm in the grammar thread. I do think I know the difference between "any more" and "anymore", though. And I know I use "anymore" regularly. 

[EtheltoTillie]

On 10/12/2024 at 6:23 PM, SoMuchTV said:

Maybe this is a regional dialect thing, but that usage doesn’t seem especially new or unusual to me. People are so cranky anymore! 

Maybe it is regional, but I feel I've only heard it recently. 

[ECM1231]

[shapeshifter]

Hah! I almost posted that "Duck, eggs" meme too, @ECM1231! 

 

             •.¸¸.•*´¨`*  •.¸꧁༒❊༒꧂¸.•´¨`*•.¸¸.•. 

 

My daughter was very recently included in a local TV news piece about "leaf peeping" in Western New York state. I was so happy that she used grammatically correct words even though it was a casual situation where many in these environs routinely substitute the objective case "me" when the subjective is indicated (including the new reporters!).

Quote

“Three years ago, when I was pregnant with him, his dad and I came here and we did the lift and that was lovely,” visitor [her name] said. “So I wanted to come back and bring the kids.”

Okay. I'm not sure "did the lift" is as perfect as "rode the lift," but she was holding her 10-month-old while with her mother-in-law was holding her 2½-year-old, with cameras running.
Or maybe she was subconsciously code-switching to the local vernacular so she wouldn't sound too educated?

Edited October 23 by shapeshifter

[StatisticalOutlier]

Today on NPR, the reporter said, "With fewer than two weeks to go before the election..." 

I swear, people have gotten so cowed by the fewer police that they use it every time they see a number. 

[shapeshifter]

10 minutes ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

Today on NPR, the reporter said, "With fewer than two weeks to go before the election..." 

If there was a Comedy Grammar Police Late Night Show, they would run this👆 clip and then comment:
“So. ‘Fewer than two weeks to go.’ Does that mean 1 week?“

[Anduin]

10 hours ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

Today on NPR, the reporter said, "With fewer than two weeks to go before the election..." 

I swear, people have gotten so cowed by the fewer police that they use it every time they see a number. 

God old bad old English. Just when you think you've got it, you don't got it.

[fastiller]

First time posting in this thread.  Hoping it's okay to ask whether the verbiage below is correct (specifically the bold, italicized bit). It's from the back of a Neutrogena "Age Shield" face lotion tube.

Quote

Not Just Sunburn Protection - Superior Anti-Aging Protection

I kind of feel like it's saying the stuff protects from anti-aging.  Like shouldn't it be "Superior Aging Protection"?

[shapeshifter]

5 hours ago, fastiller said:

First time posting in this thread.  Hoping it's okay to ask whether the verbiage below is correct (specifically the bold, italicized bit). It's from the back of a Neutrogena "Age Shield" face lotion tube.

Quote

Not Just Sunburn Protection - Superior Anti-Aging Protection

5 hours ago, fastiller said:

I kind of feel like it's saying the stuff protects from anti-aging.  Like shouldn't it be "Superior Aging Protection"?

I actually prefer the way it's written, but your way is fine too.

Edited Saturday at 02:08 AM by shapeshifter

[shapeshifter]

Posted on Blue Sky: https://bsky.app/profile/adamcsharp.bsky.social/post/3laygfvx5222v

• “Many commentators say that vigilante groups are never the answer. But they clearly don't know about the masked Ecuadorian trio named ’Acción Ortográfica Quito,’ who roam the streets at night with a singular purpose: to correct all the spelling and grammar mistakes they find in graffiti.”
  

Edited Saturday at 03:59 PM by shapeshifter

[EtheltoTillie]

This truly touches this former copy editor’s heart.

But there should be a comma after amor.  

[Anduin]

2 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Posted on Blue Sky: https://bsky.app/profile/adamcsharp.bsky.social/post/3laygfvx5222v

• “Many commentators say that vigilante groups are never the answer. But they clearly don't know about the masked Ecuadorian trio named ’Acción Ortográfica Quito,’ who roam the streets at night with a singular purpose: to correct all the spelling and grammar mistakes they find in graffiti.”
   

"Romans go home."

[shapeshifter]

2 hours ago, EtheltoTillie said:

This truly touches this former copy editor’s heart.
But there should be a comma after amor.  

This is purportedly a "grammar" thread, therefore, "your wish is my command."

[shapeshifter]

I just posted an uneditable, undeletable comment elsewhere that included:

• "One of several troubleshooting thoughts that comes to mind"

It probably should have been:

• "One of several troubleshooting thoughts that come to mind"

Right?
Or…?

[SoMuchTV]

1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

I just posted an uneditable, undeletable comment elsewhere that included:

• "One of several troubleshooting thoughts that comes to mind"

It probably should have been:

• "One of several troubleshooting thoughts that come to mind"

Right?
Or…?

I think it would depend on how you mean it…? 

"One (of several troubleshooting thoughts) that comes to mind"

or

"One of (several troubleshooting thoughts that come to mind)”

So either way seems defensible if the grammar police come after you. 

[EtheltoTillie]

2 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

I just posted an uneditable, undeletable comment elsewhere that included:

• "One of several troubleshooting thoughts that comes to mind"

It probably should have been:

• "One of several troubleshooting thoughts that come to mind"

Right?
Or…?

That's always a problem locution.