All Episodes Discussion

[ari333]

The sister (or any civilian) doesn't have any say in whether someone is arrested or goes to trial for murder. I view it as Ina123 does, that the payment was in lieu of a civil case like the Goldman/OJ one, where Goldman won (and, as far as I know, has never seen a dime from). At least the sister did get (an undisclosed) amount of money settlement. So there's that. A small justice.

I think we are on the same page. I just didn't state it clearly. I think the civil suit should have been pursued against this woman. And I am glad the sister got something if it took the money out of the wife's hands. I agree.

 

Also, I think the bf was coaxed... by her... into shooting this man. I don't think he got a wild hair and went to kill him. He had already been with this woman for four years. Yet when the husband got a gf - 90 days or so in.  then.... here we go That screams wife's coaxing to me.

I know the civil thing is not as satisfying to the family as the criminal one. But it is something.

[saber5055]

I think the civil suit should have been pursued against this woman.

 

I totally miss this point in your post; sorry about that. Yeah, a civil case would have been even more INTERESTING than the money payoff. And yes, I wish the sister had pursued that as well. Although maybe they are expensive (especially if one loses) so settling for the money was at least a small victory. 

 

Any yes, good point about the husband just starting an affair, then the wife, who had been cheating around for at least four YEARS, is all "gotta teach hubby a lesson" and goes all stalker on him and the other woman.

[ari333]

I totally miss this point in your post; sorry about that. Yeah, a civil case would have been even more INTERESTING than the money payoff. And yes, I wish the sister had pursued that as well. Although maybe they are expensive (especially if one loses) so settling for the money was at least a small victory. 

 

Any yes, good point about the husband just starting an affair, then the wife, who had been cheating around for at least four YEARS, is all "gotta teach hubby a lesson" and goes all stalker on him and the other woman.

 

Yes this.

ANd I hadn't thought about the cost of the suit to the sister. Maybe she didnt' have the means to pursue it.  I guess I just hate to see the wife get away with so much.

[UsernameFatigue]

All that crying when he was found guilty = so fake. Funny, he didn't cry over his wife.

 

That is exactly what my hubby said! His lawyer looked very embarassed to be holding onto his client for two minutes while he had a melt down/felt sorry for himself.

 

From what I heard there were two owners and an "assistant" - aka the mistress who worked there. Did I hear that right ?

 

Yep, the mistress who the wife hired because she felt sorry for her as she had 5 kids, no hubby and needed a job. I really hate when Dateline leaves out information like why Rene was not a suspect. It seems like in the two hour shows they waste so much time repeating info instead of filling the time with information that many people seem to want to know the answers to. Ugh.

[pigs-in-space]

It would have been interesting to see a list of the "stolen" comics, enough to fill two (imaginary) boxes. And the most valuable comics are in a box in the back room and not behind that locked glass cabinet door? Yeah ... just no.

 

And did I hear correctly, or did he say years later that the box had been filled with Little Golden Books, not comics?  I know it had been years, but you'd think if you were lying about something that big to cover up a murder, you'd try to remember the details like that that you came up with.

[UsernameFatigue]

Regarding the 'stolen boxes of comic books' he did put in an insurance claim and got over $12,000 for them. They briefly showed a hand written list he had compiled of the supposedly stolen comics. I don't remember him saying years later that the boxes had been filled with Little Golden Books, but it wouldn't surprise me. Also wouldn't surprise me if he submitted an insurance claim for comic books that were never actually stolen.

[Ina123]

You have to find a lawyer to take the case also. It's possible they all thought it was a no win case.

[Hank3]

Wow! That bedroom. I'm the first person to call myself messy, but that room hadn't been cleaned in months. No wonder they had separate bedrooms.

 

 

I lawl'd.  That bedroom, like Keith mentioned, was straight out of Hoarders.

[biakbiak]

I thought the bedroom and her other behavior (isolating herself, weight gain, etc.) was an indication of depression not that absolves her of the murder but I was sort of surprised it didn't come up.

[glowlights]

I thought the bedroom and her other behavior (isolating herself, weight gain, etc.) was an indication of depression not that absolves her of the murder but I was sort of surprised it didn't come up.

 

... or addiction.

[saber5055]

Josh Mankewitz was hilariously condescending to the husband, who he interviewed from jail.

At least he was interviewed from JAIL. So there's that consolation!

Also, the wheelchair sympathy ploy used during the second trial - bullshit, I say.

I know ... a vitamin B-12 deficiency from the "poor quality" of jail food? That's a first for me. No one eats a more poorly balanced diet than I do and I can walk just fine. Although I couldn't help but think "Dueling Wheelchairs" with the paralyzed phone caller Spiderman collector in one, too.

 

I watched a PBS show on memory this week. It showed a study conducted by a university. Each volunteer subject was asked to remember a crime he/she had committed. None of the people had ever even been in trouble with police, but by the third interview, after "planted" memories, each person could give details of their "crime." Even though no crime had ever been committed. 

 

The university was made to give up the experiment because of the impact on criminal witness interrogations. But it did remind me of police inteviews where a person is told over and over he/she killed someone, then that person finally confesses.

Edited February 12, 2016 by saber5055

[zxy556575]

But it did remind me of police inteviews where a person is told over and over he/she killed someone, then that person finally confesses.

 

Coerced false confessions are the scourge of police work. I'd like to hear what Joe Kenda has to say on the subject.

 

As for memory itself, my 92-year-old father emailed me just yesterday and mentioned his "vivid" recall of a certain event in WWII that absolutely did not happen the way he thought it had. Memory is shit, people!

[AnnieBeez]

I snickered when Michael George was crying like an asshole and thought, you better dry those tears before you head into prison, jerkwad. Damn, buck up! Also, the wheelchair sympathy ploy used during the second trial - bullshit, I say.

 

Whenever a jury convicts on strictly circumstantial evidence, I always wonder why that bitch Casey Anthony didn't get the axe. That decision still burns my ass.

Thank you! I watched a circumstantial evidence conviction one tonight (missionary guy) and kept thinking the same thing. I'd say they had even LESS on him. 

[JudyObscure]

Thank you! I watched a circumstantial evidence conviction one tonight (missionary guy) and kept thinking the same thing. I'd say they had even LESS on him.

Glad to know Missionary Guy went to prison. I fell asleep while the jury was out. He was such a smarmy phony, I would have convicted him on his soft, smiling voice alone. Forty hours a week of text messages to a pretty young slut? Between this guy and Bill Cosby, "mentor," has taken on a whole new meaning.

Andrea can't sound as disbelieving as the Crypt Keeper, or as condescending as Josh, but her disgusted, turned down mouth speaks volumes while the guilty people keep blabbing on. The longer Missionary Guy talked to her, the worse the red hives around his mouth grew. You can't hide your lying hives.

[Ina123]

I wish a movie called "A Death in Canaan" was available. It was a case that woke me up to how innocent people can be made to confess. Wish Dateline would do an episode on it.

This is the case of Peter Reilly of Connecticut who comes home and finds his mother stabbed to death. I forget how old he was but they grilled him for hours. One thing I remember after several hours he was so tired and the detective put in his head that he blacked out and just couldn't remember stabbing her. Peter is so worn out he begins to believe it. It all went downhill from there.

I remember Conchata Ferrell was in it and played the part of the woman who took him in and got help for him. She also led the uprising by the community against the way he was treated.

Here's the story:

http://truthinjustice.org/peter-reilly.htm

http://articles.courant.com/2013-09-27/news/hc-op-connery-peter-reilly-murder-case-justice-092-20130927_1_state-police-investigation-barbara-gibbons-new-trial

Edited February 15, 2016 by Ina123

[walnutqueen]

I watched a PBS show on memory this week. It showed a study conducted by a university. Each volunteer subject was asked to remember a crime he/she had committed. None of the people had ever even been in trouble with police, but by the third interview, after "planted" memories, each person could give details of their "crime." Even though no crime had ever been committed. 

 

The university was made to give up the experiment because of the impact on criminal witness interrogations. But it did remind me of police inteviews where a person is told over and over he/she killed someone, then that person finally confesses.

 

For anyone interested, you can watch the Nova episode "Memory Hackers" here:

http://www.pbs.org/video/2365663085/

Edited February 15, 2016 by walnutqueen

[saber5055]

Thanks, Walnut, for posting that link. I watch so much PBS, I don't remember which show is which. But I did see Memory Hackers being rerun over the weekend, so maybe in some markets people can still see it via television. Check local listings!

[glowlights]

For anyone still wondering what's up with the civil case, this article gives imo a clear, concise explanation of the difficult position the judge is in:

http://insurancenewsnet.com/oarticle/2016/02/16/murder-victims-insurance-subject-of-st-charles-county-court-battle.html

[walnutqueen]

For anyone still wondering what's up with the civil case, this article gives imo a clear, concise explanation of the difficult position the judge is in:

http://insurancenewsnet.com/oarticle/2016/02/16/murder-victims-insurance-subject-of-st-charles-county-court-battle.html

 

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh fuckballs, just strike this Hupp beeyotch dead already, wouldja?!

[hoosiermom]

Wow. That really sucks.

[mythoughtis]

That is horrible.  This woman may or may not have memory issues.... but she definitely has moral issues.

[glowlights]

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh fuckballs, just strike this Hupp beeyotch dead already, wouldja?!

 

Believe me if giving the stink eye could strike someone dead, Hupp would be six feet under by now. :(

 

Put down any sharp objects before reading this:

 

Police never considered Hupp a suspect.  Police reports often mention Hupp's health.  Officers canceled her polygraph noting, 'Upon further investigation it was revealed Hupp has suffered a head injury' and is 'prone to seizures.'

Hupp also told Askey during that June 2015 interview, 'Now the story is, I went to my doctor and said I need a letter that says I can't take a polygraph which is not true. I didn't even ask him for it.'

A handwritten note suggests she did ask.  It's signed by Pam Hupp and reads, ''Could you please write Detective Kaiser a letter stating that I was not able to do my polygraph due to medical reasons."

Her doctor then wrote 'Pamela Hupp is unable to undergo a polygraph due to her medical condition. This was discussed with Pamela."

<snip>

Schwartz also deposed Hupp's doctor who said, 'I'm not familiar with polygraphs.  So I would say there's not any condition that would prevent her from doing it.'

Schwartz responded during the deposition, 'Okay, but she asked you to write that letter?'

'Yes,' the doctor answered.

 

http://fox2now.com/2016/02/16/why-police-knew-they-couldnt-rely-on-key-witness-in-faria-murder-case/

[walnutqueen]

Believe me if giving the stink eye could strike someone dead, Hupp would be six feet under by now. :(

 

Put down any sharp objects before reading this:

 

Police never considered Hupp a suspect.  Police reports often mention Hupp's health.  Officers canceled her polygraph noting, 'Upon further investigation it was revealed Hupp has suffered a head injury' and is 'prone to seizures.'

Hupp also told Askey during that June 2015 interview, 'Now the story is, I went to my doctor and said I need a letter that says I can't take a polygraph which is not true. I didn't even ask him for it.'

A handwritten note suggests she did ask.  It's signed by Pam Hupp and reads, ''Could you please write Detective Kaiser a letter stating that I was not able to do my polygraph due to medical reasons."

Her doctor then wrote 'Pamela Hupp is unable to undergo a polygraph due to her medical condition. This was discussed with Pamela."

<snip>

Schwartz also deposed Hupp's doctor who said, 'I'm not familiar with polygraphs.  So I would say there's not any condition that would prevent her from doing it.'

Schwartz responded during the deposition, 'Okay, but she asked you to write that letter?'

'Yes,' the doctor answered.

 

http://fox2now.com/2016/02/16/why-police-knew-they-couldnt-rely-on-key-witness-in-faria-murder-case/

 

Those cops are making me stabby.

[NewDigs]

Believe me if giving the stink eye could strike someone dead, Hupp would be six feet under by now. :(

Put down any sharp objects before reading this:

Police never considered Hupp a suspect. Police reports often mention Hupp's health. Officers canceled her polygraph noting, 'Upon further investigation it was revealed Hupp has suffered a head injury' and is 'prone to seizures.'

Hupp also told Askey during that June 2015 interview, 'Now the story is, I went to my doctor and said I need a letter that says I can't take a polygraph which is not true. I didn't even ask him for it.'

A handwritten note suggests she did ask. It's signed by Pam Hupp and reads, ''Could you please write Detective Kaiser a letter stating that I was not able to do my polygraph due to medical reasons."

Her doctor then wrote 'Pamela Hupp is unable to undergo a polygraph due to her medical condition. This was discussed with Pamela."

Schwartz also deposed Hupp's doctor who said, 'I'm not familiar with polygraphs. So I would say there's not any condition that would prevent her from doing it.'

Schwartz responded during the deposition, 'Okay, but she asked you to write that letter?'

'Yes,' the doctor answered.

http://fox2now.com/2016/02/16/why-police-knew-they-couldnt-rely-on-key-witness-in-faria-murder-case/

This is how that bitch refers to the murder? Blah blah blah????

Bolding mine

"Hupp continued to explain, during the June 2015 interview with Askey, that she has bigger problems than her back. She continued, 'I have a plate in my neck and all kinds of crap, but my head injury is the biggest thing. So when I say off the wall stuff, it's not because I'm lying, it's because for some reason that popped in my head... like with Betsy. Where was she (when I left her)? I said she was on the couch blah, blah, blah with her blanket and pillow blah, blah, blah then the next time I said she's waving at me because in my head that's mostly how I remember her."

Wow. Heartless is too kind.

Edited February 20, 2016 by NewDigs

[applecrisp]

Those cops are making me stabby.

Yeah and they couldn't even use good grammar.  All idiots.  I am now wondering about Missouri.  Is this the new Florida?  Ryan Ferguson, Ferguson -the suburb and now the Faria case.

 

i am going there to visit my sister should I be scared?

[NewDigs]

Yeah and they couldn't even use good grammar.  All idiots.  I am now wondering about Missouri.  Is this the new Florida?  Ryan Ferguson, Ferguson -the suburb and now the Faria case.

 

i am going there to visit my sister should I be scared?

No. But you might want to be careful using that state's "Show Me" slogan.

[saber5055]

I fell asleep last night and missed the end of the episode about the island motel owner woman who disappeared. The husband was suspect, then it was revealed she had a much-younger good-looking hottie boyfriend (who also happened to be a convicted arsonist). I saw the part where her purse was found on the beach, and the car thief turned out to be just that. But was Sabina's body ever found or anyone jailed for her murder?

[Stampiron]

I fell asleep last night and missed the end of the episode about the island motel owner woman who disappeared. The husband was suspect, then it was revealed she had a much-younger good-looking hottie boyfriend (who also happened to be a convicted arsonist). I saw the part where her purse was found on the beach, and the car thief turned out to be just that. But was Sabina's body ever found or anyone jailed for her murder?

 

 

The boyfriend ended up taking a deal where he plead No Contest and showed them where he buried her. He got 20 years I think.

 

Episode here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgB1kvzIZcI

[LakeGal]

I watched last night's episode.  Glad it was a Keith Morrison one.  I will even watch the boring ones if he is covering it.

I kept waiting for them to get to the boyfriend.  They mentioned him in the intro and then ignored him for most of the episode.  That was enough to make me suspect he was the killer.

Edited February 20, 2016 by LakeGal

[saber5055]

Thanks Stampiron. Did the boyfriend have a motive? Money, or anything? And was she buried on the beach where her purse was found? (I'm not up to watching again, Datelines can be so loooong and boring before getting to the point, but thanks for the link.) 

[JudyObscure]

No motive, Saber, he just lost his temper when she was talking about breaking up with him after a fight about his smoking. He choked her to death then buried her at a place on the beach where they used to sit and talk a lot. I think it was a short distance off from the purse. After that he drove her car to the bar on the bad side of town and left it with the keys in the ignition as bait for a car thief to put them off track. All very sad and pointless. Why in the world would Sabina have dated a man who she knew was doing time for arson and battery of a woman?

[Morbs]

Because of that shirtless pic they kept showing of him!

[saber5055]

Why in the world would Sabina have dated a man who she knew was doing time for arson and battery of a woman?

 

Because he would never do that to YOU, because he says he LOVES you! That ... and that shirtless photo, as Morbs says! He was, what, some 20 years younger? So much emotional manipulation can happen in a relationship like that, and it sounds like the hottie boyfriend was pretty good at it as Sabina was also supporting him $$-wise. Or at least Dateline said he got evicted after Sabina disappeared and stopped paying his rent.

 

So he burned down the motel ... just because he could? 

Edited February 20, 2016 by saber5055

[Ohmo]

Since when can a doctor write a note to get someone out of a polygraph?

 

It is amazing to me that the justice system has so thoroughly bought this woman's line of bull.

 

Hey applecrisp, I lived in Missouri for a couple of years (not in the St. Louis area though).  I thought it was nice.

 

When I lived there, I was called for jury duty on a federal case.  I received a questionnaire, but as I answered the questions, i realized the case would be heard several hours away from me.  They must have been casting a really wide net.  There was no way that I could get there easily, so I was excused upon providing documentation that showed that.  However, I've sometimes wondered what the case was about.

[stillhere1900]

This one was repeated last night. 

 

  He didn't walk Susie to the door, he drove away without even looking in his rear view to see if she had gotten in the door. If he had just glanced in his rear view he would have seen someone walk up to her as she standing at the building's front door. He mad out with her for 20 min are so, and then just let her out and drove away.

 

He said the guilt has stayed with him all these years. It should.

Edited February 21, 2016 by stillhere1900

[ButterQueen]

I hope that prosecutor loses her job over this.

[Texasmom1970]

My heat ached for those parents after watching this losing their daughter, son and grand daughter. So unbelievably tragic!

[ari333]

DId you guys see this one? The daughter couldn't get the mom on the phone for 4 or 5 hours. They normally talked or texted daily. The daughter and her fiancée drove 5 hours to the parents' house. Then when they got there, she used the garage door opener to open the garage door and saw two cars. She did not go in, but called 911.  I can see both sides of this. If the car or cars had not been there, maybe she would have gone in.  Also, if you're used to an older loved one responding quickly, then they don't, that can freak a person out.

 

One time some years ago,  my elderly parents said that they wanted to sell some furniture bc they were buying new stuff; so they wanted to put an ad in the newspaper and let random strangers wander through their home looking at furniture. I put a stop to that pronto.

Edited February 22, 2016 by ari333

[stillhere1900]

It was very strange to me that after driving 5 hours AND using the garage door opener, that they didn't go inside.

[cooksdelight]

I might not want to go inside, thinking something must be wrong. I'd be on the phone dialing 911 immediately, and wait for the experts to arrive so that I didn't disturb any possible evidence. She said she knew in her gut that something was horribly wrong.

I was sort of surprised the killer pled guilty so easily. It seemed that the show was almost over when he was arrested and BOOM, he's going to prison.

[ari333]

It was very strange to me that after driving 5 hours AND using the garage door opener, that they didn't go inside.

 

Yes, it was strange, but I kind of understand in a way.  The daughter didn't strike me as fishy.

That MArk dude did seem fishy and weird and off. Even the former secretary said that there was something off about the dude, sos much so that she quit her job to get away from him. That only doesn't make him a murderer, but I thought it was interesting. He refused to give DNA or take a polygraph test.. 18 thousand in coins sold at a pawn shop the day after the murders in which 20 thousand-ish of coins were taken. Gees. At least wait a while.  Also, pretty stupid that story he told about McDonald's and going to the house that night.  Driving all the way there, but not simply calling to ask why his friend didn't show up. WOw.

Edited February 22, 2016 by ari333

[LakeGal]

I was curious if the daughter had tried calling her parents again from outside when she saw the cars in the garage.  That would make the most sense.  She knew the cars were home and her parents were still not answering the phone.  Otherwise they could have come home since she last tried calling them.  They didn't mention this but it would make the most sense.  

[Rowan]

I had a relative of a neighbor knock on my door one night. She begged me to go across to her sister's house and look inside to see if she was ok. I had never previously met this lady, so I was a little wary, but she seemed authentically scared. I asked her why doesn't she just go in, and she told me that she couldn't handle finding her if she was dead. The neighbor lady's car was in the drive so I did a walk through, and she wasn't home. She got back in touch with people and showed up the next day.

My point is that I think some people just can't handle the thought of discovering a dead loved one. My neighbor's sister wouldn't even go in the house until I told her no one was in there.

[Ohmo]

One time some years ago,  my elderly parents said that they wanted to sell some furniture bc they were buying new stuff; so they wanted to put an ad in the newspaper and let random strangers wander through their home looking at furniture. I put a stop to that pronto.

 

ari333, this genuinely gives me the willies just by reading it.  I'm glad your parents told you so you were aware and could protect them by saying NO WAY!

 

I'm surprised the daughter didn't have more issues with all of that stuff practically being in plain sight.  That Mark guy was a definite creep, but the couple made themselves targets.  I don't want to sound like I think it was inevitable that something was likely to happen, but wow.  The report said that they frequently had contractors come into their home.  Mark was someone they knew, so this wasn't about a stranger.  However, just by having all of those items out seems to demonstrate that this couple wasn't particularly careful.

Edited February 23, 2016 by Ohmo

[ButterQueen]

This episode wasn't very good....settled quickly.

I COULD NOT have lived in that house. The wallpaper, matching rugs, stuff everywhere.

[jennylauren123]

That house made me itch. The upstairs hall had about four mismatched runners. Crap was everywhere. I couldn't spend more than 5 minutes there.

 

But I'm here to ask if anyone else found it very strange that the daughter and her new husband were not interviewed together. In the beginning, I thought it was because one of them had something to do with the murders.

[cooksdelight]

They weren't yet married when the murders took place. I think her uncle gave her away at her wedding.

[Lizzing]

I was horrified that the daughter staying outside the house and calling 911 made her suspicious to the cops.  As y'all have said above, maybe she didn't feel equipped to find her parents dead or didn't want to disturb evidence.  But my mind went to (probably too much L&O) maybe they were being held hostage or the perp(s) were still in the house.  Given that she knew her dad kept guns all over the house, the situation could have been dire to enter unarmed and untrained to deal with active shooters.  So to me, the daughter's actions seemed not only rational, but the safest course of action.

[ari333]

I was horrified that the daughter staying outside the house and calling 911 made her suspicious to the cops.  As y'all have said above, maybe she didn't feel equipped to find her parents dead or didn't want to disturb evidence.  But my mind went to (probably too much L&O) maybe they were being held hostage or the perp(s) were still in the house.  Given that she knew her dad kept guns all over the house, the situation could have been dire to enter unarmed and untrained to deal with active shooters.  So to me, the daughter's actions seemed not only rational, but the safest course of action.

 

 

YES ! THIS ^^^

 

Also, I don't see how she lives in a house where her beloved parents were brutally murdered. I get it that they loved the house. Also all the stuff.... just too much stuff for me - but I can see why she keeps it.

[Stampiron]

- I also didn't find anything odd about the daughter not wanting to go in the house. She was thinking the worst -  I don't think she was worried both her parents just happened to pass away in their sleep at the same time -  and didn't want to see some grisly scene or, as Lizzing said, walk in on an active crime. That said, I don't think it's unreasonable for the police to note that fact when looking at her. We've all seen other cases on Dateline where the killer avoids direct contact with the crime scene, directing someone else to the home because either they don't want to view the scene they know is there or because they feel that involving someone else distances them from the crime.

 

- I would have liked to have heard more about what Mark Porter (the killer) was like. We just got that vague statement from his former secretary which told me almost nothing. I wished they'd interviewed some other people who knew him and gotten into some specifics. I'd also like to have known what he was gambling on, with whom and how much his debts actually were, though I don't know that authorities ever determined that.

 

- As mentioned above, it seemed stupid of Porter to tell police that he went by the house that night, but I guess he was worried that his car could have been seen and he wanted to get out front with an explanation.  But taking the coins to a pawn shop  - a local pawn shop! - with video cameras is just idiotic. Even if they were his coins it's stupid. It's like the scene in Goodfellas when the guy shows up after the heist with a new Cadillac and fur coat for his wife. He tells DeNiro the money came from his mother-in-law and DeNiro says it doesn't matter where it came from. When the cops are looking at you for a major robbery, you don't show money, period.

 

- The request for a DNA sample is always a tough one for a guilty person playing Mr. Innocent. Agree and you could be sealing your doom; Refuse and you're immediately the prime suspect. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.