All Episodes Discussion

[Vivigirl10]

Along Came Sarah was quite the tale!  I'm not making light of the seriousness of her crimes and the sadness of the whole thing, but it was a much more interesting episode than the typical "we knew the husband did it five minutes into the show but let's drag this thing out for 2 hours". 

People who possess that type of manipulative charisma are fascinating (horrifying?).  You probably can't truly understand it until you see it with your own eyes, as many of the people who knew her testified to.  There obviously was something there due to her repeated ability to extract herself from any glare of suspicion.  

I kind of loved the foster Mom when Sarah tried to accuse her husband of molesting her and she was basically like, go to your room, you've tried this before and I'm not even entertaining this.  

[SunnyBeBe]

Is anyone watching the episode tonight called Killing Time?  It’s about the murder of Ricky Cowles.  It’s still airing so I won’t say much more.  I just think it’s odd that they seem to gloss over what this 21 year old is doing living with a 16 year old girl and 2 of her teen friends!  I’m not saying that he deserved to be murdered, but that’s messed up.  His family warned him and even said he could be charged with rape, but he was not deterred.  

Edited May 6, 2023 by SunnyBeBe

[Annber03]

My main takeaway from this episode thus far:

Amy's mother, in response to the question of whether or not Amy would have an abortion after Ricky's death: "Our family doesn't believe in abortion!"

Amy: Helps plot the murder of her fiancé. 

Mmkay. 

I think this story has been covered on here before, though - a lot of it sounds very familiar to me. Or maybe it was covered on another show, I don't know. 

[SunnyBeBe]

28 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

My main takeaway from this episode thus far:

Amy's mother, in response to the question of whether or not Amy would have an abortion after Ricky's death: "Our family doesn't believe in abortion!"

Amy: Helps plot the murder of her fiancé. 

Mmkay. 

I think this story has been covered on here before, though - a lot of it sounds very familiar to me. Or maybe it was covered on another show, I don't know. 

I thought it seemed familiar too.  I don’t recall the age difference being so off though.  It’s just so creepy with a grown man obsessed with a child.  Ugh…. 

[iMonrey]

Quote

 I just think it’s odd that they seem to gloss over what this 21 year old is doing living with a 16 year old girl and 2 of her teen friends!  I’m not saying that he deserved to be murdered, but that’s messed up.  

Yeah. I mean, it's a fine line to victim blaming, but Ricky made some bad choices here. Amy's parents were 17 and 24 when they first met so maybe Amy talked Ricky into thinking the age difference was no big deal?

What kills me is that these high school girls all moved out of their homes and into an apartment with a 20-year old man and none of their parents did anything to stop them. They were still minors, the parents could have called the cops on them. Or on Ricky.

That aside, I'm furious that the murderer was released on parole. Don't give me this crap about how your brain isn't fully developed yet. I knew not to murder people when I was 19.

I hope to hell Amy doesn't get out too.

I wasn't clear on whether Ricky's parents got full custody of their granddaughter.

[SunnyBeBe]

19 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Yeah. I mean, it's a fine line to victim blaming, but Ricky made some bad choices here. Amy's parents were 17 and 24 when they first met so maybe Amy talked Ricky into thinking the age difference was no big deal?

What kills me is that these high school girls all moved out of their homes and into an apartment with a 20-year old man and none of their parents did anything to stop them. They were still minors, the parents could have called the cops on them. Or on Ricky.

That aside, I'm furious that the murderer was released on parole. Don't give me this crap about how your brain isn't fully developed yet. I knew not to murder people when I was 19.

I hope to hell Amy doesn't get out too.

I wasn't clear on whether Ricky's parents got full custody of their granddaughter.

I thought they said Ricky turned 21 while dating Amy.  Not to victim blame, but that kind of behavior just raises my radar.  
 

Spoiler

I checked his obit and he was 21 at time of death.  Turned 21 in March and murdered in August of 1997.  

 

It wasn’t clear what happened to the grandchild.  Amy, though she was treated improperly by a grown man, sounds like a scary person.  Immaturity may have been a factor, but she does seem unfeeling and dangerous. Likely, a personality disorder.  Ricky seemed clueless too.  Ricky’s parents seemed normal….just a messed up situation.  

Edited May 6, 2023 by SunnyBeBe

[BusyOctober]

Ricky’s murder was covered before, and I don’t think there was very much new material aired in this rehashing of Amy’s plot to kill Ricky.

Yes, Ricky should have cut ties with Amy long before getting to the moving in stage.  On the law books, and in Ricky’s parents’ minds, and probably most of the audience watching, a 20-21 year old has no business being in an intimate relationship with a 15-16 year old.  But it happens, right or wrong.

I assume Ricky was covering the majority of these teen thugs’ expenses, and I think Amy’s parents were happy their girl got her hooks into Ricky’s family.  They appeared to be well off and had a good business.  They had a boat and went on trips.Was anyone checking that Amy and her roommates/girlfriends (with equally idiotic parents) were attending school?  Were they working?  Or was Ricky solely supporting their party lifestyle?

 I find it more heinous that Amy’s parents were of the attitude, “oh Amy has a mind of her own!  What can we do? She luuuuvs him!”  What could you do?? Um, say no to dating him, and most definitely NO to MOVING IN WITH HIM. Get assistance from local resources? Call the school? Your pastor? A counselor who treats families and adolescents? Amy’s parents were absolutely contributors to creating their monster daughter.  So clueless and completely devoid of remorse on behalf of Amy’s actions. Stupid people shouldn’t have children.  Amy’s mom was so smug about how “educated “ her kids were about abstinence and birth control.  How’d that work out for you, lady?  Now you have a granddaughter whose dad was murdered because of her deluded, immature jailbird mom.  I sure hope you didn’t raise and  “educate” that young lady using the methods as your own evil daughter.

[SunnyBeBe]

I suspect Amy’s parents were relieved to not have to deal with her.  Once out of the house, she was Ricky’s responsibility in their minds.  

[iMonrey]

13 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I suspect Amy’s parents were relieved to not have to deal with her.  Once out of the house, she was Ricky’s responsibility in their minds.  

I'm shocked they agreed to be interviewed. Shows how clueless they are.

Quote

a 20-21 year old has no business being in an intimate relationship with a 15-16 year old.

I think it speaks to how emotionally immature Ricky himself must have been, that he related more to high school kids than girls his own age.

[Vivigirl10]

On 5/6/2023 at 7:58 PM, BusyOctober said:

Amy’s mom was so smug about how “educated “ her kids were about abstinence and birth control.

Those parents were abhorrent.  They may be the reason their daughter turned out to be the devil.  I also loved how Amy's Mom insisted that her children were taught to remain abstinent until they were married!!  Well lady, if you encourage them to get married at 16/17 like yourself, then that shouldn't be too hard!  Geesh.  

 

On 5/6/2023 at 7:58 PM, BusyOctober said:

I think Amy’s parents were happy their girl got her hooks into Ricky’s family.  They appeared to be well off and had a good business.  

Totally agree.  They supported it all.

On the opposite side, I loved Ricky's parents.  They seemed like such good people who tried so hard to make him see the light. I too wonder where the granddaughter ended up.  They obviously loved her so much and she would have been the best off with them.

On 5/7/2023 at 10:38 AM, iMonrey said:

I think it speaks to how emotionally immature Ricky himself must have been, that he related more to high school kids than girls his own age.

I think you're right. He was hanging around a party of High Schoolers and even took Amy to prom.  Seems strange for a grown man to want to do either of those things. 

The actual killer seemed like someone with no self-worth and who was soooo easily manipulated into something to make him feel important in the eyes of others.  I'm not sure sitting in jail would erase those feelings.  I'm always skeptical of those that trot out the big "I found Jesus so now I'm a perfect human" excuse. 

[iMonrey]

Quote

The actual killer seemed like someone with no self-worth and who was soooo easily manipulated into something to make him feel important in the eyes of others.  I'm not sure sitting in jail would erase those feelings.  I'm always skeptical of those that trot out the big "I found Jesus so now I'm a perfect human" excuse. 

Yes, exactly. The cynic in me suspects that this guy lucked out by having someone on the parole board who was super religious and thus really impressed that this guy found Jesus, which may have been the main impetus in his parole being granted.

[UsernameFatigue]

On 5/6/2023 at 9:15 AM, SunnyBeBe said:

I thought they said Ricky turned 21 while dating Amy.  Not to victim blame, but that kind of behavior just raises my radar.  
 

  Reveal spoiler

I checked his obit and he was 21 at time of death.  Turned 21 in March and murdered in August of 1997.  

 

It wasn’t clear what happened to the grandchild.  Amy, though she was treated improperly by a grown man, sounds like a scary person.  Immaturity may have been a factor, but she does seem unfeeling and dangerous. Likely, a personality disorder.  Ricky seemed clueless too.  Ricky’s parents seemed normal….just a messed up situation.  

It was discussed in the episode that Ricky turned 21 in March, a couple of months after he and Amy started dating. His mother talked about the celebration Ricky had with family and friends in Las Vegas, and that 16 year old Amy managed to go there uninvited as well. Ricky's mother said that they didn't see her in Vegas, but knew she was there. 

I don't see Ricky at all as a grown man treating Amy improperly. He was obviously a very immature 20-21 year old who was treated improperly by Amy and her friends. They used him for whatever they could get from him. Amy was manipulative from the start. I wonder if Amy got pregnant on purpose, and then decided to do away with Ricky for life insurance, when she realized that he was not going to stay with her because she was pregnant. 

  I think it is quite possible that Amy, if not convicted, could have gone on to be like Sara, the woman in last weekend's episode who got away with murder seemingly a few times before she was finally brought to justice. 

I wonder why the grandchild was never discussed? She would have been 10 I believe when Amy was convicted, but would be 25 now. I assume maybe she herself did not want the particulars of who raised her to be mentioned? In any case I hope she has a relationship with her father's family. 

As an aside, I was surprised that the age of consent in California is 18. It differs from state to state, but in many it appears to be 16. Where I live, in Canada, the age of consent is 16. 

Edited May 8, 2023 by UsernameFatigue

[Kiss my mutt]

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

Yes, exactly. The cynic in me suspects that this guy lucked out by having someone on the parole board who was super religious and thus really impressed that this guy found Jesus, which may have been the main impetus in his parole being granted.

Yeah, I also think this strategy is listed in the “How to Become a Parolee” handbook.

This case was disturbing. These kids were like the children of Manson running wild.  I keep trying to wrap my head around how gangster these kids were and how completely backwards those parents were letting it happen. I feel for Ricky’s parents and I hope they continue to have custodial rights over their grandchild.
 

 

[UsernameFatigue]

18 minutes ago, Kiss my mutt said:

 

This case was disturbing. These kids were like the children of Manson running wild.  I keep trying to wrap my head around how gangster these kids were and how completely backwards those parents were letting it happen. I feel for Ricky’s parents and I hope they continue to have custodial rights over their grandchild.
 

 

Their granddaughter is now 25 years old, having been born in January of 1998. Unless you meant continued to have rights, rather than continue. I hope they continued to have rights as well while their granddaughter was a minor. 

Edited May 8, 2023 by UsernameFatigue

[scriggle]

I've seen this case on other shows (possibly even a dateline). IIRC the maternal grandparents had primary custody and the paternal grandparents had visitation/were involved in her life. The grandparents agreed among themselves to be nice to each other and not re-litigate the murder for the sake of the child..

[LuvMyShows]

 

On 4/30/2023 at 12:18 PM, iMonrey said:

What cracked me up about this episode is that as they worked their way down the list of her litany of crimes, she responding in text to every one of them "I didn't do it!" 

The thing I couldn't get past, was regarding that boyfriend near the end, who she asked to kill her ex's new wife.  He didn't want to do it at all, and she even said she wouldn't take him back unless he killed her, but he just couldn't do it...and then he was saddened when she didn't take him back!  How on earth can you be disappointed to not be able to be with a woman who wanted you to do something like that???

[Ellee]

Sorry … just me again … OT … haven’t read it all regarding Vallow’s closing arguments but ….

Didn’t Tylee’s dad ‘suddenly die’ with questions again regarding insurance proceeds being brought up?

Thought she also had a sister die really young …

 

[LuvMyShows]

On 5/8/2023 at 2:55 PM, UsernameFatigue said:

His mother talked about the celebration Ricky had with family and friends in Las Vegas, and that 16 year old Amy managed to go there uninvited as well. 

On 5/8/2023 at 12:03 PM, Kiki620 said:

On the opposite side, I loved Ricky's parents.  They seemed like such good people who tried so hard to make him see the light. 

While I felt so very bad for Ricky's parents, and they really were in such a terrible position with being able to see the writing on the wall about the bad influence of Amy, I didn't like how they minimized that Ricky actually was allowing these things to happen and they didn't just happen TO him magically.

I also found it super weird how Ricky's mom talked about losing track of Amy and then her friend told her about Amy being about to give birth in the hospital.  I doubt it was very hard at all to keep track of Amy, especially given that everyone seemed to be traveling in the same circles they always had. 

[TVbitch]

For those who don't want to revisit the entire Vallow saga again, I can report that "The Trial of Lori Vallow" episode only address the trial in the last 30 minutes, and there is a great shot of Lori after the verdict. 

[iMonrey]

Yeah, look, I'm glad Lori Vallow was convicted but I don't need the entire case to be re-hashed again for the umpteenth time. There is no new information to be gleaned at this point. She's a sicko who murdered her children, end of story.

What always interested me in this case, psychologically, is the uproar over it as though these were "worse" murders than other murders. Like there's some sort of scale. It was sensationalized in a way that other murder cases haven't been, and I've never been quite sure what to make of that.

[Annber03]

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

What always interested me in this case, psychologically, is the uproar over it as though these were "worse" murders than other murders. Like there's some sort of scale. It was sensationalized in a way that other murder cases haven't been, and I've never been quite sure what to make of that.

I think this one stuck out to a lot of people because of the wackadoo cult aspect, and Lori thinking her kids were possessed or were demons or whatever the hell it was she claimed they were. And her children weren't the only murders in this crazy story, either, she and her husband had this disturbingly long trail of bodies behind them in general.

Mind, she's far from the first person to get mixed up with and kill people because of a cult influence, and lord knows we've seen cults that led to even more deaths than this (Jonestown, anyone?), but still, I think the moment you bring a cult into a story like this, that just adds to the creepiness and horror.

Plus, anytime a mother kills her children in general, that's always going to be newsworthy in and of itself. 

[BusyOctober]

Oh, Dateline.  You are really trying my patience.  Enough with the 2 hour re-hashing of older stories and calling these episodes “new”. Adding 8 min of previously unaired tidbits is not worthy of titling the other 112min as “new”. ( Especially if it means I have to slog thru those 120 min with Andrea Canning repeating her own questions, and the interviewee’s answers, incessantly)

“The Killings on King Road” was just another example of this waste of time.  At least It wasn’t Andrea droning on and rehashing the tragic Idaho murders.  Maybe use the time better and revisit older stories and provide updates. And if there isn’t enough new material to share, do a one hour show.

 

 

[CrystalBlue]

After having just bingewatched a few of the latest episodes on the NBC Roku app (not to be confused with the Peacock app), I'm thinking the two-hour format is just an excuse to run 10 commercial breaks with multiple ads in each break.  If it weren't for Keith Morrison I wouldn't bother.

Edited May 20, 2023 by CrystalBlue

[DonnaMae]

12 hours ago, BusyOctober said:

“The Killings on King Road”

Should they be reporting on this before the trial?  

[Medicine Crow]

15 hours ago, CrystalBlue said:

After having just bingewatched a few of the latest episodes on the NBC Roku app (not to be confused with the Peacock app), I'm thinking the two-hour format is just an excuse to run 10 commercial breaks with multiple ads in each break.  If it weren't for Keith Morrison I wouldn't bother.

I finally watched the show last night & was taken aback at how "craggy" Keith's face has become.  Gawd!!!  I still love him, though.

[iMonrey]

On 5/20/2023 at 7:23 AM, BusyOctober said:

Oh, Dateline.  You are really trying my patience.  Enough with the 2 hour re-hashing of older stories and calling these episodes “new”. Adding 8 min of previously unaired tidbits is not worthy of titling the other 112min as “new”. ( Especially if it means I have to slog thru those 120 min with Andrea Canning repeating her own questions, and the interviewee’s answers, incessantly)

I was about to type the very same thing and you beat me to the quick. So, I guess just . . . ditto.

[ketchuplover]

Surprised no one associated Papa Rodger with killer incel Elliot Rodger

[12catcrazy]

I saw on the news last night that Kohlberger didn't enter a plea at his hearing and the judge had to enter a "not guilty" plea.   Does anybody know why it would be in his interest (assuming it was) to not enter a plea himself?  

Honestly, the more stuff that keeps coming out, I don't have any doubt that the cops got the right person.  And my guess is that he was after one of those blond girls and the other three wound up as collateral damage.    And my other guess would be that if he had gotten away with this murder it wasn't going to be a "one and done".   This guy was an angry person who probably had a lot of bones to pick on the world in general and he would eventually get triggered by something to want to kill again.    I'm glad he was caught.  

[iMonrey]

Secrets in the Ozarks: I guessed cousin Billy as the murderer from the start, it seemed too obvious. What's weird is that initially he had an alibi but they never explained why that turned out to be false. It seems like the first investigator - the one with the yellow pants - just didn't do a very good job. The second one had it solved in a relatively short amount of time. I'm surprised Yellow Pants agreed to go on this show, it sort of made him look bad.

I don't feel too sorry for Casey either. I think he must have had a pretty good idea who killed Rebekah.

A lot of dangling plot points to this one, I don't think we got the full story. Billy didn't seem to have any motive that the show was willing to tell us about. And what became of Rebekah's mother? How did she get custody of her kids when she was clearly so unstable, instead of the father with a steady job? No mention of what happened to her.

Whenever the murder victim has a dog I always wonder what happened to the dog, too. Apparently Lady was at Rebekah's funeral, I hope someone gave her a good home.

[Irlandesa]

9 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I don't feel too sorry for Casey either. I think he must have had a pretty good idea who killed Rebekah.

I'm not sure why.  He didn't know Billy stopped by.

9 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Billy didn't seem to have any motive that the show was willing to tell us about.

I don't think Billy was completely honest.  By the time the second cop revisited him, he had a history of arrests related to violence against women even if managed to avoid trials in both cases.

It's possible tried to put moves on her when he realized she was alone, she fought back and he killed her during the fight.

I think that's the motive.

[TVbitch]

I also felt Billy did try to sexually assault her, but didn't want to confess to that. Maybe to avoid getting hassled in prison. 

Didn't understand why the second detective broke down in tears over what he thought was "the biggest blunder of his career" when he let Billy talk to his mom. It seemed like BIlly whispered to his mom that he was guilty, and maybe he wanted to tell her first before he confessed. Then he came right back in and confessed. So maybe it had been the right call. The actual big blunder was by the polygraph guy not finishing the Miranda. Thank goodness he got a signature. 

Edited June 4, 2023 by TVbitch

[Irlandesa]

3 minutes ago, TVbitch said:

Didn't understand why the second detective broke down in tears over what he thought was "the biggest blunder of his career" when he let Billy talk to his mom.

OMG.  Same.  I thought maybe Billy ended up killing himself or something but nope.  He just stepped out and came back.

[leslieo54]

2 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

OMG.  Same.  I thought maybe Billy ended up killing himself or something but nope.  He just stepped out and came back.

Me three! I was thinking maybe he *didn’t* really do it and he had somehow conspired with his mom in his whispering to protect the real killer or something, but no… It was just completely incomprehensible? 🤷🏼‍♀️

[iMonrey]

On 6/3/2023 at 8:21 PM, Irlandesa said:

I'm not sure why.  He didn't know Billy stopped by.

He knew Billy stopped by the night before when he was home with Rebekah, and presumably he knew what kind of person Billy was. At the very least I'm sure he suspected it was Billy. Hell I suspected Billy and I don't even know him.

Edited June 5, 2023 by iMonrey

[patty1h]

Dateline is putting themselves in line for a class action suit for deceptive programming - they are frequently repackaging old episodes and labeling them as NEW.   *This is sarcasm*

No more than 3 minutes into tonight's episode, "Bad Intentions" (Texas DA gunned down on the sidewalk), I knew I'd seen this already.  I did a search in this thread and I found they had explored this case back in 2015.  Stop the madness.

Edited June 10, 2023 by patty1h
Don't take the 1st paragraph seriously

[UsernameFatigue]

2 hours ago, patty1h said:

Dateline is putting themselves in line for a class action suit for deceptive programming - they are frequently repackaging old episodes and labeling them as NEW.   

No more than 3 minutes into tonight's episode, "Bad Intentions" (Texas DA gunned down on the sidewalk), I knew I'd seen this already.  I did a search in this thread and I found they had explored this case back in 2015.  Stop the madness.

If I have seen this story before, I have forgotten it. But within the first few seconds Dateline made it clear that it was a story they previously had covered. Lester Holt talked about the startling new allegations (those made by the ex wife who was interviewed) and went on to say  "Be there as a new chapter unfolds....". So while I do agree that at times Dateline is not clear that they are revisiting a case, I don't think that is true with this one. 

But as far as the case goes....yikes. Hard to believe that the murdering ex judge would not have figured out that he would be a suspect if he kept on killing. The DA already suspected him, but I wonder if it is possible if he would have gotten away with it if he had stopped at one murder. But it seems like these delusional maniacs always think they are too smart to get caught. But in the end it was both  carelessness and good old video cameras that did him in.

How sweet that the daughter of the murdered wife, and son of the couple's friends ended up together. But such a sad case. 

 

[patty1h]

13 hours ago, UsernameFatigue said:

If I have seen this story before, I have forgotten it. But within the first few seconds Dateline made it clear that it was a story they previously had covered. Lester Holt talked about the startling new allegations (those made by the ex wife who was interviewed) and went on to say  "Be there as a new chapter unfolds....". So while I do agree that at times Dateline is not clear that they are revisiting a case, I don't think that is true with this one.

My bad on bashing Dateline -- I skip the intro so I didn't hear Lester's statement about new info and I bailed on the episode about 15 minutes in since I already knew this case... didn't hang in long enough to see the updated facts, etc.    Plus, it didn't come across in writing, but I was teasing about Dateline being sued.

Edited June 10, 2023 by patty1h

[Chalby]

On 5/6/2023 at 5:58 PM, BusyOctober said:

Yes, Ricky should have cut ties with Amy long before getting to the moving in stage.  On the law books, and in Ricky’s parents’ minds, and probably most of the audience watching, a 20-21 year old has no business being in an intimate relationship with a 15-16 year old.  But it happens, right or wrong.

I realize I'm getting old, but is it really uncommon for a 16 year old to be dating, or living with a fellow who just turned 21? I understand 80% are happily entering grade 11, but there's always those who seem more independent.

I remember being fully aware that I could legally move out of my parents home at 16. The only issue would have been re: social assistance. If I wanted help, my parents would have to sign an order stating they aren't providing me with financial assistance. Most parents refused to sign because their child has a home to live in. My parents refused also.

Anyhow, I moved out at 16 and after 18 months, asked to come back home to return to school. Not once did I feel odd dating fellows aged 17 or 20, 22. It's not like laws were broken... Or were they?

Anyhow, it was the best thing I ever did. I ended up getting 3 certificates, Bachelors, and two post baccalaureates all because I didn't ever want to be that broke again.

[Chalby]

On 5/13/2023 at 11:25 AM, Annber03 said:

I think this one stuck out to a lot of people because of the wackadoo cult aspect, and Lori thinking her kids were possessed or were demons or whatever the hell it was she claimed they were. A

Good point, and I remember another murder referred to as "worst". It was the real estate woman whose face was bound in duct tape, the same as Vallow's son. Vallow's daughter was burned and dismembered.

Killing children always brings out revenge fantasies in me, and I recognize people can also have a dramatic visceral reaction to hearing about aphixiation by duct tape. It's beyond cruel (and hard on those of us with claustrophobia.) When I heard the boy was taped, it truly affected me. So yes, there can be "worse" degrees of murder

[Chalby]

On 5/8/2023 at 11:55 AM, UsernameFatigue said:

I don't see Ricky at all as a grown man treating Amy improperly. He was obviously a very immature 20-21 year old who was treated improperly by Amy and her friends. They used him for whatever they could get from him. Amy was manipulative from the start.

As an aside, I was surprised that the age of consent in California is 18. It differs from state to state, but in many it appears to be 16. Where I live, in Canada, the age of consent is 16. 

Yes! Maybe it's something to do with Canada, but 16 was always the age where if you felt you could do better being on your own, parents and child could choose to go. I remember my son was being so immature, rebellious and defiant after he turned 16, and he was stunned when I told him he didn't have to live under my roof. Boy, his attitude turned around by the time he turned 17.

[iMonrey]

I hadn't seen "Bad Intentions" before but this was a convoluted episode. They spent the bulk of the first hour covering the murder of Mark Hasse with all kinds of red herrings about the Aryan Brotherhood, and a Colorado cop gunned down by a white supremacist which turned out to be totally unrelated.

Then the story pivoted to Mike McLelland and his wife's murder, the eventual arrest of the suspect, and at the end of the day Eric Williams was never even tried for Mark Hasse's murder! I felt like the entire first hour was a complete waste of time. Did I really need to hear about how Mark loved donuts and cookies? Unless it turns out the donut delivery guy murdered him I don't see how that's relevant.

I'll never understand why defense attorneys like the one who represented Eric Williams agree to go on this show and defend such defenseless and utterly preposterous positions. Are they just advertising for other murderers to hire them?

Quote

within the first few seconds Dateline made it clear that it was a story they previously had covered. Lester Holt talked about the startling new allegations (those made by the ex wife who was interviewed)

Oh, were those the "new allegations?" Uh, nice try, Kim. Nobody's buying what you're selling. (And who knew they're allowed makeup in prison?)

I've always been sort of fascinated with Andrea Canning's jewelry sets, and in this one she and Mark Hasse's co-worker, Andrea, were wearing very similar necklaces. It made me wonder, coincidence? Or does some jewelry company loan them these pieces for free advertising?

[Mondrianyone]

2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I've always been sort of fascinated with Andrea Canning's jewelry sets, and in this one she and Mark Hasse's co-worker, Andrea, were wearing very similar necklaces. It made me wonder, coincidence? Or does some jewelry company loan them these pieces for free advertising?

I wish it were for free advertising! Because if it were, then we'd know who was selling the pieces and where to find them. I've been especially coveting that pink gemstone pendant she's worn a few times, and I spent several hours Googling in vain. Andrea's wardrobe is kinda nuts, but her jewelry is usually very much on point.

[JudyObscure]

On 6/10/2023 at 12:12 PM, iMonrey said:

Oh, were those the "new allegations?" Uh, nice try, Kim. Nobody's buying what you're selling. (And who knew they're allowed makeup in prison?)

The first time I noticed that it was Susan Smith, the woman who drowned her own children.  There she was in court wearing a denim shirt and jeans (no orange jumpsuit  in her prison) that would have cost more than my current T-shirt and sweats, with a fresh bouncy perm and full makeup. Sometimes the prisoner has blonde streaks that would cost $200 in a good salon. 

It burns me up.  At least I had the pleasure of seeing Lori Vallow  in court with her black roots grown six inches long, but she's still getting that red lipstick somewhere.

 

[CrystalBlue]

3 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

The first time I noticed that it was Susan Smith, the woman who drowned her own children.  There she was in court wearing a denim shirt and jeans (no orange jumpsuit  in her prison) that would have cost more than my current T-shirt and sweats, with a fresh bouncy perm and full makeup. Sometimes the prisoner has blonde streaks that would cost $200 in a good salon. 

It burns me up.  At least I had the pleasure of seeing Lori Vallow  in court with her black roots grown six inches long, but she's still getting that red lipstick somewhere.

 

Keith Morrison pointed out that Lori Vallow made her own lipstick from red candies (probably those little round cinnamon discs like Red Hots and Vaseline).

[JudyObscure]

1 hour ago, CrystalBlue said:

Keith Morrison pointed out that Lori Vallow made her own lipstick from red candies (probably those little round cinnamon discs like Red Hots and Vaseline).

Ahhhh, from necessity comes great invention, particularly when you don't have much to think about other than how pretty your lips are going to look when the end times hit and you start being  queen.

[LuvMyShows]

On 6/3/2023 at 9:51 PM, TVbitch said:

Didn't understand why the second detective broke down in tears over what he thought was "the biggest blunder of his career" when he let Billy talk to his mom. It seemed like BIlly whispered to his mom that he was guilty, and maybe he wanted to tell her first before he confessed. Then he came right back in and confessed. So maybe it had been the right call. The actual big blunder was by the polygraph guy not finishing the Miranda. Thank goodness he got a signature. 

IIRC, the detective himself never said it was the biggest blunder...that was Josh M's guess and teaser before they headed to commercial. After the commercial break, the detective himself explained the crying I think by saying you work a case for long and it gets to you, or something like that...he didn't say anything blunder-related about that particular scene.

[TVbitch]

wrong show!

Edited June 20, 2023 by TVbitch

[iMonrey]

"Behind The Closet Door." Whoa, I was surprised the jury found Chris Johnson not guilty, and after deliberating only an hour. I was fairly confident of his guilt.

What pinged me from the start were all those messages he left on Andrea's answering machine. Clearly it's before cell phones were very common, and he worked at Home Depot. Why call that many times throughout the day just to say when he'd be home, when presumably he's home the same time every day? He also never seemed to express any interest in why she wasn't home. Seems very much like he was just trying to establish an alibi.

Then when the undercover cop was trying to shake him down for the five grand he said "There was never any agreement" like he did in fact know Bobby Joe.

On the other hand . . . I felt like the defense was fairly strong, for once. The taped interrogation of Chris felt very "Making A Murderer" to me, feeding him all those lies until he made a false confession. And Bobby Joe seemed like the obvious suspect, his last murder was almost identical to Andrea's, even down to putting the body in the closet. Also the investigator did seem to be prompting Bobby Lee during her interview with him.

I dunno. I still lean towards Chris being guilty, but I'm persuadable.

[Ohmo]

Behind the Closet Door = new to me.  Damn, that Chris Johnson is slick.  He's got everyone fooled.  I COMPLETELY believe that he was involved, and he got away with it.  His mild manneredness started pinging my BS meter early on---like he was laying it on a bit thick.  i also thought all of his behavior in the interrogation room was like the Dateline version of Steve Urkel---Did I do that?

He never once said "No, I'm not involved."  It was always some BS qualifying answer.  I think Andrea had Chris talk to Bobby Joe about the computer, and Chris realized that he could handle the issue with Andrea discovering his fascination with porn.

I know Bobby Joe's a career criminal, but that's why I believe him.  Andrea's purses were missing, and he took the coin collection, which I think he believed would get close to $5K.  He was counting on jurors to believe Mr. Mild-Mannered Milktoast would never be involved in a crime, and I don't think he ever had an intention of paying Bobby Joe.  That's why the money wasn't there.

2 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

I dunno. I still lean towards Chris being guilty, but I'm persuadable.

I agree with you except for being persuaded.  I think Chris's behavior was all a facade, and everyone bought it.

[UsernameFatigue]

I totally think Chris is innocent, and that the jury got it right.  I think that for a few reasons.

First of all, the interrogation where police were able to convince Chris that he did it, by lying that they found his fingerprints on Andrea. If he had hired Bobby Joe to kill Andrea, he would know the police were lying and simply say that he had nothing to do with it. We have certainly seem enough false confessions made by innocent people who are bamboozled by lying/underhanded police. 

What would make Chris think that Bobby Joe, someone he had never met, be capable of killing Andrea? And why would Bobby Joe not want to meet the person who has hired him, and at least get some money up front? And of course his ex wife testified that they didn't have caller ID, showing that Bobby was lying about recognizing the phone number as the same one Andrea called from.

The most preposterous lie to be was that Chris said he would leave the $5,000 in the closet. Which closet- there had to be at least two others in the apartment. And if he specified in the bedroom closet, where? In an shoe? In a jacket pocket? Pants pocket? Shoebox? It would be like finding Waldo. What would stop Andrea from coming across it before Bobby showed up to kill her?

There was no evidence that Chris made any payment to Bobby. Chris also had no reason to know that Bobby was in jail for a short time just after Andrea was killed. Why would Chris double cross Bobby, and then not worry that someone who killed a lady nice enough to give him a computer, not also come back and kill him for double crossing him? 

I would have come back with the same verdict that the jury did. I hope Chris is successful in suing, as I don't see how the case ever made it to trial.