S44.E02: Two Dorky Magnets

[ArtFossil]

What a delightful episode! Nothing like a good blindside!

No problems with Helen getting voted out. First, she’s bland and second, as Yam Yam said: “I want to get rid of Helen because she’s super intelligent—-she’s constantly working scenarios out.”

Being perceived as too focused on strategy (not relationships or winning challenges or food gathering or other survival needs) tends to make one a target.

Edited March 10, 2023 by ArtFossil

[eel21788]

8 minutes ago, ArtFossil said:

No problems with Helen getting voted out.

She was one of 2 people on this tribe that I could stand. I'm hoping they go on a huge losing streak, so the rest of them are history before the merger.

[CraftyHazel]

11 hours ago, storyskip said:

Getting the feeling I'm the only one who hits mute when Carolyn is speaking.

I don't find her charming or amusing in the slightest, but that's the joy of the Survivor it takes all sorts of personalities to make a season.

You’re not.  I can’t stand her.

[Lantern7]

Erik’s take on the episode:

 

Thinking about the chess board . . . anyone else think there will be clues indicating one of the pieces is an idol? Or that arranging them in a set way would make something pop out?

[GenerationX]

Maybe there's a one-move checkmate on the chess board.  It would involve taking a piece, which would have an advantage/idol message under it.

[Guest]

31 minutes ago, GenerationX said:

Maybe there's a one-move checkmate on the chess board.  It would involve taking a piece, which would have an advantage/idol message under it.

Adam Klein would be all over this.

[Cotypubby]

Why do people in this thread keep saying that Carolyn has the idols mixed up, as if that was something said in the show? It’s not!! Each team has a different combination of idol/fakes. At no point during the episode did the editors give any kind of notice that the idols were mixed up. No sound cue, no CU to the instructions, no flashback to her reading them, nothing. This is something that has been completely invented in this thread.

[eelpout]

On 3/8/2023 at 7:58 PM, Lady Calypso said:

It IS a shame about Helen, as I really liked her. I wish we could have gotten rid of Sarah instead, who is just plain...

...and tall. She's Plain and Tall.

It was just sitting there. 🙃

Edited March 10, 2023 by eelpout

[SVNBob]

On 3/8/2023 at 8:16 PM, Jodithgrace said:

Also, my closed captions call him “Yam Yam,” but everybody calls him “Jam Jam.” Just makes me laugh. I guess it’s spelled Yam Yam, and pronounced Jam Jam.  I guess I’d rather be named after a fruit spread than a sweet potato.

His full first name is "Yamil".  Yam Yam is probably a family nickname that he likes and encourages everyone to use.  And since he said he's Puerto Rican (I think?), that would explain the pronunciation shift of the Y to a J.

 

On 3/8/2023 at 9:57 PM, vb68 said:

Yeah, I'm not really feeling Mr.Smartypants here. I mean, if other people think Helen is the smart one, then keeping her is good for him, right? I think Helen would had been a great ally(and potential shield) for him. Maybe he was a wee bit threatened?

Like Carolyn said herself, what does Carson really get from siding with her?

 

16 hours ago, seacliffsal said:

I liked Helen, but I have a feeling that Carson was happy to target her as she was really smart and he obviously wants to be the most smartest person ever! to appear on Survivor.  Her abilities threatened him so he went with the pair that was targeting her.  Maybe Yam Yam felt the same as he stated she was 'too smart,' so maybe he felt a bit threatened as well.

This.

Or in the terms of another thread around here, Carson and Helen were both Foxes.  He just decided to side with a Bunny (Yam Yam) and a Goat (Carolyn) rather than the other Fox and the unknown animal.

 

On 3/8/2023 at 10:04 PM, Lady Calypso said:

I was REALLY hoping that Brandon would have had a confessional where he'd say "yeah, I feel betrayed by Matthew for using his SITD and not having my back." Instead, all the blame goes to Kane, who thought he was just voting with everyone else, not that he'd be the only one to take the fall after the fact because Jaime got paranoid and Matthew was too much of a coward to pick a side.

I think it was revealed in the post-episode 1 interviews that Matthew whispered something into Brandon's ear at TC. 

 

15 hours ago, Nashville said:

Gotta ask, though - and I’m pretty sure this same question came up for discussion a season or two back - when did TPTB drop the rule about not being able to sit out the same person in back-to-back challenges?

The rule has always been that you cannot sit the same person in back-to-back challenges unless they're combined RC/ICs. 

The easier way to think of it is that TC resets the Sandra Bench.

 

 

14 hours ago, meep.meep said:

So Carolyn has the idol from the birdcage, but she has mistaken the real one for the fake one.  She never read the papers inside the pouch and so she thinks the coin one is real and the bead one is fake.  It's the other way around.  It'll be fun when she goes to play it.

 

2 hours ago, Cotypubby said:

Why do people in this thread keep saying that Carolyn has the idols mixed up, as if that was something said in the show? It’s not!! Each team has a different combination of idol/fakes. At no point during the episode did the editors give any kind of notice that the idols were mixed up. No sound cue, no CU to the instructions, no flashback to her reading them, nothing. This is something that has been completely invented in this thread.

TBF, this is Carolyn we're talking about.  From what we've seen of her, it's entirely believable that she'd muddle things up.  But she didn't.

There are 3 different HIIs and 3 different fakes.  And each tribe's real is another tribe's fake, and each tribe's fake is the third tribe's real.

• Orange
  • Real: Beads
  • Fake: Tribe Colored Medallion
• Green
  • Real: Tribe Colored Medallion
  • Fake: Coin
• Purple
  • Real: Coin
  • Fake: Beads

Which means that TPTB set things up for idol chaos once the merge hits.

[violet and green]

58 minutes ago, SVNBob said:

Purple

• Real: Coin
• Fake: Beads

 

 

I am fairly certain Brandon referred to the coin as a "medallion" and said, reading from the note, that it was not an idol, but he could do what he wanted with it. So, purple, real, beads; fake, coin.

[SVNBob]

21 minutes ago, violet and green said:

 

I am fairly certain Brandon referred to the coin as a "medallion" and said, reading from the note, that it was not an idol, but he could do what he wanted with it. So, purple, real, beads; fake, coin.

No.  Brandon specifically noted that he was given an "beautiful Orange medallion" with no power.  And he turned in some beads as his real idol.

Danny on Green noted that his Large Green medallion was real, and the "amulet, coin" (ie, a coin on a string) was his fake.

 

Mike Bloom, the Survivor correspondent for Parade magazine, compiled the clips after this was discussed on Reddit.

 

[violet and green]

5 minutes ago, SVNBob said:

No.  Brandon specifically noted that he was given an "beautiful Orange medallion" with no power.  And he turned in some beads as his real idol.

Yes. That's what I said. Beads, real. Coin/medallion, fake.

You've written:

 

1 hour ago, SVNBob said:

Purple

• Real: Coin
• Fake: Beads

 

 

[SVNBob]

Brandon is Orange.

Carolyn is Purple.

[violet and green]

Oh. Delete previous posts.

[SVNBob]

Just now, violet and green said:

Oh. Delete previous posts.

Welcome to where I was last week with the math posts.  😉

[violet and green]

Just now, SVNBob said:

Welcome to where I was last week with the math posts.  😉

I thought I was going crazy! Turns out I was going crazy.

[Scatterbrained]

I’ve been wondering since the first episode if the finial on top of the birdcage ,Ishtar also be something of value, or be hollow and have something of value inside.  The chess pieces are about the same size and shape, too.  Aren’t they?

[iMonrey]

Quote

Mike Bloom, the Survivor correspondent for Parade magazine, compiled the clips after this was discussed on Reddit.

OK - both Brandon and Danny got identical bead idols. Bradon's fake was a "medallion" and Danny's fake was a "silver coin."

Carolyn says her silver coin is the idol and the identical bead thing is a fake. But we do not see her read the instructions. 

Why would Brandon and Danny get identical idols, and Carolyn get the same thing but have it designated as the fake? What if she gives it to someone else, they play it, and Jeff doesn't know which one it is? Same with the two silver coins.

If all three of them get identical bead things but different fakes it makes more sense all the bead things are idols and all the other things are fakes. Otherwise Jeff has to go "Uh, is this the one Carolyn found or the one Danny found?" 

I mean, I guess the producers would probably tell Jeff who has what but boy that's confusing for the audience as well.

[ljenkins782]

On 3/8/2023 at 10:57 PM, vb68 said:

Yeah, I'm not really feeling Mr.Smartypants here. I mean, if other people think Helen is the smart one, then keeping her is good for him, right? I think Helen would had been a great ally(and potential shield) for him. Maybe he was a wee bit threatened?

Like Carolyn said herself, what does Carson really get from siding with her?

It really is true in my experience that very smart people don't need to tell you that fact about themselves.

I need to see more of Danny. But he's the one who came out of this episode smelling like a rose. Physical leader, sneaky and strategic as hell. Plus he didn't have to tell us he was smart.

Yeah, I was so sure he'd go home this episode, the copious screen time and constant bragging about his intelligence felt like a build up to a big fall. Maybe that's coming next. And per the first episode, Helen was the main factor in their win at the very first brain teaser, Carson was shown standing around nodding at her equations. So she probably is smarter than him, but somehow it's more threatening to have a smart woman than a smart man? 

Quote

Matthew and Carson annoy the shit out of me. Listen, I'm fine with the superfan. I'm ok with the idea that some players come in with having practiced the various challenges they always overuse. It's Survivor's fault that they haven't come up with anything original in the physical challenges in years. If a player wants to game the system, then I'm all for it. But Matthew made it sound like he was sacrificing his arm for this challenge ("I TOOK IT OUT OF THE SLING, JEFF! I COULD HAVE DIED!") which, along with him stupidly injuring his arm from climbing a rock for no reason and playing his SITD and making it sound like some 4D chess move, made me more annoyed of him than I probably should have been. 

Yes and there was something a bit...privileged about both of their pursuits. Like, not everyone has the time and the resources to create reproductions of these puzzles at home. It also seemed like kind of a loser activity to me, but that's just my opinion. For example, it's not guaranteed that you'll make the cut for the show and if not, that's a whole lotta wasted time, money, and effort.

And it makes Matt's extracurricular climbing activity on a slipper rocky extra puzzling, he put that much effort into studying for the show, finally makes it on, and risks a med-evac by climbing wet, slippery rocks like a moron? Even little kids are taught to avoid rocky areas in the ocean.

Quote

I love Matty and Frannie. They give me Christian/Gabby vibes except the latter was strictly platonic and this one is leaning towards a showmance.

I like Matty and Frannie too, I was never a huge fan of Christian and Gabby, but Matty and Frannie are a fun, dorky pair and have genuine chemistry. After Matty's story of getting dumped and the ex taking the dog, I'm rooting for him to win the million just to see if the ex tries to crawl back, LOL. I think Frannie is genuinely liking Matty, but she seems the more likely of the 2 to turn on the other. But I hope they get to have a fun time while they're out there. 

[SnapHappy]

If Carolyn is smart, she will immediately float the narrative:

  "HEY!  Helen must have gone home with the idol from the birdcage in her pocket!  OMG, She had it ALL the time & didn't use it!  Wow!"

Definitely get the pressure & suspicion off her. 

Because I think they'd all agree that Helen never thought it would be her going home. 

[RedbirdNelly]

On 3/8/2023 at 10:31 PM, Lantern7 said:

I'm thinking how much one would like this season will be based on one's tolerance of Carolyn. You ever watch SNL with Kirsten Wiig playing the lady that tries (and inevitably fails) to keep a secret? That is Carolyn. She's probably a nice person in real life, but she also strikes me as the sort of person that would volunteering the information about digging through her kid's poop for a lost tooth, even if no one was talking to her at all.

 

My husband pointed out the exact same thing when we were watching. 

I also couldn't figure out why anyone would dig through poop for a tooth. I lost one of mine in the backyard--we just wrote a note explaining the situation to the tooth fairy. She got it.

I felt bad to see Helen go. So far she seemed chill and may have made some interesting moves.

i did not get why Matthew felt the need to tell everyone he practiced in his backyard. You save that for the reunion or the talking head. Just say "Jeff, I just felt like I could do this. Somehow I knew." 

[SVNBob]

47 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

OK - both Brandon and Danny got identical bead idols.

No, they didn't.  Brandon got a bead bracelet idol.  Danny got a big Green medallion.

 

48 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Bradon's fake was a "medallion" and Danny's fake was a "silver coin."

This is correct.

50 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Why would Brandon and Danny get identical idols, and Carolyn get the same thing but have it designated as the fake?

They didn't and she didn't.  She was the only one of the three that got both beads and a coin.

There's only two of each type of item: two medallions, two coins, and two "beads". 

The differences are the colors.  Orange and Purple "beads", Orange and Green medallions, and coins with different colored strings for Green (a lighter, possibly green, string) and Purple (darker, possibly purple).  There's no Orange coin, no Purple medallion, and no Green beads.

All Peachy has to know is which items are the real ones: the already played Orange beads, the Purple coin, and the Green medallion.  He doesn't need to know who has them, just what they are.   And in the tribal phase, all he has to do is remember one item per TC.  First TC was Orange, so the real HII was the beads.  2nd was Purple, so the real HII would have been the coin.

Yes, it'll get more chaotic come the merge, but that's what TPTB want to happen.  That's why there's this circle of real and fake idols.

[Valerie]

18 minutes ago, SVNBob said:

No, they didn't.  Brandon got a bead bracelet idol.  Danny got a big Green medallion.

 

This is correct.

They didn't and she didn't.  She was the only one of the three that got both beads and a coin.

There's only two of each type of item: two medallions, two coins, and two "beads". 

The differences are the colors.  Orange and Purple "beads", Orange and Green medallions, and coins with different colored strings for Green (a lighter, possibly green, string) and Purple (darker, possibly purple).  There's no Orange coin, no Purple medallion, and no Green beads.

All Peachy has to know is which items are the real ones: the already played Orange beads, the Purple coin, and the Green medallion.  He doesn't need to know who has them, just what they are.   And in the tribal phase, all he has to do is remember one item per TC.  First TC was Orange, so the real HII was the beads.  2nd was Purple, so the real HII would have been the coin.

Yes, it'll get more chaotic come the merge, but that's what TPTB want to happen.  That's why there's this circle of real and fake idols.

Thank you for explaining this clearly. I was one of the people confused and thought that Carolyn had gotten the idols switched around. I mean, I wouldn't put it past her since she was so flustered from her big "heist." It definitely would make for good chaos in the future if it were true, but I still think there's room for shenanigans once the merge hits.

[Taeolas]

1 hour ago, Valerie said:

Thank you for explaining this clearly. I was one of the people confused and thought that Carolyn had gotten the idols switched around. I mean, I wouldn't put it past her since she was so flustered from her big "heist." It definitely would make for good chaos in the future if it were true, but I still think there's room for shenanigans once the merge hits.

That's probably intentional on the producer's part. They want US to be confused so when it comes up later, we'll want to go back and figure out where we got confused and why. Not showing Carolyn reading the notes and setting things up so she seemed to be in a panic to replace the bag before being discovered furthers that story. 

 

In reality, Carolyn probably had all the time in the world, and likely was filmed reading the notes like the others were, and probably put the bag back with lots of time to spare. But the editors were/are having fun with us. 

[LadyChatts]

21 hours ago, violet and green said:

I like Carson, too. I was sorry Helen, who I also liked and saw a lot of potential in, was their choice over the one with the advantage. Is Sarah  more of an asset in challenges or something? But maybe not knowing what she had or hadn't picked up on her trip out to wherever factored in. I think Carson being a keen young student rocket scientist means it is unlikely he was actually threatened by Helen being "too smart" - but I do think his bad "body reading" skills factored into it, as he declared Helen had the idol c/- her tightly folded arms.

Carolyn sure is an unusual person, but I really enjoyed her confessionals this episode and was grateful she didn't fall out of that high tree when she encountered the snake, as that would have been yet another casualty of this weird cast. She sure spoke the truth when she exclaimed over the extreme clutter of the voting booth. I hope she reads her bits of paper eventually, studies them, and does not screw up her idol use.

Helen said in her exit interview that she knew Sarah lost her vote.  I'm wondering if it was a combination of things on Carson's part-he flipped to Carolyn/Yam Yam because he didn't want it to be a tie.  And maybe he figures, long term, they are better options to have with him.  Helen might have gone off and done her own thing down the road and not stayed loyal, but Carson may be assuming that Yam Yam and Carolyn will just do what he says or not be as strategic.  I don't get why not Sarah though, unless they just didn't view her as much of a threat.  I kind of wish that Carolyn had played her idol, and that Sarah used her advantage to steal it, if only for them to realize they made the wrong choice by voting off Helen.  

And on the subject of bad body language skills, I'm glad that Carson was wrong on his read of Helen and not figuring out that Carolyn had the idol.  Since he comes across like a bit of a know it all, I'm glad he's not as smart as he thinks.

[Morrissey]

It makes no sense that the other four wouldn't unanimously suspect Carolyn to have the idol. They must have left a good chunk of crucial details and conversations on the editing floor. 

Matthew (guy with arm in sling) needs to curb his enthusiasm. Proclaiming in front of EVERYONE that he's been preparing for Survivor for a long time is the second dumb move he's made. And we have 30+ more days to go. 

[HurricaneVal]

Ever since that early season's hidden immunity idol being a tile/medallion prominently featured in a production built archway leading to each tribe's beach area, I've wondered why all the castaways aren't constantly investigating everything around them, all the time.  Advantages are hidden underneath sit-out benches for instance.  That's sort of the Russell Hantz strategy, who famously looked for--and found--hidden immunity idols before they were given the clue for the hidden immunity idols in tree mail.  Russell was also famously famous for being an enormous asshole, but that was excellent strategy.  He needed it, because see also:  huge asshole.

I think it was a post exit interview from maybe one of last season's early boots who stated that she did exactly that, particularly in the voting booth at tribal council.  She said they didn't show it, but she spent a huge amount of time flipping everything over and looking under and behind things.  Just in case.... 

So....it does make me wonder if all the clutter in that medieval TC voting area serves a purpose other than being a bunch of props furthering an incomprehensible theme for the season.

[fishcakes]

On 3/10/2023 at 9:53 AM, RedbirdNelly said:

I also couldn't figure out why anyone would dig through poop for a tooth. I lost one of mine in the backyard--we just wrote a note explaining the situation to the tooth fairy. She got it.

I was thinking about how her poor kid had to go to school the next day and have all his friends say, "dude, your mom dug through your poop for days?" Even so, I like Carolyn's weirdness and how when someone asked her what she was doing, her answer was, "I'm not normal." I'm going to start using that when I want to be left alone.

21 hours ago, Morrissey said:

It makes no sense that the other four wouldn't unanimously suspect Carolyn to have the idol. They must have left a good chunk of crucial details and conversations on the editing floor.

The other tribe mentioned that they hadn't looked at their birdcage for a while so I figured the same thing about Carolyn's tribe. I think having the four of them without Carolyn discover it had been opened suggested that they should have known, but if they hadn't looked at it for a day or so before they discovered the idol missing, then they probably figured that any one of them could have slipped away and opened it.

Edited March 11, 2023 by fishcakes

[LadyChatts]

2 hours ago, Morrissey said:

It makes no sense that the other four wouldn't unanimously suspect Carolyn to have the idol. They must have left a good chunk of crucial details and conversations on the editing floor. 

Matthew (guy with arm in sling) needs to curb his enthusiasm. Proclaiming in front of EVERYONE that he's been preparing for Survivor for a long time is the second dumb move he's made. And we have 30+ more days to go. 

Helen mentioned in her interview that she would have expected Carolyn to totally flip out (like start screaming) if she found the idol, so clearly she can play it cool when she needs to.  I'm still trying to figure out if she's really out there or if that's all an act, or if she's just really playing it up.  I still can't believe Carolyn wasn't on anyone's radar, though.  It was funny how everyone was suspicious of each other and coming up with the most random reasons why.  I'll be curious to read other exit interviews from her tribe and see if this is touched on, although they could always lie and claim they knew she had it but the show didn't edit it that way.

Edited March 11, 2023 by LadyChatts

[Hanahope]

Carolyn is fun, just like so many prior male ‘characters’ like Shane or Tony

i was surprised Sarah wasn’t voted out, not having a vote and losing the competition 

Edited March 13, 2023 by Hanahope

[Lamb18]

On 3/10/2023 at 1:47 PM, Taeolas said:

That's probably intentional on the producer's part. They want US to be confused so when it comes up later, we'll want to go back and figure out where we got confused and why. Not showing Carolyn reading the notes and setting things up so she seemed to be in a panic to replace the bag before being discovered furthers that story. 

 

In reality, Carolyn probably had all the time in the world, and likely was filmed reading the notes like the others were, and probably put the bag back with lots of time to spare. But the editors were/are having fun with us. 

They will probably do one of those flashbacks in gray on a future episode showing Carolyn reading the instructions and saying "real idol" and "fake idol."