All Episodes Discussion

[JudyObscure]

8 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

And she did not deserve to die the way she did.

If only she wore her seat belt.

Nobody deserves to die in a car wreck, but, every year, thousands of people do.  That's why we all know to wear our seatbelts, and any mother of two children should have a very strong seatbelt habit for their sake if not her own.

We all know about Diana's charity work because the press followed her every time she went out to fulfill what is considered the work of the royal "firm."  Every day the London times publishes the royal schedule and Diana actually spent far less time in charity  work than the Queen, Prince Charles or Princess Anne.  The head of one of Princess Anne's charities said she would rather have one Princess Anne than a hundred Princess Dianas because Anne actually worked and didn't just pose for pictures.

I don't blame Diana for her failed marriage, that can happen to anyone whatever age the were when they got married.  I just didn't like the way she aired all her dirty laundry to the press when it's always been understood that the royals in particular try to keep these things private. To me it seemed like her attempt to get everyone on her side and make the Queen and Prince Charles look terrible when they had tried so hard to help her, and while they were not in a position to defend themselves.  There was so much the palace kept hushed up, for her sake, over the years -- she fired over 60 servants for things like not lining her shoes up the way she wanted them,  her tantrums,  her affairs with sports stars,  her trouble with the police w after she made hundreds of calls to a married man's home.  She really did seem like a perpetual teenager long after she was in her thirties.  Then she repaid all their discretion on her behalf by complaining about them on TV.

I do like Prince William, but I think his father set him a fine example of duty and caring. 

[Spartan Girl]

If nothing else, Will seems to have learned from his parents' mistakes. He and Kate seem happy together.

[cooksdelight]

12 hours ago, auntjess said:

If the Palace had let Charles marry Camilla when they were young

I thought it was because Charles dragged his heels and never proposed. I can't remember which book, but it said he never got around to proposing so she got married to spite him. And that they spent the night together on his private train, the night before the wedding. And Diana found out.

[Spartan Girl]

To be fair, Charles did publicly admit he had been unfaithful long before Diana's infamous interview. His whole "I stayed faithful until the marriage was irrevocably broken" made me roll my eyes. I hate it when cheaters claim the marriage was already long over, making it sound like they weren't technically cheating. Until the ring is off, you are living separately, and you've gotten a divorce, you're still married and it's still cheating.

[saber5055]

For everyone who hasn't had enough Scott Peterson, he's got a two-hour show on Oxygen tonight. New evidence will be revealed to prove his innocence in killing his pregnant wife (and dumping her into the ocean).

[Calamity Jane]

8 minutes ago, saber5055 said:

For everyone who hasn't had enough Scott Peterson, he's got a two-hour show on Oxygen tonight. New evidence will be revealed to prove his innocence in killing his pregnant wife (and dumping her into the ocean).

Not sure I can watch that because he just gives me the pip.  The mental gymnastics required to believe that it's coincidence/deep, mysterious plot that Laci ended up in the water just where Scott happened to go THE DAY SHE DISAPPEARED are just too much for me.  

[UsernameFatigue]

19 hours ago, Calamity Jane said:

If she had had her old security, there was probably at least a better chance that she would not have been in a limo being driven by a drunk driver that night.  It was really unfortunate that her wanting to make Dr. Khan jealous led her to take up with the Fayed family.  The father's attempts to capitalize on that brief fling just nauseated me, as well as his trying to shuffle the responsibility for the accident off HIS employee on to some vast conspiracy to get Diana, or Dodi, or the family, or..... Diana had many flaws, it can't be denied, but she did a lot of good in the world, and I do love seeing her sons carrying on that good.  They seem to have inherited her good qualities without all the psychological damage.  Kudos to both her and Charles for that.  

 I wasn't going to watch this show as it seems like the rehashing of Diana's life and death has been done to death (no pun intended). However I did watch it, and thought it was well done. Actually the only part that annoyed me was the psychic friend who said the Diana had the emotional age of a 14 year old, because she wanted to make the man she loved jealous. Women (and men!) of all ages do that to attempt to win back the person they love. I don't even have to be psychic - just mildly observant - to know that. 

Last fall Prince William and Kate visited the local university where I live. I was lucky enough to be in the front row (behind the security fence of course) to see them onstage for a ceremony. The had an event packed day with no time to do a walk about, and after the ceremony they were being whisked to the gym to watch part of a volleyball game. As they descended the stage, William took Kate's hand and broke away from security and the handlers to walk in the opposite direction to the front of the stage where dignitaries had been sitting, to greet a First Nations Elder woman. It had been pointed out by the chief of her band to William and Kate that her grandparents had met the Queen and Prince Phillip in the early 70's. William took a few unscheduled minutes to talk to her and acknowledge that their grandparents had met years ago. Watching this exchange which was obviously not planned I did think about how much William takes after his mom. 

Edited May 7, 2017 by UsernameFatigue

[psychoticstate]

15 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Like I said in another thread, Diana had her faults, but I can't judge her too harshly when I remember how young she was when she got married --nineteen!-- and the fact that her husband was in love with another woman did not help whatever issues she already had. She and Charles were two incompatible people that never should have gotten married, plain and simple.

Nobody is perfect. She was no saint, for sure, but that does not change all the good she did in the world. And she did not deserve to die the way she did.

If only she wore her seat belt.

Exactly.  Diana did have her faults but she was a teenager when her grandmother and the Queen Mother conspired to match her up with Charles.  Nobody gave any thought to whether they were compatible or had any common interests.  It was simply that Charles was expected to marry, needed to marry, and Diana had the right pedigree.  

She certainly made mistakes in airing their dirty laundry but given the pressures of her life, her eating disorder and her own emotional issues from her childhood, I suppose it's not completely surprising.  Charles too made a mistake with his Dimbleby interview so neither was innocent.

It's tragic that Diana did not keep her security detail. If she had, it's likely Henri Paul would never have been driving that night, the car would never have reached such speeds and she would have had her seat belt on.    She had always been a firm wearer of her seat belt beforehand; it's been said that she followed Dodi's lead during the brief time she was with him and he did not wear one.

I thought the program was well done.  I'm glad that they did not present the Diana-Dodi affair as a great love match because it was anything but.  Dodi's apartment having so many photos and even a painting of Diana after only a month was borderline creepy. Watching the footage of the accident and her funeral filled me with terrible sadness, the same sadness I felt back in 1997.  What a waste.  For all her faults, Diana had a great impact and influence on the world. I recall how terrified people were over the AIDS virus, with the fear that you could catch it simply by touching someone afflicted with it. Seeing Princess Diana shaking the hand of an AIDS patient was monumental.  She brought British fashion and designers to the world stage.  She made the monarchy seem less stuffy and stiff.  And most importantly, her biggest legacy is her two children, who are following in her footsteps with their charitable work and the way they seem approachable and more down to earth. 

[auntjess]

9 hours ago, biakbiak said:

lot that was tagged as weird was conservation, global warming and environmental charities. I get that there were other things but he was denounced for investing in what is common place today. 

I'm thinking of the homeopathy, and things of that ilk.

5 hours ago, cooksdelight said:

I thought it was because Charles dragged his heels and never proposed.

I understood she wasn't a virgin, and so was deemed unsuitable.

[JudyObscure]

It's so often repeated that Diana was 19 when she got married, but she didn't stay 19.  She was in her 30's when she was having affairs and tantrums and doing things like not wearing her seatbelt because the man she was out with wasn't wearing his.  I was married just after my 20th birthday, lots of my friends were younger, we were all held responsible for ourselves just like the 18 and 19 year-old military troops.  I remember when Diana, then in her thirties bought herself a foreign car, although it was traditional for the royals to support British companies.  The big British car companies were upset, but everyone  else blamed her "advisors".  She was never, ever held responsible for her own actions.

4 hours ago, psychoticstate said:

  She had always been a firm wearer of her seat belt beforehand; it's been said that she followed Dodi's lead during the brief time she was with him and he did not wear one.

It's also been said, by the same person, (Trevor Rees-Jones) that she followed Dodi's lead in telling the driver to go faster and lose the paparazzi, with both Dodi and Diana laughing as they egged him on. 

Diana's famous picture holding the hand of an Aids patient was in 1991.  People had been talking about Aids all through the eighties, the big LiveAid benefit concert was in 1985, there were dozens of films and documentaries and specials, all teaching lessons about how Aids was not contagious, Doris Day kissed Rock Hudson on camera while he had Aids in 1985.   I think the "Diana taught us about Aids," thing is just one more exaggerated legend attached to her name.

I'm sure I wouldn't give her a second thought if she was just an ordinary celebrity with some fans and some detractors, but Diana's death stopped the entire TV and press coverage for weeks.  There has been nothing like it before or since and it all just seems so calculated and overblown to me.  The truly sainted Mother Teresa died at the same time and barely got a mention.

Edited May 7, 2017 by JudyObscure

[auntjess]

1 hour ago, JudyObscure said:

There has been nothing like it before or since and it all just seems so calculated and overblown to me. 

I saw all the people on the street weeping, and all the flowers and thought that this was a far cry from the "stiff upper lip: British who lived through the Blitz.

 

1 hour ago, JudyObscure said:

It's so often repeated that Diana was 19 when she got married, but she didn't stay 19.

I had the advantage of knowing the marriage wouldn't work, because when they did their engagement interview, she was exactly like my cousin's first wife (know even during the marriage as "Bud's first wife,") and even had that coy way of looking up to look at you. 
Maybe I should  have called the embassy, and warned them.

[CaughtOnTape]

So I guess I'm the only one that noticed that dude's eyebrows?

I was mesmerized by them the entire show.  Good God.

I don't care what she did publicly or personally or otherwise.  Despite BOTH the palace and her trying to make it my business, it wasn't and so I paid little attention to it.  Regardless of all of that, the way she died was still sad.  The fact that she was taken from her boys whom she clearly loved and wanted the best for is sad.  And I think what we all tend to forget is that in the end, she was their mother.  And they have to relive this every single time people decide they want to weigh in with their opinions on what happened to her and how much she did or did not deserve what happened to her.  

Prince Charles was never the villain in my eyes.  He put a lot into perspective to me when he answered Matt Lauer honestly in an interview if he was looking forward to becoming king.  His response, without missing a beat was along the lines of....well I realize for the world it's exciting and new but you have to remember, this will have happened because MY MOTHER passed away.

I have no judgments for anyone in this family.  They are no different than anyone else.  Wearing seatbelts, not wearing seatbelts.  Selfishly acting when you feel you've been hurt in a relationship.  Becoming a 14 year old when you want attention....I challenge every person alive to honestly say they've never done any of this.

I remember that day and it's still very sad to hear people make disgusting remarks about her and the family as if they are void of any flaws themselves.

[psychoticstate]

59 minutes ago, CaughtOnTape said:

I don't care what she did publicly or personally or otherwise.  Despite BOTH the palace and her trying to make it my business, it wasn't and so I paid little attention to it.  Regardless of all of that, the way she died was still sad.  The fact that she was taken from her boys whom she clearly loved and wanted the best for is sad.  And I think what we all tend to forget is that in the end, she was their mother.  And they have to relive this every single time people decide they want to weigh in with their opinions on what happened to her and how much she did or did not deserve what happened to her.  

Prince Charles was never the villain in my eyes.  He put a lot into perspective to me when he answered Matt Lauer honestly in an interview if he was looking forward to becoming king.  His response, without missing a beat was along the lines of....well I realize for the world it's exciting and new but you have to remember, this will have happened because MY MOTHER passed away.

I have no judgments for anyone in this family.  They are no different than anyone else.  Wearing seatbelts, not wearing seatbelts.  Selfishly acting when you feel you've been hurt in a relationship.  Becoming a 14 year old when you want attention....I challenge every person alive to honestly say they've never done any of this.

I remember that day and it's still very sad to hear people make disgusting remarks about her and the family as if they are void of any flaws themselves.

Very well said. 

[walnutqueen]

2 hours ago, CaughtOnTape said:

So I guess I'm the only one that noticed that dude's eyebrows?

I was mesmerized by them the entire show.  Good God.

I don't care what she did publicly or personally or otherwise.  Despite BOTH the palace and her trying to make it my business, it wasn't and so I paid little attention to it.  Regardless of all of that, the way she died was still sad.  The fact that she was taken from her boys whom she clearly loved and wanted the best for is sad.  And I think what we all tend to forget is that in the end, she was their mother.  And they have to relive this every single time people decide they want to weigh in with their opinions on what happened to her and how much she did or did not deserve what happened to her.  

Prince Charles was never the villain in my eyes.  He put a lot into perspective to me when he answered Matt Lauer honestly in an interview if he was looking forward to becoming king.  His response, without missing a beat was along the lines of....well I realize for the world it's exciting and new but you have to remember, this will have happened because MY MOTHER passed away.

I have no judgments for anyone in this family.  They are no different than anyone else.  Wearing seatbelts, not wearing seatbelts.  Selfishly acting when you feel you've been hurt in a relationship.  Becoming a 14 year old when you want attention....I challenge every person alive to honestly say they've never done any of this.

I remember that day and it's still very sad to hear people make disgusting remarks about her and the family as if they are void of any flaws themselves.

I applaud your post.  THANK YOU.

[Calamity Jane]

Today's episode, "Lost in Sin City"  -- YOLANDA McClary!  Looking really good, and as always contributing good input.  So happy to see she found a place on my TV post Cold Justice.  I will always wonder if her limiting her role on that show had less to do with family and more to do with Kelly Siegler's coming legal woes. I see that Kelly will be on Oxygen in a re-boot of Cold Justice, but Yolanda was not mentioned.  I wish they would make Yolanda a regular on Dateline or another show. Or have they?  That would be great news!  I admit I'm getting old and forgetful - I think I've seen her somewhere else recently but can't recall where.  Hope, hope, hope she'll be on Dateline regularly.  I think she is awesome.  

[Lovecat]

14 hours ago, CaughtOnTape said:

Despite BOTH the palace and her trying to make it my business, it wasn't and so I paid little attention to it.  Regardless of all of that, the way she died was still sad.  The fact that she was taken from her boys whom she clearly loved and wanted the best for is sad.  And I think what we all tend to forget is that in the end, she was their mother.  And they have to relive this every single time people decide they want to weigh in with their opinions on what happened to her and how much she did or did not deserve what happened to her. 

This is the thing that gets me, every single time the subject of Diana comes up--not the fairytale wedding, the collapse of her marriage, the affairs, the tabloid stories, charity work, or fashion sense, and not the way she died--the indelible images of those boys walking behind her casket in the funeral procession.  What an absolutely horrible thing to have to mourn your beloved mother in front of the entire world, and how awful to have those wounds picked open over and over again, for the rest of your life.  It's a testament to both of their parents that they've grown up to be as (seemingly) well-adjusted as they are. 

I'm not sure what planet I was inhabiting when Diana died, but I was either unaware of or had forgotten about Haznat Khan, so the notion that Diana was using Dodi al Fayed to make him jealous was news to me. 

That Mohammed al Fayed is an odious little troll, IMHO, with his conspiracy theories and other general shit-stirring.  Sir, if you hadn't been so hot to fling your playboy son at one of the most famous women in the world, perhaps her sons would still have their mother, hmmm?  Conspiracy my ass.  Covering your own ass is more like it.

[Calamity Jane]

2 hours ago, Lovecat said:

This is the thing that gets me, every single time the subject of Diana comes up--not the fairytale wedding, the collapse of her marriage, the affairs, the tabloid stories, charity work, or fashion sense, and not the way she died--the indelible images of those boys walking behind her casket in the funeral procession.  What an absolutely horrible thing to have to mourn your beloved mother in front of the entire world, and how awful to have those wounds picked open over and over again, for the rest of your life.  It's a testament to both of their parents that they've grown up to be as (seemingly) well-adjusted as they are. 

I'm not sure what planet I was inhabiting when Diana died, but I was either unaware of or had forgotten about Haznat Khan, so the notion that Diana was using Dodi al Fayed to make him jealous was news to me. 

That Mohammed al Fayed is an odious little troll, IMHO, with his conspiracy theories and other general shit-stirring.  Sir, if you hadn't been so hot to fling your playboy son at one of the most famous women in the world, perhaps her sons would still have their mother, hmmm?  Conspiracy my ass.  Covering your own ass is more like it.

The affair with Dr. Khan was not widely known when Diana died, in fact I hadn't heard about it until a few years ago.  Its remaining largely unknown is what allowed Fayed Sr. to get away with the nonsense he was trying to peddle about Diana's being about to marry Dodi, whom she had known only a very brief time.  Diana's infatuation with Dr. Khan made the whole Fayed thing make so much more sense.  

And whatever her motives for her charitable activities, at least she chose good ones and used the intense spotlight trained on her to promote the world's knowledge of important issues.  I especially appreciated her campaign against land mines, a cause that needed attention.  Yes, others also espoused the same causes, but Diana brought more attention than any other human on the planet could.  If that also brought her notice she craved, oh well.  She could have spent all her time after the divorce being Paris Hilton or any other vapid rich celebrity who just parties and shops.  

[partofme]

I've never been  huge Diana fan, but I don't understand how Charles and the Queen are the ones I'm supposed to feel sorry for.  IMO Charles is more guilty than Diana, if he had any balls he would have stood up to his family and refused to marry Diana.  But he did marry her and he couldn't even try to make the marriage work but was cheating on her starting on their honeymoon.  

[auntjess]

4 hours ago, Lovecat said:

What an absolutely horrible thing to have to mourn your beloved mother in front of the entire world, and how awful to have those wounds picked open over and over again, for the rest of your life

It is horrible, but equally horrible for others in similar situations.
I'm sure OJ's daughter, Sydney Simpson has a horrible time, as do other children who lost a parent in a high-profile situation.

[Guest]

Please consider this a reminder that the Be Civil rule applies to your fellow members.  It does not apply to the show, the people depicted on the show, the cast, etc.  Folks are free to say whatever they like - and however they'd like to say it - about anybody that is related to the show as long as it is not racist or homophobic etc.

[hoosiermom]

I am so pissed after watching tonight's episode. What a waste of time. I don't believe for a second she acted in self defense. I just want to scream but I guess posting my disappointment and rage will have to do. ?

[JudyObscure]

I went to bed at ten thinking it was a slam dunk that Cara was guilty and going to prison for manslaughter if not murder.  Guess not.  I saw a clip on the site saying that women in a mock jury all thought she was guilty because of her lack of emotion in the early moments. So did they get an all male jury who fell for the whiney little voice or what?  I haven't been this shocked since the minister's wife in Selmer Tennessee got away with shooting her husband in the back while he slept -- she had a mousey voice, too, come to think of it. 

I guess any woman, at any time, can pull out a gun and shoot her husband and say later that she was afraid of him. "I heard someone come in and I didn't think it was my husband because he wasn't due for ten minutes yet, plus I saw something blue and I thought I'd seen his blue shirt in the laundry, so I shot him."

Cara also did a lot of blaming the victim with "He told me that if anyone ever came in unannounced, I should squeeze my eyes shut and shoot."  She was just being an obedient little wifey doing what her husband told her to do.

Edited May 13, 2017 by JudyObscure

[Cupcake04]

On May 7, 2017 at 6:39 AM, JudyObscure said:

Nobody deserves to die in a car wreck, but, every year, thousands of people do.  That's why we all know to wear our seatbelts, and any mother of two children should have a very strong seatbelt habit for their sake if not her own.

We all know about Diana's charity work because the press followed her every time she went out to fulfill what is considered the work of the royal "firm."  Every day the London times publishes the royal schedule and Diana actually spent far less time in charity  work than the Queen, Prince Charles or Princess Anne.  The head of one of Princess Anne's charities said she would rather have one Princess Anne than a hundred Princess Dianas because Anne actually worked and didn't just pose for pictures.

I don't blame Diana for her failed marriage, that can happen to anyone whatever age the were when they got married.  I just didn't like the way she aired all her dirty laundry to the press when it's always been understood that the royals in particular try to keep these things private. To me it seemed like her attempt to get everyone on her side and make the Queen and Prince Charles look terrible when they had tried so hard to help her, and while they were not in a position to defend themselves.  There was so much the palace kept hushed up, for her sake, over the years -- she fired over 60 servants for things like not lining her shoes up the way she wanted them,  her tantrums,  her affairs with sports stars,  her trouble with the police w after she made hundreds of calls to a married man's home.  She really did seem like a perpetual teenager long after she was in her thirties.  Then she repaid all their discretion on her behalf by complaining about them on TV.

I do like Prince William, but I think his father set him a fine example of duty and caring. 

Wow. Just.......no words...just wow.

[LGGirl]

I fell asleep before the show ended but I figured she got off.    Her defense lawyer was pretty slick.  

I think she lured him there to try to get back with him but ended up killing him because she did not get what she want.  I just would like to know why he decided to go over if he had a girlfriend?

Her lack of emotion was chilling. 

[biakbiak]

I was shocked that there were only six jurors for a second degree murder case, I know jurisdictions vary bit I just assumed smaller juries were for lower level offenses and smaller civil cases.

[UsernameFatigue]

22 hours ago, LGGirl said:

I fell asleep before the show ended but I figured she got off.    Her defense lawyer was pretty slick.  

I think she lured him there to try to get back with him but ended up killing him because she did not get what she want.  I just would like to know why he decided to go over if he had a girlfriend?

Her lack of emotion was chilling. 

She had one of the smartest defense lawyers I have seen in a long time. 

Bolded part - that is exactly what my hubby said. If he had this girlfriend that he was so in love with and had started this new life, why go over? I guess Cara knew him pretty well.

I can't believe though that the jury bought that all her versions of what happened where because of shock? I my experience with traumatic events, the sequence is burned into my brain. I would not think that I shot someone while they were raping me; oh wait, no, they left and came back and then I shot them; wait - I didn't know who it was; wait - blah blah blah.

I thought it was interesting that though Cara was supposed to be in bed when this happened, when the police arrive and she comes out of the house she is dressed in capri pants and a top, and even has a lovely delicate necklace on. I never wear necklaces to bed - too easy to get broken when tossing and turning (or in Cara's case having passionate sex). So she took the time to put on a necklace after shooting her ex? Some shock. 

Hubby is going for jury duty in a month for a criminal case. I so wish it were me - I would love to serve on a jury in a criminal trial. I would also love to know if I would leave my common sense at the door which often seems to happen with some of these jurors. 

Edited May 14, 2017 by UsernameFatigue

[cooksdelight]

I don't know what to think about this case. Knowing that he developed a drinking problem, had a gambling addiction, taking oxycontin.... it can change a person and if he wasn't letting his other family members see this side of him, they would have no idea how angry he could be while under the influence. If he was home drinking all day, depressed, etc., it could make a person suicidal.

I say this from knowing a few people through the years who fell into the same cycle. It wasn't fun to be around them, and it was heartbreakingly sad at the same time.

Her calm demeanor was weird, but some people are just like that. There's a part of me that thinks she wanted him back for his money, and when he saw the pics and texts with her new boyfriend, he told her to go to hell and he wasn't coming back. It was stupid of him to go over there in the first place.

No matter where she goes or what she does, there will always be a cloud hanging over her. Did she do it on purpose, was it murder? I'll never know the answer for sure, since I don't know her and she's a different kind of person from what I've usually seen on the murder recaps on Dateline. 

Money makes people do crazy things.

[ButterQueen]

OMG, that Cara woman is so guilty.  I couldn't stand her smugness.  

Another stupid jury.

[CelticBlackCat]

2 hours ago, cooksdelight said:

I don't know what to think about this case. Knowing that he developed a drinking problem, had a gambling addiction, taking oxycontin.... it can change a person and if he wasn't letting his other family members see this side of him, they would have no idea how angry he could be while under the influence. If he was home drinking all day, depressed, etc., it could make a person suicidal.

I say this from knowing a few people through the years who fell into the same cycle. It wasn't fun to be around them, and it was heartbreakingly sad at the same time.

Her calm demeanor was weird, but some people are just like that. There's a part of me that thinks she wanted him back for his money, and when he saw the pics and texts with her new boyfriend, he told her to go to hell and he wasn't coming back. It was stupid of him to go over there in the first place.

No matter where she goes or what she does, there will always be a cloud hanging over her. Did she do it on purpose, was it murder? I'll never know the answer for sure, since I don't know her and she's a different kind of person from what I've usually seen on the murder recaps on Dateline. 

Money makes people do crazy things.

J.J. Rush's toxicology screen post-mortem in his autopsy showed he had very little alcohol and NO drugs, including OxyContin, in his system.  His family and girlfriend would have noticed a bizarre change in his personality if he had begun abusing substances.  The gambling problem was only alleged by Cara Ryan.  Her explanation that J.J. "Rushed" home with all his receipts because he couldn't wait for her to see what a good boy he was with his spending was ludicrous!  No man does that!  While it would have been better for him to have not gone over there, a sudden change in personality turning him into a rapist is unlikely.  I believe Cara set him up to come over to murder him because his money was cut off from her bank account and she knew she was losing him -- again.  Anything she says is suspect since she came up with ten versions of what happened that night.  She is nothing but a liar; that nonsense about getting the sequences wrong because she was in shock or traumatized is just that -- nonsense.

 

How the prosecutor ended up with a 5-man 1-woman jury is beyond me.  Did they not do a proper voir dire?  Did the prosecution not have their share of juror dismissals?

Edited May 14, 2017 by CelticBlackCat

[Stampiron]

24 minutes ago, ButterQueen said:

OMG, that Cara woman is so guilty.  I couldn't stand her smugness.  

Another stupid jury.

- They might have been a stupid jury, but we have to keep in mind that they didn't have the same case presented to them that we did. They certainly didn't have the interview segments we watched, which I know had a lot to do with cementing my opinion that she was guilty (though I'm pretty confident I would have thought she was guilty without them.) 

I was expecting the jury to cite a lack of evidence as their rationale, but judging by the two jurors they interviewed it seemed like they just believed her. But again, they didn't see the same stuff we saw. (Or maybe they were just stupid.)

- The victim's daughter seemed sweet and I felt bad for her, but listening to her also made me a little mad at her dad. What kind of guy surrenders the ability to buy his daughter a dress for a job interview? I don't have kids, but that just sounds like something a Dad would be so happy and proud to do, and he's gotta say "I have to check with Cara." That just baffles me.

- I wonder how a British attorney plays with an American jury? I mean, all other things being equal, is a British accent a plus or a minus? Obviously there are a lot more important factors than accent that impact how successful an attorney is at trial, but say for example you needed to pick between two attorneys for a trial in Texas and the only thing you could know about them was that one had a Texas drawl and the other didn't. You'd pick the one with the Texas accent (again, assuming that that's all you could know about them.)

Americans really like British accents in general - ask any Brit how many times they hear "I love your accent!" when they visit the states - but I wonder if it's a disadvantage in establishing trust with the jury, as compared to an accent that's more familiar to them. 

[UsernameFatigue]

I am baffled that the female juror who was interviewed basically said that she believed Cara because of the red marks on her wrists. But discounted that the red marks could have been from the handcuffs she was wearing in the police car? To me if someone was being restrained by someone holding them down, it would leave bruises, not red marks. And Cara was shown to be wrestling with the handcuffs in the police car. I don't see how the juror came to the conclusion that those red marks were caused by the ex.

Also besides the 10 versions of events told by Cara, how did her attorney explain that she said the house was dark, but the cops said when they arrived there were lights on all over the house? Another lie. 

Wasn't it Cara that said that she did not have a joint bank account with her husband? That his pay cheques went directly into a bank account with her name on it only - because of his gambling, etc.  But when they showed the paperwork that J.J. filed out to close the bank account he was listed as the primary account holder and Cara was listed as joint holder. Another lie?

It seems like the prosecution did not do its job in showing that anything this woman said should be questioned and not taken at face value. 

Edited May 14, 2017 by UsernameFatigue

[cooksdelight]

The defense had the advantage of having two mock trials, so they knew what type of juror to pick. The prosecution probably had no idea and didn't care that there were 5 men and 1 woman. They were probably happy, thinking women would be more sympathetic.

[UsernameFatigue]

2 hours ago, cooksdelight said:

The defense had the advantage of having two mock trials, so they knew what type of juror to pick. The prosecution probably had no idea and didn't care that there were 5 men and 1 woman. They were probably happy, thinking women would be more sympathetic.

That was so odd as when the defense attorney said that he thought women would be more sympathetic (before the mock trial) I thought "Nope, don't think so". You would think that the prosecution (depending on how much experience they have) would know that. It seems like they felt that there is no way that Cara could get off, and didn't present much of a case. Mind you this is one of the many Dateline shows that was 2 hours and could easily been one, so they dragged it out for so long I don't remember a lot of the prosecution's strategy. Or if they even had one. 

It is too bad that some of the obviously innocent people on trial could not get representation as thorough and competent as Cara had. 

[Lovecat]

20 hours ago, CelticBlackCat said:

How the prosecutor ended up with a 5-man 1-woman jury is beyond me.  Did they not do a proper voir dire?  Did the prosecution not have their share of juror dismissals?

I was the only woman on a 12-person federal jury (civil case).  It happens.

[partofme]

At first I didn't understand how she was going to be able to get off, and it was obvious from the beginning that she wasn't in jail, but then I remembered that this is Florida and they believe in stand your ground.  All the defense probably needed to do was get a few gun nuts on the jury.

[rwgrab]

I couldn't stand the Cara's defense lawyer saying that the only issue with her statements was "the sequence" of all the events.  I suppose you could make that argument, but that's kind of a big deal.  Because her supposition is that either a) he was actively attacking her and she shot him or b) he came back and she was afraid or c) she thought it was a random intruder.  I think I heard all three of those if I'm remembering correctly.  Any of those really changes the situation for my mind if I'm on that jury.

So then the jurors said they bought that her memory would have been affected by the trauma.  Ok, then, but in that case don't you have to throw out her entire recollection of events?  Then you're left with texts she sent to JJ saying "come on over" along with the physical evidence that he was shot as he was leaving her room.  I was surprised they wound up at "not guilty" so quickly.

[Hank3]

From what I saw on the show, I came to a guilty conclusion.  As another poster said, they never proved that he was addicted to prescription medication, alcohol, or gambling.  It was all from what Cara said.  Her responses seemed very coy and her smug look was bothersome.  

[Jules2307]

On 5/7/2017 at 6:08 PM, JudyObscure said:

It's so often repeated that Diana was 19 when she got married, but she didn't stay 19.  She was in her 30's when she was having affairs and tantrums and doing things like not wearing her seatbelt because the man she was out with wasn't wearing his.  I was married just after my 20th birthday, lots of my friends were younger, we were all held responsible for ourselves just like the 18 and 19 year-old military troops.  I remember when Diana, then in her thirties bought herself a foreign car, although it was traditional for the royals to support British companies.  The big British car companies were upset, but everyone  else blamed her "advisors".  She was never, ever held responsible for her own actions.

It's also been said, by the same person, (Trevor Rees-Jones) that she followed Dodi's lead in telling the driver to go faster and lose the paparazzi, with both Dodi and Diana laughing as they egged him on. 

Diana's famous picture holding the hand of an Aids patient was in 1991.  People had been talking about Aids all through the eighties, the big LiveAid benefit concert was in 1985, there were dozens of films and documentaries and specials, all teaching lessons about how Aids was not contagious, Doris Day kissed Rock Hudson on camera while he had Aids in 1985.   I think the "Diana taught us about Aids," thing is just one more exaggerated legend attached to her name.

I'm sure I wouldn't give her a second thought if she was just an ordinary celebrity with some fans and some detractors, but Diana's death stopped the entire TV and press coverage for weeks.  There has been nothing like it before or since and it all just seems so calculated and overblown to me.  The truly sainted Mother Teresa died at the same time and barely got a mention.

I'm sorry but one of my absolute pet peeves is the deification of Mother Teresa. Mother Teresa was extremely privileged and despite her vow of poverty, carried those attitudes her entire life. The way she treated the Untouchables was deplorable. But she's sainted and the stifled woman who exerted a bit of influence on her own life by buying the car she wanted, is seen as a bad person.

[cooksdelight]

Dateline is doing a better job of hiding who the killer is, because of the way he was dressed and the setting, I really didn't think the husband did it. Not until the end when the camera pulled back and you saw him wearing orange pants, after he was found guilty of all three murders.

Were it not for his ex-wife, he'd probably have gotten away with it.

[partofme]

I thought it was obvious from the video of the seven year old girl who knew that her dad wasn't home when Grandma was killed that he was guilty.

Edited May 20, 2017 by partofme

[saber5055]

I was fooled by Killer Dad wearing a regular shirt, too, and figured he got off. The boyfriend JR seemed guilty and I thought maybe he was dead since they kept showing that one photo over and over when they talked about him. I was surprised to see him in the taped courtroom segment. Then all the evidence made it obvious Killer Dad did it, so I was disgusted when the first jury was hung. Thanks goodness he did get convicted for life. Look at all those years he was free ... a life sentence was too good for him. We talk here about not understanding why people kill a spouse instead of getting a divorce. In this case, they DID get a divorce and there you go, if someone is a murderer, divorce or no, they still kill the person they supposedly used to love. Those defense attorneys ... how can they sleep at night knowing they are trying to get murderers set free. When they concentrated on the ex wife being a "liar," all I could think was, if you want a liar, look at your client. And Jordyne the daughter really could benefit from some therapy, whether she thinks so or not.

[walnutqueen]

When the defense attorneys tried to float the notion of suicide for both the ex wife AND the mother?   I choked on my beverage & came close to dying myself.  Can I sue them?

I thought Dad did it from the start - the collared shirt & deceptive background didn't fool me, Dateline.  Nice try, though.

[LGGirl]

I thought this was one if the better Datelines.  I am so glad the first trial was a mistrial and those two jurors who voted guilty held out.  Even better, he was found guilty the second time around. 

I feel for his daughter.  His ex wife did the right thing in the end but should have told the truth in beginning, she would have saved two people. 

[cooksdelight]

9 minutes ago, LGGirl said:

I feel for his daughter.  His ex wife did the right thing in the end but should have told the truth in beginning, she would have saved two people

Same here. The daughter needs therapy, badly, to take a look at what the evidence and her step-mother say. 

And I am sure the woman beats herself up every day for not saying something after the first murder.

[Lizzing]

I believe the dad was guilty, but I'm not sure that I would have voted to convict him of the mother's murder.  Of course this is based only on what was shown on this episode, so what actually transpired at trial could very likely change my opinion.  WRT the mother's murder, all that was established was that she was dead and left her house with someone else.  The broken coffee cup could have dropped in a struggle, or she could have been drunk from her night out and just dropped it out of clumsiness.  There was blood, but it was never shown to be fresh blood, only her blood and it was found after the cops had been through the house.  The purse was gone, but never found, so it is of no real value.  The skull was found but only ID'd years later and no other bones were found to establish a cause of death.  There was zero physical evidence tying the dad to the murder or the scene, and only the testimony of the ex wife to establish alibi/lack of alibi.  The motive was pretty shaky too, in that if he wanted full custody, he was on the way to getting it since the ex boyfriend and others were going to back up that the mom was a drunk.  For me, that's not enough to say, beyond a reasonable doubt, that the dad killed the mom.  I *think* he did, but there's not enough proof.  I also think there probably could have been sufficient proof if (a) the cops treated the missing persons report a lot more seriously at the outset and discovered the blood evidence earlier, which may have led them to question the dad separately from his wife and bust his alibi before she heard what he said and corroborated it, as that's who the grandmother suspected, and (b) the cops treated the found human skull better than "oh, probably just another illegal perishing in the vast wastelands" and done the DNA test earlier to facilitate the finding of other remains that might have led to a definitive cause of death that could have been tied to the dad.

I would have voted to convict him on the grandmother & neighbor, however.  The ex wife's alibi/non alibi testimony was bolstered by the daughter's contemporaneous recollection.  He owned a gun like the one used in the shooting, and had matching ammo.  His "I sold the gun to some guy" story was unbelievable, especially for someone with a LEO adjacent career.  Plus, the description of the shooter, as generic as it was, at least matched his physical dimensions.  Finally, the motive worked here because the grandmother won her custody battle and was a PITA of the dad and his wife.

So, I can see how a jury could be hung on the mother's murder, but not so much on the grandmother & neighbor's murder.  But at least he's where he ought to be.  And it's a shame they didn't charge his wife with accessory after the fact for destroying evidence by laundering the clothes he wore after she knew he'd shot the two women.

[biakbiak]

Not only the outfit but when Dennis interviewed the daughter she talked about how her dad would always call her at night to tell her he was okay and Dennis said "even now? You got a call last night from him?" And she said yes. During the show it played as if he was saying even now that your an adult not even now that he is in prison. 

I hope the daughter has some peace but it's awful that she basically has no one. I wonder how she gets along with her stepsister and half brother and what they think about their mom and his guilt.

[patty1h]

I fell asleep on this one, right about the time that the mother-in-law and friend were killed, while the story was still being played out and clues were pointing to the boyfriend JR.   Not surprised that the ex-husband did it - that's the result in most of these cases.  I do wonder how the ex-husband thought that no one would suspect him in the MIL murder, especially during an ugly custody fight between them.  Oh, a random execution in the MIL's driveway?  That could be anyone! 

[biakbiak]

9 minutes ago, patty1h said:

do wonder how the ex-husband thought that no one would suspect him in the MIL murder, especially during an ugly custody fight between them

He had his wife lie for him again. After they divorced she went to the police and said she had lied about him being home both times.

I liked the sister saying basically "I am not stupid, if I was trying to frame him I would have put the money clip near the crime scene not in the backyard!"

[walnutqueen]

I was surprised to hear that his mother was ready to testify on the ex-wife's behalf at the custody hearing.  It's not too often that a Mom goes against her own son ...

[A.Ham]

So I started with, husband is guilty (because really, at this rate, that is always the presumption I go with until I'm given reasonable doubt). But then I thought the boyfriend was the likelier suspect. Fell asleep, only to wake up to the kid talking about how dad was not home when he'd said he had been in the restroom. I think he is as guilty as sin. I feel sorry for the daughter, she is hanging on for dear life to the belief her father did not kill her mother and grandmother, and that poor neighbor.

I also wondered if the second wife began to confess for fear of being next rather than an actual sense of justice. I wonder if she felt vulnerable once the first jury was hung, because, there she was, having testified against him and he was free as a bird. Not a good situation to be in, though he would have been a fool to do something to her as well.

Was I the only one who had a negative reaction to that darn horseshoe mustache he sported all throughout? So ugly. I had this irrational impulse to reach across the screen and swipe it off his face. Just me? Ok then.