All Episodes Discussion

[ridethemaverick]

It'd so weird how different shows present different facts.

I saw this story on a different show (and ID show I believe). The police found a wig under the husband's bed that matched the hairs in Chiquita's hand. I don't know why Dateline didn't mention it.

[OpieTaylor]

Of course this doesn't justify her husband killing her, but it was pretty nervy of the wife to come right back home once her boyfriend dumped her. Was it ever said if she had taken her kids with her to her new place?  If not, that was really awful to leave them behind, especially with a husband that she felt was abusive to them. Surely she must have taken them with her, because she had the restraining order against him for a matter involving their son. How tragic, then, that they all came back. I wonder if the husband would have found a way to kill her anyway, even if she hadn't returned home. 

[cooksdelight]

This newspaper requires you to jump through hoops for a story, so I'm posting the entire thing here. It sounds like she did indeed leave her kids at the home when she moved out.

 

 

 

BRECKENRIDGE - A Summit County jury convicted photographer Dale Bruner of second-degree murder Friday night for the brutal killing of his wife, Stephanie Roller Bruner, in November, 2010.

The jury deliberated for only four hours before returning guilty verdicts on all six charges against Bruner: one count of second-degree murder, two counts of first-degree assault and three counts of tampering with evidence.

Bruner showed no outward emotion as the judge read the jury's decision Friday night, but members of Roller Bruner's family hugged, cried and smiled as they received the news.

"He got what was coming to him," Roller Bruner's sister Ramona Roller said at a press conference immediately following the verdict. "Justice was done."

Roller Bruner's family members said they would sleep a little easier that night knowing Bruner was in jail.

Bruner, who has been out on bond and living in Fort Collins since he was indicted by a grand jury a year ago, was led out of the courtroom in handcuffs and taken to the Summit County Jail.

Sentencing is set for Sept. 28.

Prosecutors Mark Hurlbert and Kristine Word said they were pleased with the verdict Friday night and relieved for the victim's family.

"We are very happy with this verdict and grateful to the citizens of Summit County that sat on this jury," Hurlbert said.

Word added that they were glad to be able to get justice for Stephanie Roller Bruner.

"We just wish we could do more," she said.

Defense attorney Robert Bernhardt declined to comment.

Following the verdict, jurors gathered outside with family members, talking and hugging.

The prosecution called the Roller Bruner case classic domestic violence and noted that, for victims, the most dangerous time in an abusive relationship is when they try to leave.

"Women are ashamed, they're embarrassed, they never expected to be in that kind of a relationship. It's difficult for them to reach out," Word said. "In this case, in the final days for Stephanie, she did reach out in her bravest days. Ultimately and tragically, that led to her death."

Bruner faces up to 48 years in prison for the second-degree murder charge, up to 32 years for both first-degree assault charges and up to 18 months on each of the tampering charges, according to prosecutors.

Stephanie Roller Bruner's body was discovered in the Blue River in November of 2010, three days after Bruner reported her missing from their home in Silverthorne. She'd died of a combination of strangulation, blunt force trauma, hypothermia and drowning.

Without sufficient physical evidence to make an arrest, a grand jury was convened seven months later, delivering an indictment against Bruner.

Testimony in court over the last two weeks indicated the Bruners' marriage was falling apart in 2010. Roller Bruner, a dance instructor and mother of three, had taken out a restraining order against her husband, filed for divorce and was seeing another man.

The prosecution characterized the case as domestic violence and called Roller Bruner's friends and family members to the stand to testify to her fear of her husband, the couple's marital problems and Bruner's alleged history of physical abuse of women in his life.

The defense called the case one of "speculation" and "conjecture," claiming the police had led a sub-par investigation and never looked seriously at anyone other than Bruner.

Bernhardt also focused on the lack of physical evidence in the case.

Over the course of the trial, the jury of two women and 10 men saw graphic photographs of the discovery of Roller Bruner's body and of her autopsy. They also heard Roller Bruner's own voice, recorded during a court hearing for the restraining order she was seeking against her husband weeks prior to her death. On the recording, Roller Bruner cried and said her husband had threatened to kill her years before, if she ever tried to leave him.

Prosecutors said strangulation was Bruner's trademark after Roller Bruner and two other women who had dated him said he'd put his hands around their throats during heated arguments.

Bruner reported his wife missing just before Thanksgiving, 2010, telling authorities they had gotten into a small fight the night before and that she'd gone for a walk to clear her head.

She never came home.

The following morning he tried to call her cellphone several times before taking his children to the school bus and contacting the police.

On Nov. 26, 2010, her body was discovered in the river, about a five-minute walk from her house. Cause of death was later ruled a combination of blunt force trauma, strangulation, hypothermia and drowning.

Bruner was publicly named the prime suspect soon after.

The Bruners had been married 11 years.

Their three young children are now living with Roller Bruner's brother and his wife in California.

[Ohmo]

I remember this story, but I think it was on another show.  Her friend pulled attention through the whole story, and there were constant shots of her friend dancing (quite amateurishly) through the entire segment.  That stuck with me so strongly, I almost couldn't watch this episode.

 

I didn't recognize this case until you mentioned this, RedheadZombie.  It was a 48 Hours episode, and the friend was dancing around an empty chair.  I'll have to watch Dateline's version.

Edited July 27, 2015 by Ohmo

[methadonna]

I couldn't recall whether it was the usual case of been-there-done-that-seen-it-covered-on-another-show that made me immune to their good try at "but there WERE other suspects" / so certain that Of Course The Husband Did It, or whether it was simply because, HOLY SHIT THAT MAN OUT-CREEPED KEITH, EVEN WHEN MATCHED HEAD-TO-HEAD IN THE ONE-ON-ONE INTERVIEW.

They could put in all the non-prison-y backdrops and non-prison-garb-wear fake-outs they could muster to try to build any suspense to the episode; the moment they let that man's soulless eyes be seen and sociopath voice be heard and Stephen Collins doppelgänger face attempt to emote like real, soul-ed human beings' faces do, the jig was up, and the only question I had was how long the jury took , and, after I had that, what they must have done with the remaining three hours and fifty minutes they'd have had left after finding him guilty before they returned to the courtroom.

Damn, he creeped me right the hell out. And, given the way Keith spoke to him, I think he, if not creeped, repulsed Keith to the point of not even attempting to conceal his disgust or the outcome, too. Oh, his daughter walked in to find them "cuddling," eh? Because, if he just said it enough times, his nine-year-old daughter would just believe what she heard him saying rather than what she'd seen him doing, right before her mother was murdered. And the jury and, uh, America, would just believe him too. What a vile, vile man.

Conversely, what the [male] friend said, re: instances of domestic abuse (knowing about hers/the regret of not having done enough, and trying to help others in general)--[something to the effect of] "it may have only been two times [that he'd attacked her before]. Well, three, and she was dead,"--will stick with me and haunt me for a long time, I think. In your face and almost crude, in an important and powerful and poignant way that [uggh, sometimes the English language is a sick and powerful thing of its own: I cannot come up with a phrase that says what I mean here that doesn't also, whether literally or euphemistically, refer to or evoke violent imagery, and "pun not intended" really isn't the tone I'm going for... like... "that simply cuts to the heart of the matter," or "that doesn't pull any punches," etc. but, I'm sure you get my point.].

[Lovecat]

I remember this story, but I think it was on another show.  Her friend pulled attention through the whole story, and there were constant shots of her friend dancing (quite amateurishly) through the entire segment.  That stuck with me so strongly, I almost couldn't watch this episode.

 

 

I remember this being done on another show, too, RedheadZombie, because of my second-hand embarrassment at the dancing - lol

 

 

I didn't recognize this case until you mentioned this, RedheadZombie.  It was a 48 Hours episode, and the friend was dancing around an empty chair.  I'll have to watch Dateline's version.

Thanks for clearing this up!  I was watching with my BF, and asked him, "Is this the one where the friend does that awful dance with the chair at the end??"  He thought it was, too, but it never came.  I watch too many of these shows, man.

[cooksdelight]

Rerunning tonight, in spite of NBC's posting a different episode earlier today. :)

[cooksdelight]

A DNA breakthrough in a more than a decade old murder case leads two determined detectives to surprising suspects.

[Lizzing]

Based on what was presented on the show, the case against the boyfriend was extremely thin.  The cops couldn't put the boyfriend even meeting the killer duo.  I know the actual killer guy picked the boyfriend out of a photo array, but he could have known what the boyfriend looked like from casing the house.  And, if the boyfriend had hired him, why did he have to mess with the lock to case the house/freak out the victim?  And why would the boyfriend then insist on the locks being changed the day before the murder?  But my biggest question was this:  if these wannabe murders for hire wanted $60,000 to kill the victim, and wanted half up front, where did the boyfriend get the money?  Did he pay at all?  If not, why do the murder on credit?   If the couple were living in a kinda crappy apartment, with one car between them, hardly any furniture, and not making a hell of a lot of money, where in the hell would the boyfriend get $6,000, let alone $60,000?  Really, the only thing that really gave me pause about the boyfriend's string of alibi receipts was the Home Depot one for plumbing supplies to fix his sister's toilet.  The dude worked at Lowe's, which carries an abundance of plumbing supplies, and he'd probably got an employee discount.

[biakbiak]

Really, the only thing that really gave me pause about the boyfriend's string of alibi receipts was the Home Depot one for plumbing supplies to fix his sister's toilet. The dude worked at Lowe's, which carries an abundance of plumbing supplies, and he'd probably got an employee discount.

We thought the same thing particularly when he had just left work. Though the economics make no sense and neither do the logistics, I mean it's Baltimore the boyfriend didn't need to fly in idiots from Colorado to kill her.

I also wonder who approved their insurance policies and what the monthly premium was on them.

Edited August 1, 2015 by biakbiak

[ari333]

My first thought was that the number one on the wall in lipstick seemed fishy; but if the plan for that was to indicate  "# 1" as in, " this is my first victim and I'm a serial killer," then why was the house tossed like a burglary / robbery? Serial killers kill or  they may rape AND kill, but they don't usually rob, right? No sign of forced entry on the brand new locks that were just changed the day before is also fishy. Iow, it seemed like a setup. Also, this happened in 2000. Regarding the DNA under her nails, I thought DNA technology was pretty advanced at that time; So I guess I don't know things.

 

Wow. Not blaming her, but I dont' open the door at night when I peep through the hole and it's a stranger. But it's good that she did see him at the door  and that she was so scared that she  told her friends and described him. That was helpful to her case. It was good that the hiller could pick Cooke's photo out of that group.

 

They said that Heidi pushed the insurance just because SOMEONE faxed some documents and they decided it was Heidi who faxed them? How can they know who faxed them? Did she go to some store like Kinko's and they stated that it was Heidi? Bc I doubt they had a fax machine in their home IDK. 

[cooksdelight]

This entire story was screwy all the way around.

[ari333]

Also, did they say how Bennett, the killer, got into the home if there was  no apparent forced entry?

Do you guys recall if Cooke, the bf, actually spoke on this show? I recall plenty of photos.

[Morbs]

I thought only the bf's sister or something was interviewed, but I don't know.

 

I wonder why she was so creeped out by the guy knocking on her door and saying he wanted to start a community watch.  He must have been a terrible actor.

 

I liked the narrator saying, "a batch of low paying jobs that evaporated like the morning dew."  Soooo beautiful.

[ari333]

700,000 $ policy, not married, no kids, not much furniture, not high paying jobs is odd. ANd then there's the  timing. Insurance policies initiated two months before a death that was supposed to be an accident. I guess insurance covers murder too? I cannot believe they, LE, didnt' take the computer. Wow.

[cooksdelight]

700,000 $ policy, not married, no kids, not much furniture, not high paying jobs is odd. ANd then there's the  timing. Insurance policies initiated two months before a death that was supposed to be an accident. I guess insurance covers murder too? I cannot believe they, LE, didnt' take the computer. Wow.

The only thing this adds up to is someone was making meth in the spare bedroom and things went to hell pretty fast. :)

[Cherrio]

Also, did they say how Bennett, the killer, got into the home if there was  no apparent forced entry?

Do you guys recall if Cooke, the bf, actually spoke on this show? I recall plenty of photos.

I don't think he did, which usually early in the show for me says he or she did it.    Pictures only?, they are in prison.

          It was a really screwy case, but the insurance would clinch it for me.  Her friends saying she wanted out and the rest of the circumstancial evidence. Most cases are won that way.

[JudyObscure]

It was a really screwy case, but the insurance would clinch it for me.  Her friends saying she wanted out and the rest of the circumstancial evidence. Most cases are won that way.

Yes, it was the life insurance that convinced me.  All the other questions can be answered with -- these were three of the dumbest criminals ever. Let's not forget, making a bomb and calling in a bomb threat to the police,  in order to get a guy out of the house so they can steal his car.




[tobeannounced]

I know we weren't privy to all the facts, but there's too much reasonable doubt for me to convict if I was a juror.  The boyfriend probably did it based on the insurance thing, but it could be an unfortunate coincidence too  Weirder things have happened in this world.  

 

What a couple of screwballs the "hit men" were.  If it wasn't so tragic, it would be funny.  "Let's open a club!  But we don't have any money.  Hmm, I know!  Let's become hit men and advertise our services on the internet!."  Good grief.

Edited August 1, 2015 by tobeannounced

[callmebetty]

I know we weren't privy to all the facts, but there's too much reasonable doubt for me to convict if I was a juror. The boyfriend probably did it based on the insurance thing, but it could be an unfortunate coincidence too Weirder things have happened in this world.

What a couple of screwballs the "hit men" were. If it wasn't so tragic, it would be funny. "Let's open a club! But we don't have any money. Hmm, I know! Let's become hit men and advertise our services on the internet!." Good grief.

I know! How did you just go from club to killing people? What kind of mind set is that? I've needed extra cash but deciding to just kill people to make it has never crossed my mind.

That said the whole insurance thing was wonky. It certainly makes the bf look guilty.

[Stampiron]

Also, did they say how Bennett, the killer, got into the home if there was  no apparent forced entry?

 

I don't know if they said, but according to other sources Bennett testified that Cooke left him a key.

 

Other info:

 

A few years after her death, Bernadzikowski's family filed a civil lawsuit over the life insurance policy. Family members said Cooke should not profit from her death.

At the civil trial in 2004, Meyer testified that Cooke was the sole suspect in the killing. In a settlement, the family received about 80 percent of the insurance payout, according to a news report at the time. Cooke received 20 percent."

In January 2012, police obtained a warrant to arrest Bennett.

Cooke told The Baltimore Sun he was relieved. By then, he had started a family; he said police had harassed him throughout the years.

"They pulled a real number on me — harassing me and harassing my family members," Cooke said. "I was absolutely so certain that they weren't even looking for anyone else.

 

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/crime/blog/bs-md-co-dundalk-cold-case-trial-20150607-story.html#page=1

 

After Cooke, Lewis and Bennett were all jailed, prosecutors said, Cooke tried to solicit an inmate to kill Lewis. Jurors found him guilty of witness intimidation and first-degree assault in that plot, but acquitted him of attempted first-degree murder and other charges.

 

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/baltimore-county/bs-md-co-dundalk-cold-case-verdict-20150618-story.html

Edited August 1, 2015 by Stampiron

[Lizzing]

Stampiron, thanks for the additional information. :)  Given what Dateline gave us, I wondered why the victim's family was so, so sure Cooke was behind the murder.  Now, with the additional information about the civil suit, it gives more insight.  I often think Dateline drags out a 2 hour case, but this is one time I think the extra hour could have fleshed out the story more.

[Ohmo]

I finally got around to watching this episode.  I think the reason that everyone confused this episode with the 48 Hours piece was because Dateline also interviewed the dancing friend.  Only Dateline didn't focus on the dancing.  They did, however, focus on Stephanie and Dale's daughter.  I don't remember 48 Hours mentioning that the daughter testified that her parents fought that night.  However, it's been a long time since I've seen the 48 Hours version.  Ditto on watching too many of these shows.

[Taylorh2]

The Devil and Bobby Parker: 

[cooksdelight]

This is airing again right now, even though it's showing up on my DVR as a new one.

[cooksdelight]

After losing a hard-fought custody battle, a mother vanishes with her nearly one-year-old daughter, forcing the father to embark on a desperate, two decade search for his child across four continents, making international headlines along the way.

[Morrigan2575]

That sentence was bulshit, if the father kidnapped the daughter he would have gotten way more time in prison.

I'm sorry mother or not you don't get to steel your kid away from her father, she destroyed that poor man's life.

I tried to have some empathy for Savannah but the fact that she met with everyone connected with her mother but couldn't meet with Harris after he flew to Australia and waited a month only for her to send him an email! Devastating.

I also got annoyed with the whole meeting all her mom's friends and their kids on video but putting restrictions on Harris? !

Honestly the whole thing seems fishy I wouldn't be surprised if Lee wasn't still manipulating the situation and playing her daughter off Harris.

[cooksdelight]

That was so sad at the end, I had tears in my eyes. I was furious with that sentence as well. At least the woman is stuck in the U.S. for the rest of her life, which means maybe Savanna will come back. But still..... it sounds like Lee has filled her head with abuse stories her entire life. That poor man is living out there by himself, never remarried. I felt so sorry for him, he is a true victim. I agree with him, too, Lee should have gotten a sentence equal to the years she stole from him.

[MonicaM]

I think it will be difficult for the daughter to see her biological father as anything except an enemy for a long time.  Her entire life was turned upside down and unfortunately, it happened in a way that makes it look to her as if her father is the bad guy.  

 

We all love happy endings, but in real life, often these situations end with less than satisfactory relationships between the child and the parent who was left behind.  

 

 

[applecrisp]

I know Deadline Crime with Tamron Hall has its own site.  The last one I watched was about a mother who had not seen her two boys taken at 2 and 4 years old by her husband.  They seemed so similar. Both stories were full of despair and heartbreak for the spouse who did things legally. 

 

I did not know what to make of Mom's personality disorder but I do think there was something to it.  Just sad.

[cooksdelight]

The DA discovered that the mother had been planning to runaway with the baby long before the baby fell at her grandmother's house and had a bloody nose. I'm glad she got some jail time, at least.

[methadonna]

Has Andrea Canning always approached her interviews from the "Some people will argue that not everything can be presented in the form of argument that is your responsibility to counter; do you think I proved that they're wrong?" position of negative questioning, and I just never noticed before, or did she just save that style NOT for the typical weekly The Husband Did It murderer, nor, say, a... Kidnapper or something, no, but rather for Holy. Fucking Shit, Lady, Like This Man Hasn't Already Been Through Twenty-Plus Years Of Hell And Apparrently Maintained A Level Of Grace And Dignity Throughout That I Rarely Make It Through A Single Trip Through The Checkout At Walgreens Upholding; Is Your Goal To Be The One To Finally Break Him Of It With Your Question Style?

I was struck/put off by how she inverted the phrasing early on to ask about, " some people will argue it was wrong to rip a baby away from its mother so early on, as that bond was forming..." (Something to that effect, leaving him to make the counter), but I thought, ok, she's just presenting the points that surely would be made, to ensure his points are made clearly, albeit in a more argumentative and negative way than seems necessary for someone who [surely] is on his side. But, then, she KEPT DOING IT. As the interview went on, she kept presenting her questions as if she were arguing for the other side [as if there WERE another side .... "but surely you weren't really being this patient" as he talked of waiting to meet his daughter, knowing he had to allow the investigation to progress, or to allow his daughter to be the one to determine when she was ready ... "yes, because I'm. It a negative asshole intent on turning people off the first time they meet, the way you are," I waited for him to say. I don't know-- I've never thought about much about her one way or the other; I think I liked her enough for her to have never stood out one way or the other before, so now Im curious as to whether this is common and just never set me on edge before or she just responded to him differently. Hmmm.

As for the case itself, it's just heartbreaking alll around. And that, on top of all of the other layers of mindfuckery heaped upon this young woman, the man she was raised to believe was her father DIED ONE WEEK before alll this went down? I have to wonder if that cruel bit of irony hasn't left her less open to getting to know her [other] dad/...even subconsciously. I cannot* get over that that woman only got months in jail. I don't know--due to my own experiences with a parental kidnapping attempt-- that it WOULD have surprised me otherwise, but given the international level of it, and the costs that must have been involved, I d think there would have been a stronger fight from the Feds. There's a sick irony to the fact that her real punishment--being kept on probation in that little town for however many years--will force Harris (?dat his name? Dad?) to live, after all this time searching for her, nearly imprisoned in town with her (while his daughter is literally half a world away still).

[tobeannounced]

methadonna, I too thought the way Canning phrased some of her questions was very insensitive to the father.  What a sad story.  I hope if/when Savannah becomes a parent she realizes what kind of hell this man has been through and has some sympathy for him.

[partofme]

Going to play Devils advocate here. Sure it was wrong of the mom to run, but I'm always suspicious of dads who fight for full custody.

[cooksdelight]

Going to play Devils advocate here. Sure it was wrong of the mom to run, but I'm always suspicious of dads who fight for full custody.

If the mother was acting crazy like he and the family said, wouldn't you? For the best interests of your child's safety? Maybe it was just the husband who made her crazy, but that's all he had to go on.

But I know what you mean. It's unusual.

[ms.o]

It's probably because I've been doing family court cases for too long, but I thought they were both manipulative liars. She obviously planned to run away for awhile, but I feel he wanted to "win" over "I want my child".

I think what sealed it for me was that he hadn't had any contact with her since Christmas and he seemed just fine with it. You've spent 20 years looking for your daughter, yet you seem so blasé about seeing her again. I just didn't get the impression that he felt it was best for her, but rather he got what he wanted (ex arrested) so case closed.

I would be interested in knowing how many court appearances there were during that month he was in Australia and how much he was involved with it. That was my first thought as to why he stayed so long.

I'm not siding with mom either. I'm team Samantha.

Edited August 9, 2015 by ms.o

[jenkait]

This episode hit a weird nerve with me, and I appreciate the comments above. I've been through the alienating experience with my mother (she managed to alienate my siblings from our father for years, but I was old enough to see what she was doing).  As a result, I usually default to sympathy for the dads.  OTOH, as a woman of childbearing age I actually did side with Andrea Canning on the "you planned to take a baby from it's mother?" comment.  I did balk when Harris said he was going for full custody...not that I think a mother should have full custody, either.  If the girl had been 6 or something, and the term "primary custody" was used, I think I would've been OK with it.  I think a father would be perfectly capable of raising a baby, but the "full custody" thing bothered me.  I get the feeling neither of those two were on their best behavior during the custody battle, losing sight of who really mattered...their child!

 

Of course it was horrible and criminal what the mother did...poor Savanna/Samantha.  Of course she's totally messed up from all the lies her mother told her.  She only seemed to be 20 or so...hopefully in time she'll be able to develop a relationship with her dad.  Hopefully there's still time for them.

[Ohmo]

Going to play Devils advocate here. Sure it was wrong of the mom to run, but I'm always suspicious of dads who fight for full custody.

 

I completely believe Harris, and I find it sad that that Lee essentially got away with her crime.  It's like this episode had a sick sort of subtitle in favor of Lee.  "How to Abduct your Child and Get Away with It with a Mere Slap on the Wrist."  Lee started putting this plan together before the alleged abuse incident.  There are no other abuse incidents on file, and in the '90s, I think family courts were still more likely to favor the mother.  The fact that the judge gave Harris full custody is indicative of an issue with Lee, I believe, because I think that decision was more atyical then than it would have been today.  I think the judge must have felt that something with Lee was amiss

 

When mental illness is part of a family, and you grow up with it, you don't necessarily recognize it if you're a child.  Savanna/Samantha kept saying that she never saw anything like that with her monther, that this could not be true unless Lee had done a complete 180.  That she had a good childhood.  From experience, it is possible to not notice it because you explain it away or you call it other things.  It is possible to have a good childhood.  It is also possible for mental illness to exist in a family under those conditions.  Savanna/Samantha is in her 20s.  She may not be old enough yet to see her childhood as it might have been.  The man who she believed was her biological father also seemed to be fairly emotionally stable.  One stable parent can hide a great deal.

 

What I find most sad is that Samantha/Savanna seems totally disengaged with the fact that this was a crime.  I can appreciate the fact that she won't abandon her mother, but she didn't seem willing to engage her father in any sort of meaningful way as an individual.  Factually, this was a crime, yet all of Savanna/Samantha's actions in the United States were in the defense of her mother.  I feel like Samantha/Savannah was simply going through the motions with Harris out of a sense that she was expected to do so.  I felt sad at her lack of curiosity, even with the fact that she obviously wants a relationship with her mother.  She seems almost perfectly content with her mother's version of events, even though she knows there's more to her life.  It came across as a weird sort of list: Mom got arrested, I found out that she abducted me, I went to the United States and met a bunch of people, including my biological father, Mom had a trial and was sentenced, and back to Austrailia I go.

 

I know that I've never been in Samantha/Savanna's situation.  I could never know what that's like, but I find it sad to see how completely Lee's plan has succeeded.  Harris may physically have his daughter back in body, but she seemed completely lost to him in spirit, even at the most basic level.

[LGGirl]

Going to play Devils advocate here. Sure it was wrong of the mom to run, but I'm always suspicious of dads who fight for full custody.

I'm with you here. Something didn't ring true with everything the dad said. I would have liked to hear from the mom. Just felt the story was one sided.

Either way, the loser was Savannah.

Edited August 9, 2015 by LGGirl

[Enigma X]

I think that Lee did this to get back at Harris for winning custody. I think that part of Harris's search for Savanna was to get back at Lee. I also think that they both loved Savanna, but this whole thing was powered by vengefulness on both sides.

 

With that said, the criminal is Lee and she should have paid the price. Harris paid the price twofold by not watching his child grow up and having her reject him as an adult. I am not blaming Savanna. She is the biggest victim but that is because of Lee not Harris.

 

I see many people are on what is being called "Team Savanna." I guess I am on "Team Child Savanna." Savanna/Samantha is an adult now and is surely shaped by what happened, although she may not realize how much yet. But child Savanna missed out on forming (or not forming) a bond with her biological father who I do not believe abused her. Basically, adult "Samantha's" view of the situation is skewed.

 

Also, I agree with those who are stating that this let's the kidnapping parent be the poster child for other kidnapping parents to believe that they will get a slap on wrist if they get caught for kidnapping their kid just because they gave them a "good" life. Really? Isn't that what all parents should do without expecting special treatment? Without abducting their kid?

[Ohmo]

I think that Lee did this to get back at Harris for winning custody. I think that part of Harris's search for Savanna was to get back at Lee. I also think that they both loved Savanna, but this whole thing was powered by vengefulness on both sides.

 

I'm having a difficult time understanding the perception that Harris was somehow vengeful.  He divorced Lee.  People divorce their spouses all the time.  He filed for custody of his child because he had concerns about his ex-wife's mental state.  A concern that the judge must have shared in some capacity because Harris was awarded custody.  There is absolutely no indication that the judge was biased or that Harris tried to unduely influence the judge.  Therefore, I have no reason to not accept the findings of the judge or question the judge's credibility.  Harris also did not keep Savanna from Lee.  Lee abducted Savanna during a weekend visit.  I don't see Harris fighting for the custody of his daughter to be a vengeful practice.  I just don't.

 

I don't find Harris's messages to be vengeful either.  Now, I'd feel differently if he actually knew where Savanna was and was sending these messages and poetry to her to try and influence her.  But that wasn't what happened.  He had no idea where she was because his ex-wife ABDUCTED his child.  He was probably very pissed off because he lost decades with his daughter, so yes, he probably felt vengeful at Lee, but it's not like she didn't deserve it.  At the time that he created those messages and poems, he had no reason to think he'd see Savanna any time soon.  He couldn't find her.  I don't see the search itself as vengeful either.  So, what was he supposed to do?  Just call it a day?  Then, he'd be accused of being a deadbeat who didn't care about his missing child.

 

Look, I know that Harris is not a perfect man.  No parent is, but the Dateline episode did not present anything to me that supports Harris being called "vengeful."  He did not take Savanna anywhere.  Lee did that, and I think what she did is being skewed by the fact that her second husband was a decent man who loved Savanna.  Good for Savanna...very good actually, but I wonder if vengeful would be used to describe Harris if Lee had married a raging alcoholic who had beaten Savanna.  There is no indication that Harris acted or induced anyone outside the rules, and there's a difference between anger and vengence.  I think Harris was indeed angry, which he had every right to be, but I don't think he was vengeful.

[cooksdelight]

All the writing and the videos that Lee did....I hope he gave those to Savanna. And I hope she took them to heart and didn't just toss them aside.

[Enigma X]

Ohmo, I meant after Lee abducted Savanna that probably Harris's motivation, not his main motivation, was revenge. Honestly, with the information presented, I am not finding Harris at fault in this situation at all.

[Ohmo]

Sunday Night: The real story behind missing baby Savanna Todd

 

This is an Australian news article.

 

“Yes, she knows what her mother did was wrong, that she was breaking the law by taking her, but as far as she is concerned, there was absolutely no other motivation than love.

“She’s adamant that she had a wonderful upbringing, that she had a fantastic father in Jan and was thrown wonderful birthday parties and lived in all these countries, Botswana, and Singapore and Malaysia, New Zealand.....she has nothing but love for her mother.”

 

“

She told us all that in that moment (the truth was revealed) she found out just how strong her mother’s love for her was. That she wouldn’t have done what she did unless she felt it was absolutely necessary to keep her safe.”

 

 

This seems like some sad version of Stockholm Syndrome.  I hope that one day Savanna/Sam decides to gives Harris a chance at having a relationship with her.

[Mannahatta]

What a sad story - which raised more questions then it answered. I would have loved to have seen an interview of the (understandably anonymous) Australian couple who contacted Harris. I know they said that he deserved to know where his daughter was, but what motivated them to do all that detective work to begin with? It made me wonder if everything in the home was not as perfect as the daughter says.

[Siena]

Harris wanted Lee to have an abortion.

Harris did not have his daughters best interests at heart because he took a nursing baby from her mother at 6 months. Babies should nurse 1-2 years.

Lee was not bipolar as one psychiatrist who was paid by and was a witness for Harris said

Lee would not have been able to hide a bipolar disorder

Savanna/Samantha had a better life than she would have had raised by a narcissistic parent

Harris' body language (eyes) during interview show he lied if anyone's interested I'll watch again and give exact answers when this happened. I noticed it happened twice

Family court is corrupt

Lee is a hero

[Mannahatta]

Siena

Harris' body language (eyes) during interview show he lied....

 

Apparently it's not easy to tell if someone is lying by their eye direction.

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/12/lying-eye-direction-study_n_1667677.html?utm_hp_ref=science

 

 

Lee was not bipolar as one psychiatrist who was paid by and was a witness for Harris said

Lee would not have been able to hide a bipolar disorder

Now that's an excellent point that had me wondering as well. That's why watching these shows can be so frustrating. Was Lee labeled as bipolar just because she was acting out her anger at Harris? Will expert witnesses - including psychiatrists - say anything for a buck? It seems like there was a lot of mud slinging during that custody fight. (Slightly off-topic: I saw the documentary "The Staircase" a few years ago and the defense's "expert' witnesses made my skin crawl.)

[Ohmo]

What a sad story - which raised more questions then it answered. I would have loved to have seen an interview of the (understandably anonymous) Australian couple who contacted Harris. I know they said that he deserved to know where his daughter was, but what motivated them to do all that detective work to begin with? It made me wonder if everything in the home was not as perfect as the daughter says.

 

There was that brief mention that there was a falling-out between the Australian couple and Lee. I wonder if that had somethiing to do with the couple's decision.

[cooksdelight]

This is one of those that I'd like to see a followup show.

[crazychicken]

There was that brief mention that there was a falling-out between the Australian couple and Lee. I wonder if that had somethiing to do with the couple's decision.

Here is an article with the man who contacted Harris Todd and why

http://m.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/dorothy-barnett-who-kidnapped-own-daughter-was-turned-in-to-police-by-former-friend/story-fnn8dlfs-1227218252340