Marie Antoinette - General Discussion

[AnimeMania]

Marie Antoinette is a Drama TV Series that will air weekly on PBS starting March 19, 2023 at 10pm in the U.S. Marie Antoinette aired in France on Canal+ in October 2022 and on BBC Two in the U.K. in December 2022. The show has already been renewed for a second season.

Besides the Film Studio Bry-sur-Marne, filming for the series took place in many prestigious historical places, including the Châteaux of Versailles, the Chateau de Fontainbleau, Vaux-le-Vicomte, Lésigny, Champs, and Voisins.

This epic series is one of the most complete accounts of the young Queen to date, and that date is the 1770s. When we think of the Palace of Versailles we imagine opulent decor, gilded furniture, flower-adorned curtains and marble everywhere, not the actual disheveled place that it was, in a time when 2,500 and 3,000 people lived there on a daily basis.

The story takes a more modern, feminist approach to one of history's most infamous women, whom popular culture tends to remember as either a frivolous airhead or an oppressive villain. The last Queen to reign in France before the French Revolution dissolved the monarchy.

The Archduchess of Habsburg, Marie Antoinette is just fourteen when she leaves Austria to marry Louis-Auguste, the Dauphin, the future King Louis XVI of France. When Marie Antoinette arrives at Versailles, she must obey the numerous and complex rules of the French court, known as “etiquette,” which were created by Louis XIV, the “Sun King”. The princess quickly suffers from not being able to live her life the way she wants, while her mother, the Empress of Austria, keeps pushing her to provide a Bourbon heir, while Louis-Auguste's refuses to consummate the marriage. 

Behind the Scenes/Making of...  Videos

Marie-Antoinette - Bande-annonce

Marie-Antoinette en quelques chiffres

Marie-Antoinette – Retour sur le choix du casting et le processus d’écriture

Les coulisses de Marie-Antoinette – De jeune Dauphine à Reine de France

Les coulisses de Marie-Antoinette – La préparation des costumes d’une série d’époque

Les coulisses de Marie-Antoinette – La relation complexe entre Louis XVI et Marie-Antoinette

Les coulisses de Marie-Antoinette – L'envers du décor

Les coulisses de Marie-Antoinette – Louis XV et Mme Du Barry

Versailles à travers les yeux de Marie-Antoinette

Emilia Schüle as Marie-Antoinette, Archduchess of Habsburg
Charlotte Angel    as Young Marie-Antoinette

Louis Cunningham as Louis-Auguste, the Dauphin, the future King Louis XVI of France
James Purefoy as King Louis XV

Gaia Weiss as Madame du Barry, a former prostitute that King Louis XV fell in love with and brought to court 

Marthe Keller as Marie-Thérèse d'Autriche (Empress of Austria), Marie-Antoinette's mother

Yoli Fuller as Joseph Bologne de Saint-George, a Creole virtuoso violinist and conductor who was part of Marie-Antoinette’s entourage.

Liah O'Prey as  Yolande

Martijn Lakemeier as Axel de Fersen

Nathan Willcocks as Mercy

Jasmine Blackborow as Lamballe
Crystal Shepherd-Cross as Adelaïde

Caroline Piette as Victoire

Jonas Bloquet as Joseph II d'Autriche

Oscar Lesage as Chartres
Roxane Duran as Joséphine

Jack Archer as Provence

Edited March 7, 2023 by AnimeMania

[Razzberry]

Looks good.   My local PBS won't air the first episode until Sunday, March 19.   I'm glad because I thought I had missed it!

[Welshman in Ca]

On 3/7/2023 at 9:17 AM, Razzberry said:

Looks good.   My local PBS won't air the first episode until Sunday, March 19.   I'm glad because I thought I had missed it!

PBS also has an app & I've watched things on there the day after they've aired. Of course not everything is available.

Edited March 11, 2023 by Welshman in Ca
Their, there, they're

[Ms Blue Jay]

On 3/7/2023 at 12:17 PM, Razzberry said:

Looks good.   My local PBS won't air the first episode until Sunday, March 19.   I'm glad because I thought I had missed it!

Thanks for the information.  Same here.

[DanaK]

Renewed (at least by Canal) https://variety.com/2023/tv/global/marie-antoinette-season-2-canal-1235557515/

[Razzberry]

Interesting background piece about Joseph Bologne de Saint-George

 

[AnimeMania]

S01.E01: The Slap  

Marie Antoinette is just a teenager when she's forced to leave Vienna to marry the Dauphin, the heir to the French throne; she must produce a Bourbon heir to secure the alliance between France and Austria.

Premiere Date: March 19, 2023    PBS    10pm

[GHScorpiosRule]

This does look good. I'm intrigued.

I think it's hilarious though, that the "go-to" accents the actors are using are English. Why not speak with a French accent?

Then again, this has GOT to be better than the hideous movie that starred Kirsten Dunst, who, among the guy who played her husband, spoke in anachronistic American accents.

[Spartan Girl]

The fashion isn’t quite accurate, but very pretty nonetheless.

Nothing says awkward like meeting your betrothed when he’s carrying a dead bunny. Especially right after you have your puppy taken away from you.

[Razzberry]

OMG it's like a horror show.. terrifying.  Loving it!  lol

[Dirtybubble]

Meh, it's ok so far.  I'll give it a few more episodes to see how it goes.

[Razzberry]

The way it started didn't seem much different than Coppola's film.  On the PBS site it stressed a "fresh feminist take" on the story.  I guess we'll see that later.  I did enjoy the tension and James Purefoy is always welcome.  ;)

[mightysparrow]

This was not made for anyone who knows history.  The changeover from Austria to France was a elaborate affair.  Louis XVI was FAT.  And Antoinette refused to speak DuBarry, who was considered no better than a common prostitute, until forced to by Louis XV.  Disappointing.

[qtpye]

2 hours ago, mightysparrow said:

This was not made for anyone who knows history.  The changeover from Austria to France was a elaborate affair.  Louis XVI was FAT.  And Antoinette refused to speak DuBarry, who was considered no better than a common prostitute, until forced to by Louis XV.  Disappointing.

I know.

I was expecting a little more historical accuracy from PBS.

I will still be watching because I can not resist anything about Marie Antoinette but I will treat it as a soap opera.

 

[GHScorpiosRule]

12 hours ago, Dirtybubble said:

Meh, it's ok so far.  I'll give it a few more episodes to see how it goes.

God, I was so BORED! 

[Spartan Girl]

7 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

God, I was so BORED! 

I know. At least the Coppola film had some costume and food porn to liven things up lol.

Edited March 21, 2023 by Spartan Girl

[One Imaginary Girl]

I was basically watching it to compare it with Sofia Coppola's movie, which I love.  This looks like it was trying to do a 180 from that.

On 3/19/2023 at 7:28 PM, GHScorpiosRule said:

This does look good. I'm intrigued.

I think it's hilarious though, that the "go-to" accents the actors are using are English. Why not speak with a French accent?

Then again, this has GOT to be better than the hideous movie that starred Kirsten Dunst, who, among the guy who played her husband, spoke in anachronistic American accents.

I think it's silly to use accents when the actors are speaking a translation of a foreign language anyway. 

[Constant Viewer]

I do hope she gets her dog back  I thinks she did eventually in real life, but I am not sure. 

[iMonrey]

This just feels very familiar. Maybe it's because it wasn't that long ago I watched Versailles, or maybe because it's very similar to "The Great," although less comedic. And then there's that Kirsten Dunst movie.

I don't know that there's any new "take" to be had on Marie Antionette. Seems like it's been a story that's been done to death.

What exactly is wrong with the Dauphin? Just painfully shy and awkward, or something more than that?

[anoninrva]

2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

What exactly is wrong with the Dauphin? Just painfully shy and awkward, or something more than that?

They are children.  He struck me as maybe autistic.  I don't know.  I haven't read much on them.  That seems extremely speculative.  She was the daughter of the HRE, though.  It was inevitable she would be married off,  just as it was for him.  Mrs. Anon tells me he had to be circumcised,  years later, in order to produce an heir, so there are some mechanical issues with historical Louis.

[Haleth]

It seems as though in every historical drama I see about France the dauphin always has an aversion to sex, and it’s up to his frustrated wife to break through his shell.  The Serpent Queen started exactly like this. 

[libgirl2]

22 hours ago, anoninrva said:

They are children.  He struck me as maybe autistic.  I don't know.  I haven't read much on them.  That seems extremely speculative.  She was the daughter of the HRE, though.  It was inevitable she would be married off,  just as it was for him.  Mrs. Anon tells me he had to be circumcised,  years later, in order to produce an heir, so there are some mechanical issues with historical Louis.

I have heard the circumcision angle before. 

I honestly don't know that much about the time period, the Tudors are more in my wheelhouse (and don't get me started on that HBO series!!), so I watched it knowing it wasn't going to be 100% but I don't know all of the real history.

I enjoyed it and will keep watching it. I might even have to do some reading up on them. 

Edited March 22, 2023 by libgirl2

[Constantinople]

On 3/20/2023 at 7:57 PM, qtpye said:

I was expecting a little more historical accuracy from PBS.

I will still be watching because I can not resist anything about Marie Antoinette but I will treat it as a soap opera.

I too was expecting a little more historical accuracy, and so far it's not interesting enough as a soap opera.

But I'll watch at least one or two more episodes.

[Spartan Girl]

On 3/21/2023 at 9:24 PM, Haleth said:

It seems as though in every historical drama I see about France the dauphin always has an aversion to sex, and it’s up to his frustrated wife to break through his shell.  The Serpent Queen started exactly like this. 

Yeah but this time it’s not because an older woman has her hooks him. Louis was either shy, impotent, or possibly asexual. Maybe all three.

[GHScorpiosRule]

7 hours ago, Constantinople said:

I too was expecting a little more historical accuracy, and so far it's not interesting enough as a soap opera.

But I'll watch at least one or two more episodes.

This is me.

[qtpye]

11 hours ago, Constantinople said:

I too was expecting a little more historical accuracy, and so far it's not interesting enough as a soap opera.

But I'll watch at least one or two more episodes.

I honestly do not know what they are going for with this.

My best guess is gothic horror.

I will have to watch more episodes to make a better assessment

17 hours ago, libgirl2 said:

I have heard the circumcision angle before. 

I honestly don't know that much about the time period, the Tudors are more in my wheelhouse (and don't get me started on that HBO series!!), so I watched it knowing it wasn't going to be 100% but I don't know all of the real history.

I enjoyed it and will keep watching it. I might even have to do some reading up on them. 

I read a novel speculating that Louis Auguste had phimosis which makes erections very painful and had to be circumcised before he could perform sexually.

However, many historians do not believe this because:

1. He never missed a day of hunting (according to his journal). The surgical methods of the time were rather primitive and there is no way he could have ridden a horse to go hunting so soon post-surgery.

2. He seemed to have utterly no sexual interest in his wife (beyond doing his duty) post-surgery and actually never displayed a sexual interest in anyone, male or female.

My best guess is that he was asexual at a time when toxic masculinity (high virility) was expected of upper-class nobles.

Of course, none of us will ever know for sure.

 

[pasdetrois]

Disappointed in the first episode. Attempting to portray a sheltered, wealthy 14-year-old girl resulted in lots of big-eyed gawping, a few clumsy pert remarks, and not much acting. The others were caricatures we've seen many times before.

Not gonna pay for a PBS Passport just to watch this.

[GHScorpiosRule]

11 hours ago, pasdetrois said:

Attempting to portray a sheltered, wealthy 14-year-old girl resulted in lots of big-eyed gawping, a few clumsy pert remarks, and not much acting. The others were caricatures we've seen many times before.

THIS! I was going to stay silent because I thought I was the only one who thought this. And the head tilting or trembling, or whatever it was she was going for. I saw it for free on regular PBS streaming app. But nope. Not paying to see the next episode via Passport.

Is there any way to confirm that the French had such hideous and atrocious table manners? One would think they were uneducated heathens.

[Grrarrggh]

3 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Is there any way to confirm that the French had such hideous and atrocious table manners? One would think they were uneducated heathens.

I don't know, but it was disappointing to see they made Louis Auguste and his bro Louis Stanislas aka Provence so skinny. Pure and utter fiction. 

[Bizabra]

She is so spoiled and stupid. I can't wait until the Revolution.

[Driad]

Louis XIV was the Sun King. Some people call Louis XV the Fun King, and Louis XVI the Done King.

Hoping that people who know the history will continue to comment on what this production gets right and wrong.

[voiceover]

It cracks me up — all this “fresh feminist take” bs, I guess to lure in a new generation who might suppose that, until recently, there had never been Strong Women, in history OR film. 

There’s a 1938 movie, same title/no hyphen, with Norma Shearer in the role.  Her Louis (Robert Morley) was chubby, bashful, and not as dull as he first appeared.  Her Marie was sparkling and clever, and could be a quick study (of politics and people), but guilty of poor choices in friends, and poor choices in general.  But this Marie learned from her mistakes — too late, ultimately.  It’s one of my favorite roles of Shearer’s.  Marie is far from perfect, and far from put-upon.  The scene towards the end when she’s separated from her children is genuinely heartbreaking.

No sex tutorials from DuBarry, tho.  Possibly a Hays Code thing 🤣

 

[AnimeMania]

S01.E02: Rival Queens

Marie Antoinette realizes that producing an heir will not be straightforward. She turns to Madame du Barry, the king’s mistress, for support. But the Favorite begins to see the dauphine as a rival for the affections of the king (James Purefoy). There can’t be two queens.

Premiere Date: March 26, 2023    PBS    10pm

[libgirl2]

14 hours ago, voiceover said:

It cracks me up — all this “fresh feminist take” bs, I guess to lure in a new generation who might suppose that, until recently, there had never been Strong Women, in history OR film. 

There’s a 1938 movie, same title/no hyphen, with Norma Shearer in the role.  Her Louis (Robert Morley) was chubby, bashful, and not as dull as he first appeared.  Her Marie was sparkling and clever, and could be a quick study (of politics and people), but guilty of poor choices in friends, and poor choices in general.  But this Marie learned from her mistakes — too late, ultimately.  It’s one of my favorite roles of Shearer’s.  Marie is far from perfect, and far from put-upon.  The scene towards the end when she’s separated from her children is genuinely heartbreaking.

No sex tutorials from DuBarry, tho.  Possibly a Hays Code thing 🤣

 

That is a wonderful movie. I remember watching it with my ex late into the night. He was not big on old films or history but he was fascinated. 

[chaifan]

I'm on the fence on this show.  The scenery and costumers are so gorgeous it keeps me watching.  But the way the show frames the story of Marie Antoinette is just weird.  They put in all sort of odd things, like the crowd throwing things at Louis & MA in bed, and the atrocious table manners of Louis' children.  I googled the bedroom scene, and apparently that never happened.  (They were supposedly anise seeds, and I have no idea what that was all supposed to be about.)  It would be one thing if there was some exposition to explain these things to the viewer, but nope.  I don't need everything spoonfed, but some things deserve explanation.

But the whole scene with the King and Louis and the tomato had me cracking up!  The King is the best character in the show. 

[libgirl2]

45 minutes ago, chaifan said:

I'm on the fence on this show.  The scenery and costumers are so gorgeous it keeps me watching.  But the way the show frames the story of Marie Antoinette is just weird.  They put in all sort of odd things, like the crowd throwing things at Louis & MA in bed, and the atrocious table manners of Louis' children.  I googled the bedroom scene, and apparently that never happened.  (They were supposedly anise seeds, and I have no idea what that was all supposed to be about.)  It would be one thing if there was some exposition to explain these things to the viewer, but nope.  I don't need everything spoonfed, but some things deserve explanation.

But the whole scene with the King and Louis and the tomato had me cracking up!  The King is the best character in the show. 

I'm enjoying it as is. It is a fun watch. And yes, the King is really the star! 

[iMonrey]

Aww, she got Mops back! I'm so happy for her. In fact Louis seems to be finally warming up to her.

[libgirl2]

38 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Aww, she got Mops back! I'm so happy for her. In fact Louis seems to be finally warming up to her.

I like the way she said "My husband" just reminding that woman of who she is and who she is married to. 

[Driad]

I got rather tired of the political people naming countries but meaning people. "If Austria does its duty" apparently meant "If Marie Antoinette gives birth to a healthy son" with a large side dose of "And if she doesn't, it is 100% her fault (and Austria's)."

Edited March 28, 2023 by Driad

[Constant Viewer]

12 hours ago, libgirl2 said:

I'm enjoying it as is. It is a fun watch. And yes, the King is really the star! 

James Purefoy is always welcome. Glad she got Mops back.

I don't know much about Marie Antoinette so I am not bothered by historical inaccuracies, but I know they are there.

[Melonie77]

I'm looking forward to watching this but thought I would wait until all the episodes aired and then binge-watch the entire season.

Does anyone know how many episodes the first season contains? TIA

[iMonrey]

Quote

Does anyone know how many episodes the first season contains? TIA

Looks like eight.

[Razzberry]

I started reading John Hardman's Marie-Antoinette, and no surprise these sex lessons from du Barry are invented.  MA never even acknowledged her until forced to do so, by saying "There's a lot people at Versailles today." just like in Coppola's film, which so far seems pretty accurate.  One thing that's never been presented on screen is the dauphin's enjoyment of torturing cats.  Not a big animal lover I guess, as he also banished dogs from his rooms.   Not sure about the birdman act.

 

  Is the fruit even real?  I forget what they called it.

[Haleth]

Love apple. AKA a tomato. 

[gingerella]

I watched two episodes of this late last night and had the weirdest dreams. It's such a bizarro show, and if it's not even rooted in real history, what's the point?

[Dehumidifier]

Just happy to have non-British royalty for a change!

[AnnMarie17]

On 3/28/2023 at 11:45 AM, iMonrey said:

Looks like eight.

Yep, there are eight episodes in Season One. You can stream them all now if you have PBS Passport (which you get by being a sustaining member of your local PBS station).  Disclaimer: I work for PBS.  😄

[Dirtybubble]

On 3/27/2023 at 9:38 AM, chaifan said:

But the whole scene with the King and Louis and the tomato had me cracking up!  The King is the best character in the show. 

YES!  In a cast of unlikeable, disgusting characters he really is a joy to watch.  Good lawd those 2 hideous hags hanging around have got to go!  Are they the King's sisters or daughters I can't remember.  I do like the Italian Princess as well.  I can't remember her name and I don't care about her sexuality but I am so glad she's a friend to M.A. She needs it!

I too am glad she got her little dog back but I'll be mad as F if something happens to that cute pup!  I can't take animals getting hurt and while I understand the tradition the scene of everyone hunting down that beautiful stag bothered me 

[gingerella]

On 3/6/2023 at 10:48 PM, AnimeMania said:

This epic series is one of the most complete accounts of the young Queen to date, and that date is the 1770s. When we think of the Palace of Versailles we imagine opulent decor, gilded furniture, flower-adorned curtains and marble everywhere, not the actual disheveled place that it was, in a time when 2,500 and 3,000 people lived there on a daily basis.

I'm watching this on PBS Passport so I don't want to spoiler anything for those watching weekly on PBS Sundays. That said, this series reminds me of a mash-up of Semi-inaccurate period historical drama meets Alice in Wonderland meets Tim Burton's Nightmare. Oh, and add in a healthy splash of modern day vernacular just to throw off us viewers. It's very odd indeed. And yet, I am still watching...

[AnimeMania]

S01.E03: Pick a Princess

The Royal Family holidays at Fontainebleau and Marie Antoinette learns of Du Barry's plan to find a bride for Provence. The escalating hostilities threaten Antoinette's relationship with the King.

Premiere Date: April 2, 2023    PBS    10pm