All Episodes Discussion

[badgerwoman]

It makes me so angry this guy got away with so much for so long so many props to the detectives in Kristine Johnson's case, and all the women who came forward to tell their stories.  And he probably has other victims out there.

[GiandujaPie]

Unfortunately in LA, it is much too easy to prey on women with that scam as so many are there exactly for that purpose. Even the ones that claimed they were aware it was likely a scam still went along with it (although brought along a witness) on the off chance that it was a real opportunity. I lived in LA during that time period and while I'm no raving beauty and had zero interest in being an actress, I had plenty of people attempt something like that with me and I also learned that in LA, you really can't judge how connected someone is in the industry based on how scuzzy they might look. And Kristi told her parents she wanted to be a makeup artist but clearly deep down she harbored the same fantasy of being discovered as a fresh young beauty in Hollywood. 

The police and media never reported on the details of the specific outfit so how could it be that those women all managed to come up with the same story if they were all lying, as Victor and his attorney contend. Did they ever say why he was so particular about that outfit? If this was a Criminal Minds episode, we would have found out that his mother was a prostitute and used to parade around the house wearing that outfit and flaunting her sexuality in front of him when he was a child. 

I also found it striking how so many of the women had the same look and then he also moved onto blondes. I wouldn't be surprised if more previous victims come forward after this episode. At the time it happened, I'm sure there were more women who fell for his James Bond casting shtick but maybe because they left before he was able to attack them, they didn't think to say anything, as this is a common scam in LA, or if they were assaulted maybe they were too embarrassed at the time to admit that they fell for the scam. 

[12catcrazy]

It kind of amazed me that anybody would fall for this guy's scam; especially in a place like L.A.    You'd think that when movie people are looking for actresses, they place a call to an agency or run an ad - not try and pick up a woman at a mall.   And even if the woman was intrigued, you'd hope that she would be at least savvy enough to ask for the guy's business card and arrange a meeting through his office.  

And it made my blood boil also that some jury of morons let this bastard go after he assaulted the woman in the hotel room.   Granted that this happened 20 years ago and before the era of "Me Too" and there were probably people on that jury who had the attitude that if the woman went up to the hotel room with the guy then she was tacitly implying that she went there for sex.   God only knows how many vicious creeps get away with sexual assault because of this mindset.  

Don't even get me started on that lawyer.  I hope that if he has any daughters, they don't meet up with any psychos like Victor.  

[LuvMyShows]

 

On 6/1/2024 at 5:01 PM, TVbitch said:

I wonder what century it will have to be before sexual predators get properly sentenced. Releasing them back into society again and again shows how little regard is given to these crimes. I wonder if it were men that were so frequently being raped, kidnapped, beaten and murdered things would be different. 

And this is why I get so nervous every time someone commits multiple murders/rapes/assaults but is only tried for one, especially if the murders occurred in different locales. Way more often than should happen, the laws change or something else occurs, and they are released early, and now there's nothing that can be done to keep them behind bars. When they are tried for the other crimes, especially in another state, there may still be that sentencing that can be imposed, so that they aren't actually released early. I cringe every time I hear someone say that the perp will be locked away forever, even with a life sentence, because it just seems like you never know nowadays. 

[patty1h]

2 hours ago, 12catcrazy said:

It kind of amazed me that anybody would fall for this guy's scam; especially in a place like L.A.    You'd think that when movie people are looking for actresses, they place a call to an agency or run an ad - not try and pick up a woman at a mall.   

You'd think no one would fall for this move but I've heard that model scouts do this - approach attractive men/women out of the blue.  I've heard several interviews from models saying that they were approached in malls, on the street, at school, etc. by scouts.  You just have to take appropriate precautions when strangers offer amazing opportunities.

[iMonrey]

1 hour ago, patty1h said:

You'd think no one would fall for this move but I've heard that model scouts do this - approach attractive men/women out of the blue.  I've heard several interviews from models saying that they were approached in malls, on the street, at school, etc. by scouts.  You just have to take appropriate precautions when strangers offer amazing opportunities.

Yup. There are scouts that work for agencies and they troll the local hot spots like beaches and night clubs and they'll go up to people and say "You have a great look, have you ever thought about being on TV?" That's where a lot of reality show contestants come from. Scouts get a commission for recruits that get picked for jobs.

That said, they do hand out business cards and ask the person to come in for an interview and audition tape, so it should be fairly easy to look up said agency and see if they're legit before going to the interview. But you know what they say, there's one born every minute.

[GiandujaPie]

5 hours ago, 12catcrazy said:

It kind of amazed me that anybody would fall for this guy's scam; especially in a place like L.A.    You'd think that when movie people are looking for actresses, they place a call to an agency or run an ad - not try and pick up a woman at a mall.   And even if the woman was intrigued, you'd hope that she would be at least savvy enough to ask for the guy's business card and arrange a meeting through his office.  

And it made my blood boil also that some jury of morons let this bastard go after he assaulted the woman in the hotel room.   Granted that this happened 20 years ago and before the era of "Me Too" and there were probably people on that jury who had the attitude that if the woman went up to the hotel room with the guy then she was tacitly implying that she went there for sex.   God only knows how many vicious creeps get away with sexual assault because of this mindset.  

Don't even get me started on that lawyer.  I hope that if he has any daughters, they don't meet up with any psychos like Victor.  

You'd be amazed at how many people fall for these types of scams. So many people have this fantasy of being "discovered". Even people like the actress turned psychologist who should have known better took a chance just in case it turned out to be real, but she was savvy enough to bring a "bodyguard". 

Also, as others have mentioned, it is known to happen, especially for things like reality shows. Especially in a place like LA, where so many people secretly harbor this fantasy. When I lived there, I was approached multiple times even though I don't consider myself that type and while I'm not interested in being an actress or model, it is flattering to be approached in that way. 

[iMonrey]

"Dark Intentions" was a very irritating episode. It felt almost exploitative, rather than investigative. Victim after victim described the terrible ordeal they experienced but it wasn't until the one hour and thirty one minute mark the show finally gave us a name and a picture of the perp, and it was just some rando that had no real connection to any of them. 

What really pissed me off was Andrea's interview with Sheema (sp?) - a gruesome recounting of the attack from start to finish and not once did she ask "And what did he look like?" I mean, it's question number one! Was it Tang, the first victim's boyfriend? Was he tall? Short? White? Black? Thin? Fat? Young? Old? Anything? Bueller? Bueller?

And the entire segment on Tasha's ex? A red herring.

It's crazy Texas has a law that the jury isn't allowed to hear about all the other murders this guy committed during the trial. But then they're allowed to hear about them during the sentencing phase. If I were on the jury I'd be pissed! Like, "Wait, he raped and murdered four other women and you didn't tell us that?"

Edited June 8 by iMonrey

[Irlandesa]

I hated the choice to focus on the killer's ex's lips.  I appreciate she wanted anonymity and the shots from behind or her hands were fine. But there's just something that I hated about the extreme close-up of the lips.

[TVbitch]

Not a good episode when you are currently staying alone at a creaky cabin in the woods. 😱😬

Andrea says "oh my gosh!!!" way too much. As a professional interviewer, she should curb that, and also because it isn't a sufficient interjection when someone is speaking about their horrific rape. Glad Sheema pushed back when Andrea said how grateful she must have felt once she was able to get help and would survive. Sheema's all like, um, no girl, I did not feel anything like gratitude. 

[Blissfool]

Are there any Big Brother watchers here? Did you automatically recognize Chima! I mean, she still looks the same and her name is unusual enough! Chima was a contestant BB in the early 2000s. She was rather volatile and is known for being expelled from the show for not following the rules. I wonder if the trauma from her attack led to her defensive personality on the show. I didn't know about her history back when I saw her on BB, but now that I do I feel compassion for her.

[pdlinda]

8 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

I hated the choice to focus on the killer's ex's lips.  I appreciate she wanted anonymity and the shots from behind or her hands were fine. But there's just something that I hated about the extreme close-up of the lips.

Yah...I also noted that it appeared grotesque...

[iMonrey]

15 hours ago, Blissfool said:

Are there any Big Brother watchers here? Did you automatically recognize Chima! I mean, she still looks the same and her name is unusual enough! Chima was a contestant BB in the early 2000s. She was rather volatile and is known for being expelled from the show for not following the rules. I wonder if the trauma from her attack led to her defensive personality on the show. I didn't know about her history back when I saw her on BB, but now that I do I feel compassion for her.

OMG. I immediately thought of her as soon as I heard the name and still I didn't make the connection. I think because it's been so long since that season aired, I just didn't really remember what she looked like. 

[CraftyHazel]

I’m watching the episode on now “The Breakup”, and wondering why they chose that photograph of the woman who “discovered” her friend’s body.  It sure looks like a mugshot, so I immediately assumed she’s going to wind up being the killer.

[badgerwoman]

11 hours ago, CraftyHazel said:

I’m watching the episode on now “The Breakup”, and wondering why they chose that photograph of the woman who “discovered” her friend’s body.  It sure looks like a mugshot, so I immediately assumed she’s going to wind up being the killer.

I've seen photos  like that taken for evidence so I didn't think mugshot.  I did wonder why they just accepted her story on face value though.  Shouldn't the first person on the scene deserve a closer look immediately?

[Irlandesa]

There was a moment that made me think that it wasn't the boyfriend but rather the woman who found the victim.  I think it was when she was impersonating the woman she killed.  It's pretty natural that they're going to take a picture of someone covered in blood reporting a crime for evidence purposes since the evidence is on her.  They probably also took her clothes.

The twist I wasn't quite expecting was that they had briefly been lovers before the murder. 

[TVbitch]

Dateline throws us a twist from the usual perp. I hope this doesn't come off as  blaming the victim, cuz I don't, but sometimes I hear about what is going on in some of these people's lives and I am just.... wha?! How do people endure the stress of these crazy situations? 🤷‍♀️ I could not handle even a tiny fraction of that drama.

[AZChristian]

Perpetrators need to always be aware of the fact that there are cameras in pretty much all retail establishments.  They don't just catch people at Walmart buying tarps and shovels . . . they see innocent people shopping for auto parts while the real perpetrator makes up a story that they saw the innocent guy in the house.

You can't make this stuff up.

[Annber03]

1 minute ago, AZChristian said:

Perpetrators need to always be aware of the fact that there are cameras in pretty much all retail establishments.  They don't just catch people at Walmart buying tarps and shovels . . . they see innocent people shopping for auto parts while the real perpetrator makes up a story that they saw the innocent guy in the house.

You can't make this stuff up.

Seriously! In order to commit and get away with a crime nowadays, you have to pretty much be completely off the grid. No phones, no video cameras, none of that. Every aspect of our lives is tracked in some way or another nowadays and there's always a paper trail or a digital trail or something out there. It amazes me how so many criminals seem to forget that or don't think about that. 

Mind, there are those who DO know that and just...don't care, 'cause they're just that brazen. But still. 

2 hours ago, TVbitch said:

Dateline throws us a twist from the usual perp. I hope this doesn't come off as  blaming the victim, cuz I don't, but sometimes I hear about what is going on in some of these people's lives and I am just.... wha?! How do people endure the stress of these crazy situations? 🤷‍♀️ I could not handle even a tiny fraction of that drama.

No, yeah, I think about this, too. Setting aside the crime/murder aspects of these kinds of stories, I hear about some of these people's lives, be they victims or criminals, and I'm just like, "...that sounds exhausting." My favorites are the criminals who actvely get involved in all this drama and go to all these great lengths to put on fake personas and lead double lives and whatnot, and they actively create these problems that they feel they need to solve via criminal means. That's just way too much nonsense to juggle, and I'm not at all surprsied that so many criminals who try that can't seem to keep the ruse going for very long. 

[Medicine Crow]

2 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

Seriously! In order to commit and get away with a crime nowadays, you have to pretty much be completely off the grid. No phones, no video cameras, none of that. Every aspect of our lives is tracked in some way or another nowadays and there's always a paper trail or a digital trail or something out there. It amazes me how so many criminals seem to forget that or don't think about that. 

Mind, there are those who DO know that and just...don't care, 'cause they're just that brazen. But still. 

No, yeah, I think about this, too. Setting aside the crime/murder aspects of these kinds of stories, I hear about some of these people's lives, be they victims or criminals, and I'm just like, "...that sounds exhausting." My favorites are the criminals who actvely get involved in all this drama and go to all these great lengths to put on fake personas and lead double lives and whatnot, and they actively create these problems that they feel they need to solve via criminal means. That's just way too much nonsense to juggle, and I'm not at all surprsied that so many criminals who try that can't seem to keep the ruse going for very long. 

Which brings to mind the adage:  Liars have to have good memories!

[Annber03]

1 minute ago, Medicine Crow said:

Which brings to mind the adage:  Liars have to have good memories!

They really do. And then there's usually that one little detail that IS true that they try to keep across all their stories, for consistency purposes...but sometimes it's that very same little detail that winds up being what brings them down. 

[UsernameFatigue]

8 hours ago, badgerwoman said:

I've seen photos  like that taken for evidence so I didn't think mugshot.  I did wonder why they just accepted her story on face value though.  Shouldn't the first person on the scene deserve a closer look immediately?

That was mind boggling to me, and that they kept the boyfriend in custody for a full month before they released him. Even though he had a pretty detailed alibi. Did it take that long to confirm it?

Did they ask him about his girlfriend's "best friend"? I would imagine the boyfriend knew nothing about her, did the police assume he was lying when he would have told them that she was not his girlfriend's best friend? And in fact had likely never heard of her before, as was the case with the dead woman's mother.

 

[JudyObscure]

Poor Lewis looked so tragically sad in his mug shot. He never should have had to worry in jail for four weeks.  I was suspicious of LaRene right from the start.  No one sits in a park by herself for more than a half-hour or so.

That note! "I'm leaving you for Ike he makes more money bye."  LOL  The detectives were slow witted on this one.

[Irlandesa]

58 minutes ago, UsernameFatigue said:

That was mind boggling to me, and that they kept the boyfriend in custody for a full month before they released him. Even though he had a pretty detailed alibi. Did it take that long to confirm it?

They thought that maybe he had an accomplice.   It took them a month to get access to his phone to discover he didn't talk about killing her with anyone. 

[UsernameFatigue]

6 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

They thought that maybe he had an accomplice.   It took them a month to get access to his phone to discover he didn't talk about killing her with anyone. 

That still makes no sense to me. The "best friend" identified him as the person who was in the house and then following her. Once they knew his alibi checked out and that he could not have been the person she saw, I don't understand how they could detain him. Even if they still thought he could have had an accomplice. They had zilch other than the claims of someone who had already been caught in at least two lies. 

And I agree with others, the "friend's" story was very sketchy from the beginning. It should have been easy to disprove her long time BF claim right away, a huge red flag all on its own.

Slow witted detectives indeed.  

Edited June 16 by UsernameFatigue

[Irlandesa]

1 minute ago, UsernameFatigue said:

That still makes no sense to me. The "best friend" identified him as the person who was in the house and then following her. Once they knew his alibi checked out and that he could not have been the person she saw, I don't understand how they could detain him.

I'm guessing they wanted to make sure he she didn't misidentify someone he was in cahoots with or they wanted to see if he was in cahoots with the friend who threw him under the bus.

I'm not justifying them keeping him in jail. I think it's egregious once their case fell apart with a solid alibi.  Cameras are always better than eyewitness testimony. 

But I think their mentality is that it's better to keep him locked up until they 100% clear him than release him.  They are not 'innocent until guilty' people, clearly.

[Mondrianyone]

15 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

It took them a month to get access to his phone to discover he didn't talk about killing her with anyone. 

This seemed crazy to me. I watch The First 48 like it's my job, and those detectives get frustrated when it takes more than a day or two to get phone records. A month makes no sense at all. What would the holdup be?

[Irlandesa]

2 hours ago, Mondrianyone said:

This seemed crazy to me. I watch The First 48 like it's my job, and those detectives get frustrated when it takes more than a day or two to get phone records. A month makes no sense at all. What would the holdup be?

I'm guessing they wanted a forensic analysis of his phone.  Not just calls but texts.  Deleted texts.  Deleted pics...etc. I think that takes longer.

[Mondrianyone]

35 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

I think that takes longer.

Not from what I've observed. The carrier can usually supply all that within a matter of days, and there's often an in-house officer to do whatever else is needed.

[Angeltoes]

On 6/15/2024 at 12:20 PM, Irlandesa said:

The twist I wasn't quite expecting was that they had briefly been lovers before the murder. 

That could have been another lie from the friend.  

[Irlandesa]

18 minutes ago, Angeltoes said:

That could have been another lie from the friend.  

I don't think it was a lie.  She didn't volunteer that information.  It sounds like the cops got that from looking at text messages and computer activity from the perpetrator and the victim. The victim broke it off because she said she was getting serious about her boyfriend.  I'm confused as to which boyfriend she was talking about:  the one she lived with or the one she was having an affair with.  

[I Want My MBTV]

It just bothers me so much that if Lewis didn't happen to be in LA that particular day and time buying auto parts he'd likely still be in jail for a crime he didn't commit and the 'friend' would probably be off ruining someone else's life.   The cops just zeroed in on him from jump and didn't seem to even think he might not be the killer or that the 'friend' might be lying.  I honestly feel like if they didn't find that video of Lewis they never even would have thought twice about the friend and questioned anything she said or tested her for anything.  Even after the the victims mom said "who's that?"!!  It's just really scary.  I'm glad Lewis has what seems to have a nice life now but I can't imagine being in that situation and what it must do to you mentally. 

[LuvMyShows]

On 6/15/2024 at 7:41 PM, JudyObscure said:

That note! "I'm leaving you for Ike he makes more money bye."  LOL  

Also the part where she says she's just going to leave the house and they can do whatever with it. Uh hus...sure, Jan.

[Friend to all]

I went to school with Dr. Sills for 5 years. We graduated from high school together in 1983. Not one time did I ever see him mad or lose his cool. He was always very well spoken and everyone liked him. I sure hate to see how this all went down for everyone involved.

[iMonrey]

I know "The Hands of a Killer" was not a new episode because I remembered that guy's weird orange streak on his mustache under his left nostril. 

[LuvMyShows]

I watched the recent Dateline Unforgettable episode "The Secret Life of the Homecoming Queen," and I wish they had mentioned something that seemed so obvious in terms of Michelle's bullsh*t excuse about how she didn't think Scott was going to kill Thad but was just going to tell him about their affair. Given that one of Michelle's main complaints about Thad was how much time he spent at church, there would have been no need whatsoever for Michelle to give Scott a schedule of Thad's whereabouts if all Scott wanted to do was talk. He could have gone any random night of the week and found Scott at church...or for that matter, could have come over to their house to talk to him. The only reason Scott would need a schedule, is to figure where Thad would be at times when few people would be around.

I was also pissed that they completely glossed over Michelle's statement that she didn't want to tell Thad herself because she thought he was going to hit her. At no time in the episode was anything said by anyone, including Michelle, that Thad had a violent streak in him. She should have been challenged when she said that. I did like how they pointed out how chipper and lovey-dovey she was in the secret jail calls, which she wouldn't have been if Scott had gone off script and murdered her husband when she didn't want that. Likewise I wish there had been more pushback when she gave her lame explanation of what she meant by her warning for Scott to be careful about the surroundings when he went to Thad's work that final day. I did like how Dennis called her out about her believing in the giant "coincidence" of Scott going to talk to Thad early in the morning at work and then coincidentally some stranger breaks in to Thad's workplace very shortly thereafter and stabs him to death.

[LuvMyShows]

Ordinarily I really like Josh Mankiewicz. But on the latest Dateline, "The Day Akia Disappeared", Josh said a variant of the same thing to two different people, that I found unacceptable. To the man who always wanted more with Akia but had become a platonic best friend, Josh said, "You know, if she'd picked you instead of Michael, she'd still be alive." And then to Akia's parents, after one of them advised children and parents to never be afraid to tell the truth, Josh said, "Because if you knew the truth, you'd still have your daughter."

I find saying those things to be unbelievably (even though undoubtedly unintentionally) cruel, because the "what if" game can eat you alive with regret, and he's fostering it...and to be blunt, Josh has no way to know what else might have happened to Akia in her life, even if those two conditions had been met. As a journalist, Josh has to be very careful about the possible impact of his words when speaking to the friends/family of victims, and in this case, I don't feel that he was.

[pdlinda]

4 hours ago, LuvMyShows said:

As a journalist, Josh has to be very careful about the possible impact of his words when speaking to the friends/family of victims, and in this case, I don't feel that he was.

I think that episode was "in the can" for a LONG TIME because Josh was still overweight. 

I won't characterize the episode in any other way except to say that there was a spoken promo that said the new season will begin on Sept 24th.

[chick binewski]

On 7/30/2024 at 12:01 PM, LuvMyShows said:

I watched the recent Dateline Unforgettable episode "The Secret Life of the Homecoming Queen," and I wish they had mentioned something that seemed so obvious in terms of Michelle's bullsh*t excuse about how she didn't think Scott was going to kill Thad but was just going to tell him about their affair. Given that one of Michelle's main complaints about Thad was how much time he spent at church, there would have been no need whatsoever for Michelle to give Scott a schedule of Thad's whereabouts if all Scott wanted to do was talk. He could have gone any random night of the week and found Scott at church...or for that matter, could have come over to their house to talk to him. The only reason Scott would need a schedule, is to figure where Thad would be at times when few people would be around.

I was also pissed that they completely glossed over Michelle's statement that she didn't want to tell Thad herself because she thought he was going to hit her. At no time in the episode was anything said by anyone, including Michelle, that Thad had a violent streak in him. She should have been challenged when she said that. I did like how they pointed out how chipper and lovey-dovey she was in the secret jail calls, which she wouldn't have been if Scott had gone off script and murdered her husband when she didn't want that. Likewise I wish there had been more pushback when she gave her lame explanation of what she meant by her warning for Scott to be careful about the surroundings when he went to Thad's work that final day. I did like how Dennis called her out about her believing in the giant "coincidence" of Scott going to talk to Thad early in the morning at work and then coincidentally some stranger breaks in to Thad's workplace very shortly thereafter and stabs him to death.

This was a frustrating episode - I kept hoping they would interview anyone In Michelle's life who would call out her b.s. that she clearly utilized throughout her life. Bible belt or no, you know the folks of Rome felt a certain way about a church-going woman who accused her married boyfriend's wife of being jealous of her appearance. Her dead-eyed chorus of "no sirs" to Dennis drove me bananas.

I was also hoping Scotty would wake up (literally and figuratively - I'm not sure Dateline has every featured a less energetic pair of cheaters); this was one of the very few times I actually thought Andrea might get a different result if she was the interviewer.

[GiandujaPie]

The Butterfly on Friday night. 

That boyfriend, John Carter, was quite a trip. Initially, I thought his reactions and affect to Katelyn's disappearance were appropriate and during his interrogation with the police multiple times over the years also didn't appear to give off red flags. However, towards the end when they finally showed the dad saying how John called him and was all frantic about Katelyn disappearing despite never once asking if Katelyn was with him, that was clearly suspicious. Even Scott Peterson knew better than to call Laci's family and immediately act like he knew she was gone. 

It did seem odd that those kids didn't come forward about seeing John and his friend that night until years later, although I guess they were kids at the time and maybe thought they would get into trouble. But how did they remember such details? How did most people remember so many details so many years later, especially when in 2011 taking pictures on your phone and posting constantly to social media wasn't nearly as ubiquitous as it is now. 

I'm glad the family got some closure even though the a$$hole only got 3 years and never had to allocute.

[Annber03]

I thought the 911 call gave him away pretty early on - the way he launched into that whole thing about the festival and how there were weird people there and all that, it just seemed a little too much information to be giving out during a 911 call. All the operator needs is the basic information about the msising person, dude, save the storytelling for the interview with the investigators. It just felt like he was already concocting his story right off the bat. 

And then the bit about how they found evidence that he'd looked up summaries of those "White Collar"* episodes he'd watched...that and his story on the 911 call were a prime example of how too much information can make you look even more guilty, not less. Especially given he'd claimed to be watching those episodes between two and four am. Like, nobody is going to explect you to remember the details of a show you were watching in the middle of the night while you were dead tired after an evening out and about to head to bed in a couple hours. But nope, he just had to add that extra level of detail that really didn't help cement his alibi all that well. 

*I've not seen "White Collar", but I know it's a crime series, so the fact that he was slaiming to watch a show like that and yet wasn't able to cover his tracks is..kind of hilarious. 

I also laughed at the detail of him being arrested at the glass blowing class, right in front of a bunch of older women. What a scene for them to witness. And I wonder how the people at the restaurant reacted upon finding out one of the fry cooks was beng arrested for their role in the murder. That'd make me a little uneasy about going back there for a meal. 

I felt for Katelyn's dad and her family and friends. The whole thing about them stumbling upon and having to clear more of her bones...good lord, I can't even imagine. How awful. I agree the sentence was way too lenient. 

2 hours ago, GiandujaPie said:

It did seem odd that those kids didn't come forward about seeing John and his friend that night until years later, although I guess they were kids at the time and maybe thought they would get into trouble. But how did they remember such details? How did most people remember so many details so many years later, especially when in 2011 taking pictures on your phone and posting constantly to social media wasn't nearly as ubiquitous as it is now. 

Some people just have really good memory recall, I suppose? I was struck by the one guy being interviewed in his home, looking all dressed in a tie and a nice shirt and whatnot. It was amusing to think of him being a bit of a mischievious kid at one time :p. 

[Pi237]

12 hours ago, Annber03 said:

I thought the 911 call gave him away pretty early on - the way he launched into that whole thing about the festival and how there were weird people there and all that, it just seemed a little too much information to be giving out during a 911 call. All the operator needs is the basic information about the msising person, dude, save the storytelling for the interview with the investigators. It just felt like he was already concocting his story right off the bat.  

Agree with all you said 100%. As soon as he mentioned the shady people at the festival-He did it. That would be considered laughably bad writing if it had been a movie. 
 

His sentence was a slap in the face. People get more for selling pot! 3 years for that poor woman’s life.  I’d go crazy with rage. 

[SwanLeda]

Hello, where can I find the 20/20 thread, anybody knows? I can't see it anymore. Thanks!

[iMonrey]

I knew the boyfriend was the culprit within the first five minutes. You watch enough Dateline, you recognize the formula. Whoever Andrea isn't interviewing, that's the guy. She's interviewing the father, the friends, the sister . . . it has to be the boyfriend. It's always the boyfriend.

What drives me crazy is they always start out with everyone saying what a great couple they were and how in love they were and what a great guy he is. Then around the 1 hour and 15 minute mark, these same people start telling us there were problems and she wasn't happy and was calling off the wedding and . . . an hour ago you were telling us how great they were! WTF.

And yeah - 3 years? That ain't justice for Katelyn. That's the very definition of a miscarriage of justice. I get that maybe it was an accident but he covered it up and lied about it for 10 years leaving everyone in agony not knowing what happened to her. That's got to count for something. Stupid Ohio law.

Edited October 1 by iMonrey

[JudyObscure]

4 hours ago, Pi237 said:

 

His sentence was a slap in the face. People get more for selling pot! 3 years for that poor woman’s life.  I’d go crazy with rage. 

Me too, and it's chilling to think that he just had a baby with some poor young woman and he'll be out in three years, probably wanting to reunite or at least  be in the baby's life.  

[patty1h]

Quote

Hello, where can I find the 20/20 thread, anybody knows? I can't see it anymore. Thanks!

20/20 was moved here @SwanLeda... looks like they're condensing multiple programs under this thread:

https://forums.primetimer.com/forum/8813-abcfxhulunational-geographic/

Edited October 1 by patty1h

[SwanLeda]

Thank you, patty1h!

 

[LakeGal]

 

Wrong Turns
Season 33, Episode 2 • New

A new father is found dead on the side of a road; then the shocking stabbing of a young woman in broad daylight leads police on a high speed chase.

 

 

[iMonrey]

Wrong Turns - strange name for the episode. Who turned wrong?

I don't get how the perps thought grabbing Justin and stabbing and shooting him was going to lure Tonya out of the house. She didn't indicate she heard anything going on outside she wanted to investigate. Something is missing here. Obviously Jared wanted Justin dead too, but how did Bailey and Danny think they were going to get to Tonya? Why didn't they just go back to the house, knock on the door and kill her if that was the plan?

Jared's defense attorney tried to make out that Ricky pointed the finger at Jared to shift blame away from himself but that doesn't make any sense. He had no reason to point the finger at Jared if Danny and Bailey did this on their own. It doesn't make any difference to him or his involvement.

It's sad that Justin's grandparents don't seem to want anything to do with their own grandson just because they blame Tonya for their son's murder. It's not like she could have done anything to prevent it.

[Annber03]

"These people were as dumb as they were bloodthirsty." I love Josh XD. 

But wow, what a depressing story in so many ways. Tanya's relationship with Justin's parents souring as it did, for the reasons it did - goddamn. And Ricky still traumatized by everything he saw, to the point where he didn't even want to be interviewed for this. 

And then of course Justin and Bailey's parents, and their grief and pain. I appreciate Bailey's parents not shying away from acknowleding her role in everything, and I can sympathize with their conflicted feelings about what she did. 

But I did appreciate how the prosecutors acknowledged that Bailey was both a perpetrator and victim, 'cause, well, she was. And her death was horrific - the idea that someoen can stab somebody that many times in that short a time period is disturbing. When the story started I actually thought we'd find out Bailey wasn't even a real person, that it was a fake name someone was using to try and get in contact with Tanya. So the reveal about her was all the more shocking as a result. 

(I was also struck by Bailey's dad talking about how he used to view drug addicts before this. Like, I can see where your daughter's experiences can add anotehr level of firsthand understanding, but it is kind of distressing that someone in law enforcement only changed their view of drug addicts in general after everything that happened with their daughter. That kind of idsmissive view of drug addicts is part of why it can be so easy for some of them to get into violent crime, 'cause nobody thinks they're worthy of being saved before they get to that point.)

But yeah, Josh wasn't kidding about how dumb this whole plot was in general. Danny just walking right into a public place still covered in blood - I get it was closing time at the bar when he arrived, but still, he didn't think to maybe toss his bloody clothes somewhere else and change before arriving at the bar? And they go through all that effort to try and lure Tanya out, and they (thankfully) don't even wind up succeeding in that quest, and wind up killing someone who woudl give them absolutely no financial gain instead. I could perhaps see them thinking getting Justin out of the way would make it easier to try and get Tanya, since she'd be more vulnerable without him around, but still, it's weird how they just...let that part of the plot go, or forgot about it entirely. 

Which further tells me that Jared was clearly the mastermind here, 'cause if Bailey really had been the manipulator, like Jared's attorney claimed, she would not have stopped at her efforts to go after Tanya. She was already halfway there with the texts, after all. 

Also, if she had been the manipulator and Jared really did not know anything of her plans (LOL), and Bailey and Danny told him they were planning to kill his ex-wife and the baby*, one woudl think his first reaction would naturally be something along the lines of, "What the fuck, why, are you insane?" So if we go with his attorney's claim that he wasn't involved, either he didn't know and was remarkalbly chill upon learning that there was a plot to kill his ex-wife, or, even if he wasn't involved directly, the fact they came to him after the fact, told him what they'd tried to do, and demanded financial payout woudl still mean he had some knowledge of the plot , and did not bother to report it to anyone. Which is...not a great look, either. 

Obviously, though, of course, I do not buy his attorney's defense. He was clearly a psychotic creep who could not deal with thte fact that he wasn't in control of anything and he was willing to take out so many people to get his way. He saw nothing wrong with the idea of a baby being killed simply for the fact that it wasn't his baby. And he brutally murdered his girlfriend in broad daylight in front of witnesses (but yeah, it was totally in self-defense. Uh-huh). 

Also, innocent people generally don't go on high speed chases. 

Anywho, yeah, he's scum and I'm glad the verdict went as it did. 

(Also, if anyone honestly believed he was going to share any of that insurance payout with Bailey and Danny, they clearly have not seen enough true crime shows, 'cause LOL, no.)