Marie Antoinette - General Discussion

[janeta]

Ok, I realize that MA is 14 or 15 while this is taking place, but she is the future queen of France. Dubarry is some countess who is a former prostitute and yes, she's the king's mistress, but should still not be outranking the future queen. All I know about this era of European history is what Wikipedia tells me, so I suspect most of this drama and intrigue never actually happened, but I hope MA gets the chance to behead Dubarry before she herself is beheaded.

 

Glad Provence got what was coming to him.  Heh. 

[JustDucky]

58 minutes ago, janeta said:

Glad Provence got what was coming to him.  Heh. 

I was curious about this, so I did a bit of Googling myself, and...

Heh indeed.

Edit to add: it looks like Marie has realized her husband is a different bird, and she needs to get to his level.  I found their last scene rather sweet.

Edited April 3, 2023 by JustDucky
Added my opinion re: the end of this episode.

[gingerella]

I just watched a few of the YouTube links in the opening post of this thread and they really put the show into a different light. I wished I'd watched them before watching the series. This one below, in particular, addresses the modern vernacular which I found so jarring, but now it makes a lot more sense.

 

[lark37]

On 3/29/2023 at 6:31 PM, gingerella said:

I watched two episodes of this late last night and had the weirdest dreams. It's such a bizarro show, and if it's not even rooted in real history, what's the point?

That’s funny as I had weird dreams after watching the first couple episodes too! I love period pieces and other than Sanditon there aren’t many to watch right now that I haven’t already seen. I don’t know much about French history but when I saw James Purefoy was in this, I gave it a go. It’s weird and of course they made everyone too attractive, but I will stick out the 8 episodes then decide if worth watching the second season. 

[gingerella]

1 hour ago, lark37 said:

That’s funny as I had weird dreams after watching the first couple episodes too! I love period pieces and other than Sanditon there aren’t many to watch right now that I haven’t already seen. I don’t know much about French history but when I saw James Purefoy was in this, I gave it a go. It’s weird and of course they made everyone too attractive, but I will stick out the 8 episodes then decide if worth watching the second season. 

I encourage you to watch all the YT videos listed in the first post of this thread. They give you a lot of co text that helps you understand what the series is trying to do. It was really interesting.

[Dirtybubble]

Once you get used the style and the way to story is being told it's not such a bad show.  I kinda like it and I'll watch it til the end.  I knew Victoria wasn't 100% on the level either but I still enjoyed that.  

On 4/2/2023 at 10:59 PM, janeta said:

Glad Provence got what was coming to him.  Heh. 

Indeed what a little snot he is!  

 

[Dirtybubble]

I'm ok with this!

Marie Antoinette Season 2

[lark37]

On 4/3/2023 at 11:01 PM, gingerella said:

I encourage you to watch all the YT videos listed in the first post of this thread. They give you a lot of co text that helps you understand what the series is trying to do. It was really interesting.

Thanks. I will do that tonight before I watch the third episode. 

[Dirtybubble]

The thing I like about this show is the characters, however historically incorrect it may be, are still interesting and entertaining to watch.  Lets take Louis brother Provence for example, omg what a snot he is but he is still interesting to watch and I look forward to seeing how he will react to certain situations.  The thing with his soon to be bride...I had read on a historical site that she was homely looking and uncultured so seeing him run off as soon as he laid eyes on her was hilarious to me!  

And that's just one example; Du Barry, Mercy, Lamballe, even the king all keep me glued to my seat just to see what they'll say or do facts be damned 😄

[Razzberry]

Yeah, I gave up a long time ago expecting scripted dramas to be historically accurate.  As long as they're entertaining I'll be happy, and so far so good.   

[lark37]

After watching all the YT videos Gingerella kindly recommended, I was curious about why they cast a British actor as Louis XVI instead of a French actor like they did with Marie Antoinette.  Turns out Louis Cunningham is descended from royalty, and most likely speaks French or at least Luxembourgish which is a similar language.  He is the grandson of Prince Charles of Luxembourg the brother of the late Grand Duke Jean of Luxembourg.  That means he is descended from the Bourbon-Parma royal family and other royal families as well since they are all so inter-connected.  Here’s an article about him. I am really enjoying this despite its historical inaccuracies.  I like this much more than I did “The Empress” on Netflix.   https://hollywoodlife.com/feature/who-is-louis-cunningham-5053702/

Edited April 11, 2023 by lark37
Emilia Schule (Marie Antoinette) is German not French

[AnimeMania]

S01.E04: Queen of France

Marie Antoinette and Louis are about to make their first official visit to Paris. But when the King Louis XV becomes seriously ill, the succession suddenly becomes a reality. Du Barry knows that if she doesn’t protect herself from the future queen of France, her time at Versailles will be over.

Premiere Date: April 9, 2023    PBS    10pm

[Doublemint]

This was a great episode.  The story took quite a leap.  Looking forward to next week.

[LennieBriscoe]

On 3/26/2023 at 3:45 PM, voiceover said:

It cracks me up — all this “fresh feminist take” bs, I guess to lure in a new generation who might suppose that, until recently, there had never been Strong Women, in history OR film. 

There’s a 1938 movie, same title/no hyphen, with Norma Shearer in the role.  Her Louis (Robert Morley) was chubby, bashful, and not as dull as he first appeared.  Her Marie was sparkling and clever, and could be a quick study (of politics and people), but guilty of poor choices in friends, and poor choices in general.  But this Marie learned from her mistakes — too late, ultimately.  It’s one of my favorite roles of Shearer’s.  Marie is far from perfect, and far from put-upon.  The scene towards the end when she’s separated from her children is genuinely heartbreaking.

No sex tutorials from DuBarry, tho.  Possibly a Hays Code thing 🤣

 

Almost exactly what I was going to post! Including especially the assessment of the "separated from her children" scene.

I vaguely remember once reading that MA spoke no French, one more point against her. But I also drew the conclusion that she was railroaded and didn't  deserve execution. 

The series is IMO typical PBS---drawn out! I was ready to slap the Dauphin and tell him, "Snap out of it!"

[voiceover]

3 minutes ago, LennieBriscoe said:

I was ready to slap the Dauphin and tell him, "Snap out of it!"

A Moonstruck reference!  

[AnimeMania]

Joseph Bologne, Chevalier de Saint-Georges        In Theaters April 21

[Dirtybubble]

8 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

Joseph Bologne, Chevalier de Saint-Georges        In Theaters April 21

So when M.A. and Louis were in Paris at the ball there was a gentleman there playing the violin, I was wondering if that is who he was supposed to be.  It was a very brief scene but they made a point of M.A. kinda eyeing him 

[iMonrey]

The story is moving right along, Louis XV already dead and Louis the XVI already king. I tried looking up some of the histories of these characters but it's more of a deep dive than I wanted to take. I was particularly curious about the connection to Versailles, another series I enjoyed about Louis XIV. I did not realize Louis the XV was the great grandson of Louis XIV. And I kept hearing Louis XV say the Dauphin was his grandson but he didn't look old enough to be his grandfather. I have no idea what happened to his father.

I wasn't sure who Lamballe was supposed to be either so I had to look her up, turns out she was real.

Not sure exactly what went "wrong" with Louis and M.A. trying to consummate their marriage, just too painful for her?

[libgirl2]

46 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

The story is moving right along, Louis XV already dead and Louis the XVI already king. I tried looking up some of the histories of these characters but it's more of a deep dive than I wanted to take. I was particularly curious about the connection to Versailles, another series I enjoyed about Louis XIV. I did not realize Louis the XV was the great grandson of Louis XIV. And I kept hearing Louis XV say the Dauphin was his grandson but he didn't look old enough to be his grandfather. I have no idea what happened to his father.

I wasn't sure who Lamballe was supposed to be either so I had to look her up, turns out she was real.

Not sure exactly what went "wrong" with Louis and M.A. trying to consummate their marriage, just too painful for her?

I always found French royalty very confusing... I think it is all the Louis' .

[BradandJanet]

I've watched two episodes and am not sure what to think. I can't decide if the acting, writing, or directing is off, or more than one thing. The show is strange. I had to laugh, however, when Madame du Barry came into the room where the king was speaking and flopped down in the chair like a pissed-off modern teenager. Would anyone really have done that in public in front of the king? 

[libgirl2]

1 hour ago, BradandJanet said:

I've watched two episodes and am not sure what to think. I can't decide if the acting, writing, or directing is off, or more than one thing. The show is strange. I had to laugh, however, when Madame du Barry came into the room where the king was speaking and flopped down in the chair like a pissed-off modern teenager. Would anyone really have done that in public in front of the king? 

I wondered the same.... somehow, I think even a royal mistress behaved themselves with some measure of decorum. I could be wrong though. 

[Razzberry]

Thank god smallpox is no longer a problem!   When duBarry was kissing his fingers I was thinking Yikes!  I hope she's had it already.

 

So the King is dead, and Louis & MA haven't even consummated successfully.  It seems at first he wasn't even in, then it was painful for her.  It's kind of sweet.  Not sexual abuse as the warning stated. 

[Razzberry]

Looks like Axel Fersen was at the masked ball last week, but won't appear again until the season finale #8.  Apparently the actor is actually Dutch, not Swedish (who all dance well. lol).  Here he is in "Holland's Hoop",  sometimes called a 'Dutch Breaking Bad' about a marijuana grow.

 

The real heart-throb below

[AnimeMania]

S01.E05: Rebel Queen

Her husband Louis is now King Louis XVI, and Marie Antoinette is determined to launch her reign as the queen of France. First steps: organize a glittering Inauguration Ball and convince Louis to choose her pro-Austrian candidate as his new prime minister. But their marriage hits the rocks when Louis isn’t prepared to let his Austrian wife dabble in French politics.

Premiere Date: April 16, 2023    PBS    10pm

[JustDucky]

Not saying I like Josephine, but I respect her game.  The girl can get what she wants.  The "miscarriage" bit was a bit brutal, but quite genius.  "Catch!"

[BradandJanet]

As I watched Antoinette dance her way through Versailles, all I could think of was Cyndi Lauper's video for Girls Just Want to Have Fun. 

I'm beginning to like this show more than I expected.

[Dirtybubble]

3 hours ago, BradandJanet said:

3 hours ago, BradandJanet said:

As I watched Antoinette dance her way through Versailles, all I could think of was Cyndi Lauper's video for Girls Just Want to Have Fun. 

 

I was thinking of that same song last week when she was preparing for her trip to Paris.  Everyone fussing and gushing over her dress, hair, etc.  

Glad to see Chevalier is back.  I wonder if M.A. really did play the harpsicord or not.  It was all good fun either way. 

Another great episode with Provence and his wife 😄 God they really hate each other, and it makes for great drama!

 

[Razzberry]

Provence and Josephine probably aren't having sex either!

These crazy kids....

 

I suspect it's not exactly historical but always love an impromptu conga-line.

.

Edited April 17, 2023 by Razzberry
spelling

[Andyourlittledog2]

Look, I realize that Marie Antoinette is very young, very spoiled, and very naive.  And if I lived in the cesspool of snakes that is Versailles I would no doubt be either swinging from the chandeliers or hanging myself from them.  But I can't stand this young woman. I actually started wishing for a guillotine to do away with the lot of them.

And that hair didn't help. It must be historically accurate because no one would have that hair if it wasn't required. I keep staring at it as though I expect it to turn into Medusa's snakes.

Anyhoo, I am probably not the intended audience for this, but this episode was a pretty tough slog for me.

That said, Josephine and Provence are certainly a good match. It never occurred to me that they were faking a pregnancy. I suspect that it was intended to work on the prior King, to get appointed heir instead of Louis and then have an 'unfortunate' miscarriage. Now, it's just a problem.

Like I said, cesspool of snakes.

The only person I like or root for is poor young King Louis. The blatant disrespect is alarming.

[Razzberry]

I like Louis' spy, but not sure what his name is.

[Andyourlittledog2]

SIRE, I AM YOUR SPY. 

My favorite line of the episode.  Can you imagine living like that, with no privacy at all? An elegant prison.

[iMonrey]

Quote

I like Louis' spy, but not sure what his name is.

While he was snooping through the palace he found some hidden photos that were obviously raunchy/sexual but PBS blurred them out. I have no idea what they were of, or who had them hidden away. He muttered someone's name but I didn't catch it or recognize it.

[Razzberry]

4 hours ago, iMonrey said:

While he was snooping through the palace he found some hidden photos that were obviously raunchy/sexual but PBS blurred them out. I have no idea what they were of, or who had them hidden away. He muttered someone's name but I didn't catch it or recognize it.

I hate it when they blur stuff!  He said something about this guy Chartres

 

I found that Beaumarchais is the spy's name and had to look him up on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre_Beaumarchais.  Holy crap this guy was a multi-tasker.  Not only a spy but was covertly running arms to Washington even before the French entered the War, then became a famous playwright, writing The Marriage of Figaro and The Barber of Seville.  Interesting man.

[Dirtybubble]

4 hours ago, iMonrey said:

While he was snooping through the palace he found some hidden photos that were obviously raunchy/sexual but PBS blurred them out. I have no idea what they were of, or who had them hidden away. He muttered someone's name but I didn't catch it or recognize it.

It took me having to put on the closed captioning but the 1st 2 rooms he looked into belong to the hag sisters Adalea & Victoire.  They had the naughty letters.

The 3rd room with the naughty pictures was Chartes.  He's the kings cousin and seems to be particularly close to M.A. ☺️😉

These 2 are becoming my favorites.  Well love to hate favorites

[Doublemint]

4 hours ago, iMonrey said:

While he was snooping through the palace he found some hidden photos that were obviously raunchy/sexual but PBS blurred them out. I have no idea what they were of, or who had them hidden away. He muttered someone's name but I didn't catch it or recognize it.

They didn't have photos in the 18th century.   Must have been drawings, and yes they were blurred out.

[pasdetrois]

On 4/17/2023 at 9:27 PM, Andyourlittledog2 said:

But I can't stand this young woman. I actually started wishing for a guillotine to do away with the lot of them.

As portrayed in this series, she essentially veers from simpering to pouting. It's excruciating to watch.

I am enjoying some of the other characters, especially the young king.

Were the raunchy images paintings or drawings instead of photos? Not sure if photography was available then.

[cinsays]

On 4/17/2023 at 9:27 PM, Andyourlittledog2 said:

Look, I realize that Marie Antoinette is very young, very spoiled, and very naive.  And if I lived in the cesspool of snakes that is Versailles I would no doubt be either swinging from the chandeliers or hanging myself from them.  But I can't stand this young woman. I actually started wishing for a guillotine to do away with the lot of them.

And that hair didn't help. It must be historically accurate because no one would have that hair if it wasn't required. I keep staring at it as though I expect it to turn into Medusa's snakes.

Anyhoo, I am probably not the intended audience for this, but this episode was a pretty tough slog for me.

That said, Josephine and Provence are certainly a good match. It never occurred to me that they were faking a pregnancy. I suspect that it was intended to work on the prior King, to get appointed heir instead of Louis and then have an 'unfortunate' miscarriage. Now, it's just a problem.

Like I said, cesspool of snakes.

The only person I like or root for is poor young King Louis. The blatant disrespect is alarming.

wait, so it was a faked pregnancy? was she just peeing then before she dramatically pulled "the fetus" from under her skirts? i guess i am confused

[BradandJanet]

55 minutes ago, cinsays said:

wait, so it was a faked pregnancy? was she just peeing then before she dramatically pulled "the fetus" from under her skirts? i guess i am confused

The scene happens quickly, but it is a fake pregnancy. Josephine cuts her leg for blood to make it look like a miscarriage. Provence is in on the ruse, and Josephine gets to lie around and be waited on for a while longer. I suppose the point is to show up Louis and Antoinette, who are not reproducing. I doubt Josephine and Provence are getting together often either since they seem to hate each other. 

[cinsays]

32 minutes ago, BradandJanet said:

The scene happens quickly, but it is a fake pregnancy. Josephine cuts her leg for blood to make it look like a miscarriage. Provence is in on the ruse, and Josephine gets to lie around and be waited on for a while longer. I suppose the point is to show up Louis and Antoinette, who are not reproducing. I doubt Josephine and Provence are getting together often either since they seem to hate each other. 

ah, so that was blood running down from her

yuck and thanks

both pretty ugly creatures, so i can why there's no attraction

[AnimeMania]

S01.E06: Deus Ex Machina

Surprisingly, the person who comes to Versailles to save her troubled royal marriage is Marie Antoinette’s brother, Joseph, who realizes he will have his work cut out if he’s going to unite this estranged couple. Time is running out to save the Franco-Austrian alliance.

Premiere Date: April 23, 2023    PBS    10pm

[gingerella]

I think this was my favorite episode because I love Joseph, he's such a great character.

That's all I got!

[libgirl2]

5 hours ago, gingerella said:

I think this was my favorite episode because I love Joseph, he's such a great character.

That's all I got!

I really liked him too! 

Interesting, Marie and Louis finally really do the deed and its on the floor! 

[janeta]

I can’t get over Provence’s hair—it's *always* perfect. 

[BradandJanet]

20 minutes ago, janeta said:

I can’t get over Provence’s hair—it's *always* perfect. 

Well, it's not like he does anything that might muss it. The guy just walks around looking pissed. 

[gingerella]

6 hours ago, BradandJanet said:

6 hours ago, janeta said:

I can’t get over Provence’s hair—it's *always* perfect. 

Well, it's not like he does anything that might muss it. The guy just walks around looking pissed. 

Provence is the very definition of a pissant. Also, was the region of Provence named after this little shithead, or visa versa or coinkydink?

[Dehumidifier]

1 hour ago, gingerella said:

Provence is the very definition of a pissant. Also, was the region of Provence named after this little shithead, or visa versa or coinkydink?

I'm sure the region came first and he was assigned to it. It's a title, like Prince of Wales.

Adding, I think it means he gets the tax revenue from that region.

Edited April 24, 2023 by Dehumidifier

[iMonrey]

I liked this last one too. I really liked the brother. I also loved seeing Provence's wife kick the shit out him.

The actor who played Joseph looked so familiar to me but I couldn't place him. He was apparently in 1899 but I don't remember the character he's listed as playing. I haven't seen him in anything else he's done though so I assume that's why he looked familiar.

He really knew how to take charge of both his sister and Louis. He's the kind of character that owns every room he walks into. I hope we see more of him.

[gingerella]

13 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

He really knew how to take charge of both his sister and Louis. He's the kind of character that owns every room he walks into. I hope we see more of him.

Exactly! I don't like the way his mother emasculates his power at home, because truth be told, he has a much better grasp of what's going on politically and within his sister's marriage. He is the one who saw the power hold she had over Paris and realized that she must remain on the throne because she is basically more popular than her husband.

[libgirl2]

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

I liked this last one too. I really liked the brother. I also loved seeing Provence's wife kick the shit out him.

The actor who played Joseph looked so familiar to me but I couldn't place him. He was apparently in 1899 but I don't remember the character he's listed as playing. I haven't seen him in anything else he's done though so I assume that's why he looked familiar.

He really knew how to take charge of both his sister and Louis. He's the kind of character that owns every room he walks into. I hope we see more of him.

I remember his character! He was epileptic. 

[Dirtybubble]

On 4/24/2023 at 8:55 AM, libgirl2 said:

Interesting, Marie and Louis finally really do the deed and its on the floor!

That was steamy!  (For PBS anyway)

Count me in on the Joseph love train.  I was a bit taken back by his bluntness; he almost came across as a bit crass but when I saw him reprimand his sister for her gambling and basically ignoring her husband the King I got it.  Sometimes you gotta be blunt to get it thru their thick skulls!  

15 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I also loved seeing Provence's wife kick the shit out him.

Me too but she's a snotty little brat herself!  😄 Again all for the sake of drama!  

Glad M.A. and Lamballe made up.  Jospeh has a good read on people and he can sort out the leaches from friends.