All Episodes Discussion

[JudyObscure]

When there's nothing else on, I can usually find a Dateline repeat on "ID," "OWN, or "MSNBC."  Since my brain is like a rice strainer, they're practically  new to me.  Last night I saw the Dateline special about the huge California fire a few years ago.  They should run that every few weeks to restore our faith in humanity after all the Pam Hupp types we encounter.  They  follow several families through the fire and they're brave selfless people one and all.

[glowlights]

17 hours ago, RedheadZombie said:

Exactly.  Pam was not a diabolical genius.  She was sloppy, short-sighted, and bumbling.   The people investigating and prosecuting this case were willfully ignorant.   They were too lazy to look into her mother's case because she was old.  And no one cares about the brain damaged man who had no money or influence.  I'm amazed they're even investigating the poor man's murder.  I wouldn't be surprised if they ended up prosecuting Betsy's husband.  I'm sure Betsy's mom thinks he did it anyway.  I just hate willful ignorance. 

But diabolical nonetheless! I mean luring a disabled man to her house so she can shoot him in order to frame Faria... WOW. While having the balls to masquerade as a Dateline producer. She's next-level crazy.

I didn't understand the timeline for her mother's death. Pam told the staff that her mom would not be down for dinner or breakfast, then left. Her mom was found the next day. Did Pam sneak back in and toss her mom over the balcony at night, or was her poor mom out there the whole time, unnoticed?

[iMonrey]

I hope nobody takes offense at this, but I can't help wondering if there wasn't a kernel of truth in Pam's story that there was something intimate about her relationship with Betsy. Yes I'm basing that entirely on their looks and yes that's superficial of me, but I can't help finding it somewhat credible based solely on that. Don't get me wrong, I totally believe Pam killed Betsy for the money and maybe whatever it was was completely one-sided, but it wouldn't exactly be a shock to learn one or both of them were either bisexual or lesbian.

[ari333]

19 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I hope nobody takes offense at this, but I can't help wondering if there wasn't a kernel of truth in Pam's story that there was something intimate about her relationship with Betsy. Yes I'm basing that entirely on their looks and yes that's superficial of me, but I can't help finding it somewhat credible based solely on that. Don't get me wrong, I totally believe Pam killed Betsy for the money and maybe whatever it was was completely one-sided, but it wouldn't exactly be a shock to learn one or both of them were either bisexual or lesbian.

I could be wrong, but I did not get that vibe.

Everything Hupp said came across as lies to me.

[pigs-in-space]

2 hours ago, ari333 said:

I could be wrong, but I did not get that vibe.

Everything Hupp said came across as lies to me.

Same.  She was making that shit up as she went along (hence not mentioning it in the first trial) and then having trouble keeping track of the lies she'd already told (the civil case with the daughters where she denied having an "intimate" relationship).

[walnutqueen]

Crime Watch Daily did a short piece on Pam Hupp & reported that although the police have not officially re-opened the case, they are looking in to  the "accidental" death of her mother.   Apparently Hupp's poor Mum had EIGHT TIMES the normal dosage of Ambien in her system when she died. They showed a clip of  a police interview where Pam was claiming her own memory lapses were due to her Ambien use.

[Major Bigtime]

If Mom didn't take Ambien or have a prescription for it, there ya go. Pam's big mouth is her worst enemy.

[Ina123]

Get. The. Bitch.

[biakbiak]

18 hours ago, Major Bigtime said:

If Mom didn't take Ambien or have a prescription for it, there ya go. Pam's big mouth is her worst enemy.

They knew that her mom idn't have a prescription at the time of her death, didn't matter.

Edited December 2, 2016 by biakbiak

[ari333]

Did anyone see "Last Day" last night, Fri, Dec 2, 2016?  

[saber5055]

Did anyone watch last night, "The Last Day," about the married Marine corporal who murdered his girlfriend and threw her body down an abandoned Mohave Desert mine shaft? All I could say was, "WTH?" during the trial when he was trying to make a case for killing her based on some made-up child abuse theory. Never have I seen a Dateline that has been so HE'S GUILTY beyond a shadow of a doubt. Thank goodness the jury agreed with that.

[ari333]

Who borrows a propane tank for a murder? How stupid was this guy?

[ari333]

17 minutes ago, saber5055 said:

Did anyone watch last night, "The Last Day," about the married Marine corporal who murdered his girlfriend and threw her body down an abandoned Mohave Desert mine shaft? All I could say was, "WTH?" during the trial when he was trying to make a case for killing her based on some made-up child abuse theory. Never have I seen a Dateline that has been so HE'S GUILTY beyond a shadow of a doubt. Thank goodness the jury agreed with that.

YES! I commented on the episodes thread. That abuse story was so absurd. I couldn't believe what I was hearing. And who says,"um... uh.....yes I molested your daughter." He was really pulling at straws with that one. sheesh

[Albino]

I hope they continue to investigate the wife.  She seemed oddly angry/happy after her rival disappeared.  Doubt she was out in the desert doing the dirty work, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if she knew it was going to happen or knew afterwards.

In addition to the ludicrous "she was abusing Liberty" charges, I was also laughing when he told detectives they only "kissed" and "touched each other thru their clothes".  Yes.  Of course.  Completely believable.

[tobeannounced]

That was a really interesting case.  I've never heard of it before.  Really sad for all involved.  Couldn't believe that guy would get up on the stand and say he did it all because Erin molested his daughter.  Well, I can believe he did it, but I can't believe he thought people wouldn't see right through it.  Throw something at the wall and see if it sticks.

[ari333]

1 hour ago, tobeannounced said:

That was a really interesting case.  I've never heard of it before.  Really sad for all involved.  Couldn't believe that guy would get up on the stand and say he did it all because Erin molested his daughter.  Well, I can believe he did it, but I can't believe he thought people wouldn't see right through it.  Throw something at the wall and see if it sticks.

I know, right? It was stunning in a pathetic stupid sort of way.. Wow. 

[bubbls]

On 10/25/2016 at 11:45 AM, pigs-in-space said:

Dateline just posted this on their Facebook page - Amber Hilberling, who was convicted of second degree murder after pushing her husband out of the window of their 25th floor apartment, was found dead in her jail cell.  No details on how she died yet.

I know she had a child, and I think her mother had custody.  I wonder if her husband's family can now make a case for custody.

ETA: This article claims some sources say she was found hanging.  It also lists all of her misconduct offenses in jail - 13 in about three years.

 I watched this episode a few weeks ago and was shocked when I got online to research it and saw she had committed suicide. That's a lot of offenses in a short amount of time and tends to back up that she has a temper. I had a bad temper at her age, and there but for the grace of God go I. This episode really hit home with me. 

[LakeGal]

He also gave himself away when he said we couldn't get cell service out there.  He was suppose to be alone. 

[CraftyHazel]

8 hours ago, ari333 said:

Did anyone see "Last Day" last night, Fri, Dec 2, 2016?  

Yes.  I really hated this case...I in no way think that Erin deserved what happened to her, and she was just so young and her killer was just such a creep, but I felt so sorry for her poor husband, who really seems to have loved her.  Her texts with her friend "LOL"-ing about Chris proposing and her romantic little day with him...the day that she was murdered by Chris, mind you...after telling her husband she was going to look for places to take her mom when she visited?  I mean, I feel very sorry for Erin, but I sure didn't like her much.

[bubbls]

On 11/12/2016 at 2:15 PM, JudyObscure said:

 

My heart also breaks for those tragic parents, but this brought out all my questions about the parents in these cases.  They all say things I don't really agree with. "Now our daughter can rest in peace,"   "Now we have justice for her."  To my mind their sweet daughter is not tossing in her grave, but in a place of  total love and peace and she would want her parents to put this all aside, quit dwelling on "justice," and let the police and God worry about the murderer.  It's so sad to me to see surviving family members devote the entire rest of their lives to calling the police, looking for answers, attending every grueling minute of trials.  I know they will always carry the grief but I don't think the intense search for justice that they think they owe their family members really serves anyone best.  (If it was my own family it might all seem different -- I don't know.)

 

I think the same things about families. I inevitably shake my head and say their loved one is in a better place. It's the family who can now rest, the victim doesn't care. At one time it was believed my husband's grandmother was murdered in her nursing home. It turns out she wasn't, but nobody talked about finding peace for her via justice during the time we thought there was a crime. I guess I'm sounding judgmental, but I don't mean it that way. I admire the perseverance it takes to push for justice or to find a missing loved one, and I do feel so sorry they've had to try to endure the unendurable. I tend to curl up in a defeated ball when I'm hit with awful things. 

[bubbls]

I remember watching this the first time and being bug-eyed that they were being taken in by her. Even if you take every inconsistency out of the equation she had two strikes against her--she was the last person with the victim and she benefitted financially!! I understand looking into the husband, but........I have no words! 

 

This is is a case I've often thought about, and I'm glad she's finally going to be prosecuted. It's so sad two more people had to die though. 

[bubbls]

Quote

The animal lover in me spent the whole two hours wondering what happened to her dogs, as at the first of the show when the showed the footage of the police going to her home you could

 

I always wonder this. It breaks my heart, and I always hope someone in the family adopts their loved one's beloved pets. 

[hoosiermom]

http://fox2now.com/2016/11/18/stranger-than-fiction-the-real-story-behind-datelines-report-on-pam-hupp-and-russ-faria/  lots of information about all things Pam Hupp and the ongoing investigation. Seems the judge is being suspended too!

[JudyObscure]

16 hours ago, ari333 said:

Who borrows a propane tank for a murder? How stupid was this guy?

I know, but then this guy had an affair with his friend's wife and later on both couples were hanging out together,  so maybe he thought he could get away with anything. I was amazed to hear John ask Andrea, "Everybody deserves a second chance don't they?"  I wanted to hug him and say, "No honey, that's for the kid who did a bad job mowing your lawn, not for the man who slept with your wife."  We had a young couple living next to us for awhile who were just as meek and ignorant of the world as John and Erin.  They were  as clueless as five year-olds, we hated to move away and leave them without anyone to show them stuff like how to use a shovel. I can't even blame Erin for having an affair because she would have been helpless against the seduction tactics of Mr. Evil.  And speaking of him,  why?  Couldn't he and his hateful wife have gone ahead to Alaska and bothered moose?  It wasn't like Erin was going to follow him.

The horse rescue lady was cool.    I liked the way she seemed to have said, "To hell with sunblock, my horses don't care!"

[Lizzing]

14 hours ago, tobeannounced said:

 Couldn't believe that guy would get up on the stand and say he did it all because Erin molested his daughter.  Well, I can believe he did it, but I can't believe he thought people wouldn't see right through it.

I can't believe that his lawyer let him testify!  I don't believe a word out of Chris' mouth, but you'd think if he wanted to sell the molestation angle, he'd have had his wife testify for him.  I'm sure there's much more to her lack of participation, seeing as how the cops didn't rule out bringing some charges against her, but if I were on the jury, his lack of having his wife corroborate the molestation story would be extremely telling. 

The other thing I found crazy is kind of petty, but I about fell off the couch when the one cop said he had not ever heard of a garrote before.  Don't they teach about murder weapons in detective school?  Has this guy similarly never heard of Jon Benet Ramsey?  I guess he's the dumbcluck for whom every JBR doc stopped and defined the term. LOL!

[tobeannounced]

5 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

And speaking of him,  why?  Couldn't he and his hateful wife have gone ahead to Alaska and bothered moose?  It wasn't like Erin was going to follow him.

I think that was because she was pregnant and thought the baby was his and not her husband's.  I wonder if they were able to confirm the pregnancy.

[AngelinaMaria]

Yes, I was left wondering about the pregnancy as well.  Was it Chris' baby or not? 

[JudyObscure]

Well now I'm wondering:  If a married woman becomes pregnant by another man and stays married, who is the legal father? Could Erin have sued Chris for child support while married to John?

[cooksdelight]

4 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

Well now I'm wondering:  If a married woman becomes pregnant by another man and stays married, who is the legal father? Could Erin have sued Chris for child support while married to John?

I don't think so, not in California. I think she'd have had to be legally separated or divorced to do that. She had the wild idea that Chris was going to run off with her. I hope John finds someone who appreciates him.

[Court]

5 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

Well now I'm wondering:  If a married woman becomes pregnant by another man and stays married, who is the legal father? Could Erin have sued Chris for child support while married to John?

This is weird. If she put John on the birth certificate, he is the legal father. Even if a DNA test disproves it, in the eyes of the law, John would still have to pay child support. At least, in my state. 

[ChristmasJones]

On 12/4/2016 at 3:55 AM, Lizzing said:

The other thing I found crazy is kind of petty, but I about fell off the couch when the one cop said he had not ever heard of a garrote before.  Don't they teach about murder weapons in detective school? 

IIRC, he said he had never seen one before rather than never hearing of one. I took it to mean that in his years in LE, he had never worked on a case where one had been used.  JMO

[Lizzing]

4 hours ago, ChristmasJones said:

IIRC, he said he had never seen one before rather than never hearing of one. I took it to mean that in his years in LE, he had never worked on a case where one had been used.  JMO

The detective said (per my recording), "The pathologist discovered what's known as a garrote.  I was unfamiliar with that at the time, but I quickly learned what that was.  It was a paracord with two rebar handles and it encircled her neck."  Seems to me he never heard of a garrote at all in his life.  YMMV.

[Court]

I wish they could have charged the wife of Chris. It's obvious to me that she knew exactly what happened. In fact, I think it was her plan and she had her husband carry it out. The pregnancy was likely the motive. Did they ever say who the father was? 

Like others here, I had trouble feeling sympathy for Erin. But she didn't deserve to die. 

[callmebetty]

Erin was 19. Still a kid, I feel bad that a stupid mistake cost her her life.  Chris got exactly what he deserved and agree that the wife knew more than what she claimed.

[ari333]

11 hours ago, callmebetty said:

Erin was 19. Still a kid, I feel bad that a stupid mistake cost her her life.  Chris got exactly what he deserved and agree that the wife knew more than what she claimed.

I think the wife knew what was coming and she did nothing to stop it. Sad al the way around, but really sad for the husband who really seemedto love Erin. So sad.

Agreed that the wife of Chris may haveeven planted the idea and he was the oneto carry it out. Yet she went free, right?

[Ohmo]

On 11/19/2016 at 4:28 PM, RedheadZombie said:

I believe in human rights in prison.   I do not support the death penalty.  But I want this woman in the general population.   I want her bullied, humbled, and beaten frequently.  She is a pure sociopath.   Death row would isolate and protect her.  I don't want her there.   Let her be the small fish in the big pond.  Let her hold her own against people who aren't dying of cancer, elderly, or brain damaged.  

I'm behind, and I just got through watching this update.  I believe in the court system, but specifically for Pamela Hupp, skip the trial.  No lawyer, no judge, just throw her in jail forever!  I say that because she has manipulated the system to such an incredulous degree that it has apparently caused many people in St. Louis to become terminally STUPID (cops, prosecutors, etc.)!  She killed THREE people!  I believe that with every fiber of my being.

[Ohmo]

On 8/25/2016 at 9:13 AM, Stampiron said:

The police who arrested Hupp and the prosecutor who announced the charges are not the same as those who botched the Betsy Faria murder case. Different county, different jurisdiction. And in stating the charges, the prosecutor is saying what they believe happened. That's what he's supposed to do. Why mock him for that?

Mock may be too strong a word, but I understand what mythoughts was getting at.  While these may all be different jurisdictions, they are all around the St. Louis area.  Betsy's case got national attention, and Pam was heavily involved.  Since then, there have been not one, but TWO cases where someone has died, and hey, what do you know, there's Pam Hupp.  I understand that each jurisdiction has to do its investigating, but all three jurisdictions have always acted like it's a great revelation that Pam could possibly be involved.  That is absurd to me.  It really is.  Her mother's "accident" should have been investigated as a homicide as soon as the cops found out a) who Pam Hupp was b) her relationship to the woman and c) the fact that Pam was the last person to see her alive.  It should have been investigated as a homicide until it was proven to be an accident.  So yeah, I blame the cops in that jurisdiction, too.  Accident my ass.  Yeah, and the St. Louis Arch is made of chocolate.  Somehow, this woman has been able to wave a magic wand and get three jurisdictions to stop thinking logically.

[RedheadZombie]

Of course I can't guarantee this wasn't 48 Hours, but this case stuck with me - at least the first half.  

A man was observed barreling down the highway until he crashed into a tree.  He's found to have duct tape around his hands, and elsewhere.   It looks like he's been tortured.   His chest has been carved with a knife.  He claims to have been escaping someone; or even they put him in this car with intent for him to ineffectively drive, and die in the crash.  I think passers by reported he looked terrified.

I *think* he was ex-military, but maybe still in.  He was at least in his fifties, soft spoken, normal seeming, straight laced, and he was married.  

The authorities pretty quickly started accusing him of somehow doing all of this to himself.  It drives me crazy that I can't remember how it ends.  I saw it once, probably at least ten years ago.  It creeped me out.  And I believed him.  At least I think I did. 

[Christina]

That sounds really familiar, @RedheadZombie. Did it turn out that his ex-wife and her new husband were responsible? During their divorce, he was ordered to keep her as beneficiary of one of his life insurance policies, and I think that they ultimately managed to link and convict the ex-wife and her husband, but I can't find anything with my quick search. 

[RedheadZombie]

1 hour ago, Christina said:

That sounds really familiar, @RedheadZombie. Did it turn out that his ex-wife and her new husband were responsible? During their divorce, he was ordered to keep her as beneficiary of one of his life insurance policies, and I think that they ultimately managed to link and convict the ex-wife and her husband, but I can't find anything with my quick search. 

I can't remember!  It's driving me crazy!  I hope you're right.  He seemed innocent to me. 

[Christina]

Okay, this is the story I remember, see if it is what you are looking for. I think that it was covered by all the shows. Colonel Shue's death was originally deemed a suicide.

[EtheltoTillie]

On 12/4/2016 at 6:55 AM, Lizzing said:

The other thing I found crazy is kind of petty, but I about fell off the couch when the one cop said he had not ever heard of a garrote before.  Don't they teach about murder weapons in detective school?  Has this guy similarly never heard of Jon Benet Ramsey?  I guess he's the dumbcluck for whom every JBR doc stopped and defined the term. LOL!

DIdn't he see The Godfather?  I also was surprised.  But, like you, more so that he testified as he did.  The lawyer can't stop him, though.  The lawyer can only advise him that it's a bad idea, which I imagine he did--vigorously.

Edited December 10, 2016 by GussieK

[iMonrey]

"Someone Was Waiting" - episode aired 12/9 - they never did explain where Anna got all that money. Something in excess of $100K in her bank account, and only about half of it could be accounted for. And the half that could be accounted for from some older sugar daddy. 

Now, I did think the husband was suspicious during the police interview and I'm reasonably sure of his guilt but not 100%. There was something off about this woman, I kind of got the impression she was a bit of a grifter and solicited money from strange men thru social media.

[Jpxfactor]

"Somebody waiting". I am not totally convinced the ex did it..at least not beyond a reasonable doubt. I think they still have a lot of investigating to do.  One of my first questions was when did she eat the take out, it didn't fit in the time line. 

[Albino]

Dear Dateline:

If you really want to make your Friday Night Mysteries true mysteries, you need to find a better way to disguise the fact that the person you're interviewing is, in fact, incarcerated.  Five minutes into the show and I knew the ex-husband was "the guy".  Blurred background, that telltale blue prison shirt, and the same extreme close-up every time.  Kind of takes the whodunit-ness out of the whole thing.

Agree with posters above...not entirely sure he did done it, but he seems the most likely.  And shame on him if he gobbled up her quesadilla! 

[ari333]

Ana, the Russian lady.....

The son's reaction - or lack of - when told of her death was chilling. Maybe it' s a cultural thing IDK. But don't most people say, "Omg! HOW WHAT HAPPENED?"

"Um... I have to go to class"

LE: "I think you will be excused from class." A parent's murder is an accepted excuse. Wow.

Kind of chilly that the nosy neighbor said that women with an accent are not his type. Just struck me as odd, not that he did it. Just an odd thing to say imo

Bob had "housemates?"  Having to have housemates and debt.... yep..... fishy.

When Bob was initially in the police interview, I sort of bought his story and reactions. He kind of said the "right" things and offered a DNA sample.

And that poet dude was so full of it. He was in love with her. Oh please. If I were his wife I'd be pretty steamed and hurt.

[ridethemaverick]

Ah, the patented Dateline flowchart of presumed sluttiness. I hadn't seen that in awhile.

Anna was probably sugaring with a few men which I have no problem with. And I also had no problem with her keeping her business to herself. Buy yeah I imagine that makes a police investigation very difficult.

I'm also not 100% convinced Bob did it. Pretty much every man she knew was odd in some way, including the neighbor. What WAS with that accent comment? 

There must have been something very magnetic about Anna's personality because, not to disparage her, but I didn't see her as the great beauty the show made her out to be. She was cute, but not extraordinarily so. Married poet guy was definitely in love.

[ari333]

2 minutes ago, ridethemaverick said:

Ah, the patented Dateline flowchart of presumed sluttiness. I hadn't seen that in awhile.

Anna was probably sugaring with a few men which I have no problem with. And I also had no problem with her keeping her business to herself. Buy yeah I imagine that makes a police investigation very difficult.

I'm also not 100% convinced Bob did it. Pretty much every man she knew was odd in some way, including the neighbor. What WAS with that accent comment? 

There must have been something very magnetic about Anna's personality because, not to disparage her, but I didn't see her as the great beauty the show made her out to be. She was cute, but not extraordinarily so. Married poet guy was definitely in love.

Agree on all points. And agree that all the sugars were odd in some way. And that professor gave her $52,000 and got  diddly squat in return? Ok.

I wasn't totally convinced Bob did it.

I wondered if it was the editing, but the show had a kind of a slutty disparaging air to it . If a man is single and dates a few women, no one blinks.  He gets high fives.

Even the boyfriend was odd in that talking to himself stuff in the police room. Don't folks know they are on audio and video? Just odd al the way around .

She was cute, but she must have had some dynamic personality. All the dudes were older or older ish and .. well. not attractive imo. That is shallow of me. I'm older ish so I should shutty.

[ari333]

Red herring Red Bull empty drink can....

How convenient! And cant any doofus get a soda can from anyone walking around and tossing a can into a trashcan? Or dig one out of a dumpster etc? It reminds me of a comic who had a bit about.... that he never throws drink cans into grass etc bc , one, he doesn't want to litter, but two...he doesn't want   to heave a drink can and then later it's found as evidence  beside a dead body. And here we go. HE DID IT!!!

It just seems pretty easy for a perp to plant that kind of stuff to point to someone else.

Edited December 10, 2016 by ari333

[ari333]

Just bc someone's drink can and or ciggy is lying around somewhere doesn't necessarily mean that person was there. Plus, if you're a murderer you take your drink can with you or don't bring it at all in the first place right?  

Also interesting that current science cant tell how long a blood sample (DNA) has been somewhere. They do amazing things. MAybe some day they can date a blood sample. An ex hubby who did some chores and fixing things around the house COULD have a little drop of his blood here or there. It happens. I'm just torn and unsure about Bob. Such an odd bunch.

Wow,that poet dude was totally smittenkitten.... and denying it 'til the cows came home.