Why Grammar Matters: A Place To Discuss Matters Of Grammar

[shapeshifter]

Don't hit me but I say "Are" for Oregon.  It's definitely a northeastern thing with a letter O and R combination such as where I live now, Florida, as I pronounce it Flahrida while those not from the northeast say it like Floor-ida.

*after twitching and then taking a few deep breaths*

I'll have to listen to how she says Florida. If she consistently does that with "or" sounds, it might not bug as much.

[Aquarius]

I lived on the border of California and Oregon for 20 years and tried to get my East Coast mother to not pronounce Oregon like Or-a-gone. She finally switched out the "gone" for "gǝn" but in the process she also switched "Or" out for "Are" like the "are" in "you are here." Sigh. She's 86, and I don't live there anymore, and fortunately my daughter is no longer planning to move to Portland, so it doesn't come up in conversation very often. But it still makes me cringe.

 

Hmm.  I'm from New Jersey and I have always pronounced it "Or-a-gone." 

 

Don't hit me but I say "Are" for Oregon.  It's definitely a northeastern thing with a letter O and R combination such as where I live now, Florida, as I pronounce it Flahrida while those not from the northeast say it like Floor-ida.

 

I have always also said "Floor-ida." 

 

So I guess it depends where from the Northeast - ?

Forgive my ignorance but isn't 'Stanislaw' the proper Polish pronunciation of Stanislaus?

 

I believe it is, yes.

Edited December 17, 2014 by Aquarius

[MyAimIsTrue]

I have always also said "Floor-ida." 

 

So I guess it depends where from the Northeast - ?

 

Hmm, maybe the "ahr" instead of "oor" is just a NYC/Long Island thing then.

[Ms. Poly Theist]

Just finished reading this entire, wonderful thread. I love you people! I am, however, surprised at the omission of two items from TV. One is a pronunciation issue; the other is an issue of redundancy.

 

Why do so many talking heads on news programs, and weekly news roundup shows, say "pundint" rather than the correct "pundit"? I doubt any of those people have problems with the words "bandit" or "gambit"; so why does "pundit" always seem to rate an extra consonant when it comes out of their mouths?

 

And, on "Survivor": I've read in interviews that Jeff Probst says this phrase every week as a sort of tradition, and knows that it is redundant, but certainly the first time it was simply an error. He says: "Once again, immunity is back up for grabs." This sets my teeth on edge every time I hear it!

 

I was watching an episode of Criminal Minds recently where the characters were talking about a woman who had been killed, and one of them said, "Her aorta was severed."

 

Dear CM Writers,

 

Severed? You're sure about that? Arteries can be severed, aortas can be punctured or ruptured. Severed is not a synonym for punctured. I looked it up. You should have looked it up when you were writing the scene.

 

Regards,

Me

 

The aorta is an artery, and there is no reason why it cannot be severed. Even if David Lynch used the phrase "punctured her aorta" in an episode of Twin Peaks. You can puncture or sever an arm; you can puncture or sever an artery. Anything that can be removed can be said to be severed.

[shapeshifter]

An expert academic with a strong Russian accent was being interviewed the other day while I was getting ready for work. I'm sorry that I don't remember the context, but it was cute when he meant to say something "sparked an interest," but instead he said that it "sparkled an interest."

[panthergirl13]

As in:  "this competition has been good for her and I's relationship."

"I feel Bob and I's relationship is on shaky ground." 

This is also rampant on The Bachelor/ette and it LITERALLY makes me blow my brains out every time. I have a lot of brains.

 

And here's one from various newscasters in the Department of Redundancy Department: "3am in the morning."

[Shannon L.]

 

An expert academic with a strong Russian accent was being interviewed the other day while I was getting ready for work. I'm sorry that I don't remember the context, but it was cute when he meant to say something "sparked an interest," but instead he said that it "sparkled an interest."

There's a Russian designer on Project Runway who has trouble with American phrases and it's really cute when he messes them up.  One day, he said that one of the other designers was a "one way monkey" instead of a "one trick pony" and this past week, when they were designing for couples going on their first date, he was joking with the woman and said "no hokey pokey!".  It's quite charming.

[topanga]

Don't hit me but I say "Are" for Oregon.  It's definitely a northeastern thing with a letter O and R combination such as where I live now, Florida, as I pronounce it Flahrida while those not from the northeast say it like Floor-ida.

I know I'm guilty of mispronouncing certain geographical locations--I have trouble saying 'Worcester', MA for example. But I'm from Oregon, and I literally cringe (literally!) when I hear people say 'Are-e-gun' or 'Or-a-gone.'

 

• My friends from Detroit say they hate it when people say "DE-troit" instead of "de-TROIT."
• My friends from Illinois says they hate it when people pronounce the silent S
• Everyone I know says "Lou-I-si-ana," (5 syllables), but the natives I know say "Lou-si-ana" (4 syllables)
•  

[AuntiePam]

Local news anchor reported that a business owner was "meered in corruption".  Who would look at "mired" and think "meered"?  A typical graduate of any school in the US, probably. 

[Sandman87]

Maybe the business owner was corrupted by meerkats?

[Sandman87]

From an ad for a local security alarm company: "Protecting your home is a priority for every home owner." I must be awfully popular if every home owner wants to protect my house!

[AuntiePam]

sandman, do you think people use "your home" because they think saying "one's home" sounds pretentious? 

[Sandman87]

I can't speak for people in general. The entire commercial containing the above example was just plain bad in various ways, so in that case I'd accept stupidity and ignorance as the explanation.

[Woopwoopkitty]

Is the first R in February silent? I ask because I have heard repeatedly that The Walking Dead returns in feb-u-ary 2015.

Add me to the list of those who find the abuse of less/fewer and continuously/continually among egregious abuse of language.

[backformore]

Is the first R in February silent? I ask because I have heard repeatedly that The Walking Dead returns in feb-u-ary 2015.

 

No - it is not silent.   I ALWAYS pronounce it.   I'm afraid not to.  In 7th grade the punishment for not pronouncing FebRuary  correctly was humiliation, writing February (in cursive)  on the chalkboard until the board was filled up, and then  being smacked with a ruler.   Sister Mary Norbertine was one scary teacher, and you did NOT want her mad!   

Edited December 30, 2014 by backformore

[shapeshifter]

Is the first R in February silent? I ask because I have heard repeatedly that The Walking Dead returns in feb-u-ary 2015....

Well, it was not silent when I was in grammar school, but I am old, and I've been hearing it so frequently silent, that I wonder if it is now acceptable as an alternate pronunciation. Similarly, I've been hearing NPR program hosts and coworkers with 2 masters degrees use "me" as a subject. Our language does evolve...

ETA: I'd rather a child pronounce it without the r than get smacked by a ruler.

Edited December 30, 2014 by shapeshifter

[Moose135]

Sister Mary Norbertine was one scary teacher, and you did NOT want her mad!   

 

Twelve years of Catholic school, I know what you mean!

[Cobalt Stargazer]

I am so amused right now. I saw that dreadful UNICEF commercial with Alyssa MIlano just now, and they either edited it or filmed a new one, because she no longer says kore-ters, which drove me up a fucking wall. They made it stop. Huzzah!

[Shannon L.]

I find the "r" in February awkward and probably don't pronounce it regularly, but sometimes I catch myself and make sure I put it in there.  I don't recall being corrected in school--maybe, but if I was it wasn't as strictly enforced as it was for backformore.  I don't catch it when other people leave it out, either.

Edited December 30, 2014 by Shannon L.

[MyAimIsTrue]

I admit to being horribly guilty of saying Feb-yoo-ary.

[AuntiePam]

I also say Feb-yoo-ary, without shame.  Whoever put the unnecessary R in there in the first place can kiss my butt. 

 

Pronouncing the roo is good exercise for the lip muscles though.

[FormerMod-a1]

It's no more difficult than saying "brew", as in brewing beer.

[AuntiePam]

Brew is easy.   Brew-ary -- does not roll off the tongue.  Brewery, on the other hand, does roll off, so maybe it's going from an "oo" to an "a" sound that makes it feel clumsy.

[ABay]

Many people in CT say libarry. At first I thought they were trying to be funny but now I think it's a regional thing. It's sometimes difficult not to respond with "library does have 2 Rs but they're not next to each other." And sometimes I wonder if it's liberry and there's pie involved. If so, count me in.

Edited December 30, 2014 by ABay

[MyAimIsTrue]

I'm good with library but another word I know I say incorrectly (and can't seem to stop) is joo-lery for jewelry.

[CoderLady]

That's a good one. Ever since I learned I'd been pronouncing it wrong I've been listening hard during the Kay and Jared commercials hoping to catch them doing it, too. It's sort of iffy -- if you say it fast either way it seems to sound right.

[shapeshifter]

I just noticed that when someone retweets my tweet, Twitter sends me an email with a blue button labeled, "view their profile." To be fair, what else is going to fit on a button?

[legaleagle53]

I also say Feb-yoo-ary, without shame.  Whoever put the unnecessary R in there in the first place can kiss my butt. 

 

Pronouncing the roo is good exercise for the lip muscles though.

 

Blame the Romans.  The original Latin name of the month was Februarius which came from the Latin word februus, meaning "pure."  The month (which originally didn't exist in the Roman calendar -- that began in March and ended in December) was added to the calendar as a month of purification and penance appropriate to the time just before the new year began in March; hence the name.

Edited December 30, 2014 by legaleagle53

[shapeshifter]

Blame the Romans.  The original Latin name of the month was Februarius which came from the Latin word februus, meaning "pure."  The month (which originally didn't exist in the Roman calendar -- that began in March and ended in December) was added to the calendar as a month of purification and penance appropriate to the time just before the new year began in March; hence the name.

So if a person doesn't feel like repenting, go with Feb-yoo-ary, right? Heh.

Unless you were raised by my mother, in which case there will always be a "roo."

[legaleagle53]

Just don't say it around me -- I might go nu-cu-lar on you!

[Joe]

Australian is a lazy dialect, I've always pronounced it Feb-y-ree.

[shapeshifter]

My daughter just emailed me this:

npr.org/2014/12/30/372495062/the-npr-grammar-hall-of-shame-opens-with-i-and-me

--saying she got 5 out 5 correct and that I had taught her well. Yep. She's a third generation linguistic snob. ;)

[Archery]

Back to TV. I was watching Apocalypse: World War I on the American Heroes Channel (I know . . .), which was brilliant.  It's a documentary that tells the story of the causes and course of WWI chronologically and from all points of view, using actual colorized and restored film footage from 1913-1918.  Just brilliant.

 

Except that the date cards constantly read "Febuary," not February.  It got to the point that I pulled up the dictionary app on my phone to make sure I wasn't crazy. 

[Haleth]

Not a grammar issue but the thing that has been bugging me lately is all the ads that use "FREE GIFT!" as an inducement to buy their product.  Uh, aren't all gifts by definition free?

Edited January 4, 2015 by Haleth

[bmasters9]

Many people in CT say libarry. At first I thought they were trying to be funny but now I think it's a regional thing. It's sometimes difficult not to respond with "library does have 2 Rs but they're not next to each other." And sometimes I wonder if it's liberry and there's pie involved. If so, count me in.

There's a passage from Ramona's World by Beverly Cleary (her last novel, Ramona or otherwise, to date), and in it, Ramona is riding on the school bus with Daisy, going to Daisy's house, and Ramona happens to notice that a car in the next lane has a personalized license plate reading "LIBARY." She notices and points it out to Daisy, who suggests that Ramona tell Mrs. Meacham (their teacher) at school the next day. Ramona does, and while Mrs. Meacham admits that she knows that plate, because the person who drives that car is the county librarian, she also says that it was (I don't know if it still is) Oregon law that personalized license plates could only have six letters on them, so as it stood, there was nothing that could be done about that misspelling, and as such, Ramona was disappointed in that realization. 

[Rick Kitchen]

Ugh, I heard an NFL commercial today where the announcer said, "The road to the playoffs begin ..."

 

The road begin?

[shapeshifter]

I guess on Bones we are supposed to assume that off-screen before the show began, Angela convinced Brennan that best friends let each other use incorrect grammar, even when one of those friends [brennan] is a control freak for correctness, since Angela begins sentences with "Me and [so-and-so]" when talking to Brennan.

[Sandman87]

Note a grammar issue but the thing that has been bugging me lately is all the ads that use "FREE GIFT!" as an inducement to buy their product. Uh, aren't all gifts by definition free?

Perhaps they mean the German word gift? Although that doesn't seem like it would be much of an incentive...

[bmasters9]

Ugh, I heard an NFL commercial today where the announcer said, "The road to the playoffs begin ..."

 

The road begin?

Puzzles me too! It should be, "The road to the playoffs begins...," because "road" is singular. 

[Haleth]

Ugh, I should really be more careful about typos if I'm going to complain about other people's misuse of words.

[BoogieBurns]

I'm watching Say Yes To The Dress: Big Bliss. The bride just said her groom, "Loves me unconditionally. No matter what." 

[Rick Kitchen]

One of my pet peeves just happened while watching football.  The announcer said, "Detroit leads Dallas twenty seven".  27 to what?  Oh, you mean the score is 20-7.  Then why don't you say so?

[backformore]

A new one I heard for the second time is "social media" as a verb. On celebrity Apprentice the quote was "you can SOCIAL MEDIA till you die, but......" I can't recall the first time I heard it on tv, I though it was just an isolated use by an out idiot, then the second time it had me worried. hope this is not a trend.

[legaleagle53]

Well, you know what Calvin says:  Verbing weirds language.

[Sandman87]

Tonight the BBC news had the following comment about falling oil prices: "The implications are being felt across the globe." How exactly does one feel an implication?

[Qoass]

Two things from commercials:

 

1.  While it would be nice to think we could "sculpt" our bodies and faces, chipping excess flesh away and smooshing the rest to all the right places but really?  Can't be done.  So stop talking about creams and exercise programs that way.

 

2.  Cheese (wine, cars) carefully "crafted" by "artisans"?  Sounds great!  Mass produced in New Jersey?  Not the same thing at all.

[Ohwell]

One of the definitions of "feel" is "to become conscious of" so I don't see anything wrong with the BBC news statement. 

Edited January 7, 2015 by Ohwell

[shapeshifter]

Not on TV, but I brought home a used file folder from work to use for print-outs of this year's income tax records, and as I was about to write "Tax 2014" on the tab, I noticed it had originally been labeled "Muslin Students Association Events." I guess this is an association of students who either only wear garments made of muslin, or who have internships with a company that manufactures muslin, or who volunteer to sew muslin garments for the needy, or...? I'm pretty sure these students aren't actually stuffed muslin dolls that sit in classes, but maybe.

[topanga]

 

There's a passage from Ramona's World by Beverly Cleary (her last novel, Ramona or otherwise, to date), and in it, Ramona is riding on the school bus with Daisy, going to Daisy's house, and Ramona happens to notice that a car in the next lane has a personalized license plate reading "LIBARY." She notices and points it out to Daisy, who suggests that Ramona tell Mrs. Meacham (their teacher) at school the next day. Ramona does, and while Mrs. Meacham admits that she knows that plate, because the person who drives that car is the county librarian, she also says that it was (I don't know if it still is) Oregon law that personalized license plates could only have six letters on them, so as it stood, there was nothing that could be done about that misspelling, and as such, Ramona was disappointed in that realization.

I would almost rather die than have some think I don't know how to spell "library."

 

Couldn't she have spelled it "LBRARY" OR "LIBRRY." OK, neither is ideal, but they clearly are not mis-spellings. Or couldn't she have just gotten a plate that simply said "BOOKS"?

[shapeshifter]

I would almost rather die than have some think I don't know how to spell "library."

 

Couldn't she have spelled it "LBRARY" OR "LIBRRY." OK, neither is ideal, but they clearly are not mis-spellings. Or couldn't she have just gotten a plate that simply said "BOOKS"?

Me too, but I wonder how many kids remembered the correct spelling from that book?

I will ask my daughters if any of them remember it.