All Episodes Discussion

[cooksdelight]

I’ve seen all kinds of things in court, as much time as I spend there as a victim’s advocate. People who have never set foot in the court house go by what the media tells them when they vote. What may look like incompetence on the part of law enforcement, judges, DAs can also be the boundaries that are set by law. I’m in the middle of a case right now that is causing me to lose sleep, knowing how the law is set up and there’s not a damn thing I can do. I’m glad Hupp’s finally having to be held responsible for her actions, and at the same time there is a lot we don’t know.

[mythoughtis]

Where is Pam Hupps’ husband? Are they still married? Because I wouldn’t have stayed married to a spouse like this when they took that money back out of the trust fund.  Even if that was my first clue that she might have had something to do with Betsy’s death.  I would definitely have gone to see the divorce lawyers when the police showed me the info they had about  the man she killed at the house.  

Edited October 1, 2019 by mythoughtis

[gaPeach]

I not only don't understand how the cops were so blind to Pam's obvious motive I don't understand how the mother said even if they found someone else responsible, she would still believe Russ did it???  She even said he was kind and loving to her and her daughter but somehow Pam convinced her Russ did it.  Even after Pam stole the money meant for her grandchildren???  People are very strange.

[Mondrianyone]

On 9/27/2019 at 10:59 PM, Annber03 said:

Alford plea. Damn, that is slick. 

And the woman who came forward with the security-cam footage (the one who drove off with Hupp) was Carol Alford.  Not a common name.  Life can be so strange.

[Annber03]

1 minute ago, Mondrianyone said:

And the woman who came forward with the security-cam footage (the one who drove off with Hupp) was Carol Alford.  Not a common name.  Life can be so strange.

Truth really is stranger than fiction, isn't it? 

[Tabbygirl521]

On 9/30/2019 at 1:24 PM, iMonrey said:

The thing that gets me about Hupp is that she basically got away with murder (maybe 2) so why did she bother with another elaborate murder scheme just to frame Russ? If she was that psychotic the police should have picked up on it almost immediately. She was basically in the free and clear, even after Russ's murder conviction was overturned. She couldn't leave well enough alone.

I think she must have been worried she could eventually be charged with Betsy’a murder, since the case was still open I think she was trying to throw suspicion back on Russ; even though he couldn’t be retried, she might have thought renewed suspicion of him would keep the heat off her.

[Lsk02]

Finally. 

https://fox2now.com/2019/10/03/pam-hupp-to-be-investigated-for-murder-of-betsy-faria/

[car54]

Quote

 Earlier this week, it was revealed that every piece of evidence collected by Lincoln County that led to a wrongful arrest is missing. All of the follow-up Pam Hupp interviews, in which she changed her story, were also missing.

That county!

[patty1h]

I need a shower after watching the episode "Haunted" about poor Susan Powell.  I knew about her FIL's fixation with her but seeing the video of him where he zeroed in on her butt, crotch, chest, etc. make me grossed out.  This poor woman had two sick men in her life and one ended that life and took her boys with him.

So sad for her family to not knowing where she is for all this time.

[Annber03]

First things first, Jennifer is incredibly brave and I admire her for confronting Josh point blank as she did. 

I find it rather fucked up that there's not a law in place that could've charged Steven on some level for having Susan's nail clippings and pieces of clothing and pubic hair in his possession, 'cause it's pretty damn obvious she wasn't giving him that stuff of her own free will. That is beyond creepy and no sane person would ever have stuff like that in their possession. 

I wonder if that judge ever regrets allowing Josh to have visitation with his kids. I hope they do. I truly do not get how the hell somebody can rightly say, on the one hand, that the kids should be removed from the home because of the disturbing stuff found on Steven and Josh's computers and Josh's behavior (which is bad enough to the point where he's actually ordered to undergo an evaluation, no less), and then on the other hand still suggest that he should be allowed visitation with his kids. What the hell kind of logic is that? Clearly the fact it was supervised didn't do a damn thing to protect the kids, as we all tragically saw. If he'd been denied any access to his kids whatsoever, and if Susan's parents had received permanent custody of the boys, imagine how different things could be now. 

I remember those interviews Keith had done with Josh and Steven back when they first covered this case on "Dateline". They were creepy enough in their original context, they're downright chilling to watch now. There's absolutely zero emotion in Josh's voice as he speaks about Susan. His wife is missing and the best he can come up with to reflect on what she means to him is that they were both diligent with their finances and they both liked to clean? What? I also got a shiver when Keith asked Josh if he could ever imagine himself being convicted of this crime. The way he said, "No" in response...I can't help wondering if he was already formulating his dark escape plan even then. 

And Steven's interview is just as bonkers as I remember. Talking about how she kept pressing up against him and flirting with him and whatnot, like he's such a catch. And he's all, "I was just enjoying it!" as well. Just. Ugh. I loved Keith's disbelieving facial expressions throughout that interview-I wonder if he had any thoughts about wanting to slap the creep upside the head and telling him to get the fuck over himself already. 

I liked hearing about the detective who worked this case going back to study psychology, in the hopes that he could better understand people like Josh and what drives them to do the horrible things they do. I honestly don't know that even the most trained of psychologists could really explain or fully understand people like him and Steven, but if studying this stuff can help this detective come to terms with all of this, even if only a little, then good. Maybe it'll prove helpful for him should he, God forbid, work another diabolical case like this. 

And I like that Susan's parents go around and share their story to try and help others see the warning signs. It's also touching to know people are still trying to look for Susan even now-I sadly agree with the detective that the chances of her being found are pretty slim, but hell, never hurts to try, right? Even if they only find a trace of her, at least they might get a few more answers from that, and a chance to properly bury her.

[cooksdelight]

That was a gut-wrenching episode. The father and his two sons were some sick sons of bitches.

[LittleIggy]

On 10/4/2019 at 11:34 PM, cooksdelight said:

That was a gut-wrenching episode. The father and his two sons were some sick sons of bitches.

You couldn’t make up a story as crazy and horrific as this case. Those poor little children. I hope Susan’s story encourages women to leave abusive relationships. Whatever your religion, put your own safety (and your children’s if you have any) first, then wrestle with your belief system.

Edited October 6, 2019 by LittleIggy

[LakeGal]

This case completely creeped me out.  I remember it.  But the added details only made it worse.  Steve keeping his daughter-in-law's used tampons and pubic hair.  Ewww!  When I was 16 my boyfriend's father gave me a sloppy French kiss on New Year's Eve.   He was really drunk.  I was creeped out by that.  But it was nothing compared to this guy.

I kept wondering about Josh's mother and where she was in this story.  We ended up looking it up after to see where she fit in. Sounds like she tried helping Josh get custody of the boys.  But she had divorced Steve so at least she had enough sense to do that.   

[LakeGal]

LakeGuy just informed me about some more info on Josh's mother.  Susan's life insurance was at over $2 million.  Susan's parents were in charge of the trust for her.  The insurance company did not want to release the money since Susan had not been declared officially dead.  Josh's mother and younger sister (not the one on the show) went to court to get Susan declared dead so they could go after the insurance money.  The insurance company finally released the money.  It is said that Susan's family and Josh's came to an agreement on the distribution of the money but the details were not disclosed.  Obviously Josh's mom wanted that money.

In the divorce between Steve and his wife the wife said that Steve shared pornography with the children.  Steve claimed his wife was a witch.  What a looney family.

[iMonrey]

This really was a sad story. I hope some day, someone will find Susan's body, but considering the trek Josh made in the rental car, it sounds like it could be anywhere within 800 square miles. I'm assuming that Susan's DNA is in a database somewhere just in case remains are found some day.

So it sounds like there were five or six kids in Josh's family and only the eldest daughter tried to do the right thing. One of Josh's brothers apparently aided him in some way. I'd be interested to know about the other siblings, what their take on it was, how they're doing now, etc. 

It's a sick family all right. The story about the father-in-law just got creepier and creepier. Good Lord. That video tape of him talking to the camera and saying what an erotic experience he'd just had. I shudder to think what else he did on that tape that they didn't show us.

[Annber03]

1 minute ago, iMonrey said:

It's a sick family all right. The story about the father-in-law just got creepier and creepier. Good Lord. That video tape of him talking to the camera and saying what an erotic experience he'd just had. I shudder to think what else he did on that tape that they didn't show us.

This story was covered on some special on Oxygen earlier this year, and they'd talked to the investigators who had to go through those tapes. They looked so incredibly uncomfortable just trying to discuss what they saw and heard on those tapes. One of them even said something to the effect of, "We saw way more of Steven on those tapes than we ever wanted to see." You know it's bad when even seasoned investigators are like, "This is too much." 

[patty1h]

If there's one good thing about this case, and what helped the investigation, is that three of the people involved put so much of their life on paper or video.  Susan's diaries, journals and letters in the safety deposit box gave a deeper look into the marriage that looked so idyllic to much of the outside world. 

Josh and his dad's penchant for video also helped the world to see them for the deviant, violent and messed up freaks they were.  If this info never came to light, it would probably be hard to imagine what these seemingly "normal" men were hiding.

[TVbitch]

Did he poison her with the pancakes? If so, what was the blood and the cleanup about? 

What is it about Mormonism that you feel compelled to put up with such a total creepy loser who you fear might kill you ...for "eternities." 

Supervised visits, especially with someone under suspicion of crimes should be done in a neutral location. 

[Ohmo]

This may have been the most disturbing episode of Dateline that I've EVER seen.  I'm also sickened by the fact that Josh won in every possible way.  He killed his wife, his children, and completely avoided prosecution.  Susan's body is also likely to never be found.  Evil completely won.

[Annber03]

8 minutes ago, Ohmo said:

This may have been the most disturbing episode of Dateline that I've EVER seen.  I'm also sickened by the fact that Josh won in every possible way.  He killed his wife, his children, and completely avoided prosecution.  Susan's body is also likely to never be found.  Evil completely won.

It was really sobering when Keith and the detective were talking about all the people who wound up dead in relation to this case. The entire Powell family, Steven, and Josh's brother. 

Alongside the tragedy of taking two innocent children and a wife out, I hate that Josh, Steven, and Josh's brother took whatever answers they had with them about Susan to the grave. Beyond that, though, good fucking riddance to every last one of those creeps. If hell exists, there's no question they're there now. 

Edited October 5, 2019 by Annber03

[cooksdelight]

57 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

If hell exists, there's no question they're there now. 

They are sitting at Satan’s knee, no doubt.

[Ohmo]

12 minutes ago, cooksdelight said:

They are sitting at Satan’s knee, no doubt.

...and the boys are with her.  Her friend wasn't wrong when she said that as soon as she heard that the boys were dead, she then wanted Susan to be dead so that she was with them.

Edited October 5, 2019 by Ohmo

[UsernameFatigue]

1 hour ago, Ohmo said:

This may have been the most disturbing episode of Dateline that I've EVER seen.  I'm also sickened by the fact that Josh won in every possible way.  He killed his wife, his children, and completely avoided prosecution.  Susan's body is also likely to never be found.  Evil completely won.

I was thinking the same thing with regards to how disturbing this Dateline was. Many of us here are true crime addicts, and I do remember this case previously with Josh claiming to be camping in the middle of the night. But had no idea that he had killed himself, and his children. 

This episode really brought home how many people are impacted by one person's monstrous acts, and not just family members. The poor law enforcement personal. The social worker who had to take the kids to Josh's home. And as others have said, how the hell did that even get approved that she take them to his house, rather than a neutral place? Mind boggling. I hope the judge had some sleepless nights over that stupid decision. 

You always hope after such senseless deaths as the children that changes are made to give children and (what appears to be usually maternal) family members more protection, rather than less. 

[Annber03]

16 minutes ago, UsernameFatigue said:

Many of us here are true crime addicts, and I do remember this case previously with Josh claiming to be camping in the middle of the night.

It's stunning that he actually thought that would pass as a believable story. "Yeah, I took my young kids camping. In the middle of the night. Up in the mountains. In December. When it's cold and snowy. That's totally normal, right?" 

I remember somebody talking about this case on another site once and they said that even setting aside all the other weird stuff about that story, the area he claims he took them to camp was not camping-friendly at all, so that would've raised some red flags right away as well. 

Edited October 5, 2019 by Annber03

[CrazyInAlabama]

I read that that Susan Powell's family had to fight in court to keep the Powells from burying the grandkids next to the father who murdered them.     Susan Powell's father also waged a successful court case to keep the mother and sister of Josh Powell from receiving the trust fund (from insurance proceeds) after the children's murder by their father.    Susan's father received $2.3 million, but Josh Powell's relatives still received over $700,000+ from another policy.   

[Fable]

This was so sickening.  I'm sure I have seen something about this before, because I remember thinking, not long after the episode started, that this was the dad that blew up the house with kids in it with the social worker right outside.  

I have to wonder why those journals and videos were kept for so long after Susan went missing.  You would think the family would have destroyed them once they realized there was an ongoing investigation.  The obsession must have been strong.  

[Lsk02]

So all that crap Josh told Keith about her journals detailing abuse against her by her family, and that’s why she left, was a complete lie, right? I had hoped Keith would tell us once they got the journals none of them said anything like that. 
 

That was the first time I ever cried during a Dateline episode. I’m not sure what that says about me since someone pretty much always dies, but seeing that little guy interviewed, then the exploded house...ugh. Awful. 

[Annber03]

10 minutes ago, Lsk02 said:

I’m not sure what that says about me since someone pretty much always dies, but seeing that little guy interviewed, then the exploded house...ugh. Awful. 

At one point he even said something like, "I always keep secrets", right? That was eerie. 

I can't imagine what it'd be like to have to interview children about stuff like that. The lady interviewing him was really good-she was friendly and kind and knew how to put him at ease-but man, talk about your tough jobs. 

[thejuicer]

Sigh. RIP Susan and your sweet boys.

So many what ifs and missed opportunities. Why didn't they keep Josh longer the night he was interviewed, why wasn't the house searched that night, how did they let him rent a car and drive who knows where for a day! 

I cringe thinking about Susan's last moments, I don't want to get graphic, let's just say I hope Steven wasn't there.

[walnutqueen]

6 hours ago, Lsk02 said:

So all that crap Josh told Keith about her journals detailing abuse against her by her family, and that’s why she left, was a complete lie, right? I had hoped Keith would tell us once they got the journals none of them said anything like that. 

I think Keith said that the journals didn't mention anything about abuse.

[iMonrey]

Quote

Did he poison her with the pancakes? If so, what was the blood and the cleanup about? 

I'm assuming he killed her at home then took the body out to the desert somewhere and had to take the kids with him so he told them they were all going camping. I can't think of any way Susan would have gone with them willingly so she had to have already been dead. 

[TVbitch]

I think so too, but if he poisoned her what why was there blood. Maybe she just vomited on the couch or something. 

FYI, 48 Hours did Patrick Frazee yesterday and it looks like it could be difficult to get a conviction unless they are not disclosing additional evidence. 

[iMonrey]

I don't know where this poisoning idea came from other than the fact that the neighbor lady saw him making pancakes. But only he and the kids ate the pancakes, Susan was untangling yarn or something with the neighbor lady. I think Josh most likely just hit her over the head or shot her. I don't recall if they said he owned any firearms. It seems most likely something that happened in the heat of the moment rather than something he planned.

[Whimsy]

I don't think there was anything new in that episode about Susan at all, but I still watched it again anyway.  That case is like a car wreck.  I just can't look away.  I feel so terrible for her.  My heart always aches for the victims who KNOW they are going to be killed, leave clues, notes, etc, but just don't leave.  They probably keep trying to convince themselves that they are overreacting or something and stay.  Also, I can just never get over my feeling of wanting to vomit when I hear about Steven's obsession with Susan.  She should've cut herself off from him.  Told Josh that she didn't want to be anywhere near him, etc. 

[Dr.OO7]

On 10/5/2019 at 4:22 PM, Annber03 said:

It's stunning that he actually thought that would pass as a believable story. "Yeah, I took my young kids camping. In the middle of the night. Up in the mountains. In December. When it's cold and snowy. That's totally normal, right?" 

On a Sunday night because he thought it was Saturday night and forgot that the next day was Monday.

Jeez. The bastard couldn't even TRY to act worried about her, even saying that he wanted to "wait a few days" before coming to the police station and talking with them some more.

I didn't even bother to watch this, because I know the case and I find it to be one of the most infuriating and upsetting. It enrages me that all three of those responsible for that poor woman's death are dead and beyond justice.

[Annber03]

Tonight's episode. Wow. The people of Sunray must just be so proud to see their small town represented this way :/. 

It truly never ceases to amaze me how so many people in these kinds of stories will be willing to plot and commit murders in the hopes of keeping their kids, and never take a minute to consider the fact that if they get caught and sent to jail, they'll lose their kids then, too. Only that time, it'll be for good. I mean, I know a lot of criminals like to think they'll never get caught and all that, but come the hell on. Hope it was all worth it, lady. 

I just loved how both Charlene and that one guy kept trying to claim they thought Tim was in Kansas to do work for Frito-Lay. Yes, because a company like that totally wouldn't have a particular vehicle for their employee to use or anything like that. No, they'd naturally just let him take some rental car at random to do his business. And then these two are going out of their way to help Tim with this rental car stuff, driving all these hours and putting up this money, but they're totally not asking any questions or anything like that, they just want to help out. Such generous friends they are!

And they claimed they thought he was using this car and making this trip to do work-related stuff, but never once mentioned anything about him calling his employer to tell them about his accident. Sure. That one officer was chuckling at how Charlene was trying to pull this nonsense on somebody with his experience, and I was sitting here like, "Hell, I don't have any police experience whatsoever and I can spot the numerous holes, too." Like, geez, people, if you're going to go this far with your ridiculous scheme, at least try and put some effort into your bullshit story. 

Given how suspicious that cop was of Tim after he'd stopped to help and talk with him, I'm honestly amazed that Tim was still allowed to continue on his trip with all his ammunition intact. Maybe if somebody had confiscated all of that ahead of time, maybe if he hadn't been able to so easily amass that kind of ammunition in the first place, stuff like that, this tragedy could've been avoided altogether. I don't buy Charlene's claim that Amber wasn't an intended target. I could perhaps buy that most of her anger was geared towards Josh, but I could easily see her also being angry that Amber was going to take over the motherly role that she'd lost, and if she happened to end up in the crossfire, too, then so be it. 

Sad story. I feel for those poor children and the families. I hope this does weigh on the minds of all involved as they sit in jail. 

[cooksdelight]

Frito-Lay must be flipping out, they hired this ex-cop who was charged with child abuse and now he’s taking a few days off to commit murder.

Have some corn chips, everybody!

[Annber03]

29 minutes ago, cooksdelight said:

they hired this ex-cop who was charged with child abuse

I couldn't believe that part during the episode when he was talking to the cop and trying to claim that the real reason he was fired was because he was investigating some corruption cases. He made it sound like the police were so angry over that that the child abuse charge was their made up excuse to fire him. No limit to the amount of lies these guys were willing to tell. 

[LittleIggy]

That Bron really was a dumb f*cker. He must have been a HS football player who had his bell rung too many times.

[Lsk02]

Charlene was smirking throughout most of the interview and Josh was correct that there was no remorse. Wonder what she talked to her lawyer about that convinced her to finally turn on the crocodile tears. 
 

I was wondering about that child abuse charge. She filmed her husband slapping his daughter and showed some friends, who ended up turning it in. Which makes me think she had no problems with the abuse. Not surprising knowing she ended up helping kill 2 people, but ugh. She was evil long before. 

[UsernameFatigue]

I think Dateline really oversold that episode. They gave Charlene way too much credit, calling her a master manipulator. Pam Hupp was a master manipulator. Charlene was a garden variety lowlife, married to another garden variety lowlife. 

This episode could have easily been one hour. There was no mystery. The only mystery is why (as another poster wrote) people think that killing the parent of their children will give them custody, free and clear. Because the police will never suspect the woman (in this case) who has lost custody of her kids to the parent who turns up dead. 

So we have three kids, two who are half siblings to the third. The mother and step father of the two have killed the father of all three, the step mother of the two and the mother of the third,  And now none of those three kids have parents. Charlene got off way too easy. 

[Tabbygirl521]

1 hour ago, UsernameFatigue said:

I think Dateline really oversold that episode. They gave Charlene way too much credit, calling her a master manipulator. Pam Hupp was a master manipulator. Charlene was a garden variety lowlife, married to another garden variety lowlife. 

This episode could have easily been one hour. There was no mystery. The only mystery is why (as another poster wrote) people think that killing the parent of their children will give them custody, free and clear. Because the police will never suspect the woman (in this case) who has lost custody of her kids to the parent who turns up dead. 

So we have three kids, two who are half siblings to the third. The mother and step father of the two have killed the father of all three, the step mother of the two and the mother of the third,  And now none of those three kids have parents. Charlene got off way too easy. 

The minute they introduced Charlene, I called it and I’m sure I’m not the only one. She was one of those smirky perps who thinks they are so very appealing and clever that they’ll get away with it. I actually am surprised that she and not Tim cracked and spilled. 

[UsernameFatigue]

7 hours ago, Tabbygirl521 said:

The minute they introduced Charlene, I called it and I’m sure I’m not the only one. She was one of those smirky perps who thinks they are so very appealing and clever that they’ll get away with it. I actually am surprised that she and not Tim cracked and spilled. 

If by introduced you mean before the episode even started where they show random clips of what is upcoming, yep, that is when I knew Charlene was the one responsible. The snippet of the interview with the cops where she is saying "Who, why, that's what I want to know" and the fake anguish in the interview with Josh where she says "I blame myself for everything" (duh - ya think?) was a dead (no pun intended) giveaway. I then wasted the next two hours of my evening.

I still don't understand why Josh thought this was such a special case of evil? Was it because a cop and an ex cop were involved? Josh should know as well as anyone that there are good cops and bad cops. I know cops who became cops because they genuinely wanted to help people. I also know cops who became cops because of the power it gave them, either real or perceived. Tim was not a surprise, at all. 

[iMonrey]

Ditto. I really hate these two-hour episodes - the vast majority of them don't need 2 hours. Clearly Charlene was behind this and it was obvious from the start. Witness her grinning at the memorial service talking to a reporter about her kids having no father. The only thing that kept me guessing was whether or not she was in jail at the time of the interview because she seemed to be wearing civilian clothes. Then at the very end of the episode she stood up and you could see she was wearing orange jumpsuit pants. So it's almost like there was a deliberate misdirect by the show by giving her a regular top to wear for the interview so we wouldn't know right away she was in jail.

[Ohmo]

12 hours ago, Lsk02 said:

Charlene was smirking throughout most of the interview and Josh was correct that there was no remorse. Wonder what she talked to her lawyer about that convinced her to finally turn on the crocodile tears. 

Dennis, not Josh, although I would have been very curious to see what Josh's reaction to Charlene would have been.

[Lsk02]

6 minutes ago, Ohmo said:

Dennis, not Josh, although I would have been very curious to see what Josh's reaction to Charlene would have been.

Oops! Too many people named Josh in this one, threw me off. Thank you! 

[Dr.OO7]

I love my true crime shows, but half the time, I just use Google to look up the case and find out who the killer is. 

Most of these episodes are also grimly predictable--"they had the perfect marriage!" "No, they didn't.", etc. Most of the time, a person's spouse is responsible (and even sadder, there WASN'T domestic violence beforehand) for their death/disappearance.

[UsernameFatigue]

Ha, I said Josh as well. Sorry Dennis - lol. 

[biakbiak]

3 hours ago, UsernameFatigue said:

by introduced you mean before the episode even started where they show random clips of what is upcoming, yep, that is when I knew Charlene was the one responsible. T

This is why I always fast forward until just after Lester’s intro because they give so much away in the first minute, same with the bumpers before the commercials.

[Supagirl]

1 hour ago, Ohmo said:

Dennis, not Josh, although I would have been very curious to see what Josh's reaction

Dennis was amazing during his interview with Charlene. He wasn’t taking any of her bullshit story at all, basically calling her a piece of shit. “I’m not sure what remorse looks like but I’m pretty sure this isn’t it.”