Marie Antoinette - General Discussion

[iMonrey]

16 hours ago, libgirl2 said:

I remember his character! He was epileptic. 

Was he down in the engine room shoveling coal? Or was he a passenger? Who was he involved with? I have no recollection.

I'm almost tempted to buy the DVDs of this show . . . just to see what the hell those blurred out pictures are of!

[qtpye]

3 hours ago, Dirtybubble said:

Glad M.A. and Lamballe made up.  Jospeh has a good read on people and he can sort out the leaches from friends.

In all tellings of MA story, Yolande is always shown as the bad girlfriend and Lamballe is shown as the dumb but sweet girlfriend to MA.

I think MA loved that Yolande was so independent and did what she wanted. She had an arrangement with her husband and supposedly had a baby fathered by another man.

MA totally adored her and that caused her reputation to suffer as she showered her favorite with gifts and entitlements.

 

Here is a rather sweet portrait of MA with her Austrian family.  I think the little girl with the doll is MA.

[libgirl2]

59 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Was he down in the engine room shoveling coal? Or was he a passenger? Who was he involved with? I have no recollection.

I'm almost tempted to buy the DVDs of this show . . . just to see what the hell those blurred out pictures are of!

He was a passenger, Lucien, on his honeymoon. His wife is Clémence. He lied about his military service. There is a wiki article about her and him. 

Edited April 25, 2023 by libgirl2

[LennieBriscoe]

Alas, once I read that there will be a Season 2, I completely lost interest. Because, come on, the only reason Marie Antoinette (and Louis XVI) is remotely interesting to a 21st Century audience is that she was beheaded. 

Just me? All-righty, then. I'll be back when Mme DeFarge knits into her red scarf the name of the Widow Capet. 

Edited April 25, 2023 by LennieBriscoe

[Razzberry]

The blurry porn stash and bleeped language makes me wonder who do they think is watching this, kids?   Great episode anyway.

[Dirtybubble]

22 hours ago, LennieBriscoe said:

Alas, once I read that there will be a Season 2, I completely lost interest. Because, come on, the only reason Marie Antoinette (and Louis XVI) is remotely interesting to a 21st Century audience is that she was beheaded

No I don't think that's it entirely.  She was an interesting person on her own.  Her, the other characters, it's all around interesting!

Speaking of characters just wanted to say how much I'm enjoying Mercy ❤️ He may not have a big part but he's got M.A. best interest in minds and he can dish it out just as much as he gets from Maurepas.

 

Edited April 26, 2023 by Dirtybubble

[nx74defiant]

I'm not quite sure what it is about her, but I just don't care about Marie Antoinette in this. Louis is great. Joseph was amazing. But her - no.

[chaifan]

I finished watching on PBS streaming.  I won't give any spoilers, just some observations and questions...

Why is Lamballe at the palace?  She seems sort of stuck there, and doesn't really want to be there once her friendship with MA is on the rocks.  She's a princess, but from where, and why can't she go home?

Why do Provence and Josephine always wear the same outfits?  Or if they're not the same, they're the same colors.  They're always in green - him bright green, her a little lighter olive/goldish-green shade.  Everyone else seems to change clothes a lot except for them.

I like that by the end we've seen a good progression in Louis, both personally with MA and as King.  My one quibble is that by the end of the first season 10 years is supposed to have passed, yet no one seems to have aged a bit.

I'm surprised people can walk in/out of the King and Queen's bedchambers so easily, as well as walk up to Louis' office to eavesdrop.  Were there no guards at Versailles?  I'd think there would be guards around offices and bedchambers, in the hallways leading up to them, etc. 

Is it just me, or does Chartres look a lot like Uma Thurman?  If we dressed Uma up as a 18th century nobleman, they'd be twins. 

Along those lines, Mercy has a particular expression that makes me think of Nathan Lane.  They don't really look alike, but for some reason he makes me think of him. 

I enjoyed the series.  Sometimes there were issues with pacing, or just lack of context for certain happenings, but overall I liked it.  Amazing scenery and costumes, but that's a given for a show like this.  Looking forward to the 2nd season, but expecting that will be in a year or more. 

Edited April 27, 2023 by chaifan

[gingerella]

7 hours ago, chaifan said:

Why is Lamballe at the palace?  She seems sort of stuck there, and doesn't really want to be there once her friendship with MA is on the rocks.  She's a princess, but from where, and why can't she go home?

Why do Provence and Josephine always wear the same outfits?  Or if they're not the same, they're the same colors.  They're always in green - him bright green, her a little lighter olive/goldish-green shade.  Everyone else seems to change clothes a lot except for them.

Laballe married someone in the French royal family bit was widowed so I guess she's stuck?

Re never aging, it's the Jamie Fraser Syndrome...

[GHScorpiosRule]

1 hour ago, gingerella said:

Re never aging, it's the Jamie Fraser Syndrome...

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[Dirtybubble]

18 hours ago, chaifan said:

Why is Lamballe at the palace?  She seems sort of stuck there, and doesn't really want to be there once her friendship with MA is on the rocks.  She's a princess, but from where, and why can't she go home?

I do remember hearing she was an Italian princess who married into the family but IDK to who or what happened to her husband other than he died.  

😄 It doesn't seem like anybody can leave that gilded cage Versailles 😄 It's the same thing with Charters.  He's a cousin of somebody but not sure where came from or why he's still there either.  WTH?!

18 hours ago, chaifan said:

I'm surprised people can walk in/out of the King and Queen's bedchambers so easily, as well as walk up to Louis' office to eavesdrop.  Were there no guards at Versailles?  I'd think there would be guards around offices and bedchambers, in the hallways leading up to them, etc.

I seem to remember hearing that the French didn't have such strict guidelines as the English do about protocol.  There are rules but there's such a lack-a-daisy, party vibe at Versailles that all those rules just fly out the window.  😄

[pasdetrois]

20 hours ago, chaifan said:

Why do Provence and Josephine always wear the same outfits?  Or if they're not the same, they're the same colors. 

I thought the same of MA, who seemed to wear a lot of a blue/green fabric and also would appear in the same dress multiple times. I wanted to see her in yellow, pink and lavender. Perhaps production penny-pinching.

1 hour ago, Dirtybubble said:

It doesn't seem like anybody can leave that gilded cage Versailles

I believe the courtiers had to have permission from the king to leave court.

1 hour ago, Dirtybubble said:

I'm surprised people can walk in/out of the King and Queen's bedchambers so easily,

I watched a series that said kings had to be ill, or die, publicly. They were meant to put the best possible face on things - stoicism, grand surroundings, etc. - even as they suffered and died. I've always had the sense that royalty had minimal privacy.

Edited April 28, 2023 by pasdetrois

[lark37]

41 minutes ago, Dirtybubble said:

I do remember hearing she was an Italian princess who married into the family but IDK to who or what happened to her husband other than he died.  

😄 It doesn't seem like anybody can leave that gilded cage Versailles 😄 It's the same thing with Charters.  He's a cousin of somebody but not sure where came from or why he's still there either.  WTH?!

I seem to remember hearing that the French didn't have such strict guidelines as the English do about protocol.  There are rules but there's such a lack-a-daisy, party vibe at Versailles that all those rules just fly out the window.  😄

I believe Chartre, a cousin to Louis XVI is supposed to be this guy, Louis Philippe, Duke of Chartre and later Duke of Orlean.  Here’s some info on him—granted it’s from Wikipedia—but according to a Marie Antoinette documentary I recently watched seems to be historically accurate.  He was quite a paradox in that he ran with Antoinette’s crowd initially, then ended up turning on her and supported the French Revolution which ultimately guillotined both her and Louis.  His son eventually became the first French king of House Orlean rather than House Bourbon.  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Philippe_II,_Duke_of_Orléans

[AnimeMania]

S01.E07: The Ostrich (Bitch) "Title when aired in other countries."

Marie Antoinette is pregnant at last! But her reputation is attacked when pornographic pamphlets challenging the legitimacy of her unborn child appear at Versailles. Louis locks down the château and demands a full-blown investigation to nail the seditious traitors.

Premiere Date: April 30, 2023    PBS    10pm

[Haleth]

I loved seeing Joseph too but would he really say someone is “the bee’s knees?”  Took me out of the show. 😄

MA is such a brat. Hard to sympathize with her when she’s constantly saying “me, me, me!”, thinking only of her own wants. 

[Dirtybubble]

17 hours ago, Haleth said:

I loved seeing Joseph too but would he really say someone is “the bee’s knees?”  Took me out of the show. 😄

MA is such a brat. Hard to sympathize with her when she’s constantly saying “me, me, me!”, thinking only of her own wants. 

Yeah him saying "Slam, bam, thank you Ma'am" was a bit odd as well.  But if you can look past the vernacular then it's an entertaining show 

[Haleth]

Right!  I’d forgotten that one. 

[Doublemint]

Marie's hairdo is like the bride of Frankenstein's in this episode.  Wish Louie had banished Provance from court - send him to Provance.

[iMonrey]

I am really, really getting curious about all those blurred-out pictures we keep seeing! Damn you PBS.

It's nice to see Louis finally standing up to his brother and putting him in his place.

I was confused why Marie went right back to Yolande after last week when it seemed like she was over her.

[Doublemint]

2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I am really, really getting curious about all those blurred-out pictures we keep seeing! Damn you PBS.

It's nice to see Louis finally standing up to his brother and putting him in his place.

I was confused why Marie went right back to Yolande after last week when it seemed like she was over her.

I wondered too after Joseph told her she was related to the French diplomat (forgot the name).  He told her to  stay away from her.

[BradandJanet]

I was interrupted while watching and didn't follow carefully. Has the person spreading the rumors and prints about Marie Antoinette and her child been identified, or is the investigation ongoing? Because the baby is a female, does it matter? 

[iMonrey]

Quote

Has the person spreading the rumors and prints about Marie Antoinette and her child been identified, or is the investigation ongoing?

The one who started the "libelle" about Chartres and MA was Joséphine, Provence's wife. Yolande suspected one of them and searched their room, then took the evidence to Maurepas. Since she's his little spy and he's always been against Marie Antoinette, I wasn't sure whether he would tell Louis or not, but he apparently did. Provence threw his wife under the bus but Louis didn't believe he didn't have a hand in it too.

I don't think they have established who was responsible for the earlier notes that kept flying around.

Edited May 2, 2023 by iMonrey

[BradandJanet]

Thank you!

[Dirtybubble]

21 hours ago, iMonrey said:

It's nice to see Louis finally standing up to his brother and putting him in his place.

Yeah at the final scene seeing him standing there with a black eye was PERFECT!  Way to go Louis!  I can understand Louis not wanting to have his brother and his wife executed for treason, but he should have just banished the both of them from court.

[qtpye]

Here is what Wiki says about Lamb

On 4/27/2023 at 2:49 PM, chaifan said:

Why is Lamballe at the palace?  She seems sort of stuck there, and doesn't really want to be there once her friendship with MA is on the rocks.  She's a princess, but from where, and why can't she go home?

Here is what Wiki says:

Quote

 

On 31 January 1767, she married by proxy Louis Alexandre, Prince of Lamballe. He was a grandson of Louis XIV's legitimised son, Louis Alexandre, Count of Toulouse. Louis was the only surviving son of Louis Jean Marie de Bourbon, Duke of Penthièvre. She had arranged the marriage. During plans for her marriage she was known as Mademoiselle de Carignan in France.

In 1768, at the age of nineteen, Marie Louise became a widow. Her husband died of a venereal disease at the Château de Louveciennes. He was known to have been fairly promiscuous and had many sexual partners. His widow inherited her husband's considerable fortune, adding to her wealth. She kept her title of duchess in her own right. Her husband was buried at the Chapel of Dreux outside Paris.

 

 

In all the MA stories, she is shown to have a good girlfriend (Lamballe) and a bad girlfriend (Yolande). They are like the angel and the devil on her shoulders. I am actually glad that they are a bit more nuanced in this show.

Lamballe was considered to be very virtuous but dimwitted. She had inherited money from her husband so was actually an independent woman (rather rare in those days).

[gingerella]

On 5/1/2023 at 6:22 AM, Dirtybubble said:

On 4/30/2023 at 1:13 PM, Haleth said:

I loved seeing Joseph too but would he really say someone is “the bee’s knees?”  Took me out of the show. 😄

MA is such a brat. Hard to sympathize with her when she’s constantly saying “me, me, me!”, thinking only of her own wants. 

Expand  

Yeah him saying "Slam, bam, thank you Ma'am" was a bit odd as well.  But if you can look past the vernacular then it's an entertaining show 

If you watch the links I posted weeks back, about the making of the show, it explains those contemporary vernacular mentions peppered throughout the series.

[AnimeMania]

S01.E08: Queen of Hearts 
(Season Finale)

Louis becomes increasingly confident in his position as king as he throws himself into supporting the American War of Independence. Meanwhile, Marie Antoinette embraces life at the Petit Trianon, a château on the grounds of Versailles where she overspends on decor and becomes enamored by a familiar face — Count Axel von Fersen.

Premiere Date: May 7, 2023    PBS    10pm

[Doublemint]

Someone needs to explain the last scene.  Is the Revolutionary War in America over and everyone returned?  Does she have a new son? Is it a dream.  It went from her getting out of the carriage  and, presumably finding out her Mother has died, to her with a new baby and the entire court bowing to her and Louis with the children.

[janeta]

Yes, the new baby is a boy.  Anything more will spoil it.  (Well, as much as recorded history can be spoiled. ☺️)

[Doublemint]

10 minutes ago, janeta said:

Yes, the new baby is a boy.  Anything more will spoil it.  (Well, as much as recorded history can be spoiled. ☺️)

It just seemed strange - she exited her carriage and, apparently, was told by Lamballe in mourning dress, that her Mother had died.  Next scene inside and she has a new baby, is standing with her family, and everyone (including men who were sent to war, is bowing.  I take it, it's a few years later.  It's very obscure.  I can't be spoiled, I know the true story.    Thanks....

 

[janeta]

Yeah, I think they just fast forwarded through some stuff to wrap it up. When they shot this, they may or may not have known they would get a second season.

[iMonrey]

Quote

Someone needs to explain the last scene.  Is the Revolutionary War in America over and everyone returned?  Does she have a new son? Is it a dream.  It went from her getting out of the carriage  and, presumably finding out her Mother has died, to her with a new baby and the entire court bowing to her and Louis with the children.

It was definitely confusing, especially if you don't know the real history, which I didn't until I Googled it afterwards. But yeah, I agree with janeta, they probably fashioned this as a potential series finale. Everything at the very end just seemed rushed.

I really enjoyed the series overall. Both Louis and M.A. were well crafted characters that evolved over the episodes. The cast in general was exceptional. The only one I didn't really like was the actress playing Yolande, but maybe it was just the character.

One thing that seemed inconsistent and vague was M.A.'s relationship with both Chartres and Fersen. Did she love them? Did she have affairs with them? Did she love Louis? Was she faithful to him? It all seemed a bit ambiguous, except that she did seem to fall in love with Fersen at the end there.

[Razzberry]

It seems like they wasted time in other episodes, then had to rush this finale, but it was enjoyable.  Looking forward to next season. 

Chartres was under a 50 mile restraining order from Louis, so not sure why he was back in Versailles at the end.  I think this romantic triangle or quadrangle with him and MA is invented by the writers, but Fersen and MA were definitely having an affair and there's a lot of letters written in code between them.  I don't think Louie knew it yet, or had anything to do with him going to America. 

I was glad to see Louie and MA go from perfunctory to passionate sex. lol

 

Ben Franklin was already 70 and grey about this time, he looks pretty good here.

[BradandJanet]

The unhappy look on Josephine's face says that the baby is a boy. She and Provence have pretty much lost any claim to the throne.

The lingering shot of Marie Antoinette's extravagant flour-powdered hairdo is a sign of the trouble that she will have. 

[iMonrey]

Quote

The lingering shot of Marie Antoinette's extravagant flour-powdered hairdo is a sign of the trouble that she will have. 

The hairstylists must have had a ball on this show. I cracked up when she had a model ship on top of her hair.

[Andyourlittledog2]

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

The hairstylists must have had a ball on this show. I cracked up when she had a model ship on top of her hair.

That was relatively tame. I am glad they didn't try the live birds in a cage style. Poor birds.

The more I see of these people the more I understand the urge for a guillotine.  Can you imagine the rage of watching your babies starve to death while these fools flounced around and had parties?  What I cannot understand is the blatant disrespect those in the court seem to have no problem in showing to the king and queen. Chartes coming in the middle of the night to crow to MA that 'he' won the battle against the English fleet and felt somehow that he was entitled to sexually assault her was astonishing.

I guess I just really really don't like these people except for Louis and he is weak.

The ending was weird. I can see if they thought this was the only season at the time but it was very oddly written. At least give us a clue that time passed so it wasn't so jarring.

[Dirtybubble]

I agree with everyone, the ending felt rushed and just weird to me.  

I really do feel bad for Louis the king especially knowing how things are going to go down for him.  It seems to me that he is really trying to be a good king and from my American eyes I do love his support for the colonies 😁

M.A.'s downfall was starting to show in this episode especially.  The extravagant lifestyle, the amount of money that Louis gave M.A.--even her brother and mother seemed concerned about that.  And the fact that M.A. has her own party/ho house all to her own is just tacky.  

[AnimeMania]

Chevalier    (FILM)      June 16, 2023       Hulu

Inspired by the incredible true story of composer Joseph Bologne, Chevalier de Saint-Georges. The illegitimate son of an African slave and a French plantation owner, Bologne (Kelvin Harrison Jr. in a tour de force performance) rises to improbable heights in French society as a celebrated violinist-composer and fencer, complete with an ill-fated love affair and a falling-out with Marie Antoinette (Lucy Boynton) and her court.
Cast: Kelvin Harrison Jr., Samara Weaving, Lucy Boynton, Ronkẹ Adékoluẹjo, Marton Csokas, Alex Fitzalan and Minnie Driver.

[AnimeMania]

Marie Antoinette was released on DVD on April 18, 2023.

[lili45]

2 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

Marie Antoinette was released on DVD on April 18, 2023.

Thank you! I actually enjoyed this very much!

[AnimeMania]

Live from the Queen's court: Emilia Schüle officially declares filming for season 2 of Marie-Antoinette open. September 27, 2023

[AnimeMania]

French production crews are on strike for more pay, directly impacting the second season of Canal+’s Marie-Antoinette.