Gymnastics

[ElectricBoogaloo]

4 hours ago, Harry24 said:

So does that mean that Jade cannot do the all-around?  Has she qualified in only floor and vault?  And does that mean that there are four additional gymnasts on the team, so five American women gymnasts all together?  

Synopsis from the internet:

• For the women, there will be five gymnasts and anywhere from one to three alternates chosen based on performances at the Olympic trials. The top two finishers in the all-around competition automatically advance. Of note, Jade Carey has already earned an individual spot in the Olympics based on qualifying standards met through the International Gymnastics Federation. However, Carey can’t compete in the team competition for the U.S. unless she competes in the U.S. trials.
• For the men, four gymnasts and anywhere from one to three alternates will be chosen. In addition, the U.S. will get two female spots for the rhythmic gymnastics competition and one male spot for the trampoline competition at the Olympics, based on results at past world competitions.
• During the qualifying around of competition at the Olympics, all four athletes must take part in all four events (in the women’s competition). The top three scores will count. During the team competition, three gymnasts will compete in all four events, and all three scores will count. That means the U.S. team won’t have the luxury of naming an event specialist to the squad because she might be needed in other events if a teammate is injured.
• The size of gymnastics teams for the Tokyo Olympics was reduced from five to four, but the best nations can earn up to two additional spots for gymnasts competing as individuals. The change was approved by the International Gymnastics Federation (FIG) in May 2015, only to be revoked in May 2019 after being deemed too complicated. But the change of heart came too late to undo the process for Tokyo, so it will be in effect for the 2021 Olympics only.
• In both the men’s and women’s competitions, teams will have four gymnasts instead of five. Gymnasts competing as individuals can earn as many as two additional spots per team, whether in the all-around or on a single apparatus.
• FIG’s then-president, Bruno Grandi, wanted to emphasize all-around gymnasts over event specialists. He also wanted to narrow the competitive gap between powerhouses such as the United States, Russia, China and Japan (which could field multiple medal-contending teams) and countries without as much depth.
• The two additional spots per team can be earned based on performance at the world championships, World Cup events, and the continental championships. One slot will belong to the country; its gymnastics federation will choose the athlete. The other slot will be earned by individual athletes and is not transferable.

[peachmangosteen]

2 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Synopsis from the internet:

• For the women, there will be five gymnasts and anywhere from one to three alternates chosen based on performances at the Olympic trials.

During that event this past weekend it sounded like they were saying 4 for the team and then 2 individuals, which is 6 total. I'm confused again lol.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Just now, peachmangosteen said:

During that event this past weekend it sounded like they were saying 4 for the team and then 2 individuals, which is 6 total. I'm confused again lol.

I copied and pasted stuff from a bunch of different articles I found so it's possible that info came from an older article. I'm sure if you google, you can find the most recent stuff about whatever the stupid Olympic committee has decided the team makeup should be.

[peachmangosteen]

Doesn't seem like googling is gonna help lol. There seems to be some different info out there, I guess. 

[Jeddah]

1 hour ago, peachmangosteen said:

During that event this past weekend it sounded like they were saying 4 for the team and then 2 individuals, which is 6 total. I'm confused again lol.

It’s saying 5 can still qualify, since Jade is already qualified. There will be 6 total.

[HartofDixie]

So glad it’s going back to a 5 person team for 2024.

[Harry24]

On 5/27/2021 at 10:41 AM, peachmangosteen said:

Doesn't seem like googling is gonna help lol. There seems to be some different info out there, I guess. 

EXACTLY.  It’s not like I haven’t tried. 

And, sorry to say, I STILL don’t understand whether Jade has the opportunity to be part of the team event and all-around as well as the event finals.  I got the impression because of the broadcast team's focus on her improvement on UPBs and Beam that she has the opportunity to be considered for them too.

Is it possible that the exact rules still have yet to be determined?

[HartofDixie]

Riley will only compete bars at Nationals. Konnor McClain pulling out of Nationals/Trials to focus on worlds this fall. She just switched gyms and is now at WOGA with Valeri Liukin.

[SophiaD]

Oh, Sam.  This so hard to watch.  He has flashes of brilliance, but he is obviously out of shape and is fighting an injury.  I wish he would just retire already.

The young man in the lead, Brody Malone, was astonishing.  I hope he can keep it up.  Nice to see Akash Modi and Yul Moldauer, too.  I'm sorry that Allan Bower got hurt awhile back - he had some great moments, too.

I didn't really care for Chellsie Memmel when she was competing previously and I'm feeling kind of bummed and protective for the younger women, who haven't had the opportunity to go yet.  I mean, if she is genuinely competitive and better than they are (or a phenom, like Oksana Chusovitina), well, okay... but, meh.

Also, I like Terry and Nastia, but Tim is getting my nerves.  I'd like to see more of John Rothlisberger or someone like him.  It was a treat, however, to hear Nastia say something like, "So-and-so is doing this skill that you'll see from Simone Biles tomorrow...."

Edited June 4, 2021 by SophiaD

[andromeda331]

Yeah, Brady was really good. I liked Akash and Yul. They did real good.

Sam sucked of course. He can't ever put it together for a competition. I really hope he doesn't make it on the Olympic team. The announcers annoyed me by going on and on about Sam as if he was a really good gymnast instead one that blows it every time. 

[choclatechip45]

On 5/29/2021 at 9:13 PM, Harry24 said:

EXACTLY.  It’s not like I haven’t tried. 

And, sorry to say, I STILL don’t understand whether Jade has the opportunity to be part of the team event and all-around as well as the event finals.  I got the impression because of the broadcast team's focus on her improvement on UPBs and Beam that she has the opportunity to be considered for them too.

Is it possible that the exact rules still have yet to be determined?

The reason why it is so confusing is because USA gymnastics either is clueless (which is possible since they think she just qualified for floor) or because they don't want a PR mess on their hands. The best explanation I've found by googling is here

https://dvora.substack.com/p/can-jade-carey-make-the-four-person

I feel like the most likely outcome is that Jade will be left off the the 4 person team (unless she finishes in the top 2) and will compete in the all-round qualification her scores will count for qualification for just event finals and not count towards Team USA.

 

Edited June 4, 2021 by choclatechip45

[SophiaD]

I forgot to mention how gracious Andrea Joyce was to Brody - she asked him a question about how his rodeo background impacted his training, and he froze.  She said, oh, never mind, but you'll probably be asked about this again, so you'll probably want to work on a response.

Someone get him some media coaching, please. 

I agree with you, @andromeda331.  Just now, Tim said he thought that Sam was one of the best gymnasts in the world, even if he didn't show on the world stage, and I actually said, "Oh, come ON."  

Let us see the new younger talent, please!

[andromeda331]

28 minutes ago, SophiaD said:

I forgot to mention how gracious Andrea Joyce was to Brody - she asked him a question about how his rodeo background impacted his training, and he froze.  She said, oh, never mind, but you'll probably be asked about this again, so you'll probably want to work on a response. Someone get him some media coaching, please. 

That was nice of her.

Quote

I agree with you, @andromeda331.  Just now, Tim said he thought that Sam was one of the best gymnasts in the world, even if he didn't show on the world stage, and I actually said, "Oh, come ON."  

Yeah, that was ridiculous. Here I thought claiming Sam was "tired" at another meet and that's why he did bad comment couldn't be beaten. Nope, Tim just topped that.  

Quote

Let us see the new younger talent, please!

Yes, please! Although I'm torn when it comes to Ladies gymnastics because they usually can't compete longer then the men can. 

[Crs97]

7 hours ago, SophiaD said:

Just now, Tim said he thought that Sam was one of the best gymnasts in the world, even if he didn't show on the world stage, and I actually said, "Oh, come ON."  

By that logic, I am one of the best gymnasts in the world as long as I don’t have to perform physically any of the moves I dream up in my head. Cool.

[ItsHelloPattiagain]

Quote

Oh, Sam.  This so hard to watch.  He has flashes of brilliance, but he is obviously out of shape and is fighting an injury.  I wish he would just retire already.

It was SOO hard to watch.  After he peeled off the parallel bars and landed backwards on his knees, I got the willies watching everybody else doing any kind of release moves. I wasn't able to watch the remainder of the competition but I know it will be repeated over and over again on the Olympic channel so I will catch it then. 

[AuntieDiane6]

Quote

Sam sucked of course. He can't ever put it together for a competition. I really hope he doesn't make it on the Olympic team. The announcers annoyed me by going on and on about Sam as if he was a really good gymnast instead one that blows it every time. 

I wish the men could practice with the women's team for awhile.  They just don't seem to have the fight to stick their landings and focus on complete routines.

 

[choclatechip45]

Besides Simone, I am rooting for Jordan Chiles. I've been rooting for Morgan this whole quad and I feel so bad for her that the Olympic dream might not happen for her.

[KittenPokerCheater]

I really want Grace MacCallum to make the Olympic team.  

[Jeddah]

47 minutes ago, choclatechip45 said:

Besides Simone, I am rooting for Jordan Chiles. I've been rooting for Morgan this whole quad and I feel so bad for her that the Olympic dream might not happen for her.

Same! I think it’s not gonna happen for Morgan. I feel so bad for her. I think Jordan is going to go which I  certainly would not have predicted a year ago. She looks great.

1 minute ago, KittenPokerCheater said:

I really want Grace MacCallum to make the Olympic team.  

I agree with this too! I really like her style, and I hope she goes. They barely showed her tonight. I spent the first half of the broadcast worried something happened to Grace.

[CeeBeeGee]

3 minutes ago, KittenPokerCheater said:

I really want Grace MacCallum to make the Olympic team.  

I do too! I love her DGAF expressions and her clean lines. I have so many favorites I want to make the team. 

[choclatechip45]

21 minutes ago, Jeddah said:

Same! I think it’s not gonna happen for Morgan. I feel so bad for her. I think Jordan is going to go which I  certainly would not have predicted a year ago. She looks great.

I agree with this too! I really like her style, and I hope she goes. They barely showed her tonight. I spent the first half of the broadcast worried something happened to Grace.

Same about Jordan after a year with so much bad things happened cus of COVID it would be nice to one positive thing to happen to someone. 

Did anyone find it random how much attention they gave to Skye Blakely tonight? I was flipping back and forth, but I felt like they gave her a lot of attention. My conspiracy hat wondered if it was because she was a WOGA gymnast and NBC loves WOGA.

[peachmangosteen]

9 hours ago, CeeBeeGee said:

I have so many favorites I want to make the team. 

Ugh same! I'm gonna be so sad for so many of them when they don't make it.

[KittenPokerCheater]

I feel like the US could have 3 teams go to the olympics and they would all medal.  The US women seem to be super talented.

[Jillibean]

I think the fed is foolish if they give Jade a team spot, but it's a mess they created themselves by not paying attention because the whole organization was in disarray two years ago when this all went down, and I'm not sure they fully understood the implications of how this could play out at the time. The thing is, while Jade is likely good enough at this point to have earned a spot on the team if she were starting with a clean slate and there was no nominative berth at play, the team ultimately doesn't need Jade. That team is going to win with Simone plus any three other girls who finish in the top ten. You could pick those other three names out off a hat and win.

I think the selection of the other event specialist will be interesting. I've heard a lot about Kara Eaker, but I think she'd be a very risky pick. I haven't seen her do a clean beam routine in a long time (granted I only watch major events), and any mistake at the OIympics will keep her either out of the event finals or off the podium. 

[choclatechip45]

At this point I think the locks for the AA team are Biles, Chiles, and Lee. The fourth spot is up for grabs. The only wrench is if Lee's ankle can't hold up then I think she has the other EF spot. 

Carey has her +1 spot and I think if Riley can recover from her injury in time for trials she has the other +1 spot. 

[KittenPokerCheater]

I can't watch men's gymnastics without my shoulders hurting in solidarity.

[BlackberryJam]

16 minutes ago, KittenPokerCheater said:

I can't watch men's gymnastics without my shoulders hurting in solidarity.

This men’s competition is a bit of a mess. I get it, with the training issues, but no one is clean. 

[legaleagle53]

1 hour ago, BlackberryJam said:

This men’s competition is a bit of a mess. I get it, with the training issues, but no one is clean. 

I don't know. I just watched Sam Mikulak deliver a high-bar routine that looked almost perfect -- and you'd better believe that he stuck the landing!

[SophiaD]

OMG, someone get Shane Wiskus out of there NOW!  FOUR falls?  

I was so upset, I turned off the television.  That was insane!  (And idiotic!)

Loved Yul's parallel bars routine and Akash's crazy vault stick.  And, yes, that was a great high bar routine from Sam, but he ALWAYS does that.  He blows it, and comes roaring back.

I want an Olympic team and an Olympic team leader who doesn't dig himself a hole EVERY SINGLE TIME.

Edited June 6, 2021 by SophiaD

[blueray]

I was shocked when the guy fell four (I could have swarn it was three) times. But either way, I felt like he needed medical attention. That they didn't seem to give him. The first fall it seemed like he could have strained his nick or head, which seemed to make him dizzy. Then the second fall he was so far off the bar that it seemed to be backing that up. I feel like they needed to step up the medical attention and I get that he wanted to finish but part of me felt like they should just get him out.

[SophiaD]

I only saw him fall three times, too, @blueray.  I was going by what Terry Gannon said.  And I couldn't agree with you more.

Pride and honor and finishing a competition are all very well, but not if he ends up getting a stroke or something because of slamming his head around like that.

And now Sam finished in third, which means we'll get to hear all about his fantastic comeback at the Trials, and on and on and on.  I mean, yes, he has these incredible skills, but I have yet to see him compete at the international level where he just has a meet with no falls or huge misses that take him out of the running.  It's hard to watch.

[ombelico]

Shane fell four times - three times he came completely off the bar, but then the point where he stopped and supported himself up on the bar also counts as a fall as well. Agreed though that he probably should have been made to stop and seek medical evaluation, rather than trying to go on and finish the routine.

[SophiaD]

Ah, thank you, @ombelico.  I didn't realize that counted as a fall as well.

Poor guy.  I hope he's okay.  I wish he'd just stopped after the first fall.  

[choclatechip45]

Poor Shane.

It's refreshing to see the other guys pumped after a big routine vs Sam being pumped after a fall. 

[KittenPokerCheater]

If that kid doesn’t have a concussion and super strain on the neck I will eat my hat.  I get that olympics need athletes with heart and will do anything yadda yadda fishsticks, but this was beyond the pale.

I think the first fall hurt enough that it led to the second fall.  By the third I feel like some safety person/Ref should have stepped in and put an end of it. .  

I could barely watch any bar routines I was so upset.  I hope someone will give us an update on his condition.

But damn- was there glue on the floor?  People were STICKING their landings.

[healthnut]

Sam Mikulak is like Sasha Cohen, world class but CANNOT do it when it counts. 

[ML89]

28 minutes ago, healthnut said:

Sam Mikulak is like Sasha Cohen, world class but CANNOT do it when it counts. 

My vote is Jeremy Abbott - they even sort of look similar. I know Terry must be having flashbacks.

[peachmangosteen]

Shane fell 3 times on the parallel bars? I have no idea why I have no recollection of it lol. I need to go back and rewatch.

[blueray]

1 minute ago, peachmangosteen said:

Shane fell 3 times on the parallel bars? I have no idea why I have no recollection of it lol. I need to go back and rewatch.

The high bar. It was the second to last routine shown (at least on the footage I was watching).

[Jeddah]

2 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

Shane fell 3 times on the parallel bars? I have no idea why I have no recollection of it lol. I need to go back and rewatch.

It’s hard to watch. I really hope he’s okay.

[peachmangosteen]

Thanks for the info. Seriously, how did I miss this lol? I watched NBCSN's coverage. I did fast forward through commercials though so maybe I somehow just passed through it without realizing. 

[scarynikki12]

4 hours ago, healthnut said:

Sam Mikulak is like Sasha Cohen, world class but CANNOT do it when it counts. 

Sasha at least got it together enough to win a silver at her last Olympics. Sam's unlikely to do that.

I want him to retire, get some therapy, and try something else. Maybe his true talents are with coaching or commentary.

[SophiaD]

Quote

Sasha at least got it together enough to win a silver at her last Olympics. Sam's unlikely to do that.

Sasha also won three worlds medals and medaled at a bunch of Grand Prix events, even winning four of them.  I second the vote for Sam reminding me of Jeremy Abbott, even to the point of going from being a fan and admirer to desperately wishing he would retire.

I hope Shane is doing okay today.  Yikes. 

[legaleagle53]

And Laurie Hernandez has withdrawn from Nationals due to injury: https://olympics.nbcsports.com/2021/06/06/laurie-hernandez-gymnastics-nationals-injury/?utm_medium=social

[ElectricBoogaloo]

On 5/29/2021 at 6:13 PM, Harry24 said:

And, sorry to say, I STILL don’t understand whether Jade has the opportunity to be part of the team event and all-around as well as the event finals.  I got the impression because of the broadcast team's focus on her improvement on UPBs and Beam that she has the opportunity to be considered for them too.

Is it possible that the exact rules still have yet to be determined?

As it said above, Jade can only be part of the team event IF she competes at nationals and the Olympic trials and is selected for Team USA. If she places in the top two at Olympic trials, she is guaranteed one of the four spots in the team event. If she does not place in the top two at trials, she could still be part of the team if the USAG selection committee chooses her. If she had no interest in competing in the team event, she could have skipped nationals and Olympic trials and cruised into the Olympics with her guaranteed spot.

FIG already has some qualification stuff built into the World Cup. The top three countries in the team final are guaranteed spots in the team event at the Olympics. For this Olympics, where you finished in event finals World Cup events awarded a certain number of points. Each gymnast got to use the three highest points awarded from all the World Cup competitions. The gymnast with the highest cumulative point total was guaranteed an individual spot at the Olympics.  That's how Jade got her guaranteed spot. But if she is selected for the team, she is giving up the spot she earned through World Cup qualification.

Another qualification built into the World Cup was that the three countries with the highest cumulative point total in the all around competition earned a fifth individual spot at the Olympics. The United States earned that extra spot which is why they are allowed to name five gymnasts to the Olympic team, but that fifth spot is for an individual, not the team event, so they will be looking for someone who they think is strong enough to medal in an event final aka a specialist.

If Jade keeps her individual spot from World Cup qualification, the United States can send a total of 6 gymnasts: four on the team, whoever they select for the fifth spot they earned, and Jade. But if they put Jade on the team, she gives up that World Cup spot and then Team USA can only send a total of 5 gymnasts (the four on the team plus whoever is chosen for the fifth individual spot).

Each country is still limited to two gymnasts per event final, which I hate. I know some people found it frustrating when a country like Russia or Romania would sweep the medals, but I'd rather see the three best gymnasts win. It sucks when the top three qualifying scores are from one country and the third person can't go to finals.

[SophiaD]

Ouch, poor Chellsie.  She isn't my favorite gymnast, but I felt badly for her on bars.  That looked like it hurt.  

Simone was amazing, of course.  When is she not?  #simplythebest

If I were picking the team right now, I'd probably go with Chiles and Lee (assuming she can stay healthy), with the fourth spot up for grabs.  Riley's bar routine was fantastic, and I'd love to see her either get the fourth spot, or the second event specialist one, if she's not 100%.  

I'm also aware, though, that we barely saw anyone else's total competition.  NBC focused so much on Simone, Jordan, Jade, and Suni, I'm really not sure how anyone else looked.  Did we even see Leanne Wong's routines, or Emma Malabuyo's, or Grace McCallum's?  I mean, I get that Simone is a phenom, but it's hard to figure out what the rest of the field looks like. 

I hope the Olympics channel presents a more complete picture.  

[Jeddah]

2 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

If Jade keeps her individual spot from World Cup qualification, the United States can send a total of 6 gymnasts: four on the team, whoever they select for the fifth spot they earned, and Jade. But if they put Jade on the team, she gives up that World Cup spot and then Team USA can only send a total of 5 gymnasts (the four on the team plus whoever is chosen for the fifth individual spot).

This is why I think USAG was wrong to let Jade qualify this way. She’s looking much better as an all around gymnast now, so it is possible. There’s already so much competition to make the team. I’d hate for them to send 5 when they could have sent 6 just because Jade went that route.

If I had to pick tonight it would be Simone, Sunisa, Jordan, and Grace. Jade as an individual, and then it’s up in the air. I’d say Riley, but she’s been inconsistent her entire career.

I’m crushed for Morgan. I think this is the end of the road for her.

[choclatechip45]

USA Gym should never have let Jade go the individual route, I understand why Jade and her dad did it. I don't think she should compete at trials unless it is an exhibition. 

Poor Morgan might not even qualify for trials. I am bummed for her since if the Olympics were held last year she had a legit shot. 

I think Skinner might have a chance at that last spot if they decide they want a vaulter during the team competition. Emma making it would be one heck of a story since no one thought she had a shot. Hopefully she does well at trials and does not let the pressure get to her.

Edited June 7, 2021 by choclatechip45

[ElectricBoogaloo]

22 minutes ago, SophiaD said:

I'm also aware, though, that we barely saw anyone else's total competition.  NBC focused so much on Simone, Jordan, Jade, and Suni, I'm really not sure how anyone else looked.  Did we even see Leanne Wong's routines, or Emma Malabuyo's, or Grace McCallum's?  I mean, I get that Simone is a phenom, but it's hard to figure out what the rest of the field looks like. 

FYI - the USA Gymnastics YouTube channel has every routine posted (and without commentary). You can watch them all here.

Leanne has a gorgeous floor routine. This YT channel includes info about the scoring of each routine which is really interesting (and helpful!):

Emma's floor routine:

Grace on beam:

 

[andromeda331]

My pick would be Simone, Jordan, Suni and Jade. Maybe Riley and Grace for individual. I wish there were more spots. There's just so many really good choices. I don't want to count Leanne Wong out either. Some of the younger girls are really good too but they only have three years to wait until 2024. I don't think Morgan's going to make it which is too bad. She was really good a couple years ago and healing from injuries. Sorry about Laurie too. She was one of my favorites. 

On the mens team Brody was really good. I like Modi and Yul. Poor Shane, he kept getting up and trying again. I hope he's not injuried after all that. Please, please don't put Sam on the team. He blows it every single time. Give it to someone else.