Chit-Chat: What's On Your Mind Today?

[shapeshifter]

2 minutes ago, Mindthinkr said:

I went out to get my mail tonight. I was shocked to see my driveway semi-covered in leaves. That’s about two months too early for this to be happening. I’m starting to suspect we are in for a long cold winter. It was 95 degrees today. I should not have fall symptoms. 
I live on the SE U.S. coast for reference. 

Are you having a drought?
Leaves can turn early from lack of water.

[annzeepark914]

Well...after enduring 100° today, I look forward to a nice cold winter! 🥵 

[roseha]

I hope we do have a cooler winter after all this heat.

In regard to dressing in church, I don't think footwear should be an issue.  Ever since my vasculitis and balance issues I've had no problem with wearing some form of walking shoes even to a reception - I went to one at my artist's club this past week, I wore a black outfit but with the walking shoes, I am walking much better now but would not trust formal shoes at this point.

However I do cringe when I see men - because it seems to be men 90 percent of the time - wearing shorts even in Church.   Older men, younger men, what have you. It can't be that hard to put a long pair of pants on anywhere that's a least a formal occasion.

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, roseha said:

However I do cringe when I see men - because it seems to be men 90 percent of the time - wearing shorts even in Church.   Older men, younger men, what have you. It can't be that hard to put a long pair of pants on anywhere that's a least a formal occasion.

My parents lived in Hawaii their last 30 years and never got over men wearing shorts in restaurants.

I saw at least 3 shoppers in Walmart yesterday with what I guess were their emotional support dogs. 
[googles] But only service dogs are allowed in Walmart: https://usserviceanimals.org/blog/are-dogs-allowed-in-walmart/ 
so…??

Edited August 29 by shapeshifter

[Yeah No]

9 hours ago, Absolom said:

I will ask people to extend grace for people attending church services in sports/running shoes.  Many of us (I know not all) have such serious foot problems that we don't have much choice and may well have been given medical advice on what to wear.  Normally one can't tell by looking which people these are and it isn't a certain age group.  I've been out of dress shoes since before age 30.  Granted there are plenty of people in sports shoes who could be in regular shoes, but extending grace to all is probably better than insulting someone who has no choice.  I put it under the assume good intent until proven otherwise line of things.

I am not talking about "walking shoes" that look like sneakers or comfort sneakers designed to wear with regular clothing, but we are talking about the brightly colored, often high top "fashion statement" athletic shoes that some of the young men wear. And some of those can be over the top.  Usually people with foot issues don't wear those, especially to church. They are probably not comfortable enough for those people anyway. There are many comfortable choices of footwear for people with foot issues that don't look inappropriate for most settings. Lord knows I have had to become acquainted with them in the past decade myself due to my own foot issues.

9 hours ago, ginger90 said:

In my experience many churches do not have dress codes. It’s more of a “come as you are” thing. 

These days, yes. But I was talking specifically about the Episcopal church which is pretty formal about things in general, at least here in the Northeast. And people still observe a more-or-less unwritten dress code of at least not wearing ripped or shabby jeans, tank tops, flip flops, ostentatious athletic shoes, very short skirts, anything too revealing, etc. The hats and bright athletic shoes are some of the exceptions that have creeped in. Pretty much no one comes in suit jackets or dresses anymore and casual attire is the norm but again you still see nothing like the stuff I mentioned above even though there's no dress code. And even without the dress code, many churches ask on their websites for people to dress "with respect to God and their fellow parishioners".

Edited August 29 by Yeah No

[shapeshifter]

7 hours ago, Yeah No said:

am not talking about "walking shoes" that look like sneakers or comfort sneakers designed to wear with regular clothing, but we are talking about the brightly colored, often high top "fashion statement" athletic shoes that some of the young men wear

I felt the same way about women’s flashy dresses, even though they were the norm.

[Mindthinkr]

15 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Are you having a drought?
Leaves can turn early from lack of water.

No drought. We have also noticed some trees are changing color. The weather is wreaking havoc on everything. 

[Dimity]

57 minutes ago, Mindthinkr said:

No drought. We have also noticed some trees are changing color. The weather is wreaking havoc on everything. 

Same here in Eastern Ontario.  I haven't noticed leaves falling but they are changing colour.  My husband mentioned the possibility of it being due to lack of water but considering we've had rain, sometimes a lot of rain, all summer that doesn't seem too likely.  I wouldn't mind so much if we had an early fall - but so far the temps are still very high.  So summer weather and the leaves are changing.  Weird.

[Anela]

The leaves are changing colour here, on our Maple tree, but this is when they always start, and I'm never ready for it. 

[PRgal]

School starts for us next week.  I'm a little anxious since the little guy is starting Grade 1 - a whole different world from kindergarten. He, on the other hand, is really excited to see his friends again.  We didn't get a chance to do a lot of since he was at various day camps throughout the summer (didn't travel to my surgery and then recovery).  My real worry is that he has bathroom anxiety/isn't that great at expressing his needs/wants could lead to accidents.  He's otherwise academically ready for "real" elementary school.  

[BetyBee]

I noticed fallen leaves and a browning of plants (like hostas) in the last few days. I'm in Northern Illinois and we recently had a few super hot days. It's been a pretty hot summer. I feel ready for fall and cooler temps! Actually, I saw an eagle or possibly a turkey vulture flying from rooftop to rooftop in a suburban neighborhood on my walk today. I took a couple of pics, but they're not very good. They do show the size of what is definitely a large bird of prey. Hawks are common around here, but eagles are less so. 

[shapeshifter]

53 minutes ago, PRgal said:

School starts for us next week.  I'm a little anxious since the little guy is starting Grade 1 - a whole different world from kindergarten. He, on the other hand, is really excited to see his friends again.  We didn't get a chance to do a lot of since he was at various day camps throughout the summer (didn't travel to my surgery and then recovery).  My real worry is that he has bathroom anxiety/isn't that great at expressing his needs/wants could lead to accidents.  He's otherwise academically ready for "real" elementary school.  

Hopefully since he’s already looking forward happily to seeing his friends, there’ll be a bit of helpful potty-going talk?

Actually, I don’t know about boys. My 2 little boy grandsons are my first experience with this.
The mechanics and accessories are so different, LOL.
Like: I never before knew if you don’t have the right height step stool for a toddler, then he can pee in the shower.🤪

[PRgal]

2 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Hopefully since he’s already looking forward happily to seeing his friends, there’ll be a bit of helpful potty-going talk?

Actually, I don’t know about boys. My 2 little boy grandsons are my first experience with this.
The mechanics and accessories are so different, LOL.
Like: I never before knew if you don’t have the right height step stool for a toddler, then he can pee in the shower.🤪

Hope so.  I think my real issue is that he's nervous about using the "big boy" bathroom.  Kindergarten classrooms have their own bathrooms that are made for kindergarten-sized kids.  In Grade 1, he'll use the same bathroom the rest of the elementary kids use, which scares him (at least it did at the day camps he went to).  Without the accessories he has at home (i.e. the kid seat), going #2 makes him nervous.  He tells me that he doesn't want to fall into the toilet.

[shapeshifter]

14 minutes ago, BetyBee said:

I saw an eagle or possibly a turkey vulture flying from rooftop to rooftop in a suburban neighborhood on my walk today. I took a couple of pics, but they're not very good. They do show the size of what is definitely a large bird of prey. Hawks are common around here, but eagles are less so.

I saw turkey vultures for the first time here on Lake Ontario. I never saw them on Lake Michigan in Illinois.
They are quite spooky when there’s a bunch of them perched in trees.
But they’re very shy too.

I can’t tell the bald eagles from the turkey vultures when they’re flying overhead unless the light hits the white head of the eagle.🦅 

And my phone camera is ancient, so forget that.
I plan to get a new one soon.

Edited August 29 by shapeshifter

[SweetieDarling]

I learned, from an elementary school field trip I chaperoned, that bald eagles don't make a V-shape when they fly; they look flat "like ironing boards" 

Edited August 29 by SweetieDarling

[shapeshifter]

13 minutes ago, PRgal said:

Hope so.  I think my real issue is that he's nervous about using the "big boy" bathroom.  Kindergarten classrooms have their own bathrooms that are made for kindergarten-sized kids.  In Grade 1, he'll use the same bathroom the rest of the elementary kids use, which scares him (at least it did at the day camps he went to).  Without the accessories he has at home (i.e. the kid seat), going #2 makes him nervous.  He tells me that he doesn't want to fall into the toilet.

I saw portable folding potty seats at Walmart yesterday. But I think they’re for trips to grandma’s, not for 1st grader’s backpacks. 

[Absolom]

11 hours ago, Yeah No said:

I am not talking about "walking shoes" that look like sneakers or comfort sneakers designed to wear with regular clothing, but we are talking about the brightly colored, often high top "fashion statement" athletic shoes that some of the young men wear.

I'm going to keep wearing my neon running shoes.  They're the best shoes for my feet that I've found.  They aren't designed to hide the fact that they are running shoes or try to fit in.   Thankfully our priest is open minded enough to simply be pleased I've shown up and he seems to extend that attitude to everyone.  

11 hours ago, Yeah No said:

There are many comfortable choices of footwear for people with foot issues that don't look inappropriate for most settings.

 I regretfully and respectfully completely disagree. My shoes probably look out of place anywhere except on a running track.  Yet I quit considering that about 40 years ago.  If my shoes aren't welcome, then neither am I.  

Even the Greek Orthodox don't mind my neon glow in the dark running shoes, so I guess it's only Episcopalian churches I should avoid?  That's easily done.  

[Browncoat]

3 hours ago, SweetieDarling said:

I learned, from an elementary school field trip I chaperoned, that bald eagles don't make a V-shape when they fly; they look flat "like ironing boards" 

Turkey Vultures will wobble as they fly as well.  Eagles are steadier.

[fairffaxx]

3 hours ago, BetyBee said:

Actually, I saw an eagle or possibly a turkey vulture flying from rooftop to rooftop in a suburban neighborhood on my walk today. I took a couple of pics, but they're not very good. They do show the size of what is definitely a large bird of prey.

Turkey vultures are not birds of prey.  They only eat carrion & don't kill.

[meep.meep]

16 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

I saw at least 3 shoppers in Walmart yesterday with what I guess were their emotional support dogs. 
[googles] But only service dogs are allowed in Walmart: https://usserviceanimals.org/blog/are-dogs-allowed-in-walmart/ 
so…??

I have an employee who trained her emotional support dog to be a service animal.  Don't assume these people haven't as well.

 

[Browncoat]

50 minutes ago, fairffaxx said:

Turkey vultures are not birds of prey.  They only eat carrion & don't kill.

That is true, but vultures are generally classified with birds of prey in field guides.

[StatisticalOutlier]

3 hours ago, meep.meep said:

I have an employee who trained her emotional support dog to be a service animal.  Don't assume these people haven't as well.

What task or work is the dog trained to do to mitigate your employee's disability?

[shapeshifter]

4 hours ago, meep.meep said:

I have an employee who trained her emotional support dog to be a service animal.  Don't assume these people haven't as well.

Sure.
It was just that it was an anomaly in my very low-rent Walmart to see anyone with a pet under their arm or on a leash, let alone 3 at the same time. 
Maybe they were still celebrating National Dog Day? 
Seriously, that was the first thing that crossed my mind. 
Or some sort of doggie social group meeting had just finished up nearby?

My daughter's dog, whose near-constant barking drives me nuts, slept on my feet while I dozed and doom scrolled today during my grand-toddler's nap.
I am never going to another pet (or husband) but I don't hate other people's.

It was just so odd. 
And I cannot imagine the poor employees at this Walmart asking anyone any questions besides the random "May I see your receipt?" at the exit, let alone asking the people with the dogs:

1. “Is the dog a service animal required because of a disability?”
2. “What work or tasks has the dog been trained to perform?”
   ada.gov/resources/service-animals-2010-requirements/#inquiries-exclusions-charges-and-other-specific-rules-related-to-service-animals

Edited August 30 by shapeshifter

[Quof]

I don't like dogs (I don't dislike them, I just don't care for them). And I'm damned tired of people bringing dogs the size of Shetland ponies into stores, because stores are "dog friendly".  I shouldn't have to navigate my Marshalls cart around a group of dogs blocking the aisles sniffing each other, nor should dogs be sticking their noses into the shelves of merchandise including food.  

[annzeepark914]

The stores need to put signs all over that stipulate only service dogs allowed. These comfort animals do not belong in a store. Walmart can afford to pi$$ off some customers. And the dog owner should be prepared to show proof that his/her dog is certified as a service dog. I'm tempted to say something (but then, I don't wanna be shot...such a fun country we live in these days).

[Dimity]

You can buy those vests that claim your pet is a support animal online.  It is meaningless and is no guarantee that the animal has had any kind of special training in how to behave in public settings.  I see people with cats and dogs (no ferrets or parrots so far) all the time in stores now and they don't get challenged because we live in a world where people have no boundaries and are prepared to go ballistic on some poor teenage clerk just because they might not get their way over something.

Edited August 30 by Dimity

[ginger90]

1 hour ago, annzeepark914 said:

And the dog owner should be prepared to show proof that his/her dog is certified as a service dog.

It would be against the law to ask for documentation in the US.

 

Edited August 30 by ginger90

[Lisa418722]

2 hours ago, Dimity said:

You can buy those vests that claim your pet is a support animal online.  It is meaningless and is no guarantee that the animal has had any kind of special training in how to behave in public settings.  I see people with cats and dogs (no ferrets or parrots so far) all the time in stores now and they don't get challenged because we live in a world where people have no boundaries and are prepared to go ballistic on some poor teenage clerk just because they might not get their way over something.

One day I was in the grocery store and just about ran into a dog with a service vest, but the way he (she?) was sniffing the potato chip aisle, I'm sure it was the owner's emotional support dog, but not a service dog.  

A few years ago a coworker bought her 20-something-year-old daughter a golden retriever.  Daughter was telling her therapist how much better she felt since getting the dog, but she was sad to leave the dog behind when she went out or wanted to fly to another state to see her boyfriend.  The therapist said she would write a note to make the dog the daughter's emotional support animal and she would be able to go anywhere she wanted with the dog or fly for free.  I told my coworker it didn't work that way, but coworker said as long as there was a note from the doctor, the dog would be allowed.  I left that job and I wonder to this day if the dog went wherever the daughter went. People like that are the ones who have abused the system and made it difficult for service dogs.   

Edited August 30 by Lisa418722

[annzeepark914]

Love this ^^^^. Thanks!

[Quof]

I'm not even talking about (fake) service dogs.  Many stores in my area allow or even encourage dogs, as part of their marketing strategies  "We're Dog Friendly, why would you leave your yippy dog at home while you run your errands?  Bring them here so they can yip at other dogs while you shop".  Don't get me started on the push to allow dogs on restaurant patios. At least the Department of Health hasn't repealed the regulations that say the only animals allowed inside businesses that sell or serve food are service animals.  Businesses can allow pets to lie outside a patio that is accessible from the street, but they can't cross onto the patio.  

[Browncoat]

Ugh.  We just had a severe thunderstorm sweep through, and I lost yet another part of yet another tree.  Fortunately, this one didn't hit anything, and fell into the yard (as opposed to into the street, which it could have done), but still.  It was a beautiful maple tree that turns the most spectacular red in the fall.  

[Ohiopirate02]

2 hours ago, Lisa418722 said:

A few years ago a coworker bought her 20-something-year-old daughter a golden retriever.  Daughter was telling her therapist how much better she felt since getting the dog, but she was sad to leave the dog behind when she went out or wanted to fly to another state to see her boyfriend.  The therapist said she would write a note to make the dog the daughter's emotional support animal and she would be able to go anywhere she wanted with the dog or fly for free.  I told my coworker it didn't work that way, but coworker said as long as there was a note from the doctor, the dog would be allowed.  I left that job and I wonder to this day if the dog went wherever the daughter went. People like that are the ones who have abused the system and made it difficult for service dogs.   

 

The therapist was partially correct on emotional support animals and/or pets flying. The flying for free part is where they are incorrect because ESAs are not protected like service dogs. Some airlines may have or still do have procedures in place that do waive the pet fees for documented ESAs, but because the whole concept of ESA is unregulated that is not a given. 

[fairffaxx]

I'd rather encounter well-behaved dogs in stores & restaurants than ill-behaved children.

[Dimity]

11 minutes ago, fairffaxx said:

I'd rather encounter well-behaved dogs in stores & restaurants than ill-behaved children.

Badly behaved dogs can be more than just an annoyance though. I still have a scar from someone's "oh yes he's gentle" dog.

Edited August 30 by Dimity

[annzeepark914]

3 hours ago, Browncoat said:

Ugh.  We just had a severe thunderstorm sweep through, and I lost yet another part of yet another tree.  Fortunately, this one didn't hit anything, and fell into the yard (as opposed to into the street, which it could have done), but still.  It was a beautiful maple tree that turns the most spectacular red in the fall.  

Maple trees are so beautiful, especially in autumn. That's too bad about your tree. 

[Quof]

If the dogs were well behaved, I wouldn't notice them.  And you're welcome to have your dog's hair all over your food, keep it away from mine.  

[fairffaxx]

But fiber (fka "roughage") is so important!

[PRgal]

Today, I saw two women around my mom's age (actually, one was probably older, maybe in her 80s.  My mom is in her mid-70s) who were complete opposites.  I had a medical appointment in the morning and saw two women, one appeared to be in her 40s and the other I thought was in her 80s.  The older woman was hunched over and using a walker.  But when the daughter spoke with the receptionist, she said that her mom's birth year was the same as my mom's.  I expected her to be a few years older.  Then later, coming home from running errands, I saw another lady, probably 80s, who appeared to be super fit.  She was wearing a sports bra/tank type top and leggings.  She looked like the type who runs/goes to the gym on a regular basis.  She was with a man around her age (husband?  boyfriend?) who was also fit-looking.  I want to be the woman I saw in the afternoon when I'm elderly!

[Absolom]

Sometimes we can control that and sometimes we can't.  I'm within a couple years of the woman next door.  I walk outside every day and consciously push my shoulders back so I won't hunch.  She walks with exaggerated lordosis like some of the pregnant fundies.  I wear rather modern clothes.  She gets polyester from the thrift store.  Which one of us looks much older than our actual age?

[Dimity]

Sometimes it really comes down to good luck and good genes.  My next door neighbour is 80 and while she certainly looks her age she is slender, athletic - still mows her own lawn! - and is very active in the community.  On the other hand I used to visit my Mom at her retirement home and there were people there who were 80 and were incontinent, using  a walker and struggling to stay awake at dinner.  I know which way I hope the chips fall for me!

[shapeshifter]

9 hours ago, Lisa418722 said:

 

Except for my daughter's barkaholic dog.
We are all his therapy humans.

It would probably help if he was walked regularly. 

But he is a little calmer now that he's 2 years old.

[Ancaster]

6 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Except for my daughter's barkaholic dog.
We are all his therapy humans.

It would probably help if he was walked regularly. 

But he is a little calmer now that he's 2 years old.

Ugh.  This just reminded me of friends who had their dog debarked/devocalized because the noise bothered them.  Apparently they just wanted a cute silent puppy.  Try Gund.

[EtheltoTillie]

This chitchat is a question for @Milburn Stone, about advertising, following up on my post the other thread.

This morning while following up on a puzzle clue, we were looking up the old McDonald's jingle for the Big Mac:  two all beef patties special sauce lettuce cheese pickles onions on a sesame seed bun.

Anyway, I would love to know how that gets produced.  What is the process for generating that slogan and then producing a commercial. 

Edited August 31 by EtheltoTillie

[shapeshifter]

I not only knew nothing about buying a home when I bought the one I'm in,
but I knew even less (if that's possible) about buying a condo or living in one. 

When the condo board president started sending out info about getting balcony rugs replaced, I asked him about it, but he kept responding with vague generalities. This went on for 6 months or so. Now it turns out that "all" of the balcony carpets were replaced, but not mine. (Maybe not others too?) 

But the weirdest part to me (aside from putting carpeting on a balcony) is that the new carpet is red. 
The balcony is extension from the primary bedroom, although some use it as a den. The carpet inside is tan. The walls are white. 
When I said "I guess when you live in a place like this, you don't get to choose," he responded that they went with red because that was what one of the owners had already done. 
????
The condo board president said he thought the "big, leftover roll of carpet" was taken away and that he would contact our useless (my internal word) management company representative.

I sent an email to both of them, asking if there is any way I could have neutral color. It's a small balcony. The price of the carpet can't be very much.

Am I right that carpet on a balcony in Rochester NY is impractical at best, and red is a hideous color for it?

[Absolom]

That's a first for me in carpeting a balcony much less in red.  

[supposebly]

14 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Am I right that carpet on a balcony in Rochester NY is impractical at best, and red is a hideous color for it?

That is ridiculous. I can smell the mold from over here.

[Dimity]

We had an outdoor rug on our balcony back when we had a balcony.  It was supposed to be all season but I was never convinced that it would be a good idea for it to sit under a blanket of snow all winter.  But, I guess, in theory it should have been.

Edited August 31 by Dimity

[PRgal]

My son had a playdate over today.  Goodness, having to deal with two boys who are the same age is crazy exhausting.  And the other kid's mom was over too.  It takes THREE of us to make sure they're not knocking over and breaking things.  The only time we managed to get them to sit still was during snack time.

[Milburn Stone]

On 8/31/2024 at 9:23 AM, EtheltoTillie said:

This chitchat is a question for @Milburn Stone, about advertising, following up on my post the other thread.

This morning while following up on a puzzle clue, we were looking up the old McDonald's jingle for the Big Mac:  two all beef patties special sauce lettuce cheese pickles onions on a sesame seed bun.

Anyway, I would love to know how that gets produced.  What is the process for generating that slogan and then producing a commercial. 

OK, will try to address without writing an essay; the answer isn't complicated but has several steps.

Obviously, it begins with the assignment: Either introduce the Big Mac, or get more customers to order a Big Mac (move them away from lower-profit items, could be one reason). There could be a little more to the assignment, like a research finding that "people know the Big Mac exists, but they're not ordering it, because they don't know what's in it."

The most common next step is for a two-person team--or a few two-person teams--to sit around and gab in an office, the two of them, until one of them has an idea worth pursuing. This could be within the first five minutes of sitting down or could take days. One of the team is a copywriter, the other is an art director. The idea could come from either. And it might be the copywriter who comes up with the visual and the art director who comes up with the words! It definitely helps if the two people have a rapport and hold each other in high regard and have a track record with each other. In the case of the Big Mac, undoubtedly one member of the duo had a musical background and saw the rhythmic possibilities in a list of ingredients. (Side note: I was known for creating spots that used music in an important way. The Big Mac campaign was created at a different agency, but I can imagine myself coming up with it if I had the assignment. Not saying I would have, but it's within the realm of possibility.)

They then present the idea to the creative director, either informally by running into his office excitedly, or in a meeting. If it's in a meeting, there will be a storyboard, eight or twelve drawn images (hopefully not more, unless absolutely necessary) with the words that accompany them appearing sort of like captions under the images. If it's a musical idea (like with Big Mac) you may hire a jingle house to prepare a demo so even non-musical people will get the idea.

If the idea makes it out of the agency, it's presented to the client, usually by the team who came up with it. The hoped-for response is "Eureka!" :)

You then begin the pre-production process. You may already know the director and production house you want to use, but if you don't, you look at directors' reels for who would be suitable and exciting to work with. Generally we sought bids from three production houses, because the client needed to know they weren't getting ripped off. If your recommendation to the client happened to be the highest bidder, they'd often go for it if you gave them a good reason. It helps if the client has some creative sense. (Many do, not all.)

You go out to shoot the thing. Usually in NY or LA. Preparatory to the shoot, you've had discussions with the director about tone, set design, wardrobe, etc., and most importantly, casting. The audition process is much as you've seen it in movies and TV about actors auditioning.

The shoot could take two or three days. Sometimes more. If you're going on location, the money can be quite daunting, but worth it to the client if they're looking for a result that will have high visibility and get talked about. (In the case of McDonald's, costs were controlled by the client having built a special McDonald's that served no customers and was only used for commercial shoots. In a similar fashion, all the commercials, movies, and TV that you've seen where people are on a plane have been shot in a warehouse in Pecoima that contains chunks of fuselages of all the aircraft currently flying, with interiors changeable to suit.)

Then post-production: Recording of the final music track, and film editing. (The order of those two events varies.) Then showing a rough cut to the client, which hopefully results in another "Eureka." If not, then making adjustments and showing it again. Then finishing it all up with color correction and other touches. And then sending it to the networks.

Happy to answer any questions that result from the above.

 

Edited September 2 by Milburn Stone

[EtheltoTillie]

Thanks, @Milburn Stone.  That's such a great summary and great background info.  I have another burning question (always had this).  Certain commercials are so memorable, we can remember them even, er, 50 years later.  But are these the most successful? I imagine the Big Mac commercial was very successful.

I have always heard that some of those might be memorable but not make the viewer remember the product or want to buy it.  How do they measure success? I know there must be very complicated metrics for this.  When I worked in magazines, the ad sales teams had all kinds of research to show the effectiveness of buying an ad page, but really how do they know?  Focus groups?